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CaptHadley
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High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:09 am

It seems like malls are going out of style as people buy more stuff on the internet
http://www.startribune.com/galleria-in- ... 567265172/
 
Airstud
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Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:11 am

Yeah there's like eleven stores there. (Plus my optometrist.)

I think the people who shopped there twenty years ago now shop in Dubai.
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TSS
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:16 am

Lots of malls all across the USA, many relatively new, are closed and for sale.

These guys explore abandoned buildings, malls among them- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheProperPeople
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ltbewr
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:48 pm

I live in northern New Jersey not far from several major malls and one of the biggest retail locations in the USA (Paramus). I have seen the evolution of some malls, the closing of others and a lot more closed and empty strip mall and in-town stores. There is no doubt that many shopping malls are dying off due to a number of factors. No doubt the growth in on-line shopping for selection, pricing, convenience have been one of the biggest factors.

One area not noted enough has been the flat and declining incomes of middle class persons who were the main visitors to and shoppers at malls. That is compounded by debt (in particular student loan and mortgages), higher housing and medical care costs, spending on computers, smartphones and their service contracts, costly home internet, phone and TV services.

I also think that over time we dress more casually in our workplaces and in general, there are fewer changes or cycles in clothing styles, so less need to shop for clothing and shoes, the bulk of in stores in malls.

Many have shifted their clothing purchases to 'big box' stores like TJ Maxx which seem to be much better at watching trends and buying product.

Malls also used to be a place of 'hanging out', shopping a form of entertainment but many malls for 'security' have cracked down on teens 'hanging out' and we have more entertainment options at home or on our cellphones now.

Malls also tend to have most of their business, outside of the late November to early January period, on Friday nights, Saturdays and Sundays, so still have the expense of operating the mall with little revenues.

Too many malls were put up in certain markets. Over-investing and 'flipping' of mall properties, higher rents from that has also led to more failing and along with much higher labor costs with many states having higher minimum wages may mean more retailers cannot make enough money with such expenses.

Where I do see growth is with mixed revision of malls of smaller proportion of retail and more education facilities, government and private offices, medical and other professional services, entertainment (movie theaters) and restaurants. The have plenty of parking, many have bus or other transit services to/from them, are close to major highways so can work well being repurposed.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:50 pm

The size of the issue becomes clear when comparing the square footage of retail space available for lease, both used and unused, per person in the US to other countries. In 2015—the most recent year with comparable data available—the US had about 23.6 sq ft of retail space per person available, according to estimates from PwC. As the Financial Times reported (paywall), that’s more than twice the amount in Australia, and roughly five times that of the UK and other European countries.
https://qz.com/1032723/theres-much-more ... ita-level/

The widespread closing of malls is only exacerbated by on line shopping. We had simply too much retail space. This even exists on the smallest scale. Codes require retail space on the ground floors of cities and major bus lines. Way too much, they are either filled with short lived struggling businesses or simply left empty. Next to our semi-high rise condo a 12 year old never used retail space is finally being re-invented as long term hotel space.
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SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:11 pm

The US compared to other western countries overbuilt retailing structures. We have about 30% overcapacity in retailing square footage by comparison. Also, in the past two decades venture capital companies found a lucrative niche in buying old school, storied, retailers and loading them up with debt. Retailing had a conservative business model. Virtually all of the retailing failures recently are because of this tremendous debt burden added to their overhead. These vultures mortgaged off literally everything, including the logos and brand names in many instances.

Remember, almost 90% of all purchases are still made at brick and mortar / in store. Only 10% - 12% are made online, but it is a growing and thriving channel. But e-Commerce and the build out of it, is expensive. So these retailers that have been around for decades or even over a century, were loaded up with debt, so had no money left over to invest in their e-Commerce channel, much less face the added competition that other, newer, e-retailers created for them, because these newer companies didn’t have the legacy cost structures holding them back.

It’s easy to hate on Amazon and other newer entrants but they aren’t the core reason so many retailers are closing or going bankrupt. Place the blame where it belongs....to the jerkoffs who stripped the companies of everything, screwed the employees and their pensions / benefits, so a handful / couple dozen sharks like Mitt Romney and other vulture capitalists could get even richer.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/04/ ... lures.aspx
 
Brick
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:20 pm

So a mall is up for sale and there is no indication anything will change with the property, but "Could Mean Big Changes" in the headline is pure click bait.
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zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: High end mall for sale

Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:53 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The widespread closing of malls is only exacerbated by on line shopping. We had simply too much retail space. This even exists on the smallest scale. Codes require retail space on the ground floors of cities and major bus lines. Way too much, they are either filled with short lived struggling businesses or simply left empty. Next to our semi-high rise condo a 12 year old never used retail space is finally being re-invented as long term hotel space.


Since this is also a problem where I live...I'll throw in another 2 cents - despite the retail spaces often being empty, the property developers refused to even lower rent, still only want to chase certain "demographics" they're looking for, while those spaces sit empty as an eyesore.

ltbewr wrote:
One area not noted enough has been the flat and declining incomes of middle class persons who were the main visitors to and shoppers at malls. That is compounded by debt (in particular student loan and mortgages), higher housing and medical care costs, spending on computers, smartphones and their service contracts, costly home internet, phone and TV services.

I also think that over time we dress more casually in our workplaces and in general, there are fewer changes or cycles in clothing styles, so less need to shop for clothing and shoes, the bulk of in stores in malls.

Many have shifted their clothing purchases to 'big box' stores like TJ Maxx which seem to be much better at watching trends and buying product.


There's also the fast fashion retailers also. Those killed off both department stores AND numerous "brands" that were popular (i.e. the like of A&F). Again, fast fashion can keep up with trends easily with their model, but not so much traditional retailers.

The retail apocalypse is real anyway.
 
johns624
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:15 am

TSS wrote:
stl07 wrote:
A mall thread not made by archguy? :stirthepot:


There's no history, or even "history", in malls nor do any that I'm aware of offer observation decks.
The observation deck would be too low to see past the end of the huge parking lots...
 
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Aesma
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Re: High end mall for sale

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:55 am

Where I live they built a mall a few years ago, right next to an existing one. You can even drive from one to the other underground, as their parking garages are linked. Inside, plenty of shops that were also available in the other mall, totally ridiculous. In the end some spaces were never used, others were and then the shops closed... The only space that is still run by the same brand is McDonald's, and yes, there is one a couple hundreds meters away in the other mall.

And the large cinema (16 screens), that is basically the reason d'être of the building.

Personally I hate shopping so I only use the cinema and the grocery store...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
FatCat
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Re: High end mall for sale

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:35 am

TSS wrote:
Lots of malls all across the USA, many relatively new, are closed and for sale.

These guys explore abandoned buildings, malls among them- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheProperPeople

Also check ThisIsDanBell YT channel. His Dead Mall Series is addicting
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SCQ83
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Re: High end mall for sale

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:02 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Many have shifted their clothing purchases to 'big box' stores like TJ Maxx which seem to be much better at watching trends and buying product.


Brick-and-mortar retail has became a rip-off as nowadays most clothing companies are owned by hedge funds looking for the biggest profit. Buying something in China for USD 5 and selling it in a high-street in Boston or Paris for USD/EUR 100 doesn't make any sense anymore.

For instance Primark in Europe is a blast (no matter where you go it is always CROWDED; it is like the IKEA of clothing). They don't even sell online. You can read experts saying Primark is successful because of lower purchasing power in Europe so people is looking for bargains (true), but I also think that it is because quality is not that different that brands that might cost 10 times more.

Back in the day, if you spent 300 euros or dollars in a coat or 100 in some trousers, you expected some quality. Today it can be some artificial, bad-quality Made in China stuff almost comparable to anything purchased in Primark.

SanDiegoLover wrote:
The US compared to other western countries overbuilt retailing structures. We have about 30% overcapacity in retailing square footage by comparison.


I reckon sqft per person is still higher in the US, but Europe has built tons of malls over the last decade. Even today there are plenty of new malls under construction in France, Germany, Italy, Spain and not to mention Eastern Europe. It really amazes me.
 
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WesternDC6B
Posts: 575
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: High end mall for sale

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:41 pm

Indoor malls have become hangouts for gangs and others who threaten or harass the customers. Courts have said that these privately owned facilities constitute “the public square”, so the harassers have a right to be there. The newer malls being built are mostly outdoor kinds, with no common, climate-controlled corridor. The little darlings thus don’t have a climate-controlled place to exercise their rights;they must do it in the cold, the rain, the snow, or the summer heat.

I think another thing killing off the malls in general: many of the stores offer things for sale that I could not, in my wildest imagination, find a need or desire to buy. Fashions I’d not be caught dead in, gift items I won’t give and do not want.

Finally, add in a healthy dose of non-existent or indifferent personnel, and you have the recipe for failure.
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