PixelPilot wrote:

Saying it this way is fair to mention that everybody knew it was coming so why it hit this hard?
Unless we are at war there are rules and regulations that are in place. Even at war there are rules.
It's not simple just to say oh hey lets close the borders... I mean every time Trump does it he gets lib judges and dems all over him LOL.
I'm not a US voter so I just observe but anybody that blames Trump for how things are is a bit blind or biased if you ask me. You need two to tango and they don't tango in here.

Trump is not faultless. But remember, US actually closed off the country to foreign nationals that had been to China way before many countries did. Yes, that include 90% of Europe. Sadly, though, the one European country that did close its border to Chinese nationals, Italy, is suffering the most right now.

tommy1808 wrote:

JetBuddy wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

While really minute in the great scheme of things, i find conflicting information about arrested vs. invited for a stern talking to. Which may be about the same in China.

Best regards
Thomas

Not only were doctors arrested, the same thing happened to journalists as well as political figures. Some were released, and some died later on from Coronavirus. Apparantly. Defending China in all of this is the last thing that should be on the priority list for anyone outside the Chinese Communist Party.

Trying to find out what is fact or fiction has nothing to do with defending anything. Look around the forum, I am pretty much the hardcore PRC critic on this board.

Until a few weeks ago I got laughed at how harsh I would treat them if I could decide that.

Best regards
Thomas

I don't understand why anyone would defend the action of CCP anyway.

They basically hide the truth for as long as they could, but when things go WAY south in Wuhan, they simply can no longer hide the crisis.

Now that things are "better" (if you trust the Chinese number), look at what CCP is doing. Instead of reflecting on ways to NOT have another pandemic, they just point fingers and try to make up BS to shift the blame.

IMHO Trump would not double-down or triple-down the "Chinese Virus" if not for the fact that CCP start the whole BS trying to blame US Army for bringing the virus to Wuhan somehow. CCP is reaping what they sow. But nope, medias like CNN are of course using this as an opportunity to ramp up their "Trump is racist" agenda.

I'm saying all these as somebody that doesn't even like Trump for god sake!

zakuivcustom wrote:

Now that things are "better" (if you trust the Chinese number), look at what CCP is doing.

While the numbers are very likely not correct, they may not be extremely higher. You can sort of figure the number of infected by the genetic variances of the virus..so you can cheat, but probably by an order of magnitude.

However, they stopped the spread.by essentially putting millions of people in prison, even the Junta in Beijing may not be able to maintain that forever. They ease the restrictions and very likely it will flare of again. Plus of course the wildlife source is very likely still around and can cause another outbreak.

My guess is that the PRC will have a propaganda win in providing a vaccine in rather short order.
They will not have any problem to try vaccines in prison and/or concentration camps and then try to infect them. Boom, proven, safe vaccine.... we should make sure no one says "thank you", with crimes against humanity charges to follow (and since they wont hand over Xi, a perfectly valid reason to sanction the hell.out of them).

Best regards
Thomas

Now that things are "better" (if you trust the Chinese number), look at what CCP is doing. Instead of reflecting on ways to NOT have another pandemic, they just point fingers and try to make up BS to shift the blame.

Of course the official chinese numbers are BS, just like the official russian/soviet death toll of Chernobyl still stands at 31.
Also I'm not buying for a second that they have no more cases, it's just pure propaganda.

slider wrote:

https://twitter.com/YossiGestetner/status/1240524552645554176?s=20

Interesting statistical timeline here and watching how this unfolds. He's been tracking this daily, and benchmarking Italy vs US. Also germane given the massive population disparity between the two.

Here is where Italy/US were at their respective Day 15s:

Italy (March 8th) 366 deaths and NORTH LOCKDOWN.

US (March 18th) 109 deaths.

Italy's death rate was 4.96% (366 deaths out of 7,375 known cases).

The US death rate was 1.62% (150 deaths out of 9,259 known cases).

It is high possibility that the official day 15 in Italy in reality is more like day 30 while it in the start was considered not beeing covid virus.

tommy1808 wrote:

JayinKitsap wrote:

Thank you for bringing facts to the table.

facts are good, but they should be correct..

You should try it sometime.

tommy1808 wrote:

The US has not been error free but it has taken action sooner than most countries. Travel from China banned 2/2/20 one of the first, etc. Travel ban from Italy came early, same with europe, Canada, and most other countries.

well.. that is a feel good move and there isn´t much of an indication that it helps much, if at all, and no indication that it helps once the infection is in country.

If so, why has Germany, the EU and just about every other country on earth done the same?

tommy1808 wrote:

Schools in Washington State were closed 1.5 weeks ago, restaurants about 5 days ago here

Yes, some local governments and states reacted on a proper time scale, and essentially saved your collective butts. .

Yes, and that is exactly how it is supposed to work.

tommy1808 wrote:

Simple correlation between identified sick and deaths from it implies strongly that you have not identified more than 20% of the infected, which is expected as you essentially only tested people with rather clear symptoms until essentially now.

In the meantime we test people that have to go to a wedding next weekend and stuff like that, just to make sure none of the (close family only) guests can be infectious.... while, 7 i think, US States couldn´t even be bothered to restrict public gatherings in any way..... .

So if Orange Man Bad is so crazy incompetent why is the USA actually one of the best at tamping down its spread.

Cute.. the United States did jack shit in terms of testing and has no clue how many infected there are. Easy to keep the numbers low without testing...... which btw was your presidents stated reason to keep Cruise ship guests on the boat, so probably the very reason why testing had exactly zero priority.

Fever tracking doesn´t look that good: https://healthweather.us/

The Federal Government is playing politics only....... gut paid sick leave from the bill, send checks instead...... "President Trump gave me money, so i vote for him", instead of the logical way: tell employers they will cover sick leave expenses, so they don´t lay off people.... but that isn´t good campaigning.

Don´t be too surprised if you have a couple of 100k sick in a week once testings capacity keeps up with demand, you likely already have 50~60k infected, and DoD is ~30%.

best regards
Thomas

So Tommy, WTF is up with all the German lying going on these days. The entire post above is riddled with lies that anybody up on current events knows to be mistruths that I didn't bother. Every thread in this forum discussing US domestic policies has you in the middle sowing misinformation about something. Every time. German journalists have been repeatedly caught creating fact from fiction in attempts to portray the US in a negative light. German auto manufacturers lied for years about "clean diesel'. Last weekend, the German government planted a leak to a generally (I believe) well-respected newsgroup claiming Trump was trying to buy "exclusive" rights to a vaccine under development in Germany. A claim so absurd and preposterous that any 10 year old would doubt - but your government made it. What is up with all this? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/202 ... 062072002/

On that subject....
Russia deploying coronavirus disinformation to sow panic in West, EU document says https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21518F

Sounds just like you Tommy. Are you a Russian plant, paid to sow discord between our countries?

ltbewr wrote:

President Trump continues, even makes handwritten changes in his speech script to use the term 'China Virus' instead of Coronavirus. Yes, China was the source of this virus, but using the word China is deeply insulting to them and right now, diplomacy is necessary. Who knows, maybe China will have a vaccine 1st or even some partial cure, but will help other countries before us, no matter the price offered, tell us to go f' ourselves due to the offensiveness of Trump. Likely Trump calls it 'China Virus' as knows it amps up anti-China hate that is popular with his mid-west working class supporters who got him into office. I hope that he loses so badly in November and loses all his wealth that he is a more broken person than he is already.

Much more insulting is China circulating rumors saying US army brought the Coronavirus to China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/worl ... heory.html

Of course he is angry, and I am too, the hell with diplomacy when they are happy to spread conspiracy theories.

ltbewr wrote:

President Trump continues, even makes handwritten changes in his speech script to use the term 'China Virus' instead of Coronavirus. Yes, China was the source of this virus, but using the word China is deeply insulting to them and right now, diplomacy is necessary. Who knows, maybe China will have a vaccine 1st or even some partial cure, but will help other countries before us, no matter the price offered, tell us to go f' ourselves due to the offensiveness of Trump. Likely Trump calls it 'China Virus' as knows it amps up anti-China hate that is popular with his mid-west working class supporters who got him into office. I hope that he loses so badly in November and loses all his wealth that he is a more broken person than he is already.

Hundreds of thousands may die, millions lost jobs and the entire world economy came to stand still, worried about name-calling. Tough luck. Ethonocentricity and bulldozing go only so far.

If China wants to help the world, mass produce respirators and ventilators from existing medical equipment factories based on the West funded R&D. Automakers like GM, Ford, and Tesla need not figure out how to make ventilators now.

ltbewr wrote:

President Trump continues, even makes handwritten changes in his speech script to use the term 'China Virus' instead of Coronavirus. Yes, China was the source of this virus, but using the word China is deeply insulting to them and right now, diplomacy is necessary. Who knows, maybe China will have a vaccine 1st or even some partial cure, but will help other countries before us, no matter the price offered, tell us to go f' ourselves due to the offensiveness of Trump. Likely Trump calls it 'China Virus' as knows it amps up anti-China hate that is popular with his mid-west working class supporters who got him into office. I hope that he loses so badly in November and loses all his wealth that he is a more broken person than he is already.

So what? Its time to end all of this pandering to China. They were given full access to the global community and responded by lying, cheating, stealing and corrupting everyone and everything they touch. They abuse their citizens, have created the worlds largest surveillance state and are attempting to export that surveillance state globally. They are a menace to the well being of the planet. Its time to turn away from China in every aspect. Heck its time to turn away from globalism in its entirety and get back to making nations self sufficient again.

Flaps wrote:

Heck its time to turn away from globalism in its entirety and get back to making nations self sufficient again.

I can't see that happening - the developed World is too addicted to cheap stuff.

scbriml wrote:

Flaps wrote:

Heck its time to turn away from globalism in its entirety and get back to making nations self sufficient again.

I can't see that happening - the developed World is too addicted to cheap stuff.

It would have it’s benefits, but also its drawbacks. This virus has shown how we’ve had it too good for too long.

All the noise against the Orange Face from the Home Commies and abroad might not be that bad in the end at all. If you wake up the people in the United States against a foe; a virus, a country, whatever, there are no rich, nor poor. Only Americans. Never underestimate the power of the free people!

I guess it is not an offer, it is a choice. Russians don't need to apply.

California on lockdown. Maybe it’s time to close the border to Mexico as we don’t seem to have any idea how bad it is down there.

Flaps wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

President Trump continues, even makes handwritten changes in his speech script to use the term 'China Virus' instead of Coronavirus. Yes, China was the source of this virus, but using the word China is deeply insulting to them and right now, diplomacy is necessary. Who knows, maybe China will have a vaccine 1st or even some partial cure, but will help other countries before us, no matter the price offered, tell us to go f' ourselves due to the offensiveness of Trump. Likely Trump calls it 'China Virus' as knows it amps up anti-China hate that is popular with his mid-west working class supporters who got him into office. I hope that he loses so badly in November and loses all his wealth that he is a more broken person than he is already.

So what? Its time to end all of this pandering to China. They were given full access to the global community and responded by lying, cheating, stealing and corrupting everyone and everything they touch. They abuse their citizens, have created the worlds largest surveillance state and are attempting to export that surveillance state globally. They are a menace to the well being of the planet. Its time to turn away from China in every aspect. Heck its time to turn away from globalism in its entirety and get back to making nations self sufficient again.

You are speaking from fantasyland - corporate America is built on a taking over the globe model. The likes of GS, Citi, Coca-Cola, GE, IBM, P&G, Halliburton et al are *never* going to accept being limited to a domestic focus. Never ever. Next crazy idea...

last I checked companies were pandering to China to do business with 2nd largest economy in the world.
they always put politics aside to case the almighty dollar.

People in Abidjan, Ivory Coast, Africa have also started hoarding.
Government there is also suggesting people to stay home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8VG19BbQo

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

If so, why has Germany, the EU and just about every other country on earth done the same?

is "its a feel good move" too hard to parse?

tommy1808 wrote:

Schools in Washington State were closed 1.5 weeks ago, restaurants about 5 days ago here

Yes, some local governments and states reacted on a proper time scale, and essentially saved your collective butts. .

Yes, and that is exactly how it is supposed to work.

Ah... so where is your criticism of the Federal government not leaving it in the hands of local governments now. If it was "right" before, why isn´t it "wrong" today.

best regards
Thomas

What US states besides CA are under statewide shelter in place orders?

Countrywide lockdowns:
Italy
France
Spain
Belgium

Please add to this list if you know.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

What US states besides CA are under statewide shelter in place orders?

Countrywide lockdowns:
Italy
France
Spain
Belgium

Please add to this list if you know.

i´d be surprised if we can´t add Germany to that list over the weekend.

best regards
Thomas

Jouhou wrote:

Dahlgardo wrote:

Waterbomber2 wrote:

European markets opened 5% higher.
Either pumped up by governments or totally out of touch.

It's not all doom and gloom.

The possible positive impact of Chloroquine on covid19 patients could mean that we could get over self-isolation and society shutdown a lot quicker than else feared.

I'm actually becoming more optimitic about the outcome of this crisis, but it's still early days with regard to covid-19 treatment.

Good luck finding chloroquine right now.

Hydroxychloroquine And Azithrimycin are not widely available? Source?

santi319 wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Dahlgardo wrote:

It's not all doom and gloom.

The possible positive impact of Chloroquine on covid19 patients could mean that we could get over self-isolation and society shutdown a lot quicker than else feared.

I'm actually becoming more optimitic about the outcome of this crisis, but it's still early days with regard to covid-19 treatment.

Good luck finding chloroquine right now.

Hydroxychloroquine And Azithrimycin are not widely available? Source?

The promise is there, but I doubt there are a billion pills hanging around the world. The longer we wait though with studies, which likely happen, the more supply we would need. Considering it’s basis is harvested off of a specific tree bark, I also don’t know if Bayer and other pharma companies can produce enough to meet demand.

Time to ban ordinary people from wearing medical masks. It is one of the reasons there are shortages for medical personnel.
And for those that say it is a "right" to wear a mask: so is wearing a gun or taking antibiotics. But for both of them you either need a license or a recipe from your doctor. So...from now on: you wanna wear a mask walking your dog? Get it on a recipe from your doctor. Otherwise: jail time.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... 9-italy-vo

This was an inadvertent experiment. Testing and appropriate isolation works. The world needs quick accurate testing. I don't think it is unrealistic to come up with a home (or neighborhood labs) to do testing, preferably getting the costs down to $5 per. What is then important is for people and affected companies, health system, social safenets to act on the basis of those tests. Much cheaper than what we now are facing.

I follow the procedures of the first engineer/physician to control diabetes via home metering, then reacting on the results.

N757ST wrote:

The promise is there, but I doubt there are a billion pills hanging around the world. The longer we wait though with studies, which likely happen, the more supply we would need. Considering it’s basis is harvested off of a specific tree bark, I also don’t know if Bayer and other pharma companies can produce enough to meet demand.

No doubt there is a logistical problem that needs to be solved.
But the good news is, that if Chloroquine really has the potential to kill the virus in infected people, and thereby shorten the time you are contageous and sick, you could focus a lot more on isolating people with higher risks, rather than closing down the entire economy.

Dahlgardo wrote:

N757ST wrote:

The promise is there, but I doubt there are a billion pills hanging around the world. The longer we wait though with studies, which likely happen, the more supply we would need. Considering it’s basis is harvested off of a specific tree bark, I also don’t know if Bayer and other pharma companies can produce enough to meet demand.

No doubt there is a logistical problem that needs to be solved.
But the good news is, that if Chloroquine really has the potential to kill the virus in infected people, and thereby shorten the time you are contageous and sick, you could focus a lot more on isolating people with higher risks, rather than closing down the entire economy.

Oh I agree, and it’d immediately jump start the economy. That said, the pace the FDA works, we might not see a study don’t for months. I hope I’m wrong. In theory, if the other studies are correct, that this shortens the disease to 3-5 days, you could have a study done in 2-3 weeks since we know the drug is safe in the first place.

N757ST wrote:

Dahlgardo wrote:

N757ST wrote:

The promise is there, but I doubt there are a billion pills hanging around the world. The longer we wait though with studies, which likely happen, the more supply we would need. Considering it’s basis is harvested off of a specific tree bark, I also don’t know if Bayer and other pharma companies can produce enough to meet demand.

No doubt there is a logistical problem that needs to be solved.
But the good news is, that if Chloroquine really has the potential to kill the virus in infected people, and thereby shorten the time you are contageous and sick, you could focus a lot more on isolating people with higher risks, rather than closing down the entire economy.

Oh I agree, and it’d immediately jump start the economy. That said, the pace the FDA works, we might not see a study don’t for months. I hope I’m wrong. In theory, if the other studies are correct, that this shortens the disease to 3-5 days, you could have a study done in 2-3 weeks since we know the drug is safe in the first place.

Are there any studies done in say South Korea or Europe we could learn from? No need to wait for the snail-pace FDA or CDC.

Tax day for US taxpayers - Mnuchin says IRS will move tax filing deadline to July 15 as coronavirus spreads.

N757ST wrote:

Dahlgardo wrote:

N757ST wrote:

The promise is there, but I doubt there are a billion pills hanging around the world. The longer we wait though with studies, which likely happen, the more supply we would need. Considering it’s basis is harvested off of a specific tree bark, I also don’t know if Bayer and other pharma companies can produce enough to meet demand.

No doubt there is a logistical problem that needs to be solved.
But the good news is, that if Chloroquine really has the potential to kill the virus in infected people, and thereby shorten the time you are contageous and sick, you could focus a lot more on isolating people with higher risks, rather than closing down the entire economy.

Oh I agree, and it’d immediately jump start the economy. That said, the pace the FDA works, we might not see a study don’t for months. I hope I’m wrong. In theory, if the other studies are correct, that this shortens the disease to 3-5 days, you could have a study done in 2-3 weeks since we know the drug is safe in the first place.

Right cause approval of a drug that will be served to billions with intent different from it's original target can happen overnight...

PixelPilot wrote:

N757ST wrote:

Dahlgardo wrote:

No doubt there is a logistical problem that needs to be solved.
But the good news is, that if Chloroquine really has the potential to kill the virus in infected people, and thereby shorten the time you are contageous and sick, you could focus a lot more on isolating people with higher risks, rather than closing down the entire economy.

Oh I agree, and it’d immediately jump start the economy. That said, the pace the FDA works, we might not see a study don’t for months. I hope I’m wrong. In theory, if the other studies are correct, that this shortens the disease to 3-5 days, you could have a study done in 2-3 weeks since we know the drug is safe in the first place.

Right cause approval of a drug that will be served to billions with intent different from it's original target can happen overnight...

I meant I don’t see a study done for months. Hopefully they can do one quicker, because as we sit here our world economy rots, and we push ourselves closer to very prolonged damage. I hope it can be done quickly to save lives, to save our livelihoods, and to salvage our economy.... yeah I’m the jerk.

Apparently there must more evidence to support these drugs have an effect. The generic drug producers are ramping up millions of pills to be available by April, and are planning on extended production of hundreds of millions of pills per month.

N757ST wrote:

Apparently there must more evidence to support these drugs have an effect. The generic drug producers are ramping up millions of pills to be available by April, and are planning on extended production of hundreds of millions of pills per month.

Perhaps we won't hear about the good news because the MSM get more clicks by keeping the hysteria going. The more supermarket brawls the better!

The brother of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn claims the outbreak is no accident.

https://www.davidicke.com/article/56610 ... acy-theory

Oh, FFS. While we’re at it, time to start looking for Jimmy Hoffa again.

The claim is no more ridiculous than the 'official story' that people have spread it from China.

Dieuwer wrote:

Time to ban ordinary people from wearing medical masks. It is one of the reasons there are shortages for medical personnel.
And for those that say it is a "right" to wear a mask: so is wearing a gun or taking antibiotics. But for both of them you either need a license or a recipe from your doctor. So...from now on: you wanna wear a mask walking your dog? Get it on a recipe from your doctor. Otherwise: jail time.

Well not so fast.
As late as the day before yesterday, I was able to walk into different stores and purchase dozens of high quality 3M half-face and full face masks and associated filters right before the stores went into lockdown.
I bought this knowing that the masks would be useless sitting on shelves, not for my personal use for which I have plenty.

I offered the masks to a large hospital who are dealing with the Covid19 infections and whose doctor appeared on TV to talk about mask shortages, and I offered them with very little mark-up but they don't seem to be interested. The masks were out there, the medical community just expects it served to them on a silver plate and for free.

Also, I find it ridiculous that many hospitals are now asking for donations in countries with universal health care.

Don't fall prey to speculation, the medical community is acting very weird.

Governments have ordered millions of masks, most of them surgical masks that are of no use for Covid19 prevention.
Everyone should be wearing min. FFP2/N95, but in close contact you need full face masks.
I also saw Covid19 patients in hospitals with N95 masks with a valve on them which is totally pointless.

The medical community is ill-informed about the masks, is using them inappropriately, is calling out shortages while masks sit on store shelves.
In these circumstances, calling for people to not wear masks seems a call to not protect oneselves and get everyone infected.

My advice is: if you can get masks to protect yourself and your family, purchase them and use them.
By protecting yourself, you break the infection chain and indirectly sustain medical professionals.
I also repeat to do your own research and not fall prey to governments launching incoherent calls and showcasing utterly poor decision-making.

Prof. Van Ranst the Belgian government expert previously supported not closing the Belgian borders to people returning from Northern Italy.
Today he came on the news and said that Belgium should close borders immediately. Also he says that school closures were a mistake as herd immunity could not be achieved.
People are now calling him utterly incompetent.
source www.hln.be

How on earth does Germany have almost 20,000 cases and only 59 deaths while Italy has 47,000 cases and over 4,000 deaths.

Dieuwer wrote:

N757ST wrote:

Apparently there must more evidence to support these drugs have an effect. The generic drug producers are ramping up millions of pills to be available by April, and are planning on extended production of hundreds of millions of pills per month.

Perhaps we won't hear about the good news because the MSM get more clicks by keeping the hysteria going. The more supermarket brawls the better!

Except you also have things like this:
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/africa/ ... ter-donald

Keep in mind Chloroquine does have side effects. If it works, though, it definitely shorten the timeframe of the outbreak with things getting back to normal around May instead of August. It also lessen the strain on the medical system by a lot.

CarbonFibre wrote:

The brother of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn claims the outbreak is no accident.

https://www.davidicke.com/article/56610 ... acy-theory

Between Jeremy and his brother, who's crazier

EDIT:

B717fan wrote:

How on earth does Germany have almost 20,000 cases and only 59 deaths while 47,000 cases and over 4,000 deaths.

Here is one take on it...
https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/202 ... -rate.html

The death rate in Italy is actually absurdly high, though. Take South Korea, for example, there are ~8600 cases there but only 100 deaths.

On the other hand, the death rate in Germany is an extreme outliers. ~17000 but <60 deaths? While in Japan, there are around 1000 cases and 33 already die (Well, the aging society in Japan didn't help along with the fact that they're pretty much not testing anybody).

A few weeks ago some shortsighted people were saying this is just like the flu.
Over 1000 confirmed deaths in Europe today.

At this rate, we are going to reach the yearly quota of influenza in less than a month.
With further exponential growth expected, we're looking at millions of deaths this year in Europe alone.

No, this won't wash away by July/August unless we find a cure or something to slow it down significantly.

Once again, the death rate is very high in Italy, probably because there are MANY MORE INFECTED PEOPLE THEN STATISTICS SHOW!

Dieuwer wrote:

Once again, the death rate is very high in Italy, probably because there are MANY MORE INFECTED PEOPLE THEN STATISTICS SHOW!

Several weeks ago, we have documented here that the actual death rate could be somewhere around 10-20%.
Italy has been leading in testing, and is way ahead of other countries in Europe in test counts.

The death rate may actually hence be more accurate in Italy and other countries are just letting a lot of Covid19 deaths slide under influenza or other things.


Considering the numbers that we are seeing in Italy, who's been very transparent so far, China's numbers look ridiculously low, as do for instance Japan's.

The death rates in Italy and Spain are I think high due to their health care systems collapsing. They don't have any capacity to treat everyone, this might soon happen in other countries. South Korea was able to actually test a lot of people, and that's part of their success with the low number.

Waterbomber2 wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Once again, the death rate is very high in Italy, probably because there are MANY MORE INFECTED PEOPLE THEN STATISTICS SHOW!

Several weeks ago, we have documented here that the actual death rate could be somewhere around 10-20%.
Italy has been leading in testing, and is way ahead of other countries in Europe in test counts.

The death rate may actually hence be more accurate in Italy and other countries are just letting a lot of Covid19 deaths slide under influenza or other things.


Considering the numbers that we are seeing in Italy, who's been very transparent so far, China's numbers look ridiculously low, as do for instance Japan's.

Personally I use the South Korean number as the "golden standard" - aggressive testing with a large outbreak that had now slow down (and thus, the number of deaths also settle down).

Germany is also aggressively testing. Perhaps Germany is "overtesting" and thus, there's a large amount of confirm case with small number of deaths?

Waterbomber2 wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Once again, the death rate is very high in Italy, probably because there are MANY MORE INFECTED PEOPLE THEN STATISTICS SHOW!

Several weeks ago, we have documented here that the actual death rate could be somewhere around 10-20%.
Italy has been leading in testing, and is way ahead of other countries in Europe in test counts.

The death rate may actually hence be more accurate in Italy and other countries are just letting a lot of Covid19 deaths slide under influenza or other things.


Considering the numbers that we are seeing in Italy, who's been very transparent so far, China's numbers look ridiculously low, as do for instance Japan's.

Too many unknowns to make assumptions.
The only two numbers we possibly can know accurately is 1) the number of deaths, and 2) the population of a country.

Italian deaths: 4,032
Italian pop: 61 million
Rate: 0.00672%

Spanish deaths: 1,044
Spanish pop: 47 million
Rate: 0.00222%

French deaths: 450
French pop: 67 million
Rate: 0.000672%\

South Korean deaths: 94
S.K. pop: 52 million
Rate: 0.00018%

We will see what these numbers will look like a week from now, but it seems something catastrophic is going on in Italy compared to other countries.
Assuming that South Korea is not lying through their teeths, I have to commend South Korea for their excellent handling of the situation. "Just" 94" deaths is a "fantastic" on a population of 50+ million.

B717fan wrote:

How on earth does Germany have almost 20,000 cases and only 59 deaths while Italy has 47,000 cases and over 4,000 deaths.

Also bear in mind it takes 2-3 weeks for many of the ill to begin dying and for the virus to run its course. You’ll likely see a spike in Germany in several weeks’ time

It's very sad to see people roll over and give up their rights and liberty. The governor of PA even ordered all law offices closed. Now no one can even sue to stop his tyranny.

The US numbers are staggering.

Last Friday we were talking about 2,000 ill,
Today there may be over 19,000 ill.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/