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Mortyman
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US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:13 am

US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

(CNN) — The Trump administration will implement a new policy Friday to make it more difficult for foreign nationals to travel to give birth on US soil to ensure their children become American citizens, a practice commonly known as "birth tourism."


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/23/poli ... index.html



Another day, another rule ... Does not include People from countries in the visa waiver program, mostly European
 
alfa164
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:00 am

Stephen Miller's desire for a new, white Confederate United States of America is grounded in unreality - but he has taken every opportunity to promote it during his tenure in this dysfunctional administration. Trump's white nationalist supports will be proud; the rest of the country, not so much.
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:16 am

Meanwhile, MIA/FLL and to a lesser extent TPA and MCO, see gigantic booms in European "birth tourism" 2017-2019...

....with one country (that shall go unnamed, but is somehow ALWAYS intertwined at the root of this administration's ill activities) seeing the largest such boom of all, and even ADVERTISING the concept internally.

2017:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians- ... s-citizens

2018:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bi ... mi-n836121

2019:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/d ... 244087002/


For the sake of candor, European birth tourism in Florida and New York is nothing new, and has been going on for decades.
Just sorta ironic (in a completely expected way) that it not only continues, but surges, during the tenure of an administration that pretends to be oh-so-tough on such matters.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
gokmengs
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:30 am

Interesting, but to play devils advocate to the supporters of this new restriction, most people I know that did this, and I know tens of them 100% of them came back to their respective motherland after getting the US passport for their child. Most are wealthy individuals (its not cheap to accomplish this) but they want the freedom of the US passport for travel purposes and the peace of mind that if it all goes sour in their respective countries their kids have USA to move to. Now what if any social benefits do these individuals get from USA? Probably next to nothing, and in fear of IRS they pay some taxes every year. Granted Its much easier to hide income in their own country and they are wealthy but they report some income and pay taxes. For those I'm talking about the US is a clear winner. However I'm not sure what percentage of the said Birth Tourism citizens fall in the category I just described. As a dual citizen I wanted to share my opinion. I'm sure I might be missing some angles that proves otherwise, and I'd like to hear them.
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WIederling
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:56 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Meanwhile, MIA/FLL and to a lesser extent TPA and MCO, see gigantic booms in European "birth tourism" 2017-2019...

....with one country (that shall go unnamed, but is somehow ALWAYS intertwined at the root of this administration's ill activities) seeing the largest such boom of all, and even ADVERTISING the concept internally.

2017:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians- ... s-citizens

2018:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bi ... mi-n836121

2019:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/d ... 244087002/


For the sake of candor, European birth tourism in Florida and New York is nothing new, and has been going on for decades.
Just sorta ironic (in a completely expected way) that it not only continues, but surges, during the tenure of an administration that pretends to be oh-so-tough on such matters.


I don't get the contention.
That is 33k US taxpayers per year gained where ever they go on the globe later on.
US is not a state where you can get much money out of the system that way.
( compare to any of the Scandinavian nations.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:22 am

gokmengs wrote:
Interesting, but to play devils advocate to the supporters of this new restriction, most people I know that did this, and I know tens of them 100% of them came back to their respective motherland after getting the US passport for their child. Most are wealthy individuals (its not cheap to accomplish this) but they want the freedom of the US passport for travel purposes and the peace of mind that if it all goes sour in their respective countries their kids have USA to move to. Now what if any social benefits do these individuals get from USA? Probably next to nothing, and in fear of IRS they pay some taxes every year. Granted Its much easier to hide income in their own country and they are wealthy but they report some income and pay taxes. For those I'm talking about the US is a clear winner. However I'm not sure what percentage of the said Birth Tourism citizens fall in the category I just described. As a dual citizen I wanted to share my opinion. I'm sure I might be missing some angles that proves otherwise, and I'd like to hear them.


Because these children can then get financial aid to go to university. After they send the child here to the US for university, and the child turns 21, they can apply for “family reunification” aka....”chain migration” and bring their parents, siblings, and extended family over to the US.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:40 am

WIederling wrote:
I don't get the contention.

Because you don't understand the rank hypocrisy inherent in it, vis-a-vis the way these such folks birth immigration/tourism is handled, versus those of the melanated (sic) persuasion.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
oldannyboy
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:15 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
Interesting, but to play devils advocate to the supporters of this new restriction, most people I know that did this, and I know tens of them 100% of them came back to their respective motherland after getting the US passport for their child. Most are wealthy individuals (its not cheap to accomplish this) but they want the freedom of the US passport for travel purposes and the peace of mind that if it all goes sour in their respective countries their kids have USA to move to. Now what if any social benefits do these individuals get from USA? Probably next to nothing, and in fear of IRS they pay some taxes every year. Granted Its much easier to hide income in their own country and they are wealthy but they report some income and pay taxes. For those I'm talking about the US is a clear winner. However I'm not sure what percentage of the said Birth Tourism citizens fall in the category I just described. As a dual citizen I wanted to share my opinion. I'm sure I might be missing some angles that proves otherwise, and I'd like to hear them.


Because these children can then get financial aid to go to university. .


You just have to be kidding, given the amount of countries that have far better universities at either a fraction of the cost, or no cost at all.
Coming to the US for that reason would crass stupid.

The US is one the world's developed countries with the absolute worst accessibility index to a good education [for those in the lower income bracket in the US]. Same for class mobility. It's actually one of the areas in which the US is performing really bad. Just like accessibility to healthcare and social security [for lower income people].
If you have plenty of $$$$ otherwise..... I guess it's the place to be.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:23 am

Dude, we’re talking about Russians specifically, but this also applies to China. You don’t seem to understand that most western countries don’t have a “birthright” citizenship policy as the USA does, enshrined in our Constitution. If you are born on US soil, even if both parents are RussIan (not US citizens) and even if you’re born on a 3 hour layover in JFK during a flight stop from Moscow-JFK-Buenos Airies.....that infant forever is a US citizen if they so choose.

US citizenship is a long term insurance plan and/or retirement plan two decades into the future. If you had means and money would you gamble everything is going to still be good for you in Russia or China in 2045?
 
WIederling
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:30 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
US citizenship is a long term insurance plan and/or retirement plan two decades into the future. If you had means and money would you gamble everything is going to still be good for you in Russia or China in 2045?


US "social security" is various ways of going into financial free fall on some mishap.
I could understand the stance from a Scandinavian viewpoint. There you could really ream the system that way.

But in the US?

Then:
You have bettern than 2 million citizens in prisons and lament about a percentage of 33k* babies that have a rather good chance of
being a boon to the US ( if just as tax payers later on) ?

* ~33k birth, intentional or not, by transiting fully foreign parents in the US per year.
Last edited by WIederling on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gokmengs
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:39 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
Interesting, but to play devils advocate to the supporters of this new restriction, most people I know that did this, and I know tens of them 100% of them came back to their respective motherland after getting the US passport for their child. Most are wealthy individuals (its not cheap to accomplish this) but they want the freedom of the US passport for travel purposes and the peace of mind that if it all goes sour in their respective countries their kids have USA to move to. Now what if any social benefits do these individuals get from USA? Probably next to nothing, and in fear of IRS they pay some taxes every year. Granted Its much easier to hide income in their own country and they are wealthy but they report some income and pay taxes. For those I'm talking about the US is a clear winner. However I'm not sure what percentage of the said Birth Tourism citizens fall in the category I just described. As a dual citizen I wanted to share my opinion. I'm sure I might be missing some angles that proves otherwise, and I'd like to hear them.


Because these children can then get financial aid to go to university. After they send the child here to the US for university, and the child turns 21, they can apply for “family reunification” aka....”chain migration” and bring their parents, siblings, and extended family over to the US.

In theory yes but how many of these wealthy enough to be able to take on the birth tourism left their origins to move to US? Impossible to know probably, but from my anecdotal perspective I went to school with 6 individuals that held US passports by birth tourism and after their education they ran back to their comfort zone of family businesses and no they didn't bring their families to live in US later on. I'm sure the example you gave is prevalent too, but I doubt its posting a negative on the whole to the US social benefits system.
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Aesma
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:42 pm

The articles says 10000 births from foreign mothers living abroad in the US every year. Small potatoes. In the single, minuscule island of Mayotte, France gets 7500 births every year by the same definition.

I came to the US last October for a wedding, and a guest, sister in law of the groom, was 8 months pregnant. The airline was OK with it, and she was French so this would not have affected her, but a new US citizen being born was a real possibility.

BTW, does "chain migration" work with permanent resident status ?
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dtw2hyd
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:47 pm

Does it going to make SoCal housing affordable?
All posts are just opinions.
 
Olddog
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:21 pm

If this is such a problem, why make relinquishing the US nationality so expensive an burdensome ? Ask all the people that inherited from that nationality by accident because their parents were temporarily working in the US and that need to pay thousands of dollars to get rid of it!
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DeltaMD90
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:22 pm

I find some posts odd... they are claiming people don't come to the US for birth for citizenship just because they think the US' education system is poorer than some other countries? Besides the fact there are a multitude of other reasons for citizenship, I'm not sure why you're comparing US school to Scandinavian ones, you should be comparing it to poorer nations' (obviously.)

If Sweden had birthright citizenship I'm sure they'd have the same issues but most countries don't have it, the US does, and the US with its flaws is light-years ahead of poorer nations in many many fields.

So I'm puzzled by the denial. I've heard from many naturalized friends that American citizenship is some of the most powerful in the world

That being said, I don't think this is a good measure. Another attempt to fix a problem in a terrible way. Admittedly, the real fix would be much more difficult, ending birthright citizenship. I don't fear immigrants or minorities, not at all, I just think it's a foolish way determine citizenship. Definitely a 1700s view of things.
 
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777222LR
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:56 pm

I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.
 
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par13del
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:26 pm

Irony is the previous administration beat this one on deportations, will use a more friendly CNN link.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/13/poli ... index.html
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:46 pm

777222LR wrote:
I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.

'
Except AFAIK Chinese and Russians are the two nationalities that dominate birth tourism statistics.

In Chinese community in US (Especially Hawaii and LA) there's a whole vertically integrated industry dedicated for Chinese women to give birth in US. Saipan is another place where birth tourism is heavy as mainland Chinese nationals doesn't need visa to visit NMI.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/chi ... index.html

Oh...and before people blame Trump on trying to create a "White United States", the feds already try to crack things down back in 2015:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/us/m ... index.html

So-call "anchor baby" and birth tourism are two different things.
 
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777222LR
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:16 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
777222LR wrote:
I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.

'
Except AFAIK Chinese and Russians are the two nationalities that dominate birth tourism statistics.

In Chinese community in US (Especially Hawaii and LA) there's a whole vertically integrated industry dedicated for Chinese women to give birth in US. Saipan is another place where birth tourism is heavy as mainland Chinese nationals doesn't need visa to visit NMI.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/chi ... index.html

Oh...and before people blame Trump on trying to create a "White United States", the feds already try to crack things down back in 2015:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/us/m ... index.html

So-call "anchor baby" and birth tourism are two different things.



Have you ever heard someone such as Steven Miller, Donald Trump, or an American administration be so overtly racist and/or racially critical and vocal about it in recent memory?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:40 pm

777222LR wrote:
Have you ever heard someone such as Steven Miller, Donald Trump, or an American administration be so overtly racist and/or racially critical and vocal about it in recent memory?


You don't have to lecture me about Trump's anti-immigration rhetorics. Been following all his stupid policies trying to restrict LEGAL immigration and scapegoating immigrants for all of America's woe for a long time (I'm DEAD against his stupid anti-so call "chain migration" crusade as I'm one of them and probably contribute more to US than his fat arse).

Ultimately, though, "birth tourism", while a problem, is not a major problem - you're talking about maybe 20k babies per year MAX. Ultimately it's just enforcing existing laws, though - often "birth tourism" involved tons of fraud, with people 100% coached on how to answer questions at an embassy to get the visa in the first place.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:52 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I find some posts odd... they are claiming people don't come to the US for birth for citizenship just because they think the US' education system is poorer than some other countries? Besides the fact there are a multitude of other reasons for citizenship, I'm not sure why you're comparing US school to Scandinavian ones, you should be comparing it to poorer nations' (obviously.)

If Sweden had birthright citizenship I'm sure they'd have the same issues but most countries don't have it, the US does, and the US with its flaws is light-years ahead of poorer nations in many many fields.

So I'm puzzled by the denial. I've heard from many naturalized friends that American citizenship is some of the most powerful in the world

That being said, I don't think this is a good measure. Another attempt to fix a problem in a terrible way. Admittedly, the real fix would be much more difficult, ending birthright citizenship. I don't fear immigrants or minorities, not at all, I just think it's a foolish way determine citizenship. Definitely a 1700s view of things.




This is a regulation that has no teeth. It is unenforceable. As people in the US are forbidden to ask if women are pregnant.

Wasn't there a party that ran on ending unnecessary regulations?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
WIederling
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
This is a regulation that has no teeth. It is unenforceable. As people in the US are forbidden to ask if women are pregnant.

immigration checking happens off shore.
law less region.
Wasn't there a party that ran on ending unnecessary regulations?


No idea. There is the concept of remedial sabotage in
Frank Herbert's writings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Sabotage
Murphy is an optimist
 
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casinterest
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:11 pm

WIederling wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This is a regulation that has no teeth. It is unenforceable. As people in the US are forbidden to ask if women are pregnant.

immigration checking happens off shore.
law less region.
Wasn't there a party that ran on ending unnecessary regulations?


No idea. There is the concept of remedial sabotage in
Frank Herbert's writings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Sabotage


"
According to the official on the call and the diplomatic cable, consular officers were told they can't directly ask a woman if they are pregnant.
"You must not ask a visa applicant whether they are pregnant unless you have a specific articulable reason to believe they may be pregnant and planning to give birth in the United States. You should document any such reason in your case notes," reads the cable. "You must not, as a matter of course, ask all female applicants (or any specific sub-sets of applicants) whether they are pregnant or intend to become pregnant."
"


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/23/poli ... index.html
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bhill
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:36 pm

Hang on...these folk pay CASH to have a baby in a US Hospital??? From pre-natal care to the discharge? That could be tens of thousands of dollars!!! And if a C-section is needed...whew!!
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seb146
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:00 pm

WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Meanwhile, MIA/FLL and to a lesser extent TPA and MCO, see gigantic booms in European "birth tourism" 2017-2019...

....with one country (that shall go unnamed, but is somehow ALWAYS intertwined at the root of this administration's ill activities) seeing the largest such boom of all, and even ADVERTISING the concept internally.

2017:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians- ... s-citizens

2018:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bi ... mi-n836121

2019:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/d ... 244087002/


For the sake of candor, European birth tourism in Florida and New York is nothing new, and has been going on for decades.
Just sorta ironic (in a completely expected way) that it not only continues, but surges, during the tenure of an administration that pretends to be oh-so-tough on such matters.


I don't get the contention.
That is 33k US taxpayers per year gained where ever they go on the globe later on.
US is not a state where you can get much money out of the system that way.
( compare to any of the Scandinavian nations.)


wait... wait... wait....

We have been told by the Republican administration and their MAGA supporters the whole reason we need to build a wall is because Mexicans flood the United States and get free stuff. Now, you are saying that does not happen? Make up your mind.

Republicans have wanted to stop "anchor babies" coming from the south for years and years. When birth tourism is brought up, they deflect back to "but... but... but.. MEXICANS!!!"
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:02 pm

The standard of citizenship by birth in the USA exists due to the ending of enslavement via a Constitutional Amendment as the Civil War ended (1865) to make former slaves citizens. The other reason to have such a rule is so that no one is a 'stateless' person. You could have situations where a person is born in a country that will not recognize them as a citizen of them if born outside their borders so could be 'stateless'. Some mothers can't go back home due to war, ethnic and racial tensions. We have that risk with some areas of India and elsewhere.

I do agree that the US government does have the right to deny visas to pregnant women from countries requiring a visa to visit the USA so can intentionally have a child here to have them get USA citizenship but we also cannot allow a child to be born stateless. I further agree that those that support it, likely criminals who found a new scheme to make money on, need to be substantially punished.
 
tu204
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:38 pm

Don't get why people still fall for this one.

Plenty of people out there that were deemed U.S. citizens after the IRS got on their asses that didn't even realize they were U.S. citizens and lived a few months of their lives in the U.S. trying to lose it and you've got people paying that much to get it?

Plenty other countries with travel freedoms and minus the hastle where it would probably cost less if you ask me...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
DDR
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:50 pm

I commute between Miami and Tulsa. Actually a small town outside of Tulsa and let me tell you, 50% of the people here are native Spanish speakers. These people will hold the door for you when your coming into someplace. They will say excuse me when they bump into you. They smile when they make eye contact. I say let them in. They appreciate what they have here.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:43 pm

Mortyman wrote:
US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

(CNN) — The Trump administration will implement a new policy Friday to make it more difficult for foreign nationals to travel to give birth on US soil to ensure their children become American citizens, a practice commonly known as "birth tourism."


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/23/poli ... index.html



Another day, another rule ... Does not include People from countries in the visa waiver program, mostly European


US State department keeps interesting statistics like "from this country, what percentage of people overstay their visa?" and "from this country, what is the percentage of tourists who give birth during visit?" Norway would be quite low on those lists. Other countries have higher measurements that compel different policies. It has been that way for over 100 years

The FBI has been investigating the crime rings that have been doing this visa fraud based upon birth tourism.
 
aklrno
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:28 am

I'm still trying to understand the tax implications for a wealthy family getting US citizenship for their child. Last I checked, US citizens owe US income tax on their world-wide income no matter where they reside. Is this true for dual citizens, which is what those birth tourism babies will be? Some day they will start to earn money and probably not pay income taxes. If they travel to the US are they then arrested for tax evasion? Makes that US passport a really bad idea. Am I missing something?
 
ThePointblank
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:32 am

This is also a problem in Canada as well:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/birth-to ... -1.5413296

As noted in this story, at least one hospital in Richmond, BC has about 1/4 of their births born to non-residents, some of which skip out on paying their hospital bills, which already adds to the strain on the healthcare system, on top of the compromised care for residents.
 
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:59 am

A number of Russians claim poverty to the hospital for indigent rates or just don’t pay the bills. Law enforcement broke up this ring of criminals recently.... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/us/a ... urism.html
 
bennett123
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:57 am

This is all because 10,000 Non US Citizens give birth in the US each year.

How many of those cases were planned?.

How do the medical costs compare in having the birth in the US as opposed to in home country?.

How many of those cases will want to be US Citizens and pay tax on their world wide income?.

Also I understand that women can have a live birth at any time beyond about 26 weeks, and that this is not known until relatively soon before it happens.

IMO, this is more to do with the narrative of Fortress America and keeping foreigners out.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:23 am

alfa164 wrote:
Stephen Miller's desire for a new, white Confederate United States of America is grounded in unreality - but he has taken every opportunity to promote it during his tenure in this dysfunctional administration. Trump's white nationalist supports will be proud; the rest of the country, not so much.


So is it your assumption that only coloured people come to the US to have babies, or is this what the administration thinks?
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:00 pm

bennett123 wrote:
This is all because 10,000 Non US Citizens give birth in the US each year.

How many of those cases were planned?.

How do the medical costs compare in having the birth in the US as opposed to in home country?.

How many of those cases will want to be US Citizens and pay tax on their world wide income?.

Also I understand that women can have a live birth at any time beyond about 26 weeks, and that this is not known until relatively soon before it happens.

IMO, this is more to do with the narrative of Fortress America and keeping foreigners out.


It’s 35,000+ and you’re missing the point. Why are conservatives and the Trumper team screaming about “anchor babies” when they are brown, but these non-brown people are staying at Trump properties and delivering anchor babies so their future little Melania’s can invoke chain migration to the parents and extended family, without a peep....much less facing being put in cages and being separated from their families?
 
alfa164
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:10 am

Kiwirob wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Stephen Miller's desire for a new, white Confederate United States of America is grounded in unreality - but he has taken every opportunity to promote it during his tenure in this dysfunctional administration. Trump's white nationalist supports will be proud; the rest of the country, not so much.

So is it your assumption that only coloured people come to the US to have babies, or is this what the administration thinks?


That would be the Miller/white-nationalist/Trumpian view of immigrants: great unwashed masses longing to be welfare recipients...

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
slider
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:13 pm

777222LR wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
777222LR wrote:
I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.

'
Except AFAIK Chinese and Russians are the two nationalities that dominate birth tourism statistics.

In Chinese community in US (Especially Hawaii and LA) there's a whole vertically integrated industry dedicated for Chinese women to give birth in US. Saipan is another place where birth tourism is heavy as mainland Chinese nationals doesn't need visa to visit NMI.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/chi ... index.html

Oh...and before people blame Trump on trying to create a "White United States", the feds already try to crack things down back in 2015:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/us/m ... index.html

So-call "anchor baby" and birth tourism are two different things.



Have you ever heard someone such as Steven Miller, Donald Trump, or an American administration be so overtly racist and/or racially critical and vocal about it in recent memory?


I'll rephrase that for you...have you ever heard someone finally take a hard line on standing up for American sovereignty and protecting our borders and what it means to be a citizen?
 
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seb146
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:17 pm

slider wrote:
777222LR wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
'
Except AFAIK Chinese and Russians are the two nationalities that dominate birth tourism statistics.

In Chinese community in US (Especially Hawaii and LA) there's a whole vertically integrated industry dedicated for Chinese women to give birth in US. Saipan is another place where birth tourism is heavy as mainland Chinese nationals doesn't need visa to visit NMI.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/chi ... index.html

Oh...and before people blame Trump on trying to create a "White United States", the feds already try to crack things down back in 2015:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/us/m ... index.html

So-call "anchor baby" and birth tourism are two different things.



Have you ever heard someone such as Steven Miller, Donald Trump, or an American administration be so overtly racist and/or racially critical and vocal about it in recent memory?


I'll rephrase that for you...have you ever heard someone finally take a hard line on standing up for American sovereignty and protecting our borders and what it means to be a citizen?


Immigration is a complex issue.

There are two different conversations to be had here:

Those who grew up or are growing up in abject poverty in the United States and work their butts off to make sure that never happens again
The Republican administration's belief that Mexicans are streaming across the border just to live for free off the American government and that Muslims are flocking here in droves just to commit acts of terror.

No one is saying "don't do anything about immigration" except Republicans keep insisting "liberals" want this. No evidence at all but if they keep saying it, the base believes it. Democrats understand there is more than one thing that must be done with regards to immigration. We were talking about this when Obama was in office. Republicans insisted that "birth tourism" is a non issue and why bother talking about that when there are anchor babies from Mexico draining resources? What do you all think these "birth tourism" babies are?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aesma
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:31 pm

My sister is in a civil partnership with a guy who was born in the US from a US father (Hawaii). He has lived there only a few months as a baby, doesn't talk very good English, has been there since then like 2 times in 27 years... He isn't reporting his income to the US taxman, so far it isn't much income anyway, but he will have finished school soon, and then I don't know. His mother has already looked at ways to ditch his citizenship but it's not easy. Now that I think about it I believe even she is a US citizen, with similar circumstances, she has lived most of her life in France, albeit she speaks good English. As a typical left-wing Frenchwoman, she's anti-American, despite being one herself !

I told my sister not to marry him until this is sorted, I don't know if she will listen. Once married, her income is fair game too.
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mham001
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:16 pm

777222LR wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
777222LR wrote:
I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.

'
Except AFAIK Chinese and Russians are the two nationalities that dominate birth tourism statistics.

In Chinese community in US (Especially Hawaii and LA) there's a whole vertically integrated industry dedicated for Chinese women to give birth in US. Saipan is another place where birth tourism is heavy as mainland Chinese nationals doesn't need visa to visit NMI.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/chi ... index.html

Oh...and before people blame Trump on trying to create a "White United States", the feds already try to crack things down back in 2015:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/us/m ... index.html

So-call "anchor baby" and birth tourism are two different things.



Have you ever heard someone such as Steven Miller, Donald Trump, or an American administration be so overtly racist and/or racially critical and vocal about it in recent memory?


We have every right to have the discussion about how to shape the future of the country. If we decide we don't like the Russian influence of too many immigrants (don't Democrats continually tell us they are eevil???), we can do that. We can do that about Central Americans too - yes, even if they are "brown". Every other country does and so can the US. Get used to it.
 
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Tugger
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:35 pm

I do agree that we need to actually better manage US immigration. It shouldn't just be a free-for-all and reducing "birth tourism" is perfectly acceptable. Why is it that big a deal? In reality it impacts mostly wealthy people that are passport shopping for their babies. It's not not like the US is obligated to give visa's for any reason people want. There can and should be conditions and passport/citizenship shopping isn't really a strong case.

Even the idea of reducing immigration that will be a burden on the US is something we should be OK with. For I don't know how long, it has been (was?) a requirement that green card holders needed sponsors how basically guaranteed that for something like 7 years the holders would not be a burden. I am OK with that and support that. However I will also state that I the US should allow more immigration and not cut back on it. Make the rules, enforce them, but allow immigration at a higher level following those rules. Immigration is a strong, dynamic engine for the nation and economy and should not constrained due to "culture" fears etc. Bring them on, and let them follow the rules, and let them work hard to earn the right to be a citizens at some point.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
StarAC17
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:04 pm

gokmengs wrote:
Interesting, but to play devils advocate to the supporters of this new restriction, most people I know that did this, and I know tens of them 100% of them came back to their respective motherland after getting the US passport for their child. Most are wealthy individuals (its not cheap to accomplish this) but they want the freedom of the US passport for travel purposes and the peace of mind that if it all goes sour in their respective countries their kids have USA to move to. Now what if any social benefits do these individuals get from USA? Probably next to nothing, and in fear of IRS they pay some taxes every year. Granted Its much easier to hide income in their own country and they are wealthy but they report some income and pay taxes. For those I'm talking about the US is a clear winner. However I'm not sure what percentage of the said Birth Tourism citizens fall in the category I just described. As a dual citizen I wanted to share my opinion. I'm sure I might be missing some angles that proves otherwise, and I'd like to hear them.


ThePointblank wrote:
This is also a problem in Canada as well:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/birth-to ... -1.5413296

As noted in this story, at least one hospital in Richmond, BC has about 1/4 of their births born to non-residents, some of which skip out on paying their hospital bills, which already adds to the strain on the healthcare system, on top of the compromised care for residents.


My cousin who inherited Canadian citizenship from her mother who did go to school and work here from Jamaica in the 70's plans to do this My Aunt earned Canadian citizenship, her kids did not.

They are rich and life a life in Jamaica that we don't in Canada and my direct family and myself are actually doing quite well and have minimal money problems. I am by no means conservative at all but am pissed that they want this for the Canadian passport as they live the life in paradise 12 months of the year. The ease of travel is one thing but when a hurricane hits Jamaica which will happen again then they might ask the Canadian government for help which we have to give to get Canadian citizens out. I support this right when the parents are actually in the country legally or in the case of something like DACA where the kids didn't make the decision to live in the country illegally and shouldn't be punished for it. I do think birthright citizenship should exist for people in those cases but not for birth tourism

This happened in 2006 when Israel and Lebanon got into a conflict. All of the Canadian citizens in Lebanon wanted the Canadian government to get them out and when it settled down they all went back.

777222LR wrote:
I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.


Exactly!! Having a debate about birthright citizenship in one thing but I think it is almost a certainty that white people will still be able to be permitted to do birth tourism.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
jetwet1
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Re: US issues new rules restricting travel by pregnant foreigners, fearing the use of 'birth tourism'

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:22 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
777222LR wrote:
I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot see that this, along with the muslim ban, the wall, and Trump/Steven Miller's very own language, overall, exhibits the stance that we just don't like "brown" people? I mean, you can dress up a pig any way you want, but end the end, it's still a pig. It's like this administration held on to the nonsensical anti-muslim/anti-foreigner sentiment that escalated shortly after 9/11 20 years ago, and never let go of it. They've taken every bit of uneducated, unfounded fears, embraced them, and turned them into policy. The regression is a nightmare.

'
Except AFAIK Chinese and Russians are the two nationalities that dominate birth tourism statistics.

In Chinese community in US (Especially Hawaii and LA) there's a whole vertically integrated industry dedicated for Chinese women to give birth in US. Saipan is another place where birth tourism is heavy as mainland Chinese nationals doesn't need visa to visit NMI.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/asia/chi ... index.html

Oh...and before people blame Trump on trying to create a "White United States", the feds already try to crack things down back in 2015:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/us/m ... index.html

So-call "anchor baby" and birth tourism are two different things.


A little story and let me be clear, I am no fan of Trump.

A friend of mine, we shall call him Ken works in immigration at LAX, probably once a month when i'm passing through TBIT I swing up to the secondary screening to say hi. I've been doing this since he transferred there back in 2012.

Each time I go there there is between 40-50 sitting around waiting, out of those probably a quarter of them are Chinese couples with a very pregnant wife. The immigration officers I have overheard make it very clear, they are going back on the next flight, remember, this I have witnessed for 8 years, so no, this isn't a Trump thing, this has been going on for years, but every now and again it makes the news.

aklrno wrote:
I'm still trying to understand the tax implications for a wealthy family getting US citizenship for their child. Last I checked, US citizens owe US income tax on their world-wide income no matter where they reside. Is this true for dual citizens, which is what those birth tourism babies will be? Some day they will start to earn money and probably not pay income taxes. If they travel to the US are they then arrested for tax evasion? Makes that US passport a really bad idea. Am I missing something?


Basic rules are, spend 330 days outside of the US, if you are in the US or US airspace for even a minute it counts as a day, the 330 days do not have to be continuous. No matter what you still have to file, however you will be able to claim income exclusions and/or foreign income tax credits which will cover the first $105,900 of your income. If you are paying taxes in the country you are living in, ....... Oh hell I just spent 30 minutes trying to explain the convoluted scheme for dealing with foreign taxes, the easy way is plug the numbers into Turbotax. In some cases you're better of taking the exclusion, in others the credit....But if you are making less than $105,900 you don't even have to think about it, just file.

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