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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 12:30 am

Aesma wrote:
About fishing and my country, France, sure it's not big economically, just as it's not big in the UK, but there is still a significant difference : we actually eat the fish, and crustaceans, and molluscs...


It's just incredible how FISH took such an importance in the Brexit process.
I mean the British doesn't even eat the fish caught n UK waters... What do they (A101) want us to believe ? That they are ready to change their consumption overnight ? )
ROTFL,
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 12:43 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
About fishing and my country, France, sure it's not big economically, just as it's not big in the UK, but there is still a significant difference : we actually eat the fish, and crustaceans, and molluscs...


It's just incredible how FISH took such an importance in the Brexit process.
I mean the British doesn't even eat the fish caught n UK waters... What do they (A101) want us to believe ? That they are ready to change their consumption overnight ? )
ROTFL,


Nothing about changing UK consumption but the right of a sovereign nation to control its own waters on our own terms ie access and quotas
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 12:58 am

They better start buying a lot more Nissans too !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 1:08 am

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A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 1:22 am

Aesma wrote:
They better start buying a lot more Nissans too !


I imagine that if they are substantialy cheaper than from elsewhere than sales will rise
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 6:58 am

Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 7:10 am

A101 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
About fishing and my country, France, sure it's not big economically, just as it's not big in the UK, but there is still a significant difference : we actually eat the fish, and crustaceans, and molluscs...


It's just incredible how FISH took such an importance in the Brexit process.
I mean the British doesn't even eat the fish caught n UK waters... What do they (A101) want us to believe ? That they are ready to change their consumption overnight ? )
ROTFL,


Nothing about changing UK consumption but the right of a sovereign nation to control its own waters on our own terms ie access and quotas


Yes, you have the right and other much larger trading blocks have the right to react to that. And so we are back at the beginning again.

It all boils down to what the UK is willing to do in exchange to some of the EU perks. If it is none, then you get none.
Brexiteers attitude is: we want to cherry-pick and that is over, Brexit means Brexit. Your choice, your consequences.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
AeroVega
Posts: 273
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 7:16 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 7:24 am

AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Ah great, so no problem then. I am sure the UK will be a very attractive place to go to, I mean all the people whom have left and going to leave must be wrong. But than again, you might be right that living in the UK might be better than living in Hong Kong under Chinese dictatorship.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 7:50 am

EU walks away from negotiations?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... t-deadline

It might come as a surprise for express and its readers while express has one of the main driver of pushing the UK position...
Last edited by olle on Sun May 31, 2020 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 7:52 am

AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Sometimes the way history takes a sudden turn just make Brexit look increasinly out-of-sync, doesn't it?

- Take back control over European immigration, only to (have to) open up the gates to millions of Asians from an ex-colony in the same year.

- Set fail for a Global Britain, right at a moment when economic protectionism and the importance of self-control over supply chains becomes obvious (COVID 19).

- Leave the SM and become a simple rule taker, right when it is about to embark on its biggest and most powerful transformation in decades (green deal, EC issued bonds, global reach, ...)
Last edited by sabenapilot on Sun May 31, 2020 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
olle
Posts: 2026
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 7:56 am

sabenapilot wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Sometimes the way history takes a sudden turn just make Brexit look increasinly out-of-sync, doesn't it?

- Take back control of European immigration, only to open up the gates to millions of Asians in the same year.

- Set fail for a Global Britain, right at a moment when economic protectionism and the importance of self-control over supply chains becomes obvious (COVID 19).

- Leave the SM and become a simple rule taker, right when it is about to embark on its biggest and most powerful transformation in decades (green deal, EC issued bonds, global reach, ...)



Special while global brittain was about to increase trade with nations like china.
 
A101
Posts: 1951
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:01 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


I would not really call it a brain drain when you take into account that ECMWF is a independent intergovernmental organisation not under the auspice of the EU, those employed are from across all member nations and outside the EU.

Moving functions away from the UK was a given as a new super computer was needed to replace the one at Reading. its been on the cards since they published their strategy paper out to 2025(in 2016). but it would be naïve of me not to think that Brexit contributed to some of the decisions to relocate as majority of members are also part of the EU.
Last edited by A101 on Sun May 31, 2020 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:05 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:

It's just incredible how FISH took such an importance in the Brexit process.
I mean the British doesn't even eat the fish caught n UK waters... What do they (A101) want us to believe ? That they are ready to change their consumption overnight ? )
ROTFL,


Nothing about changing UK consumption but the right of a sovereign nation to control its own waters on our own terms ie access and quotas


Yes, you have the right and other much larger trading blocks have the right to react to that. And so we are back at the beginning again.

It all boils down to what the UK is willing to do in exchange to some of the EU perks. If it is none, then you get none.
Brexiteers attitude is: we want to cherry-pick and that is over, Brexit means Brexit. Your choice, your consequences.


What the EU wants is the CFP in all but name, and you say we are cherry picking :rotfl:
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:21 am

olle wrote:
Special while global brittain was about to increase trade with nations like china.


COVID-19 seems to be the wrecking ball of the whole idea to make a success of Brexit:

it has moved the topic which dominated the global political agenda for much of the second half of the past decade radically to the very back end of even the EU Counsel meetings and suddenly made it more of a past annoyance than a future problem; bye bye to that generous, advantageous and bespoke trade deal with the EU: you'll see the EU become quite firm with this third country next door which is overrating its own importance and cut this Brexit nonsense short in the coming weeks.

it has pulled the rug from under the feet of the quick trade deal with the US too, with minds in Washington now focussed on domestic issues ann any case the likelihood of Brexit-fond President Trump to still be in office in just 9 months from now is questionable... Britain might be send to the back of the queue again under President-elect Biden, by fall already!

the hopes to court the PRC and focus on the emerging economic superpower of the 21st century will not get very far either if Britain is to live up to its solemn promisses towards the millions of people in HK and wants to assert itself as a world power still. Will be interesting to watch how the UK behaves if the PRC basically rips apart all the promisses it made to the UK in the handover treaty of Hong Kong... Will BoJo speek up and put his money where his mouth is, or is the grandstanding about sovereignty and diplomatic equality just reserved for talks with Brussels?
Play time is almost over with Brussels too (see above).
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:27 am

Dutchy wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Ah great, so no problem then. I am sure the UK will be a very attractive place to go to, I mean all the people whom have left and going to leave must be wrong. But than again, you might be right that living in the UK might be better than living in Hong Kong under Chinese dictatorship.


Good grief; cant be as bad as you make out apparently 3.4 million EU residents have applied for the EU settlement scheme. You make it sound like that all those who voted to remain will head for the EU member nation, I think a bit of realty check is needed in some of the things you say :coffee:
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:31 am

A101 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


I would not really call it a brain drain when you take into account that ECMWF is a independent intergovernmental organisation not under the auspice of the EU, those employed are from across all member nations and outside the EU.

Moving functions away from the UK was a given as a new super computer was needed to replace the one at Reading. its been on the cards since they published their strategy paper out to 2025. but it would be naïve of me not to think that Brexit contributed to some of the decisions to relocate as majority of members are also part of the EU.


This has noting to do with the additional super computer built in Bologna, A101: that was just a technical project, whereas this one is purely political.

The ECMWF is not an EU agency indeed and so initially Brexit was not to have influence on its continued functioning from the UK, but since the ECMWF is the entrusted entity for the EU's Copernicus programme, it needs to comply with EU law, meaning there needs to be unquestioned European oversight and jurisdiction on its daily operations.
As the UK increasingly distances itself from any EU rules and signals it does not want to guarantee maintaining even the current levels of protection of data in future, the EU memberstates of ECMWF have together decided to jointly insist on a relocation to EU territory.

As such, the type of Brexit persued by the UK government very much killed off Reading... welcome to Toulouse, France or Vienna, Austria ECMWF (and not Bologna, proving the 2 are moves are indeed not linked).

Besides, A101, should the UK not renounce on its membership of the ECMWF too?
I mean, people voted for Brexit and allegedly knew it was not just about the political union in the EU, so it should be included, just as other non-EU organisations like EEA, EASA, EAEC, ECHR etc were picked off afterwards by Brexiteers, Maybe somebody just forgot about Reading, UK... but clearly the EU didn't: OUT is OUT indeed, and there will be consequences. ;)
Last edited by sabenapilot on Sun May 31, 2020 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AeroVega
Posts: 273
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am

Dutchy wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Ah great, so no problem then. I am sure the UK will be a very attractive place to go to, I mean all the people whom have left and going to leave must be wrong. But than again, you might be right that living in the UK might be better than living in Hong Kong under Chinese dictatorship.


Absolutely. The UK is a very attractive country to emigrate to for 10s if not 100s of millions of people living in the former British empire.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:54 am

sabenapilot wrote:
A101 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


I would not really call it a brain drain when you take into account that ECMWF is a independent intergovernmental organisation not under the auspice of the EU, those employed are from across all member nations and outside the EU.

Moving functions away from the UK was a given as a new super computer was needed to replace the one at Reading. its been on the cards since they published their strategy paper out to 2025. but it would be naïve of me not to think that Brexit contributed to some of the decisions to relocate as majority of members are also part of the EU.


This has noting to do with the additional super computer built in Bologna, A101: that was just a technical project, whereas this one is purely political.

The ECMWF is not an EU agency indeed and so initially Brexit was not to have influence on its continued functioning from the UK, but since the ECMWF is the designated organisation for several high profile EU and EEA climate initiatives, it needs to comply with EU law, meaning there needs to be unquestioned European oversight and jurisdiction on its daily operations.
As the UK increasingly distances itself from any EU rules and signals it does not want to guarantee maintaining even the current levels of protection of data in future, the EU memberstates of ECMWF have together decided to jointly insist on a relocation to EU territory.

As such, the type of Brexit persued by the UK government very much killed off Reading... welcome to Toulouse, France or Vienna, Austria ECMWF (and not Bologna, proving the 2 are moves are indeed not linked).


I believe you are overstating the oversight jurisdiction in regards to the ECMWF, certainly the parts that matter to the EU in regards to Copernicus will have EU oversight and certainly not under ECJ for any disputes . but from the ECMWF website say

ECMWF is an intergovernmental organisation and not directly bound by any law outside of the provisions enacted by its organs or agreements it enters
&
In the event of a dispute arising in connection with this License, the parties shall attempt to settle their differences in an amicable manner. If any dispute cannot be so settled, it shall be settled under the Rules of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:54 am

I'm sure people are already jumping of joy in the North to welcome all these British nationals into their communities. ;)

All the newly elected Conservative MPs from the region are probaby looking for a Tory spin doctor to help them explain this one to their constituencies right now.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 8:58 am

A101 wrote:
I believe you are overstating the oversight jurisdiction in regards to the ECMWF, certainly the parts that matter to the EU in regards to Copernicus will have EU oversight and certainly not under ECJ for any disputes . but from the ECMWF website say

ECMWF is an intergovernmental organisation and not directly bound by any law outside of the provisions enacted by its organs or agreements it enters
&
In the event of a dispute arising in connection with this License, the parties shall attempt to settle their differences in an amicable manner. If any dispute cannot be so settled, it shall be settled under the Rules of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce


As said, it's not the ECMWF matters itself that are the problem, it's the fact the ECMWF is the entrusted entity for the European Union's Copernicus Programme: That needs to be conducted under full EC and ECJ oversight and that can not be guaranteed to be the case is it is done by a non-EU organization, in a non-EU memberstate, who does not want to formally guarantee that it will respect EU law in future. the EC as well as the EU members of the ECMWF simply do not want to take the risk given Britain's track record on breaking its promisses (see the back peddling on the political declaration), so they jointly forced through this surpise move.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 9:28 am

sabenapilot wrote:
I'm sure people are already jumping of joy in the North to welcome all these British nationals into their communities. ;)

All the newly elected Conservative MPs from the region are probaby looking for a Tory spin doctor to help them explain this one to their constituencies right now.



Don't need any spin its a human rights matter for those that hold a BN(O) passport I think there would be a bigger out cry if we didn't help those about to be oppressed by the Chinese government don't you
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 11:49 am

A101 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
I'm sure people are already jumping of joy in the North to welcome all these British nationals into their communities. ;)

All the newly elected Conservative MPs from the region are probaby looking for a Tory spin doctor to help them explain this one to their constituencies right now.



Don't need any spin its a human rights matter for those that hold a BN(O) passport I think there would be a bigger out cry if we didn't help those about to be oppressed by the Chinese government don't you


No spinning at all, A101.

Seeing the huge economic costs taking back control over EU immigration (which runs in the tens of thousand net only) will cause for the UK, it's impressive to read how almost simultaneously ten to hundred times more foreign immigrants might be invited to come over: very humane act indeed and kudos to the UK for opening up its gates to Chinese citizens in a way even Angela Merkel didn't do at the hight of the Syrian conflict, despite first throwing away billions in economic growth annually to limit far lesser immigration numbers from fellow European countries.

Just wondering if the 17.4 million people who forced the British government in 2016 to focus on cutting immigration numbers by all possible means, are as generous towards BNO passport horders than those they now put in power?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 3:44 pm

Three million people from Hong Kong could bring a lot of strengths to the UK economy. UK becomes even more international. Does anyone have any data on the education, work history, medical status of those three million? I suspect those people 'coming back' to the UK might be an impressive bunch.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 4:23 pm

AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Isn't HK's expertise finance, of which you already have too many people in the UK ?

BTW, I await to see how the UK government justifies this just after having touted its new tough immigration rules...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 5:56 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
A101 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
I'm sure people are already jumping of joy in the North to welcome all these British nationals into their communities. ;)

All the newly elected Conservative MPs from the region are probaby looking for a Tory spin doctor to help them explain this one to their constituencies right now.



Don't need any spin its a human rights matter for those that hold a BN(O) passport I think there would be a bigger out cry if we didn't help those about to be oppressed by the Chinese government don't you


No spinning at all, A101.

Seeing the huge economic costs taking back control over EU immigration (which runs in the tens of thousand net only) will cause for the UK, it's impressive to read how almost simultaneously ten to hundred times more foreign immigrants might be invited to come over: very humane act indeed and kudos to the UK for opening up its gates to Chinese citizens in a way even Angela Merkel didn't do at the hight of the Syrian conflict, despite first throwing away billions in economic growth annually to limit far lesser immigration numbers from fellow European countries.

Just wondering if the 17.4 million people who forced the British government in 2016 to focus on cutting immigration numbers by all possible means, are as generous towards BNO passport horders than those they now put in power?



1st off those BN(O) have to get to the UK on there own means, 2nd under the law they are recognised British nationals (not citizens) they have to clear the usual border controls to get in the UK unlike EU residents under free movement and 3rd for most people immigration was directed at controlling who came to the UK and under what conditions and giving back that power to the UK government it certainly wasn’t about stoppping people from immigrating to the UK but controlled immigration and 4th most will recognise its a human rights issue from a repressive government regime
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sun May 31, 2020 6:19 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Three million people from Hong Kong could bring a lot of strengths to the UK economy. UK becomes even more international. Does anyone have any data on the education, work history, medical status of those three million?


Sure, no problem, what is your e-mail address so I can send it through wetranfer :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:19 am

Apparently Mr Barnier has threatened to walk away from the trade talks unless the UK bends to the EU will, please close the door behind you when you leave the room please :wave:
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:40 am

A101 wrote:
Apparently Mr Barnier has threatened to walk away from the trade talks unless the UK bends to the EU will, please close the door behind you when you leave the room please :wave:



I think this is the only way forward. After that when both sides has calmed down we can start with a FTA that will be ready within the normal 6-8 years or around 2030.
 
A101
Posts: 1951
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:12 am

olle wrote:
A101 wrote:
Apparently Mr Barnier has threatened to walk away from the trade talks unless the UK bends to the EU will, please close the door behind you when you leave the room please :wave:



I think this is the only way forward. After that when both sides has calmed down we can start with a FTA that will be ready within the normal 6-8 years or around 2030.




Agreed, that will likely coincide with another pro-Eu UK PM
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:25 am

A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
A101 wrote:
Apparently Mr Barnier has threatened to walk away from the trade talks unless the UK bends to the EU will, please close the door behind you when you leave the room please :wave:



I think this is the only way forward. After that when both sides has calmed down we can start with a FTA that will be ready within the normal 6-8 years or around 2030.




Agreed, that will likely coincide with another pro-Eu UK PM


Look we are in agreement :lol:

The UK has no climate to give in, so there is no deal to be made. You have convinced me of that fact, even though it is the ultimate lose-lose why of doing things. We will see you in ten years is whatever is left of the UK by than.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 1951
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:03 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
olle wrote:


I think this is the only way forward. After that when both sides has calmed down we can start with a FTA that will be ready within the normal 6-8 years or around 2030.




Agreed, that will likely coincide with another pro-Eu UK PM


Look we are in agreement :lol:

The UK has no climate to give in, so there is no deal to be made. You have convinced me of that fact, even though it is the ultimate lose-lose why of doing things. We will see you in ten years is whatever is left of the UK by than.



That also goes for the EU, there’s a lot of doom and gloom reporting on the EU if it can ride out the current crisis plus Germany’s constitutional court in early May disputed the legitimacy of the European Central Bank’s sovereign bond purchases program, that’s going to be an interesting one to watch as the ruling challenges the authority of the European Court of Justice as the ultimate arbiter in the bloc


Interesting times ahead for the EU.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:42 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:



Agreed, that will likely coincide with another pro-Eu UK PM


Look we are in agreement :lol:

The UK has no climate to give in, so there is no deal to be made. You have convinced me of that fact, even though it is the ultimate lose-lose why of doing things. We will see you in ten years is whatever is left of the UK by than.



That also goes for the EU, there’s a lot of doom and gloom reporting on the EU if it can ride out the current crisis plus Germany’s constitutional court in early May disputed the legitimacy of the European Central Bank’s sovereign bond purchases program, that’s going to be an interesting one to watch as the ruling challenges the authority of the European Court of Justice as the ultimate arbiter in the bloc


Interesting times ahead for the EU.


Whatever makes you tick. It is off-topic, if you want to talk about the EU, fine, it is free to make another thread about it and I will comment on your notion and why it is wrong.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:01 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:



Agreed, that will likely coincide with another pro-Eu UK PM


Look we are in agreement :lol:

The UK has no climate to give in, so there is no deal to be made. You have convinced me of that fact, even though it is the ultimate lose-lose why of doing things. We will see you in ten years is whatever is left of the UK by than.



That also goes for the EU, there’s a lot of doom and gloom reporting on the EU if it can ride out the current crisis plus Germany’s constitutional court in early May disputed the legitimacy of the European Central Bank’s sovereign bond purchases program, that’s going to be an interesting one to watch as the ruling challenges the authority of the European Court of Justice as the ultimate arbiter in the bloc


Interesting times ahead for the EU.


I think that both EU and PM / Presidents form South part of Europe has an activity to sell more EU to northern Europe. I can imagine that in many countries like my own Sweden who is already paying a lot, much more per person then UK ever did, there will soon be a negative discuss why more shall be paid.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:46 am

We are actually heading for the worse economical crisis / environment since 1930s. A lot of holy cows like the one in Northern Europe not to accept EU debt will need to be sacrificed in the process if the northern Europe shall not be bad hit.

Countries like Germany and Sweden start to realize that we will not be able to walk away from this crisis like at least Sweden did 2008, but will suffer from lost markets in the south, if they are not saved.

For countries like Italy more debt is impossible. We will have a greek crisis making the real greek crisis looking like a summer wind. EU has shown that under crisis things happens, and I assume the same thing will happen this time.

But the latin countries need to understand how the protestantic north works. The people need to be convinced, educated and informed to understand this. It is not PM to PM discussion only.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:37 am

A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
A101 wrote:
Apparently Mr Barnier has threatened to walk away from the trade talks unless the UK bends to the EU will, please close the door behind you when you leave the room please :wave:



I think this is the only way forward. After that when both sides has calmed down we can start with a FTA that will be ready within the normal 6-8 years or around 2030.




Agreed, that will likely coincide with another pro-Eu UK PM


The UK EU ambassador, did he not quit because he said that it will take 6-8 years for an FTA?

This is classical "project fear" if we shall follow the description from 2016.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:41 pm

I was reading an article about how the European External Action Service (EEAS) doesn't work. It's basically the EU foreign ministry. One complaint was that it was full of Belgians for some reason.

The EEAS explained that all these Belgians were UK diplomats who had taken Belgian citizenship...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:52 pm

Aesma wrote:
I was reading an article about how the European External Action Service (EEAS) doesn't work. It's basically the EU foreign ministry. One complaint was that it was full of Belgians for some reason.

The EEAS explained that all these Belgians were UK diplomats who had taken Belgian citizenship...




I’m not sure what that has to do with Brexit, I too read that article.

But it seems to me you are making a generalisation about the competence of diplomats of UK origin,when the EEAS has more underlying problems other than the origin of some diplomats which were brought up in the article.

The bias that resonates within this thread is astounding
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:41 pm

A101 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I was reading an article about how the European External Action Service (EEAS) doesn't work. It's basically the EU foreign ministry. One complaint was that it was full of Belgians for some reason.

The EEAS explained that all these Belgians were UK diplomats who had taken Belgian citizenship...




I’m not sure what that has to do with Brexit, I too read that article.

But it seems to me you are making a generalisation about the competence of diplomats of UK origin,when the EEAS has more underlying problems other than the origin of some diplomats which were brought up in the article.

The bias that resonates within this thread is astounding


Yes, you are right, the bias of Brexiteers is astonishing.

The EEAS is not really working because of all the countries are independent and the EU has nothing to say about the foreign policy of its member states. Just proves one of the lies of Breixteers: the EU isn't all-powerful and member states are fully independent.

You a reading into things, which I absolutely do not subscribe to. The only thing I see is that UK diplomates wanted to stay in Brussels and thus en mass took an EU passport. To lent you a hand, these UK citizens were very much pro-EU, otherwise, you are not going to work for this institution. So these are not the average citizen.

The UK diplomatic service is top nouche, except for dealing with FTA because they haven't done it in 40plus years, so they do not have any experience within the service and that takes time to rebuild that experience again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:59 pm

Yes that's what I meant, we know where the UK diplomats are, they're now Belgians !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:03 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The UK diplomatic service is top nouche, except for dealing with FTA because they haven't done it in 40plus years, so they do not have any experience within the service and that takes time to rebuild that experience again.

But even if they had that, they still wouldn't be able to fetch all those unicorns BoJo had promised to his voters. Elections matter in that way, too!

Meanwhile in the real world, the EU Parliament has reconfirmed the unavailability of any unicorns to the UK:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ument-says
EU has no legal duty to give UK trade privileges, document says


And this and many other related news only underscores how blatant the lies of the Brexit pushers about the EU have been: Of course there aren't "unaccountable bureaucrats" running the show in the EU, but the Commission is very much accountable to and dependent on elected national governments and elected MEPs who are absolutely accountable to their voters!

Part of the tragedy of Brexit is and was that large parts of the UK media and the UK political scene actively prevented the UK population from learning any actual facts about the actual, real European Union because the absurd caricature they were pushing appeared to be so much more convenient for themselves, always having a perfect scapegoat for their own lies and incompetence.

The problem now is that the incompetence of the UK leadership is increasingly obvious now on its own due to unforeseen circumstances while at the same time their promises on Brexit keep falling apart in contact with the actual, real European Union simultaneously.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:42 am

AeroVega wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the brain drain from the UK continues to take pace.

This time, it's the ECMWF -better knownby its location name of 'Reading' outside the world of meteorology- which is looking for a new home.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ased-in-uk


Not to worry, there is an enormous pool of brain power waiting in reserve in Hong Kong.

Three million Hong Kong residents 'eligible' for UK citizenship


Nationals, but not citizens. Probably the most meaningless use of the term “national” ever.

Anyway, the usual anti-immigration Brexit types don’t want them, “British” or not. Guess they aren’t “British” enough. The whole thing sounds like a bad joke.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... kong-offer

Anyway, the numbers tell the tale. There are more Hong Kong origin folk in Canada (600,000+) and the US (300,000+) than there are in the UK (145,000). If they leave Hong Kong, worry not Brexiteers. They’ll be heading for Canada and the US. Guess they know where they don’t belong, “British national” or otherwise.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2004
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:13 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Three million people from Hong Kong could bring a lot of strengths to the UK economy. UK becomes even more international. Does anyone have any data on the education, work history, medical status of those three million? I suspect those people 'coming back' to the UK might be an impressive bunch.


The high net worth folk / high skilled labour you’re referring to are already spread out across North America (600,000+ in Canada, 300,000+ in the US), as are their networks. The UK, by comparison, accounts for only a fraction of the HK diaspora (145,000 according to Wiki).

If the remaining high net worth folk leave Hong Kong, they’ll be heading to Canada and the US. They already own a lot of property/“second homes” on the West Coast. Especially after Brexit. I don’t think a lot of folk in the UK understand how poorly Brexit is perceived across Asia. Especially HK, where the UK’s relative absence (on account of its all consuming obsession with Brexit) during the protests last year didn’t exactly go unnoticed among the pro-democracy crowd (who the UK would presumably prefer).

On the flip side, the UK May get a few desperate HNWs temporarily while they plot their course to North America. So... some temporary benefit? Safe to say the UK won’t be their first choice.

But that aside, seems these announcements were meant for a domestic audience like yourself. In that sense, mission accomplished. Doesn’t look like the final outcome matters, does it?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:58 am

If you can offer something generous, knowing there will be no takers, it's a free lunch !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK gmeanwjilovernment saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:07 am

Aesma wrote:
If you can offer something generous, knowing there will be no takers, it's a free lunch !



:D :D easy-peasy
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:47 am

ElPistolero wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Three million people from Hong Kong could bring a lot of strengths to the UK economy. UK becomes even more international. Does anyone have any data on the education, work history, medical status of those three million? I suspect those people 'coming back' to the UK might be an impressive bunch.


The high net worth folk / high skilled labour you’re referring to are already spread out across North America (600,000+ in Canada, 300,000+ in the US), as are their networks. The UK, by comparison, accounts for only a fraction of the HK diaspora (145,000 according to Wiki).

If the remaining high net worth folk leave Hong Kong, they’ll be heading to Canada and the US. They already own a lot of property/“second homes” on the West Coast. Especially after Brexit. I don’t think a lot of folk in the UK understand how poorly Brexit is perceived across Asia. Especially HK, where the UK’s relative absence (on account of its all consuming obsession with Brexit) during the protests last year didn’t exactly go unnoticed among the pro-democracy crowd (who the UK would presumably prefer).

On the flip side, the UK May get a few desperate HNWs temporarily while they plot their course to North America. So... some temporary benefit? Safe to say the UK won’t be their first choice.

But that aside, seems these announcements were meant for a domestic audience like yourself. In that sense, mission accomplished. Doesn’t look like the final outcome matters, does it?


what might effect UK is that this group has put their investments in UK property market for the rainy day. Has the rainy day arrived?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:32 am

Klaus wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The UK diplomatic service is top nouche, except for dealing with FTA because they haven't done it in 40plus years, so they do not have any experience within the service and that takes time to rebuild that experience again.


But even if they had that, they still wouldn't be able to fetch all those unicorns BoJo had promised to his voters. Elections matter in that way, too!


That's true, of course. No unicorns. But still, if you want to negotiate 100plus trade deals it helps if you know what you are talking about.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:43 am

Dutchy wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The UK diplomatic service is top nouche, except for dealing with FTA because they haven't done it in 40plus years, so they do not have any experience within the service and that takes time to rebuild that experience again.


But even if they had that, they still wouldn't be able to fetch all those unicorns BoJo had promised to his voters. Elections matter in that way, too!


That's true, of course. No unicorns. But still, if you want to negotiate 100plus trade deals it helps if you know what you are talking about.

Still not so much if the government demands the impossible from its negotiators. There's no level of civil service competence that can truly neutralize an utterly incompetent or delusional leadership.

Boris' brethren in spirit in the US and in Brazil keep illustrating that sorry fact in ample detail as well. :(
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:30 pm

The UK's lead negotiator D. Frost signals in the Times that the UK government is willing to give ground on fisherish and the commitment to a level playing field in order to secure a FTA with the EU if the EU drops its demands on regulatory alignment and identical fishing access.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -2nl8qfzdr

While it is certainly encouraging to see the UK understand that it will have to give up its red lines drawn after the last elections, it's problematic because it still intends to alter the commitments made by it in the Political Declaration of October last year.

The EU has signalled in the past its willing to negotiate the technical practicalities of these political commitments based on the mandate it received from the EU memberstates, but the PD is to remain the guidline and the absolute minimum landing zone, so anything that tries to undershoots that is automatically off the table: no backpedling.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 pm

The UK would need a deal with the USA first. But with the way the USA is now, I don't see any deal getting past Congress until at least 2023 (I expect that Congress will be about the same as it is now for 2021-2).

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