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luckyone
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:13 pm

For the second result in a row, I'm (pleasantly) surprised by how well Buttigieg is doing in rural white conservative areas. I don't know if that can be extrapolated to a general election, but it's encouraging nonetheless. I would love a ticket with either combination of Buttigieg-Klobuchar.
einsteinboricua wrote:
If I were Bernie, I'd be worried about the results of NH. Yes, he won the total vote, but in terms of delegates, he tied Buttigieg. Not only that, collectively, 74% opted someone else. If we consider Warren and Sanders to be the progressives of the party, combined they still trail the combined tally that Klobuchar and Buttigieg got.

To tie into that, compare the margin with which he won NH in 2016. Last night he won NH by slightly more than 1%, when he won by 35% last time. Even with all of Warren's voters he wouldn't have approached 35%. That's what I would worry about. Personally I hope that his star fades.

einsteinboricua wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think the establishment Democrats actually fear the possibility of Bernie beating Trump more than him just winning the primary, because if Bernie becomes President, the gravy train's over!

I don't think it has anything to do with Bernie beating Trump...that's still up in the air and we only have 2016 data which is faulty considering there were only two contenders back then. Rather it's that IF by some miracle he ekes out a win, he'll be a lame duck president because his would need to compromise with Democrats to get them to pass his agenda items. That's assuming that Democrats retain the House and regain the Senate (which will also be an issue since Bernie's seat would be filled by a Republican, assuming Gov Scott remains governor, until a special election). If Republicans retain the Senate, Bernie's progressive agenda goes up in smoke.

And it would be interesting to see the same people who rail against Trump using executive orders to get around Congress suddenly support Sanders doing the same thing (and vice-versa: seeing Trump supporters who turned a blind eye to using a pen to do stuff suddenly clutch their pearls).

THAT'S why a Sanders presidency is doomed from the start. Because he has already made it a point to not compromise, giving Republicans and moderates every reason to not cooperate.

Agreed, it's a fantasy that needs to be called to an end. There is no way his agenda is getting through Congress, and it blows my mind that no one is calling him out on that. And then what? You have a cantankerous and ideologically rigid old man calling the shots, all the while he's yelling at you, and what is his Plan B? No thank you. I've had reservations about Sanders since the last time around, the first and foremost being Sen. Standards jumping his ideological ship for the sake of convenience when the lifelong independent decides to run as a Democrat, gripes about lack of support, continues as an Independent after losing the '16 nomination, then he's back again as a Democrat. The fact that he is no longer officially an independent would make it harder for him to get things done, because few Republicans would want to be seen working with a Democrat, whereas a (crazy) Independent is still explainable.

Though he's certainly not the only politician to do so, he frequently does not answer the questions asked of him, often ignoring an inconvenient question. In the last debate when asked what qualifications made him an appropriate Commander in Chief, he veers of in to La La land and starts banging on about how climate change is a global threat, and that--and I quote--"we need to bring China, Russia, Brazil, and Pakistan and the whole world together on climate change." And I just had to laugh and turn the channel. For a brief second I thought I was at a Madonna or Barbra Streisand concert listening to those two loons prattle on about their Utopian fantasies.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:27 pm

luckyone wrote:
The fact that he is no longer officially an independent would make it harder for him to get things done, because few Republicans would want to be seen working with a Democrat, whereas a (crazy) Independent is still explainable.

What's even more interesting is that it's not even known if he'll accept the Democratic nomination. For example, in Vermont, the Democratic Party stands down and nominates him, but he rejects it. So what's to say that he won't accept the nomination in Milwaukee? Or that he'll take the oath of office as a Democrat? Or that he'll finish his term as a Democrat?
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Tugger
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:33 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
luckyone wrote:
The fact that he is no longer officially an independent would make it harder for him to get things done, because few Republicans would want to be seen working with a Democrat, whereas a (crazy) Independent is still explainable.

What's even more interesting is that it's not even known if he'll accept the Democratic nomination. For example, in Vermont, the Democratic Party stands down and nominates him, but he rejects it. So what's to say that he won't accept the nomination in Milwaukee? Or that he'll take the oath of office as a Democrat? Or that he'll finish his term as a Democrat?

I won't be totally shocked if he runs as a third party if he doesn't get the Democratic nom.

Tugg
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NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
luckyone wrote:
The fact that he is no longer officially an independent would make it harder for him to get things done, because few Republicans would want to be seen working with a Democrat, whereas a (crazy) Independent is still explainable.

What's even more interesting is that it's not even known if he'll accept the Democratic nomination. For example, in Vermont, the Democratic Party stands down and nominates him, but he rejects it. So what's to say that he won't accept the nomination in Milwaukee? Or that he'll take the oath of office as a Democrat? Or that he'll finish his term as a Democrat?

I won't be totally shocked if he runs as a third party if he doesn't get the Democratic nom.

Tugg


The DNC can't let that happen. They will need every vote to have any shot in the general and splitting of any kind hands Trump the win.
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apodino
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think the establishment Democrats actually fear the possibility of Bernie beating Trump more than him just winning the primary, because if Bernie becomes President, the gravy train's over!

I don't think it has anything to do with Bernie beating Trump...that's still up in the air and we only have 2016 data which is faulty considering there were only two contenders back then. Rather it's that IF by some miracle he ekes out a win, he'll be a lame duck president because his would need to compromise with Democrats to get them to pass his agenda items. That's assuming that Democrats retain the House and regain the Senate (which will also be an issue since Bernie's seat would be filled by a Republican, assuming Gov Scott remains governor, until a special election). If Republicans retain the Senate, Bernie's progressive agenda goes up in smoke.

And it would be interesting to see the same people who rail against Trump using executive orders to get around Congress suddenly support Sanders doing the same thing (and vice-versa: seeing Trump supporters who turned a blind eye to using a pen to do stuff suddenly clutch their pearls).

THAT'S why a Sanders presidency is doomed from the start. Because he has already made it a point to not compromise, giving Republicans and moderates every reason to not cooperate.


A lot of establishment Democrats are worried about the down ballot effect on their own races because of Bernie, and this is also a part of it. People like Ilhan Omar and AOC are the ones who get all the media attention from the last election where the Democrats came back into power, but they were also elected from dark Blue districts. Where the House was won was in swing districts and with more moderate candidates, one of whom has already changed parties. There is concern that a Sanders ticket would turn off voters in these districts and send them across the aisle, possibly even with the Republicans taking back the house. (Nancy Pelosi would be a dead woman if this happens which is why I think she is trying to stop Bernie behind the scenes even with the Squad supporting him) On the senate side, Doug Jones is pretty much a dead man walking (Roy Moore is not going to get the nomination this time), Maine is not quite as liberal as other parts of New England (Trump did get an electoral vote here four years ago, and the democrats won a seat despite getting fewer votes than the Republican because of the Ranked Choice Voting system), and Susan Collins has won tough battles here before. I don't think Sanders is going to be much help to Mark Kelly in Arizona as he tries to unseat McSallay.

And then with the house races, who knows? If the GOP keeps the senate, a President Sanders would have an impossible task trying to get the judges he wants confirmed, so he is going to have to compromise there. And anything he promotes on the campaign trail is DOA in a GOP senate. So the biggest question is, what would a Sanders Cabinet look like? I suspect it would not be a lot of Washington insiders, which is another reason the establishment fears Sanders. And also, would Sanders cabinet even be able to be confirmed by the Senate?
 
mdsh00
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:46 pm

A Sanders nomination would be fodder for the GOP and Trump. I think the only ones with a real chance to beat him are Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg.

Edit: Also the online and some in-person behavior of Bernie Bros is a major turn off for the general public.
 
NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:01 pm

mdsh00 wrote:
A Sanders nomination would be fodder for the GOP and Trump. I think the only ones with a real chance to beat him are Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg.

Edit: Also the online and some in-person behavior of Bernie Bros is a major turn off for the general public.


I think it was reported that Bloomberg jumped in to protect Biden from a Bernie rally but now I feel he will try for the nomination because Biden is a train wreck. I mean the guy can't even talk anymore and just embarrasses himself every appearance.

The Dems have themselves to blame, they let themselves get dragged way too far to the left.
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ltbewr
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:03 pm

There are still major splits in the Democratic Party as to who to have as their 2020 Presidential candidate. Each candidate has serious problems dividing the Democrats base and leaners, and with a general feeling the economy has been good for many over the last 3 years, it may be difficult to find one who can beat Trump.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:29 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There are still major splits in the Democratic Party as to who to have as their 2020 Presidential candidate. Each candidate has serious problems dividing the Democrats base and leaners, and with a general feeling the economy has been good for many over the last 3 years, it may be difficult to find one who can beat Trump.

Not only that, but if there's one thing I can give Republicans credit on is that after the primary is over, if the nominee is not controversial, they mostly coalesce around them (2016 is an exception because it was a battle of two disliked people and many votes can be interpreted as against one rather than for the other). Democrats (well, "woke" ones) have a purity test that if any criteria fails, it's game over.
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StarAC17
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:43 pm

apodino wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think the establishment Democrats actually fear the possibility of Bernie beating Trump more than him just winning the primary, because if Bernie becomes President, the gravy train's over!

I don't think it has anything to do with Bernie beating Trump...that's still up in the air and we only have 2016 data which is faulty considering there were only two contenders back then. Rather it's that IF by some miracle he ekes out a win, he'll be a lame duck president because his would need to compromise with Democrats to get them to pass his agenda items. That's assuming that Democrats retain the House and regain the Senate (which will also be an issue since Bernie's seat would be filled by a Republican, assuming Gov Scott remains governor, until a special election). If Republicans retain the Senate, Bernie's progressive agenda goes up in smoke.

And it would be interesting to see the same people who rail against Trump using executive orders to get around Congress suddenly support Sanders doing the same thing (and vice-versa: seeing Trump supporters who turned a blind eye to using a pen to do stuff suddenly clutch their pearls).

THAT'S why a Sanders presidency is doomed from the start. Because he has already made it a point to not compromise, giving Republicans and moderates every reason to not cooperate.


A lot of establishment Democrats are worried about the down ballot effect on their own races because of Bernie, and this is also a part of it. People like Ilhan Omar and AOC are the ones who get all the media attention from the last election where the Democrats came back into power, but they were also elected from dark Blue districts. Where the House was won was in swing districts and with more moderate candidates, one of whom has already changed parties. There is concern that a Sanders ticket would turn off voters in these districts and send them across the aisle, possibly even with the Republicans taking back the house. (Nancy Pelosi would be a dead woman if this happens which is why I think she is trying to stop Bernie behind the scenes even with the Squad supporting him) On the senate side, Doug Jones is pretty much a dead man walking (Roy Moore is not going to get the nomination this time), Maine is not quite as liberal as other parts of New England (Trump did get an electoral vote here four years ago, and the democrats won a seat despite getting fewer votes than the Republican because of the Ranked Choice Voting system), and Susan Collins has won tough battles here before. I don't think Sanders is going to be much help to Mark Kelly in Arizona as he tries to unseat McSallay.

And then with the house races, who knows? If the GOP keeps the senate, a President Sanders would have an impossible task trying to get the judges he wants confirmed, so he is going to have to compromise there. And anything he promotes on the campaign trail is DOA in a GOP senate. So the biggest question is, what would a Sanders Cabinet look like? I suspect it would not be a lot of Washington insiders, which is another reason the establishment fears Sanders. And also, would Sanders cabinet even be able to be confirmed by the Senate?


The establishment should fear Sanders because if he wins the nomination everyone at the DNC is getting rightfully fired. Tom Perez should have resigned last week after the Iowa mess.

Some moderates won in 2018 and some got utterly destroyed in the same election and now are talking heads on MSNBC (Clare McCaskill for example whom no one should listen to about wining at all). A moderate ran against Trump in 2016 and she lost. Obama governed as a moderate and the democrats lost 1,000 seats in state houses. Perhaps it is the wishy-washy moderate with no spine that is the problem and not the assertive progressive. That and the woke identity politics that Bernie is staying away from, he is talking healthcare and the economy only. He knows to stay away from Guns or Immigration and have good answers when asked.

Furthermore if Bernie did not have full control initially he can lobby the public that I want to pass these things and they can take action in 2022. I can see Bernie actually fighting the senate hard if he doesn't have control and he might be one of the presidents who gets a gain in 2022. I also find it interesting that conservatives don't think this way, probably why they win more.

One thing the democrats need to say is getting McConnell out is nearly as important as getting Trump out in November.
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StarAC17
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:45 pm

mdsh00 wrote:
A Sanders nomination would be fodder for the GOP and Trump. I think the only ones with a real chance to beat him are Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg.

Edit: Also the online and some in-person behavior of Bernie Bros is a major turn off for the general public.


Not for voters under 40. They actually see through this socialism attack and when look at Bernie's policies they like them and the reality is that the form of capitalism that the US has right now is rigged in favor of the rich and young people are pissed. Whether or not they vote is key but Bernie has the energy (only grows with CNN and MSNBC attacks) and those voters are not going to vote for the other party in the house race just to check Bernie.

Bernie actually polls well with independents and many conservatives like him way more than Pelosi, Schumer or Buttigeg.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-america ... ft-leaning

Buttigeg and Bloomberg (especially after his stop and frisk comments were aired) are probably dead in the water with minority voters and you can't win a democratic primary and definitely not an election without getting the black and Latino voters out. Biden (who is probably done) and Bernie have the minority demographics in the polls.

Even if one of them wins, Pete is fake and he is also gay (the latter shouldn't matter but will with a lot of social conservatives) . When Bloomberg goes after the second amendment and quadruples down on the war on drugs how is that going to land with moderates in the heartland or social libertarians who want to be able to smoke weed legally?
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:47 pm

Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:57 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Tom Perez should have resigned last week after the Iowa mess.

A disgruntled employee at another franchise serves fries that were spit on. Should McDonald's CEO resign because of it? This is a mess from the Iowa branch of the DNC.

That being said, Tom Perez was not the person I wanted as head of the DNC (not that Keith Ellison was my favorite either BUT I would have preferred him over Tom Perez).
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NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:08 pm

Culinary Union in Nevada having a presser in 50 minutes, nobody knows who they are endorsing and there is a rumor they will not endorse anyone.
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mdsh00
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:19 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:
A Sanders nomination would be fodder for the GOP and Trump. I think the only ones with a real chance to beat him are Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg.

Edit: Also the online and some in-person behavior of Bernie Bros is a major turn off for the general public.


Not for voters under 40. They actually see through this socialism attack and when look at Bernie's policies they like them and the reality is that the form of capitalism that the US has right now is rigged in favor of the rich and young people are pissed. Whether or not they vote is key but Bernie has the energy (only grows with CNN and MSNBC attacks) and those voters are not going to vote for the other party in the house race just to check Bernie.

Bernie actually polls well with independents and many conservatives like him way more than Pelosi, Schumer or Buttigeg.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-america ... ft-leaning

Buttigeg and Bloomberg (especially after his stop and frisk comments were aired) are probably dead in the water with minority voters and you can't win a democratic primary and definitely not an election without getting the black and Latino voters out. Biden (who is probably done) and Bernie have the minority demographics in the polls.

Even if one of them wins, Pete is fake and he is also gay (the latter shouldn't matter but will with a lot of social conservatives) . When Bloomberg goes after the second amendment and quadruples down on the war on drugs how is that going to land with moderates in the heartland or social libertarians who want to be able to smoke weed legally?


Not completely true. I know I'm just one person, but I am under 40 and none of my friends, family, acquaintances who are my age and younger are Bernie fans. Yeah he may have the lions share of the youth vote, but there is a good sized portion of Millenials (especially older ones) who aren't on the progressive, democratic socialism platform and don't care for the divisiveness of the Bernie campaign.
 
NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:12 pm

United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.
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mdsh00
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:14 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.


Word! But quite a troll move. I read it was supposed to be Biden but they backed off based on his performance in NH and IA.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:22 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.

And you'll see some individuals banding together to make their own endorsements. As it usually happens.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.


Is there a precedent for this?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:49 pm

mdsh00 wrote:

Word! But quite a troll move. I read it was supposed to be Biden but they backed off based on his performance in NH and IA.


Biden's appearance on the View this morning was scary. I hate to say this but I think he has some medical issue. He has no energy and when he talks he is rarely coherent. If he doesn't knock it out of the park at the debate I think he is toast and this is turning into Bloomberg stealing this at the convention where we will see a war.
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NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 pm

mdsh00 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.


Word! But quite a troll move. I read it was supposed to be Biden but they backed off based on his performance in NH and IA.


Chuck Todd just reported Sanders' supporters were acting very negatively toward the union maybe assuming they were in the Biden camp. Wow is this fluid. That debate will be fun.
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mdsh00
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:34 am

NIKV69 wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.


Word! But quite a troll move. I read it was supposed to be Biden but they backed off based on his performance in NH and IA.


Chuck Todd just reported Sanders' supporters were acting very negatively toward the union maybe assuming they were in the Biden camp. Wow is this fluid. That debate will be fun.


It came down to this handout the union made for it's members outlining the candidates' core policies. They made note that Bernie's M4A plan would strip the members of their supposedly good health care benefits. The Bernie Troll Army went berserk and started attacking members online as well as doxxing the president of the union. As you can imagine, they didn't take kindly to that.
 
NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:06 am

mdsh00 wrote:

It came down to this handout the union made for it's members outlining the candidates' core policies. They made note that Bernie's M4A plan would strip the members of their supposedly good health care benefits. The Bernie Troll Army went berserk and started attacking members online as well as doxxing the president of the union. As you can imagine, they didn't take kindly to that.


Wow but doesn't surprise me, Bernie's core supporters are very scary ANTIFA types. The Debate in Vegas should be the make or break and more and more I watch Biden in action the more I think Bloomberg is going to pull one of his power moves and steal it from Bernie who may have more delegates but not enough. The Dems are in a real tough spot.
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SQ22
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:12 am

To avoid deletion may I remind you always to provide a link to a source when presenting facts, thanks.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:33 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
United 226 Union in NV not endorsing a candidate. LOL. What a waste that presser was.


Is there a precedent for this?


no, usually they endorse someone. this year they said they were going to support whoever runs against Trump.
They said kind words toward Biden, and they were cordial towards Sanders, but everybody knows they don't want Sanders because
they negotiated for health care, and they have really good health care insurance that they want to keep.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/poli ... e-1956937/
 
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Jouhou
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:56 am

luckyone wrote:
For the second result in a row, I'm (pleasantly) surprised by how well Buttigieg is doing in rural white conservative areas. I don't know if that can be extrapolated to a general election, but it's encouraging nonetheless. I would love a ticket with either combination of Buttigieg-Klobuchar.
einsteinboricua wrote:
If I were Bernie, I'd be worried about the results of NH. Yes, he won the total vote, but in terms of delegates, he tied Buttigieg. Not only that, collectively, 74% opted someone else. If we consider Warren and Sanders to be the progressives of the party, combined they still trail the combined tally that Klobuchar and Buttigieg got.

To tie into that, compare the margin with which he won NH in 2016. Last night he won NH by slightly more than 1%, when he won by 35% last time. Even with all of Warren's voters he wouldn't have approached 35%. That's what I would worry about. Personally I hope that his star fades.

einsteinboricua wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think the establishment Democrats actually fear the possibility of Bernie beating Trump more than him just winning the primary, because if Bernie becomes President, the gravy train's over!

I don't think it has anything to do with Bernie beating Trump...that's still up in the air and we only have 2016 data which is faulty considering there were only two contenders back then. Rather it's that IF by some miracle he ekes out a win, he'll be a lame duck president because his would need to compromise with Democrats to get them to pass his agenda items. That's assuming that Democrats retain the House and regain the Senate (which will also be an issue since Bernie's seat would be filled by a Republican, assuming Gov Scott remains governor, until a special election). If Republicans retain the Senate, Bernie's progressive agenda goes up in smoke.

And it would be interesting to see the same people who rail against Trump using executive orders to get around Congress suddenly support Sanders doing the same thing (and vice-versa: seeing Trump supporters who turned a blind eye to using a pen to do stuff suddenly clutch their pearls).

THAT'S why a Sanders presidency is doomed from the start. Because he has already made it a point to not compromise, giving Republicans and moderates every reason to not cooperate.

Agreed, it's a fantasy that needs to be called to an end. There is no way his agenda is getting through Congress, and it blows my mind that no one is calling him out on that. And then what? You have a cantankerous and ideologically rigid old man calling the shots, all the while he's yelling at you, and what is his Plan B? No thank you. I've had reservations about Sanders since the last time around, the first and foremost being Sen. Standards jumping his ideological ship for the sake of convenience when the lifelong independent decides to run as a Democrat, gripes about lack of support, continues as an Independent after losing the '16 nomination, then he's back again as a Democrat. The fact that he is no longer officially an independent would make it harder for him to get things done, because few Republicans would want to be seen working with a Democrat, whereas a (crazy) Independent is still explainable.

Though he's certainly not the only politician to do so, he frequently does not answer the questions asked of him, often ignoring an inconvenient question. In the last debate when asked what qualifications made him an appropriate Commander in Chief, he veers of in to La La land and starts banging on about how climate change is a global threat, and that--and I quote--"we need to bring China, Russia, Brazil, and Pakistan and the whole world together on climate change." And I just had to laugh and turn the channel. For a brief second I thought I was at a Madonna or Barbra Streisand concert listening to those two loons prattle on about their Utopian fantasies.


New Hampshire is not all that rural. Most of the population is concentrated in the southern portion of the state. I guess the northern counties are pretty rural but there also aren't enough voters to have much say in primaries and elections. We're also not all that "conservative", republicans get elected because of libertarians.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:22 am

today, I had to vote in the Nevada Caucus, it was really hard to vote when there were so many qualified candidates.

last time it was very easy, two candidates. A lot could happen down the road, with that info I really struggled to decide on who to vote for.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:29 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.
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NIKV69
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:40 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Klobuchar is desperate she flip flopped on the question about should English be the official language of the US.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... rsing-from

The Dem party has been dragged far left. Unless something crazy happens Trump will probably win the same states as 2016. I don't see much changing. Sanders or Bloomberg don't play well in PA, OH and FL.
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Aaron747
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:06 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Klobuchar is desperate she flip flopped on the question about should English be the official language of the US.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... rsing-from

The Dem party has been dragged far left. Unless something crazy happens Trump will probably win the same states as 2016. I don't see much changing. Sanders or Bloomberg don't play well in PA, OH and FL.


The front-runner has consistently had the same message that working folks are his priority - that may not play too badly in PA where trade war job losses continue unabated. OH and FL will not flip though, as you note.

https://www.industryweek.com/talent/art ... -past-year

Thing is, nobody has to wonder if Sanders is authentically for the underdogs in America. Anyone in swing states who has had second thoughts about whether a NY billionaire actually cares about them is already lost - unless they are totally on the WH KoolAid. Real wages have grown 1% or less despite all the promises made at tax cut time in 2017.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/g ... 4633EAFF05
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Sanders on illegal immigrants getting free health care

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/bernie- ... imary.html

Sanders on inmates voting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Sanders on late term abortion:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... til-birth/
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:18 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Sanders on illegal immigrants getting free health care

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/bernie- ... imary.html

Sanders on inmates voting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Sanders on late term abortion:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... til-birth/


Not that - I meant your farcical claim that 45 or 46 states would be won - maybe if the majority of the electorate was rural and over 65, but it's not - it's urban and suburban.

None of those issues above will decide the election - it's a referendum on Trumpism values and who can make better arguments on the economy.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Sanders on illegal immigrants getting free health care

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/bernie- ... imary.html

Sanders on inmates voting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Sanders on late term abortion:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... til-birth/


Not that - I meant your farcical claim that 45 or 46 states would be won - maybe if the majority of the electorate was rural and over 65, but it's not - it's urban and suburban.

None of those issues above will decide the election - it's a referendum on Trumpism values and who can make better arguments on the economy.


Again, why would you need evidence for an opinion? then 99% of all opinions on this forum or anywhere else would not be given if we go by that high standard. The economy is the strongest argument that exists for the Trump campaign good luck with that. As for a referendum, people will be presented with a choice of Trump or a socialist. I think out of the 'bad two choices' people will stick with the one that they have tested for 4 years. Again that's my opinion, no need to provide citation on it.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:31 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Sanders on illegal immigrants getting free health care

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/bernie- ... imary.html

Sanders on inmates voting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Sanders on late term abortion:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... til-birth/


Other issue is 45's polling in particular states since January of 2017, latest Morning Consult data. With a 'strong' economy, the numbers should not be this poor for percent change in approval rating over the last 3 years:

AZ -21%
CO -11%
GA -18%
KS -17%
MI -20%
NV -25%
NM -27%
OH -16%

From their data, FL, MN, PA and NC are pretty evenly divided between approval/disapproval and look pretty solid for him.

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:34 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Sanders on illegal immigrants getting free health care

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/bernie- ... imary.html

Sanders on inmates voting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Sanders on late term abortion:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... til-birth/


Other issue is 45's polling in particular states since January of 2017, latest Morning Consult data. With a 'strong' economy, the numbers should not be this poor for percent change in approval rating over the last 3 years:

AZ -21%
CO -11%
GA -18%
KS -17%
MI -20%
NV -25%
NM -27%
OH -16%

From their data, FL, MN, PA and NC are pretty evenly divided between approval/disapproval.

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/


Yes, let the electorate face the prospect of a socialist running the country. Which hasn't been settled yet, when it does, lets see the polls. Polls which the last time said Hillary would win in 2016.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:39 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Sanders on illegal immigrants getting free health care

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/bernie- ... imary.html

Sanders on inmates voting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Sanders on late term abortion:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... til-birth/


Other issue is 45's polling in particular states since January of 2017, latest Morning Consult data. With a 'strong' economy, the numbers should not be this poor for percent change in approval rating over the last 3 years:

AZ -21%
CO -11%
GA -18%
KS -17%
MI -20%
NV -25%
NM -27%
OH -16%

From their data, FL, MN, PA and NC are pretty evenly divided between approval/disapproval.

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/


Yes, let the electorate face the prospect of a socialist running the country. Which hasn't been settled yet, when it does, lets see the polls. Polls which the last time said Hillary would win in 2016.


Hillary was an uninspiring candidate with zero authenticity. As everyone knows, Sanders is a one-trick pony, totally authentic, no surprises, and young people are majorly behind him. The RNC's biggest fear is that they'll actually turn out and vote on their future. As things get fleshed out on the debate stage, it'll be obvious 45's 'communist' claims are BS, that Sanders supports small businesses and manufacturing, and that his arguments are not for Venezuela, but elements of successful systems like Germany, Norway, New Zealand, and the like. There is no excuse for double-digit losses in approval rating in so many states that should automatically be in the tank for a GOP president with a good economy. The values of Trumpism are a problem - especially for young people and suburban moms. He's going to run a nastier campaign than last time, and turn them off even more.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Other issue is 45's polling in particular states since January of 2017, latest Morning Consult data. With a 'strong' economy, the numbers should not be this poor for percent change in approval rating over the last 3 years:

AZ -21%
CO -11%
GA -18%
KS -17%
MI -20%
NV -25%
NM -27%
OH -16%

From their data, FL, MN, PA and NC are pretty evenly divided between approval/disapproval.

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/


Yes, let the electorate face the prospect of a socialist running the country. Which hasn't been settled yet, when it does, lets see the polls. Polls which the last time said Hillary would win in 2016.


Hillary was an uninspiring candidate with zero authenticity. As everyone knows, Sanders is a one-trick pony, totally authentic, no surprises, and young people are majorly behind him. The RNC's biggest fear is that they'll actually turn out and vote on their future. As things get fleshed out on the debate stage, it'll be obvious 45's 'communist' claims are BS, that Sanders supports small businesses and manufacturing, and that his arguments are not for Venezuela, but elements of successful systems like Germany, Norway, New Zealand, and the like. There is no excuse for double-digit losses in approval rating in so many states that should automatically be in the tank for a GOP president with a good economy. The values of Trumpism are a problem - especially for young people and suburban moms. He's going to run a nastier campaign than last time, and turn them off even more.


I give you Bernie's authenticity, but you will need more than the youth vote to win. You need suburban women, who might feel scared to change the course of the economy ship, with a man who is a self declared socialist who honeymooned in Moscow and is calling for a 'revolution'. You need African Americans who have the lowest unemployment levels in a long time, Latinos who have seen their wages rise thanks in part to Trump's fierce immigration tactics and policies. Don't know if the young will turn out in the numbers you need for a Bernie win in OH, MI, PA, WI, MN etc. Lets see but I only see NY, CA, MA, OR, WA, IL, MD, some in the NE such as VT, RI, DE. That's most of what Bernie will bring to the table... it will be for him to walk back all of his past statements to see if he could win that middle electorate. IF he does that then he will come out as 'unauthentic' and as a flip flop who is now not consistent. Difficult sell if he wants to keep the youth vote to come out for him.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes, let the electorate face the prospect of a socialist running the country. Which hasn't been settled yet, when it does, lets see the polls. Polls which the last time said Hillary would win in 2016.


Hillary was an uninspiring candidate with zero authenticity. As everyone knows, Sanders is a one-trick pony, totally authentic, no surprises, and young people are majorly behind him. The RNC's biggest fear is that they'll actually turn out and vote on their future. As things get fleshed out on the debate stage, it'll be obvious 45's 'communist' claims are BS, that Sanders supports small businesses and manufacturing, and that his arguments are not for Venezuela, but elements of successful systems like Germany, Norway, New Zealand, and the like. There is no excuse for double-digit losses in approval rating in so many states that should automatically be in the tank for a GOP president with a good economy. The values of Trumpism are a problem - especially for young people and suburban moms. He's going to run a nastier campaign than last time, and turn them off even more.


I give you Bernie's authenticity, but you will need more than the youth vote to win. You need suburban women, who might feel scared to change the course of the economy ship, with a man who is a self declared socialist who honeymooned in Moscow and is calling for a 'revolution'. You need African Americans who have the lowest unemployment levels in a long time, Latinos who have seen their wages rise thanks in part to Trump's fierce immigration tactics and policies. Don't know if the young will turn out in the numbers you need for a Bernie win in OH, MI, PA, WI, MN etc. Lets see but I only see NY, CA, MA, OR, WA, MD, some in the NE such as VT, RI, DE. That's most of what Bernie will bring to the table... it will be for him to walk back all of his past statements to see if he could win that middle electorate. IF he does that then he will come out as 'unauthentic' and as a flip flop who is now not consistent. Difficult sell if he wants to keep the youth vote to come out for him.


Suburban women are smarter than you are giving them credit for - they’re more scared of 45 setting a terrible example for their kids and letting Goebbels Miller run immigration policy. All Sanders would need to say in a debate is: “Germany and Australia have Medicare for all, and there are still thriving industries and wealthy people there too”. Economic fears destroyed.

As for Latinos, they are swarming to Sanders:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has received more than four times the amount of campaign contributions from Latinos than any other candidate in the Democratic presidential primary....

... more Latinos in Nevada contributed to the Sanders campaign than to any other candidate.

The largest states by population - California and Texas, both of which have significant Latino populations - hold their primaries on Super Tuesday, March 3. Those states fell under the national trend, with Latinos donating more to Sanders than Warren and Buttigieg.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -study?amp
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:02 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Hillary was an uninspiring candidate with zero authenticity. As everyone knows, Sanders is a one-trick pony, totally authentic, no surprises, and young people are majorly behind him. The RNC's biggest fear is that they'll actually turn out and vote on their future. As things get fleshed out on the debate stage, it'll be obvious 45's 'communist' claims are BS, that Sanders supports small businesses and manufacturing, and that his arguments are not for Venezuela, but elements of successful systems like Germany, Norway, New Zealand, and the like. There is no excuse for double-digit losses in approval rating in so many states that should automatically be in the tank for a GOP president with a good economy. The values of Trumpism are a problem - especially for young people and suburban moms. He's going to run a nastier campaign than last time, and turn them off even more.


I give you Bernie's authenticity, but you will need more than the youth vote to win. You need suburban women, who might feel scared to change the course of the economy ship, with a man who is a self declared socialist who honeymooned in Moscow and is calling for a 'revolution'. You need African Americans who have the lowest unemployment levels in a long time, Latinos who have seen their wages rise thanks in part to Trump's fierce immigration tactics and policies. Don't know if the young will turn out in the numbers you need for a Bernie win in OH, MI, PA, WI, MN etc. Lets see but I only see NY, CA, MA, OR, WA, MD, some in the NE such as VT, RI, DE. That's most of what Bernie will bring to the table... it will be for him to walk back all of his past statements to see if he could win that middle electorate. IF he does that then he will come out as 'unauthentic' and as a flip flop who is now not consistent. Difficult sell if he wants to keep the youth vote to come out for him.


Suburban women are smarter than you are giving them credit for - they’re more scared of 45 setting a terrible example for their kids and letting Goebbels Miller run immigration policy. All Sanders would need to say in a debate is: “Germany and Australia have Medicare for all, and there are still thriving industries and wealthy people there too”. Economic fears destroyed.

As for Latinos, they are swarming to Sanders:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has received more than four times the amount of campaign contributions from Latinos than any other candidate in the Democratic presidential primary....

... more Latinos in Nevada contributed to the Sanders campaign than to any other candidate.

The largest states by population - California and Texas, both of which have significant Latino populations - hold their primaries on Super Tuesday, March 3. Those states fell under the national trend, with Latinos donating more to Sanders than Warren and Buttigieg.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -study?amp


Ok good, you seem pretty convinced and confident, how about raising taxes on anyone who makes more than 29K?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreWAip ... tion=share

You think this is a winning argument? Its a tough sell.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:17 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I give you Bernie's authenticity, but you will need more than the youth vote to win. You need suburban women, who might feel scared to change the course of the economy ship, with a man who is a self declared socialist who honeymooned in Moscow and is calling for a 'revolution'. You need African Americans who have the lowest unemployment levels in a long time, Latinos who have seen their wages rise thanks in part to Trump's fierce immigration tactics and policies. Don't know if the young will turn out in the numbers you need for a Bernie win in OH, MI, PA, WI, MN etc. Lets see but I only see NY, CA, MA, OR, WA, MD, some in the NE such as VT, RI, DE. That's most of what Bernie will bring to the table... it will be for him to walk back all of his past statements to see if he could win that middle electorate. IF he does that then he will come out as 'unauthentic' and as a flip flop who is now not consistent. Difficult sell if he wants to keep the youth vote to come out for him.


Suburban women are smarter than you are giving them credit for - they’re more scared of 45 setting a terrible example for their kids and letting Goebbels Miller run immigration policy. All Sanders would need to say in a debate is: “Germany and Australia have Medicare for all, and there are still thriving industries and wealthy people there too”. Economic fears destroyed.

As for Latinos, they are swarming to Sanders:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has received more than four times the amount of campaign contributions from Latinos than any other candidate in the Democratic presidential primary....

... more Latinos in Nevada contributed to the Sanders campaign than to any other candidate.

The largest states by population - California and Texas, both of which have significant Latino populations - hold their primaries on Super Tuesday, March 3. Those states fell under the national trend, with Latinos donating more to Sanders than Warren and Buttigieg.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -study?amp


Ok good, you seem pretty convinced and confident, how about raising taxes on anyone who makes more than 29K?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreWAip ... tion=share

You think this is a winning argument? Its a tough sell.


It's not a tough sell at all - it's just missing context the way the clip is cut. This is exactly how things work in Japan, Germany, France etc - anywhere with a Medicare system. Instead of paying $500/month for premiums, in a $60K job, you'd pay a $200/month healthcare tax. Employers will love it once more people opt into the system, as they'll have dramatic savings. If people hear they'll be saving $250 month on average, and will be able to choose any provider or clinic they want instead of negotiating deductibles and comparing 'networks' AND that nothing will change when they change jobs, it'll quickly become more popular, especially among young workers.

And people like me who have used such systems when living abroad will spread the word. All Sanders needs to do on the debate stage is ask Trump: how much does a family of four pay in premiums now? He won't know the answer, and people will see who on the stage is actually interested in their lives.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:29 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Klobuchar is desperate she flip flopped on the question about should English be the official language of the US.

If flipflopping is desperation, then the Trump/Pence ticket has turned into a pancake since they got in office:
-Deficits were all they were worried about but now, they've said deficits are good for growing the economy.
-Entitlements (read: SS, Medicare, and Medicaid) would never be touched, but the latest budget proposal proposes cuts to all 3.
-Mexico would pay for the wall, then it would reimburse us for the wall, then the trade deal would pay for the wall, then the repatriations would be taxed and pay for the wall, then the wall would pay for itself, and now we raid the Pentagon's budget for the wall.
-"Lock her up" during the campaign and after being elected, "I don't want to hurt them".
-"I won't have time to play golf. I'll be in the White House working my ass off"...he's currently in his 29th trip to Mar-A-Lago and his 247th golf trip overall.
-Government handouts are socialism...unless they're for farmers or in the form of tax credits for factories and coal mines to keep humming...then it's just business.

But sure, flipflopping on an issue that's not controversial is grounds for a scandal.

NIKV69 wrote:
The Dem party has been dragged far left. Unless something crazy happens Trump will probably win the same states as 2016. I don't see much changing. Sanders or Bloomberg don't play well in PA, OH and FL.

All it takes is for MI, WI, and PA to return to the Democrats (while retaining MN and other razor thin states like NV and NH). MI is the easiest of them all as that was Trump's thinnest margin of victory. With AZ being the likeliest GOP state to potentially flip blue, we'd have to wait for the nominee to be chosen and see how they poll. I think both Democrats and Republicans are writing off OH...it flipped WAY too far to the right and the 2018 election showed that maybe, just maybe, it's a state that has lost its swing state status. FL, on the other hand, is still worth fighting for since it had a lesser margin of victory than OH did.

That being said: is it that the Democrats have been dragged far to the left or is it that the GOP is so far to the right that the Democrats are already "far left" in their eyes? Given the Tea Party Wave of 2010, where Republicans primaried each other for not being "conservative enough", and nowadays when they primary each other for not being loyal enough to Trump (since when is a party loyal to a person instead of an ideal?), I'd say it's the latter.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:06 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Suburban women are smarter than you are giving them credit for - they’re more scared of 45 setting a terrible example for their kids and letting Goebbels Miller run immigration policy. All Sanders would need to say in a debate is: “Germany and Australia have Medicare for all, and there are still thriving industries and wealthy people there too”. Economic fears destroyed.

As for Latinos, they are swarming to Sanders:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has received more than four times the amount of campaign contributions from Latinos than any other candidate in the Democratic presidential primary....

... more Latinos in Nevada contributed to the Sanders campaign than to any other candidate.

The largest states by population - California and Texas, both of which have significant Latino populations - hold their primaries on Super Tuesday, March 3. Those states fell under the national trend, with Latinos donating more to Sanders than Warren and Buttigieg.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -study?amp


Ok good, you seem pretty convinced and confident, how about raising taxes on anyone who makes more than 29K?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreWAip ... tion=share

You think this is a winning argument? Its a tough sell.


It's not a tough sell at all - it's just missing context the way the clip is cut. This is exactly how things work in Japan, Germany, France etc - anywhere with a Medicare system. Instead of paying $500/month for premiums, in a $60K job, you'd pay a $200/month healthcare tax. Employers will love it once more people opt into the system, as they'll have dramatic savings. If people hear they'll be saving $250 month on average, and will be able to choose any provider or clinic they want instead of negotiating deductibles and comparing 'networks' AND that nothing will change when they change jobs, it'll quickly become more popular, especially among young workers.

And people like me who have used such systems when living abroad will spread the word. All Sanders needs to do on the debate stage is ask Trump: how much does a family of four pay in premiums now? He won't know the answer, and people will see who on the stage is actually interested in their lives.


Nice way to sell it, when voters know that you are raising taxes also to pay for illegal immigrants health care, college debt forgiveness and free housing and still ballooning the debt, you will put them off instantly.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1485
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:07 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Watching these primaries unfold, I gotta enjoy how a party is 'blowing' away their chances of defeating Trump because they pursue fringe policies such as giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, allowing prison inmates voting rights and late term (due date) abortion. They keep this up Trump will win 45 or 46 states.


Source, evidence, citations? Just repeating stuff ad nauseam does not make claims true.


Klobuchar is desperate she flip flopped on the question about should English be the official language of the US.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... rsing-from

The Dem party has been dragged far left. Unless something crazy happens Trump will probably win the same states as 2016. I don't see much changing. Sanders or Bloomberg don't play well in PA, OH and FL.


are you joking? something crazy happens every time Trump tweets and shows off his narcissistic bullying. people are tired of being bullied. his last tweet he spelled Wales as Whales
god he's embarrassing.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:11 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Ok good, you seem pretty convinced and confident, how about raising taxes on anyone who makes more than 29K?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreWAip ... tion=share

You think this is a winning argument? Its a tough sell.


It's not a tough sell at all - it's just missing context the way the clip is cut. This is exactly how things work in Japan, Germany, France etc - anywhere with a Medicare system. Instead of paying $500/month for premiums, in a $60K job, you'd pay a $200/month healthcare tax. Employers will love it once more people opt into the system, as they'll have dramatic savings. If people hear they'll be saving $250 month on average, and will be able to choose any provider or clinic they want instead of negotiating deductibles and comparing 'networks' AND that nothing will change when they change jobs, it'll quickly become more popular, especially among young workers.

And people like me who have used such systems when living abroad will spread the word. All Sanders needs to do on the debate stage is ask Trump: how much does a family of four pay in premiums now? He won't know the answer, and people will see who on the stage is actually interested in their lives.


Nice way to sell it, when voters know that you are raising taxes also to pay for illegal immigrants health care, college debt forgiveness and free housing and still ballooning the debt, you will put them off instantly.


dude, the deficit expected to swell 25% the first four months in 2020. so you're just kidding yourself. Trump has got to go.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3506
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:57 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
If flipflopping is desperation, then the Trump/Pence ticket has turned into a pancake since they got in office:
-Deficits were all they were worried about but now, they've said deficits are good for growing the economy.
-Entitlements (read: SS, Medicare, and Medicaid) would never be touched, but the latest budget proposal proposes cuts to all 3.
-Mexico would pay for the wall, then it would reimburse us for the wall, then the trade deal would pay for the wall, then the repatriations would be taxed and pay for the wall, then the wall would pay for itself, and now we raid the Pentagon's budget for the wall.
-"Lock her up" during the campaign and after being elected, "I don't want to hurt them".
-"I won't have time to play golf. I'll be in the White House working my ass off"...he's currently in his 29th trip to Mar-A-Lago and his 247th golf trip overall.
-Government handouts are socialism...unless they're for farmers or in the form of tax credits for factories and coal mines to keep humming...then it's just business.


The irony is most of these are not examples of him changing his position and you omit the only thing he actually did flip on. His biggest promise after building the wall which he is building and I am against (except in strategic places) is he said the first thing he would do as President is repeal Obamacare, and on the first day if not first hour of his presidency, and replace it with something better. Yet three years later we still can't even purchase health insurance in another state.

The only reason he is using the Pentagon's budget as you to say to pay for the wall was because Congress would not approve the budget otherwise and reimbursement would occur later through the things you mention. "Lock her up" was something his supporters would say at his rallies. His only mention of locking her up was a clever comeback to her in a debate, she said "If I were President....(insult follows) and he responded, "If I were President, you'd be in jail". Keep in mind the counter investigation just started less than a year ago. He would have started it earlier but his attorneys said Democrats would scream obstruction of justice more loudly if he did before the SC investigation against him was finished. Trump has had over 320 accomplishments in three years, so his playing golf is a non-issue.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3506
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:05 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
are you joking? something crazy happens every time Trump tweets and shows off his narcissistic bullying. people are tired of being bullied. his last tweet he spelled Wales as Whales
god he's embarrassing.

And you, the Democrats, and the media take the bait every single time. His most outrageous tweets are almost always a Trojan horse to force the media to cover an underlying issue they would otherwise purposely ignore. And it's always the top story.
Last edited by afcjets on Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Suburban women are smarter than you are giving them credit for - they’re more scared of 45 setting a terrible example for their kids and letting Goebbels Miller run immigration policy. All Sanders would need to say in a debate is: “Germany and Australia have Medicare for all, and there are still thriving industries and wealthy people there too”. Economic fears destroyed.

As for Latinos, they are swarming to Sanders:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has received more than four times the amount of campaign contributions from Latinos than any other candidate in the Democratic presidential primary....

... more Latinos in Nevada contributed to the Sanders campaign than to any other candidate.

The largest states by population - California and Texas, both of which have significant Latino populations - hold their primaries on Super Tuesday, March 3. Those states fell under the national trend, with Latinos donating more to Sanders than Warren and Buttigieg.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -study?amp


Ok good, you seem pretty convinced and confident, how about raising taxes on anyone who makes more than 29K?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreWAip ... tion=share

You think this is a winning argument? Its a tough sell.


It's not a tough sell at all - it's just missing context the way the clip is cut. This is exactly how things work in Japan, Germany, France etc - anywhere with a Medicare system. Instead of paying $500/month for premiums, in a $60K job, you'd pay a $200/month healthcare tax. Employers will love it once more people opt into the system, as they'll have dramatic savings. If people hear they'll be saving $250 month on average, and will be able to choose any provider or clinic they want instead of negotiating deductibles and comparing 'networks' AND that nothing will change when they change jobs, it'll quickly become more popular, especially among young workers.

And people like me who have used such systems when living abroad will spread the word. All Sanders needs to do on the debate stage is ask Trump: how much does a family of four pay in premiums now? He won't know the answer, and people will see who on the stage is actually interested in their lives.

Except what Sanders is selling is NOT how it works in Japan, Germany, France etc. In almost all developed or Western countries with universal healthcare, you will not find that the vast majority of them: 1) Ban all private insurance 2) Cover dental, vision, long-term care, mental health, drugs, hospital stays and primary care for all 3) All with zero co-pays or deductibles. His plan is radical even by universal healthcare standards.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1485
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:53 pm

afcjets wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
are you joking? something crazy happens every time Trump tweets and shows off his narcissistic bullying. people are tired of being bullied. his last tweet he spelled Wales as Whales
god he's embarrassing.

And you, the Democrats, and the media take the bait every single time. His most outrageous tweets are almost always a Trojan horse to force the media to cover an underlying issue they would otherwise purposely ignore. And it's always the top story.




next time you listen to Trump interview please pay attention to the fact the Trump never states an abstract thought or idea.

It's obvious to me that Trump cannot think in abstract terms he can only view things in a one-dimensional way."He cannot weigh options, assess risk, or foresee consequences. Concepts like fairness, justice, honor, and integrity quite literally do not register.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2854
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:59 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Concepts like fairness, justice, honor, and integrity quite literally do not register.

I thought those are disqualifying factors for POTUS job...
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12352
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:58 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Ok good, you seem pretty convinced and confident, how about raising taxes on anyone who makes more than 29K?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreWAip ... tion=share

You think this is a winning argument? Its a tough sell.


It's not a tough sell at all - it's just missing context the way the clip is cut. This is exactly how things work in Japan, Germany, France etc - anywhere with a Medicare system. Instead of paying $500/month for premiums, in a $60K job, you'd pay a $200/month healthcare tax. Employers will love it once more people opt into the system, as they'll have dramatic savings. If people hear they'll be saving $250 month on average, and will be able to choose any provider or clinic they want instead of negotiating deductibles and comparing 'networks' AND that nothing will change when they change jobs, it'll quickly become more popular, especially among young workers.

And people like me who have used such systems when living abroad will spread the word. All Sanders needs to do on the debate stage is ask Trump: how much does a family of four pay in premiums now? He won't know the answer, and people will see who on the stage is actually interested in their lives.

Except what Sanders is selling is NOT how it works in Japan, Germany, France etc. In almost all developed or Western countries with universal healthcare, you will not find that the vast majority of them: 1) Ban all private insurance 2) Cover dental, vision, long-term care, mental health, drugs, hospital stays and primary care for all 3) All with zero co-pays or deductibles. His plan is radical even by universal healthcare standards.


The starting point for discussion is obviously neither here nor there - it’s to galvanize debate. This guy has been in the Senate a long time and knows full well that what could actually get passed will be a medium-rare version more similar to what other countries have.
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