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phatfarmlines
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"Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:35 am

A parent conference on diversity and inclusion in a school district outside of Detroit, MI, has a parent describing racist incidents his son endured during the school hours. This ends with another parent asking, "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Sound off on thoughts! Is the apple falling not far from the tree?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:45 am

It’s a fair question.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:51 am

Probably the same reason the asker's ancestors left Poland or Germany.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
blueflyer
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:03 am

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

It's a stupid question that is only equaled by the stupidity of your reply.

Or are you implying that it is a well-known fact that Michigan residents are all racists and foreigners who move there are asking for it and should tolerate the abuse they get?

Or in your haste to make an apology for racism, did you miss the part where the father's children were being bullied for being latinx, a term that applies equally to all Hispanics, whether they come from Mexico or were made Americans when the border was moved on them? Perhaps you are naive enough to think that bullies and racists make a distinction between Hispanics based on citizenship.

Or the other part where black students reported receiving the same level of abuse? Perhaps their mistake is they did not go back to the African sh!hole their ancestors were forcibly imported from.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:06 am

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.


Do you mean that racism and xenophobia is an appropriate or acceptable reaction to any immigrant anywhere?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:46 am

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.


So, the alleged 'mistake' of the parents ("Why didn't you stay in Mexico?") justifies bullying the kid?
 
N757ST
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:16 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
A parent conference on diversity and inclusion in a school district outside of Detroit, MI, has a parent describing racist incidents his son endured during the school hours. This ends with another parent asking, "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Sound off on thoughts! Is the apple falling not far from the tree?


Washtenaw county voting results 2016

Party affiliations:

Democrat 71%
Republican 26%

Presidential vote
Clinton 68%
Trump 26%
 
N757ST
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:20 am

A disgusting event, but that certainly isn’t trump country.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:24 am

1989worstyear wrote:
Probably the same reason the asker's ancestors left Poland or Germany.


Yes. The ones who left Poland, Germany, Italy, or wherever. The ones who came here, learned our language and customs, and joined ur society. They did not come here expecting to vote or otherwise be catered to in their native language, and expect Americans regardless of origin to walk on eggshells lest they do something that offends the non-assimilating.

And, for the record, I am of Hispanic descent myself, so spare me the cries of racism.
A big heart is commendable. An enlarged heart is a medical condition.
 
ltbewr
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:27 pm

Those that left Mexico, Central American to the USA over the last 40 years did so for reasons similar to those ancestors from Europe and Asia of generations ago - war, violence, discrimination for their ethnicity or religion, not enough jobs or inability to make enough money for them or their family to survive.
The big difference today is that the newer immigrants have likely entered or reside in the USA illegally while those of past generations did so legally or when the laws were not strongly enforced. Many in the USA see the newer generation of immigrants as taking too much of their hard earned incomes for taxes to pay for their healthcare, education, police and social welfare costs they don't need or get in general. Some of the immigrants also are, like from my area of New Jersey, from India, China, Korea, the Islamic world and tend to not integrate well or not allowed to into general communities, mostly sticking to a few towns for each group, creating more hostile reactions by European descendant people.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:16 pm

blueflyer wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

It's a stupid question that is only equaled by the stupidity of your reply.

Or are you implying that it is a well-known fact that Michigan residents are all racists and foreigners who move there are asking for it and should tolerate the abuse they get?

Or in your haste to make an apology for racism, did you miss the part where the father's children were being bullied for being latinx, a term that applies equally to all Hispanics, whether they come from Mexico or were made Americans when the border was moved on them? Perhaps you are naive enough to think that bullies and racists make a distinction between Hispanics based on citizenship.

Or the other part where black students reported receiving the same level of abuse? Perhaps their mistake is they did not go back to the African sh!hole their ancestors were forcibly imported from.


As an immigrant I've had this same question asked to me many times, I'm as lilly white as the average Norwegian, until I open my trap you'd never know I wasn't from here.

When I first moved to Norway I found a lot of things downright weird, the price, quality and range of food stuffs incredibly poor and justice weaker than a slap on the wrists with a wet bus ticket, the usual response to my issues was if you don't like it go home. So you either suck it up and get on with life or move to where you fit in. Any immigrant moving to an new country and complaining about the situation they have made for themselves by making the choice to move gets no sympathy from me, if you don't like it go home, which I was very close to doing a one point in time.

So you can take your woke attitude and shove it where the sun don't shine. It's a valid question, one which the person being asked should have a good think about it before they continue living where they live.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:18 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

It's a stupid question that is only equaled by the stupidity of your reply.

Or are you implying that it is a well-known fact that Michigan residents are all racists and foreigners who move there are asking for it and should tolerate the abuse they get?

Or in your haste to make an apology for racism, did you miss the part where the father's children were being bullied for being latinx, a term that applies equally to all Hispanics, whether they come from Mexico or were made Americans when the border was moved on them? Perhaps you are naive enough to think that bullies and racists make a distinction between Hispanics based on citizenship.

Or the other part where black students reported receiving the same level of abuse? Perhaps their mistake is they did not go back to the African sh!hole their ancestors were forcibly imported from.


As an immigrant I've had this same question asked to me many times, I'm as lilly white as the average Norwegian, until I open my trap you'd never know I wasn't from here.

When I first moved to Norway I found a lot of things downright weird, the price, quality and range of food stuffs incredibly poor and justice weaker than a slap on the wrists with a wet bus ticket, the usual response to my issues was if you don't like it go home. So you either suck it up and get on with life or move to where you fit in. Any immigrant moving to an new country and complaining about the situation they have made for themselves by making the choice to move gets no sympathy from me, if you don't like it go home, which I was very close to doing a one point in time.

So you can take your woke attitude and shove it where the sun don't shine. It's a valid question, one which the person being asked should have a good think about it before they continue living where they live.


How many Kiwis are in Norway and what historical connection to that land do they have? Case closed.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:19 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.


Do you mean that racism and xenophobia is an appropriate or acceptable reaction to any immigrant anywhere?


It's pretty simple and I say this as an immigrant myself, if you don't like the reception you get in your new country then move, it can't be any simpler than that.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:21 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
It's a stupid question that is only equaled by the stupidity of your reply.

Or are you implying that it is a well-known fact that Michigan residents are all racists and foreigners who move there are asking for it and should tolerate the abuse they get?

Or in your haste to make an apology for racism, did you miss the part where the father's children were being bullied for being latinx, a term that applies equally to all Hispanics, whether they come from Mexico or were made Americans when the border was moved on them? Perhaps you are naive enough to think that bullies and racists make a distinction between Hispanics based on citizenship.

Or the other part where black students reported receiving the same level of abuse? Perhaps their mistake is they did not go back to the African sh!hole their ancestors were forcibly imported from.


As an immigrant I've had this same question asked to me many times, I'm as lilly white as the average Norwegian, until I open my trap you'd never know I wasn't from here.

When I first moved to Norway I found a lot of things downright weird, the price, quality and range of food stuffs incredibly poor and justice weaker than a slap on the wrists with a wet bus ticket, the usual response to my issues was if you don't like it go home. So you either suck it up and get on with life or move to where you fit in. Any immigrant moving to an new country and complaining about the situation they have made for themselves by making the choice to move gets no sympathy from me, if you don't like it go home, which I was very close to doing a one point in time.

So you can take your woke attitude and shove it where the sun don't shine. It's a valid question, one which the person being asked should have a good think about it before they continue living where they live.


How many Kiwis are in Norway and what historical connection to that land do they have? Case closed.


There's about 2000, and what historical connection does the Mexican immigrant in Michigan have to the US? Case still open.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:25 pm

This is what I ask my self. According to the extreme left of the Democrat party, America is a very racist country, with bigotry everywhere. Yet they say that we should have open borders, to allow all immigrants in.

So why invite immigration and minorities to such a racist country? doesn't make sense unless you want them to be treated badly by the 'racists' in this country.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:41 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

As an immigrant I've had this same question asked to me many times, I'm as lilly white as the average Norwegian, until I open my trap you'd never know I wasn't from here.

When I first moved to Norway I found a lot of things downright weird, the price, quality and range of food stuffs incredibly poor and justice weaker than a slap on the wrists with a wet bus ticket, the usual response to my issues was if you don't like it go home. So you either suck it up and get on with life or move to where you fit in. Any immigrant moving to an new country and complaining about the situation they have made for themselves by making the choice to move gets no sympathy from me, if you don't like it go home, which I was very close to doing a one point in time.

So you can take your woke attitude and shove it where the sun don't shine. It's a valid question, one which the person being asked should have a good think about it before they continue living where they live.


How many Kiwis are in Norway and what historical connection to that land do they have? Case closed.


There's about 2000, and what historical connection does the Mexican immigrant in Michigan have to the US? Case still open.


Wow dude. The combined populations of Norway and NZ are about 10 million. There are 40 million Chicanos in the US, and we haven’t even counted immigrants both legal and not yet. Google the history of migrations in North America post-1700, you might learn something.
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casinterest
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:23 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

How many Kiwis are in Norway and what historical connection to that land do they have? Case closed.


There's about 2000, and what historical connection does the Mexican immigrant in Michigan have to the US? Case still open.


Wow dude. The combined populations of Norway and NZ are about 10 million. There are 40 million Chicanos in the US, and we haven’t even counted immigrants both legal and not yet. Google the history of migrations in North America post-1700, you might learn something.


The question is the same regardless of population.

You're also confusing legal immigration which the US actively encouraged with illegal immigration which is the issue today.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:50 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.


Do you mean that racism and xenophobia is an appropriate or acceptable reaction to any immigrant anywhere?


It's pretty simple and I say this as an immigrant myself, if you don't like the reception you get in your new country then move, it can't be any simpler than that.


By your own account, you were complaining about how things were in the country you emigrated to. You were the one who raised the issues. You then got told (maybe harshly but understandably) to leave if you didn't like it. No one likes an immigrant who wants his hosting country to be more like his own.

This family, just like the vast majority of latino families emigrating to the US, seems to have no issues whatsoever with the country they emigrated to. Their only complaint seems to be the random and unprovoked racism they are subject to.
Lack of integration is an issue which raises anger among hosts. This is understandable, to an extent, and can reasonably be discussed and debated. But this is not the case here. Is it 'fair' to expect a family who immigrated legally and who is likely making every effort to integrate to be subject to random racism? Is unprovoked racist bullying somehow ok in any part of the World?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:51 pm

casinterest wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.


So you're saying my point of view isn't relevant as an immigrant because I'm white, that's bullshit, I've been the subjected to racial abuse from Norwegians, I put most of it down to jealousy, I've done well financially.
 
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Tugger
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:23 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.


So you're saying my point of view isn't relevant as an immigrant because I'm white, that's bullshit, I've been the subjected to racial abuse from Norwegians, I put most of it down to jealousy, I've done well financially.

No, your point of view isn't irrelevant because you're white. Your point of view is irrelevant because you aren't doing anything. Aren't offering any intelligence or addressing any task in any way that contributes.

In a meeting at your work, while they are discussing the design or maybe a purchase of something needed, ask that person "Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?". Seriously. Ask that exactly. I mean it is your point of view, it is a legitimate question. So ask it.

I am curious if others at your work will think it is a legitimate question and think your point of view is relevant.

And it isn't jealousy, Norwegian's are better than you who come begging to their country looking for work and take a job from one of their own. You who come descendant from prisoners and conscripts forced to go to the southern hemisphere. And don't try to respond with actual facts as to your family heritage and why they went to New Zealand in the fist place or why you are perfectly OK to go to Norway for a job. We all already know the stories and just from hearing your accent know who you are. You should have stayed in New Zealand and helped your own country build it's industry and economy. Seriously, it's not jealousy, it's a legitimate reaction.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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casinterest
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:36 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.


So you're saying my point of view isn't relevant as an immigrant because I'm white, that's bullshit, I've been the subjected to racial abuse from Norwegians, I put most of it down to jealousy, I've done well financially.


You say it is a fair question? I say it isn't. If you go to the Doctor and complain about an ankle injury, does he ask you why you didn't stay in the land of Kiwi? It has no relevance.

People that immigrate have a right to complain about injustices without being asked why did they move here.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:39 pm

casinterest wrote:
People that immigrate have a right to complain about injustices without being asked why did they move here.

Hmmm... Don't think it extend to a "right". We all get asked stupid questions throughout our lives. There is no right to not be asked such. It doesn't mean they are legitimate questions or that they are not improper in some other way that can lead to consequences.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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casinterest
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:42 pm

Tugger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
People that immigrate have a right to complain about injustices without being asked why did they move here.

Hmmm... Don't think it extend to a "right". We all get asked stupid questions throughout our lives. There is no right to not be asked such. It doesn't mean they are legitimate questions or that they are not improper in some other way that can lead to consequences.

Tugg



I am pointing out the fairness of the question. People can ask it, but I would instantly wonder what the hell is wrong with them.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
Tugger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
People that immigrate have a right to complain about injustices without being asked why did they move here.

Hmmm... Don't think it extend to a "right". We all get asked stupid questions throughout our lives. There is no right to not be asked such. It doesn't mean they are legitimate questions or that they are not improper in some other way that can lead to consequences.

Tugg



I am pointing out the fairness of the question. People can ask it, but I would instantly wonder what the hell is wrong with them.

Understood. I think most who read the story wonder just that. (Then there are the few that, for some reason, need to try to justify the stupidity that is on display with such a question. Not sure why.)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
MaverickM11
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.


So you're saying my point of view isn't relevant as an immigrant because I'm white, that's bullshit, I've been the subjected to racial abuse from Norwegians, I put most of it down to jealousy, I've done well financially.

From this thread I'm gonna bet it was your personality, and jacked morals, not "jealousy" :roll:

N757ST wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
A parent conference on diversity and inclusion in a school district outside of Detroit, MI, has a parent describing racist incidents his son endured during the school hours. This ends with another parent asking, "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Sound off on thoughts! Is the apple falling not far from the tree?


Washtenaw county voting results 2016

Party affiliations:

Democrat 71%
Republican 26%

Presidential vote
Clinton 68%
Trump 26%

Luckily for Washtenaw the bigots are still the minority
I don't take responsibility at all
 
N867DA
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:57 pm

WesternDC6B wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
Probably the same reason the asker's ancestors left Poland or Germany.


Yes. The ones who left Poland, Germany, Italy, or wherever. The ones who came here, learned our language and customs, and joined ur society. They did not come here expecting to vote or otherwise be catered to in their native language, and expect Americans regardless of origin to walk on eggshells lest they do something that offends the non-assimilating.

And, for the record, I am of Hispanic descent myself, so spare me the cries of racism.


Some people act like as if Chicago's always dyed the river green for St. Patrick's Day or George Washington ate pizza. These immigrants didn't join our society, they made our society.

Who said Hispanics (or anyone else) can't be racist?
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:59 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

There's about 2000, and what historical connection does the Mexican immigrant in Michigan have to the US? Case still open.


Wow dude. The combined populations of Norway and NZ are about 10 million. There are 40 million Chicanos in the US, and we haven’t even counted immigrants both legal and not yet. Google the history of migrations in North America post-1700, you might learn something.


The question is the same regardless of population.

You're also confusing legal immigration which the US actively encouraged with illegal immigration which is the issue today.


It is not the same question at all. You, as a Kiwi, are largely irrelevant to the culture and history of Norway. Mexico and the US have been indelibly linked in one way or another since the very foundation of the US and its westward expansion. Much of the western US was formerly part of Nueva España, and before the Spanish came Mesoamerican peoples moved back and forth for nearly ten millenia. Regardless of their ‘status’, anyone of Mexican heritage can say they have meaningful familial or cultural connections to America in some way.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tugger
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:59 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Washtenaw county voting results 2016

Party affiliations:

Democrat 71%
Republican 26%

Presidential vote
Clinton 68%
Trump 26%

Luckily for Washtenaw the bigots are still the minority[/quote]
Don't need a majority to make things a mess.
All it takes is one gun-toting nutcase in the theatre to screw it for all the others there....

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
afcjets
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:05 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Any immigrant moving to an new country and complaining about the situation they have made for themselves by making the choice to move gets no sympathy from me, if you don't like it go home, which I was very close to doing a one point in time.

So as a parent if someone is bullying your kid at school and they're crying themselves to sleep at night, you think they should shut up or move their family back? Or did you even actually read the article?
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:08 pm

Reading this thread, I think it's kinda gross that some are justifying bigotry and racism by saying it would be "better" for immigrants to stay where they'd fit in.

Why dont we...I don't know...maybe not be racists and accept people of various ethnicities and backgrounds? Is it really that hard to be a decent person?

Don't point the finger at the immigrant for choosing to move somewhere and encountering racism....point the finger at yourself for justifying racism in the first place. We should not be bigots. Those who are, are the problem.

I am sick of the "anti-PC" crowd justifying shitty behavior.
Last edited by Aloha717200 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Tugger
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:09 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
You're also confusing legal immigration which the US actively encouraged with illegal immigration which is the issue today.
[/quote]
I just saw this. Rob, why on earth do you think this is about illegal immigration?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
AeroVega
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:48 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.

How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.


So you're saying my point of view isn't relevant as an immigrant because I'm white, that's bullshit, I've been the subjected to racial abuse from Norwegians, I put most of it down to jealousy, I've done well financially.


Are you of the opinion that Norwegians have the right to be racist towards you? Are you of the opinion that racism is a right?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:11 pm

Hundred white people stopped one white man instantly in a small town with 93% white population. I think that should be headline.
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seb146
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:15 pm

More MAGA fans emboldened by their leader. Just because a few of them are as loud as they possibly can be does not make they right or courageous. We get it: MAGA fans believe brown people are bad. MAGA fans believe no legal immigrant is brown skinned. We get it. They embrace racism.
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LMP737
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:59 pm

WesternDC6B wrote:

Yes. The ones who left Poland, Germany, Italy, or wherever. The ones who came here, learned our language and customs, and joined ur society. They did not come here expecting to vote or otherwise be catered to in their native language, and expect Americans regardless of origin to walk on eggshells lest they do something that offends the non-assimilating.

And, for the record, I am of Hispanic descent myself, so spare me the cries of racism.


What exactly is your point here? Are you trying to say that current immigrants are not assimilating like those in the past? If that's the case let me remind you what is being said about immigrants now was being said about immigrants way back when.

Where I used to live in NE Illinois at one time it was mainly German farmers. They came to the region in the mid to late 1800's. However services in a lot of Lutheran churches were conducted in German into the mid 1930's. Now you figured by then they would have been "assimilated". Today in Illinois if you hear someone speaking German it means they're a tourist. Why, because all the descendants of those German immigrants have been assimilated for quite some time. And that's what is going to happen to the current wave of immigrants.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:34 pm

I mean I guess I agree with Kiwirob in immigrants shouldn't come to a country and demand to be bent over backwards for and the hosts shouldn't have to change everything to conform to them. (I think everyone agrees with that honestly.)

But that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread. I'm not sure if he even read the article based off what he's saying.

Also, based off reading his posts for years, I agree with the other posters. Norwegians probably don't like him for many reasons, 0 of those reasons being that he's from NZ
 
LMP737
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:40 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The big difference today is that the newer immigrants have likely entered or reside in the USA illegally while those of past generations did so legally or when the laws were not strongly enforced.


There was a time in this countries history where you just showed up and got off the boat. Then the descendants of those people got to pass laws restricting the immigration of people from places like Italy, Eastern Europe, China, Japan etc, etc. Don't forget about the Jews. You should google Immigration Act of 1924.
.
ltbewr wrote:
Many in the USA see the newer generation of immigrants as taking too much of their hard earned incomes for taxes to pay for their healthcare, education, police and social welfare costs they don't need or get in general.


I always laugh when I hear this. The American people seem to have a high tolerance for trillions of dollars spent on wars, or billions spent on corporate welfare.

ltbewr wrote:
Some of the immigrants also are, like from my area of New Jersey, from India, China, Korea, the Islamic world and tend to not integrate well or not allowed to into general communities, mostly sticking to a few towns for each group, creating more hostile reactions by European descendant people.


Oh yeah, like this argument has never been used before in the countries history against Italians, Jews, Poles, Chinese, etc etc. Basically anyone who is not a WASP.
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MaverickM11
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:48 am

WesternDC6B wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
Probably the same reason the asker's ancestors left Poland or Germany.


Yes. The ones who left Poland, Germany, Italy, or wherever. The ones who came here, learned our language and customs, and joined ur society. They did not come here expecting to vote or otherwise be catered to in their native language, and expect Americans regardless of origin to walk on eggshells lest they do something that offends the non-assimilating.

And, for the record, I am of Hispanic descent myself, so spare me the cries of racism.

The head of the neo nazi groypers showing up at Don Jr's picture book show 'n tell is named Nick *Fuentes*. Roy Cohn who engineered the lavender purge was gay. Michelle Malkin is an asian pushing the white genocide narrative. You can be horrible with any background, even if it is self defeating.
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Judge1310
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:11 am

LMP737 wrote:
WesternDC6B wrote:

Yes. The ones who left Poland, Germany, Italy, or wherever. The ones who came here, learned our language and customs, and joined ur society. They did not come here expecting to vote or otherwise be catered to in their native language, and expect Americans regardless of origin to walk on eggshells lest they do something that offends the non-assimilating.

And, for the record, I am of Hispanic descent myself, so spare me the cries of racism.


Where I used to live in NE Illinois at one time it was mainly German farmers. They came to the region in the mid to late 1800's. However services in a lot of Lutheran churches were conducted in German into the mid 1930's. Now you figured by then they would have been "assimilated". Today in Illinois if you hear someone speaking German it means they're a tourist. Why, because all the descendants of those German immigrants have been assimilated for quite some time. And that's what is going to happen to the current wave of immigrants.


You're leaving out a huge part of the story as to why German isn't as widely-spoken as other languages yet a huge diaspora exists here in the USA -- just a little thing called World War I. (Link: https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/116243 ) The Germans were "assimilated" because, under threat of prosecution, fear of reprisals, and simple bigotry, foreign-language speaking Americans were forced to conduct all public communication in English. Fortunately, in large urban centres like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago, foreign language (L1) speakers could (and would) speak their maternal tongues at shops, home, religious houses, etc.
 
Airstud
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:51 am

Here is what I believe happened:

Tom Burtell heard Adrian Iraola speaking about racist taunts he believed his son had been subjected to. Burtell interpreted this as a complaint about the treatment the Iraola family was receiving in America, which needed reconciling with Iraola's decision to come to America, see.

Perhaps Burtell misconstrued Iraola's meaning. I do not know if Iraola was in fact complaining, because we never heard the entirety of what he had to say.

What I absolutely do know is that there is a visible contingent of Americans who are eager, even desperate, to flash the "NOT A RACIST" neon sign over their heads, and that room in Michigan was full of them. They stamped "RACIST" on Burtell, and vocally ordered him "OUT!!!" of the room - without asking for any discourse pertaining to what he had said; pertaining to what they were reacting to.

The person in charge did not invite Burtell up to the microphone and say, "Would you please elaborate on what you meant to ask Mr. Iraola?"

What happened instead, in response to one brief, imperfectly phrased, open-to-interpretation question, was not dissimilar from the shite that happened in Salem in 1692.
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LMP737
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:55 am

Judge1310 wrote:

You're leaving out a huge part of the story as to why German isn't as widely-spoken as other languages yet a huge diaspora exists here in the USA -- just a little thing called World War I. (Link: https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/116243 ) The Germans were "assimilated" because, under threat of prosecution, fear of reprisals, and simple bigotry, foreign-language speaking Americans were forced to conduct all public communication in English. Fortunately, in large urban centres like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago, foreign language (L1) speakers could (and would) speak their maternal tongues at shops, home, religious houses, etc.


It might have speed up the process in certain areas but in the end it was inevitable that German would not be as widely spoken as it once was. Why, time. The big wave of German immigration was in the mid to late 1800's. It's been figured that the third generation will no longer speak the native language. I'm sure more thatn three generations have passed since the last big wave of German immigration.
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maint123
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:34 am

Trump and brexit has main streamed racism in usa ,uk and the western world. Opinions which would be considered offensive a decade back in a public gathering or even forum , are voiced blatantly now.
Welcome to the worlds best democracy.
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:05 am

Airstud wrote:
Here is what I believe happened:

Tom Burtell heard Adrian Iraola speaking about racist taunts he believed his son had been subjected to. Burtell interpreted this as a complaint about the treatment the Iraola family was receiving in America, which needed reconciling with Iraola's decision to come to America, see.

Perhaps Burtell misconstrued Iraola's meaning. I do not know if Iraola was in fact complaining, because we never heard the entirety of what he had to say.

What I absolutely do know is that there is a visible contingent of Americans who are eager, even desperate, to flash the "NOT A RACIST" neon sign over their heads, and that room in Michigan was full of them. They stamped "RACIST" on Burtell, and vocally ordered him "OUT!!!" of the room - without asking for any discourse pertaining to what he had said; pertaining to what they were reacting to.

The person in charge did not invite Burtell up to the microphone and say, "Would you please elaborate on what you meant to ask Mr. Iraola?"

What happened instead, in response to one brief, imperfectly phrased, open-to-interpretation question, was not dissimilar from the shite that happened in Salem in 1692.


Howdy,

I think that in many cases this would be valid. However, I believe this question, in its many forms, regarding going back to where one came from is indicative of a few things. And most often, these things very are quite racist. It’s sort of like a verbal maga hat. That said, It would have been amusing to hear this guys explanation. I’d definitely support his opportunity to speak, if not with ulterior motives.

Also, I sort of feel you about the folks at the meeting showing how not-racist they are. It can be annoying in how contrived it is. But on the other hand, people can be annoying and somewhat simple, and I’d take the obnoxiously un-racist than the reciprocal.

Personally, I really like Mexican and Latin American cultures and truly wonder what is so despised about them. I’d be bummed if they all “went home”.

Anyway, interesting discussion!

Regards
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:21 am

Airstud wrote:
Here is what I believe happened:

Tom Burtell heard Adrian Iraola speaking about racist taunts he believed his son had been subjected to. Burtell interpreted this as a complaint about the treatment the Iraola family was receiving in America, which needed reconciling with Iraola's decision to come to America, see.

Perhaps Burtell misconstrued Iraola's meaning. I do not know if Iraola was in fact complaining, because we never heard the entirety of what he had to say.

What I absolutely do know is that there is a visible contingent of Americans who are eager, even desperate, to flash the "NOT A RACIST" neon sign over their heads, and that room in Michigan was full of them. They stamped "RACIST" on Burtell, and vocally ordered him "OUT!!!" of the room - without asking for any discourse pertaining to what he had said; pertaining to what they were reacting to.

The person in charge did not invite Burtell up to the microphone and say, "Would you please elaborate on what you meant to ask Mr. Iraola?"

What happened instead, in response to one brief, imperfectly phrased, open-to-interpretation question, was not dissimilar from the shite that happened in Salem in 1692.


Let's just assume that is what happened.

I don't like language policing and I can see nuance in things, but come on, saying "why don't you go back to Mexico" is probably the poorest way to word something. I'm not sure what kind of reaction he was expecting.

I'll add that I think someone that isn't so racist and simply misconstrued something probably wouldn't say that either. They'd probably say "that seems pretty disrespectful, our county took you in and provided you with X and you're complaining about Y" etc

I do think people can jump on the anti-racist bandwagon to an absurd degree. When people would say "All Lives Matter," I actually could understand why some people took offense to that phrase, but it was legitimately not meant to offend (or they disagreed with the premise that it undermined BLM.) But there was so much of the mob mentality, like saying All Lives Matter is the worst thing in the world. Idk, why don't you complain about what they actually do or don't do rather than a phrase that is correct at face value and probably wasn't said to belittle anyone
 
jetero
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:50 am

There’s no need to have an opinion on everything

But I guess it’s a thing

No one quotes what his son, a veteran said

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive. ... utType=amp
 
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seb146
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:30 am

jetero wrote:
There’s no need to have an opinion on everything

But I guess it’s a thing

No one quotes what his son, a veteran said

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive. ... utType=amp


Two reasons this is not a story:

1. It does not sell
2. The son's opinion does not show who Republicans are.
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Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:45 am

Tugger wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
How is it a fair question?
The man is complaining about racism, which does not know any international boundaries. Americans face racism every day, even if they were born here . That he is an immigrant has no merit towards that question of racism.


So you're saying my point of view isn't relevant as an immigrant because I'm white, that's bullshit, I've been the subjected to racial abuse from Norwegians, I put most of it down to jealousy, I've done well financially.

No, your point of view isn't irrelevant because you're white. Your point of view is irrelevant because you aren't doing anything. Aren't offering any intelligence or addressing any task in any way that contributes.

In a meeting at your work, while they are discussing the design or maybe a purchase of something needed, ask that person "Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?". Seriously. Ask that exactly. I mean it is your point of view, it is a legitimate question. So ask it.

I am curious if others at your work will think it is a legitimate question and think your point of view is relevant.

And it isn't jealousy, Norwegian's are better than you who come begging to their country looking for work and take a job from one of their own. You who come descendant from prisoners and conscripts forced to go to the southern hemisphere. And don't try to respond with actual facts as to your family heritage and why they went to New Zealand in the fist place or why you are perfectly OK to go to Norway for a job. We all already know the stories and just from hearing your accent know who you are. You should have stayed in New Zealand and helped your own country build it's industry and economy. Seriously, it's not jealousy, it's a legitimate reaction.

Tugg


Way to confuse the situation and show complete ignorance about NZ at the same time. People wanted to immigrate to NZ, NZ was never a penal colony, Australia on the other had was a penal colony, people didn't willingly want to go there.

I moved to Norway because I married a Norwegian, are you now against multi cultural marriages?

It goes back to my initial point its a fair question to ask, if you're not happy with your current situation, go home or move to a location in your new country where you fit in.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:48 am

afcjets wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Any immigrant moving to an new country and complaining about the situation they have made for themselves by making the choice to move gets no sympathy from me, if you don't like it go home, which I was very close to doing a one point in time.

So as a parent if someone is bullying your kid at school and they're crying themselves to sleep at night, you think they should shut up or move their family back? Or did you even actually read the article?


Why would my kids be bullied, they are Norwegians, the look and talk the same as any Norwegian kid.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: "Then Why Didn't You Stay in Mexico?"

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:09 am

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s a fair question.


It's only fair if the immigrant didn't make an attempt to assimilate with the local populace.

But if they do, then it wouldn't be fair.
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