Dear Alll;
in opposite to Brexit and England / Wales, the EU27 seems to become more pro EU after the Brexit experience.

https://euobserver.com/political/147274

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019 ... elections/

The last election for EU parliament was a disaster for Anti EU in many countries and lately even Italy that Brexiteers consider the next country to leave seems to be more pro EU.

Why is this? What does this means for the future of EU? What will this mean for EU expensions in Balkan and UK EU relations?

Why that is? Because everybody can see the train wreck that is Brexit and figure out that the Union and further integration is the only way forward.

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

noviorbis77 wrote:

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

No, they are not. You still don't get it, contributions are just one thing, only a small thing. The EU has many benefits, not just about economics, but it is still beneficial for its member states. You will experience it for yourself next year.

Dutchy wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

contributions are just one thing

Yes many more factors, concrete or more abstract. Russia has made EU more popular in many of the member states

noviorbis77 wrote:

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

Italy are probably the next net contributor to get annoyed. France and Germany don’t care as they do what they want anyway.

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

Dutchy wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

No, they are not. You still don't get it, contributions are just one thing, only a small thing. The EU has many benefits, not just about economics, but it is still beneficial for its member states. You will experience it for yourself next year.

Well none of us know what will happen in the next 20 years

Arion640 wrote:

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

As long as there must be unanimous approval by existing nations, and several of those nations will throw it to a referendum, I don’t see Turkey joining.

Let’s be honest here, a lot of people in NL, DE and BE would sooner kick out a large amount of dual-nationality citizens (TK+NL/DE/BE) then accept Turkey. The Turkish people don’t have a good reputation, and don’t seem to be in a hurry to change that reputation either.

petertenthije wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

As long as there must be unanimous approval by existing nations, and several of those nations will throw it to a referendum, I don’t see Turkey joining.

Let’s be honest here, a lot of people in NL, DE and BE would sooner kick out a large amount of dual-nationality citizens (TK+NL/DE/BE) then accept Turkey. The Turkish people don’t have a good reputation, and don’t seem to be in a hurry to change that reputation either.

I think it will happen as soon as they get their house in order in Turkey. I think it will happen, perhaps in even 10 years time, same for Ukraine.

IMO, Turkey joining the EU is a long way away.

Arion640 wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

Italy are probably the next net contributor to get annoyed. France and Germany don’t care as they do what they want anyway.

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

Turkey will join at the same time as the EU becomes the world government, with all countries in it. Probably a couple centuries away, maybe less depending on what happens with the environment.

Dutchy wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

It is the net contributers that are most likely to question continued membership.

No, they are not. You still don't get it, contributions are just one thing, only a small thing. The EU has many benefits, not just about economics, but it is still beneficial for its member states. You will experience it for yourself next year.

Well, it is rare enough that he calls the Prime Minister a liar, so let him......

Even Johnson used to understand that contributions into the EU Budgets are penny´s on the Dollars...

Arion640 wrote:

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

Ah... Fantasy world....

Turkey can only join if every single EU member says yes to that. That is not going to happen, since Cyprus is one of them. If Turkey ever joins the EU, its not going to be the Turkey that you obviously wet your pants over, but a very different one.

best regards
Thomas

Turkey joining the EU is about as likely as a non-US team winning the "world series" of rounders.

Arion640 wrote:

I think it will happen as soon as they get their house in order in Turkey. I think it will happen, perhaps in even 10 years time, same for Ukraine.

I think it will take far longer than 10 years, Turkey may be a popular tourism destination for EU residents, but as a country and a people, they do not have a good reputation within the EU. The populations of countries like Germany or Belgium were aghast when the local Turkish diaspora voted strongly in favor of the 2017 constitutional referendum.To this day, there are serious questions around the diaspora's commitment to EU ideals such as democracy and accountability, and no appetite whatsoever for any kind of freedom of movement with Turkey (one of the pillars of EU membership).

It didn't help either that Turkish government officials repeatedly flaunted EU governments' requests not to campaign for the referendum in their countries. In the Netherlands, Turkish arrogance escalated to a point where a minister was surrounded in her car by armed police after her driver took evasive actions around a roadblock set up to prevent her attendance at a campaign rally, as ordered by the Dutch government. And they were not isolated or exclusively campaign-related events either. A Turkish official visit in the EU is seen as somewhat akin to the conquering Ottoman army coming in and trampling everything it doesn't like on its way.

To be sure, the EU needs Turkey's cooperation to prevent another flood of Syrian refugees in Greece and Italy (mostly because the EU can't solve its illegal immigrant issue internally). But there is no appetite either at the political or popular level to resume membership talks anytime soon. For one thing, Erdoğan probably would have to go...

tommy1808 wrote:

Turkey can only join if every single EU member says yes to that. That is not going to happen, since Cyprus is one of them. If Turkey ever joins the EU, its not going to be the Turkey that you obviously wet your pants over, but a very different one.

Actually, Cyprus is not opposed to it, provided that Turkey agrees to conditions broadly similar to the 2004 Amman plan (which was accepted by Turkey and rejected by Cyprus at the time, to be fair). However, Turkey has yet to implement the first step of these updated conditions, namely to allow Cypriot-registered vessels the use of Turkish of air and sea ports, in order to fully implement a trade agreement between Turkey and all EU members.

blueflyer wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Turkey can only join if every single EU member says yes to that. That is not going to happen, since Cyprus is one of them. If Turkey ever joins the EU, its not going to be the Turkey that you obviously wet your pants over, but a very different one.

Actually, Cyprus is not opposed to it, provided that Turkey agrees to conditions broadly similar to the 2004 Amman plan (which was accepted by Turkey and rejected by Cyprus at the time, to be fair).

Cyprus has rejected (and probably will keep rejecting) any plan that doesn't allow for right of return and compensation of Greek Cypriot properties in the North now in the hands of Turkish settlers.

A peoper one, not the timid attempt of the Annan plan.

With the direction Turkey has been heading for a while now I think no one expects Turkish accesion to happen in a very long time, if ever.

Arion640 wrote:

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

I see that farage's s propaganda is still going on

For Turkey (as for England) to join the EU, it will need for French people at least to vote yes. There is zero chance that it is happening (in both case) for the foreseeable future. As the Brexit referendum showed, it is so easy to vote against....;

Why would there be a referendum for Turkeys admission? We were not asked when less developed countries like Bulgaria and Romania joined. Now we have milions of Gypsies living from German welfare. We were also not asked about Mafia tax heavens like Malta and Southern Cyprus.
We never had a say when expanding the EU. It's not fair to do it for turkey only.

Zaf wrote:

Why would there be a referendum for Turkeys admission? We were not asked when less developed countries like Bulgaria and Romania joined
We never had a say when expanding the EU. It's not fair to do it for turkey only.

The Treaty of Lisbon came into force 2009, all current members where admitted under the previous treaty. In member states that have/require votes under their consitution before their government can ok the ascent under the new treaty, they will have to do that for all future members. Not all member states have such requirements.
And you always had a say, you just needed to elect a government that would vote "no" to it.

Now we have milions of Gypsies living from German welfare.

no, we don´t.

best regards
Thomas

VSMUT wrote:

Why that is? Because everybody can see the train wreck that is Brexit and figure out that the Union and further integration is the only way forward.

I don't think it's the train wreck as much as it is knowing that the remaining members have learned from the Brexit process and can choose to inflict pain and make the exit process really cumbersome for the next country that invokes Article 50. The UK was sort of complicated, considering it was a major force in the EU (in terms of economic power), but because it was an outlier on many things, the process was easier. Try to decouple a country like France, for example...phase out the euro in favor of French francs, move out all EU institutions from the country (if any), institute land checks with several countries...not an easy task.

UK exit was difficult due to the northern Ireland issue. Other countries don't have such problems. I could see Italy or Ireland leaving next which should be a much smoother process achievable within 12 months after a referendum.

Arion640 wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

As long as there must be unanimous approval by existing nations, and several of those nations will throw it to a referendum, I don’t see Turkey joining.

Let’s be honest here, a lot of people in NL, DE and BE would sooner kick out a large amount of dual-nationality citizens (TK+NL/DE/BE) then accept Turkey. The Turkish people don’t have a good reputation, and don’t seem to be in a hurry to change that reputation either.

I think it will happen as soon as they get their house in order in Turkey. I think it will happen, perhaps in even 10 years time, same for Ukraine.

Still spreading fake news...

marcelh wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

As long as there must be unanimous approval by existing nations, and several of those nations will throw it to a referendum, I don’t see Turkey joining.

Let’s be honest here, a lot of people in NL, DE and BE would sooner kick out a large amount of dual-nationality citizens (TK+NL/DE/BE) then accept Turkey. The Turkish people don’t have a good reputation, and don’t seem to be in a hurry to change that reputation either.

I think it will happen as soon as they get their house in order in Turkey. I think it will happen, perhaps in even 10 years time, same for Ukraine.

Still spreading fake news...

A lot said Poland and other Eastern bloc countries wouldn’t join. But they did. It will likely happen, not in the near term. Ukraine will certainly join, and probably Turkey too.

Zaf wrote:

UK exit was difficult due to the northern Ireland issue. Other countries don't have such problems. I could see Italy or Ireland leaving next which should be a much smoother process achievable within 12 months after a referendum.

You might forget that the real negotiations haven’t started yet and have to be finished before the end of this year.

Zaf wrote:

UK exit was difficult due to the northern Ireland issue. Other countries don't have such problems. I could see Italy or Ireland leaving next which should be a much smoother process achievable within 12 months after a referendum.

No. The difficulty still is because the UK entertained it could be possible to leave but keep all the perks.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... ssion=true

Yes it is the Daily Express I know, but my word Nexit would be hilarious.

noviorbis77 wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/774503/Nexit-more-than-half-Dutch-voters-follow-Brexit-leave-EU-Wilders-poll/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Yes it is the Daily Express I know, but my word Nexit would be hilarious.

The paper itself is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Arion640 wrote:

A lot said Poland and other Eastern bloc countries wouldn’t join. But they did. It will likely happen, not in the near term. Ukraine will certainly join, and probably Turkey too.

Ukraine will not join as long as Russia is occupying Ukraine.

Dutchy wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

A lot said Poland and other Eastern bloc countries wouldn’t join. But they did. It will likely happen, not in the near term. Ukraine will certainly join, and probably Turkey too.

Ukraine will not join as long as Russia is occupying Ukraine.

Ukraine might not have a choice to further rival Russian enlargement. The EU are also trying to compete with Russia, so all the more reason. It will happen.

Dutchy wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/774503/Nexit-more-than-half-Dutch-voters-follow-Brexit-leave-EU-Wilders-poll/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Yes it is the Daily Express I know, but my word Nexit would be hilarious.

The paper itself is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

It is a hilarious tabloid.

A poor mans Daily Mail.

Dutchy wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/774503/Nexit-more-than-half-Dutch-voters-follow-Brexit-leave-EU-Wilders-poll/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Yes it is the Daily Express I know, but my word Nexit would be hilarious.

The paper itself is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Nexit is trending on twitter. Support is growing and rightly so.

Arion640 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

A lot said Poland and other Eastern bloc countries wouldn’t join. But they did. It will likely happen, not in the near term. Ukraine will certainly join, and probably Turkey too.

Ukraine will not join as long as Russia is occupying Ukraine.

Ukraine might not have a choice to further rival Russian enlargement. The EU are also trying to compete with Russia, so all the more reason. It will happen.

EU trying to compete with Russia? On what level? The economy of Russia is about the size of the BeNeLux. Russia is small potatoes.

Arion640 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/774503/Nexit-more-than-half-Dutch-voters-follow-Brexit-leave-EU-Wilders-poll/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Yes it is the Daily Express I know, but my word Nexit would be hilarious.

The paper itself is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Nexit is trending on twitter. Support is growing and rightly so.

Please show me, if it is growing, you need to have numbers how much it was and the current numbers, so we can compare. If you do not have it, your contribution is false. Furthermore, is it relevant? Even if you can show it is growing, highly doubtful, but growing from 9% to 10% is quite meaningless, even though it is a rise of 11,1%.

The Brexit-mess has made the EU more loved. So thanks for your self-sacrifice. Wilders and Baudet don't really talk about Nexit, because they know they can't win any votes with it anymore.

But please enlighten me..............

Dutchy wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Ukraine will not join as long as Russia is occupying Ukraine.

Ukraine might not have a choice to further rival Russian enlargement. The EU are also trying to compete with Russia, so all the more reason. It will happen.

EU trying to compete with Russia? On what level? The economy of Russia is about the size of the BeNeLux. Russia is small potatoes.

They want a european army, air force and navy to compete with Russia.

Dutchy wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The paper itself is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Nexit is trending on twitter. Support is growing and rightly so.

Please show me, if it is growing, you need to have numbers how much it was and the current numbers, so we can compare. If you do not have it, your contribution is false. Furthermore, is it relevant? Even if you can show it is growing, highly doubtful, but growing from 9% to 10% is quite meaningless, even though it is a rise of 11,1%.

The Brexit-mess has made the EU more loved. So thanks for your self-sacrifice. Wilders and Baudet don't really talk about Nexit, because they know they can't win any votes with it anymore.

But please enlighten me..............

I actually don’t think any country that has the euro can ever leave the EU. It is too late for you. Poland and Denmark may be able to get away with it.

Arion640 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Nexit is trending on twitter. Support is growing and rightly so.

Please show me, if it is growing, you need to have numbers how much it was and the current numbers, so we can compare. If you do not have it, your contribution is false. Furthermore, is it relevant? Even if you can show it is growing, highly doubtful, but growing from 9% to 10% is quite meaningless, even though it is a rise of 11,1%.

The Brexit-mess has made the EU more loved. So thanks for your self-sacrifice. Wilders and Baudet don't really talk about Nexit, because they know they can't win any votes with it anymore.

But please enlighten me..............

I actually don’t think any country that has the euro can ever leave the EU. It is too late for you. Poland and Denmark may be able to get away with it.

So in other words, you do not have any backing behind your comments. And for this comment, I will leave it with you, everyone knows the truth about this anyway.

This Finnish MEP has the right idea, and she will continue the fight. https://youtu.be/9gCGFClbVjA

Olddog wrote:

Zaf wrote:

UK exit was difficult due to the northern Ireland issue. Other countries don't have such problems. I could see Italy or Ireland leaving next which should be a much smoother process achievable within 12 months after a referendum.

No. The difficulty still is because the UK entertained it could be possible to leave but keep all the perks.

That was under a different PM who didn’t believe in Brexit and was on a damage limitation, because why else would you sign up for an agreement that would leave the UK in the EU in perpetuity with no end date. Where instead of focusing on the principal of reforming how the UK will trade and function overall on a global scale.

Arion640 wrote:

This Finnish MEP has the right idea, and she will continue the fight. https://youtu.be/9gCGFClbVjA

Nice

Arion640 wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Good luck when Turkey finally joins. It WILL happen. Not in the near term but it is going to happen.

As long as there must be unanimous approval by existing nations, and several of those nations will throw it to a referendum, I don’t see Turkey joining.

Let’s be honest here, a lot of people in NL, DE and BE would sooner kick out a large amount of dual-nationality citizens (TK+NL/DE/BE) then accept Turkey. The Turkish people don’t have a good reputation, and don’t seem to be in a hurry to change that reputation either.

I think it will happen as soon as they get their house in order in Turkey. I think it will happen, perhaps in even 10 years time, same for Ukraine.

It can only happen after a Nexit which Is very unlikely on itself. Turkey and Turkish people probably have the worst reputation out of any country in The Netherlands and even the suggestion of letting them access the EU and free movement of Turkish people would be political suicide.

Dutchy wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The paper itself is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Nexit is trending on twitter. Support is growing and rightly so.

Please show me, if it is growing, you need to have numbers how much it was and the current numbers, so we can compare. If you do not have it, your contribution is false. Furthermore, is it relevant? Even if you can show it is growing, highly doubtful, but growing from 9% to 10% is quite meaningless, even though it is a rise of 11,1%. .

the usual: Lies

https://hashtagify.me/hashtag/nexit


Its trending alright.... trending down.

best regards
Thomas

Zaf wrote:

Why would there be a referendum for Turkeys admission? We were not asked when less developed countries like Bulgaria and Romania joined. Now we have milions of Gypsies living from German welfare. We were also not asked about Mafia tax heavens like Malta and Southern Cyprus.
We never had a say when expanding the EU. It's not fair to do it for turkey only.

In 2008 the French constitution was amended with this requirement (amongst other changes, like term limits for the President of the Republic), and yes it was mainly done to placate people on Turkey, but will apply to any country.

N14AZ wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Nexit is trending on twitter. Support is growing and rightly so.

I didn’t follow the discussion as I should have. So my apologies but may I ask why you openly promote the disintegration of the EU? I don’t remember your nationality, was it British? Anyhow, why „rightly so“ if I may ask.

Good question, I wonder if you will get your answer.....

It is not really a question. English nationalists openly promote the destruction of the EU, with the US right wing support.

And it is one of the reasons I heard, why the infamous Europe x Scotland was allowed on the EU building. A message telling, if you want to play ball, we are ready too.
It was rather unusually blunt be just shows how much Europe is fed up.

Olddog wrote:

It is not really a question. English nationalists openly promote the destruction of the EU, with the US right wing support..

plus the Russian Government: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/e ... S_BRI(2018)625123_EN.pdf

chapter "Disinformation and cyber-attacks in the European Union"

best regards
Thomas

Zaf wrote:

UK exit was difficult due to the northern Ireland issue. Other countries don't have such problems. I could see Italy or Ireland leaving next which should be a much smoother process achievable within 12 months after a referendum.

I can't speak for Italy, but what on earth makes you think Ireland would leave?

Because for some people Irish secret dream is to going back as an English colony

Olddog wrote:

Because for some people Irish secret dream is to going back as an English colony

plus some disconnect from the reality everybody else lives in:

Zaf wrote:

We were not asked when less developed countries like Bulgaria and Romania joined. Now we have milions of Gypsies living from German welfare.

best regards
Thomas

Braybuddy wrote:

Zaf wrote:

UK exit was difficult due to the northern Ireland issue. Other countries don't have such problems. I could see Italy or Ireland leaving next which should be a much smoother process achievable within 12 months after a referendum.

I can't speak for Italy, but what on earth makes you think Ireland would leave?

They have strong economic ties with Britain. Common travel area and ethnic relationship. They never joined Schengen. Also they not happy with EU immigration policies. In the long term I see them aligning with UK in a sort free trade area like EFTA, NAFTA etc.