sonicruiser
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Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:53 pm

Man I miss the days when US politics was a quiet affair that no one cared about. I long for normalcy to return to DC so finally people can live in peace again. At this point I would rather have state run TV than the nonstop outrage and fake scandals blaring on cable news.
 
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seb146
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:07 pm

People did care about politics. It was dry and boring. Facts were reported as facts instead of sensationalist and one sided exploitation pulp journalism that we have now. I remember watching the national news back when we only had 12 channels and the Fairness Doctrine was still being enforced. Everyone gave a little, got a little and the whole country was fine. Now, it is all or nothing and everything is war and fight and lies.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:10 pm

It is very simple. Have open primaries. It will get rid of the fringe lunatics on both sides.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:48 pm

I hope a political reset in this country can happen before our way of life is permanently ruined.

As for TV, many don't watch it anyways. I haven't for years, when I do see cable news the presentation nauseates me. I stick with mostly newswire services online like Reuters for news. They usually abstain from "editorializing" and just present facts, or post a verbatim press release.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:13 pm

I listen to NPR but, my husband has to listen to Rachel every night, drives me crazy. I can't tolerate fox news for more than a minute. lol


back in the day, I used to turn onto CNN when Ted Turner owned it. Got updated in 15 minutes then turned it off. I also used to watch the news at 10 pm on ABC, CBS or NBC. now I don't watch at all

the internet changed everything, and now i don't believe half of what i've read. I subscribe to NYT only.
 
BN747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:13 pm

Jouhou:I hope a political reset in this country can happen before our way of life is permanently ruined.

No, no we can't.

I'm afraid we have passed the Rubicon there...

The trump supporter crowd is exactly like fervent wrestling fans. Most people figure out the act in the ring is an 'act'..not these people, they think it's all legit..they will go to the mat arguing with anyone over whose better.

Watch any trump Rally video, wait for him to say something completely vacuous - and watch the crowd roar!

They eat stupidity like most people eat sandwiches.

You come back from that. It's a 3-Ring circus that never ends..and the fans are there for life.

I for one, cannot and will not place any faith in that circle of Americans...they have proven beyond a doubt that they will forsake the Nation for virtually anything appealing to their version of the world. And the trump version of the world, as expressed by him, is nothing but LIES, money and Putin. They like what he likes..end of story.

We have lost that part of America...and all this time I thought these were the dyed in Red, white & blue Americans...trump showed us just how flimsy their loyalty to country is.

Hell, after trump...some guy looking like the pics of jesus will claim to be him and they will jall kill each other to sign up for that crock. But it's all game over for the good ol' days.

Unless, of course if we see trump hauled off to the Looney Bin and Jared & Ivanka on corruption and other charges and a series of minor Civil War skirmishes...maybe we can survive.

But the trump loyalists are indeed damaged Americans, they can't be rehabilitated in any shape of form.

'The South will Rise Again' crowd, has a new dance partner, the trumpettes...another Anti-American group.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:37 pm

BN747 wrote:
Jouhou:I hope a political reset in this country can happen before our way of life is permanently ruined.

No, no we can't.

I'm afraid we have passed the Rubicon there...

The trump supporter crowd is exactly like fervent wrestling fans. Most people figure out the act in the ring is an 'act'..not these people, they think it's all legit..they will go to the mat arguing with anyone over whose better.

Watch any trump Rally video, wait for him to say something completely vacuous - and watch the crowd roar!

They eat stupidity like most people eat sandwiches.

You come back from that. It's a 3-Ring circus that never ends..and the fans are there for life.

I for one, cannot and will not place any faith in that circle of Americans...they have proven beyond a doubt that they will forsake the Nation for virtually anything appealing to their version of the world. And the trump version of the world, as expressed by him, is nothing but LIES, money and Putin. They like what he likes..end of story.

We have lost that part of America...and all this time I thought these were the dyed in Red, white & blue Americans...trump showed us just how flimsy their loyalty to country is.

Hell, after trump...some guy looking like the pics of jesus will claim to be him and they will jall kill each other to sign up for that crock. But it's all game over for the good ol' days.

Unless, of course if we see trump hauled off to the Looney Bin and Jared & Ivanka on corruption and other charges and a series of minor Civil War skirmishes...maybe we can survive.

But the trump loyalists are indeed damaged Americans, they can't be rehabilitated in any shape of form.

'The South will Rise Again' crowd, has a new dance partner, the trumpettes...another Anti-American group.


BN747


Its all Trump right?

These are just a few, who said this:

They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/ ... ctions2008

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”
Hilary Clinton

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinto ... ranscript/

Omar, a Somali refugee, came under fire from Democrats and Republicans who viewed the comment about a want for "Benjamins" being the reason why Israel is so solidly supported by the U.S. government as an anti-Semitic trope involving Jews and money.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... ts-n969946

Those aren't Trump comments, lets stop pretending everything is only coming from one side. Who is dividing America?
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
bhill
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:53 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Jouhou:I hope a political reset in this country can happen before our way of life is permanently ruined.

No, no we can't.

I'm afraid we have passed the Rubicon there...

The trump supporter crowd is exactly like fervent wrestling fans. Most people figure out the act in the ring is an 'act'..not these people, they think it's all legit..they will go to the mat arguing with anyone over whose better.

Watch any trump Rally video, wait for him to say something completely vacuous - and watch the crowd roar!

They eat stupidity like most people eat sandwiches.

You come back from that. It's a 3-Ring circus that never ends..and the fans are there for life.

I for one, cannot and will not place any faith in that circle of Americans...they have proven beyond a doubt that they will forsake the Nation for virtually anything appealing to their version of the world. And the trump version of the world, as expressed by him, is nothing but LIES, money and Putin. They like what he likes..end of story.

We have lost that part of America...and all this time I thought these were the dyed in Red, white & blue Americans...trump showed us just how flimsy their loyalty to country is.

Hell, after trump...some guy looking like the pics of jesus will claim to be him and they will jall kill each other to sign up for that crock. But it's all game over for the good ol' days.

Unless, of course if we see trump hauled off to the Looney Bin and Jared & Ivanka on corruption and other charges and a series of minor Civil War skirmishes...maybe we can survive.

But the trump loyalists are indeed damaged Americans, they can't be rehabilitated in any shape of form.

'The South will Rise Again' crowd, has a new dance partner, the trumpettes...another Anti-American group.


BN747


Its all Trump right?

These are just a few, who said this:

They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/ ... ctions2008

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”
Hilary Clinton

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinto ... ranscript/

Omar, a Somali refugee, came under fire from Democrats and Republicans who viewed the comment about a want for "Benjamins" being the reason why Israel is so solidly supported by the U.S. government as an anti-Semitic trope involving Jews and money.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... ts-n969946

Those aren't Trump comments, lets stop pretending everything is only coming from one side. Who is dividing America?


Right after I shoot you walking down 5th avenue for not letting me grab your pussy...

...and I will get off scott free.....
Carpe Pices
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:58 pm

I am pleased that people are getting engaged in politics. I consider today an improvement versus probably the lowest point in American history since WWII, which was the year 2002-2003. That was the year when I was ashamed to hold a US passport.

There is a lot of vulgarity and corruption in politics recently, but it has not been violent. It is people discussing their different opinions. Sometimes angrily. But few people are being killed. Our system is one where people are supposed to discuss different views and then vote on it. We are doing just that.
 
BN747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:36 pm

bhill wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Jouhou:I hope a political reset in this country can happen before our way of life is permanently ruined.

No, no we can't.

I'm afraid we have passed the Rubicon there...

The trump supporter crowd is exactly like fervent wrestling fans. Most people figure out the act in the ring is an 'act'..not these people, they think it's all legit..they will go to the mat arguing with anyone over whose better.

Watch any trump Rally video, wait for him to say something completely vacuous - and watch the crowd roar!

They eat stupidity like most people eat sandwiches.

You come back from that. It's a 3-Ring circus that never ends..and the fans are there for life.

I for one, cannot and will not place any faith in that circle of Americans...they have proven beyond a doubt that they will forsake the Nation for virtually anything appealing to their version of the world. And the trump version of the world, as expressed by him, is nothing but LIES, money and Putin. They like what he likes..end of story.

We have lost that part of America...and all this time I thought these were the dyed in Red, white & blue Americans...trump showed us just how flimsy their loyalty to country is.

Hell, after trump...some guy looking like the pics of jesus will claim to be him and they will jall kill each other to sign up for that crock. But it's all game over for the good ol' days.

Unless, of course if we see trump hauled off to the Looney Bin and Jared & Ivanka on corruption and other charges and a series of minor Civil War skirmishes...maybe we can survive.

But the trump loyalists are indeed damaged Americans, they can't be rehabilitated in any shape of form.

'The South will Rise Again' crowd, has a new dance partner, the trumpettes...another Anti-American group.


BN747


Its all Trump right?

These are just a few, who said this:

They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/ ... ctions2008

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”
Hilary Clinton

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinto ... ranscript/

Omar, a Somali refugee, came under fire from Democrats and Republicans who viewed the comment about a want for "Benjamins" being the reason why Israel is so solidly supported by the U.S. government as an anti-Semitic trope involving Jews and money.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... ts-n969946

Those aren't Trump comments, lets stop pretending everything is only coming from one side. Who is dividing America?


Right after I shoot you walking down 5th avenue for not letting me grab your pussy...

...and I will get off scott free.....


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

...yeah, same war cry as on guns ...except as stated above, more of that! That's what we need more human depravity - works every time!

BN747
.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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EstherLouise
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:39 pm

I worry about the Trumpsters who are convinced that a Deep State exists ever coming to terms with the fact that they were brainwashed.
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BN747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:07 am

EstherLouise wrote:
I worry about the Trumpsters who are convinced that a Deep State exists ever coming to terms with the fact that they were brainwashed.


Nope, just like children told not to do something, at their first chance you know what they're up to...it explains why they like trump. He's exactly that model and more childlike antics than any grown adult male should ever have. It's why they identify with him.

We told ourselves there will never be anyone worse than Bush...look at what happen. There was...

And now, if they don't get their way...they will return with a far worse choice - the Steve King/Ted Nugent ticket.

...and you silly Liberals, thought they'd 'learn their lesson'...you just don't get them.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
LabQuest
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:16 am

It never was "normal."

Just different.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:22 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:


“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”
Hilary Clinton

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinto ... ranscript/


Agree that this statement is woefully inaccurate.

It is far more than half.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:23 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”
Hilary Clinton

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinto ... ranscript/


Agree that this statement is woefully inaccurate.

It is far more than half.


I put the link for you to filling if you wish.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
NIKV69
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:53 am

casinterest wrote:
It is very simple. Have open primaries. It will get rid of the fringe lunatics on both sides.


I think a third party would do that better.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:25 am

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is very simple. Have open primaries. It will get rid of the fringe lunatics on both sides.


I think a third party would do that better.


I am not sure . Maybe a wedge middle? I still think that open primaries would allow for more parties, and more points of view. you could run on a party platform, but at the end of the day, you are working towards the bell curve middle instead of the tailing edges hoping to scrape closer to the edge of the middle.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:42 am

BN747 wrote:


'The South will Rise Again' crowd, has a new dance partner, the trumpettes...another Anti-American group.


BN747


You can't have normalcy if the fringe keeps doing things like this toxic race fueled carless nonsense comment. Not to mention the media has latched on to this fearmongering and hate filled name calling designed to scare people. Again a third party of more level headed thinking people can produce better candidates.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
BN747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:12 am

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:


'The South will Rise Again' crowd, has a new dance partner, the trumpettes...another Anti-American group.


BN747


You can't have normalcy if the fringe keeps doing things like this toxic race fueled carless nonsense comment. Not to mention the media has latched on to this fearmongering and hate filled name calling designed to scare people. Again a third party of more level headed thinking people can produce better candidates.


Yeah well when one party *hint*hint* embraces a leader that has shown himself to be racists and misogynistic and preferring like minds of appointees..you sort can't overlook that kinda of thing.

His history on these matters are now permanently sealed in documented and recorded history, nothing you can do will ever change that.

Your inability and unwillingness to recognize, condemn these facts tells people your far more susceptible to support more like him or worse....because you 'don't see it'.

When you have an entire party marching in step with that kinda of divisive leadership...there's no coming back from that, I don't care how much you 'act' you wish to return to norms, to you people what is going on now, reckless, endless lying, unaccountability, paling around with thug governments and assisting them is your new normal and preferred style of governance - that will never go away from you. You guys made it this toxic (name any administration in history that has sunk the nation this low...go ahead, I'll wait). It's yours to keep it up or correct it - thing is 'nothing needs correcting if you ask any trump rally or any ardent supporters like yourself.

Look no further than your own arguments - "you guys just hate him and have been out to get him"...which indicates that all this divisive conduct executed by him alone, never happened.

In your minds, he's a uniter, not a divider. Yeah, he's united America with Russia, N.Korea, Saudi Arabia and left our true allies behind.

That's leadership NO True American can get behind...but please continue telling yourself that isn't happening..I'll continue to not take you seriously.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:43 am

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is very simple. Have open primaries. It will get rid of the fringe lunatics on both sides.


I think a third party would do that better.


I am not sure . Maybe a wedge middle? I still think that open primaries would allow for more parties, and more points of view. you could run on a party platform, but at the end of the day, you are working towards the bell curve middle instead of the tailing edges hoping to scrape closer to the edge of the middle.


More parties = more confusion.

We are living in an age where actual facts are under siege, fake news is a real thing delivered deliberately with the sole intent to confuse. Swimming in those waters requires less competition because by our very nature - we hate trying to sort 'politics' out. Most people see politics as a system they did not design and hold about as much enthusiasim in it's inner workings as they are in that of the IRS.

In other words, it'll turn off more people than it does now. Making transparency less transparent.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
NIKV69
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Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:57 am

BN747 wrote:
More parties = more confusion.

We are living in an age where actual facts are under siege, fake news is a real thing delivered deliberately with the sole intent to confuse. Swimming in those waters requires less competition because by our very nature - we hate trying to sort 'politics' out. Most people see politics as a system they did not design and hold about as much enthusiasim in it's inner workings as they are in that of the IRS.

In other words, it'll turn off more people than it does now. Making transparency less transparent.

BN747


Confusion? I will tell you who is confused. It's the voter who wants drugs legal, doesn't want to repeal abortion, wants to own a gun and be fairly taxed. Right now neither party wants them. A third party would bring a heck of a lot more clarity than this fringe monster zealotry we have now.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:59 am

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
More parties = more confusion.

We are living in an age where actual facts are under siege, fake news is a real thing delivered deliberately with the sole intent to confuse. Swimming in those waters requires less competition because by our very nature - we hate trying to sort 'politics' out. Most people see politics as a system they did not design and hold about as much enthusiasim in it's inner workings as they are in that of the IRS.

In other words, it'll turn off more people than it does now. Making transparency less transparent.

BN747


Confusion? I will tell you who is confused. It's the voter who wants drugs legal, doesn't want to repeal abortion, wants to own a gun and be fairly taxed. Right now neither party wants them. A third party would bring a heck of a lot more clarity than this fringe monster zealotry we have now.


I like the sound of that party - throw in ‘military for homeland defense only’ and I’m in.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Ken777
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:59 am

We have a small peek at a possible improvement with Mitt Romney actually looking at voting for witnesses in Trump's Impeachment trial. Mitt isn't up for re-election this year but he may be a guiding light for other moderates. There needs to be a vote to bring in witnesses as well as a demand for documents covered by the Production of Documents that Trump refused during impeachment hearings.

Also important is the need for some moderate Republicans to go vote Guilty. All that is needed is 51 votes. We already know that the Senate will not remove him from office - there are too few with the moral courage to vote for that.

Then the GOP Leadership needs to be removed from their position of power. McConnell is as much an embarrassment as Trump is and need to be kicked out by the voters. There are others, but the main issue sis to move the Senate to the Democrats. I believe that there is a core group of moderate Democrats that will hold the wide eyed liberals in check and will work with moderate Republicans, which would be a major step returning to a normal America.
 
Nick614
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:05 am

Life is better without watching the "news" and staying off social media, these places aren't reality.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:06 am

Ken777 wrote:
We have a small peek at a possible improvement with Mitt Romney actually looking at voting for witnesses in Trump's Impeachment trial. Mitt isn't up for re-election this year but he may be a guiding light for other moderates. There needs to be a vote to bring in witnesses as well as a demand for documents covered by the Production of Documents that Trump refused during impeachment hearings.

Also important is the need for some moderate Republicans to go vote Guilty. All that is needed is 51 votes. We already know that the Senate will not remove him from office - there are too few with the moral courage to vote for that.

Then the GOP Leadership needs to be removed from their position of power. McConnell is as much an embarrassment as Trump is and need to be kicked out by the voters. There are others, but the main issue sis to move the Senate to the Democrats. I believe that there is a core group of moderate Democrats that will hold the wide eyed liberals in check and will work with moderate Republicans, which would be a major step returning to a normal America.


There will be more guilty votes than you expect - these are politicians, remember?

45 can serve four more years at most, some of these senators are mid-career still. They are going to swear an oath on TV to be fair arbiters - imagine the optics if they hastily vote innocent, knowing all the evidence that’s inevitably coming out later. Even the drop from Lev Parnas today is a doozy...lots more to come.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:03 am

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
More parties = more confusion.

We are living in an age where actual facts are under siege, fake news is a real thing delivered deliberately with the sole intent to confuse. Swimming in those waters requires less competition because by our very nature - we hate trying to sort 'politics' out. Most people see politics as a system they did not design and hold about as much enthusiasim in it's inner workings as they are in that of the IRS.

In other words, it'll turn off more people than it does now. Making transparency less transparent.

BN747


Confusion? I will tell you who is confused. It's the voter who wants drugs legal, doesn't want to repeal abortion, wants to own a gun and be fairly taxed. Right now neither party wants them. A third party would bring a heck of a lot more clarity than this fringe monster zealotry we have now.


Yes Confusion.

I know that you think EVERYONE is as intellectual as you, has all the patience as you and all the logic as you.

But in reality, they are far from it. MOST Americans like things fast, the microwave mentality, they want everything - FAST!

They no patience to read 2 pages of the Mueller Report, 3 different parties coming at them with 3 different approaches is the same as 10 different parties...people are not willing to put in the time to sort out all those parties and their positions. Simply way too much turf to spread layer upon layer after layer of bogus, fake, half-assed political stories to even think about weeding though it all.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:47 am

BN747 wrote:
More parties = more confusion.


And more extremism.

One of the more silly things about the idea of a -credible- Third Party is the notion that it would somehow gravitate towards a rational, centrist grounding. It will do no such thing. Ever.

I do not understand why it is so hard for Americans to understand this, but there is no market for ground already sufficiently covered either the Democratic Party or the GOP.

Every attempt to start one of these things panders either to extremism, or rank stupidity. At the moment, it is easier to do this to the GOP (trump is effectively not a Republican). But the DNC could easily be in the same position in the next decade.

The fad of populism is itself, for all rational purposes, a Third Party.

The more we officialize this in any way, the sharper the extremes get, as with smaller parties, base becomes important, and purity testing is taken to a level even today's standards would wilt at.

Last cycle, we had the usual spoilers. And while they appeared to be nicer options than Hillary or trump, a closer look revealed... there were all batshit crazy. I can harbor zero doubt that Jill Stein would have been a worse president than 45, if not by much.

We see this in other countries, where multiple parties control smaller swaths of gov't. While this can be helpful for caucus building, you also get things like Bibi from time to time. We need to ask ourselves if that is a risk we really want to take. . .

FWIW/TD;LR...

We have events that function as Third Parties now. Primaries. And we see how crazy most of that is. Imagine if we gave most of those cranks real legitimacy...

Aaron747 wrote:
There will be more guilty votes than you expect - these are politicians, remember?

45 can serve four more years at most, some of these senators are mid-career still. They are going to swear an oath on TV to be fair arbiters - imagine the optics if they hastily vote innocent, knowing all the evidence that’s inevitably coming out later. Even the drop from Lev Parnas today is a doozy...lots more to come.


Indeed. . .

I have been saying this for months, but the GOP have a tremendous amount of risk this cycle. Nearly twice as many seats as the Democratic Party. And many of those in very purple states. They will lose ground, and the Senate no matter what happens. It is down to a dozen or so who would have their ability to remain bolstered greatly if they helped clean trump out of here. There is no doubt that this is being weighed heavily as we speak.

NIKV69 wrote:
Confusion? I will tell you who is confused. It's the voter who wants drugs legal, doesn't want to repeal abortion, wants to own a gun and be fairly taxed. Right now neither party wants them. A third party would bring a heck of a lot more clarity than this fringe monster zealotry we have now.


False. In every way possible. Single issue parties cannot gain or sustain ground. Multi-issue platforms will have no issue but to appease extreme bases. While weakening moderate cores of established parties. Who ever came up with this should have a lobster thrown at them...
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
Redd
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:30 am

BN747 wrote:

More parties = more confusion.



BN747


While you're at it, just make one party, one leader. What can go wrong?
 
BN747
Posts: 7319
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:27 pm

Redd wrote:
BN747 wrote:

More parties = more confusion.



BN747


While you're at it, just make one party, one leader. What can go wrong?


Clearly you are in the group 'not paying attention' to anything...

...if Pelosi/DEMs had not swept in 2018..that is Exactly where we would be today and forever.
There'd be No Ukraine Inv. No Accountability No checks on the Executive No Impeachment ..just tons of flounting of laws and far more undoing of institutional norms to the point that 2020 would be virtually already decided.

Almost been there, almost did that...keep that one for yourself.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:32 pm

BN747 wrote:
Redd wrote:
BN747 wrote:

More parties = more confusion.



BN747


While you're at it, just make one party, one leader. What can go wrong?


Clearly you are in the group 'not paying attention' to anything...

...if Pelosi/DEMs had not swept in 2018..that is Exactly where we would be today and forever.
There'd be No Ukraine Inv. No Accountability No checks on the Executive No Impeachment ..just tons of flounting of laws and far more undoing of institutional norms to the point that 2020 would be virtually already decided.

Almost been there, almost did that...keep that one for yourself.

BN747


Really, what happened 2008-2010?

Democrat controlled house.
Democrat controlled senate. With 60 votes.
Democrat controlled White house.

This might happen in 2020 but on the Republican side ex 60 senate votes.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
BN747
Posts: 7319
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:46 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Redd wrote:

While you're at it, just make one party, one leader. What can go wrong?


Clearly you are in the group 'not paying attention' to anything...

...if Pelosi/DEMs had not swept in 2018..that is Exactly where we would be today and forever.
There'd be No Ukraine Inv. No Accountability No checks on the Executive No Impeachment ..just tons of flounting of laws and far more undoing of institutional norms to the point that 2020 would be virtually already decided.

Almost been there, almost did that...keep that one for yourself.

BN747


Really, what happened 2008-2010?

Democrat controlled house.
Democrat controlled senate. With 60 votes.
Democrat controlled White house.

This might happen in 2020 but on the Republican side ex 60 senate votes.


Learn some political history instead of cut n' pasting 'ideas & notions' you've heard from radio loud mouth.

You were alive in 2008-2010 (although not using this name on A.net) ..I'm sure you have some deeper insight to what 2010 midterms were...it was exactly as 'someone' told you...because I sure you weren't paying attention either.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:49 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Clearly you are in the group 'not paying attention' to anything...

...if Pelosi/DEMs had not swept in 2018..that is Exactly where we would be today and forever.
There'd be No Ukraine Inv. No Accountability No checks on the Executive No Impeachment ..just tons of flounting of laws and far more undoing of institutional norms to the point that 2020 would be virtually already decided.

Almost been there, almost did that...keep that one for yourself.

BN747


Really, what happened 2008-2010?

Democrat controlled house.
Democrat controlled senate. With 60 votes.
Democrat controlled White house.

This might happen in 2020 but on the Republican side ex 60 senate votes.


Learn some political history instead of cut n' pasting 'ideas & notions' you've heard from radio loud mouth.

You were alive in 2008-2010..I'm sure you have some deeper insight to what 2010 midterms were...it was exactly as 'someone' told you...because I sure you weren't paying attention either.

BN747


For two years you guys entirely controlled DC. Just because if it was you guys the 'good guys' everything was good.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
BN747
Posts: 7319
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:12 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Really, what happened 2008-2010?

Democrat controlled house.
Democrat controlled senate. With 60 votes.
Democrat controlled White house.

This might happen in 2020 but on the Republican side ex 60 senate votes.


Learn some political history instead of cut n' pasting 'ideas & notions' you've heard from radio loud mouth.

You were alive in 2008-2010..I'm sure you have some deeper insight to what 2010 midterms were...it was exactly as 'someone' told you...because I sure you weren't paying attention either.

BN747


For two years you guys entirely controlled DC. Just because if it was you guys the 'good guys' everything was good.


Do tell...what was so horriffic in 2009-2010 that you recall...go for it, I smell something pretty stupid coming..but prove me wrong.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:18 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Learn some political history instead of cut n' pasting 'ideas & notions' you've heard from radio loud mouth.

You were alive in 2008-2010..I'm sure you have some deeper insight to what 2010 midterms were...it was exactly as 'someone' told you...because I sure you weren't paying attention either.

BN747


For two years you guys entirely controlled DC. Just because if it was you guys the 'good guys' everything was good.


Do tell...what was so horriffic in 2009-2010 that you recall...go for it, I smell something pretty stupid coming..but prove me wrong.

BN747


Because you are a Democrat all was wonderful, but the prospect of a Republican controlled congress and White House for you is similar to the world coming to an end.

Politics is about arrogance, because its me governing I will do a great job, the other's wont know how to better than me. That's an argument for any political spectrum.

So lets quit trying to believe you are better than anyone else, that's why 'normalcy' wont ever return to US politics.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
BN747
Posts: 7319
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:24 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

For two years you guys entirely controlled DC. Just because if it was you guys the 'good guys' everything was good.


Do tell...what was so horriffic in 2009-2010 that you recall...go for it, I smell something pretty stupid coming..but prove me wrong.

BN747


Because you are a Democrat all was wonderful, but the prospect of a Republican controlled congress and White House for you is similar to the world coming to an end.

Politics is about arrogance, because its me governing I will do a great job, the other's wont know how to better than me. That's an argument for any political spectrum.

So lets quit trying to believe you are better than anyone else, that's why 'normalcy' wont ever return to US politics.


Ok, you couldn't answer what was so horrible 2008-2010 and only come up with some philosophical bag of garbage...I'm now convinced I'm dealing with a child...so you'll have to bait some others here play your silly little 'I know what's going on, really I do!' game.

I'm out.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:27 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Do tell...what was so horriffic in 2009-2010 that you recall...go for it, I smell something pretty stupid coming..but prove me wrong.

BN747


Because you are a Democrat all was wonderful, but the prospect of a Republican controlled congress and White House for you is similar to the world coming to an end.

Politics is about arrogance, because its me governing I will do a great job, the other's wont know how to better than me. That's an argument for any political spectrum.

So lets quit trying to believe you are better than anyone else, that's why 'normalcy' wont ever return to US politics.


Ok, you couldn't answer what was so horrible 2008-2010 and only come up with some philosophical bag of garbage...I'm now convinced I'm dealing with a child...so you'll have bate some others here play your silly little 'I know what's going on, really I do!' game.

I'm out.

BN747


Why would I, I could post hundreds of reasons why the 2008-2010 you guys did not use the powers for good.

For starters you passed Obama-care without any Bi-partisan support. That's why you folks lost in 2010.

Secondly, you guys run on the " We are pro-immigration" platform, but did not pass any significant piece of immigration legislation. I bet it was to keep it there for further elections because you needed further arguments to get votes.

On a fiscal level, spending ballooned incredibly, burdening generations with Trillions in debt.

The list goes on, but I am sure these aren't issues of significance for the left.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 9857
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:36 pm

BN747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

I think a third party would do that better.


I am not sure . Maybe a wedge middle? I still think that open primaries would allow for more parties, and more points of view. you could run on a party platform, but at the end of the day, you are working towards the bell curve middle instead of the tailing edges hoping to scrape closer to the edge of the middle.


More parties = more confusion.

We are living in an age where actual facts are under siege, fake news is a real thing delivered deliberately with the sole intent to confuse. Swimming in those waters requires less competition because by our very nature - we hate trying to sort 'politics' out. Most people see politics as a system they did not design and hold about as much enthusiasim in it's inner workings as they are in that of the IRS.

In other words, it'll turn off more people than it does now. Making transparency less transparent.

BN747


No I think not.Part of the issue is that we have two very large camps where there are news sources to placate each side. Adding more parties, or making primaries open, make the choices leading into final elections less binary and more of an aggregate.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
Posts: 7319
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:50 pm

casinterest wrote:
BN747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

I am not sure . Maybe a wedge middle? I still think that open primaries would allow for more parties, and more points of view. you could run on a party platform, but at the end of the day, you are working towards the bell curve middle instead of the tailing edges hoping to scrape closer to the edge of the middle.


More parties = more confusion.

We are living in an age where actual facts are under siege, fake news is a real thing delivered deliberately with the sole intent to confuse. Swimming in those waters requires less competition because by our very nature - we hate trying to sort 'politics' out. Most people see politics as a system they did not design and hold about as much enthusiasim in it's inner workings as they are in that of the IRS.

In other words, it'll turn off more people than it does now. Making transparency less transparent.

BN747


No I think not.Part of the issue is that we have two very large camps where there are news sources to placate each side. Adding more parties, or making primaries open, make the choices leading into final elections less binary and more of an aggregate.


Yes, for those paying attention newsies like yourself and me as well, most people are a galaxy away from being on that level therefore susceptible ANYTHING..even making it easier for my trump-like creatures to creep in from multiple angles. At least now, we have a clear right vs wrong...ask the premier observer - the world for their opinion on America under this leader.

Nowhere near popular except Russia, Israel, NK, Philippines. The world community knows when America is performing well and when it is not. Right now it certainly is not.

We need to thoroughly vet ALL candidates, a financially compromised desperate man should have never gotten through the process, such is clearly a threat to national security.

Multiple parties pits various sides against one or the other(s)... if there is a better way to produce a convoluted process (esp. for the not so informed)...this is it.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Re: Will normalcy ever return to US politics?

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:34 pm

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