olle
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:43 pm

So does the UK.

Eurozone 0.1% more or less 0 and UK 0...
 
olle
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:46 pm

Sweden also slowing with only 1% wich is bad;


https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/gdp-growth-annual
 
Klaus
Posts: 21495
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:06 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
A Brexiteer who was forced to wait in an immigration queue at an EU airport in Amsterdam has complained that "this isn’t the Brexit I voted for”.

... also Express and Daily Mail reader i guess. Because how deep was the hole he lived in for the last couple of years to not know that is one of the most obvious things that do happen after leaving the EU.

It's certainly an expected consequence of Brexit, just nominally it shouldn't happen yet during the transition period as long as the UK keeps sticking to the rules...

I am almost sure we here from him again.... when he complains that the NHS somehow doesn´t get 350 million more per week.Thomas

I'm sure they'll wheel out the EU as their go-to scapegoat for why it's all their fault even then! :crazy:
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Klaus wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
A Brexiteer who was forced to wait in an immigration queue at an EU airport in Amsterdam has complained that "this isn’t the Brexit I voted for”.

... also Express and Daily Mail reader i guess. Because how deep was the hole he lived in for the last couple of years to not know that is one of the most obvious things that do happen after leaving the EU.

It's certainly an expected consequence of Brexit, just nominally it shouldn't happen yet during the transition period as long as the UK keeps sticking to the rules...


I think that is in deed the intend of the WA, but the wording only says UK citizens have the same rights as they used to with regards to being allowed to enter/exit and residence, but it doesn't say they get that as de facto EU citizens.
Having a different Immigration lane isn't discriminatory, and they stopped being EU citizens. Sans a separate agreement I don't think they have a right to enter via an EU citizens counter.
Surprising read in the NL, but I don't think they are wrong per se.

I am almost sure we here from him again.... when he complains that the NHS somehow doesn´t get 350 million more per week.Thomas

I'm sure they'll wheel out the EU as their go-to scapegoat for why it's all their fault even then! :crazy:


True... but the people falling for that bull are rapidly changing addresses.... to 6 feet under. So that line has an expiration date...

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 1342
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:23 pm

To be honest, if it was not a sort of prank, I am surprised that Amsterdam is already applying theses rules, and not did not wait 2021.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:27 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Olddog wrote:
A very simple question: who elected Dominic Cummings, the de facto actual real PM ?

All western governments are run by advisors and civil servants, catch on :roll:

The press take a particular liking to cummings as he ran vote leave.

It's called scrutiny, something that used to be common in democracies but Cummings seems to be particularly averse to!

Arion640 wrote:
Oh yes. Well the eu has both, unelected eurocrats along with unelected advisors and unelected civil servants.

You're thoroughly confused about this.

In the EU the actual decisions are made by elected politicians just as in any member country.

Civil servants and appointed officials are tasked with executing political decisions and they always report back to those elected politicians and other advisors also only have as much power as the politicians are listening to them.

So again no structural difference between the EU and a national government – just Cummings is a particularly nasty piece of work and BoJo seems to listen to him to a particular extent. That makes him a problem for the UK, but it's not a formal issue so much as an issue of how BoJo is conducting his office.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:31 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
I think that is in deed the intend of the WA, but the wording only says UK citizens have the same rights as they used to with regards to being allowed to enter/exit and residence, but it doesn't say they get that as de facto EU citizens.
Having a different Immigration lane isn't discriminatory, and they stopped being EU citizens. Sans a separate agreement I don't think they have a right to enter via an EU citizens counter.
Surprising read in the NL, but I don't think they are wrong per se.

I think it's a bit of a grey area indeed: As long as the UK is still abiding by the transition rules, its citizens should to all intents and purposes still pose no more risk than EU citizens would, but they are indeed no citizens of the European Union any more, so formally they have no right to use the extra lane reserved for those any more.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:49 pm

seahawk wrote:
Exactly, the whole Eu politics was anti-UK. When the UK vetoes a proposal no other country must be allowed to go ahead with it.

That applied only as far as the UK actually participated in the policies in question.

You can't first opt out and then still demand to control what you just opted out of!

It's one or the other: Having your cake or eating it – remember?
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:51 pm

A101 wrote:
At the end of the day It’s new treaty because you couldn’t get the treaty changed, irrespective of the outcome it still an example of veto being an illusion. Don’t like the outcome we will just make a new treaty be dammed of the about perception that the EU honours laws and legislation of the TEU. The perception is a big fail look for a way around it.

The UK opting out of crucial mechanisms was where the ways parted, not the other member countries continuing on their path!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:53 pm

Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Exactly, the whole Eu politics was anti-UK. When the UK vetoes a proposal no other country must be allowed to go ahead with it.

That applied only as far as the UK actually participated in the policies in question.

You can't first opt out and then still demand to control what you just opted out of!

It's one or the other: Having your cake or eating it – remember?


So a consistent strategy by the Uk!
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:06 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Italian and French economic growth stagnant. The eurozone works wonders.


Not the fault of the EU.Try again.


The failed euro is a product of the EU. Try again.
1973-2020
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm

Olddog wrote:
To be honest, if it was not a sort of prank, I am surprised that Amsterdam is already applying theses rules, and not did not wait 2021.


This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.
1973-2020
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:26 pm

Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
At the end of the day It’s new treaty because you couldn’t get the treaty changed, irrespective of the outcome it still an example of veto being an illusion. Don’t like the outcome we will just make a new treaty be dammed of the about perception that the EU honours laws and legislation of the TEU. The perception is a big fail look for a way around it.



The UK opting out of crucial mechanisms was where the ways parted, not the other member countries continuing on their path!


It’s not that the UK opt out of the new treaty, it was the direct result of possabile unintend consequences of the original admendments to the TEU and and why the UK used the veto in which lead to other members to form a treaty within a treaty. It’s the usual stance from the EU to hell with it if we can’t get our way we will just go around you, it was not a good look when when it puts on the dog and pony show saying we are the exemplars of democracy especially when it motive was based at the heart of the TEU. You put the EU on a pedestal but you can’t live up to the ideals of being on that pedestal.

We are seeing it all over again in the way the EU handles FTA negotiations one set for Australia and another for the UK, just shows what bullies the EU are.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:27 pm

Arion640 wrote:
The failed euro is a product of the EU. Try again.

The Euro keeps working perfectly well as far as I can see.

That problems with certain national fiscal policies still need to get resolved doesn't change that. That work needs to be done anyway, and the UK's approach of just shrugging it off and maybe exploiting weaknesses instead has not been constructive at all, neither within nor without the EU.

Arion640 wrote:
This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.

Nonsense. It only affects traffic between the UK and the rest of the EU, and since the UK had already opted out of Schengen UK citizens had never enjoyed the Schengen benefits anyway, it just gets even more annoying for them while neither transit between the UK and extra-european destinations nor intra-european traffic is affected.

So just please don't bleed on our carpet with that hole you shot into your own foot and don't hold up the traffic for everybody else. Move along!
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:27 pm

Olddog wrote:
To be honest, if it was not a sort of prank, I am surprised that Amsterdam is already applying theses rules, and not did not wait 2021.


As stated in the article this had nothing to do with Brexit,

New Royal Netherlands Marrechaussee staff members were being trained yesterday, leading to longer queues at the passport control than usual," the spokesperson said, adding that there would be no further changes while negotiations are ongoing between the UK and EU.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-airport-queue-immigration-brexiteer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.html

However, this will be the delay as of January 1st 2021.

Arion640 wrote:
This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.


Not really. The majority of UK passengers using AMS as a hub fly to/from destinations outside Schengen and thus will never get through passport control. It will affect those who want to party in Amsterdam, but I doubt many in Amsterdam will see that as a problem (it would be more of a blessing to them).
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:30 pm

LJ wrote:
Olddog wrote:
To be honest, if it was not a sort of prank, I am surprised that Amsterdam is already applying theses rules, and not did not wait 2021.


As stated in the article this had nothing to do with Brexit,

New Royal Netherlands Marrechaussee staff members were being trained yesterday, leading to longer queues at the passport control than usual," the spokesperson said, adding that there would be no further changes while negotiations are ongoing between the UK and EU.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-airport-queue-immigration-brexiteer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.html

However, this will be the delay as of January 1st 2021.

Arion640 wrote:
This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.


Not really. The majority of UK passengers using AMS as a hub fly to/from destinations outside Schengen and thus will never get through passport control. It will affect those who want to party in Amsterdam, but I doubt many in Amsterdam will see that as a problem (it would be more of a blessing to them).


And lots do transit to European destinations. When i fly into AMS, many of the connection gates given out are to schengen destinations. This WILL cause AMS to see less traffic and the dutch authorities are shooting themselves in the foot. KLM cityhopper wouldn’t exist on the scale it does without the UK.
1973-2020
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 258
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:34 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Italian and French economic growth stagnant. The eurozone works wonders.


Not the fault of the EU.Try again.


The failed euro is a product of the EU. Try again.


What has the euro got to do with temporary global and localised economic issues? Coronavirus, China slowdown, US tariffs on China, German car industry, Italian govenment problems, French strikes, global slowdown, UK shooting itself in the foot, Iran = high oil prices etc etc.

I guess the Euro was at fault when France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc all saw between 1.5-7% GDP growth per year in the early 2000's and again after the recession in 2009- 2010.

Country's like Italy that haven't seen that growth level, have had long term structural economic or govenmental problems and have been on a negative slide for decades. The Euro didn't make it worse.

Politicans and those with an agenda blame the Euro, economists look at numbers and reasons. They usually come to a different conclusion.
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:49 pm

Arion640 wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-airport-queue-immigration-brexiteer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.html

However, this will be the delay as of January 1st 2021.

Arion640 wrote:
This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.


Not really. The majority of UK passengers using AMS as a hub fly to/from destinations outside Schengen and thus will never get through passport control. It will affect those who want to party in Amsterdam, but I doubt many in Amsterdam will see that as a problem (it would be more of a blessing to them).


Not really as the UK passenger will face the same delays with all other Schengen countries.....
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:58 pm

Olddog wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-airport-queue-immigration-brexiteer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.html

However, this will be the delay as of January 1st 2021.

Arion640 wrote:
This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.


Not really. The majority of UK passengers using AMS as a hub fly to/from destinations outside Schengen and thus will never get through passport control. It will affect those who want to party in Amsterdam, but I doubt many in Amsterdam will see that as a problem (it would be more of a blessing to them).


Not really as the UK passenger will face the same delays with all other Schengen countries.....


Might as well fly via heathrow or paris then
1973-2020
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:16 pm

Via Heathrow, why set foot into the EU?
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:01 pm

What you are not understanding, that it is the confrontational way you see things that kills any agreement.

Amsterdam may consider that the UK passengers are interesting for them so may want to find a special deal with the UK. But if you go thru expecting to have equal rights with EU citizens, just because you are from the UK, not a chance....
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:40 pm

seahawk wrote:
Via Heathrow, why set foot into the EU?


More UK connections will be done via heathrow in the future rather than AMS. Flybe are launching more domestic routes and BA have just announced newquay.
1973-2020
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:38 pm

Arion640 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Via Heathrow, why set foot into the EU?


More UK connections will be done via heathrow in the future rather than AMS. Flybe are launching more domestic routes and BA have just announced newquay.

You won't escape the more onerous entry checks to the EU from the brexited UK either way, which is simply what you've voted for.

The non-Schengen queues will always move slower than those for european Schengen-area citizens and not even being a non-Schengen european citizen any more will mean you'll probably be checked even more thoroughly than you already were before Brexit (ah, the joys of opt-outs!).

That you've bumped yourself from second tier now down to third is sad, but it was your own choice, so you should just stop the whining about the consequences!

Your fellow britons who you've bumped down to third tier explicitly without their consent, on the other hand, do have reason to complain – at their own government and their fellow britons who forced that on them.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:05 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
olle wrote:
UK passports starts to be checked more detailed. UK people start to be directed to non EU immigration,


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 35281.html


freaking brilliant:

A Brexiteer who was forced to wait in an immigration queue at an EU airport in Amsterdam has complained that "this isn’t the Brexit I voted for”.


... also Express and Daily Mail reader i guess. Because how deep was the hole he lived in for the last couple of years to not know that is one of the most obvious things that do happen after leaving the EU.

I am almost sure we here from him again.... when he complains that the NHS somehow doesn´t get 350 million more per week.

best regards
Thomas


UK passport holders are entitled to use the blue EU lanes until the transition period is ended. I would have expected this sort messing about in some of the Spanish or French entry points, very surprised it was the Dutch.

But yes, love the fact a brexiteering cockwomble has finally realised one of the many rights & privileges EU membership brings is lost. The poor sod will no doubt be whining incessantly over the next few years as each one is revealed. Four years on and they still don't get what they had, and what they've thrown away. Grim times ahead, but it'll be everyone else's fault as usual.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:27 pm

Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Via Heathrow, why set foot into the EU?


More UK connections will be done via heathrow in the future rather than AMS. Flybe are launching more domestic routes and BA have just announced newquay.

You won't escape the more onerous entry checks to the EU from the brexited UK either way, which is simply what you've voted for.

The non-Schengen queues will always move slower than those for european Schengen-area citizens and not even being a non-Schengen european citizen any more will mean you'll probably be checked even more thoroughly than you already were before Brexit (ah, the joys of opt-outs!).

That you've bumped yourself from second tier now down to third is sad, but it was your own choice, so you should just stop the whining about the consequences!

Your fellow britons who you've bumped down to third tier explicitly without their consent, on the other hand, do have reason to complain – at their own government and their fellow britons who forced that on them.


Indeed. And we can have fun turning away EU citizens at the UK Border we cannot be satisfied meet the immigration rules.

The EU citizens who use to turn up in Calais without valid ID used to get very upset when I refused entry to them. It is amazing how many did not realise the UK was not in the Schengen area :)
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:29 pm

Olddog wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-airport-queue-immigration-brexiteer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.html

However, this will be the delay as of January 1st 2021.

Arion640 wrote:
This severely weakens Amsterdams position as a a hub for UK traffic.


Not really. The majority of UK passengers using AMS as a hub fly to/from destinations outside Schengen and thus will never get through passport control. It will affect those who want to party in Amsterdam, but I doubt many in Amsterdam will see that as a problem (it would be more of a blessing to them).


Not really as the UK passenger will face the same delays with all other Schengen countries.....


As will EU citizens arriving in the UK. They’ll be having to complete landing cards.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 pm

Olddog wrote:
What you are not understanding, that it is the confrontational way you see things that kills any agreement.

Amsterdam may consider that the UK passengers are interesting for them so may want to find a special deal with the UK. But if you go thru expecting to have equal rights with EU citizens, just because you are from the UK, not a chance....


I doubt. First, it applies to non-EU passengers only, thus EU nationals travelling will experience no change. Moreover, how many actually transfer to a Schengen country at AMS from the UK? Finally, AFAIK the person complained about the passport control on arrival. I can fully understand that AMS will have more non-EU lanes for transfer passengers.

ChrisKen wrote:
UK passport holders are entitled to use the blue EU lanes until the transition period is ended. I would have expected this sort messing about in some of the Spanish or French entry points, very surprised it was the Dutch.


As mentioned before, this had nothing to do with Brexit as they were training new employees (probably in order to prepare for after January 1st 2021).

Arion640 wrote:
More UK connections will be done via heathrow in the future rather than AMS. Flybe are launching more domestic routes and BA have just announced newquay.


Yeah, as if they're going to waste valuable slots for a 3 daily to Cardiff or Norwich.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:43 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Indeed. And we can have fun turning away EU citizens at the UK Border we cannot be satisfied meet the immigration rules.

It's amazing that some people think a slide back into the 19th century is all they want.

The EU citizens who use to turn up in Calais without valid ID used to get very upset when I refused entry to them. It is amazing how many did not realise the UK was not in the Schengen area :)

Yeah, it was always sad to see the UK falling behind on the progress the rest of the continent had already made.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:47 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Indeed. And we can have fun turning away EU citizens at the UK Border we cannot be satisfied meet the immigration rules.

It's amazing that some people think a slide back into the 19th century is all they want.

The EU citizens who use to turn up in Calais without valid ID used to get very upset when I refused entry to them. It is amazing how many did not realise the UK was not in the Schengen area :)

Yeah, it was always sad to see the UK falling behind on the progress the rest of the continent had already made.


The Schengen area was never going to be a good thing for the UK.

I am not sure why you refer to the 19th century? Are you confused? Immigration controls for European citizens under 1971 Immigration Act were in place until the early 1990s.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:03 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
The Schengen area was never going to be a good thing for the UK.


Why? Seriously. why?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:18 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
The Schengen area was never going to be a good thing for the UK.


Why? Seriously. why?


Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:21 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
The Schengen area was never going to be a good thing for the UK.


Why? Seriously. why?


Sigh.

I have repeated this many times.

By being outside Schengen, we check every passport of people entering the UK. All scanned, all checked. We have scope for customs checks of all vehicles entering the UK, should we wish.

Most criminal deportations of foreign nationals in the UK are EEA nationals. Hence checking of everyone coming in (bar clandestine methods) allows those with deportation orders to be intercepted at the border.

Juxtapost customs checks as well as those in country allow illegal narcotics and firearms be detected, allowing a safer UK.

Economic migrants and asylum seekers who are not European, cannot get in the UK other than via clandestine methods saving the UK a fortune.

Young girls from Eastern Europe being trafficked to the UK for forced prostitution are often stopped and prevented from entry (we have 1-2 cases per week in Calais alone).

Now. Other than not having to need a passport to travel or crossing EU nations without border checks please enlighten us all to the merits of being in the Schengen area.
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 324
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:35 pm

LJ wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
UK passport holders are entitled to use the blue EU lanes until the transition period is ended. I would have expected this sort messing about in some of the Spanish or French entry points, very surprised it was the Dutch.


As mentioned before, this had nothing to do with Brexit as they were training new employees (probably in order to prepare for after January 1st 2021).


That's the irony of all this. A lot of noise for a wrong reason on the network, as it's not a legal mandatory consequence of Brexit YET thanks to the TP, but a you say, probably a Brexit consequence anyway !

We can't blame this poor guy who goes under spotlights for the wrong reason, but we can also recognise that's exactly what UK citizen will experience in any EU airport next year, and he isn't exactly complaining because it happens too soon.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:47 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
The Schengen area was never going to be a good thing for the UK.


Why? Seriously. why?


Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.


I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.
1973-2020
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:53 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Why? Seriously. why?


Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.


I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


Wait until the next ice age, and we will be linked.

If Mr Trump is still around in 80,000 years time, we’ll need his advice on building a wall
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:04 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Why? Seriously. why?


Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.


I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


That's something I agree very much.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
LJ
Posts: 4989
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:59 am

Arion640 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Why? Seriously. why?


Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.


I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


Can you pleae elaborate on why the UK and EU aren't compatible? Can you then tell us why the Irish and EU are compatible (or do you think they're also not compatible with the EU)?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 11867
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:12 am

ChrisKen wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
olle wrote:
UK passports starts to be checked more detailed. UK people start to be directed to non EU immigration,


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 35281.html


freaking brilliant:

A Brexiteer who was forced to wait in an immigration queue at an EU airport in Amsterdam has complained that "this isn’t the Brexit I voted for”.


... also Express and Daily Mail reader i guess. Because how deep was the hole he lived in for the last couple of years to not know that is one of the most obvious things that do happen after leaving the EU.

I am almost sure we here from him again.... when he complains that the NHS somehow doesn´t get 350 million more per week.

best regards
Thomas


UK passport holders are entitled to use the blue EU lanes until the transition period is ended.


Since you have just been over the WA....maybe you can point me to where it says that, because I didn't find it.
I already stated I agree that was the intent, but it didn't make it into the WAs language.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
A101
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:49 am

tommy1808 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

freaking brilliant:



... also Express and Daily Mail reader i guess. Because how deep was the hole he lived in for the last couple of years to not know that is one of the most obvious things that do happen after leaving the EU.

I am almost sure we here from him again.... when he complains that the NHS somehow doesn´t get 350 million more per week.

best regards
Thomas


UK passport holders are entitled to use the blue EU lanes until the transition period is ended.


Since you have just been over the WA....maybe you can point me to where it says that, because I didn't find it.
I already stated I agree that was the intent, but it didn't make it into the WAs language.

Best regards
Thomas



Under the terms of the transition period the UK has to completely comply with EU rules, that would also imply that the continent also cannot change the rules to suit themselves. It’s why you sent a revised bill for membership fees. So nothing actually changes until either a trade agreement is reached or we go to the fall back position of WTO and third country entry requirements. I’m still surprised that the EU allowed the ROI to enter into an agreement with the UK for CTA
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 10873
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Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:03 am

A101 wrote:
I’m still surprised that the EU allowed the ROI to enter into an agreement with the UK for CTA


Why? The EU is not the bad men here. It is pragmatic and looking out for the interest of its members. I guess you are surprised that the EU is not what the English Tabloids make it out of it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4082
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:48 am

Arion640 wrote:
On the contrast, my employer is now doing more Business with the EU, or will be moving into the future.


Tell me more about the thousands of EU firms queuing up to leave the ghastly single market and move production of their goods to low regulation, pro-business Brexit Brittania. There's probably tens of thousands actually, right?

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
You don't get to claim that your total lack of evidence is somehow MORE VALID than a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against you. That's just stupid.


Eh ? That's exactly what leavers have been doing for the last four years. Overwhelming evidence to the contrary never stopped them claiming that their opinion on trade deals being easy, hard Brexit resulting in little economic harm, border checks having no effect on supply chains, WTO rules being fine for British farming or Brexit creating economic opportunity not destroying it was wrong.

Just because the UK has left doesn't mean they're going to change their modus operandi. ;)

Arion640 wrote:
Bickering aside, the trade deal will happen. It’s in both sides interest. We will also be restricting EU fishing boats from our waters.


Well in that case you're not going to be selling fish into the EU. Let's hope that Africa and North America pay good money for British fish.

noviorbis77 wrote:
Unfortunately Brexit has drawn out some pretty unpleasant individuals.

On both sides.


Go on, tell me more about all the racist and intimidatory remainers that Brexit has drawn out of the shadows.

Klaus wrote:
Good question! :biggrin:

I was of course referring to Scotland becoming independent with that!


He knows that.
First to fly the 787-9
 
AeroVega
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:32 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:29 am

Arion640 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Why? Seriously. why?


Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.


I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


Agreed. Being part of the EU is not really necessary for an island nation. If you ignore the Irish border, that is (which most leavers do).
 
A101
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
I’m still surprised that the EU allowed the ROI to enter into an agreement with the UK for CTA


Why? The EU is not the bad men here. It is pragmatic and looking out for the interest of its members. I guess you are surprised that the EU is not what the English Tabloids make it out of it.


Well considering we are talking about a external border and free movement between the EU and a non member nationals that competence actually belongs to Brussels, its nothing to do with the media.

Its not a problem while being members of the EU but technically will be if no agreement is reached between the UK and the EU. As far as I know no other EU member has a bilateral agreement of free movement of nationals. The only non member that has free movement is Switzerland, but it has an agreement with the EU under AFMP not a single member with the EU
 
olle
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:48 am

What I read here is a quit return to 1910 in the way to think... Sad day for everyone believing UK has its future close to Europe.

The problem is that UK do not seems to be close to US either...

What does UK want to be close to?
 
A101
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 am

olle wrote:
What I read here is a quit return to 1910 in the way to think... Sad day for everyone believing UK has its future close to Europe.




What makes you think that?
 
Arion640
Posts: 2822
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:42 am

LJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:

Because they live on their island, they believe they are different and they were told it's a bad thing.


I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


Can you pleae elaborate on why the UK and EU aren't compatible? Can you then tell us why the Irish and EU are compatible (or do you think they're also not compatible with the EU)?


Britain have always be ones to do things differently. Ireland are probably one of the less EU compatible countries as they don’t do schengen.
1973-2020
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:03 am

Arion640 wrote:
LJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


Can you pleae elaborate on why the UK and EU aren't compatible? Can you then tell us why the Irish and EU are compatible (or do you think they're also not compatible with the EU)?


Britain have always be ones to do things differently. Ireland are probably one of the less EU compatible countries as they don’t do schengen.


That was some masterful trolling, Sir. Ireland not joining Schengen because they are anti-EU, marvellous trolling!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am

seahawk wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
LJ wrote:

Can you pleae elaborate on why the UK and EU aren't compatible? Can you then tell us why the Irish and EU are compatible (or do you think they're also not compatible with the EU)?


Britain have always be ones to do things differently. Ireland are probably one of the less EU compatible countries as they don’t do schengen.


That was some masterful trolling, Sir. Ireland not joining Schengen because they are anti-EU, marvellous trolling!


Ireland probably realises the flaws of Schengen. Besides they are in the CTA.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:08 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

Britain have always be ones to do things differently. Ireland are probably one of the less EU compatible countries as they don’t do schengen.


That was some masterful trolling, Sir. Ireland not joining Schengen because they are anti-EU, marvellous trolling!


Ireland probably realises the flaws of Schengen. Besides they are in the CTA.


Exactly! And as the UK refused to join Schengen, Ireland could only honour the Good Friday Agreement by not joining Schengen and staying in the CTA.
 
LJ
Posts: 4989
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit Part 8: the UK government saying what I want is full access and divergence

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:44 pm

Arion640 wrote:
LJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I genuinely think the EU and the UK just aren’t compatible. If we had been connected to mainland europe all along, things would be different.


Can you pleae elaborate on why the UK and EU aren't compatible? Can you then tell us why the Irish and EU are compatible (or do you think they're also not compatible with the EU)?


Britain have always be ones to do things differently. Ireland are probably one of the less EU compatible countries as they don’t do schengen.


Doing things differently is not an argument why one is not compatible with the EU. I do many things different than my wife and we're still compatible. Moreover, the Dutch do many things differently than the Spanish or Germans, but somehow we're all compatible with the EU (except the British). Thus, what is the exact reason why you think the British are not compatible? Is it stubborness, unwilling to listen to somebody else and/or want to reach a compromise or what?

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