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Airstud
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Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:36 am

You really can't invent this kind of stupidity.

(I also have to wonder what a Bible thumper is doing in the Democratic party in the first place.)


(And while we're wondering things, if she voted for Buttigieg then why is she wearing an Amy Klobuchar button? :boggled: )
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fr8mech
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:08 am

Airstud wrote:
(I also have to wonder what a Bible thumper is doing in the Democratic party in the first place.)


Because, the world is not black and white. There are many shades of gray. Not everyone toes the party line.

When we re-learn or remember that, maybe we can get back to civil discussions about politics.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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flipdewaf
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Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:18 am

Anyone who claims to use be bible for moral guidance is either lying, fooled or (in my opinion) a horrible human being.
Luckily most people I come in to direct contact with aren’t the final category

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N14AZ
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:50 am

I love how the lady with that purple jacket looks during the conversation between the young lady and that lady who wants to withdraw her vote. :'))))))
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:47 pm

If I had been the precinct captain I would have likely lost my patience with her once she whipped out the Bible argument.

"The Bible says man and woman". Yes, Karen. The Bible also says that a woman is to remain silent (old AND new testaments), but I don't see you abiding by that argument.
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Tugger
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:10 pm

This is a very sad but very real example of why I do not think Buttigieg would be electable as a Presidential candidate. He should be, it is not fair, but it is a reality.

He may be a good guy, have good ideas, and if elected could be a good president, but I think there are too many of her out there ultimately:
"Oh wait, he's gay? He has a husband? They'll sleep together in the White House? They'll attend events as husband and husband representing the USA? I'll have to watch it and read about it and think about what they are doing for the 4-8 years he'll be president?"

It's not right, but it is a problem for him. Sadly.

Tugg
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afcjets
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:10 pm

This is precisely why people should not be encouraged to get out and vote. If you don't know what you're doing or basic facts and issues, for the love of God, please stay home.
 
slider
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:11 pm

There's a reason Iowa stands for "Idiots Out Wandering Around."

My problem with him is his politics; not his sexual orientation. He's actually one of the more agreeable, less abrasive ones in the Demoncat stable these days. Wholly unqualified, but seems like a decent enough fellow on the surface.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:14 pm

slider wrote:
There's a reason Iowa stands for "Idiots Out Wandering Around."

My problem with him is his politics; not his sexual orientation. He's actually one of the more agreeable, less abrasive ones in the Demoncat stable these days. Wholly unqualified, but seems like a decent enough fellow on the surface.


And a Veteran - something no POTUS has actually been since 41, and his service was in freaking WW2.
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Aesma
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:03 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Airstud wrote:
(I also have to wonder what a Bible thumper is doing in the Democratic party in the first place.)


Because, the world is not black and white. There are many shades of gray. Not everyone toes the party line.

When we re-learn or remember that, maybe we can get back to civil discussions about politics.


Well I see nothing civil in what she's saying, she could have thought that and shut up, but instead chose to say something horrible, "someone like that can't be president", she has to bear the consequences.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:11 pm

Tugger wrote:
This is a very sad but very real example of why I do not think Buttigieg would be electable as a Presidential candidate. He should be, it is not fair, but it is a reality.


Tugg


This was the same argument people used about Obama, he won't be president because he is black.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
LMP737
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:42 pm

I said it before and I'll say it again, there's no way a gay man will be elected as President. There are too many people in this country who will not be able to look past that and will vote for Trump just because he's gay.

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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:02 pm

I can think of quite a few good reasons to not want Mayor Pete as President, but his sexual orientation is not one of them.

Fact is, of the entire Democrat presidential candidate fracas, he may be the best.
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seb146
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:03 pm

This is what I have been trying to point out about rural America. They keep talking about "I don't care what consenting adults do together" but, the reality is, they do care very much. What that one Bible verse says is more important and they base their votes on that one verse. They get all snowflakey and believe they deserve compensation because they do not want to bake a cake or rent a room or treat others as they would want to be treated.

No, we will never have a gay president. All because of people like this.
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seb146
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:05 pm

sccutler wrote:
I can think of quite a few good reasons to not want Mayor Pete as President, but his sexual orientation is not one of them.

Fact is, of the entire Democrat presidential candidate fracas, he may be the best.


slider wrote:
My problem with him is his politics; not his sexual orientation. He's actually one of the more agreeable, less abrasive ones in the Demoncat stable these days. Wholly unqualified, but seems like a decent enough fellow on the surface.


I didn't realize there is a third party that Pete had converted to?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:06 pm

sccutler wrote:
I can think of quite a few good reasons to not want Mayor Pete as President, but his sexual orientation is not one of them.

Fact is, of the entire Democrat presidential candidate fracas, he may be the best.


slider wrote:
My problem with him is his politics; not his sexual orientation. He's actually one of the more agreeable, less abrasive ones in the Demoncat stable these days. Wholly unqualified, but seems like a decent enough fellow on the surface.


I didn't realize there is a third party that Pete had converted to?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:22 pm

seb146 wrote:
No, we will never have a gay president. All because of people like this.

... and your election system, if I may add.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:34 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
This is a very sad but very real example of why I do not think Buttigieg would be electable as a Presidential candidate. He should be, it is not fair, but it is a reality.


Tugg


This was the same argument people used about Obama, he won't be president because he is black.

It's not really the same argument, there are similarities, deep seated irrational and immoral prejudices, but there are significant differences. The primary one being that racial reform (acknowledgement by a majority of the public that there is a failure in our treatment of other who are our equals that must be addressed) is far further along than our acknowledgement of the same regarding the LGBTetc. community.

Racial reform began back.... when? prior to the Civil War with significant legal and legislated progress coming in the 60's? And still it was a concern in the 2000's. The changes in our acknowledgement of the LGBTetc. community has been going on now for something like 40 years max?

So it is not the same thing at all. Yes the argument is similar but our reconciliation with it is not at all the same.

Tugg
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:45 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
This is a very sad but very real example of why I do not think Buttigieg would be electable as a Presidential candidate. He should be, it is not fair, but it is a reality.


Tugg


This was the same argument people used about Obama, he won't be president because he is black.

It's not really the same argument, there are similarities, deep seated irrational and immoral prejudices, but there are significant differences. The primary one being that racial reform (acknowledgement by a majority of the public that there is a failure in our treatment of other who are our equals that must be addressed) is far further along than our acknowledgement of the same regarding the LGBTetc. community.

Racial reform began back.... when? prior to the Civil War with significant legal and legislated progress coming in the 60's? And still it was a concern in the 2000's. The changes in our acknowledgement of the LGBTetc. community has been going on now for something like 40 years max?

So it is not the same thing at all. Yes the argument is similar but our reconciliation with it is not at all the same.

Tugg


I really don't think that's an issue today in America. Donald Trump was a Democrat from New York, married 3 times, pro-choice, known to be a womanizer, not religious, and yet got the vote of all the demographics of people who won't be associated with those leanings.

Bottom line is, Americans vote for the candidate not based on personal identity, but rather the issues, the ideas, the message. Even if millions are against his message, that's what get him elected.

Mayor Pete, nice guy, won't vote for him not because he is gay, but rather his ideas, policies don't align with mines. If a gay republican aligns with that, I am sure he will earn my vote and the vote of the people the left labels homophobes etc.

This it what I exposed in my thread of 'identity politics'. Something Mayor Pete has used in his campaign:
Pete Buttigieg says his experience as a gay man helps him understand the importance of the African American struggle.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:51 pm

I still cannot figgure out why Christians are still using the Old Testament. There was this guy they nailed to a cross that created what he calls the "New Covenant." Pissed off the writers of the Old Testament something awful!!
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Tugger
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:04 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

This was the same argument people used about Obama, he won't be president because he is black.

It's not really the same argument, there are similarities, deep seated irrational and immoral prejudices, but there are significant differences. The primary one being that racial reform (acknowledgement by a majority of the public that there is a failure in our treatment of other who are our equals that must be addressed) is far further along than our acknowledgement of the same regarding the LGBTetc. community.

Racial reform began back.... when? prior to the Civil War with significant legal and legislated progress coming in the 60's? And still it was a concern in the 2000's. The changes in our acknowledgement of the LGBTetc. community has been going on now for something like 40 years max?

So it is not the same thing at all. Yes the argument is similar but our reconciliation with it is not at all the same.

Tugg


I really don't think that's an issue today in America. Donald Trump was a Democrat from New York, married 3 times, pro-choice, known to be a womanizer, not religious, and yet got the vote of all the demographics of people who won't be associated with those leanings.

Bottom line is, Americans vote for the candidate not based on personal identity, but rather the issues, the ideas, the message. Even if millions are against his message, that's what get him elected.

Mayor Pete, nice guy, won't vote for him not because he is gay, but rather his ideas, policies don't align with mines. If a gay republican aligns with that, I am sure he will earn my vote and the vote of the people the left labels homophobes etc.

This it what I exposed in my thread of 'identity politics'. Something Mayor Pete has used in his campaign:
Pete Buttigieg says his experience as a gay man helps him understand the importance of the African American struggle.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

It is an issue in today's America. And especially so with many who identify as Republican but as you can see here it is equally an issue with many who identify as Democrat.

I note the Republican party (even though this instance is a glaring example of the problem the Dems also have) because it is right there in the GOP platform:

Defending Marriage Against an Activist Judiciary
Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society and has for millennia been entrusted with rearing children and instilling cultural values.

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/ ... atform.pdf
https://www.gop.com/platform/

This continue into support of religious based entities that discriminate against LBGT couple adoptions etc.

So the Dems got a problem and the Republican have it as platform. It is what it is.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Aesma
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:26 pm

Another difference between being "of color" and being gay is that one is obvious, the other not necessarily. Who's to say there hasn't been a gay president already ?
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Tugger
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
Another difference between being "of color" and being gay is that one is obvious, the other not necessarily. Who's to say there hasn't been a gay president already ?

Absolutely. It is possible but historians have dug pretty deeply and so far not unearthed that as a fact. (I had someone offer up Hoover once but they were confusing Hebert with J. Edgar).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
apodino
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:57 pm

Airstud wrote:
You really can't invent this kind of stupidity.

(I also have to wonder what a Bible thumper is doing in the Democratic party in the first place.)


(And while we're wondering things, if she voted for Buttigieg then why is she wearing an Amy Klobuchar button? :boggled: )


A couple of thoughts on this. She could have been for Klobuchar on the initial vote, then at her precinct Klobuchar may not have had 15 percent so she switched to Buttigieg after realignment. Still, anyone who pays even half attention to the news know that Buttigieg is in a civil marriage to a man.

That being said, everyone has the right to vote in this country. We cannot and should not vet any voters based on intelligence, because that opens up a whole different can of worms. But, I am shocked that someone like this is participating in a Democratic Caucus in the first place. Then again, there have been democrats who have not issued certificates to gay couples. Kim Davis is probably the best known example.
 
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:00 pm

Aesma wrote:

Well I see nothing civil in what she's saying, she could have thought that and shut up, but instead chose to say something horrible, "someone like that can't be president", she has to bear the consequences.


Actually, I wasn’t addressing her statement. I was addressing the OP’s suggestion that a Bible thumper, who isn’t comfortable was same-sex relationships can’t be be in the Democratic Party.

People are comfortable dropping others into a cubby hole. Classifying folks based on a statement or 2. This woman may be the most virulent lefty out there, but she holds one position contrary to the party line, and she becomes persona non-grata.

What’s that called now? Intersectionality?

That’s my problem with this “controversy”.

Wasn’t it Reagan that said something about 80% agreement?
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:12 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
It's not really the same argument, there are similarities, deep seated irrational and immoral prejudices, but there are significant differences. The primary one being that racial reform (acknowledgement by a majority of the public that there is a failure in our treatment of other who are our equals that must be addressed) is far further along than our acknowledgement of the same regarding the LGBTetc. community.

Racial reform began back.... when? prior to the Civil War with significant legal and legislated progress coming in the 60's? And still it was a concern in the 2000's. The changes in our acknowledgement of the LGBTetc. community has been going on now for something like 40 years max?

So it is not the same thing at all. Yes the argument is similar but our reconciliation with it is not at all the same.

Tugg


I really don't think that's an issue today in America. Donald Trump was a Democrat from New York, married 3 times, pro-choice, known to be a womanizer, not religious, and yet got the vote of all the demographics of people who won't be associated with those leanings.

Bottom line is, Americans vote for the candidate not based on personal identity, but rather the issues, the ideas, the message. Even if millions are against his message, that's what get him elected.

Mayor Pete, nice guy, won't vote for him not because he is gay, but rather his ideas, policies don't align with mines. If a gay republican aligns with that, I am sure he will earn my vote and the vote of the people the left labels homophobes etc.

This it what I exposed in my thread of 'identity politics'. Something Mayor Pete has used in his campaign:
Pete Buttigieg says his experience as a gay man helps him understand the importance of the African American struggle.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

It is an issue in today's America. And especially so with many who identify as Republican but as you can see here it is equally an issue with many who identify as Democrat.

I note the Republican party (even though this instance is a glaring example of the problem the Dems also have) because it is right there in the GOP platform:

Defending Marriage Against an Activist Judiciary
Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society and has for millennia been entrusted with rearing children and instilling cultural values.

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/ ... atform.pdf
https://www.gop.com/platform/

This continue into support of religious based entities that discriminate against LBGT couple adoptions etc.

So the Dems got a problem and the Republican have it as platform. It is what it is.

Tugg


You could have this issue on the Democrat side, just recently a Pro-life democrat woman asked a question to Buttigieg about Abortion, basically saying there wasn't room for her on her party because of her views. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... pro-lifers

The DNC platform unequivocally supports abortion, that alienates also many voters who are pro-life. https://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/201 ... ortion.htm

If we are going to judge based on the published platforms you will find alienated voters on both sides.

Like the poster above mentioned, the Democrat party is becoming way too extreme, such and so that if anyone deviates from party line, its completely out of it and not accepted.

I can assure you that there are many gay Republicans out there, and not necessarily they believe in all of the party's platform or published party lines and they are welcome to participate and add ideas to the national platform.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:29 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
This it what I exposed in my thread of 'identity politics'. Something Mayor Pete has used in his campaign:
Pete Buttigieg says his experience as a gay man helps him understand the importance of the African American struggle.

People who were offended by this need to get a life. It's almost like Blacks are the only people that have ever been discriminated. While a White gay man may enjoy more privileges than a straight Black guy, the Black guy is now able to marry whoever he wants; the Black guy can walk to any place with the knowledge that he cannot be denied service because of his race. A White gay man cannot say he has the same luxury. Years ago, in the same way that Blacks were lynched, gays were subjected to hate crimes, and today there are sporadic hate crimes against them.

So when a White gay man tells me that being gay has helped him understand the struggles of another, I would view that as a positive. Blacks struggled because of race; gays struggle because of sexual preference. You can't hide being Black, true, but being protected, they can't deny you service anymore.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
This it what I exposed in my thread of 'identity politics'. Something Mayor Pete has used in his campaign:
Pete Buttigieg says his experience as a gay man helps him understand the importance of the African American struggle.

People who were offended by this need to get a life. It's almost like Blacks are the only people that have ever been discriminated. While a White gay man may enjoy more privileges than a straight Black guy, the Black guy is now able to marry whoever he wants; the Black guy can walk to any place with the knowledge that he cannot be denied service because of his race. A White gay man cannot say he has the same luxury. Years ago, in the same way that Blacks were lynched, gays were subjected to hate crimes, and today there are sporadic hate crimes against them.

So when a White gay man tells me that being gay has helped him understand the struggles of another, I would view that as a positive. Blacks struggled because of race; gays struggle because of sexual preference. You can't hide being Black, true, but being protected, they can't deny you service anymore.


I can assure you I wasn't offended. What strikes me is this necessity to keep using whatever card anyone has. Particularly when Pete is a Rhode scholar who went to Harvard and Oxford. I wonder how can any minority can relate to him and the struggles anyone can have, only because he was gay, when you have this ivy league school guy trying to relate to people who may have had real issues, let alone perhaps not even attending college or finishing high school.

I like the fact the guy served, to me that earns from me my deepest respect. But using the identity politics game here is a non starter for me considering his privileged background. We all deal with issues, what ever race or sexual orientation we might have, some more than others, but lets stop trying to think we are in the same level as the average person, when you are not.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:40 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
If I had been the precinct captain I would have likely lost my patience with her once she whipped out the Bible argument.

"The Bible says man and woman". Yes, Karen. The Bible also says that a woman is to remain silent (old AND new testaments), but I don't see you abiding by that argument.

Timothy 2 12: one of my faves! :rotfl:

Tugger wrote:
I note the Republican party (even though this instance is a glaring example of the problem the Dems also have) because it is right there in the GOP platform:

Defending Marriage Against an Activist Judiciary
Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society and has for millennia been entrusted with rearing children and instilling cultural values.

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/ ... atform.pdf
https://www.gop.com/platform/

This continue into support of religious based entities that discriminate against LBGT couple adoptions etc.

So the Dems got a problem and the Republican have it as platform. It is what it is.

Tugg

The GOP has put the car in reverse on LGBTQ rights, and hit the gas. And I say that as a former Log Cabin Republican.

fr8mech wrote:
People are comfortable dropping others into a cubby hole. Classifying folks based on a statement or 2. This woman may be the most virulent lefty out there, but she holds one position contrary to the party line, and she becomes persona non-grata.

LOL your party wants to draw and quarter Romney right now, and has installed an all gender outhouse on McCain's grave. Your party has literally become the deranged musings of one man.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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seb146
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:01 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
This it what I exposed in my thread of 'identity politics'. Something Mayor Pete has used in his campaign:

People who were offended by this need to get a life. It's almost like Blacks are the only people that have ever been discriminated. While a White gay man may enjoy more privileges than a straight Black guy, the Black guy is now able to marry whoever he wants; the Black guy can walk to any place with the knowledge that he cannot be denied service because of his race. A White gay man cannot say he has the same luxury. Years ago, in the same way that Blacks were lynched, gays were subjected to hate crimes, and today there are sporadic hate crimes against them.

So when a White gay man tells me that being gay has helped him understand the struggles of another, I would view that as a positive. Blacks struggled because of race; gays struggle because of sexual preference. You can't hide being Black, true, but being protected, they can't deny you service anymore.


I can assure you I wasn't offended. What strikes me is this necessity to keep using whatever card anyone has. Particularly when Pete is a Rhode scholar who went to Harvard and Oxford. I wonder how can any minority can relate to him and the struggles anyone can have, only because he was gay, when you have this ivy league school guy trying to relate to people who may have had real issues, let alone perhaps not even attending college or finishing high school.

I like the fact the guy served, to me that earns from me my deepest respect. But using the identity politics game here is a non starter for me considering his privileged background. We all deal with issues, what ever race or sexual orientation we might have, some more than others, but lets stop trying to think we are in the same level as the average person, when you are not.


GWB is an Ivy League grad, thanks to his father and grandfather. Thanks to his family legacy, he has money, also. Not really relateable to the coal miners and truck drivers and nurses and cashiers living hand-to-mouth. But, GWB is heterosexual. So what? All these Republicans whine about "we don't care about gay or straight" but, when it comes right down to it, that is a hot button issue for them.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
People who were offended by this need to get a life. It's almost like Blacks are the only people that have ever been discriminated. While a White gay man may enjoy more privileges than a straight Black guy, the Black guy is now able to marry whoever he wants; the Black guy can walk to any place with the knowledge that he cannot be denied service because of his race. A White gay man cannot say he has the same luxury. Years ago, in the same way that Blacks were lynched, gays were subjected to hate crimes, and today there are sporadic hate crimes against them.

So when a White gay man tells me that being gay has helped him understand the struggles of another, I would view that as a positive. Blacks struggled because of race; gays struggle because of sexual preference. You can't hide being Black, true, but being protected, they can't deny you service anymore.


I can assure you I wasn't offended. What strikes me is this necessity to keep using whatever card anyone has. Particularly when Pete is a Rhode scholar who went to Harvard and Oxford. I wonder how can any minority can relate to him and the struggles anyone can have, only because he was gay, when you have this ivy league school guy trying to relate to people who may have had real issues, let alone perhaps not even attending college or finishing high school.

I like the fact the guy served, to me that earns from me my deepest respect. But using the identity politics game here is a non starter for me considering his privileged background. We all deal with issues, what ever race or sexual orientation we might have, some more than others, but lets stop trying to think we are in the same level as the average person, when you are not.


GWB is an Ivy League grad, thanks to his father and grandfather. Thanks to his family legacy, he has money, also. Not really relateable to the coal miners and truck drivers and nurses and cashiers living hand-to-mouth. But, GWB is heterosexual. So what? All these Republicans whine about "we don't care about gay or straight" but, when it comes right down to it, that is a hot button issue for them.


Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.
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fr8mech
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:06 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
LOL your party wants to draw and quarter Romney right now, and has installed an all gender outhouse on McCain's grave. Your party has literally become the deranged musings of one man.


There you are, dropping me into a cubby hole.

Did I say this problem was confined to one party? No, it tends to be a problem on both sides, especially at the extremes.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Call me crazy, but the amount of people that wouldn't vote for a gay guy but would turn around and vote for a democratic socialist is probably pretty low

I don't know, I'm sure they're out there. I just don't think being gay is the deal breaker it once was. And again, the people that have a problem with it probably have issues with the other Dems
 
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seb146
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:30 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I can assure you I wasn't offended. What strikes me is this necessity to keep using whatever card anyone has. Particularly when Pete is a Rhode scholar who went to Harvard and Oxford. I wonder how can any minority can relate to him and the struggles anyone can have, only because he was gay, when you have this ivy league school guy trying to relate to people who may have had real issues, let alone perhaps not even attending college or finishing high school.

I like the fact the guy served, to me that earns from me my deepest respect. But using the identity politics game here is a non starter for me considering his privileged background. We all deal with issues, what ever race or sexual orientation we might have, some more than others, but lets stop trying to think we are in the same level as the average person, when you are not.


GWB is an Ivy League grad, thanks to his father and grandfather. Thanks to his family legacy, he has money, also. Not really relateable to the coal miners and truck drivers and nurses and cashiers living hand-to-mouth. But, GWB is heterosexual. So what? All these Republicans whine about "we don't care about gay or straight" but, when it comes right down to it, that is a hot button issue for them.


Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.


Condescension aside, he did actually tell a woman struggling working three jobs that it was "uniquely American" and fantastic we have that much opportunity in this country. A woman working three jobs just to scrape by. Begging for help so she can spend time with her family. Gotta love the family values crowd, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNj5sireDo

It also amazes me that Republicans get down on and hate Ivy League grads if they had to work their behinds off to get there and celebrate Ivy League grads who use their family name to get there. The difference? The ones who work end up being Democrats.
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seb146
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:34 pm

fr8mech wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
LOL your party wants to draw and quarter Romney right now, and has installed an all gender outhouse on McCain's grave. Your party has literally become the deranged musings of one man.


There you are, dropping me into a cubby hole.

Did I say this problem was confined to one party? No, it tends to be a problem on both sides, especially at the extremes.


Prove it. Republicans keep using "both sides do it" to excuse bad behavior but never put up any actual facts. Oh, I forgot, Lincoln was a Republican so that excuses all the racism and homophobia going on right now. Or something.

Just stop with the fake "both sides do it" outrage. It is desperate. Democrats are not actively repealing equality laws. Democrats are not actively keeping minorities from voting. Democrats are not putting one religion above others. Democrats are not bending the rules for one person.

Both sides do not do it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:01 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.

I know of a certain president who was born into money, has never known hardship, yet the coalminers, farmers, and factory workers say he can relate to them...for some reason or another.

So if a rich person can say they understand the struggles (even though he never had to go through it), why can't a gay person empathize with the struggles of Blacks?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.

I know of a certain president who was born into money, has never known hardship, yet the coalminers, farmers, and factory workers say he can relate to them...for some reason or another.

So if a rich person can say they understand the struggles (even though he never had to go through it), why can't a gay person empathize with the struggles of Blacks?


When did Trump ever say he can relate his struggles with that of coal miners? farmers? link please. BTW, I have said dozens of times, I am no Trump defender, so I have never espoused him to be anything he isn't.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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stl07
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:13 pm

^^we have heard that argument from numerous posters who happen to vanish and then rejoin.


Not accusing you of being related to that person but that sounded very suspicious
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Tugger
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:28 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.

I know of a certain president who was born into money, has never known hardship, yet the coalminers, farmers, and factory workers say he can relate to them...for some reason or another.

It's the savior complex that so many people have. We believe saviors, we are conditioned to believe there can be a singular savior. So when someone stands up and say "I get it, I see your struggles, only I can stop those evil liberals from shutting your mine down!", people who are losing everything will believe and follow that person. Because, why not? what else can they do? He is a savior, He will save us!

Tugg
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stl07
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:44 pm

Tugger wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.

I know of a certain president who was born into money, has never known hardship, yet the coalminers, farmers, and factory workers say he can relate to them...for some reason or another.

It's the savior complex that so many people have. We believe saviors, we are conditioned to believe there can be a singular savior. So when someone stands up and say "I get it, I see your struggles, only I can stop those evil liberals from shutting your mine down!", people who are losing everything will believe and follow that person. Because, why not? what else can they do? He is a savior, He will save us!

Tugg

See but here's what I don't get. Those things aren't even closing due to liberal/conservative policies, they are closing because demand has gone down once the government realized it needed to tax negative externalities of production. Simple high school economics. I just wish people would take the time to learn basic economics before thinking a politician can save them. Of course, we are now seeing plants he promised to save close down, he had no way of stopping it, it is a basic supply and demand curve with the companies following the shut-down rule.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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ER757
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:50 pm

Tugger wrote:
This is a very sad but very real example of why I do not think Buttigieg would be electable as a Presidential candidate. He should be, it is not fair, but it is a reality.

He may be a good guy, have good ideas, and if elected could be a good president, but I think there are too many of her out there ultimately:
"Oh wait, he's gay? He has a husband? They'll sleep together in the White House? They'll attend events as husband and husband representing the USA? I'll have to watch it and read about it and think about what they are doing for the 4-8 years he'll be president?"

It's not right, but it is a problem for him. Sadly.

Tugg

It is sad.....when he first came to public light as a presidential candidate, my beef was his lack of experience. Still is an issue for me, but the longer he hangs around and the more I listen to him in the debates, the more I think he'd be the best person to be the Democratic nominee. Biden's well past his prime, Sanders and Warren are WAY too far left, Klobuchar wouldn't be bad but I don't see her generating the kind of fervor needed to make a successful run. Pete could build a groundswell like Bill Clinton or Obama did. But I think you may be right, that are more backward-thinking hayseeds like this lady out there than many of us here think.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:10 am

seb146 wrote:
Prove it. .


Lieberman
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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Airstud
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:59 am

Tugger wrote:
This is a very sad but very real example of why I do not think Buttigieg would be electable as a Presidential candidate. He should be, it is not fair, but it is a reality.

He may be a good guy, have good ideas, and if elected could be a good president, but I think there are too many of her out there ultimately:
"Oh wait, he's gay? He has a husband? They'll sleep together in the White House? They'll attend events as husband and husband representing the USA? I'll have to watch it and read about it and think about what they are doing for the 4-8 years he'll be president?"

It's not right, but it is a problem for him. Sadly.

Tugg


The reason he's genuinely not electable as President is that he isn't yet 40 years old.

With regard to the gay, I wonder if that's his whole reason for running: To break down barriers. When Jesse Jackson ran for President in the 1980's, I don't think his aim was to actually win the presidency; I think he understood that the real victory was going to be the erosion of institutionalized and even unconscious naysaying. Buttigieg's whole reason for running might be just to start building acceptability for the notion of a gay president.
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jetero
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:31 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Did GWB ever say to the coal miners, I understand your struggles, I have dealt with similar issues? Please read the discussion carefully so you can understand the point. Thanks.

I know of a certain president who was born into money, has never known hardship, yet the coalminers, farmers, and factory workers say he can relate to them...for some reason or another.

So if a rich person can say they understand the struggles (even though he never had to go through it), why can't a gay person empathize with the struggles of Blacks?


When did Trump ever say he can relate his struggles with that of coal miners? farmers? link please. BTW, I have said dozens of times, I am no Trump defender, so I have never espoused him to be anything he isn't.


You are definitely not a Trump defender (you have always come across pretty balanced), you’re definitely more of a moderate.
Last edited by jetero on Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
mdsh00
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:32 am

LMP737 wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again, there's no way a gay man will be elected as President. There are too many people in this country who will not be able to look past that and will vote for Trump just because he's gay.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1420957&p=21303743&hilit=elephant#p21303743


Maybe, but back in 2008 many people thought Obama had no chance because of his skin color.
 
jetero
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:53 am

mdsh00 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again, there's no way a gay man will be elected as President. There are too many people in this country who will not be able to look past that and will vote for Trump just because he's gay.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1420957&p=21303743&hilit=elephant#p21303743


Maybe, but back in 2008 many people thought Obama had no chance because of his skin color.


12 years ago I said the same thing.
 
THS214
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:09 am

As an outsider I looked at this man and except being gay shouldn't he be Republican?
 
jetero
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:16 am

THS214 wrote:
As an outsider I looked at this man and except being gay shouldn't he be Republican?


What does being a Republican mean for you?
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:18 am

THS214 wrote:
As an outsider I looked at this man and except being gay shouldn't he be Republican?


Two things here:

1) No, he is not a Republican. Though, if I had to vote for one of the Democrats, it'd be him...or Gabbard.

2) Why is being gay and being Republican mutually exclusive?

You pretty much made my earlier point with that bit of statement.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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tommy1808
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Re: Buttigieg support asks to withdraw her vote on learning that he's gay

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:21 am

THS214 wrote:
As an outsider I looked at this man and except being gay shouldn't he be Republican?


nah, he seems to be an honest person.

mdsh00 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again, there's no way a gay man will be elected as President. There are too many people in this country who will not be able to look past that and will vote for Trump just because he's gay.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1420957&p=21303743&hilit=elephant#p21303743


Maybe, but back in 2008 many people thought Obama had no chance because of his skin color.


I knew he´d win when a friends mother said she´d vote for him. An NRA member, concealed carrying, Glenn Beck listening, Tea Party, now Trump voting republican........ i still like needeling her with it :D

Airstud wrote:
The reason he's genuinely not electable as President is that he isn't yet 40 years old..


I am not sure about that... there are now plenty heads of state that won despite being very young. And if you consider mental age....

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