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NIKV69
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Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:34 am

At first I thought I was crazy but ever since Bloomberg jumped in (of course he thinks he is the only candidate worthy of office) strange things have been happening that seem to be the media (most notably CNN) and the DNC to hurt Bernie in the Primary.

Of course the big news that the DNC changed the rules so Bloomberg could be in the Vegas Debate has been interesting most notably Michael Moore's reaction which I kind of agree with.

The thing that really has me thinking is tonight. Leading up to Monday's Iowa Caucus CNN has some sort of big poll that they were going to announce. Well lo and behold we get this hogwash that they aren't going to release the results because of one respondent?

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story ... 637168002/

Seems to me Bernie had won this poll handily and people are panicking now and didn't want that info released.

It's bad enough Bernie had the deck stacked against him in 2016 but now this? I mean I get the concern that Bernie basically gets slaughtered in the general. His policies would doom our economy and our enemies would most certainly not fear him so I would see Trump winning same states as 2016 but I don't feel Bloomberg would fair much better since his huge gun grab would guarantee he loses Ohio and the other states he would need. So I guess the DNC has really lost faith in Biden.

Discuss.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:50 am

LOL! As if you give a shyte one way or the other. No other pots to stir?

One unidentified respondent out of several hundred is claiming they didn’t list a candidate, yet you assume it’s Bernie, when it’s most likely Klobachar, Yang, or Bloomberg, if this is even true to start with?

LOL
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:00 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Of course the big news that the DNC changed the rules so Bloomberg could be in the Vegas Debate has been interesting most notably Michael Moore's reaction which I kind of agree with.


That’s all well and good but you’re only agreeing with Moore on the DNC’s underhandedness. Do you agree with his larger point that billionaires are too politically powerful and both parties too dependent on big money for the people’s voice to actually be heard?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
NIKV69
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Posts: 13411
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:25 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
LOL! As if you give a shyte one way or the other. No other pots to stir?

One unidentified respondent out of several hundred is claiming they didn’t list a candidate, yet you assume it’s Bernie, when it’s most likely Klobachar, Yang, or Bloomberg, if this is even true to start with?

LOL


I am not looking to stir a pot you are picking a fight with someone that didn't vote the same way you did 4 years ago so you default to an attack. Trump won, get over it.

As for the poll you didn't read my post, I am not saying it was Bernie who was left off I am saying they are using that as an excuse to not release the poll because Bernie won it.

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Of course the big news that the DNC changed the rules so Bloomberg could be in the Vegas Debate has been interesting most notably Michael Moore's reaction which I kind of agree with.


That’s all well and good but you’re only agreeing with Moore on the DNC’s underhandedness. Do you agree with his larger point that billionaires are too politically powerful and both parties too dependent on big money for the people’s voice to actually be heard?


I don't subscribe to that. I mean Steyer is wealthy but he isn't going about it like Bloomberg is he? I feel anybody should be allowed to run as long as the rules are fair and consistent.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:47 am

NIKV69 wrote:
I don't subscribe to that. I mean Steyer is wealthy but he isn't going about it like Bloomberg is he? I feel anybody should be allowed to run as long as the rules are fair and consistent.


Well that is what Moore has been talking about for a long time - back in 2016 as well. I don't agree with him on everything but the campaign finance system being broken is one of them. With the outlandish costs of campaigns these days, and all the baggage (and potential corruption) that comes with that, it's time to introduce national elections funded by the public where everyone gets the same limited pool of funds and has to compete on the sole basis of their personality, ideas, and smart use of limited funds. The DNC and RNC cannot be trusted to manage an equitable process.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:18 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I don't subscribe to that. I mean Steyer is wealthy but he isn't going about it like Bloomberg is he? I feel anybody should be allowed to run as long as the rules are fair and consistent.


Well that is what Moore has been talking about for a long time - back in 2016 as well. I don't agree with him on everything but the campaign finance system being broken is one of them. With the outlandish costs of campaigns these days, and all the baggage (and potential corruption) that comes with that, it's time to introduce national elections funded by the public where everyone gets the same limited pool of funds and has to compete on the sole basis of their personality, ideas, and smart use of limited funds.

Didn't they already try something to that effect and the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional?

I've never seen such a weak field of candidates among an entire party...Not one of them is generally known to at least attempt to appeal to all sides of the aisle, let alone attempt to appeal (or even attempt to make people believe they are appealing) to America in general and not just some kook fringe minority of even their own party.

The choice for Democrats in 2020 is: Which kook?

That's never a winning choice against an incumbent, let alone against an incumbent who had already broken through a handful of believed "strongholds" of the opposite party the first time.

People are going to wake up on Wednesday, November 4th, to a bloodbath...and just like the alleged media activities that were described in the opening post, many will be "shocked" because questionable media activities will be continued through the General. In reality, they (both the "shocked" and the media) will have clearly learned nothing from 2016.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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zkojq
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:52 am

The DNC hates Bernie (and Elizabeth but less so) and all candidates who want to end the gravy train of private election financing and general Washington revolving door corruption.
First to fly the 787-9
 
dmg626
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:02 pm

zkojq wrote:
The DNC hates Bernie (and Elizabeth but less so) and all candidates who want to end the gravy train of private election financing and general Washington revolving door corruption.


The DNC wants a candidate who can beat Trump. So far the front runners don’t stand a chance, Bloomberg does
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:07 pm

dmg626 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
The DNC hates Bernie (and Elizabeth but less so) and all candidates who want to end the gravy train of private election financing and general Washington revolving door corruption.


The DNC wants a candidate who can beat Trump. So far the front runners don’t stand a chance, Bloomberg does

Does he? I heard his anti-weapons (maybe someone can elaborate on what his specific plans are), as mentioned further above, this will reduce his chances in some (or even all?) swing states.
 
Okie
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:42 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Does he? I heard his anti-weapons (maybe someone can elaborate on what his specific plans are), as mentioned further above, this will reduce his chances in some (or even all?) swing states


He spent $10M for a commercial to run during the super bowl professing to remove guns from legal gun holders as part of his platform.

Here is a hint, the numbers he uses are skewed.

Okie
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:29 pm

The USG spends $4+TRILLION a year and puts its nose on every part of the economy. The money spent by all parties on the elections is trivial compared the what is controlled by winning
 
afcjets
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:39 pm

zkojq wrote:
The DNC hates Bernie (and Elizabeth but less so) and all candidates who want to end the gravy train of private election financing and general Washington revolving door corruption.

The DNC should make Bernie register as a Democrat or kick him out.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:40 pm

The Democrats have a habit of overturning the will of their own people, If not find out whats a ‘super delegate’.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:42 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The USG spends $4+TRILLION a year and puts its nose on every part of the economy. The money spent by all parties on the elections is trivial compared the what is controlled by winning


That’s true but it’s also an indirect relationship. The quality of candidates for office is directly related to the campaign finance system. Look at who the front runners were in 2016 - are those seriously the best caliber people we have to offer?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:52 pm

Like many Democrats, I am very unhappy with who has been running for the Presidential candidate and cringe at some of the polices they promote. I want someone who can beat Trump for the office. They won't if they push for open immigration, identify too much with other than White European ancestry voters, support 'Medicare for all', and pledge to raise taxes (that cannot just be on the rich and corporations).

Sanders is too old, too radical for many and recently had a heart problem.

Biden is too old, has a lot of corporate and rich baggage from being the Senator from Delaware, his support of changes in Bankruptcy laws that made it more difficult to ditch credit card and other debt, his odd behaviors with women, his poor performance as to Anita Hill during the hearings to put Clarence Thomas on the SCOTUS and blah support from non-whites.

Kolbuhar was a former prosecutor and some serious questions as to racist bias of a person she got a conviction on is rearing its ugly head. She is also kinda blah on other issues.

Warren has questions of her age, the 'Pocahontas' issue, too radical like wanting to forgive most student loans.

As to Buttiging, I don't think the country is willing to accept a Gay person as President. He also is a bit too young, has issues with getting Black voters.

Blumberg, while he has spent $100's of his millions on higher education, public health, is also power hungry. He pushed a change in the NYC law that gave his a 3rd term. He is also another 'limousine liberal', strong on liberal social issues but likely to be pro rich and corporate on many issues.

We also don't want another rich person like Blumberg, Stryer or Yang as the President, we need someone of more modest means that could relate to the working and middle class.

The Democrats need to take more pragmatic and moderate views as to immigration, especially with persons entering and residing illegally, offer more moderate relief as to student loans and consumer debt, a way to make all have affordable access to healthcare but not have to raise taxes too much or destroy good private plans. Oh, and at the next debate, make sure the background of the participants is filled with dozens of American flags or a massive one to take away a talking point of the Republicans.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:00 pm

Okie wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Does he? I heard his anti-weapons (maybe someone can elaborate on what his specific plans are), as mentioned further above, this will reduce his chances in some (or even all?) swing states


He spent $10M for a commercial to run during the super bowl professing to remove guns from legal gun holders as part of his platform.

Here is a hint, the numbers he uses are skewed.

Okie


LOL! Regurgitating Fox noise whining points. I had to laugh at their “issues” with the commercial. Things like the 2,900 children/child deaths is “patently false” (because you have to include 19 year olds to get that number). As if a parent who loses a 19 year old child, is far less grief stricken than had their child been shot just 12 months earlier. Another issue Fox had was a clip of a woman talking about her murdered child.....Fox was incensed that it was misleading because her child was 20 years old.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:03 pm

I see your points but in a lot of ways the Nov 2018 midterms previewed that this will be a massive millenials vs. boomers election. Millenial turnout was higher than expected and many people under 35 are aware this election is a huge question about what kind of future America they want. Policy is important but only to a point - voters want to know more generally where things are headed as well - keep getting screwed, or try something new? ‘Try something new’ in 2016 didn’t work out too great for the middle class - so staying on message about that will be key.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:16 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Like many Democrats, I am very unhappy with who has been running for the Presidential candidate and cringe at some of the polices they promote. I want someone who can beat Trump for the office. They won't if they push for open immigration, identify too much with other than White European ancestry voters, support 'Medicare for all', and pledge to raise taxes (that cannot just be on the rich and corporations).

Sanders is too old, too radical for many and recently had a heart problem.

Biden is too old, has a lot of corporate and rich baggage from being the Senator from Delaware, his support of changes in Bankruptcy laws that made it more difficult to ditch credit card and other debt, his odd behaviors with women, his poor performance as to Anita Hill during the hearings to put Clarence Thomas on the SCOTUS and blah support from non-whites.

Kolbuhar was a former prosecutor and some serious questions as to racist bias of a person she got a conviction on is rearing its ugly head. She is also kinda blah on other issues.

Warren has questions of her age, the 'Pocahontas' issue, too radical like wanting to forgive most student loans.

As to Buttiging, I don't think the country is willing to accept a Gay person as President. He also is a bit too young, has issues with getting Black voters.

Blumberg, while he has spent $100's of his millions on higher education, public health, is also power hungry. He pushed a change in the NYC law that gave his a 3rd term. He is also another 'limousine liberal', strong on liberal social issues but likely to be pro rich and corporate on many issues.

We also don't want another rich person like Blumberg, Stryer or Yang as the President, we need someone of more modest means that could relate to the working and middle class.

The Democrats need to take more pragmatic and moderate views as to immigration, especially with persons entering and residing illegally, offer more moderate relief as to student loans and consumer debt, a way to make all have affordable access to healthcare but not have to raise taxes too much or destroy good private plans. Oh, and at the next debate, make sure the background of the participants is filled with dozens of American flags or a massive one to take away a talking point of the Republicans.


Ah, yes! Let’s repeat the fantasy of electing a Republican Lite. That worked out so well the last time with Hillary, and the time before with John Kerry. The ONLY WAY Democrats win up and down the ballot is when Democrats turn out to vote. If the Democrats don’t nominate someone who motivates the base to show up, then Democrats will lose across the ballot.

You complain that the entire field cannot beat Trump except in every poll, each of the candidates listed beats Trump handily, or certainly more than holds their own.

You expect some fantasy candidate that will ascend from nowhere, that has no “baggage”, so Republicans can’t be mean to, and that, that fantasy candidate should run in a way that Republicans can’t attack them....like maybe they should wear a Kid Rock like suit made of the flag. Fox and Fiends are going to lie and smear about anyone running as the Democratic nominee, even if it were the reanimated corpses of Mother Theresa, Jesus, Einstein, or Jonas Salk. Running a centrist campaign that doesn’t offend anyone, and motivates no one, is a recipe for disaster and has been tried before, over and over, and over, again.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3434
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:41 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Like many Democrats, I am very unhappy with who has been running for the Presidential candidate and cringe at some of the polices they promote. I want someone who can beat Trump for the office. They won't if they push for open immigration, identify too much with other than White European ancestry voters, support 'Medicare for all', and pledge to raise taxes (that cannot just be on the rich and corporations).

Sanders is too old, too radical for many and recently had a heart problem.

Biden is too old, has a lot of corporate and rich baggage from being the Senator from Delaware, his support of changes in Bankruptcy laws that made it more difficult to ditch credit card and other debt, his odd behaviors with women, his poor performance as to Anita Hill during the hearings to put Clarence Thomas on the SCOTUS and blah support from non-whites.

Kolbuhar was a former prosecutor and some serious questions as to racist bias of a person she got a conviction on is rearing its ugly head. She is also kinda blah on other issues.

Warren has questions of her age, the 'Pocahontas' issue, too radical like wanting to forgive most student loans.

As to Buttiging, I don't think the country is willing to accept a Gay person as President. He also is a bit too young, has issues with getting Black voters.

Blumberg, while he has spent $100's of his millions on higher education, public health, is also power hungry. He pushed a change in the NYC law that gave his a 3rd term. He is also another 'limousine liberal', strong on liberal social issues but likely to be pro rich and corporate on many issues.

We also don't want another rich person like Blumberg, Stryer or Yang as the President, we need someone of more modest means that could relate to the working and middle class.

The Democrats need to take more pragmatic and moderate views as to immigration, especially with persons entering and residing illegally, offer more moderate relief as to student loans and consumer debt, a way to make all have affordable access to healthcare but not have to raise taxes too much or destroy good private plans. Oh, and at the next debate, make sure the background of the participants is filled with dozens of American flags or a massive one to take away a talking point of the Republicans.


Why not just get over it and vote for Trump?
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:01 pm

As I had figured....this wasn’t about Bernie being skipped over, it was Buttigieg. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 638545002/

Now all you Trump supporters can relax...Bernie isn’t being blackballed. LOL
 
910A
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:04 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Like many Democrats, I am very unhappy with who has been running for the Presidential candidate and cringe at some of the polices they promote. I want someone who can beat Trump for the office. They won't if they push for open immigration, identify too much with other than White European ancestry voters, support 'Medicare for all', and pledge to raise taxes (that cannot just be on the rich and corporations).


Here is a piece worth reading. Does it really matter who the Democrats choose? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/opin ... hoose.html Basically it states the the crazy policies will not see the light of day, even it they win.

Remember there is a huge bunch of center right voters who are Republicans and independents are just looking for someone to vote for that will put an end to the crazy times in Washington.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:08 pm

910A wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Like many Democrats, I am very unhappy with who has been running for the Presidential candidate and cringe at some of the polices they promote. I want someone who can beat Trump for the office. They won't if they push for open immigration, identify too much with other than White European ancestry voters, support 'Medicare for all', and pledge to raise taxes (that cannot just be on the rich and corporations).


Here is a piece worth reading. Does it really matter who the Democrats choose? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/opin ... hoose.html Basically it states the the crazy policies will not see the light of day, even it they win.

Remember there is a huge bunch of center right voters who are Republicans and independents are just looking for someone to vote for that will put an end to the crazy times in Washington.


That too. A suburban GOP mom in PA said it best about a month ago: she won’t vote Trump because she just wants the drama to end
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N583JB
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:09 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
Okie wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Does he? I heard his anti-weapons (maybe someone can elaborate on what his specific plans are), as mentioned further above, this will reduce his chances in some (or even all?) swing states


He spent $10M for a commercial to run during the super bowl professing to remove guns from legal gun holders as part of his platform.

Here is a hint, the numbers he uses are skewed.

Okie


LOL! Regurgitating Fox noise whining points. I had to laugh at their “issues” with the commercial. Things like the 2,900 children/child deaths is “patently false” (because you have to include 19 year olds to get that number). As if a parent who loses a 19 year old child, is far less grief stricken than had their child been shot just 12 months earlier. Another issue Fox had was a clip of a woman talking about her murdered child.....Fox was incensed that it was misleading because her child was 20 years old.


A 40-year old who is shot and killed is also someone's child. A 19 or 20 year old person is not a child, they are a legal adult.

Also, the woman who is on the commercial lost her adult son to gang violence. Kind of convenient of Bloomberg to use gang violence and illegal guns to try to come after law-abiding citizens who neither are in a gang nor who own their weapons illegally. Similar to saying, "your neighbor got a DUI last week, so I'm taking away your driver's license".
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:36 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The USG spends $4+TRILLION a year and puts its nose on every part of the economy. The money spent by all parties on the elections is trivial compared the what is controlled by winning


That’s true but it’s also an indirect relationship. The quality of candidates for office is directly related to the campaign finance system. Look at who the front runners were in 2016 - are those seriously the best caliber people we have to offer?


That is a function of the primary system, not the campaign finance system. Holding individual state primaries in series drives all kinds of wacky gamesmanship and empowers bizarre constituencies.

By contrast, there is no significant evidence that campaigns with a fat bankroll perform any better. Donald Trump was notable in how little he spent in 2016 with many candidates outspending multiple times over. In the general election, Hillary Clinton outspent Donald Trump by $550 million, nearly 2x what Trump spent.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:17 pm

N14AZ wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
The DNC hates Bernie (and Elizabeth but less so) and all candidates who want to end the gravy train of private election financing and general Washington revolving door corruption.


The DNC wants a candidate who can beat Trump. So far the front runners don’t stand a chance, Bloomberg does

Does he? I heard his anti-weapons (maybe someone can elaborate on what his specific plans are), as mentioned further above, this will reduce his chances in some (or even all?) swing states.


My Trump voting father said he'd vote for Bloomberg over Trump this time around if he were the nominee. Not sure if that's a widely held belief though.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:57 pm

Sign of the times? Michigan rep. Justin Amash has achieved the best fundraising of his career after leaving the GOP to become independent, and has eclipsed both his Dem and GOP competition.

https://twitter.com/hotlinejosh/status/ ... 72737?s=21
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:23 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Sign of the times? Michigan rep. Justin Amash has achieved the best fundraising of his career after leaving the GOP to become independent, and has eclipsed both his Dem and GOP competition.

https://twitter.com/hotlinejosh/status/ ... 72737?s=21


That only helps the narrative that dems should move to the middle, not move to the left.
 
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OA412
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Re: Organized effort to keep Bernie from Nomination

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:41 pm

Since the premise in OPs post appears untrue, thread is locked.
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