AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:56 pm

JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S.

JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes thinks the flight-shaming movement gaining momentum in Europe could spread to the U.S. The airline’s renewed push toward sustainability is in part informed by staving it off.

“This issue presents a clear and present danger if we don’t get on top of it,” Hayes said on Thursday during JetBlue’s fourth-quarter and full-year earnings call. “We’ve seen that in other geographies, and we should not assume those sentiments won’t come to the U.S…so it’s very important for airlines get on the front foot of this.”

The flight shaming movement began in earnest in Scandinavia last year and was further highlighted when teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg sailed across the Atlantic to bring attention to the issue. Activists believe that more travelers should opt for alternative forms of transportation to air travel in order to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions from aircraft.

Although not yet as strong in the U.S., the movement has begun to bite in Europe, and airlines have responded with a massive public-relations push to showcase their climate achievements and to earn goodwill, in KLM’s case, suggest passengers choose other forms of travel.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblue- ... 42914.html

Is this going to really be an issue on this side of the pond? We don't have significant high speed rail substitute to flying, don't see how can this be an issue outside of California flying and flying between the Northeastern states. Other than that, don't know if this can actually take any form any time soon.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
phxa340
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:16 am

Well .... people can talk all they want but if a 350 mile drive takes 6 hours and you can fly it in 50 minutes for 50 bucks .... you better bet all of these “climate activists” will be on that plane. FYI - not bashing the movement as global warming is real threat.
 
GibbonUK
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:06 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:20 am

Would tend to agree with the analysis from the author of the topic, the USA / North America is of a size that inter-city transport requires the necessity to fly (in the most part).

I suppose there maybe an argument for travel along the 'coasts' , e,g Washington / Baltimore / NY by train , but someone from the US will need to tell me if these make sense from a financial basis? Whether you like it or not, the public at large vote with 2 main things when choosing transport...their wallet and their time! If the plane costs, say 10% more than the train, but shaves 4hrs off your journey time then people will fly.

Without getting too political, here in the EU the 'youth' have been brought up on the progressive, leftist, values that the EU pumps out at them. They are getting fed the propaganda, obsessive doom and gloom in education and therefore re-iterate it to the world. The hypocrisy of it is that the 'left' in Europe want more immigration, more social mobility, more freedom of movement...but less travel??? Go figure!

I'm not for one moment advocating climate change doesn't exist and again, not denying man hasn't played it's part, but I consider myself a realist and would tend to lend my support to technology being the answer rather than suppression of travel . Why? Because you are never going to suppress travel and in fact, every analyst has stated air travel is going nothing but increase dramatically, especially in the Asian / China region.
Just as advancements in technology took us from the Steam locomotive to the electrified train, so to must it take us from the fossil fuel rich engine to an 'alternate' source .

If we can't stop people travelling, lets change how efficiently they do travel. So, instead of chaining yourself to bollard to stop people getting to work whilst screaming in their faces, put that effort into being the entrepreneur that found the solution!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6609
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:41 am

People can fly less. There is no need for a train or car substitute for every trip.
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3524
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:47 am

Get woke, go broke.

Don't like the way I travel? Hurry up and invent the Star Trek transporter.

Even then, I'd still occasionally fly...Just for the view.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
User avatar
hic787
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:53 am

Yes air travel is a real and present threat to the climate. It just sucks how us regular folk have to feel guilty about it while many celebs and government dignitaries fly private which is considerably more detrimental for the environment.

I wonder to what extent this will catch on in the US, though? Interesting that the CEO says this just as they announced carbon neutral flights from June and using sustainable-fuels from SFO. Kinda makes me think it's all marketing spin to get more eco-conscious folk on JetBlue.

https://www.mediapost.com/publications/ ... goals.html
Last edited by hic787 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:54 am

Ok, then improve your airline instead of complaining like a triggered voter. If people want it to be environmentally friendly, make it carbon neutral like other airlines.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
catiii
Posts: 3285
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:59 am

stl07 wrote:
Ok, then improve your airline instead of complaining like a triggered voter. If people want it to be environmentally friendly, make it carbon neutral like other airlines.


JetBlue is 100% carbon neutral for domestic flights beginning in July. International flights are already governed by Corsia. They put their money where their mouth is.
 
catiii
Posts: 3285
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:07 am

hic787 wrote:
Yes air travel is a real and present threat to the climate. It just sucks how us regular folk have to feel guilty about it while many celebs and government dignitaries fly private which is considerably more detrimental for the environment.

I wonder to what extent this will catch on in the US, though? Interesting that the CEO says this just as they announced carbon neutral flights from June and using sustainable-fuels from SFO. Kinda makes me think it's all marketing spin to get more eco-conscious folk on JetBlue.

https://www.mediapost.com/publications/ ... goals.html


I didn’t read it as him discouraging flying. I read it as an admonishment to the industry to follow their lead and offset. Why give eco crazies the argument against air travel if you can take it off the table?
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1958
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:12 am

I honestly don't get why people give a flying fig about flight shamers. As someone who only started flying long distance in the last decade, you can't stop me from exploring the world, and this is especially targeted to those who have lived a well traveled life and are now advocating a shut down of travel upon others.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
catiii
Posts: 3285
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:16 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I honestly don't get why people give a flying fig about flight shamers. As someone who only started flying long distance in the last decade, you can't stop me from exploring the world, and this is especially targeted to those who have lived a well traveled life and are now advocating a shut down of travel upon others.


As a person i wouldn’t care. If it starts to impact the bottom line running an airline id care .
 
glideslope900
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:17 am

How about the fact that flying is more efficient means of travel then by truck/automobile?

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstrea ... 103194.pdf
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9849
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:38 am

[twoid][/twoid]
AirWorthy99 wrote:
JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S.

JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes thinks the flight-shaming movement gaining momentum in Europe could spread to the U.S. The airline’s renewed push toward sustainability is in part informed by staving it off.

“This issue presents a clear and present danger if we don’t get on top of it,” Hayes said on Thursday during JetBlue’s fourth-quarter and full-year earnings call. “We’ve seen that in other geographies, and we should not assume those sentiments won’t come to the U.S…so it’s very important for airlines get on the front foot of this.”

The flight shaming movement began in earnest in Scandinavia last year and was further highlighted when teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg sailed across the Atlantic to bring attention to the issue. Activists believe that more travelers should opt for alternative forms of transportation to air travel in order to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions from aircraft.

Although not yet as strong in the U.S., the movement has begun to bite in Europe, and airlines have responded with a massive public-relations push to showcase their climate achievements and to earn goodwill, in KLM’s case, suggest passengers choose other forms of travel.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblue- ... 42914.html

Is this going to really be an issue on this side of the pond? We don't have significant high speed rail substitute to flying, don't see how can this be an issue outside of California flying and flying between the Northeastern states. Other than that, don't know if this can actually take any form any time soon.

Nevermind that flying is better for the environment than everything but rail. Sigh.

AOC already started the shaming. I think she was in a private jet at the time.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9849
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:40 am

catiii wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Ok, then improve your airline instead of complaining like a triggered voter. If people want it to be environmentally friendly, make it carbon neutral like other airlines.


JetBlue is 100% carbon neutral for domestic flights beginning in July. International flights are already governed by Corsia. They put their money where their mouth is.

Frontier actually started the movement to be green in the USA, although I’d say it is cynical.

https://www.flyfrontier.com/green/?mobile=true
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:42 am

catiii wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Ok, then improve your airline instead of complaining like a triggered voter. If people want it to be environmentally friendly, make it carbon neutral like other airlines.


JetBlue is 100% carbon neutral for domestic flights beginning in July. International flights are already governed by Corsia. They put their money where their mouth is.

That's good to hear. Don't know what they are worried about then, the public won't target them then
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:45 am

I say all of this as a pretty leftist young person who is extremely concerned about the environment, and also a 1K UA guy who depends on flying: I am glad that the flight shame movement exists.

I do not think it's the magic bullet, but the more that it catches on, the more it's going to push the industry to do better. Real, tangible improvements if they're smart and get ahead of it. No matter where you fall on this whole debate, less emissions and waste are a great thing. They are also good for business. This is not up for debate. It's not going to catch on in the US as in Europe because of the size of the country and our lack of alternative infrastructure, but if we're lucky it will pressure the airlines to actually try.

In the end, I want it to hold the industry accountable, but not to cripple it. I think a globalized society that mixes and has more understanding of each others cultures is one of the most important things we should strive towards as humans. More problems can be solved this way than by chopping long distance travel off completely, including addressing climate change.
 
catiii
Posts: 3285
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:47 am

enilria wrote:
catiii wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Ok, then improve your airline instead of complaining like a triggered voter. If people want it to be environmentally friendly, make it carbon neutral like other airlines.


JetBlue is 100% carbon neutral for domestic flights beginning in July. International flights are already governed by Corsia. They put their money where their mouth is.

Frontier actually started the movement to be green in the USA, although I’d say it is cynical.

https://www.flyfrontier.com/green/?mobile=true


Looking at that site almost every airline could make similar claims. JetBlue is the first carrier to fully offset their carbon footprint.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:49 am

enilria wrote:
catiii wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Ok, then improve your airline instead of complaining like a triggered voter. If people want it to be environmentally friendly, make it carbon neutral like other airlines.


JetBlue is 100% carbon neutral for domestic flights beginning in July. International flights are already governed by Corsia. They put their money where their mouth is.

Frontier actually started the movement to be green in the USA, although I’d say it is cynical.

https://www.flyfrontier.com/green/?mobile=true


That seems like a joke or people are really stupid. Take a look at their "Upgraded Green Class":

Tray tables custom-built for modern technology
Guaranteed overhead storage for carry-ons
WIFI Free environment with freedom from your inbox
Planet-Priority seating with Personal Space Protection (no reclining seats)
Eco-friendly service items (no straws!)
Personalized entertainment choices with latest technology (brought by you)
Broad selection of food (also brought by you)
Peace of mind that you've made a thoughtful and responsible choice

So having no onboard wifi, seats that don't recline, no entertainment, and no onboard snacks is an upgrade? Hahaha wow
 
cpd
Posts: 6136
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:58 am

If you fly, you can still do other things like the car journeys you take, is the 1km trio needed, or can you walk instead?

Take a bus instead even. We can all do something. My home has solar power, I ride a bicycle to work. I do fly maybe one big trip per year (with a very expensive fare). But I don’t do much other flying.
 
airlinewatcher1
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:27 am

As an eco-conscious traveler, my personal approach is to reduce unnecessary flying however possible, and trying to use alternative forms of transportation such as bus/train and driving or carpooling. When I do fly, I also try to make a point fly on newer, more fuel-efficient aircraft such as the Boeing 787 and Airbus A220. Avoid older aircraft if possible. I purchase carbon offsets. Travel coach. Pack light. Not a perfect solution, but I do what I can, however I can.

I know it's not always possible or practical, especially for longer distances and travelling overseas. But I believe the climate crisis has reached a point where we all need to be aware and try to do our part. 2019 was the hottest year on record and Australia is burning up. I'm not against air travel by any means, but climate change is real and I also want the airlines to become more vigilant of their role and how they can improve. Nothing beats the convenience and ease of air travel, but unfortunately it has also come at a cost. It has a reputation for being polluting. I hope alternatives to jet fuel can be developed.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
enilria wrote:
catiii wrote:

JetBlue is 100% carbon neutral for domestic flights beginning in July. International flights are already governed by Corsia. They put their money where their mouth is.

Frontier actually started the movement to be green in the USA, although I’d say it is cynical.

https://www.flyfrontier.com/green/?mobile=true


That seems like a joke or people are really stupid. Take a look at their "Upgraded Green Class":

Tray tables custom-built for modern technology
Guaranteed overhead storage for carry-ons
WIFI Free environment with freedom from your inbox
Planet-Priority seating with Personal Space Protection (no reclining seats)
Eco-friendly service items (no straws!)
Personalized entertainment choices with latest technology (brought by you)
Broad selection of food (also brought by you)
Peace of mind that you've made a thoughtful and responsible choice

So having no onboard wifi, seats that don't recline, no entertainment, and no onboard snacks is an upgrade? Hahaha wow

It's more of a joke than anything, their social media team is starting to take a page from NK. And honeslty speaking, when you are on a high-density ULCC, you are more green than on an a321t with a major portion of the plane reserved for a small amount of people.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:39 am

I'm such a devout environmentalist that I don't have any pets, but I feel flight shamers are focusing on the wrong industry.

Fast fashion retailers like Greta's own H&M, and Zara, are MUCH worse for the environment than air travel is, because the natural resources and pollution associated with making cheap clothes in sweatshops in Bangladesh or Cambodia, transporting them halfway around the world to stores in the US and Europe, then having their purchasers toss them in a landfill after wearing them just a few times, is far more detrimental to the environment than flying on an airplane is.

Even having a dog is worse for the environment than riding on an airplane.

I wish Greta and her friends would shame people for shopping at H&M, or having a dog, because fewer dogs and fewer people shopping at H&M would be much better for the environment than fewer air travellers would be.
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:50 am

A. Did JetBlue not already say that they were going to become the first carbon-neutral airline in the US?

B. Shaming flight is not the way to make it more efficient, that just means that you're wasting existing resources and decreasing load factors on existing flights. Innovating and improving efficiency is the way to make it "green."

C. Flying uses less energy than driving.

The new Airbus A380, Boeing 787, ATR-600, Embraer E2 and Bombardier CSeries aircraft use less than 3 litres of jet fuel per 100 passenger kilometres. This matches the efficiency of most modern compact cars.


(Match for compact = significantly exceeded in efficiency for SUV).

D. Other sectors leave a larger carbon footprint than aviation, such as the fashion, car, manufacturing, and cruise ship industries. Though, I do not see many people shaming others for buying clothes, driving their car, or taking a cruise vacation.
Last edited by Gulfstream500 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:51 am

Flights under 150 miles really shouldn't be a thing? Why does PHL to BWI exist? Wouldn't be easier to drive or train? I know not all of it is ideal but these short hops seem wasteful
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:56 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Flights under 150 miles really shouldn't be a thing? Why does PHL to BWI exist? Wouldn't be easier to drive or train? I know not all of it is ideal but these short hops seem wasteful


Easy....because BWI is a connection hub for SWA.
 
airlinewatcher1
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:04 am

By the way, I’m also not a fan of the word “shame.” Shame doesn’t work. I see it more along the lines of being informed and making informed choices.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:05 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Flights under 150 miles really shouldn't be a thing? Why does PHL to BWI exist? Wouldn't be easier to drive or train? I know not all of it is ideal but these short hops seem wasteful


Easy....because BWI is a connection hub for SWA.

Right idea, wrong airline.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
catiii
Posts: 3285
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:07 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Flights under 150 miles really shouldn't be a thing? Why does PHL to BWI exist? Wouldn't be easier to drive or train? I know not all of it is ideal but these short hops seem wasteful


It’s not there to carry the PHL pax to BWI. It’s there to carry the PAX coming from LHR to BWI
 
trent768
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:15 am

^^ That's exactly what I said to my friends while I lived in Sweden. I think my country's old proverbs describe the situation pretty well: You can see the germs across the sea, but can't see the elephants on your eyelids.

One of my friend (who knew I'm an avgeek) tried to pull a flygskam move on me once. My answer is simple: I'll stop flying when they invented a train that can travel from Sweden to Indonesia in less than 20 hrs or a train that can travel across all Indonesian archipelago in less than a day.

I did 2 thesis on climate change and global warming, but God! Please be realistic! Not everyone live in a huge land area like Europe that connected to each other by rail. Or have the money to make something like that. Some of us live in a huge archipelago with huge seas in between or deep in the jungle/mountain top. Not everyone have the time or money to wind sail across the sea.
 
GalebG4
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:17 am

If you have 4.3 billion passengers and same problem for everyone in industry, then simply by putting real information in front of your passengers you can change public opinion of flight shaming! Whole industry must take measures in order to show real greenwashing intentions of green politicians!
 
User avatar
thekorean
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:05 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:33 am

The problem in this country aren’t planes, its cars.

I do think we need bit of plane and car shaming to finally invest some money in to rail systems, whether its subway, commuter rail or bullet trains.

Replacing some of the BOS-NY or PHL or DC flights with trains would do wonders for air traffic around here too.
 
TObound
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:37 am

thekorean wrote:
The problem in this country aren’t planes, its cars.

I do think we need bit of plane and car shaming to finally invest some money in to rail systems, whether its subway, commuter rail or bullet trains.

Replacing some of the BOS-NY or PHL or DC flights with trains would do wonders for air traffic around here too.


This is what people don't get. Build a proper rail system and aim aviation at trips that aren't as feasible with rail. Fixing the Northeast Corridor's $40B backlog alone would accomplish so much.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:37 am

Aviation needs to be defended! Why can't the movement focus on getting together to research new technologies? Start a University (focused on new technology) somewhere, perhaps funded by industry. (?) Does that work the mind just a little too much or require too much effort? Sometimes I get the feeling these movements are too convenient a distraction for some with no clear personal direction or just piggy-backers for another agenda. Flight shaming needs to be redirected and not focus on throwing humanity back to the stone age. Yes, we all need to be good stewards of the Earth, I agree. But the methods to get there cannot be to thwart advancement in an aviation industry responsible for global economic development that we all are fortunate enough to benefit from, shamers included. This will not just affect passenger travel, but think of the cargo and freight, much of which help humanity advance (think third-world). Flight shamers are in for some real public scrutiny if they aren't themselves living a flintstone life-style. But let's put our brains together people and think of real solutions. Don't shame the flight shamers. Perhaps a new movement needs to join them in a new, redirected agenda!
 
speedbird52
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:49 am

Or you could you know... fly fewer planes yourself and buy larger planes with better CASM? IE Instead of 3 A220s to a destination fly 1 A321?
 
speedbird52
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:59 am

thekorean wrote:
The problem in this country aren’t planes, its cars.

I do think we need bit of plane and car shaming to finally invest some money in to rail systems, whether its subway, commuter rail or bullet trains.

Replacing some of the BOS-NY or PHL or DC flights with trains would do wonders for air traffic around here too.

Agreed 100%. My college is 15 minutes away from my home by Bike. But I don't bike because there is a very large road in the way that has no bike lanes, cars routinely doing 45 MPH. Once traffic and parking is factored in, I save no time with my car, but create a whole bunch more of CO2. The local mall is five miles from my house, but it takes an hour to go there via bus. I live in decent sized town less than 40 minutes by car to Seattle. (Or two hours by transit) And from what I have been told Seattle is one of the better American cities for public transport. I am also lucky enough to live on a grid. I once visited a friends home who lives in a cul-de-sac. It took 10 minutes from the freeway to his house by car, and his house was around 2 or 3 miles away from the exit. Thanks American city planning!

The most popular international flight from Seattle is to Vancouver. It takes around 2 hours with no traffic to make the drive, and once you factor in arriving two hours before your flight, half an hour after landing, and half an hour of flight time, you have spent 3 hours travelling. Why on Earth do we not have reliable rail service between the two cities? Seattle to LA is another very popular flight. The distance between the two cities is 1000 miles. I refuse to believe that the entire West Coast air corridor could not be replaced with clean energy supplied electric high speed rail.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4261
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:14 am

Exactly why would the USA worry about flight shaming? The sheer expanse of the USA east to west almost dictates flying. You could easily take trains in Europe. But
their area is different from Ours How much fuel do we spend yearly keeping carriers operating and training our Pilots? How much Oil I burned keeping our ships at sea? How much Nuclear waste is generated in keeping Subs and carriers operating? Nobody has the right to tell us JACK!!
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:14 am

I have a hard time seeing this movement gaining much traction in the U.S. One huge reason it's caught on a bit in Europe is that Europeans have a highly-developed rail network and therefore, a reasonably expedient alternative to air transportation for longer trips, which is simply not the case in most of the United States. I'll take Amtrak from Seattle to Portland or Vancouver whenever I'm traveling to those cities, but it's not a viable option for pretty much anything else (say, the Bay Area) unless I want to plan on a full day onboard a train, which is generally not the case.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:19 am

I'll never be ashamed to fly. Anyone who is ashamed cannot call themselves an aviation enthusiast. I'll advance the throttle with a big smile on my face every time and think "this one's for Greta". :smile:
 
smartplane
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:26 am

A family member was a senior manager in Imperial Tobacco. He didn't believe any measures would / could reverse the numbers smoking.

ICAO CORSIA steering group are already working on new measures from mid-decade, like linking JV's / interlining flights. There is a suggestion of how that can be taken a step further to be far more punitive.

Any individual, airline or country that believes they will be immune from such measures is in for an unpleasant surprise.
 
ewt340
Posts: 992
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:31 am

I would shame airlines for tight pitch, expensive baggage fees, their on time performances or when their stupid CEO throwing tantrum every 30 minutes.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:37 am

catiii wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Flights under 150 miles really shouldn't be a thing? Why does PHL to BWI exist? Wouldn't be easier to drive or train? I know not all of it is ideal but these short hops seem wasteful


It’s not there to carry the PHL pax to BWI. It’s there to carry the PAX coming from LHR to BWI


They have BA at BWI. The fares just don't seem justify the connecting flight when you could drive one hour to PHL or BWI for flights.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1641
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:38 am

Flight shaming would be the most dramatic in Seattle where the woke liberals and socialists love their Alaska. What would they do? What side would they take?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:47 am

n7371f wrote:
Flight shaming would be the most dramatic in Seattle where the woke liberals and socialists love their Alaska. What would they do? What side would they take?

What are you talking about? I'm super liberal. Logic dictates what people do flawed or not. The whole point is to fly when we need too. In the U.S. yeah you fly when it's over 500 miles. Otherwise it's way cheaper to drive or train.

The point is us liberals want more trains connecting city pairs that are in reasonable distance. Like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver. Atlanta and it's near by cities.

People will take the side of logic. Flight shame the routes the are under 100 miles. Besides people will still fly liberal or not.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1641
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:51 am

Oh you speak for every liberal in SEA...OK.

PHLspecial wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Flight shaming would be the most dramatic in Seattle where the woke liberals and socialists love their Alaska. What would they do? What side would they take?

What are you talking about? I'm super liberal. Logic dictates what people do flawed or not. The whole point is to fly when we need too. In the U.S. yeah you fly when it's over 500 miles. Otherwise it's way cheaper to drive or train.

The point is us liberals want more trains connecting city pairs that are in reasonable distance. Like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver. Atlanta and it's near by cities.

People will take the side of logic. Flight shame the routes the are under 100 miles. Besides people will still fly liberal or not.
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1424
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:30 am

Would love to know how much fuel Cunard burns on one of its crossings compared to an A380. Seems to me that burning fuel for days on the North Atlantic would be roughly comparable to a flight from JFK to LHR. If Greta did the crossing by sail, good for her, but capitalism puts extreme limits on people's time. Who will give us more vacation time to account for the hours we'll spend traveling from Kansas City to Los Angeles by train? It's one thing to be an ecological purist and quite another to keep the needs of the average person in mind.
 
TMccrury
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:24 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:30 am

So, here is my take on Climate Change. I've been around long enough to see the following progression of events in the Climate Chang emolument. In 6th grade, there was an Ice Age coming in 10 years. When that didn't pan out, it was oh, wait there is a hole in the ozone layer and the earth is warming. The Polar Ice Caps are going to melt and as a result major cities would be underwater from the melted polar ice caps. it was then promoted the Ice Caps were shrinking and it was all doom and gloom until Nasa published a recent paper stating the ICE Caps were as large if not larger than they had ever been and Ozone hole had shrunk. So, sadly, we don't really who is right. I do believe we need to take care of our planet and be responsible. But the same crowd that wants air travel to stop, will go fly on a private jet in a heart beat. The same crowd that wants us driving EV"s will jump in a Suburban in a heart beat. I do think, there are inventions that can make it less polluting. Yet, when you look at the fact, a fully loaded A350 set to fly from ICN - ATL uses about 80 gallons of JetA, per passenger, for the roughly 14.5 hour flight and that does not take into account the paid freight on board. It is pretty astounding. Nothing else, at present, can move 300ish passengers that distance for that amount of fuel per passenger. I take me roughly 80 gallons in my Jeep to drive about 1000 miles. So, my philosophy is, when the ones are whining about climate change and predicting the end of the earth in 10 years, but still get on private jets and ride in Suburbans, start doing what they are preaching why should I do what they are preaching? If were that important to them, they would be doing what they are preaching and they aren't. Al Gore, lives in this vast mansions that has an electric bill higher per month than my house for the whole year. Yet, he wants me to conserve and be afraid of Global warming or Climate change or whatever the next form of that will be.
 
CHRISBA35X
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:40 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:11 am

Issue here is that - as with a lot of this woke/PC thing - the folks doing the flight shaming are a broad group of people who don't need to fly, and hate on folks who do because its a wider class war thing. Its a lefty, socialist thing. They hate people who drive the fast cars, fly a lot, take cruises, eat meat and are wasteful - because they've come to hate people richer than they are, who have more than they do - by birth, privelege, colour or just because. People talking about white middle class male privileges, use sexism and the environment as the conduits through which to criticise, when in fact it is the fact that the have nots will always hate the haves. That's human nature and the wealth gap is now wider than its ever been, so the schism is also wider than its ever been. Its just now, class hatred is not ugly any more and you wont be singled out for holding pseudo communist beliefs as was the case in the west during the 20th century because you've justified it with actual problems instead.

By choosing racism or the environment you cannot yourself be criticised as you are "Right" and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Wrong then sits on a sliding scale, and the hysterical types soon end up conflating driving a V8 or taking a flight for a business meeting as being a "Nazi" - how do you argue with that? You cant. that's why JetBlue are worried. No biofuel or fuel efficient new A220 is going to solve that.

As with racism, those shouting loudest about it usually don't actually care about the issue itself - its about virtue signalling and using social media righteousness to further other agendas. the fight against rasicm and gender inequality, the environment etc are tools for many and causes for few. Flight shaming is the same. Its a class hatred thing mainly coming from those who cant afford to or don't have the opportunity to fly/travel themselves. You cant criticise the guy flying transcon for a weekend away for having more disposable income than you, but you absolutely can criticse him for being a planet killing Nazi ecomurderer. In reality the two things mean the same thing in many people's minds.

The problem is the herd mentality and our own tendency to listen to those who make the most noise - we aren't listening to folks who are actively trying to find solutions and make things better, (and that goes for racism, climate change, gender inequality etc - all MASSIVE ISSUES) because that doesn't suit the agenda. Its easier just to point fingers and hate other people as it suits your inbuilt class agenda.

You cant call someone a "capitalist" these days in a derogatory sense, but you absolutely can call them out on their carbon footprint, privileges etc which is basically the same thing and by doing so you cannot yourself be criticised as nobody criticises an environmentalist.

If I was a luxury car manufacturer, airline, cruise line, soft drinks brand etc etc i'd be very worried as the class war is already under way and its being fought on social media. The ugliest aspects of humanity all there on display for all to see. Grim.

The hope is that calm heads prevail and we can all see past this wealth gap thing that makes any real progress on these actual genuine issues impossible because of the hysterical and negative nature of the way it is communicated and the lack of informed debate. We need to talk about this to solve it, not accuse and point fingers. Unfortunately that's not how humans are wired up and why I do genuinely believe we're doomed as a species and that it will be our own hubris and greed - in its myriad forms - that eventually kills us off. Something very preventable which we could have sorted out but didn't because we were too busy arguing about who is better and who is worse and whose fault it all is. Something like... for example... climate change.
Last edited by CHRISBA35X on Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
DY789
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:05 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:17 am

I have no idea how long it would take to drive from San Francisco to Portland or from Washington DC to Boston, but I bet it is a pain in the ass and would always fly. Until small little domestic flights in the UK become far too expensive to justify, then I will always look to fly.

I fully accept climate change is a real concern however why would I want to sit in my car for upto 8 hours to get to Scotland from the South Coast when I could fly in 1 hour. Not enough to incentivise travelling by train.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7013
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:17 am

If B6 cared about flight shaming then they wouldn't have pulled their investment from Zunum.

The future of aviation and lower greenhouse emissions literally go hand in hand. Environmentalists should be applauding commercial aviation because it's an industry that ACTIVELY seeks out measures to minimize environmental impact. Evident in the evolution from a water injection turbojet 707 60 years ago to a A380 or 787 today.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
seat1a
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: JetBlue CEO Warns Flight Shaming Is Coming to the U.S

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:24 am

A big shot friend of mine in ops at DL told me recently that if there's a major volcanic eruption, the soot and smoke and all the crap that spews from the earth, would be equivalent to all the aircraft emissions since first engine flight.

I would then ask the climate enthusiasts what to do about that? You can't control nature.

What technology exists to make it better, however? And when JB says carbon neutral, does that mean offsets in some form?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], cedarjet, Francoflier, ShanghaiNoon and 90 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos