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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:58 pm

A 21-year-old Canadian woman in Wuhan says she won't evacuate because she can't abandon her cat.

Image

https://www.businessinsider.com/canadia ... own-2020-2

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-v ... -million-1
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:34 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
The only two bio labs in China that handle viruses like these are in Wuhan.

One of them is exactly 277m from the "wet market" where this thing supposidly started. It's literally across the street. And with markers in the virus strain that lean towards a man made virus, make up your own mind. What is more likely? The virus self evolved in that exact wet market, or it was leaked from the lab?


No, the virus resembles what was circulating in bats years ago. Stop spreading unscientific conspiracy theories. Or start a separate thread for discussing non-factual information for the coronavirus.

Also there is nothing 277m from the market. That's pure BS. You're not even spouting the original conspiracy theory about the Wuhan Institute of virology. Which is nowheres near the market.
情報
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:53 pm

Jouhou wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The only two bio labs in China that handle viruses like these are in Wuhan.

One of them is exactly 277m from the "wet market" where this thing supposidly started. It's literally across the street. And with markers in the virus strain that lean towards a man made virus, make up your own mind. What is more likely? The virus self evolved in that exact wet market, or it was leaked from the lab?


No, the virus resembles what was circulating in bats years ago. Stop spreading unscientific conspiracy theories. Or start a separate thread for discussing non-factual information for the coronavirus.

Also there is nothing 277m from the market. That's pure BS. You're not even spouting the original conspiracy theory about the Wuhan Institute of virology. Which is nowheres near the market.


First you say I'm spreading conspiracy theories. Which I'm NOT. Then you complain that I'm not even "spouting" the original conspiracy theory.

Make up your mind and stop overreacting.

Saying that there might have been an accidental leak from a laboratory - which is a theory shared with numerous experts on the topic - is not spreading conspiracy theories. There's no conspiracy. An accident is an accident.

Wuhan Centre for Disease Control is 277 meters from the seafood market. And right next door to Union Hospital where the first doctors were infected.

"Chinese scientists believe the deadly coronavirus may have started life in a research facility just 300 yards from the Wuhan fish market".

"A new bombshell paper from the Beijing-sponsored South China University of Technology says that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control (WHCDC) could have spawned the contagion in Hubei province."


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... atory.html

And just one more thing. You'll say Daily Mail is not credible. That's fine. You'd say that about any newspaper writing this story.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:10 pm

Can we make a separate thread on the conspiracy theory? I want to see actual news on this topic and fear it's gonna become a flame war with the real news buried every 10 posts
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:20 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The only two bio labs in China that handle viruses like these are in Wuhan.

One of them is exactly 277m from the "wet market" where this thing supposidly started. It's literally across the street. And with markers in the virus strain that lean towards a man made virus, make up your own mind. What is more likely? The virus self evolved in that exact wet market, or it was leaked from the lab?


No, the virus resembles what was circulating in bats years ago. Stop spreading unscientific conspiracy theories. Or start a separate thread for discussing non-factual information for the coronavirus.

Also there is nothing 277m from the market. That's pure BS. You're not even spouting the original conspiracy theory about the Wuhan Institute of virology. Which is nowheres near the market.


First you say I'm spreading conspiracy theories. Which I'm NOT. Then you complain that I'm not even "spouting" the original conspiracy theory.

Make up your mind and stop overreacting.

Saying that there might have been an accidental leak from a laboratory - which is a theory shared with numerous experts on the topic - is not spreading conspiracy theories. There's no conspiracy. An accident is an accident.

Wuhan Centre for Disease Control is 277 meters from the seafood market. And right next door to Union Hospital where the first doctors were infected.

"Chinese scientists believe the deadly coronavirus may have started life in a research facility just 300 yards from the Wuhan fish market".

"A new bombshell paper from the Beijing-sponsored South China University of Technology says that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control (WHCDC) could have spawned the contagion in Hubei province."


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... atory.html

And just one more thing. You'll say Daily Mail is not credible. That's fine. You'd say that about any newspaper writing this story.


DM did not even source the paper they quoted with a link - it’s an abysmal article. Seriously, either provide sources from reputable scientific publications or just preface your comments that they are your own conjecture or opinion. Thanks. :boggled:
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Reinhardt
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:22 pm

The Daily Mail is not a credible source of anything. The majority of it's content is made up bs. I should know, my Mum purchased it for decades. It should along with the Sun, Express and Telegraph should go the way of the Dinosaurs.

It's because no credible newspaper or source will print that story. It even says "COULD HAVE". It's like the Express posting every week a new meteor could destroy all life on earth. Then in the small print at the end says it's due to pass twice the distance of the Earth to the Sun.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:24 pm

Please take theories on how Coronavirus started to a new thread.
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lightsaber
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:33 pm

99 more infections on Diamond Princess:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 21121.html

Total 454. I'm not sure if that includes the 14 shipped back to the USA and rested. Definitely a reason to extend quarantine, in my opinion.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
Macau casinos open Thursday:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/cor ... feb-20.amp

Decent WSJ video in link.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:53 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Late edit:
Macau casinos open Thursday:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/cor ... feb-20.amp


And one wonder how empty those casinos will be...

Macau haven't have a new confirmed case for almost 2 weeks, though. Hopefully reopening of the casinos doesn't break that streak.

Reinhardt wrote:
The Daily Mail is not a credible source of anything. The majority of it's content is made up bs. I should know, my Mum purchased it for decades. It should along with the Sun, Express and Telegraph should go the way of the Dinosaurs.


[Off topic]It's call Daily Fail for a reason...[/Off topic]

Cerecl wrote:
I think we need to separate Hubei/Wuhan and the rest of China. I think it is a given that the situation in Wuhan is horrible and there are people who should be admitted but aren't. It is clear the healthcare system there is overwhelmed. For the rest of China, I have not seen even traditional anti-CCP media claiming massive under-reporting. I think it is important to realise that in this kind of environment it is almost impossible to accurately determine the number of cases, just like the annual flu-infection count is always a guesstimate.


Even now ~80-90% of new cases every day are in Hubei/Wuhan, though. Underreporting there (Which is almost expected by now...they're literally overwhelmed) is going to affect the number quite a bit.

But is there ANY surprise that the number is insane in Hubei? No. Contain a bunch of people with the virus into a single area and you're bound to have very high infection rate. Same thing is going on onboard Diamond Princess anyway.
 
art
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:02 pm

Re: the Diamond Princess, there were 3000+ in close contact on the ship. There are new infections every day and doubtless that will continue, given that the quarantine environment is far from ideal for preventing onward transmission. How can quarantine come to an end until most on the ship have been taken off after having become infected? That, combined with countries electing to rescue their citizens to reduce numbers on the ship, is the only way 14 days with no new infections will come to pass in the near future IMO.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:52 pm

Japan has expanded testing capacity to 3800 samples per day from Feb. 18th.
This should reveal the true extent of the crisis and enable to start detection and containment and slow it down.

Japanese officials are not hiding their concerns and are not trying to downplay the situation.

A second quarantine official who worked the Diamond Princess has tested positive.

Japanese companies and employers have been asked to expand telework by the health ministry.
People with cold symptoms asked to stay home.

When a fever lasts more than 4 days or 2 days for elderly, people need to contact a phone number and will be told which hospital to visit.

Emperor's birthday celebrations cancelled.

Simulations carried out show that at least 9 persons can be infected during a peak hour train ride when standing by the doors, or at least 3 persons if seated.

Infections in Japan now over 500.

Source: nhk
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:17 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Japan has expanded testing capacity to 3800 samples per day from Feb. 18th.
This should reveal the true extent of the crisis and enable to start detection and containment and slow it down.

Japanese officials are not hiding their concerns and are not trying to downplay the situation.

A second quarantine official who worked the Diamond Princess has tested positive.

Japanese companies and employers have been asked to expand telework by the health ministry.
People with cold symptoms asked to stay home.

When a fever lasts more than 4 days or 2 days for elderly, people need to contact a phone number and will be told which hospital to visit.

Emperor's birthday celebrations cancelled.

Simulations carried out show that at least 9 persons can be infected during a peak hour train ride when standing by the doors, or at least 3 persons if seated.

Infections in Japan now over 500.

Source: nhk


Just to be clear, the infections on the Diamond Princess cruise ship are not being counted by officials (Japanese and international) as part of Japan's total so Japan stands at 62 (or something like that). I think its important to differentiate because the Diamond Princess infections were all likely contracted aboard the ship in international waters and not locally in Japanese streets.
 
smolt
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:16 pm

NYCVIE, excluding number of those on the ship is significant. But if the number has the meaning how many case do the region have to handle, the summarized number has much more sense. In fact, hundreds of cases are very threatening number, quite sufficient number to collapse the regional medical.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:22 pm

so DL AND HA are now contacting passengers to get tested, cause that couple i posted about a day ago, flew on both carriers.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 784216002/

only problem is they flew over two weeks ago.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:16 am

It looks like China's movie theaters have another month of shutdown: https://www.movieguide.org/news-article ... llion.html
This will impact Los Angeles' economy. (I live in greater Los Angeles.)

Lightsaber
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dampfnudel
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:09 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
so DL AND HA are now contacting passengers to get tested, cause that couple i posted about a day ago, flew on both carriers.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 784216002/

only problem is they flew over two weeks ago.

Not only that, but these passengers may have flown on other flights potentially exposing a lot more passengers. Take HA265 for example, it arrived around 2PM in HNL from OGG. Some of the passengers could have connected with HA50 to JFK which departs a little more than a hour later or any other flight to the mainland that was scheduled that afternoon.
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Francoflier
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:09 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51540981

Here is a study that provides a bit more context on the virus and will, hopefully help curtail the ridiculous mass hysteria surrounding it... though I doubt it'll do much. unfortunately.

Basically, the vast majority of infected people and deaths are in Hubei, the epicenter of the outbreak.
Over 80% of cases only show mild symptoms.
People over 80 are most at risk of dying from it.
In younger people, death rate are much, much lower.
Death rate outside of Hubei is very low as well, at around 0.4%, or close to the 'normal' seasonal influenza mortality rate.

I'd say the higher infection rate in Hubei is due to the fact that the virus took time to be discovered and preventive measures took even longer to be established. The healthcare system over there is also completely overwhelmed to the point where only very sick people are admitted to hospitals, which could explain the higher mortality rate there compared to everywhere else.

It would seem that the infection 'peak' is behind us, with a diminishing amount of daily cases declared since early February. Some think that as people return home from the CNY holidays, there might be another uptick in infection rates.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:39 am

Francoflier wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51540981

Here is a study that provides a bit more context on the virus and will, hopefully help curtail the ridiculous mass hysteria surrounding it... though I doubt it'll do much. unfortunately.


It won't, because even the article starts with "Health officials in China have published..."
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:43 am

Francoflier wrote:
I'd say the higher infection rate in Hubei is due to the fact that the virus took time to be discovered and preventive measures took even longer to be established.

There is a very logical way to explain this.

Lets say 1000 people are infected. They are all locked at home and as a result 100 of them will die if they get zero medical assistance. That is a 10% death rate and I dare say would be accurate.

However if you put all the serious cases in hospital and provide medication, oxygen then only around 10 people will die. That is a 1% death rate. This assumes an unlimited supply of hospital beds and oxygen.

The problem is most countries only have 1 hospital bed per 1000 people. So out of that original 1000 people where 100 of them would die, we then have to decide who that lucky person is who gets the hospital bed and oxygen supply. The other 99 then get left to die.

This is why Hubei has a high death toll. The infected vastly exceed the number of beds and this causes the death toll to go towards the 10% rate.

The death rate will be anywhere between 1% and 10% depending on how it is handled. It might be 1.5% in Norway but 8% in Vietnam.

Western countries only have one way of reducing the death toll in their countries. They must reduce the spread so that the severe cases can all be treated and nearly all cured in their hospital systems. The hospitals must not become overwhelmed.

The only way to fight this is to have every self testing themselves with thermometers and to be very aware of changes in their bodies. The infected can be split into three categories

1) Light symptoms - They stay home and self quarantine. Anyone with recent close contact must also self quarantine. People must do this willingly. The government can't track millions of people.

2) Moderate cases - Anti viral drugs and steroids get delivered to the infected home. They get check up phone calls on a regular basis. They could even create a national phone app for infected people to input heart rate, temperature and blood pressure.

3) Severe cases - These are the only ones that go to hospital. If the infected mainly need oxygen and a drip to naturally recover then it is easy to make temporary hospitals.

Closed borders, lockdowns, curfews are all ways to slow the spread to managable levels. Ideally you would want everyone to eventually catch the virus and build a basic immunity.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:05 am

In the US, we're only estimated to have about 400 suitable beds in negative pressure isolation rooms for dealing with nasty new respiratory diseases. Let's just think about that for a second. If it circulates here, we're on our own.
情報
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:26 am

Jouhou wrote:
In the US, we're only estimated to have about 400 suitable beds in negative pressure isolation rooms for dealing with nasty new respiratory diseases. Let's just think about that for a second. If it circulates here, we're on our own.


And there’s another sinister little biproduct of our shite healthcare system - why so few isolation beds in the US compared to other developed countries? Arguably because they are seldom used and highly unprofitable.
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max999
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:51 am

The New York Times reports COVID-19 is deadlier than the seasonal flu. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/worl ... virus.html

An analysis of 44,672 coronavirus patients in China whose diagnoses were confirmed by laboratory testing has found that 1,023 had died by Feb. 11. That’s a fatality rate of 2.3 percent. Figures released on a daily basis suggest the rate has further increased in recent days.

That is far higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, with which the new coronavirus has sometimes been compared.In the United States, flu fatality rates hover around 0.1 percent.
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:08 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
In the US, we're only estimated to have about 400 suitable beds in negative pressure isolation rooms for dealing with nasty new respiratory diseases. Let's just think about that for a second. If it circulates here, we're on our own.


And there’s another sinister little biproduct of our shite healthcare system - why so few isolation beds in the US compared to other developed countries? Arguably because they are seldom used and highly unprofitable.


And we only know that because we actually got organized enough after the West African Ebola outbreak to make that assessment and set up designated hospitals to handle cases of new and dangerous infectious diseases...

They can be used with measles and pertussis patients during their down time, to avoid spreading those highly infectious diseases to newborns, those with compromised immune systems, vaccine non-responders, unvaccinated people, etc. There's a lot of vulnerable people in a hospital setting.

max999 wrote:
The New York Times reports COVID-19 is deadlier than the seasonal flu. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/worl ... virus.html

An analysis of 44,672 coronavirus patients in China whose diagnoses were confirmed by laboratory testing has found that 1,023 had died by Feb. 11. That’s a fatality rate of 2.3 percent. Figures released on a daily basis suggest the rate has further increased in recent days.

That is far higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, with which the new coronavirus has sometimes been compared.In the United States, flu fatality rates hover around 0.1 percent.


The NYT points out the obvious, while everyone else was already freaked out.
情報
 
art
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:12 am

Dates refer to data release dates:

New cases of confirmed infections

Feb 04 3,235
Feb 05 3,887
Feb 06 3,694
Feb 07 3,143
Feb 08 3,399
Feb 09 2,656
Feb 10 3,062
Feb 11 2,478
Feb 12 2,015

New cases of confirmed and diagnosed infections

Feb 13 15,152
Feb 14 05,090

New cases of confirmed and suspected infections

Feb 15 04,918
Feb 16 03,927
Feb 17 03,611
Feb 18 03,318

Change in last 2 days -8%

People who have been identified as having had close contact with infected patients

Feb 04 221,015
Feb 05 252,154
Feb 06 282,813
Feb 07 314,028
Feb 08 345,498
Feb 09 371,904
Feb 10 399,487
Feb 11 428,438
Feb 12 451,462
Feb 13 471,531
Feb 14 493,067
Feb 15 513,183
Feb 16 529,418
Feb 17 546,016
Feb 18 560,901

Change in last 2 days +3%

http://en.nhc.gov.cn/2020-02/18/c_76645.htm
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:13 am

You don't need to stick patients in a negative pressure isolation chamber for this virus for Pete's sake. Let's stop the Hollywood catastrophe movies scenarios for a second and get back to the real World here...

It remains a virus which, while contagious, is not showing signs of spreading out of control in any of the nations it got into outside of China. Infections within families seems relatively high, which is understandable as the propagation method is mostly through oral projections when coughing and touching your mucous membranes with your hands after touching contaminated surfaces. Healthcare professionals are obviously also more at risk. Otherwise, exceedingly few people around those who are sick get infected.
There are simple ways to largely reduce transmission, mostly basic hygiene habits like washing hands regularly, cleaning surfaces that are frequently touched and avoiding touching your mouth and nose with your hands. Do not share cutlery or phones (which are HUGE microbial hot spots).
The laws of gravity also apply to viruses. They do not fly or float in thin air.

Let's not forget that the virus took time to be identified. There were weeks after the initial outbreak (probably in December) during which the people of Wuhan were free to roam the planet as they pleased, and they very much did as the Chinese New Year holidays came along. Yet international propagation remains extremely low.

Let's stick to the data and keep in mind their relative significance...
The US estimates that over 22000 Americans die of the consequences of seasonal influenza every year, Europe estimates that anywhere between 15000 to 70000 die of it there.

This is not a freaking Zombie apocalypse. It's a slightly worse flu virus... if that.

Let's wash our hands, cough and sneeze in tissues and get on with our lives without trying to dramatize something that oughtn't be.
The greatest impact of this virus will be the economic chaos that will ensue the media/social media fueled craze it created. We humans are easily scared, not very smart in large groups and are not good at keeping things in rational perspective.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
max999
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:16 am

Jouhou wrote:
max999 wrote:
The New York Times reports COVID-19 is deadlier than the seasonal flu. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/worl ... virus.html

An analysis of 44,672 coronavirus patients in China whose diagnoses were confirmed by laboratory testing has found that 1,023 had died by Feb. 11. That’s a fatality rate of 2.3 percent. Figures released on a daily basis suggest the rate has further increased in recent days.

That is far higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, with which the new coronavirus has sometimes been compared.In the United States, flu fatality rates hover around 0.1 percent.


The NYT points out the obvious, while everyone else was already freaked out.



The higher mortality rate needs to be pointed out because some people on a.net incorrectly believe COVID-19 is not so bad and it's just like the seasonal flu.
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:20 am

Francoflier wrote:
You don't need to stick patients in a negative pressure isolation chamber for this virus for Pete's sake. Let's stop the Hollywood catastrophe movies scenarios for a second and get back to the real World here...

It remains a virus which, while contagious, is not showing signs of spreading out of control in any of the nations it got into outside of China. Infections within families seems relatively high, which is understandable as the propagation method is mostly through oral projections when coughing and touching your mucous membranes with your hands after touching contaminated surfaces. Healthcare professionals are obviously also more at risk. Otherwise, exceedingly few people around those who are sick get infected.
There are simple ways to largely reduce transmission, mostly basic hygiene habits like washing hands regularly, cleaning surfaces that are frequently touched and avoiding touching your mouth and nose with your hands. Do not share cutlery or phones (which are HUGE microbial hot spots).
The laws of gravity also apply to viruses. They do not fly or float in thin air.

Let's not forget that the virus took time to be identified. There were weeks after the initial outbreak (probably in December) during which the people of Wuhan were free to roam the planet as they pleased, and they very much did as the Chinese New Year holidays came along. Yet international propagation remains extremely low.

Let's stick to the data and keep in mind their relative significance...
The US estimates that over 22000 Americans die of the consequences of seasonal influenza every year, Europe estimates that anywhere between 15000 to 70000 die of it there.

This is not a freaking Zombie apocalypse. It's a slightly worse flu virus... if that.

Let's wash our hands, cough and sneeze in tissues and get on with our lives without trying to dramatize something that oughtn't be.
The greatest impact of this virus will be the economic chaos that will ensue the media/social media fueled craze it created. We humans are easily scared, not very smart in large groups and are not good at keeping things in rational perspective.


Dude, you sound like the people in this thread 2 weeks ago. It's a dangerous virus that needs to be contained if at all possible because it is both more contagious than the flu and deadlier. If we just let it spread it would far outpace the flu statistics. Quickly. And those that recover are still sick for a whole month. It's economically devastating even when it doesn't kill, and even if people didn't react to it just because it takes so many people out of commission for so long. The flu lasts about 5 days, if you're healthy you'll have a residual cough for a few days more. If you aren't healthy, you'll have a residual cough for up to a couple of weeks. It doesn't compare, but I do know how hard it is to take a whole week off from work abruptly because of the flu.
情報
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:20 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
You don't need to stick patients in a negative pressure isolation chamber for this virus for Pete's sake. Let's stop the Hollywood catastrophe movies scenarios for a second and get back to the real World here...

It remains a virus which, while contagious, is not showing signs of spreading out of control in any of the nations it got into outside of China. Infections within families seems relatively high, which is understandable as the propagation method is mostly through oral projections when coughing and touching your mucous membranes with your hands after touching contaminated surfaces. Healthcare professionals are obviously also more at risk. Otherwise, exceedingly few people around those who are sick get infected.
There are simple ways to largely reduce transmission, mostly basic hygiene habits like washing hands regularly, cleaning surfaces that are frequently touched and avoiding touching your mouth and nose with your hands. Do not share cutlery or phones (which are HUGE microbial hot spots).
The laws of gravity also apply to viruses. They do not fly or float in thin air.

Let's not forget that the virus took time to be identified. There were weeks after the initial outbreak (probably in December) during which the people of Wuhan were free to roam the planet as they pleased, and they very much did as the Chinese New Year holidays came along. Yet international propagation remains extremely low.

Let's stick to the data and keep in mind their relative significance...
The US estimates that over 22000 Americans die of the consequences of seasonal influenza every year, Europe estimates that anywhere between 15000 to 70000 die of it there.

This is not a freaking Zombie apocalypse. It's a slightly worse flu virus... if that.

Let's wash our hands, cough and sneeze in tissues and get on with our lives without trying to dramatize something that oughtn't be.
The greatest impact of this virus will be the economic chaos that will ensue the media/social media fueled craze it created. We humans are easily scared, not very smart in large groups and are not good at keeping things in rational perspective.


Dude, you sound like the people in this thread 2 weeks ago. It's a dangerous virus that needs to be contained if at all possible because it is both more contagious than the flu and deadlier. If we just let it spread it would far outpace the flu statistics. Quickly. And those that recover are still sick for a whole month. It's economically devastating even when it doesn't kill, and even if people didn't react to it just because it takes so many people out of commission for so long. The flu lasts about 5 days, if you're healthy you'll have a residual cough for a few days more. If you aren't healthy, you'll have a residual cough for up to a couple of weeks. It doesn't compare, but I do know how hard it is to take a whole week off from work abruptly because of the flu.

Negative pressure rooms are required to stop the spread within the hospital. If this breaks out to where those rooms aren't enough, the hospitals will fill up. When the hospitals fill up, that means other patients must avoid the hospitals.

We have 955,768 hospital beds in the USA. The era of 1 per thousand is over. If this breaks out, we will be in worse shape faster than China.

I hope everyone has food and water.

Lightsaber
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lightsaber
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:59 pm

Yesterday evening, after my normal shift, my employer issued a travel advisory. Travel to Hong Kong and China, of all types, banned. Travel to Singapore requires two VPs to approve (that is new...).
Employees who worked or transfered planes in China, Hong Kong, or Singapore might be asked to work from a virtual location.

:boggled:

But, its just a flu, with a what 20x fatality rate...

Lightsaber
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Yesterday evening, after my normal shift, my employer issued a travel advisory. Travel to Hong Kong and China, of all types, banned. Travel to Singapore requires two VPs to approve (that is new...).
Employees who worked or transfered planes in China, Hong Kong, or Singapore might be asked to work from a virtual location.


I wonder whether Japan will be added to this list soon :banghead:

Meanwhile, Macau be like "I'm still exempted!", except if you're base in US you pretty much have to go through HKG to get to Macau :duck:

lightsaber wrote:
Negative pressure rooms are required to stop the spread within the hospital. If this breaks out to where those rooms aren't enough, the hospitals will fill up. When the hospitals fill up, that means other patients must avoid the hospitals.

We have 955,768 hospital beds in the USA. The era of 1 per thousand is over. If this breaks out, we will be in worse shape faster than China.

I hope everyone has food and water.

Lightsaber


US is lucky this time around that there is no community spread (so far) as the confirmed cases are isolated quick enough.

And quite frankly, you cannot use nationwide statistics for hospital bed. For example, it doesn't matter that you got hospital capacity in Fresno or Bakersfield if (touch wood) an outbreak occur at, let say, Greater LA. It's not like you can just transfer those sick patients to other cities. Of course, rural areas, while having a lower chance of an outbreak, can get overwhelmed even easier as the medical system there is way overwhelmed as-is (I speak from personal experience...as-is waiting list for basically anything medical related here in Southern Indiana is months).
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:44 pm

Francoflier wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51540981

Here is a study that provides a bit more context on the virus and will, hopefully help curtail the ridiculous mass hysteria surrounding it... though I doubt it'll do much. unfortunately.

Basically, the vast majority of infected people and deaths are in Hubei, the epicenter of the outbreak.
Over 80% of cases only show mild symptoms.
People over 80 are most at risk of dying from it.
In younger people, death rate are much, much lower.
Death rate outside of Hubei is very low as well, at around 0.4%, or close to the 'normal' seasonal influenza mortality rate.

I'd say the higher infection rate in Hubei is due to the fact that the virus took time to be discovered and preventive measures took even longer to be established. The healthcare system over there is also completely overwhelmed to the point where only very sick people are admitted to hospitals, which could explain the higher mortality rate there compared to everywhere else.

It would seem that the infection 'peak' is behind us, with a diminishing amount of daily cases declared since early February. Some think that as people return home from the CNY holidays, there might be another uptick in infection rates.


This is about how I read it. There are about zero people around the world who were not in China for a least a few days who have died from this virus. I suspect that the armed forces of the US (and many other countries) could set up field hospitals where the seriously ill could receive IVs and oxygen, and medications as seem to work. Legally enforced self-quarantine laws exist and I believe are in effect now for some people in the US, and these can be extended as needed. There is some evidence that the disease may have emerged in November gives even more weight that it has had upwards of two months to spread throughout the world without thus far causing wide spread epidemic.
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NYCVIE
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Yesterday evening, after my normal shift, my employer issued a travel advisory. Travel to Hong Kong and China, of all types, banned. Travel to Singapore requires two VPs to approve (that is new...).
Employees who worked or transfered planes in China, Hong Kong, or Singapore might be asked to work from a virtual location.

:boggled:

But, its just a flu, with a what 20x fatality rate...

Lightsaber


Can you source your claim that this is 20x more fatal than the flu? The only source I'm seeing that supports this is CCN Markets which doesn't even source the claim in its article.

The way some of you speak about this like Doomsday is coming is almost as if you're looking forward to such a scenario. The hysteria is crazy. I don't think it's strange that your employer would ban or advise against non-essential travel to regions most affected by the virus...
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:42 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Can you source your claim that this is 20x more fatal than the flu? The only source I'm seeing that supports this is CCN Markets which doesn't even source the claim in its article.

The way some of you speak about this like Doomsday is coming is almost as if you're looking forward to such a scenario. The hysteria is crazy. I don't think it's strange that your employer would ban or advise against non-essential travel to regions most affected by the virus...


It's 23 x more fatal than the flu, according to NYT:

max999 wrote:
The New York Times reports COVID-19 is deadlier than the seasonal flu. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/worl ... virus.html

An analysis of 44,672 coronavirus patients in China whose diagnoses were confirmed by laboratory testing has found that 1,023 had died by Feb. 11. That’s a fatality rate of 2.3 percent. Figures released on a daily basis suggest the rate has further increased in recent days.

That is far higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, with which the new coronavirus has sometimes been compared.In the United States, flu fatality rates hover around 0.1 percent.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:00 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Can you source your claim that this is 20x more fatal than the flu? The only source I'm seeing that supports this is CCN Markets which doesn't even source the claim in its article.

The way some of you speak about this like Doomsday is coming is almost as if you're looking forward to such a scenario. The hysteria is crazy. I don't think it's strange that your employer would ban or advise against non-essential travel to regions most affected by the virus...


It's 23 x more fatal than the flu, according to NYT:

max999 wrote:
The New York Times reports COVID-19 is deadlier than the seasonal flu. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/worl ... virus.html

An analysis of 44,672 coronavirus patients in China whose diagnoses were confirmed by laboratory testing has found that 1,023 had died by Feb. 11. That’s a fatality rate of 2.3 percent. Figures released on a daily basis suggest the rate has further increased in recent days.

That is far higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, with which the new coronavirus has sometimes been compared.In the United States, flu fatality rates hover around 0.1 percent.



This is a comparison of coronavirus deaths in China to flu deaths in the US only... The global fatality rate of coronavirus deaths is not 23 or 20 times higher than the global fatality rate of the flu.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:05 pm

lightsaber wrote:
We have 955,768 hospital beds in the USA. The era of 1 per thousand is over. If this breaks out, we will be in worse shape faster than China.

I hope everyone has food and water.

Lightsaber


This is why I am against so quickly brining infected people back here.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
art
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:11 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Yesterday evening, after my normal shift, my employer issued a travel advisory. Travel to Hong Kong and China, of all types, banned. Travel to Singapore requires two VPs to approve (that is new...).
Employees who worked or transfered planes in China, Hong Kong, or Singapore might be asked to work from a virtual location.

:boggled:

But, its just a flu, with a what 20x fatality rate...

Lightsaber


Can you source your claim that this is 20x more fatal than the flu? The only source I'm seeing that supports this is CCN Markets which doesn't even source the claim in its article.

The way some of you speak about this like Doomsday is coming is almost as if you're looking forward to such a scenario. The hysteria is crazy. I don't think it's strange that your employer would ban or advise against non-essential travel to regions most affected by the virus...


I do not think there has been a hysterical reaction to this virus.

1 It is a new virus for homo sapiens
2 Data collection and dissemination for nearly all cases in the world is controlled by a state with no track record of candour
3 This does not appear to be a shortlived illness -victims need perhaps a month to recover
4 3 above means it can be very disruptive economically

Just for those reasons, I think it would be very unwise of governments to fail to view measures to control this virus as an urgent necessity. Taking draconian measures after there are thousands of cases in an area is really just damage limitation.
Last edited by art on Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
We have 955,768 hospital beds in the USA. The era of 1 per thousand is over. If this breaks out, we will be in worse shape faster than China.

I hope everyone has food and water.

Lightsaber


This is why I am against so quickly brining infected people back here.


As long as people are quarantine/contained, they post absolutely no risk to public at large.

Uncontained potential virus carriers are dangerous and is the thing that would cause community outbreaks that is seen in HK, Singapore, and Japan. Contained potential virus carrier post no risk in general except maybe to the medical professionals - but there are protocol there that can control the spread. The number of evacuees itself is not large enough to totally overwhelm the entire medical system of US.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 pm

art wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Yesterday evening, after my normal shift, my employer issued a travel advisory. Travel to Hong Kong and China, of all types, banned. Travel to Singapore requires two VPs to approve (that is new...).
Employees who worked or transfered planes in China, Hong Kong, or Singapore might be asked to work from a virtual location.

:boggled:

But, its just a flu, with a what 20x fatality rate...

Lightsaber


Can you source your claim that this is 20x more fatal than the flu? The only source I'm seeing that supports this is CCN Markets which doesn't even source the claim in its article.

The way some of you speak about this like Doomsday is coming is almost as if you're looking forward to such a scenario. The hysteria is crazy. I don't think it's strange that your employer would ban or advise against non-essential travel to regions most affected by the virus...


I do not think there has been a hysterical reaction to this virus.

1 It is a new virus for homo sapiens
2 Data collection and dissemination for nearly all cases in the world is controlled by a state with no track record of candour
3 This does not appear to be a shortlived illness -victims need perhaps a month to recover
4 3 above means it can be very disruptive economically

Just for those reasons, I think it would be very unwise of governments to fail to view measures to control this virus as an urgent necessity. Taking draconian measures after there are thousands of cases in an area is really just damage limitation.

2 Its mortality is not established


I agree that this is an extremely serious situation - that being said there's no reason for increased hysteria such as misleading statistics that this kills people at 20x the rate of the flu. As of now, the vast majority of the cases are in China and the majority of the cases there are in the Hubei Province. Some people are even mentioning a global cease to aviation due to the virus - that's hysteria. For the number of cases to equal even the flu we would need to see the current rate of around 3,000 cases per day (which is decreasing) for the next couple of months.

So yes, these are extremely serious developments but we don't yet have a reason to go into our underground bunkers. Look back to ebola hysteria that was largely propagated by fear - it's rational but I think we should fight the urge to think of the worst case scenario when we don't have reason to believe we're getting there.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
We have 955,768 hospital beds in the USA. The era of 1 per thousand is over. If this breaks out, we will be in worse shape faster than China.

We have 1 hospital bed for every 344 people in the US today. And hospitals are growing like weeds around the country.

Also, considering our hygiene standards in the US are a wee bit better than in large swaths of China, I'm going to go out on a limb and say we aren't staring at the end of humanity right now.

At least not for this specific reason.
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:49 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
art wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

Can you source your claim that this is 20x more fatal than the flu? The only source I'm seeing that supports this is CCN Markets which doesn't even source the claim in its article.

The way some of you speak about this like Doomsday is coming is almost as if you're looking forward to such a scenario. The hysteria is crazy. I don't think it's strange that your employer would ban or advise against non-essential travel to regions most affected by the virus...


I do not think there has been a hysterical reaction to this virus.

1 It is a new virus for homo sapiens
2 Data collection and dissemination for nearly all cases in the world is controlled by a state with no track record of candour
3 This does not appear to be a shortlived illness -victims need perhaps a month to recover
4 3 above means it can be very disruptive economically

Just for those reasons, I think it would be very unwise of governments to fail to view measures to control this virus as an urgent necessity. Taking draconian measures after there are thousands of cases in an area is really just damage limitation.

2 Its mortality is not established


I agree that this is an extremely serious situation - that being said there's no reason for increased hysteria such as misleading statistics that this kills people at 20x the rate of the flu. As of now, the vast majority of the cases are in China and the majority of the cases there are in the Hubei Province. Some people are even mentioning a global cease to aviation due to the virus - that's hysteria. For the number of cases to equal even the flu we would need to see the current rate of around 3,000 cases per day (which is decreasing) for the next couple of months.

So yes, these are extremely serious developments but we don't yet have a reason to go into our underground bunkers. Look back to ebola hysteria that was largely propagated by fear - it's rational but I think we should fight the urge to think of the worst case scenario when we don't have reason to believe we're getting there.


Ebola does not spread nearly as easily, since I've watched infectious disease outbreaks over the years I never was concerned about Ebola spreading here, although my heart went out to the people dying in africa.

This is concerning. The only thing that is really hysteria in my eyes is the fear of everyone east Asian in descent we are starting to see from the public. As far as "we need to be prepared for a potential pandemic in case this can't be contained" goes, that's intelligent.

Also, it seems like the case fatality rate might be higher without supportive treatment at a hospital- likely why it's higher in Hubei where their hospitals got overwhelmed.




Also, I would like to mention at this time that there's still a lot of people in the US who don't wash their hands when they go to the bathroom. While our improved sanitation in the U.S. makes fecal transmission less likely it can still be spread that way by non-handwashers.

If you're one of those people and you're reading this, WASH YOUR DAMN HANDS. It's not hard. And your co-workers notice and gossip about it behind your back and people don't want you touching their stuff. Please just wash.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:00 pm

Not sure if this is posted yet...

I just came across this:
http://timesofisrael.com/israel-bans-fo ... rus-fears/

Israel thus become the first country that to block entry for foreigners from a country/region outside of China, HK, Macau, and Taiwan, with Singapore and Thailand getting on the list (Taiwan is still off, though :)).

The Thailand part is probably the most consequential - given the number of Israelis that vacation there.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:26 pm

The virus is very much uncontained in Japan.
An emergency task force officer who became infected on the DP working as a quarantine officer, travelled by Shinkansen back to Wakayama and seems to be the origin carrier for a total of 12 infections over there.
Now Wakayama is planning to test about 500 people for the virus, including patients at a hospital where doctors and nurses have been infected.

Tokyo recorded 3 additional infections, of whom 1 relative of a doctor.
Yokohama announced the infection of a taxi driver who has started showing symptoms 2 weeks ago and been sent home with cold medication by doctors on 2 occasions and is now fighting for his life, unable to speak and on artificial respiration. The amateurism of the Japanese medical professionals is becoming very apparent.
Until now, no apparent infection trail can be found for this patient.

The Japanese government is not hiding its concern and is starting to prep.

At this rate I see countries moving big to close the doors on Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong.
Some Korean hospitals have started denying patients with a recent travel history to Japan.
This would have huge consequences on JL/NH but travel demand for Europe-Japan would also be heavily impacted.


People in Hong Kong and Singapore have started stocking up. Toilet paper and other basic necessities such as rice and noodles are flying off the shelves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHNER686Ngk
 
meecrob
Posts: 126
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:57 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
You don't need to stick patients in a negative pressure isolation chamber for this virus for Pete's sake. Let's stop the Hollywood catastrophe movies scenarios for a second and get back to the real World here...

It remains a virus which, while contagious, is not showing signs of spreading out of control in any of the nations it got into outside of China. Infections within families seems relatively high, which is understandable as the propagation method is mostly through oral projections when coughing and touching your mucous membranes with your hands after touching contaminated surfaces. Healthcare professionals are obviously also more at risk. Otherwise, exceedingly few people around those who are sick get infected.
There are simple ways to largely reduce transmission, mostly basic hygiene habits like washing hands regularly, cleaning surfaces that are frequently touched and avoiding touching your mouth and nose with your hands. Do not share cutlery or phones (which are HUGE microbial hot spots).
The laws of gravity also apply to viruses. They do not fly or float in thin air.

Let's not forget that the virus took time to be identified. There were weeks after the initial outbreak (probably in December) during which the people of Wuhan were free to roam the planet as they pleased, and they very much did as the Chinese New Year holidays came along. Yet international propagation remains extremely low.

Let's stick to the data and keep in mind their relative significance...
The US estimates that over 22000 Americans die of the consequences of seasonal influenza every year, Europe estimates that anywhere between 15000 to 70000 die of it there.

This is not a freaking Zombie apocalypse. It's a slightly worse flu virus... if that.

Let's wash our hands, cough and sneeze in tissues and get on with our lives without trying to dramatize something that oughtn't be.
The greatest impact of this virus will be the economic chaos that will ensue the media/social media fueled craze it created. We humans are easily scared, not very smart in large groups and are not good at keeping things in rational perspective.


Dude, you sound like the people in this thread 2 weeks ago. It's a dangerous virus that needs to be contained if at all possible because it is both more contagious than the flu and deadlier. If we just let it spread it would far outpace the flu statistics. Quickly. And those that recover are still sick for a whole month. It's economically devastating even when it doesn't kill, and even if people didn't react to it just because it takes so many people out of commission for so long. The flu lasts about 5 days, if you're healthy you'll have a residual cough for a few days more. If you aren't healthy, you'll have a residual cough for up to a couple of weeks. It doesn't compare, but I do know how hard it is to take a whole week off from work abruptly because of the flu.


Why is it that you get to decide how others should think about this virus? We are all here to discuss something, but if we don't agree with you, we are talked down to. Your attitude is why the members of this board with insight such as those in healthcare, or even one who lived through SARS firsthand in HK or Toronto have stopped commenting. Everyone here is just trying to have a civil discussion, and it is being strangled by the fact that you have to drink Jouhou's brand of kool-aid or be told we don't know what we are talking about. Nobody is saying to "just let it spread" nobody is denying this virus is deadly and nobody is denying that we can do better in our efforts containing it. People are just observing hysteria and calling it out.
 
winginit
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:08 pm

lightsaber wrote:
It looks like China's movie theaters have another month of shutdown: https://www.movieguide.org/news-article ... llion.html
This will impact Los Angeles' economy. (I live in greater Los Angeles.)

Lightsaber


That seems a bit of a broad stroke correlation no? Isn't there an official quote whereby only something to the tune of 40 foreign films can be shown in China every year? In the grand scheme of things, Chinese box offices being shuttered isn't going to move the dial on the broader LA economy especially since an externality of this is inevitably going to be that Chinese who are stuck at home are... wait for it... renting and watching a whole mountain of movies and television.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 985
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:56 pm

Cambodia screwed up big time by letting Westerdam passengers off the ship after merely taking temperatures and letting them fill in questionnaires.

:banghead:

The Cambodian prime minister came in close contact with passengers who got off the ship.

An American woman tested positive 5 days after getting off the ship and while attempting to enter Malaysia.
This could mean that hundreds of unknowing carriers may be spreading the virus across the globe as we speak.


A Passenger Tested Positive for Coronavirus After Hundreds Exited a U.S. Cruise Ship, Sparking Fears the Outbreak Could Further Spread Worldwide

The elderly cruise passenger who tested positive for coronavirus after disembarking from a U.S. cruise ship in Cambodia has raised the specter that other passengers now dispersed around the world could be infected too.

Currently, hundreds of passengers from Holland America Line’s Westerdam are being held back in Cambodia, where the ship was allowed to dock last week after being denied entry to multiple ports following rumors of a possible coronavirus on board—despite assurances from the cruise line that there were no signs of the virus, officially named COVID-19, in any passengers.

After the shipped docked in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, on Feb. 13, twenty lab tests for the virus that had been conducted on board came back negative and passengers were cleared to begin disembarking after they were screened for symptoms of the virus. They were greeted with handshakes by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, who invited them to tour Cambodia. Some left for a hotel in the capital, Phnom Penh, while others remained on the ship. Hundreds more boarded flights for destinations around the world—either returning home or moving on to other vacation destinations.


https://time.com/5785109/coronavirus-co ... uise-ship/

Japan and other countries who denied the ship should have let the ship dock and should have tested everyone.
They are also responsible for this.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:17 am

Singapore national development minister: "As many left Wuhan before the city was locked down for destinations worldwide, undetected spreading may be occurring, we may be at the early stages of a global pandemic."

Singapore is enforcing strict home quarantine regimes that when breached can result in severe punishment.

Source: CNN
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:22 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
The virus is very much uncontained in Japan.
An emergency task force officer who became infected on the DP working as a quarantine officer, travelled by Shinkansen back to Wakayama and seems to be the origin carrier for a total of 12 infections over there.
Now Wakayama is planning to test about 500 people for the virus, including patients at a hospital where doctors and nurses have been infected.

Tokyo recorded 3 additional infections, of whom 1 relative of a doctor.
Yokohama announced the infection of a taxi driver who has started showing symptoms 2 weeks ago and been sent home with cold medication by doctors on 2 occasions and is now fighting for his life, unable to speak and on artificial respiration. The amateurism of the Japanese medical professionals is becoming very apparent.
Until now, no apparent infection trail can be found for this patient.

The Japanese government is not hiding its concern and is starting to prep.

At this rate I see countries moving big to close the doors on Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong.
Some Korean hospitals have started denying patients with a recent travel history to Japan.
This would have huge consequences on JL/NH but travel demand for Europe-Japan would also be heavily impacted.


People in Hong Kong and Singapore have started stocking up. Toilet paper and other basic necessities such as rice and noodles are flying off the shelves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHNER686Ngk


I can't find anything on the three additional infections in the news. Were these in the last couple days?
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NYCVIE
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:44 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Cambodia screwed up big time by letting Westerdam passengers off the ship after merely taking temperatures and letting them fill in questionnaires.

:banghead:

The Cambodian prime minister came in close contact with passengers who got off the ship.

An American woman tested positive 5 days after getting off the ship and while attempting to enter Malaysia.
This could mean that hundreds of unknowing carriers may be spreading the virus across the globe as we speak.


A Passenger Tested Positive for Coronavirus After Hundreds Exited a U.S. Cruise Ship, Sparking Fears the Outbreak Could Further Spread Worldwide

The elderly cruise passenger who tested positive for coronavirus after disembarking from a U.S. cruise ship in Cambodia has raised the specter that other passengers now dispersed around the world could be infected too.

Currently, hundreds of passengers from Holland America Line’s Westerdam are being held back in Cambodia, where the ship was allowed to dock last week after being denied entry to multiple ports following rumors of a possible coronavirus on board—despite assurances from the cruise line that there were no signs of the virus, officially named COVID-19, in any passengers.

After the shipped docked in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, on Feb. 13, twenty lab tests for the virus that had been conducted on board came back negative and passengers were cleared to begin disembarking after they were screened for symptoms of the virus. They were greeted with handshakes by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, who invited them to tour Cambodia. Some left for a hotel in the capital, Phnom Penh, while others remained on the ship. Hundreds more boarded flights for destinations around the world—either returning home or moving on to other vacation destinations.


https://time.com/5785109/coronavirus-co ... uise-ship/

Japan and other countries who denied the ship should have let the ship dock and should have tested everyone.
They are also responsible for this.


Well considering that Japan now has to deal with 500+ cases from the Diamond Princess including health workers infected by passengers, it makes sense from a government's point of view why they wouldn't want to deal with that.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:45 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Singapore national development minister: "As many left Wuhan before the city was locked down for destinations worldwide, undetected spreading may be occurring, we may be at the early stages of a global pandemic."

Singapore is enforcing strict home quarantine regimes that when breached can result in severe punishment.

Source: CNN

Link?
Where are you seeing that? I just searched both the quote you provided and the "Singapore national development minister" and nothing pops up. And the Singapore thing is only for those that are returning to Singapore from mainland China.

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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:53 am

1989worstyear wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
The virus is very much uncontained in Japan.
An emergency task force officer who became infected on the DP working as a quarantine officer, travelled by Shinkansen back to Wakayama and seems to be the origin carrier for a total of 12 infections over there.
Now Wakayama is planning to test about 500 people for the virus, including patients at a hospital where doctors and nurses have been infected.

Tokyo recorded 3 additional infections, of whom 1 relative of a doctor.
Yokohama announced the infection of a taxi driver who has started showing symptoms 2 weeks ago and been sent home with cold medication by doctors on 2 occasions and is now fighting for his life, unable to speak and on artificial respiration. The amateurism of the Japanese medical professionals is becoming very apparent.
Until now, no apparent infection trail can be found for this patient.

The Japanese government is not hiding its concern and is starting to prep.

At this rate I see countries moving big to close the doors on Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong.
Some Korean hospitals have started denying patients with a recent travel history to Japan.
This would have huge consequences on JL/NH but travel demand for Europe-Japan would also be heavily impacted.


People in Hong Kong and Singapore have started stocking up. Toilet paper and other basic necessities such as rice and noodles are flying off the shelves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHNER686Ngk


I can't find anything on the three additional infections in the news. Were these in the last couple days?


Me neither. Waterbomber2, please post sources to these additional cases. I can't see anything about the three cases nor anything about a doctor being the origin of 12 cases. What I did find is that there are a total of 12 cases in Western Japan. Could you also post sources for the testing of 500 people in Wakayama?

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