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sonicruiser
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Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:29 am

Bashar al-Assad has recaptured a significant town in Syria’s last rebel-held territory, in an offensive that has driven tens of thousands of people towards the border with Turkey.

Government soldiers entered Maarat al-Numan in northwest Idlib province on Tuesday under the cover of heavy airstrikes, a war monitor and government media said.

The town sits on the M5 highway, one of the country’s economic arteries, making it a strategic prize. Maarat al-Numan also has symbolic importance as one of the major centres for protest against Assad’s rule since the Syrian uprising began in 2011.

It has been bombed by Assad and his Russian allies for months, emptying the town of its 110,000 residents. In recent days Assad’s troops have surged forward, capturing more than a dozen villages in the area and encircling the town on three sides.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... n-in-idlib
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:43 am

The main war may be coming to an end.

But the end is still far away.
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tu204
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:35 am

Congrats to Syrian forces and all allies!

Let's hope that all "uninvited" foreign powers (invaders) get the hell out of the country and Syrians end this decade long black streak behind them.

Also hope that Assad learned his lesson to keep this from repeating itself.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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mad99
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:25 pm

Turkey is keeping this war going but providing weapons and back up for the jihadists. Maybe turkey will ship more to Libya, keep spreading the misery
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:51 pm

mad99 wrote:
Turkey is keeping this war going but providing weapons and back up for the jihadists. Maybe turkey will ship more to Libya, keep spreading the misery


Way too late for that mate. Turkey is already in pretty deep in Libya. Especially as of the New Year.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
LMP737
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:17 pm

tu204 wrote:

Way too late for that mate. Turkey is already in pretty deep in Libya. Especially as of the New Year.


Just like Russia is neck deep in Syria. Whether they like it or not, they are.
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SteelChair
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:10 pm

Its tragic to think how many idealistic freedom fighters may have lost their lives.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:23 pm

700.000 new refugees since December. Hundreds of thousands left dead, Millions left the country and millions more displaced within Syria.
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:36 pm

tu204 wrote:
Congrats to Syrian forces and all allies!

Let's hope that all "uninvited" foreign powers (invaders) get the hell out of the country and Syrians end this decade long black streak behind them.

Also hope that Assad learned his lesson to keep this from repeating itself.


Congrats Assad regime and Putin regime and the Iranians. The Assad regime can continue to have their dictatorial fest. The Syrian people continue to suffer under the Assad regime. Now what lesson has Assad learned? He shot at protesters to start this off. They demanded a bit more freedom, not a lot, they met with violence.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:03 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Congrats to Syrian forces and all allies!

Let's hope that all "uninvited" foreign powers (invaders) get the hell out of the country and Syrians end this decade long black streak behind them.

Also hope that Assad learned his lesson to keep this from repeating itself.


Congrats Assad regime and Putin regime and the Iranians. The Assad regime can continue to have their dictatorial fest. The Syrian people continue to suffer under the Assad regime. Now what lesson has Assad learned? He shot at protesters to start this off. They demanded a bit more freedom, not a lot, they met with violence.


First of all Assad, with Russian help in convincing him and organizing such a structure, learned to ally himself with groups that were previously not too friendly with him, albeit against a common enemy. So that is a good start. His Muhabarat were clearly known as a bunch of goons which did fuel the conflict at the start, which although was started from abroad would not have expanded to this clusterfuck had the Muhabarat not been such assholes to start off with and would have acted differently at the start. Good news is that in 10 years of civil war that little agency had a pretty high turnover. So it can go both ways here.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:25 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Congrats to Syrian forces and all allies!

Let's hope that all "uninvited" foreign powers (invaders) get the hell out of the country and Syrians end this decade long black streak behind them.

Also hope that Assad learned his lesson to keep this from repeating itself.


Congrats Assad regime and Putin regime and the Iranians. The Assad regime can continue to have their dictatorial fest. The Syrian people continue to suffer under the Assad regime. Now what lesson has Assad learned? He shot at protesters to start this off. They demanded a bit more freedom, not a lot, they met with violence.


First of all Assad, with Russian help in convincing him and organizing such a structure, learned to ally himself with groups that were previously not too friendly with him, albeit against a common enemy. So that is a good start. His Muhabarat were clearly known as a bunch of goons which did fuel the conflict at the start, which although was started from abroad would not have expanded to this clusterfuck had the Muhabarat not been such assholes to start off with and would have acted differently at the start. Good news is that in 10 years of civil war that little agency had a pretty high turnover. So it can go both ways here.


Yes, the Putin regime has all dictators of the world a lot to learn how to repress its citizens. The genie is back in the bottle but is still there. So we can see another uprise in a few years / decades.
It is beyond me that you are advocating the Assad regime and its Russian helpers, obviously they are very violent against their own people, hence another 700.000. refugees fleeing this alliance of violence. Don't know why you are so proud of the 10 years of the civil war the Assad regime has caused. There is no solution to the root cause: a bit more freedom for its citizens, or are you against a more liberal society?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Congrats Assad regime and Putin regime and the Iranians. The Assad regime can continue to have their dictatorial fest. The Syrian people continue to suffer under the Assad regime. Now what lesson has Assad learned? He shot at protesters to start this off. They demanded a bit more freedom, not a lot, they met with violence.


Yes, congrats to President Assad and Syrians on successes in ending this mess. The only ones who don’t their lessons is EU - they supported those “Freedom protesters” in Syria, Libya, Ukraine and other places, and with help of Russia and Iran only Syria is able to regain stability. Libya is yet to stabilize after a decade of chaos. Ukraine - no hope in sight.

And in general - it’s a new trend in Europe - first create a chaos, and then gather a summit to think what to do with all this.
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:18 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Congrats Assad regime and Putin regime and the Iranians. The Assad regime can continue to have their dictatorial fest. The Syrian people continue to suffer under the Assad regime. Now what lesson has Assad learned? He shot at protesters to start this off. They demanded a bit more freedom, not a lot, they met with violence.


First of all Assad, with Russian help in convincing him and organizing such a structure, learned to ally himself with groups that were previously not too friendly with him, albeit against a common enemy. So that is a good start. His Muhabarat were clearly known as a bunch of goons which did fuel the conflict at the start, which although was started from abroad would not have expanded to this clusterfuck had the Muhabarat not been such assholes to start off with and would have acted differently at the start. Good news is that in 10 years of civil war that little agency had a pretty high turnover. So it can go both ways here.


Yes, the Putin regime has all dictators of the world a lot to learn how to repress its citizens. The genie is back in the bottle but is still there. So we can see another uprise in a few years / decades.
It is beyond me that you are advocating the Assad regime and its Russian helpers, obviously they are very violent against their own people, hence another 700.000. refugees fleeing this alliance of violence. Don't know why you are so proud of the 10 years of the civil war the Assad regime has caused. There is no solution to the root cause: a bit more freedom for its citizens, or are you against a more liberal society?


I am for stability. And against western regimes meddling in the internal affairs of other nations under the guise of "freedom and democracy".

I also have a better understanding of the situation than you through your propaganda that you call a media.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:44 pm

tu204 wrote:
I am for stability. And against western regimes meddling in the internal affairs of other nations under the guise of "freedom and democracy".


Stability meaning re-installing a dictator. Syria was not meddling, it started because Syrian citizens wanted a bit more freedom and were shot at by the Assad regime. Russia meddled in Syria by aiding the Assad regime. But we all know you are biased because you are not against meddling in other nations, you are against meddling if it goes against the Putin regime, nothing more, hence you are on record that you do not mind the meddling in Ukraine or all the other places Putin regime has meddled.

tu204 wrote:
I also have a better understanding of the situation than you through your propaganda that you call a media.


Could you please prove how Dutch media is propaganda? If you can't you are just untrustworthy because you cannot back up any of your claims.

If your understanding comes from Russian media, then no, Reporters without frontiers report Russian media as not independent from the Putin regime, so that is propaganda for you.
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sonicruiser
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:30 am

One thing is pretty clear:

Big winners:
Assad
Iran
Russia

Big losers:
Turkey
US
Kurds
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:05 am

sonicruiser wrote:
One thing is pretty clear:

Big winners:
Assad
Iran
Russia

Big losers:
Turkey
US
Kurds


Don't forget the biggest group: Syrians!
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
One thing is pretty clear:

Big winners:
Assad
Iran
Russia

Big losers:
Turkey
US
Kurds


Don't forget the biggest group: Syrians!


So from your high horse you think it best for Syrians to continue living in a state of civil war? For how long, may I ask? One more year? Maybe 5 or 10?

Reasons like this I am glad that the western regimes are losing influence in the world on a daily basis. You made a conclusion that someone far away, where you haven't been isn't happy and things should change where they live to your liking. Note that you normally don't face reprocussions for your actions, however they sure as hell do while you look on from the sidelines. Well, in this case fortunately you do face reprocussions with all the migrants.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:39 pm

Dutchy wrote:

tu204 wrote:
I also have a better understanding of the situation than you through your propaganda that you call a media.


Could you please prove how Dutch media is propaganda? If you can't you are just untrustworthy because you cannot back up any of your claims.

If your understanding comes from Russian media, then no, Reporters without frontiers report Russian media as not independent from the Putin regime, so that is propaganda for you.


Been twice to Syria in the last 6 months for starters. Know a handfull of Syrians that live in Russia, some from way back, some just recent. Most of the ones here didn't support Assad before, but they sure as hell do now after they witnessed what happens when western regimes export a little democracy to them.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:58 pm

tu204 wrote:
So from your high horse you think it best for Syrians to continue living in a state of civil war? For how long, may I ask? One more year? Maybe 5 or 10?

Reasons like this I am glad that the western regimes are losing influence in the world on a daily basis. You made a conclusion that someone far away, where you haven't been isn't happy and things should change where they live to your liking. Note that you normally don't face reprocussions for your actions, however they sure as hell do while you look on from the sidelines. Well, in this case fortunately you do face reprocussions with all the migrants.


You are the one actually supporting a prolonged war. Before the Russians and Iranians intervened the war was almost over, now it might be almost over, but the outcome is different.

Yes, the migrants, the Putin regime has it all, makes a mess of things and the EU is paying the consequences. Now another 700.000 people adrift, what a brilliant result..............
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:00 pm

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

tu204 wrote:
I also have a better understanding of the situation than you through your propaganda that you call a media.


Could you please prove how Dutch media is propaganda? If you can't you are just untrustworthy because you cannot back up any of your claims.

If your understanding comes from Russian media, then no, Reporters without frontiers report Russian media as not independent from the Putin regime, so that is propaganda for you.


Been twice to Syria in the last 6 months for starters. Know a handfull of Syrians that live in Russia, some from way back, some just recent. Most of the ones here didn't support Assad before, but they sure as hell do now after they witnessed what happens when western regimes export a little democracy to them.


It was a Syrian uprise, asking for a little bit more freedom, not western influence. Being in Syria as a Russian doesn't add to your credibility, now does it. You weren't there for the fine beaches. But heck, your anecdotical evidence is so much better than anything else..........
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sonicruiser
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:17 pm

Dutchy wrote:
You are the one actually supporting a prolonged war. Before the Russians and Iranians intervened the war was almost over, now it might be almost over, but the outcome is different.


It is difficult to say if protests overthrowing the gov't for democracy would actually have improved anything or just made things worse.

Overthrowing Saddam was a dubious move that may or may not have been a good idea depending on who you talk to.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:23 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
You are the one actually supporting a prolonged war. Before the Russians and Iranians intervened the war was almost over, now it might be almost over, but the outcome is different.


It is difficult to say if protests overthrowing the gov't for democracy would actually have improved anything or just made things worse.

Overthrowing Saddam was a dubious move that may or may not have been a good idea depending on who you talk to.


Iraq is a bad example. The 2003 Iraq war, which led to the fall of the Sadam regime, was illegal by any standards. And it was done from the outside in, not the inside out. Syrians rebelled against the Assad-regime, not to over trough but to get a little more liberty. That was met with high spectrum violence from the regime. So it is impossible to say, it is one of those what if questions. But what is clear that Russia and Iran prolonged the war and put the Assad regime back in the saddle for their own little interests that have nothing to do with Syrians, hence they hence caused another 700.000 refugees.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:21 pm

Perhaps we should change the title: Syrian civil war coming to an bloody end peace is not in sight

UN: 300 deaths in air strikes at hospitals and camps in Syria

Hundreds of civilian deaths have occurred during air strikes at hospitals and refugee camps in Northwest Syria, the United Nations reported on Tuesday. Aid organizations can barely cope with the humanitarian crisis.

Since January 1, about 300 people have died in air strikes by the Syrian government in Idlib province, the country's last major rebel stronghold. Since 2011, the country has been torn apart by a bloody civil war.

Currently, troops from Syrian President Bashar Al Assad are making rapid progress in Idlib, where they are fighting against, among others, rebels and jihadist militias supported by Turkey. The Syrian government receives help from the Russian Air Force.

Aid organizations are overwhelmed by the immensity of the humanitarian crisis that has arisen in the area, say UN employees. Around 900,000 civilians fled the violence in Idlib and are now heading for the Turkish border, where they can expect a bitterly cold winter.

Bombing continues
On the Turkish border there is less and less room for refugees, there is a lack of safe havens to hide "and yet they are bombed", says UN human rights chief Michelle Bachelet in a statement on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, Russian and Syrian fighter aircraft are bombing the city of Darat Izza in the province of Aleppo on Tuesday. Two hospitals were seriously damaged one day ago.

UN: Possibly war crimes
When asked whether Russia and Syria intentionally bomb civilians and protected buildings, a spokesperson for the UN human rights organization responds: "The huge amount of attacks on hospitals, medical facilities and schools alone seems to suggest that it does not all happen by accident."

The attacks may be labeled as war crimes, he said at a press conference in Geneva, Switzerland.


So 300 civilians dead, 900.000 Syrians fleeing the violence/terror from the Assad regime with their handlers the Putin regime. Possible war crimes. Not that surprising though, the Assad regime has done this before and with their barrel bombs have bomb cities indiscriminately. The Assad regime will not be held accountable because Russia will block any action against them in the UNSC.
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sonicruiser
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:56 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Iraq is a bad example. The 2003 Iraq war, which led to the fall of the Sadam regime, was illegal by any standards. And it was done from the outside in, not the inside out. Syrians rebelled against the Assad-regime, not to over trough but to get a little more liberty. That was met with high spectrum violence from the regime. So it is impossible to say, it is one of those what if questions. But what is clear that Russia and Iran prolonged the war and put the Assad regime back in the saddle for their own little interests that have nothing to do with Syrians, hence they hence caused another 700.000 refugees.


From a legal perspective, yes internal rebellion is better external intervention, but the goal was still the same thing, overthrowing the government. In Iraq, it was done from the outside, in Syria they wanted to do it from the inside. Legality is irrelevant when the intended outcome is identical.

Is Syria better with Assad or with a power vacuum in his place? This is the million dollar question. In theory, most would say to put in place some kind of framework for parliament or a democracy in Syria like Iraq. However, what the west didn't realize is that they fooled themselves because Iraqis overwhelmingly support Iran over the US and this was reflected when Iraqis voted in a pro-Iran gov't, courtesy of American democracy giving them the ability to do so. The US should have realized that giving democracy to people that hate America will always backfire because it gives people the power to vote anti-US political figures into office, as happened in Iraq.

The result of Iraq democratically voting in a pro-Iran gov't using America's push for democracy in Iraq is the irony of ironies, creating a situation where the US now has to duke it out with Iran militarily using Iraq as a proxy battleground to avoid Iran erasing everything the US tried to build up and completely losing leverage over Iraq.

If you had a choice to support protests in Syria to overthrow Assad back in 2011, the question is not if you can, but if you even should support those protests in the first place. When was the last time protests created more stability in the ME? Even in the best case scenario if we assume that those protests worked and democracy came to Syria and Assad fell, what comes next? What kind of democratic gov't gets voted into Syria? What if a pro-Iran gov't got voted into Syria? These are the kinds of calculations that should have been made before openly calling for the overthrow of Assad.

And on the other side of the spectrum, we briefly got a glimpse of what Syria as a power vacuum would look like after Assad was on the verge of collapse but before Iran and Russia intervened to support him. People think Syria is bad today but the worst period was actually in 2015. In 2015, Assad was about to fall and Syria began to show the first cracks of a lawless power vacuum similar to Iraq in the months immediately after Saddam was overthrown. In late 2015, Assad was very weak and extremist groups had drastically increased territorial control of land in Syria. Once Russia and Iran intervened to support Assad in September 2015, these extremist groups were driven out and that land was recaptured by SAA. Assad is extremely unpopular for many valid reasons, but having a strongman in Syria is vital because no matter how unpopular he is, he has the strength to control the entirety of Syria as one entity. In a sense, the civil war is over because the more land Assad recaptures from the rebels, the closer the war is to conclusion.

Believe it or not, given what has happened in Syria in the past few years, the current situation in 2020 of Assad recapturing all of Syria with the help of Iran and Russia is the best outcome as it will allow the country to reunify and pave the way for a diplomatic solution to negotiate any remaining refugee resettlements back into Syria and begin the rebuilding process. This is great news as it is finally starting to happen.

Now imagine the alternative scenario, the rebels backed by Turkey/US/Kurds had succeeded in overthrowing Assad and protests plunge Syria even deeper into civil war and infighting with no end in sight. With Assad gone, there is no force to reunite Syria and the place becomes a lawless power vacuum and a ripe breeding ground for extremists tearing the country apart with no hope of reunifying under a future gov't. If the rebels had succeeded in overthrowing Assad, all this talk in Europe right now about resettling refugees back into Syria in 2020 would be irrelevant because the war wouldn't have any end in sight.

At least with Assad firmly in power, the war is finally coming to an end. Can't say the same for what would've happened if the rebels continued their push for democracy. For all we know, the war might have escalated even further instead of deescalating towards resolution like it is now.

The intervention of Russia and Iran was necessary to bring peace to Syria because ending the civil war needed a decisive push firmly in support of one direction to end the conflict. Without a decisive force, the civil war and infighting would have gone on forever with no end in sight. Russia and Iran gave that strong decisive push that was needed to wipe out rebel strongholds and restore unity to Syria so the war can end which is now happening.

If I was Syrian refugee and I hated Assad and I had the two following options to be resettled back in Syria:

1. Live in Syria under oppressive gov't of Assad but civil war has ended and relative normal life is restored. (Russia/Iran support this)
2. Live in Syria with Assad overthrown but country is still in never ending civil war, high risk of being killed. (Turkey/US de-facto support this)

I would probably go with Option 1 which is the current situation in 2020 with Assad firmly in power whether I like him or not. At least I could have relative peace in knowing that I wouldn't be randomly killed in an ongoing civil war like in Option 2 which is basically a lawless Iraqi-style (democratic) power vacuum without a strong iron fist like Assad in place to drive out militant separatism and extremism (aka Iraq) and keep normalcy in the country.

At the end of the day, ending war is better than ending a dictatorship. This is what the west doesn't understand. 11/10 people from the ME prefer stability over democracy. Why? Because in the Middle East, there is no concept of peaceful protests; pro-democracy protests are always followed by an armed insurgency from the same protestors. Western countries frequently make the mistake of endorsing protests in the Middle East because they think those protests are peaceful just like in Europe or America, but in reality they are bloody and violent; what Europe and America are actually endorsing are not pro-democracy protests, they are endorsing an armed insurgency. The Middle East is the only part of the world where it is smarter to crush protests than to support them.

There are not many rules in the Middle East except one: Outside powers endorsing and supporting protests and rebellions against state governments in the Middle East for any reason is ALWAYS a bad idea. Don't do it.

So should one have supported the 2011 Pro-democracy protests in Syria?

No.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:28 pm

BEIRUT, Feb 17 (Reuters) - The Syrian army said on Monday it had taken full control of dozens of towns in Aleppo's northwestern countryside and it would press on with its campaign to wipe out militant groups "wherever they are found".

The advances were made after President Bashar al-Assad's forces drove insurgents from the M5 highway linking Aleppo to Damascus, reopening the fastest route between Syria's two biggest cities for the first time in years in a big strategic gain for Assad.

Backed by heavy Russian air strikes, the government forces have been fighting since the start of the year to recapture the Aleppo countryside and parts of neighbouring Idlib province where anti-Assad insurgents hold their last strongholds.

The advances have sent hundreds of thousands of Syrian civilians fleeing towards the border with Turkey in the biggest single displacement of the nine-year-old war.

It has also upset the fragile cooperation between Ankara and Moscow, which back opposing factions in the conflict.

Turkey and Russia are set to hold a new round of talks in Moscow on Monday after several demands by Ankara that Assad's forces should back down and a ceasefire be put in place.

However, the Syrian armed forces said in a statement they would push on with what they called their "sacred and noble task to rid what remains of terrorist organisations wherever on Syria's geography they are found".

They had taken full control of dozens of towns in Aleppo's northwestern countryside, they said.

Pro-Damascus Al-Watan newspaper said the M5 highway, a vital artery in northern Syria, would be ready for civilian use by the end of the week. Aleppo city, once Syria's economic hub, was the scene of some of the most viscious fighting of the war between 2012 and 2016.

The Syrian army had also opened the international roadway from northern Aleppo to the towns of Zahraa and Nubl towards the Turkish border, a military news service run by Lebanon's Assad-allied pro-Damascus Hezbollah group said.

The insurgent forces arrayed against Assad include Western-backed rebels and jihadist militants.

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan has said his military will drive back Syrian forces if they do not withdraw from Idlib by the end of the month. On Saturday, he appeared to move that date forward, saying Turkey would "handle it" before the end of the month if there was no pull-back.

Alarmed by the new refugee crisis on its border, Turkey has sent thousands of troops and hundreds of convoys of military equipment to reinforce its observation posts in Idlib, established under a 2018 de-escalation agreement with Russia.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
tu204
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:06 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
So from your high horse you think it best for Syrians to continue living in a state of civil war? For how long, may I ask? One more year? Maybe 5 or 10?

Reasons like this I am glad that the western regimes are losing influence in the world on a daily basis. You made a conclusion that someone far away, where you haven't been isn't happy and things should change where they live to your liking. Note that you normally don't face reprocussions for your actions, however they sure as hell do while you look on from the sidelines. Well, in this case fortunately you do face reprocussions with all the migrants.


You are the one actually supporting a prolonged war. Before the Russians and Iranians intervened the war was almost over, now it might be almost over, but the outcome is different.


Yeah, why not support a prolonged war if it meant winning it in the end. Had Russia not interfered, migrants that maybe like to do a little droping and petty theft over at your place would be the least of your problems. You'd probably be a little scared to leave your house out of fear of getting knifed/shot/run over/blown up by those nice guys in love with democracy that you were so fond of. Of course this was done not to protect your asses from the guys you supported, but because Russia isn't all that far from Syria either and we didn't need a terrorist training megacenter so close from our borders. But still you guys are welcome.

Your western regimes just don't get it, do they? Supporting and arming bearded guys with a radical ideology just because today they claim to share your (short term) goals and views is a bad idea. It will, and in practice does come back to bite you guys in the ass along with a lot of collateral damage for anyone standing nearby.

When will your thick headed populistic policymakers learn to think at least one step ahead when taking stupid actions?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11456
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:44 am

tu204 wrote:
Yeah, why not support a prolonged war if it meant winning it in the end. Had Russia not interfered, migrants that maybe like to do a little droping and petty theft over at your place would be the least of your problems. You'd probably be a little scared to leave your house out of fear of getting knifed/shot/run over/blown up by those nice guys in love with democracy that you were so fond of. Of course this was done not to protect your asses from the guys you supported, but because Russia isn't all that far from Syria either and we didn't need a terrorist training megacenter so close from our borders. But still you guys are welcome.

Your western regimes just don't get it, do they? Supporting and arming bearded guys with a radical ideology just because today they claim to share your (short term) goals and views is a bad idea. It will, and in practice does come back to bite you guys in the ass along with a lot of collateral damage for anyone standing nearby.

When will your thick headed populistic policymakers learn to think at least one step ahead when taking stupid actions?


Wow, a lot of "what if's" and did your Russian propaganda really took by hard in order for you to believe that the Putin regime acted out of some noble cause to combat terrorism? Given prior conduct of the Putin regime, remember the FSB bombings in Moscow and the Yeltsin government blamed Tjetjenians in order to have Putin elected, Putin gives a rats ass about that. And given the Assad regime with their Putin regime friend, ignored IS to combat everyone except IS, leaving IS to the international coalition.

You know, repression people create terrorism, so the actions of your Putin regime creates a world that is less safe, as usual, not more safe as you falsely claim. The Putin regime acts of self-interest only, nothing like higher goals of anything.

Our western democratic governments understand perfectly, nothing populistic about that, but deeper moral and value's.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11456
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:56 am

sonicruiser wrote:
From a legal perspective, yes internal rebellion is better external intervention, but the goal was still the same thing, overthrowing the government. In Iraq, it was done from the outside, in Syria they wanted to do it from the inside. Legality is irrelevant when the intended outcome is identical.


I am not talking about a legal perspective, I speak from a moral one. Given that any government should rule at the pleasure of its citizens and not the other way around. Internal uprise is always better than one from the outside.

sonicruiser wrote:
Is Syria better with Assad or with a power vacuum in his place?


That is a false dilemma, there are lots more options than those two.

sonicruiser wrote:
So should one have supported the 2011 Pro-democracy protests in Syria?


In the end, nobody really supported them.

But the real question is, if we actually want to bring real democracy, how should we do it? We shouldn't just held elections and call it democracy. Democracy isn't the dictatorship of the majority you know. Democracy is like a delicate flower. Democratic value's needs to be institutionalized: freedom of speech, freedom of gathering, freedom of the press, freedom to express yourself. Education in all those rights for all. Elections are the end result of such a process, not the beginning. I find it a bit disturbing that you seem to talk about Syrian citizens and the rest of the ME, as small children who need a strong man as a leader, otherwise they. return to chaos. I just don't subscribe to that point of view.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:03 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Yeah, why not support a prolonged war if it meant winning it in the end. Had Russia not interfered, migrants that maybe like to do a little droping and petty theft over at your place would be the least of your problems. You'd probably be a little scared to leave your house out of fear of getting knifed/shot/run over/blown up by those nice guys in love with democracy that you were so fond of. Of course this was done not to protect your asses from the guys you supported, but because Russia isn't all that far from Syria either and we didn't need a terrorist training megacenter so close from our borders. But still you guys are welcome.

Your western regimes just don't get it, do they? Supporting and arming bearded guys with a radical ideology just because today they claim to share your (short term) goals and views is a bad idea. It will, and in practice does come back to bite you guys in the ass along with a lot of collateral damage for anyone standing nearby.

When will your thick headed populistic policymakers learn to think at least one step ahead when taking stupid actions?


Wow, a lot of "what if's" and did your Russian propaganda really took by hard in order for you to believe that the Putin regime acted out of some noble cause to combat terrorism? Given prior conduct of the Putin regime, remember the FSB bombings in Moscow and the Yeltsin government blamed Tjetjenians in order to have Putin elected, Putin gives a rats ass about that. And given the Assad regime with their Putin regime friend, ignored IS to combat everyone except IS, leaving IS to the international coalition.

You know, repression people create terrorism, so the actions of your Putin regime creates a world that is less safe, as usual, not more safe as you falsely claim. The Putin regime acts of self-interest only, nothing like higher goals of anything.

Our western democratic governments understand perfectly, nothing populistic about that, but deeper moral and value's.


Maybe no noble cause to combat terrorism from Putin, but what good will it do to Putin/Russia to have a jihadi breeding ground nearby to recruit weak minded individuals from Russia or Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrghystan and a bit of Azeris to throw in) through Syria and have them come back for some fun?
Where was Syria when Russia stepped in? 90-something percent controlled by ISIS or their allies. Their allies that your idiot regimes supported and armed.
Maybe you've noticed, but 10 years back you guys had way fewer terrorist acts, and what you have now is just a fraction of what you would have today if you guys had your way and Syria would have turned in to an Afghanistan 90's style. Hell, you guys would probably be praying for a Taliban to come in and at least somewhat control the situation after you walked in to the mess you created.

So yeah, your western regimes have proved that they miserably fail at glancing, not even looking one step ahead.

You are talking to me about "what ifs"? Look at your own! You are referring to a situation where you supported a radical, violent and destructive power almost to gain control of a territory on your doorstep who's leftovers are now running/knifing/shooting you down in your country and are basically saying "what if they really aren't that bad and wouldn't hurt us?" Seriously? I guess I could also say "What if I shot myself/burned myself/jumped under a bus/off a bridge?, I may not get hurt, right?" I mean, there is a chance that I/you won't. Not a big one, but it's there...wow...it's called logic. You actually have the advantage of hindsight right now and you are still making the wrong conclusion based not only on the facts at hand, but on events that have happened.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11456
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Syrian civil war coming to an end as Assad forces surround town in Syria's last opposition holdout

Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:02 pm

tu204 wrote:
Maybe no noble cause to combat terrorism from Putin, but what good will it do to Putin/Russia to have a jihadi breeding ground nearby to recruit weak minded individuals from Russia or Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrghystan and a bit of Azeris to throw in) through Syria and have them come back for some fun?


Putin did it for geopolitical reasons, nothing to do with terrorism.

tu204 wrote:
Where was Syria when Russia stepped in? 90-something percent controlled by ISIS or their allies.


It wasn't IS allies, it was IS and other groups fighting the Assad regime. So here you re-write history or framing something which isn't true. When Russia stepped in, they explicitly left IS alone for the western allies. So again, it had nothing to do with terrorism.

tu204 wrote:
Their allies that your idiot regimes supported and armed.

Deliberate insulting my democratic government with non-arguments.

tu204 wrote:
Maybe you've noticed, but 10 years back you guys had way fewer terrorist acts, and what you have now is just a fraction of what you would have today if you guys had your way and Syria would have turned in to an Afghanistan 90's style.

That is not true. Again a lie and just shows your ignorance at best.

tu204 wrote:
Hell, you guys would probably be praying for a Taliban to come in and at least somewhat control the situation after you walked in to the mess you created.
"What-if" and it is all complete bull.

tu204 wrote:
So yeah, your western regimes have proved that they miserably fail at glancing, not even looking one step ahead.

I guess you only think that a single objective: geopolitics, like your Putin regime has, is the only way to go. We will see what Putin will do to help the Assad regime to rebuild Syria. Hopefully, he will not be looking to the EU for that.

tu204 wrote:
You are talking to me about "what ifs"? Look at your own! You are referring to a situation where you supported a radical, violent and destructive power almost to gain control of a territory on your doorstep who's leftovers are now running/knifing/shooting you down in your country and are basically saying "what if they really aren't that bad and wouldn't hurt us?" Seriously? I guess I could also say "What if I shot myself/burned myself/jumped under a bus/off a bridge?, I may not get hurt, right?" I mean, there is a chance that I/you won't. Not a big one, but it's there...wow...it's called logic. You actually have the advantage of hindsight right now and you are still making the wrong conclusion based not only on the facts at hand, but on events that have happened.

I will leave this rent with you, no need to something like this.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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