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Dutchy
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Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:01 pm

Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:40 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


yeah? Tell that Crimea and the rest of Ukraine.....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:57 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.




You’re right. However, the reason does matter.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:58 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


Douma extended an invitation to the Dutch Parlement and then refused to let one Parlementariar in, do you have any opinion about that? Furthermore, why is this Parlementariar blacklisted? As far as I can see, his only crime is that he is critical about the Putin regime. And to be fair, I know him personally, so I know a bit about his background.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:36 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


Douma extended an invitation to the Dutch Parlement and then refused to let one Parlementariar in, do you have any opinion about that? Furthermore, why is this Parlementariar blacklisted? As far as I can see, his only crime is that he is critical about the Putin regime. And to be fair, I know him personally, so I know a bit about his background.


You don't have to be guilty of a crime to be refused entry into another country. Talking shit about said country/people/leadership is usually more than enough to get refused entry. Heck if I was a public personality and would be saying what I write here on this Forum I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too welcome in the U.S. at least.
So in the case of your guy, looks like the Ministry of Foreign affairs considers him an undesirable individual and acted accordingly. Their call. Pretty sure if Vladimir Zhirinovsky went on a rant about the Netherlands, he wouldn't get a visa too...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:37 am

tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


yeah? Tell that Crimea and the rest of Ukraine.....

best regards
Thomas


Good point. That's exactly what happened in Crimea. Their parliament and people asked for help and they got it.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:49 am

tu204 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


yeah? Tell that Crimea and the rest of Ukraine.....

best regards
Thomas


Good point.


End of story.
But i hear plenty of people in Kaliningrad want to be free and hence join Lithuania, i think we should send some troops to make that happen. We know now people are unable to express their wishes freely, so only an occupation force can guarantee a proper Referendum. You will see it will turn out close to 100% "join Lithuania".

I am surprised and glad you will accept Kaliningrad joining Lithuania without making a fuzz about it.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:04 am

tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


yeah? Tell that Crimea and the rest of Ukraine.....

best regards
Thomas


I think you'll find the Crimean's are more than happy with the change in govt, not so sure about the rest of Ukraine, it's a dump, it always has been and always will be, it's not populated with people who have any motivation to change it.
 
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:23 am

Kiwirob wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


yeah? Tell that Crimea and the rest of Ukraine.....

best regards
Thomas


I think you'll find the Crimean's are more than happy with the change in govt, not so sure about the rest of Ukraine, it's a dump, it always has been and always will be, it's not populated with people who have any motivation to change it.


The Ukraine at least demonstrates that it never pays to give up your nuclear weapons program. Libya and Saddam learned that lesson the hard way, and now the Iranians are being shown its never worth it to halt or backtrack on your nuclear program because the other parties with nuclear weapons can’t be trusted to keep their word. Kim Jung Un certainly has taken note of these lessons.
 
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:34 am

Dutchy wrote:
Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Here is a link to the article:

Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D66 employee
 
tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:43 pm

SQ22 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Here is a link to the article:

Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D66 employee


Quoting the article: "For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime".

That there is an unfriendly actions against Russia and is more than enough to land yourself on a blacklist in any developed country.

So if he is so "anti-Russian", why did he want to come with this delegation? Seems like this guy wanted to make a PR stink knowing he would be refused entry in the first place.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
VSMUT
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:14 pm

What on earth is "D66"?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:17 pm

tu204 wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Here is a link to the article:

Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D66 employee


Quoting the article: "For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime".

That there is an unfriendly actions against Russia and is more than enough to land yourself on a blacklist in any developed country..


well, that doesn´t explain why he was blacklistes in Russia then.

Russia just needs to stop violating Human rights and there won´t be any sanctions. It is that easy on top of Russia being a voluntary party to those human rights.

Violations of International law usually lead to Sanctions. In any developed country.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:18 pm

VSMUT wrote:
What on earth is "D66"?


dutch democratic party founded in 1966.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
VSMUT
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:28 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
What on earth is "D66"?


dutch democratic party founded in 1966.

best regards
Thomas


Do they have some sort of diplomatic right to enter any country and do inspections, like UN nuclear weapons inspectors?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:35 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
What on earth is "D66"?


dutch democratic party founded in 1966.

best regards
Thomas


Do they have some sort of diplomatic right to enter any country and do inspections, like UN nuclear weapons inspectors?


People with an Invitation usually have the right to enter. They had one. Its called diplomatice etiquette to let those people in, and not doing so was well within acceptable reasons to start shooting just about 100 years ago.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
VSMUT
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:43 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

dutch democratic party founded in 1966.

best regards
Thomas


Do they have some sort of diplomatic right to enter any country and do inspections, like UN nuclear weapons inspectors?


People with an Invitation usually have the right to enter. They had one. Its called diplomatice etiquette to let those people in, and not doing so was well within acceptable reasons to start shooting just about 100 years ago.

best regards
Thomas


Did they invite that person specifically?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:47 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Do they have some sort of diplomatic right to enter any country and do inspections, like UN nuclear weapons inspectors?


People with an Invitation usually have the right to enter. They had one. Its called diplomatice etiquette to let those people in, and not doing so was well within acceptable reasons to start shooting just about 100 years ago.

best regards
Thomas


Did they invite that person specifically?


that would also violate diplomatice etiquette. There are reasons why PNGing folks is such a big deal, this is effectively a mild version of that.

The Netherlands should return the next delegation going through AMS for measured reciprocity.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
VSMUT
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:32 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

People with an Invitation usually have the right to enter. They had one. Its called diplomatice etiquette to let those people in, and not doing so was well within acceptable reasons to start shooting just about 100 years ago.

best regards
Thomas


Did they invite that person specifically?


that would also violate diplomatice etiquette. There are reasons why PNGing folks is such a big deal, this is effectively a mild version of that.

The Netherlands should return the next delegation going through AMS for measured reciprocity.

best regards
Thomas


That is an etiquette of the past. Blocking people you don't like is the new etiquette:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/06/tr ... y-council/
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191 ... gi-murder/
https://en.lb.ua/news/2020/01/23/8357_t ... arred.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50452829
 
alfa164
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:53 pm

tu204 wrote:
That there is an unfriendly actions against Russia and is more than enough to land yourself on a blacklist in any developed country.


No... being "unfriendly" - in the eyes of Putin and his cronies - only lands you on the blacklist for an autocratic state like Russia.


tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
What on earth is "D66"?

dutch democratic party founded in 1966.


Makes sense. The mere term "democratic" is an anathema to autocrats like Putin.


VSMUT wrote:
Blocking people you don't like is the new etiquette


It may be the new reality, but it will never be the new etiquette.
Last edited by alfa164 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LJ
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:53 pm

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Ummm... it's entirely up to the inviting country to decide who does or does not enter the inviting country.


Douma extended an invitation to the Dutch Parlement and then refused to let one Parlementariar in, do you have any opinion about that? Furthermore, why is this Parlementariar blacklisted? As far as I can see, his only crime is that he is critical about the Putin regime. And to be fair, I know him personally, so I know a bit about his background.


You don't have to be guilty of a crime to be refused entry into another country. Talking shit about said country/people/leadership is usually more than enough to get refused entry. Heck if I was a public personality and would be saying what I write here on this Forum I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too welcome in the U.S. at least.
So in the case of your guy, looks like the Ministry of Foreign affairs considers him an undesirable individual and acted accordingly. Their call. Pretty sure if Vladimir Zhirinovsky went on a rant about the Netherlands, he wouldn't get a visa too...


Yet the Russian government fails to provide a reason why he's refused. If they would say he's not wanted in Russia due to being critical, then we at least know why. However, AFAIK no reason has been given (at least not one which could be made public).
 
tommy1808
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:08 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Did they invite that person specifically?


that would also violate diplomatice etiquette. There are reasons why PNGing folks is such a big deal, this is effectively a mild version of that.

The Netherlands should return the next delegation going through AMS for measured reciprocity.

best regards
Thomas


That is an etiquette of the past. Blocking people you don't like is the new etiquette:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/06/tr ... y-council/
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191 ... gi-murder/
https://en.lb.ua/news/2020/01/23/8357_t ... arred.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50452829


So, two denials by Trump, hence Russia by proxy, one by China, a crime pretending to be a country and I don't know why you bring up Ukraine, as they can shoot russian politicians on sight if they want to, because war...

I rest my case, only ass whipes do it.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:12 pm

SQ22 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D'66 MP
   
The House of Representatives has canceled a working visit to the Russian parliament. The standing committee of Foreign Affairs decided on Tuesday to cancel the trip after Monday it was announced that the Russian government has blacklisted D66 MP Sjoerd Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Pia Dijkstra: "We will let the Duma know that we are very disappointed that a parliamentarian is not admitted on the basis of a secret list, on which Mr Sjoerdsma is on."

Sjoerdsma: "The Chamber Committee said that if one member of the House of Representatives cannot be invited, the entire parliament will not be invited to do so. The Duma has thus canceled the invitation."

Russia has given no formal reason for the MP's refusal. "It is still unclear why I am on the list," said Sjoerdsma.

Commission President Dijkstra will therefore call on the Russian ambassador to the House of Representatives to request text and explanation about the action.

Sjoerdsma often criticized Putin's regime

Sjoerdsma is known as a critic of the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin. For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime, unofficially named after the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who was found dead in a Russian cell under suspicious circumstances.

Sjoerdsma is also a critical follower of the MH17 file and the involvement of the Russian army in the delivery of the rifle rocket that was used to crash the aircraft.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) called the action of the Russians Monday "incorrect". He made every effort to get Sjoerdsma off the sanction list by, among other things, summoning the Russian ambassador, but without success.


The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Here is a link to the article:

Chamber cancels working visit after Russian refusal of D66 employee


Thanks, I see I forgot to link the article.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:24 pm

alfa164 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
What on earth is "D66"?

dutch democratic party founded in 1966.


Makes sense. The mere term "democratic" is an anathema to autocrats like Putin.


haha, keep in mind, though, the DDR or DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea), are also called Democratic.

but indeed in the case of D'66 or Democraten 66, no. They are a liberal center party, their voters are many liberal, highly educated - at least batchelor - younger etrc.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:25 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Do they have some sort of diplomatic right to enter any country and do inspections, like UN nuclear weapons inspectors?


People with an Invitation usually have the right to enter. They had one. Its called diplomatice etiquette to let those people in, and not doing so was well within acceptable reasons to start shooting just about 100 years ago.

best regards
Thomas


Did they invite that person specifically?


No, the Douma invited the Dutch Parlemaint for a visit, and now they are demanding that one person is not included. The perfectly predictable answer is, fine, then nobody goes.
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:04 pm

tu204 wrote:
Talking shit about said country/people/leadership is usually more than enough to get refused entry.


Let's be perfectly clear, he is not talking "shit", as you call it, about Russia. He is calling out the actions of the Putin regime for what it is. So what your government is doing, is sending the message: If you call out our actions, we do not want to talk to you.
So they only want to talk to people who let the Putin regime get away with all the stunts - or better crimes - they pull, and thus agree with them? It just goes on to show their true colors yet again, so no surprise there.

tu204 wrote:
So in the case of your guy, looks like the Ministry of Foreign affairs considers him an undesirable individual and acted accordingly. Their call. Pretty sure if Vladimir Zhirinovsky went on a rant about the Netherlands, he wouldn't get a visa too...


I don't know who Vladimir Zhirinovsky was, he is described as follows: He is fiercely nationalist and has been described as "a showman of Russian politics, blending populist and nationalist rhetoric, anti-Western invective and a brash, confrontational style".[1] His views have been described as fascist.. So indeed not a desirable person to have in the country. But I think that if the Tweede Kamer, would extend an invitation to Douma and he would be part of it, the Dutch government would extend him a visa, without hesitation. You know why: it is a diplomatic visit to change ideas and to reach out to one another. In our democratic system, the highest authority is not the government, but Parliament. Within the autocratic regime of Russia, the authority is Putin and Putin can't handle any criticism, so you get this kind of reaction. I think it is a bit pre-school like, but fine, there you go.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:33 pm

Dutchy wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
dutch democratic party founded in 1966.


Makes sense. The mere term "democratic" is an anathema to autocrats like Putin.


haha, keep in mind, though, the DDR or DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea), are also called Democratic.

but indeed in the case of D'66 or Democraten 66, no. They are a liberal center party, their voters are many liberal, highly educated - at least batchelor - younger etrc.


I used to vote D'66, but haven't been near a polling station in years. Kinda hard to do when you live abroad.
 
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:40 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
SQ22 wrote:


Quoting the article: "For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime".

That there is an unfriendly actions against Russia and is more than enough to land yourself on a blacklist in any developed country..


well, that doesn´t explain why he was blacklistes in Russia then.

Russia just needs to stop violating Human rights and there won´t be any sanctions. It is that easy on top of Russia being a voluntary party to those human rights.

Violations of International law usually lead to Sanctions. In any developed country.

best regards
Thomas


Well one can find or think up whatever reasons to blacklist someone. I guess the EU or the Netherlands found ways in the case of Russian nationals, therefore Russia will obviously act with a tit for tat measure and blacklist them in return. Want to come to Russia? Don't do stupid shit or make stupid comments which will get you blacklisted. Simple.
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tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:42 pm

alfa164 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
That there is an unfriendly actions against Russia and is more than enough to land yourself on a blacklist in any developed country.


No... being "unfriendly" - in the eyes of Putin and his cronies - only lands you on the blacklist for an autocratic state like Russia.



Looks like some cronies in the western regimes blacklisted some Russians, which resulted in said western cronies getting blacklisted from Russia. See? Goes both ways.
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:49 pm

LJ wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Douma extended an invitation to the Dutch Parlement and then refused to let one Parlementariar in, do you have any opinion about that? Furthermore, why is this Parlementariar blacklisted? As far as I can see, his only crime is that he is critical about the Putin regime. And to be fair, I know him personally, so I know a bit about his background.


You don't have to be guilty of a crime to be refused entry into another country. Talking shit about said country/people/leadership is usually more than enough to get refused entry. Heck if I was a public personality and would be saying what I write here on this Forum I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too welcome in the U.S. at least.
So in the case of your guy, looks like the Ministry of Foreign affairs considers him an undesirable individual and acted accordingly. Their call. Pretty sure if Vladimir Zhirinovsky went on a rant about the Netherlands, he wouldn't get a visa too...


Yet the Russian government fails to provide a reason why he's refused. If they would say he's not wanted in Russia due to being critical, then we at least know why. However, AFAIK no reason has been given (at least not one which could be made public).


While maybe "not nice", but from what I gather, not illegal. Being granted entry into a foreign country as a visitor or guest (unless you are a resident/citizen of said country) is a privilage and not a right. With the exception of locations hosting international bodies such as the UN, Red Cross and whatnot, which we have seen constantly violated by refusing entry to say UN summits in New York.
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tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Talking shit about said country/people/leadership is usually more than enough to get refused entry.


Let's be perfectly clear, he is not talking "shit", as you call it, about Russia. He is calling out the actions of the Putin regime for what it is. So what your government is doing, is sending the message: If you call out our actions, we do not want to talk to you.
So they only want to talk to people who let the Putin regime get away with all the stunts - or better crimes - they pull, and thus agree with them? It just goes on to show their true colors yet again, so no surprise there.

tu204 wrote:
So in the case of your guy, looks like the Ministry of Foreign affairs considers him an undesirable individual and acted accordingly. Their call. Pretty sure if Vladimir Zhirinovsky went on a rant about the Netherlands, he wouldn't get a visa too...


I don't know who Vladimir Zhirinovsky was, he is described as follows: He is fiercely nationalist and has been described as "a showman of Russian politics, blending populist and nationalist rhetoric, anti-Western invective and a brash, confrontational style".[1] His views have been described as fascist.. So indeed not a desirable person to have in the country. But I think that if the Tweede Kamer, would extend an invitation to Douma and he would be part of it, the Dutch government would extend him a visa, without hesitation. You know why: it is a diplomatic visit to change ideas and to reach out to one another. In our democratic system, the highest authority is not the government, but Parliament. Within the autocratic regime of Russia, the authority is Putin and Putin can't handle any criticism, so you get this kind of reaction. I think it is a bit pre-school like, but fine, there you go.


1 - In my opinion, who comes into the country is purely up to that country. I have no clue who this dude is other than from the article posted here, so I can't really say much on this individual. However there's a fine blurred line between critics and meddling in internal affairs of another nation. So if what is written in the article is true, than he fully deserves to be denied entry. Sovreignty.

2 - Maybe yes, maybe no. He's blacklisted in quite a few countries and I would totally understand and support the decision to deny Zhirinovsky entry. Don't recall if he had any rants about the Netherlands, but if he was to go on one about "hookers and druggies" in his usual style I wouldn't be suprised if he was denied entry to you guys.
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:08 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Makes sense. The mere term "democratic" is an anathema to autocrats like Putin.


haha, keep in mind, though, the DDR or DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea), are also called Democratic.

but indeed in the case of D'66 or Democraten 66, no. They are a liberal center party, their voters are many liberal, highly educated - at least batchelor - younger etrc.


I used to vote D'66, but haven't been near a polling station in years. Kinda hard to do when you live abroad.


Should be doable though. I don't know how it works in The Netherlands, but you could vote by post in some form.
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:41 pm

tu204 wrote:
1 - In my opinion, who comes into the country is purely up to that country. I have no clue who this dude is other than from the article posted here, so I can't really say much on this individual. However there's a fine blurred line between critics and meddling in internal affairs of another nation. So if what is written in the article is true, than he fully deserves to be denied entry. Sovreignty.


He is no "dude", he is a member of Parliament. Our parliament got invited, not the individuals. So by denying entry, a Member of the Dutch Parliament got denied, not just an individual. So in diplomatic circles, it is a slap in the face of The Netherlands. Do you have any opinion about that?

tu204 wrote:
2 - Maybe yes, maybe no. He's blacklisted in quite a few countries and I would totally understand and support the decision to deny Zhirinovsky entry. Don't recall if he had any rants about the Netherlands, but if he was to go on one about "hookers and druggies" in his usual style I wouldn't be suprised if he was denied entry to you guys.


I would be very surprised if he got denied entry in the Netherlands, if he was part of an official dedication from the Russian "parliament". I do not know if any instance in which an official member of a delegation was denied entry into the Netherlands.
The Russian diplomat which was drunk in public, his wife crashed into a few cars in a drunken state, his children screaming and he was - illegally - detained by the Dutch police, which didn't know he was a diplomat, even he wasn't pushed out of the Netherlands - he was later quietly recalled, though. But if you can come up with an example, sure I will listen.

BTW, Sjoerd is a trained diplomat and was in the Dutch diplomatic corps before he got himself elected in Parliament. So I don't know why you want to compare him to someone like Zhirinovsky. His criticism of Russia has aways got substance and merit. Sure, mr. Putin would not like it, but Sjoerd always plays the ball, not the player. So do you have an opinion of the slap in the face Russia gave the Netherlands?
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:13 am

tu204 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Quoting the article: "For example, the D66 was at the cradle of the European human rights sanction regime".

That there is an unfriendly actions against Russia and is more than enough to land yourself on a blacklist in any developed country..


well, that doesn´t explain why he was blacklistes in Russia then.

Russia just needs to stop violating Human rights and there won´t be any sanctions. It is that easy on top of Russia being a voluntary party to those human rights.

Violations of International law usually lead to Sanctions. In any developed country.

best regards
Thomas


Well one can find or think up whatever reasons to blacklist someone. I guess the EU or the Netherlands found ways in the case of Russian nationals, therefore Russia will obviously act with a tit for tat measure and blacklist them in return.


false analogy. They where invited.

Want to come to Russia?


perhaps to Putins funeral. The UK should have arranged that instead of sabotaging PD-50. Robust answers are good, but a bit more to the face would be better.

Don't do stupid shit or make stupid comments which will get you blacklisted. Simple.


neither of wich applies in this case, so what is your point?

best regards
Thomas
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tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:13 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
1 - In my opinion, who comes into the country is purely up to that country. I have no clue who this dude is other than from the article posted here, so I can't really say much on this individual. However there's a fine blurred line between critics and meddling in internal affairs of another nation. So if what is written in the article is true, than he fully deserves to be denied entry. Sovreignty.


He is no "dude", he is a member of Parliament. Our parliament got invited, not the individuals. So by denying entry, a Member of the Dutch Parliament got denied, not just an individual. So in diplomatic circles, it is a slap in the face of The Netherlands. Do you have any opinion about that?

tu204 wrote:
2 - Maybe yes, maybe no. He's blacklisted in quite a few countries and I would totally understand and support the decision to deny Zhirinovsky entry. Don't recall if he had any rants about the Netherlands, but if he was to go on one about "hookers and druggies" in his usual style I wouldn't be suprised if he was denied entry to you guys.


I would be very surprised if he got denied entry in the Netherlands, if he was part of an official dedication from the Russian "parliament". I do not know if any instance in which an official member of a delegation was denied entry into the Netherlands.
The Russian diplomat which was drunk in public, his wife crashed into a few cars in a drunken state, his children screaming and he was - illegally - detained by the Dutch police, which didn't know he was a diplomat, even he wasn't pushed out of the Netherlands - he was later quietly recalled, though. But if you can come up with an example, sure I will listen.

BTW, Sjoerd is a trained diplomat and was in the Dutch diplomatic corps before he got himself elected in Parliament. So I don't know why you want to compare him to someone like Zhirinovsky. His criticism of Russia has aways got substance and merit. Sure, mr. Putin would not like it, but Sjoerd always plays the ball, not the player. So do you have an opinion of the slap in the face Russia gave the Netherlands?


While I believe that western regimes that are unfriendly towards Russia deserve the occasional proverbial slap in the face. However I would have put the Netherlands pretty far down the list. Not really that important of a country with few ties with Russia and your politicians keep generally quiet when it comes to Russia.

So it was an interesting case of who to slap.
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:29 pm

tu204 wrote:
While I believe that western regimes that are unfriendly towards Russia deserve the occasional proverbial slap in the face. However I would have put the Netherlands pretty far down the list. Not really that important of a country with few ties with Russia and your politicians keep generally quiet when it comes to Russia.

So it was an interesting case of who to slap.


So being critical on facts = unfriendly in your book. Interesting way to keep up friendships if that is your general attitude towards life.

BTW The Netherlands is your second export market, so you might want to inform yourself a little better. And with the upcoming MH17 trail, your country has a vested interest. But then again, the reputation of your regime in the Netherlands can't be much lower then it is now. Russia mostly isn't that important to comment about, hence the quietness. Our politicians aren't very verbal about Vietnam, Bangladesh or Mexico. Our politicians have much more important things to worry about.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
While I believe that western regimes that are unfriendly towards Russia deserve the occasional proverbial slap in the face. However I would have put the Netherlands pretty far down the list. Not really that important of a country with few ties with Russia and your politicians keep generally quiet when it comes to Russia.

So it was an interesting case of who to slap.


So being critical on facts = unfriendly in your book. Interesting way to keep up friendships if that is your general attitude towards life.

BTW The Netherlands is your second export market, so you might want to inform yourself a little better. And with the upcoming MH17 trail, your country has a vested interest. But then again, the reputation of your regime in the Netherlands can't be much lower then it is now. Russia mostly isn't that important to comment about, hence the quietness. Our politicians aren't very verbal about Vietnam, Bangladesh or Mexico. Our politicians have much more important things to worry about.


Well your regime should worry more about your internal affairs and less about what goes on half a World away. Goes for other western regimes as well.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
alfa164
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:20 pm

tu204 wrote:
Well your regime should worry more about your internal affairs and less about what goes on half a World away. Goes for other western regimes as well.


If Putin and his cronies would stay "half a World away", that might be possible. Instead, they are determined to invade other sovereign countries, inflict themselves into other peoples' battles, and interfere in other countries' election processes. He has illusions about making Russia a mighty world power again, and delusions of adequacy in his role to carry that out. Thus he relies on subterfuge and movement in the dark of night to try to achieve his game.

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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:09 pm

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
While I believe that western regimes that are unfriendly towards Russia deserve the occasional proverbial slap in the face. However I would have put the Netherlands pretty far down the list. Not really that important of a country with few ties with Russia and your politicians keep generally quiet when it comes to Russia.

So it was an interesting case of who to slap.


So being critical on facts = unfriendly in your book. Interesting way to keep up friendships if that is your general attitude towards life.

BTW The Netherlands is your second export market, so you might want to inform yourself a little better. And with the upcoming MH17 trail, your country has a vested interest. But then again, the reputation of your regime in the Netherlands can't be much lower then it is now. Russia mostly isn't that important to comment about, hence the quietness. Our politicians aren't very verbal about Vietnam, Bangladesh or Mexico. Our politicians have much more important things to worry about.


Well your regime should worry more about your internal affairs and less about what goes on half a World away. Goes for other western regimes as well.


Well, if your countries policies, your regime, kill 193 fellow countrymen, we get a lot of refugees, your regime actively tries to manipulate our citizens, destabilizes countries, etc. it is hard to ignore your country.

We are a free country and this MEP does his job.

But indeed we should import way less oil and gas from your regime, Putin only benefits from it and it is bad for the world in general.
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:34 pm

alfa164 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Well your regime should worry more about your internal affairs and less about what goes on half a World away. Goes for other western regimes as well.


If Putin and his cronies would stay "half a World away", that might be possible. Instead, they are determined to invade other sovereign countries, inflict themselves into other peoples' battles, and interfere in other countries' election processes. He has illusions about making Russia a mighty world power again, and delusions of adequacy in his role to carry that out. Thus he relies on subterfuge and movement in the dark of night to try to achieve his game.

What comes around... goes around...


Had the west and it's cronies not done the same thing since the USSR dissolved it might or might not have been different. But the facts are that the west did meddle in the affairs of pretty much anyone there was to meddle with so we have what we have now.

Or did you expect Russia to just stand by and do nothing? Yeah, there are norms to adhere to, but if the "opponent" doesn't, then why should you? I for one thing that Russia's reactions are pretty tame and we've got a lot of playing room to catch up the the western cronies' level right now.
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tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:42 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

So being critical on facts = unfriendly in your book. Interesting way to keep up friendships if that is your general attitude towards life.

BTW The Netherlands is your second export market, so you might want to inform yourself a little better. And with the upcoming MH17 trail, your country has a vested interest. But then again, the reputation of your regime in the Netherlands can't be much lower then it is now. Russia mostly isn't that important to comment about, hence the quietness. Our politicians aren't very verbal about Vietnam, Bangladesh or Mexico. Our politicians have much more important things to worry about.


Well your regime should worry more about your internal affairs and less about what goes on half a World away. Goes for other western regimes as well.


Well, if your countries policies, your regime, kill 193 fellow countrymen, we get a lot of refugees, your regime actively tries to manipulate our citizens, destabilizes countries, etc. it is hard to ignore your country.

We are a free country and this MEP does his job.

But indeed we should import way less oil and gas from your regime, Putin only benefits from it and it is bad for the world in general.


You should have thought about that (getting a lot of refugees) before you supported fellow regimes that destabilise the shit out of countries. Note that I say "support fellow regimes" because as I said earlier the Netherlands isn't really on the forefront of this whole mess, but nonetheless didn't speak out much against state terrorism against Syria, Libya and Iraq. Maybe I am wrong, so please feel free to correct me, but where was this MP when those messes were just starting up? If he wasn't at the forefront of any protests against those acts of agression by the western regimes, he doesn't really have any right to whine and moan here.

P.S.For the mess your regimes caused in the Middle East, you guys deserve to have pretty much their entire populations come to your shores as refugees. :roll:
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:52 pm

Still trying to rewrite history I see. Don't feel like going into each of your foolish points, as you said yourself, you are missing quite a lot of knowledge.
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tu204
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:38 am

Dutchy wrote:
Still trying to rewrite history I see. Don't feel like going into each of your foolish points, as you said yourself, you are missing quite a lot of knowledge.


Where exactly am I rewriting history? Just because my view of the facts is different from yours doesn't mean I am "rewriting" anything...
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:35 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Still trying to rewrite history I see. Don't feel like going into each of your foolish points, as you said yourself, you are missing quite a lot of knowledge.


Where exactly am I rewriting history? Just because my view of the facts is different from yours doesn't mean I am "rewriting" anything...


Wikipedia wrote:
Oxford English Dictionary defines regime as "a government, especially an authoritarian one"


I find it funny and sad that you try to provoke a reaction from me to call the western democracies as a regime.

Syria: state terrorism? No, not from the western side. They attacked ISIS when the Russians, Iranians were helping the Assad regime to regain power. They prolongued the war to ensure a different outcome. And now the Syrians are almost all under control of the harsh dictator again (and Russia has his little geo-political game in place). Also at the expence of the Syrian popultion who fled where ever the Russians came.

There is one. And we all know all your other stuff you are doing. Russian propaganda is well known and that's why it is difficult to have a real discussion with our Russian friends.
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FatCat
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:01 am

What's all this rumor.
I may decide who to invite and who not, in my house.
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anrec80
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entry

Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:37 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The correct decision of the Dutch Parlement not to go. It is not up to the Russian government - or any government - to determine who is in or out a Parliamentarian dedication.


Dutch parliament should make up its mind - do they want to talk to their Russian counterparts or not. If they do - they should not include sanctioned individuals into delegations. Or - negotiate an agreement that MPs from both countries are out of sanctions lists mutually.
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:45 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Douma extended an invitation to the Dutch Parlement and then refused to let one Parlementariar in, do you have any opinion about that? Furthermore, why is this Parlementariar blacklisted? As far as I can see, his only crime is that he is critical about the Putin regime. And to be fair, I know him personally, so I know a bit about his background.


There are also Russian MPs blacklisted in EU as part of all this sanctions idiocy. Hence I don’t see anything wrong with Russia sanctioning some of European MPs as well, especially those who supported current sanctions. Despite being Russia-critical, had he not been blacklisted he would have obtained Russian visa without any issues.
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:48 pm

Dutchy wrote:
He is no "dude", he is a member of Parliament. Our parliament got invited, not the individuals. So by denying entry, a Member of the Dutch Parliament got denied, not just an individual. So in diplomatic circles, it is a slap in the face of The Netherlands. Do you have any opinion about that?


It’s a slap, I agree. But a well deserved one, I must admit. Yes, sanctions and response to them can have unexpected outcome years later. So let this incident provide Netherlands and EU one more reason to actually look for ways out of this sanctions spirals.
 
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Re: Russia refuses Dutch MP entery

Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:51 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
He is no "dude", he is a member of Parliament. Our parliament got invited, not the individuals. So by denying entry, a Member of the Dutch Parliament got denied, not just an individual. So in diplomatic circles, it is a slap in the face of The Netherlands. Do you have any opinion about that?


It’s a slap, I agree. But a well deserved one, I must admit. Yes, sanctions and response to them can have unexpected outcome years later. So let this incident provide Netherlands and EU one more reason to actually look for ways out of this sanctions spirals.


No, the reasons the sanctions were imposed are not solved. So if the Putin regime wants the sanctions lifted, they only have to obey the international rules, that's all. Let's never forget why the Putin regime is sanctioned.

The rest of your "contributions" are just as aspected from your neck of the woods.
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