bmartino99
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Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:38 am

Brutal crash tonight on the final lap of the Daytona 500 with Ryan Newman flipping over and taking a direct hit on the driver's side A-Pillar area. Statement from NASCAR is that he is in serious condition, with non-life threatening injuries.

Pretty amazing just how far the safety of these cars has come since 2001.

Here's wishing a full recovery to Ryan.
 
blueflyer
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:57 am

Impressive crash to be sure. A small miracle Newman only has "serious" injuries and is awake considering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ-qSapIczk

Glad there hasn't been anything stock about stock car racing in years, because no stock car would save its occupants in that crash.
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Aesma
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:39 am

Can you win like that, just pushing the front runner in the wall ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:12 am

Also is it normal for the winner to be gloating like that before they know the actual status of the guy in the mangled car?
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FatCat
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:25 am

One post, three replies, and still no one already saying it was Trump's fault. Amazing! :-D
Wishing all the best to the driver.
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ltbewr
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:49 am

I only saw a few laps Monday at the end when a previous crash prevented the finish of the race, leading to the restart that injured Newman. Ironically, it was 19 years ago today (Tuesday, 2/18) of the death of Dale Earhnardt in the final lap of the Daytona 500. Since than there have been huge advances in the safety of the cars and drivers that means Newman will survive.
I am concerned with the far too frequent 'big one' crashes, sometimes several occurring in last laps or 'overtime'/extra laps of racing on the bigger tracks like Daytona, that are putting too many drivers at risk as well as causing way too much damage to too many cars that can mean large financial losses to teams as well as losing their drivers by injury or possible death. While multiple restarts may be exciting, the carnage is getting to be too much. NASCAR must find ways to slow down the cars on the big tracks and end races at their originally intended number of laps, no more 'overtime' to prevent another deadly crash.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:24 pm

The solution involves turns...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
LabQuest
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:49 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I only saw a few laps Monday at the end when a previous crash prevented the finish of the race, leading to the restart that injured Newman. Ironically, it was 19 years ago today (Tuesday, 2/18) of the death of Dale Earhnardt in the final lap of the Daytona 500. Since than there have been huge advances in the safety of the cars and drivers that means Newman will survive.
I am concerned with the far too frequent 'big one' crashes, sometimes several occurring in last laps or 'overtime'/extra laps of racing on the bigger tracks like Daytona, that are putting too many drivers at risk as well as causing way too much damage to too many cars that can mean large financial losses to teams as well as losing their drivers by injury or possible death. While multiple restarts may be exciting, the carnage is getting to be too much. NASCAR must find ways to slow down the cars on the big tracks and end races at their originally intended number of laps, no more 'overtime' to prevent another deadly crash.


One of the reasons NASCAR is dying is because of this opinion. Its too safe and too slow and too boring.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:17 pm

FatCat wrote:
One post, three replies, and still no one already saying it was Trump's fault. Amazing! :-D
Wishing all the best to the driver.

But four posts in and already a troll shows up.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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N776AU
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:51 pm

Aesma wrote:
Can you win like that, just pushing the front runner in the wall ?

All the guys who drive for Roger Penske are very good at that.
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bmartino99
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:40 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I only saw a few laps Monday at the end when a previous crash prevented the finish of the race, leading to the restart that injured Newman. Ironically, it was 19 years ago today (Tuesday, 2/18) of the death of Dale Earhnardt in the final lap of the Daytona 500. Since than there have been huge advances in the safety of the cars and drivers that means Newman will survive.
I am concerned with the far too frequent 'big one' crashes, sometimes several occurring in last laps or 'overtime'/extra laps of racing on the bigger tracks like Daytona, that are putting too many drivers at risk as well as causing way too much damage to too many cars that can mean large financial losses to teams as well as losing their drivers by injury or possible death. While multiple restarts may be exciting, the carnage is getting to be too much. NASCAR must find ways to slow down the cars on the big tracks and end races at their originally intended number of laps, no more 'overtime' to prevent another deadly crash.



Not sure what option NASCAR has to prevent the "big one". They aren't going to remove Daytona or Talladega from the schedule as these races draw the most fans. They could remove the 'restrictor plates' which would definitely spread out the pack, but who knows what kind of speeds these cars would hit on the super speedways without them. A few years ago NASCAR was pretty open about being nervous with speeds touching 200 mph, well last night we were seeing 205+ mph so there will definitely be some aero package changes before Talladega.

On a positive note, ESPN reports Newman is awake and speaking to family and doctors. Seems incredible considering that hit.
 
bmartino99
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:43 pm

N776AU wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Can you win like that, just pushing the front runner in the wall ?

All the guys who drive for Roger Penske are very good at that.


In this style of super speedway racing, there isn't much they can do. When cars behind the leader stack up and get a run they are going faster than the leader. The leader has to decide if he can safely block the run or let them pass. So go for the block and hope the bumpers line up because if they don't, its going to turn the blocking car.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:05 pm

Well in other motorsports touching an adversary is not a normal thing.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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cjg225
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:08 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Also is it normal for the winner to be gloating like that before they know the actual status of the guy in the mangled car?

As reported, he was not aware of what really happened. It was by him in a split-second.
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Tugger
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:23 pm

Aesma wrote:
Well in other motorsports touching an adversary is not a normal thing.

It isn't? Which motorsport (I assume you mean some racing one). I have seen spectacular F1 crashes and motorcycle races can be bad too.

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Aesma
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:45 am

Yes and if you cause a crash you're penalized, including at the next race if necessary. You can even be banned from a future race, or out of the sport. It's not just "I can't be bothered to slow down, oh well I'll just bump the car in front". In Nascar there is already not much driving involved, if they can't even slow down or brake, are they drivers at all ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
bmartino99
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:55 am

Aesma wrote:
Yes and if you cause a crash you're penalized, including at the next race if necessary. You can even be banned from a future race, or out of the sport. It's not just "I can't be bothered to slow down, oh well I'll just bump the car in front". In Nascar there is already not much driving involved, if they can't even slow down or brake, are they drivers at all ?



As a great fictional man once said "No, no, he didn't slam you, he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you... he rubbed you. And rubbin, son, is racin'." In all seriousness, if you don't think these guys can drive watch Bristol, Watkins Glen, or Sonoma. Also remember that F1 had what? 10 cars in the average field during the 2019 season. The 2019 NASCAR race at Watkins Glen (a former F1 track) had 37 cars in the field. This guys can all drive, whether you like the sport or not.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:28 am

Aesma wrote:
Yes and if you cause a crash you're penalized, including at the next race if necessary. You can even be banned from a future race, or out of the sport. It's not just "I can't be bothered to slow down, oh well I'll just bump the car in front". In Nascar there is already not much driving involved, if they can't even slow down or brake, are they drivers at all ?


There's not much driving involved with winning in F1, but rather who can spend the most cash. Bump drafting has been the technique at these super-speedways for decades. In may ways, the super-speedways are the best tracks for smaller teams to get a win at, as there is much luck in getting out in front at the right time. It's not a matter of not bothering to slow down, you drive in the draft and bump each other a bit. Formula 1 drivers couldn't make it thru one turn with the field as tight as a Cup field at Daytona or Talledega.
From my cold, dead hands
 
blueflyer
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:05 pm

Aesma wrote:
Yes and if you cause a crash you're penalized, including at the next race if necessary. You can even be banned from a future race, or out of the sport. It's not just "I can't be bothered to slow down, oh well I'll just bump the car in front". In Nascar there is already not much driving involved, if they can't even slow down or brake, are they drivers at all ?

Depends on your definition of "cause." Plenty of strange crashes are deemed race incidents and no one is penalized. As for being banned out of the sport, sure, in theory. But not even intentional crashes to damage everyone else's chances at a good qualifying, or driven by rage at one's ineptitude to pass the opponent ahead, are seriously penalized. If F1 was as strict as you are trying to imply, Schumacher, Vettel, and Verstappen would not have (had) the career they do.

Also if F1 implemented measures to restrict the power of engines as Nascar did, competitors would be bunched together for more than just the first lap, and we would, I think, see far more accidental contact and "accidents."

One point where I do agree with you, is watching cars turn left for half a day is boring... Until one flips over a couple of times.
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Aesma
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm

The rules have been strengthened in the last few years. Still, Schumacher lost his standing in the 1997 season, it's as if he wasn't there.

F1 engines are of course heavily restricted, else they would make thousands of hps. As they did in the past. And lasted a couple of laps for qualifying.

We can discuss the merits of particular decisions, but there is no way you can win an F1 race like that.
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T18
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:00 am

You know yall are basically comparing Football (not American) to Rugby right?
Stock cars (much like Touring cars if BTCC is more your thing) allow much more body contact as the wheels are encloused which means the chance of locking wheels and going over the top is much lower (not nil see Bowyer {I think} at Dover about 8 years ago in the Nationwide Series), where as with open wheel cars like F1 and Indycar you need to enforce much stricter standards for blocking and contact to avoid horrific crashes (Webber at Valencia anyone?)
I will also add three points of order, in F1 Newman would likely get called for blocking , Blaney did not win the race anyway and you can 100% still win an F1 race by driving dirty.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
ltbewr
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:35 pm

Today (Sunday) NASCAR's top series will be in Las Vegas for a race although Neuman will obviously not be driving due to his injuries at the Daytona 500. Although little has been disclosed as to his injuries and was able to walk out of the hospital with his family, it is likely he suffered a significant concussion due to the major damage to the car where the driver sits and will have to go through medical clearance before he can resume driving. AN interesting twist in Neuman's story is that papers for divorce were signed a few days before the Daytona 500 race.

There are limits the human body can take and how to limit injury. Adding more roll bar construction to better protect the driver could make it more difficult for them to escape or be removed in a crash. You also don't want to alter the aero package too much or get its own set of unintended consequences such as less control in the turns and triggering more crashes. The Daytona racetrack has about the steepest banking of a racetrack in the world (33%). I took the tour of it years ago that included trying to walk up the banking in the curves. It is very difficult and adds more factors to be considered in any changes.

There is also the desire and pressure to win. Neuman's car was being 'pushed' by a driver of another team but of the same brand of car (Ford) but unintentionally caught the bumper of Neuman's car wrong to put it into the spin and crash. That is something that is difficult to try to regulate.
 
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T18
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Re: Daytona 500 Crash

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:47 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The Daytona racetrack has about the steepest banking of a racetrack in the world (33%).


Point of minor correction. Daytona is 31 Degrees of banking, Talladega has 33 degs as does Slinger Speedway. The old Avus ring was higher still with a 43 degs banked corner (and no wall on the top to prevent cars leaving the bank)
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971

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