Scotron12
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HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:06 pm

The high speed rail link from London to Birmingham has been approved. Work is set to begin next month to completed by 2036. Extensions to Manchester and Leeds to be competed by 2040.

The cost when first proposed in 2010 was £20Billion. By 2015 it had risen to £46Billion...today estimated at £107Billion :duck:

https://news.sky.com/story/hs2-set-to-g ... n-11931176
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:04 pm

And they laughed at Cali’s cost overruns and delays. 2036? Really?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:14 pm

So many other more important things to spend that obscene amount of money on. :shakehead:
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jetwet1
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:17 pm

26 years to run 120 miles of track...Why so long ?
 
seat64k
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:37 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
26 years to run 120 miles of track...Why so long ?


Maybe it's underground and they have to tunnel? :confused:
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:13 pm

Unlike our Victorian counterparts we are bloodly useless at planning and engineering, we need another Brunel.
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art
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:57 pm

Cost seems ridiculous to me at around £1 billion per mile (around £15,000 per inch).
 
petertenthije
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:20 pm

Is this a new line, or an upgrade of existing lines?
Considering the price, is it safe to assume that large parts of the line will be underground? At least in London and other urban areas?
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petertenthije
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:21 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Unlike our Victorian counterparts we are bloodly useless at planning and engineering, we need another Brunel.

There are plenty of excellent engineers. What’s needed are politicians that are willing to make tough decisions.
Attamottamotta!
 
Scotron12
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:37 pm

art wrote:
Cost seems ridiculous to me at around £1 billion per mile (around £15,000 per inch).


Oh..Im sure the grand total will be anything but £107Bn...add on at least £20-30Bn, if not more!

Going by the history of the project, it wouldn't surprise me if the grand total was closer to £150Bn!
 
anshabhi
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:10 pm

Weird costs lol. Just build dedicated roads, drive automated electric buses. Will cost a fraction of amount
 
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scbriml
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:31 pm

Absolute folly and a total waste of money.
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wingman
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:59 pm

scbriml wrote:
Absolute folly and a total waste of money.


I don't know man, BoJo may want to someday Brexit from Brexit and that bridge could come in handy. Where else would he lead his people except even further away from the EU? N.I. is the closest landmass.
 
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zkojq
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:08 am

Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.
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Scotron12
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:43 am

zkojq wrote:
Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.


You are 100% correct! I travelled on the "Bullet Train" in Japan in 1979...40 years ago! The fastest the UK trains travel is only 125MPH..and that wasn't reached until the 1980's...and has not changed since.
 
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Number6
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:02 am

Damn, that’s a ridiculous cost level. Here in Austria we’re currently building a new tunnel section from Semmering to Mürzzuschlag through the alps. The 56km run of tunnels will shorten travel times from Vienna to Graz to just 2 hours. (The current route runs over the Semmering pass and sees the 220km/h railjet trains stuck at around 50 to 70km/h. Total cost of the project that includes twin tunnels and several access tunnels will be around d the €3.3 billion. Work began in 2016 and the tunnel is expected to open in 2027.

Ok it’s not the length of the London Birmingham link, but surely the lack of alpine mountains is a bonus. The cost of HS2 seems incredibly high compared to here.
 
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zkojq
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:06 am

Number6 wrote:
Damn, that’s a ridiculous cost level. Here in Austria we’re currently building a new tunnel section from Semmering to Mürzzuschlag through the alps. The 56km run of tunnels will shorten travel times from Vienna to Graz to just 2 hours. (The current route runs over the Semmering pass and sees the 220km/h railjet trains stuck at around 50 to 70km/h. Total cost of the project that includes twin tunnels and several access tunnels will be around d the €3.3 billion. Work began in 2016 and the tunnel is expected to open in 2027.

Ok it’s not the length of the London Birmingham link, but surely the lack of alpine mountains is a bonus. The cost of HS2 seems incredibly high compared to here.


Yeah ridiculous costs. Considering that Gotthard Base cost ~7.5 billion GBP for ~60km of tunnel, you have to wonder why they don't dig HS2 deep underground, rather than having to buy thousands of different parcels of land for a surface railway. And I'm sure that the people building HS2 will get paid much less than those who built Gotthard Base...

I love your railjets btw, they're fantastic.
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Scotron12
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:02 am

Number6 wrote:
Damn, that’s a ridiculous cost level. Here in Austria we’re currently building a new tunnel section from Semmering to Mürzzuschlag through the alps. The 56km run of tunnels will shorten travel times from Vienna to Graz to just 2 hours. (The current route runs over the Semmering pass and sees the 220km/h railjet trains stuck at around 50 to 70km/h. Total cost of the project that includes twin tunnels and several access tunnels will be around d the €3.3 billion. Work began in 2016 and the tunnel is expected to open in 2027.

Ok it’s not the length of the London Birmingham link, but surely the lack of alpine mountains is a bonus. The cost of HS2 seems incredibly high compared to here.


It is a rediculous cost. This original propisal was created by the Labor party, then in power, in 2009. Since gone thru the Tory/Lib Dem, Tory/DUP and finally Tories on their own adminustration.

Already £7.5Billion has been spent since 2015 on preparation in London and Birmingham, also on purchasing properties on the route.

As in all public works projects here in UK, no doubt the final cost will be £Billions more!
 
Olddog
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:59 am

And as a side effect I bet LHR third runway will be scrapped.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
olle
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:16 pm

art wrote:
Cost seems ridiculous to me at around £1 billion per mile (around £15,000 per inch).



In sweden we are currently upgrading thevrail network.

Start of this is ostlänken suburb stockholm järna to linköping 150 km that will cost less then 3 billion euros. This includes tunnels, bridges and will be able to carry heavy cargo train by night.

The cost therefore is around 20 million euros per kilometer.
 
blockski
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:51 pm

This is great news; they have their work cut out for them to contain costs, but the project is tremendously valuable.
 
Scotron12
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:41 pm

Olddog wrote:
And as a side effect I bet LHR third runway will be scrapped.


It's already delayed and Boris did not directly answer if LHR 3rd runway will go ahead.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... built-soon
 
Redd
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:19 pm

China has built 15,500 miles of high speed rail since 2008. Maybe they should hire some Chinese companies to do the work? :stirthepot:
 
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scbriml
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:33 pm

blockski wrote:
This is great news; they have their work cut out for them to contain costs, but the project is tremendously valuable.


Tremendously valuable to whom? Why do we need to spend ludicrous amounts of money to save 20 minutes getting between Birmingham and London?

As for containing costs, when has that ever happened on any government project? :rotfl:
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Francoflier
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:56 pm

The value of the project is more than just reducing travel times. The problem is that the current lines are so congested and choked with slower trains that frequencies are limited and prices have become ridiculously high as a consequence. HS2 is mostly meant to eliminate that bottleneck.

There is no doubt that long term benefits, not only from direct revenue of the line, but from the economic development that the line can bring to the areas it serves, is vast. Only time will tell if it's as vast as the bill the taxpayer will have to foot, of course.

It is designed to be a 360-400 kph (223-248 mph) line. Some are suggesting that reducing the speed to a more conventional 300 kph (186 mph) would save over 10 billion quids while only costing around 12 minutes of travelling time.
Another option is to avoid all the tunneling to make the line reach Euston station and make it terminate further from downtown. I think that would be a mistake as the main benefit of high speed trains is that, unlike flying, it allows you to avoid having to travel all the way to an airport.
Personally, I think it's a waste to have two separate branches from Birmingham. They should instead just extend the Manchester branch to Leeds instead... but that's just me.

In the end, while those massive and expensive infrastructure projects are usually universally panned for their cost before and during construction, people tend be much happier with them once they are up and running.
It's a big pill to swallow, but one that could benefit the UK in the long term. It might have been smarter to wait until Brexit was sorted out before committing to it though...
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Kiwirob
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:42 pm

zkojq wrote:
Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.


We quit rail quite early, road and air took over and rail never got a look in again. They can’t even get Auckland Hamilton commuter services to work efficiently, so how could we expect to run a national passenger network!! Although the idiots running the Greater Auckland blog think it would be pretty cheap to get 160kph rapid rail up and running, somehow I doubt it.
 
blockski
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:15 pm

scbriml wrote:
blockski wrote:
This is great news; they have their work cut out for them to contain costs, but the project is tremendously valuable.


Tremendously valuable to whom? Why do we need to spend ludicrous amounts of money to save 20 minutes getting between Birmingham and London?

As for containing costs, when has that ever happened on any government project? :rotfl:


Tremendously valuable to the UK. It's not just about saving time, but also dramatically increasing rail capacity and providing a far more energy-efficient way to move people.

HS2 is not just a faster service, it also adds capacity both via the new line itself, but also by simplifying the service patterns on the existing lines.

There's a good summary of that argument here: https://medium.com/@garethdennis/high-s ... d8c68c5d80
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:19 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.


We quit rail quite early, road and air took over and rail never got a look in again. They can’t even get Auckland Hamilton commuter services to work efficiently, so how could we expect to run a national passenger network!! Although the idiots running the Greater Auckland blog think it would be pretty cheap to get 160kph rapid rail up and running, somehow I doubt it.

They do a lot of idiotic posts and are very “woke”, but their RRR proposal is actually quite a good one. 160km/h is doable using existing track (with minor improvements of course and adding a few more sections where double track is missing) and tilt trains - they do this in Queensland using the same rail gauge etc. Doesn’t need OLE either like HSR does (although it would be preferable to have it).
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:53 pm

£107 billion pounds equals about £10,700 per human residing in each city. That’s folly.
 
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Aesma
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:34 am

anshabhi wrote:
Weird costs lol. Just build dedicated roads, drive automated electric buses. Will cost a fraction of amount


Buses are slower than current trains.
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Aesma
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 am

The only way I can explain the price tag is that hundreds of Tory donors are going to pocket 3 quarters of it.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:27 am

What other countries in Europe besides Britain don't have a national high speed rail network.
 
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zkojq
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:14 am

What do out British members think about crossrail's success to date? I know it's not open yet but it seems to be a no-brainer despite being controversial at its inception.


Zkpilot wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.


We quit rail quite early, road and air took over and rail never got a look in again. They can’t even get Auckland Hamilton commuter services to work efficiently, so how could we expect to run a national passenger network!! Although the idiots running the Greater Auckland blog think it would be pretty cheap to get 160kph rapid rail up and running, somehow I doubt it.

They do a lot of idiotic posts and are very “woke”, but their RRR proposal is actually quite a good one. 160km/h is doable using existing track (with minor improvements of course and adding a few more sections where double track is missing) and tilt trains - they do this in Queensland using the same rail gauge etc. Doesn’t need OLE either like HSR does (although it would be preferable to have it).

:checkmark:

In fairness though, proper high speed rail in New Zealand was probably always going to be a non starter thanks to how hilly the place is and thanks to regional centres being sparsely populated, but the lack of regional rail is a complete joke. It's refreshing to see the government investing in rail going up North and reopening lines on the East Cape, but much more needs to be done. The fact that a small fire at Newmarket has caused a complete rail meltdown in Auckland for all of this week shows how fragile the whole system is.

Such a situation would never happen in France...
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olle
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:00 am

As mentioned before what is driving the expansion in most countries including sweden is the load on existing infrastructure both highways and current tracks. There is simple not space for more and alternative is more highways.

In nothern Europe there is heavy investments also over denmark so in a few years I see more and more business trips scandinavia germany done by train. Bridges over femarn will create a new situation for scandinavians connecting to hamburg, berlin and amsterdam.

This is extremly importand special while swedish an danish business getting closer ties with germany for each day. Until the 90s the connection with UK was more dominating but that is changing fast. After a generation when german was not very common in school it has come back again.
 
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Number6
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:02 am

zkojq wrote:

Yeah ridiculous costs. Considering that Gotthard Base cost ~7.5 billion GBP for ~60km of tunnel, you have to wonder why they don't dig HS2 deep underground, rather than having to buy thousands of different parcels of land for a surface railway. And I'm sure that the people building HS2 will get paid much less than those who built Gotthard Base...

I love your railjets btw, they're fantastic.


The Railjets are fantastic. I use them regularly. We’re actually seeing an increase in rail usage in Austria and subsequent improvements along several lines. The Semmering Tunnel project is just one that joins the southern route from Vienna to Villach via Graz. Currently the full journey time is around 4 hours. This will be cut to just 2 hours 40 in 2027. The main commuter line between Vienna and Bratislava is being upgraded and will be ready in 2023.
We’ve also seen the re-emergence of the night train or Nightjets here as well. Deutsche Bahn sold it’s night Train business years ago because they couldn’t make it work. ÖBB bought the rolling stock, refurbed them and began operating services to Düsseldorf and Zürich for example. The NJ have proved so popular that it’s been expanded several times, with the latest route being to Brussels. It’s planned by the end of the year to have service to Amsterdam as well. And all of this has been achieved at a lower cost than a single HS line in the UK. Wow.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:08 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.


We quit rail quite early, road and air took over and rail never got a look in again. They can’t even get Auckland Hamilton commuter services to work efficiently, so how could we expect to run a national passenger network!! Although the idiots running the Greater Auckland blog think it would be pretty cheap to get 160kph rapid rail up and running, somehow I doubt it.

They do a lot of idiotic posts and are very “woke”, but their RRR proposal is actually quite a good one. 160km/h is doable using existing track (with minor improvements of course and adding a few more sections where double track is missing) and tilt trains - they do this in Queensland using the same rail gauge etc. Doesn’t need OLE either like HSR does (although it would be preferable to have it).


There's a project in Sweden and Norway to improve the track between Oslo and Stockholm to allow faster trains up to i think 180km/h, this will cost €5.2 billion for around 520km of track. To build a new line to higher speeds the same distance was €17 billion. It's pretty much flat terrain the entire length.

I believe any upgrading of our existing railways to allow safe running of trains up to 160/180 km/h will run into many many billions, you have to remember our railways today are basically freight only and are maintained for slow speeds. Logs and containers aren't bothered by a bumpy ride, people are.
 
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Aesma
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:30 am

From what I can find the total Spanish AVE network, that is the second largest HSR network in the world after the Chinese one, cost less than this single line.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Scotron12
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:36 am

Reasons given for the high cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51415590
 
Bostrom
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:35 am

Kiwirob wrote:
There's a project in Sweden and Norway to improve the track between Oslo and Stockholm to allow faster trains up to i think 180km/h, this will cost €5.2 billion for around 520km of track. To build a new line to higher speeds the same distance was €17 billion. It's pretty much flat terrain the entire length.

I believe any upgrading of our existing railways to allow safe running of trains up to 160/180 km/h will run into many many billions, you have to remember our railways today are basically freight only and are maintained for slow speeds. Logs and containers aren't bothered by a bumpy ride, people are.


The rail line between Stockholm and Oslo is in really bad shape for being a link between two capitals pretty close to each other. But there is a lobby group trying to get the governments to decrease the traveltime to less than 3 hours. In Sweden though, the trains travel up to 200 km/h at the moment. The big bottleneck is on the Norwegian side where the rail line mostly allow only 110-120 km/h.
 
olle
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:39 pm

It is the same story oslo guthenburg malmö copenhagen. Oslo to swedish borderline is so slow and most areas on the sweden has been or being updated to 200 kmh.

But still there is areas where the capacity is too low and new lines are being built.

It has never in the history of rail in sweden been going so many trains on the tracks and this require expensive investments that is of course a direct consequence. When building these new track it is a choice to invest in higher speeds.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:04 pm

All that money to shave a few minutes off a journey.

What a waste.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:01 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

We quit rail quite early, road and air took over and rail never got a look in again. They can’t even get Auckland Hamilton commuter services to work efficiently, so how could we expect to run a national passenger network!! Although the idiots running the Greater Auckland blog think it would be pretty cheap to get 160kph rapid rail up and running, somehow I doubt it.

They do a lot of idiotic posts and are very “woke”, but their RRR proposal is actually quite a good one. 160km/h is doable using existing track (with minor improvements of course and adding a few more sections where double track is missing) and tilt trains - they do this in Queensland using the same rail gauge etc. Doesn’t need OLE either like HSR does (although it would be preferable to have it).


There's a project in Sweden and Norway to improve the track between Oslo and Stockholm to allow faster trains up to i think 180km/h, this will cost €5.2 billion for around 520km of track. To build a new line to higher speeds the same distance was €17 billion. It's pretty much flat terrain the entire length.

I believe any upgrading of our existing railways to allow safe running of trains up to 160/180 km/h will run into many many billions, you have to remember our railways today are basically freight only and are maintained for slow speeds. Logs and containers aren't bothered by a bumpy ride, people are.

180km/h doesn’t sound like much more than 160 but it most definitely is when it comes to trains! Tolerances are much tighter, corners need to be expanded, signalling needs to be improved/full computerised in cabin signalling etc. What NZ would be doing would mostly just be replacing track as part of the usual replacement program (just sped up somewhat).
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Kiwirob
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:26 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
They do a lot of idiotic posts and are very “woke”, but their RRR proposal is actually quite a good one. 160km/h is doable using existing track (with minor improvements of course and adding a few more sections where double track is missing) and tilt trains - they do this in Queensland using the same rail gauge etc. Doesn’t need OLE either like HSR does (although it would be preferable to have it).


There's a project in Sweden and Norway to improve the track between Oslo and Stockholm to allow faster trains up to i think 180km/h, this will cost €5.2 billion for around 520km of track. To build a new line to higher speeds the same distance was €17 billion. It's pretty much flat terrain the entire length.

I believe any upgrading of our existing railways to allow safe running of trains up to 160/180 km/h will run into many many billions, you have to remember our railways today are basically freight only and are maintained for slow speeds. Logs and containers aren't bothered by a bumpy ride, people are.

180km/h doesn’t sound like much more than 160 but it most definitely is when it comes to trains! Tolerances are much tighter, corners need to be expanded, signalling needs to be improved/full computerised in cabin signalling etc. What NZ would be doing would mostly just be replacing track as part of the usual replacement program (just sped up somewhat).


The issue IMO is if the govt don't decide to spend the billions they would need to spend to upgrade our lines rail will forever come second fiddle to air and car. The problem is the rail fanboys over at Greater Auckland and other blogs don't understand they, the have incredibly blinkered vision.
 
olle
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:20 am

Stockholm oslo is around 600 km. If the speed is 200 kmh it can be done in around 4 hours with a few stops using train. Today it is 6 hours with train with a quit small investment. 4 hours means that for most it will be equal time door to door or less compared using air.

Same stockholm copenhagen, stockholm guthenburg and oslo copenhagen. That will change usage patterns dramatically.
 
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scbriml
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Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:25 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
All that money to shave a few minutes off a journey.

What a waste.


This is the government you voted for, no? Better get used to it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
noviorbis77
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:32 pm

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
All that money to shave a few minutes off a journey.

What a waste.


This is the government you voted for, no? Better get used to it.


Well unfortunately there were other, more important issues.

wasting more on HS2 is still preferable to Corbyn as PM.
 
olle
Posts: 1506
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:46 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
All that money to shave a few minutes off a journey.

What a waste.


This is the government you voted for, no? Better get used to it.


Well unfortunately there were other, more important issues.

wasting more on HS2 is still preferable to Corbyn as PM.


With mr cummings running the show...
 
anrec80
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:21 am

zkojq wrote:
Why is it that Anglo Saxon countries are universally hopeless when it comes to high speed rail? UK hopeless, USA hopeless, Australia complete joke, New Zealand completely non existent.

High speed rail isn't rocket science and it brings plenty of benifits to the country. France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Austria all have decent high speed systems.


What are the latest news of corruption fight?
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 960
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:30 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
All that money to shave a few minutes off a journey.

What a waste.


First of all, it is not much about travel time, but sheer capacity.

Even more important: whatever the final amount will be, by far the greatest percentage of spent money will be a direct fusion for the British economy. It is not as if the money will be dug under the tracks. It will be spent on British employees, British companies, British landowners. And those in turn will pay good tax money.
Exactly what the UK needs with GDP growth having slowed to around 1% due to lack of sufficient investment, as The Economist states in their 13th Feb issue.
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
Deception justified for your holy design
High on our platform spewing out your crimes
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noviorbis77
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: HS2 Gets Approved

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:04 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
All that money to shave a few minutes off a journey.

What a waste.


First of all, it is not much about travel time, but sheer capacity.

Even more important: whatever the final amount will be, by far the greatest percentage of spent money will be a direct fusion for the British economy. It is not as if the money will be dug under the tracks. It will be spent on British employees, British companies, British landowners. And those in turn will pay good tax money.
Exactly what the UK needs with GDP growth having slowed to around 1% due to lack of sufficient investment, as The Economist states in their 13th Feb issue.


The Chiltern line could have been expanded and electrified for a fraction of the cost instead of HS2.

The Midland Mainline could also have been electrified in its entirety to allow longer trains

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