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mad99
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:29 am

 
Redd
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:22 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
Congratulating a tyrant who gassed his own people, including innocent children. The proof is there, but It doesn’t fit your narrative. It’s truly terrifying to see people who’ve been so throughly warped by propaganda that they defend evil people.


Really though? The proof is there? Here is some interesting information on the gassing from internal documents, via Wikileaks. Whether he did or didn't gas his own people, I don't know. But there is certainly reasonable doubt.

27 December, 2019
Today WikiLeaks releases more internal documents from the OPCW regarding the investigation into the alleged chemical attack in Douma in April 2018.

One of the documents is an e-mail exchange dated 27 and 28 February between members of the fact finding mission (FFM) deployed to Douma and the senior officials of the OPCW. It includes an e-mail from Sebastien Braha, Chief of Cabinet at the OPCW, where he instructs that an engineering report from Ian Henderson should be removed from the secure registry of the organisation:

“Please get this document out of DRA [Documents Registry Archive]... And please remove all traces, if any, of its delivery/storage/whatever in DRA”.

The main finding of Henderson, who inspected the sites in Douma and two cylinders that were found on the site of the alleged attack, was that they were more likely manually placed there than dropped from a plane or helicopter from considerable heights. His findings were omitted from the official final OPCW report on the Douma incident.

Another document released today is minutes from a meeting on 6 June 2018 where four staff members of the OPCW had discussions with “three Toxicologists/Clinical pharmacologists, one bioanalytical and toxicological chemist” (all specialists in chemical weapons, according to the minutes).

The purpose of this meeting was two-fold. The first objective was

“To solicit expert advice on the value of exhuming suspected victims of the alleged chemical attack in Douma on 7 April 2018”. According to the minutes, the OPCW team was advised by the experts that there would be little use in conducting exhumations. The second point was “To elicit expert opinions from the forensic toxicologists regarding the observed and reported symptoms of the alleged victims.”

More specifically,

“...whether the symptoms observed in victims were consistent with exposure to chlorine or other reactive chlorine gas.”

According to the minutes leaked today: “With respect to the consistency of the observed and reported symptoms of the alleged victims with possible exposure to chlorine gas or similar, the experts were conclusive in their statements that there was no correlation between symptoms and chlorine exposure”.

The OPCW team members wrote that the key “take-away message” from the meeting was

“that the symptoms observed were inconsistent with exposure to chlorine and no other obvious candidate chemical causing the symptoms could be identified”.

The third document is a copy of OPCW e-mail exchanges from 20 to 28 August 2018 discussing the meeting with the toxicologists.

The fourth document is an e-mail exchange from the end of July 2018 where it is stated that the eight OPCW inspectors deployed to Douma during the fact finding mission (except one, a paramedic) should be excluded from discussions on the project.

Once the final report was released on the 1st of March 2019, it became clear that the conclusions of the report had changed significantly in the hands of the new “core” team that assembled it into its final form: “At the conclusion of the in-country activities in the Syrian Arab Republic, the consensus within the FFM team was that there were indications of serious inconsistencies in findings. After the exclusion of all team members other than a small cadre of members who had deployed (and deployed again in October 2018) to Country X, the conclusion seems to have turned completely in the opposite direction. The FFM team members find this confusing, and are concerned to know how this occurred.”


https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:23 pm

Redd wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Assad is a harsh dictator, so I would never call him a legitimate leader. Sure, it would have been better if it hadn't be destroyed, that is a truism. But wouldn't have it been better if Assad stepped down, or even gave the people more freedom when they asked for it? Instead of giving them the pointy end of bullets? It all boils down to Assad and how he decided to react to its people, that were it started and. that is something you continue to ignore.

But in conclusion, you do not have a 3rd way, so my assessment. of you is right after all: dogmatic about two choices: Assad regime or jihadists.


So, when someone is humble enough to say they don't have an opinion, or they don't have all the answers, it makes them dogmatic? You're a real piece of work.... Good thing there are Dutchy's out there with all of the solutions to all our problems. :trophy:


You only talked about two options and you continuously chose the Assad regime. If you said: I do not have all the answers, then I would respect you for that. I don't have all the answers either, but cheering for the Assad regime to win is too much. It is a very difficult situation and the transition to a more democratic form of government or at least a form of government that isn't there just out of self-interest but is there for its citizens is not an easy one.
The Assad regime has demonstrated that it isn't doing anything for its citizens, so why cheer?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:11 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, really, do you even know what you have written? And how ridiculous this sounds? If someone is tortured, you say: ok, no problem, the victim chose to be tortured. Or if a husband beats his wife: it is the wife's fault, she chose this. It is complete and utter bull. But thanks for laughing out loud at your statements.


Each jurisdiction (a country, a state, a nation) establishes their own ways to regulate matters relations between a husband and a wife, a torturer and a victim and the likes. In Netherlands, there is one set of legislature, in, say, State of California - some other, nations like Syria and Saudi Arabia do those differently. And they are in full rights to regulate those matters any way they chose, or even not at all if they don’t want to. I may or may not agree with, say, how divorces are handled in California, or husband-wife relations in Saudi Arabia, but this is their country and their business, and not ours. We are not asked to intervene, and we have no rights to.

Dutchy wrote:
That said: if you take your own ridiculous statement. seriously, why is Russia intervening? I mean, if, what you claim, Syria was slipping into a Kalifat, it is up to the people to decide, not for Russia. Right? So good to see that you at least condemn the Putin regime for intervening in Syria. :roll:


Unlike West, Russia is not intervening. Russia is present in Syria upon invitation of a legitimate government, and acts within a mandate given to them by official and legitimate Syrian government. Western presence there is illegal.
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:13 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Congratulating a tyrant who gassed his own people, including innocent children. The proof is there, but It doesn’t fit your narrative. It’s truly terrifying to see people who’ve been so throughly warped by propaganda that they defend evil people.


However, the adults and children who were supposedly “gassed” then came to the OPCW headquarters and testified that there were no real gassing. Gassing was only in Western media.
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:22 pm

Dutchy wrote:
:rotfl: :rotfl: or actually quite sad.


Yes, West marketing all sorts of con artists and war criminals as “democratic opposition” is indeed sad. And it strikes back at Western countries themselves - for example, over Ukraine the USA isn’t being governed at all.

Dutchy wrote:
First Russia bombs the shit out of them, with numerous hospitals and civilians, targeted (=war crimes), so Russia is firmly in the camp of Assad, do you think they are the right party to organize this So I agree, this political process has obviously no chance at all. Besides, what is Assad going to do? Give up serious powers? He will. end up in jail or worse. That trap of any dictator, you cannot really retire, or you need to put some crony at the helm, which you know is going to protect you, Yeltsin - Putin is the perfect example.


I don’t know if it should be Russia, Assad or someone else to organize the process. But the most important is - this needs to be done by Syrians themselves, when, where and how they want it, without any foreign meddling or advice. Syria is a very complex state, with many religious and ethnic groups. Yes, an attempt by Russia to organize some sort of an event to see who’s out there and what are their concerns, interests could be worthwhile. But if it doesn’t work at this time - there should be no pressure.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:19 pm

At least the Syrians fought for their freedom. I don't know who is right. Most likely, it is a fight between several evil men. And a lot of innocent people died. We don't need to add to the misery by adding our high tech weapons. Nor should China or Russia.

Let the fight burn out. The next generation will forget all about it. Look at Vietnam today.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:26 pm

anrec80 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Congratulating a tyrant who gassed his own people, including innocent children. The proof is there, but It doesn’t fit your narrative. It’s truly terrifying to see people who’ve been so throughly warped by propaganda that they defend evil people.


However, the adults and children who were supposedly “gassed” then came to the OPCW headquarters and testified that there were no real gassing. Gassing was only in Western media.


And OPCW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPCW_Fact ... n_in_Syria

But please provide a link where the OPCW says no-one was attacked by chemicals in Syria during the civil war. I mean the OPCW could be wrong of course..................
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:33 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, really, do you even know what you have written? And how ridiculous this sounds? If someone is tortured, you say: ok, no problem, the victim chose to be tortured. Or if a husband beats his wife: it is the wife's fault, she chose this. It is complete and utter bull. But thanks for laughing out loud at your statements.


Each jurisdiction (a country, a state, a nation) establishes their own ways to regulate matters relations between a husband and a wife, a torturer and a victim and the likes. In Netherlands, there is one set of legislature, in, say, State of California - some other, nations like Syria and Saudi Arabia do those differently. And they are in full rights to regulate those matters any way they chose, or even not at all if they don’t want to. I may or may not agree with, say, how divorces are handled in California, or husband-wife relations in Saudi Arabia, but this is their country and their business, and not ours. We are not asked to intervene, and we have no rights to.

Dutchy wrote:
That said: if you take your own ridiculous statement. seriously, why is Russia intervening? I mean, if, what you claim, Syria was slipping into a Kalifat, it is up to the people to decide, not for Russia. Right? So good to see that you at least condemn the Putin regime for intervening in Syria. :roll:


Unlike West, Russia is not intervening. Russia is present in Syria upon invitation of a legitimate government, and acts within a mandate given to them by official and legitimate Syrian government. Western presence there is illegal.


So you do not comprehend a simple comparison? Make it more simple for you, your reasoning: if a country has a dictator, it is what the citizens want. if a wife has a beating husband, it is what the wife wants. That is your point of view, not mine.

Or, it isn't even your point of view, because then you go on when 90% of the Syrian territory has been taken over by other groups, you go on to defend Russian intervention on behalf of the Assad regime, so taken your reasoning seriously, I must conclude you think Russia should not have done it, because apparently the Syrians rejected Assad and were entitled to it. But you defend the Russian intervention anyway, so that makes you inconsistent, and that means you are not taking a stand for something, but your only objective is - as always - defend the Putin regime. That is the only consistent thing you do around here, nothing else.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So you do not comprehend a simple comparison? Make it more simple for you, your reasoning: if a country has a dictator, it is what the citizens want. if a wife has a beating husband, it is what the wife wants. That is your point of view, not mine.


These situations aren’t the same, and second, they both are difficult ones and don’t really go well with simple solutions. The problem of spousal abuse is complex, and one thing you do not have is - a crowd of volunteers and activists crashing by the couple’s house, lynching the husband and starting to teach the wife how to live her life. Same is true with nations.

Dutchy wrote:
Or, it isn't even your point of view, because then you go on when 90% of the Syrian territory has been taken over by other groups, you go on to defend Russian intervention on behalf of the Assad regime, so taken your reasoning seriously, I must conclude you think Russia should not have done it, because apparently the Syrians rejected Assad and were entitled to it. But you defend the Russian intervention anyway, so that makes you inconsistent, and that means you are not taking a stand for something, but your only objective is - as always - defend the Putin regime. That is the only consistent thing you do around here, nothing else.


90% of Syrian territory was in the hands of ISIS and an-Nusra, and they do not represent anyone. Syrians did not reject their leadership, and Assad was and remains the legitimate leader of that nation. Hence he has full rights to ask for help any military - be it Russian, Chinese, American or some other.
 
Sokes
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:26 am

Are there no Wahhabists in Syria which deserve our support?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Newark727
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:01 am

anrec80 wrote:
Syrians did not reject their leadership, and Assad was and remains the legitimate leader of that nation. Hence he has full rights to ask for help any military - be it Russian, Chinese, American or some other.


Are you kidding? Eight-year-long civil wars don't just happen. If the thousands of Syrians taking up arms against him aren't enough to constitute a rejection of Assad's legitimate rule, how about the hundreds of thousands who fled the country under his rulership?
 
tu204
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:28 am

Sokes wrote:
Are there no Wahhabists in Syria which deserve our support?


Most of the ones you supported are either a couple feet under, changed sides or refugeed themselves to Europe :lol:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:37 am

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, really, do you even know what you have written? And how ridiculous this sounds? If someone is tortured, you say: ok, no problem, the victim chose to be tortured. Or if a husband beats his wife: it is the wife's fault, she chose this. It is complete and utter bull. But thanks for laughing out loud at your statements.


Each jurisdiction (a country, a state, a nation) establishes their own ways to regulate matters relations between a husband and a wife, a torturer and a victim and the likes. In Netherlands, there is one set of legislature, in, say, State of California - some other, nations like Syria and Saudi Arabia do those differently. And they are in full rights to regulate those matters any way they chose, or even not at all if they don’t want to. I may or may not agree with, say, how divorces are handled in California, or husband-wife relations in Saudi Arabia, but this is their country and their business, and not ours. We are not asked to intervene, and we have no rights to.

Dutchy wrote:
That said: if you take your own ridiculous statement. seriously, why is Russia intervening? I mean, if, what you claim, Syria was slipping into a Kalifat, it is up to the people to decide, not for Russia. Right? So good to see that you at least condemn the Putin regime for intervening in Syria. :roll:


Unlike West, Russia is not intervening. Russia is present in Syria upon invitation of a legitimate government, and acts within a mandate given to them by official and legitimate Syrian government. Western presence there is illegal.


So you do not comprehend a simple comparison? Make it more simple for you, your reasoning: if a country has a dictator, it is what the citizens want. if a wife has a beating husband, it is what the wife wants. That is your point of view, not mine.

Or, it isn't even your point of view, because then you go on when 90% of the Syrian territory has been taken over by other groups, you go on to defend Russian intervention on behalf of the Assad regime, so taken your reasoning seriously, I must conclude you think Russia should not have done it, because apparently the Syrians rejected Assad and were entitled to it. But you defend the Russian intervention anyway, so that makes you inconsistent, and that means you are not taking a stand for something, but your only objective is - as always - defend the Putin regime. That is the only consistent thing you do around here, nothing else.


So the idea that many of the Syrians in those 90% of the territory didn't have much say about whether they wanted or not to have bearded guys with guns running them around eludes you?

Again, plenty of videos out there of Russian forces recieving a heroes welcome after retaking those towns. Yeah, people in Raqqa were happy with them, but they are a minority.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:12 am

mad99 wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-war-chemical-weapons-watchdog-opcw-assad-damascus-russia-a9262336.html

the gas stories are western lies



Shall we have the expert decide that: https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/featu ... a-and-opcw
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:16 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Each jurisdiction (a country, a state, a nation) establishes their own ways to regulate matters relations between a husband and a wife, a torturer and a victim and the likes. In Netherlands, there is one set of legislature, in, say, State of California - some other, nations like Syria and Saudi Arabia do those differently. And they are in full rights to regulate those matters any way they chose, or even not at all if they don’t want to. I may or may not agree with, say, how divorces are handled in California, or husband-wife relations in Saudi Arabia, but this is their country and their business, and not ours. We are not asked to intervene, and we have no rights to.



Unlike West, Russia is not intervening. Russia is present in Syria upon invitation of a legitimate government, and acts within a mandate given to them by official and legitimate Syrian government. Western presence there is illegal.


So you do not comprehend a simple comparison? Make it more simple for you, your reasoning: if a country has a dictator, it is what the citizens want. if a wife has a beating husband, it is what the wife wants. That is your point of view, not mine.

Or, it isn't even your point of view, because then you go on when 90% of the Syrian territory has been taken over by other groups, you go on to defend Russian intervention on behalf of the Assad regime, so taken your reasoning seriously, I must conclude you think Russia should not have done it, because apparently the Syrians rejected Assad and were entitled to it. But you defend the Russian intervention anyway, so that makes you inconsistent, and that means you are not taking a stand for something, but your only objective is - as always - defend the Putin regime. That is the only consistent thing you do around here, nothing else.


So the idea that many of the Syrians in those 90% of the territory didn't have much say about whether they wanted or not to have bearded guys with guns running them around eludes you?


Tell that to Anrec80, it is his argument, not mine.

tu204 wrote:
Again, plenty of videos out there of Russian forces recieving a heroes welcome after retaking those towns. Yeah, people in Raqqa were happy with them, but they are a minority.


So I guess if that is how we are going to judge things, I guess Iraq was a raging success for America, and in the beginning, the people who were uprising the Assad regime were welcomed as liberators. Com'on you are smarter than this to use this kind of argumentation. It is anecdotical at best.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:00 am

Dutchy wrote:
mad99 wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-war-chemical-weapons-watchdog-opcw-assad-damascus-russia-a9262336.html

the gas stories are western lies



Shall we have the expert decide that: https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/featu ... a-and-opcw


Well the article that Mad posted was exactly about the fact that many expert's findings and opinions that were on the panel were censored from the report. You know, kinda like the OPCW were told what their conclusion should be and anything that contradicts it should be excluded and destroyed.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:45 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
mad99 wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-war-chemical-weapons-watchdog-opcw-assad-damascus-russia-a9262336.html

the gas stories are western lies



Shall we have the expert decide that: https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/featu ... a-and-opcw


Well the article that Mad posted was exactly about the fact that many expert's findings and opinions that were on the panel were censored from the report. You know, kinda like the OPCW were told what their conclusion should be and anything that contradicts it should be excluded and destroyed.


Spread doubt about all experts in order that nobody believes anything anymore, right?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Redd
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:57 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Redd wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Assad is a harsh dictator, so I would never call him a legitimate leader. Sure, it would have been better if it hadn't be destroyed, that is a truism. But wouldn't have it been better if Assad stepped down, or even gave the people more freedom when they asked for it? Instead of giving them the pointy end of bullets? It all boils down to Assad and how he decided to react to its people, that were it started and. that is something you continue to ignore.

But in conclusion, you do not have a 3rd way, so my assessment. of you is right after all: dogmatic about two choices: Assad regime or jihadists.


So, when someone is humble enough to say they don't have an opinion, or they don't have all the answers, it makes them dogmatic? You're a real piece of work.... Good thing there are Dutchy's out there with all of the solutions to all our problems. :trophy:


You only talked about two options and you continuously chose the Assad regime. If you said: I do not have all the answers, then I would respect you for that. I don't have all the answers either, but cheering for the Assad regime to win is too much. It is a very difficult situation and the transition to a more democratic form of government or at least a form of government that isn't there just out of self-interest but is there for its citizens is not an easy one.
The Assad regime has demonstrated that it isn't doing anything for its citizens, so why cheer?


I didn't talk about two options, I didn't talk about any options. That was only you talking about options... I'm very happy that the war will be over, and I am also very happy Assad is at the helm for now. Assad is secular which is important as we don't need another Religious Islamic Republic in the world, and America won't be government building which is important given their track record in the Middle East over the past 20 years. So given the dire situation, I'd say it's a win win for the people of Syria.

Now if had you asked me my opinion on Assad, that's a completely different matter
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:21 pm

Redd wrote:
I didn't talk about two options, I didn't talk about any options. That was only you talking about options... I'm very happy that the war will be over, and I am also very happy Assad is at the helm for now. Assad is secular which is important as we don't need another Religious Islamic Republic in the world, and America won't be government building which is important given their track record in the Middle East over the past 20 years. So given the dire situation, I'd say it's a win win for the people of Syria.

Now if had you asked me my opinion on Assad, that's a completely different matter


See how. you put me on the wrong foot? You. are happy with the Assad regime at the helm. Apparently for two reasons: he isn't backed by the US and he is secular.

Ok, what is your opinion on Assad?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Sokes
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:20 pm

Anybody read "Falsehood in war-time" from Arthur Ponsonby? My favorite story is of a priest used as a clapper in a church bell.
Then there are stories about atrocities against babies. Indeed Nayirah's testimony 1990 in preparation of the Gulf war of George Bush I was an obvious stolen idea.

Image
Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ during her testimony. It was later revealed that she was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States and that her testimony could not be verified.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Expert is somebody who has experienced the war or at least somebody who knows a few refugees. For anything coming from mainstream media please refer to above mentioned book.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:50 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Are you kidding? Eight-year-long civil wars don't just happen. If the thousands of Syrians taking up arms against him aren't enough to constitute a rejection of Assad's legitimate rule, how about the hundreds of thousands who fled the country under his rulership?


A leader’s acceptance or rejection happens as part of all-inclusive national dialogue or a democratic process. It doesn’t happen with foreign meddling, and certainly not by taking up arms. When a few thousands are taking up arms, this is simply an attempt of an armed coup, nothing more.
 
Redd
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
Redd wrote:
I didn't talk about two options, I didn't talk about any options. That was only you talking about options... I'm very happy that the war will be over, and I am also very happy Assad is at the helm for now. Assad is secular which is important as we don't need another Religious Islamic Republic in the world, and America won't be government building which is important given their track record in the Middle East over the past 20 years. So given the dire situation, I'd say it's a win win for the people of Syria.

Now if had you asked me my opinion on Assad, that's a completely different matter


See how. you put me on the wrong foot? You. are happy with the Assad regime at the helm. Apparently for two reasons: he isn't backed by the US and he is secular.

Ok, what is your opinion on Assad?


My friend, is it I who put you on the wrong foot? You accused me of a dogmatic approach and strictly closed minded two pronged one at that!

As for my opinion on Assad, I'm glad you asked. I am quite conflicted as I've watched several interviews with him and I just can't see the evil, like you can with Saudi leaders, Hussein, Gaddafi, etc... He seems reasonable, calm and collected. Knowing that ruling in the Middle East takes a bit of strong hand, I'm also willing to overlook some of the brutal things he's done before the ''uprising'' as, whether you like it or not, you need a strong hand to keep stability in that region... He was also able to keep the nation of Syria secular, prosperous and very free (compared to other nations in the Middle East) with more human rights and women's rights than just about any other country in that region save for Israel.

But, judging him from a western perspective, I feel uncomfortable with any dictatorship and human rights violations, and certainly wouldn't want to live in a country ruled by Assad myself. I've researched, quite thoroughly might I add the alleged gas attacks perpetrated by Assad, wikileaks opens a window into that world casting some severe doubt on Assad perpetrating a gas attack. So not only is there no clear evidence actually linking the gas attack to Assad, there is actually little evidence of there even being a gas attack, according to the people who actually were on the ground and investigated it... Also taking into account him not being a crazed lunatic, I just can't believe that he would have ordered something like that. He'd never shown a predisposition or indicators for such atrocious behaviour in the past.

I don't think Assad is a good leader, but I do think he is as good as they come in that region. Also, if you know just a little of the history of the Middle East you know that just about every leader is and has been much, much worse than Assad towards their respective populations.

If there is one thing we've learned here in the West, it's that our policy for the Middle East is a total disaster. Any country we touch turns into a much worse place than it had been before. I also don't think that we understand the Middle East enough to be trying to be nation building there or getting involved.

So, I don't like the guy much at all. But I think calling him a monster is nothing short of falsehood and propaganda. I also think that working hand in hand with Tyrants like Erdogan who has slaughtered thousands of Kurds, and criticizing people like Assad who was no where near as bad of a tyrant is a prime example of political hypocrisy of the west and its very sad.... Not to mention being bedfellows with Saudi Arabia, literally the worst place in the world when it comes to human rights.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:53 pm

Redd wrote:
As for my opinion on Assad, I'm glad you asked. I am quite conflicted as I've watched several interviews with him and I just can't see the evil, like you can with Saudi leaders, Hussein, Gaddafi, etc... He seems reasonable, calm and collected.


Ok, yes he seems reasonable. He should have stayed an eye-doctor in London. Don't know what conclusion you want to draw about a few interviews. You can't judge anyone accurately if you see some interviews.

Redd wrote:
Knowing that ruling in the Middle East takes a bit of strong hand, I'm also willing to overlook some of the brutal things he's done before the ''uprising'' as, whether you like it or not, you need a strong hand to keep stability in that region... He was also able to keep the nation of Syria secular, prosperous and


The Assad regime hasn't changed when he took over from his father. It is a system in place, not just the man. I have a moral problem when you say society needs a strong hand in the. Middle east, you seem to think that these people can't live without someone ruling over them. I just don't subscribe to that view.

Redd wrote:
very free (compared to other nations in the Middle East) with more human rights and women's rights than just about any other country in that region save for Israel.


Sure, some religious rights were more observed and more rights for women. But I see human rights as absolute, so observing a bit more is nice, but not nearly good enough.

Redd wrote:
But, judging him from a western perspective, I feel uncomfortable with any dictatorship and human rights violations, and certainly wouldn't want to live in a country ruled by Assad myself.


That seems to be the key, I guess. You do not want to live there, but you feel that it is good enough for the Syrians right now and we should condone this regime because the only alternative is extremism.

Redd wrote:
I've researched, quite thoroughly might I add the alleged gas attacks perpetrated by Assad, wikileaks opens a window into that world casting some severe doubt on Assad perpetrating a gas attack. So not only is there no clear evidence actually linking the gas attack to Assad, there is actually little evidence of there even being a gas attack, according to the people who actually were on the ground and investigated it... Also taking into account him not being a crazed lunatic, I just can't believe that he would have ordered something like that. He'd never shown a predisposition or indicators for such atrocious behaviour in the past.


I would say, dangerous to make some far-reaching conclusions on self-research and a perceived psychological profile of the leader.

The Assad regime had chemical weapons, those supposed to be destroyed by now, he had the means. And the Assad regime had no problem to bomb its citizens with barrel bombs, that is just a fact. I see the step of actually using chemical weapons on its citizens as not too much of a leap. Anyhow, I rather take the official report on face value, otherwise, we could better get rid of all these organizations like the OPCW.

Redd wrote:
I don't think Assad is a good leader, but I do think he is as good as they come in that region. Also, if you know just a little of the history of the Middle East you know that just about every leader is and has been much, much worse than Assad towards their respective populations.


It probably depends on what you measure, but sure, he might be. Point being, is that good enough for the Syrians? You said yourself that you wouldn't want to live under an Assad regime.

Redd wrote:
If there is one thing we've learned here in the West, it's that our policy for the Middle East is a total disaster. Any country we touch turns into a much worse place than it had been before. I also don't think that we understand the Middle East enough to be trying to be nation building there or getting involved.


After the cold war, probably yes. So we just should give up and let the dictators do their thing, regardless of what they do to the population?

Redd wrote:
So, I don't like the guy much at all. But I think calling him a monster is nothing short of falsehood and propaganda. I also think that working hand in hand with Tyrants like Erdogan who has slaughtered thousands of Kurds, and criticizing people like Assad who was no where near as bad of a tyrant is a prime example of political hypocrisy of the west and its very sad.... Not to mention being bedfellows with Saudi Arabia, literally the worst place in the world when it comes to human rights.


Erdogan isn't popular in the west. With Saudi Arabia, point taken, very true, it is geopolitical reasons, can't wait of society got rid of its addiction of oil. Would be much better for the Middle East as well.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
Ok, yes he seems reasonable. He should have stayed an eye-doctor in London. Don't know what conclusion you want to draw about a few interviews. You can't judge anyone accurately if you see some interviews.


I don’t know if Assad is a good President or not, and would not try to adjudicate. This is not our business, this is up to Syrians themselves. But I do respect Assad for not abandoning his country and running away like Yanikovich did; instead he went on seeking help for his nation and found it. My country - Ukraine - wasn’t fortunate to have such leader.

Dutchy wrote:
The Assad regime hasn't changed when he took over from his father. It is a system in place, not just the man. I have a moral problem when you say society needs a strong hand in the. Middle east, you seem to think that these people can't live without someone ruling over them. I just don't subscribe to that view.


Dutchy wrote:
Sure, some religious rights were more observed and more rights for women. But I see human rights as absolute, so observing a bit more is nice, but not nearly good enough.



Syrian regime is business of Syrians themselves, nobody else’s. So are rights in Syria - it’s up to them to figure it out.

Dutchy wrote:
After the cold war, probably yes. So we just should give up and let the dictators do their thing, regardless of what they do to the population?


Sure, continue to ignite bloody civil wars and destroy countries is more of a right thing to do. Let’s not forget that Most recent “democratic” intrusions resulted on thousands of times more deaths and tragedies than dictatorships. Hence each nation is better off figuring out things with their dictatorship itself. Nobody will do it better.
 
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:07 am

Dutchy wrote:

The Assad regime had chemical weapons, those supposed to be destroyed by now, he had the means. And the Assad regime had no problem to bomb its citizens with barrel bombs, that is just a fact. I see the step of actually using chemical weapons on its citizens as not too much of a leap. Anyhow, I rather take the official report on face value, otherwise, we could better get rid of all these organizations like the OPCW.

Well, if you read the reports by the people who were actually on the ground and compiled the initial OPCW report, it says chemical weapons had most likely not been used, Then, the official report comes out and contradicts the scientists who were on the ground. Luckily we have Wikileaks, it shows that the official report was doctored to show a different result, that chemical weapons had been used.


Dutchy wrote:

After the cold war, probably yes. So we just should give up and let the dictators do their thing, regardless of what they do to the population?


For a liberal, you have a very imperial/colonialist approach to world politics. God forbid letting people govern themselves..... :rotfl: Dutchy, that's not only a derogatory approach to the people living in these regions, not only ignoring that Western intervention has caused magnitudes more death, suffering and destruction in those regions 100% of the time, not only ignoring that the West has installed countless numbers of these dictators to serve their own interests, but you're also ignoring that the populations had had it much better before western intervention, also 100% of the time.

Insanity is doing the same thing over again, and expecting a different result.
 
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:11 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Ok, yes he seems reasonable. He should have stayed an eye-doctor in London. Don't know what conclusion you want to draw about a few interviews. You can't judge anyone accurately if you see some interviews.


I don’t know if Assad is a good President or not, and would not try to adjudicate. This is not our business, this is up to Syrians themselves. But I do respect Assad for not abandoning his country and running away like Yanikovich did; instead he went on seeking help for his nation and found it. My country - Ukraine - wasn’t fortunate to have such leader.

Dutchy wrote:
The Assad regime hasn't changed when he took over from his father. It is a system in place, not just the man. I have a moral problem when you say society needs a strong hand in the. Middle east, you seem to think that these people can't live without someone ruling over them. I just don't subscribe to that view.


Dutchy wrote:
Sure, some religious rights were more observed and more rights for women. But I see human rights as absolute, so observing a bit more is nice, but not nearly good enough.



Syrian regime is business of Syrians themselves, nobody else’s. So are rights in Syria - it’s up to them to figure it out.

Dutchy wrote:
After the cold war, probably yes. So we just should give up and let the dictators do their thing, regardless of what they do to the population?


Sure, continue to ignite bloody civil wars and destroy countries is more of a right thing to do. Let’s not forget that Most recent “democratic” intrusions resulted on thousands of times more deaths and tragedies than dictatorships. Hence each nation is better off figuring out things with their dictatorship itself. Nobody will do it better.


Two things:
- You continue to blame the victim for having a harsh dictator.
- And you are not opposed to intervening, you are a fierce advocate of Putin's intervention, very much including the "Green men". So this is hypocritical. More accurate would be: I am against western intervention, whatever Putin does is the best.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:25 am

Redd wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The Assad regime had chemical weapons, those supposed to be destroyed by now, he had the means. And the Assad regime had no problem to bomb its citizens with barrel bombs, that is just a fact. I see the step of actually using chemical weapons on its citizens as not too much of a leap. Anyhow, I rather take the official report on face value, otherwise, we could better get rid of all these organizations like the OPCW.

Well, if you read the reports by the people who were actually on the ground and compiled the initial OPCW report, it says chemical weapons had most likely not been used, Then, the official report comes out and contradicts the scientists who were on the ground. Luckily we have Wikileaks, it shows that the official report was doctored to show a different result, that chemical weapons had been used.


The difficulty is, of course, that you make a judgement with an incomplete picture and you make a far-reaching conclusion. So if you say the OPCW has adopted the report, to what goal? And why?

Redd wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
After the cold war, probably yes. So we just should give up and let the dictators do their thing, regardless of what they do to the population?


For a liberal, you have a very imperial/colonialist approach to world politics. God forbid letting people govern themselves..... :rotfl: Dutchy, that's not only a derogatory approach to the people living in these regions, not only ignoring that Western intervention has caused magnitudes more death, suffering and destruction in those regions 100% of the time, not only ignoring that the West has installed countless numbers of these dictators to serve their own interests, but you're also ignoring that the populations had had it much better before western intervention, also 100% of the time.


Derogatory approach? You advocate here that these people can't govern themselves and need a dictator.

Redd wrote:
Insanity is doing the same thing over again, and expecting a different result.


This quote of Einstein has been used to much.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Redd
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:56 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The difficulty is, of course, that you make a judgement with an incomplete picture and you make a far-reaching conclusion. So if you say the OPCW has adopted the report, to what goal? And why?

If I knew why I'd be picking up my Pulitzer tomorrow. All I can do is repeat what the actual scientists on the ground actually put into the report and it clearly does not support the chemical weapons theory. Im not making any judgement, and there is nothing far-reaching about what was written in the report by the scientists on the ground. Far-reaching is ignoring the fact that the report had been changed from the what people on the ground had concluded, to support what you feel good about.

Dutchy wrote:
Derogatory approach? You advocate here that these people can't govern themselves and need a dictator.


lol.....You want to go in to these countries and dictate their method of government, I'm advocating non-intervention and letting these countries govern themselves. You're really grasping at straws here man.

Redd wrote:
Insanity is doing the same thing over again, and expecting a different result.

Dutchy wrote:
This quote of Einstein has been used to much.


Apparently not nearly enough.
 
Sokes
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:40 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Redd wrote:
[Insanity is doing the same thing over again, and expecting a different result.


This quote of Einstein has been used to much.


I think what Einstein meant to say is that whenever one blames a politician of using weapons of mass destruction, people go crazy without asking for evidence. People with a more critical mind again and again try to discuss the topic based on evidence, expecting other results.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:02 am

Assad has his "Mission Accomplished" moment.

My advice to America... stay the Hell out of Civil Wars. It's none of your Damn Business!!
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
anrec80
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:17 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Assad has his "Mission Accomplished" moment.

My advice to America... stay the Hell out of Civil Wars. It's none of your Damn Business!!


Agree. And out of protests as well (that end up leading to such wars).
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:09 pm

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Get this person to the International Court of Justice, ASAP


What humanity needs the most is some sort of court for “democracy supporters” - thanks to whom this bloodshed has started in 2011. And I hope we live up to that moment.


Rewriting history again, are we? It was an uprise of the Syrians requesting a bit more freedom, the Assad regime decided to give a reply in bullets. So you agree that the Assad regime should answer for this and other crimes against humanity in the International Court of Justice. I didn't think you would feel this way, but hey, you learn something any day.

anrec80 wrote:
And - congrats to Syrian leadership and Syrian people, hopefully they can rebuild their country and peaceful life.


.........under the rule of the Assad regime, a harsh dictatorship willing to kill its citizen to keep in power. So I kind of understand you congratulating the Assad regime and especially the Putin regime with keeping its geopolitical presence there, but no, the Syrian people, they definitely not the winners here.



It’s truly terrifying that people like this exist isn’t it? To think these highly gullible, entirely ignorant people who can support such an evil man exist in large numbers is the stuff of nightmares.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:21 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

What humanity needs the most is some sort of court for “democracy supporters” - thanks to whom this bloodshed has started in 2011. And I hope we live up to that moment.


Rewriting history again, are we? It was an uprise of the Syrians requesting a bit more freedom, the Assad regime decided to give a reply in bullets. So you agree that the Assad regime should answer for this and other crimes against humanity in the International Court of Justice. I didn't think you would feel this way, but hey, you learn something any day.

anrec80 wrote:
And - congrats to Syrian leadership and Syrian people, hopefully they can rebuild their country and peaceful life.


.........under the rule of the Assad regime, a harsh dictatorship willing to kill its citizen to keep in power. So I kind of understand you congratulating the Assad regime and especially the Putin regime with keeping its geopolitical presence there, but no, the Syrian people, they definitely not the winners here.



It’s truly terrifying that people like this exist isn’t it? To think these highly gullible, entirely ignorant people who can support such an evil man exist in large numbers is the stuff of nightmares.


:checkmark: Especially as some who enjoy all the liberties of a liberal democracy and yet decided to support authoritarian regimes.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:12 am

Dutchy wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Rewriting history again, are we? It was an uprise of the Syrians requesting a bit more freedom, the Assad regime decided to give a reply in bullets. So you agree that the Assad regime should answer for this and other crimes against humanity in the International Court of Justice. I didn't think you would feel this way, but hey, you learn something any day.



.........under the rule of the Assad regime, a harsh dictatorship willing to kill its citizen to keep in power. So I kind of understand you congratulating the Assad regime and especially the Putin regime with keeping its geopolitical presence there, but no, the Syrian people, they definitely not the winners here.



It’s truly terrifying that people like this exist isn’t it? To think these highly gullible, entirely ignorant people who can support such an evil man exist in large numbers is the stuff of nightmares.


:checkmark: Especially as some who enjoy all the liberties of a liberal democracy and yet decided to support authoritarian regimes.



Precisely my friend. I don’t think these people truly understand that they’re playing with fire. It’s unfortunate that the last remaining survivors of the concentration camps are almost gone. At this moment in time, we need their voices to remind us of the dangers people like Assad, Bolsonaro, Erdogan, Duterte, Trump and Putin pose. One of the survivors living in Italy actually needs police protection now due to rising antisemitism. In my opinion, right wing extremism is one of the greatest threats we face. I live in a very pro-Trump state and their beliefs and world view are extremely concerning to say the least.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:28 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:


It’s truly terrifying that people like this exist isn’t it? To think these highly gullible, entirely ignorant people who can support such an evil man exist in large numbers is the stuff of nightmares.


:checkmark: Especially as some who enjoy all the liberties of a liberal democracy and yet decided to support authoritarian regimes.



Precisely my friend. I don’t think these people truly understand that they’re playing with fire. It’s unfortunate that the last remaining survivors of the concentration camps are almost gone. At this moment in time, we need their voices to remind us of the dangers people like Assad, Bolsonaro, Erdogan, Duterte, Trump and Putin pose. One of the survivors living in Italy actually needs police protection now due to rising antisemitism. In my opinion, right wing extremism is one of the greatest threats we face. I live in a very pro-Trump state and their beliefs and world view are extremely concerning to say the least.


In western liberal democracies the massage of an easy answer to your problems and uncertainties is an attractive one. That is the massage of the populist, "they are the problem", not you. Give me your vote (=power) and I will solve it. Of course they can't when they are in power because there aren't easy any solutions. And yet these populist just change their tune and still, it is everyone's fault, except them (and their voters). It is toxic for society and offers no solutions. And in the end it is dangerous for especially minorities. In the end we are all minorities, so it is a roll of the dice if you are the minorities in that situation or not.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:14 pm

Dutchy wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

:checkmark: Especially as some who enjoy all the liberties of a liberal democracy and yet decided to support authoritarian regimes.



Precisely my friend. I don’t think these people truly understand that they’re playing with fire. It’s unfortunate that the last remaining survivors of the concentration camps are almost gone. At this moment in time, we need their voices to remind us of the dangers people like Assad, Bolsonaro, Erdogan, Duterte, Trump and Putin pose. One of the survivors living in Italy actually needs police protection now due to rising antisemitism. In my opinion, right wing extremism is one of the greatest threats we face. I live in a very pro-Trump state and their beliefs and world view are extremely concerning to say the least.


In western liberal democracies the massage of an easy answer to your problems and uncertainties is an attractive one. That is the massage of the populist, "they are the problem", not you. Give me your vote (=power) and I will solve it. Of course they can't when they are in power because there aren't easy any solutions. And yet these populist just change their tune and still, it is everyone's fault, except them (and their voters). It is toxic for society and offers no solutions. And in the end it is dangerous for especially minorities. In the end we are all minorities, so it is a roll of the dice if you are the minorities in that situation or not.



Even the pandemic is being politicized. This is a real inconvenience for the Trump’s of the world. Still, they can’t place politics aside for the good of the people. Just terrible humans overall.
 
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:00 pm

But economic hardship and goods shortages have already begun to chafe, and public demonstrations against Mr. Assad have broken out in various cities in recent months.


Link

So the Assad regime might declare it is all over, but people seem to be taken back to the streets again because of economic. hardship.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
bhill
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:24 pm

Redd wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Realy? Human right watch report. So proof your statement:



Show me a Human Rights Watch report on Bill Clinton, GWB, Regan, Obama, etc, . Just because they had people in other nations killed doesn't count?


Funny, I do not remember ANY of those Leaders deploying CHEMICAL WEAPONS against anyone!
Carpe Pices
 
Redd
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:28 pm

bhill wrote:
Redd wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Realy? Human right watch report. So proof your statement:



Show me a Human Rights Watch report on Bill Clinton, GWB, Regan, Obama, etc, . Just because they had people in other nations killed doesn't count?


Funny, I do not remember ANY of those Leaders deploying CHEMICAL WEAPONS against anyone!


How did you come up with such an amazing fallacy?
 
tu204
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:05 am

Dutchy wrote:
But economic hardship and goods shortages have already begun to chafe, and public demonstrations against Mr. Assad have broken out in various cities in recent months.


Link

So the Assad regime might declare it is all over, but people seem to be taken back to the streets again because of economic. hardship.


What caught my eye in this article is that the US again throws sanctions on a country recovering from a decade long civil war. Way to go!

And then they go complain that Hezbollah and Iran are made to feel welcome in Syria. Well yeah, they are the only ones (plus Russia) helping to rebuild the country. Way to work on a reputation.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:24 am

tu204 wrote:
What caught my eye in this article is that the US again throws sanctions on a country recovering from a decade long civil war.


Sure, that's what caught your eye.Not that the Assad regime is still in charge, not that the Assad regime reacts with violence again, not that the Assad regime contracts an uprise again. No, what your eye sees is the sanctions against one of the most repressive regimes.

Yes, Iran is helping the Assad regime, they support the Assad regime.
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tu204
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:43 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
What caught my eye in this article is that the US again throws sanctions on a country recovering from a decade long civil war.


Sure, that's what caught your eye.Not that the Assad regime is still in charge, not that the Assad regime reacts with violence again, not that the Assad regime contracts an uprise again. No, what your eye sees is the sanctions against one of the most repressive regimes.

Yes, Iran is helping the Assad regime, they support the Assad regime.


I see these sanctions as another cheap attempt at trying to destabilise a country that is just starting to recover from a decade long civil war and once again proof of western regimes' shortsightedness.

I have absolutely nothing against Assad remaining at the helm, nor do I see anything wrong with him using force and I won't be surprised if it's more decisive as last time it was too little, too late and led to the mess that could have theoretically been preventable.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Iran supporting Assad since the western regimes are doing all they can to screw them further. Just like I see nothing wrong with Iran screwing with western interests in the area and Iraq in particular.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:55 pm

tu204 wrote:
I see these sanctions as another cheap attempt at trying to destabilise a country that is just starting to recover from a decade long civil war and once again proof of


Of course, you see it like that. That is fine, you are entitled to your own opinions, just not to your own facts.

tu204 wrote:
western regimes' shortsightedness.


The west doesn't have regimes, Russia has a regime. A regime is what a governmental body is called in an autocratic government style, like the one in Russia or Syria. We already went over this, but apparently it wasn't clear the last time, since you are using it again. Anyhow, I don't mind telling you again.

tu204 wrote:
I have absolutely nothing against Assad remaining at the helm, nor do I see anything wrong with him using force and I won't be surprised if it's more decisive as last time it was too little, too late and led to the mess that could have theoretically been preventable.


Of course, you see it like that. You are known to support the Assad regime.

Syrian government and allied forces
Direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects, and indiscriminate attacks
Government and allied forces continued to commit war crimes and other serious violations of international humanitarian law, including indiscriminate attacks and direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects. Government forces, with the support of Russia, repeatedly attacked Idlib and Hama governorates in north-western Syria and the northern part of Aleppo governorate, all of which were controlled by Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham. They carried out indiscriminate attacks and direct attacks on civilian homes, schools, bakeries, rescue operations, hospitals and medical facilities, including by artillery shelling and air strikes, killing and injuring hundreds of civilians, including rescue and medical workers.

On 26 March, Syrian government forces fired rockets at a school in Sheikh Idriss, east of Idlib city, killing a 10-year-old boy and injuring two other boys aged nine and 10.

Between April and September, at least 51 medical facilities and 59 schools were damaged as a result of hostilities in Idlib, Hama and northern Aleppo, according to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). For example, Syrian government forces dropped four munitions in an aerial attack on 9 March that struck al-Hayat hospital, a blood bank, an ambulance response unit and a facility of the Syrian Civil Defence, also known as the White Helmets – all located within 100m of each other – as well as residential neighbourhoods, killing at least two civilians and injuring a medical worker.

On 1 August, the UN Secretary-General established a board of inquiry to investigate “incidents” that destroyed or damaged “facilities on the deconfliction list and UN-supported facilities” in Idlib.


Link

But we already know what kind of regime the Assad regime is. And you are supporting it, by your own admission. And now you are saying this harsh regime should be even harder on Syrians. So tell me, how can we draw any other conclusion than that you support the regime for geopolitical reasons and don't care about the Syrians at all.

tu204 wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with Iran supporting Assad since the western regimes are doing all they can to screw them further. Just like I see nothing wrong with Iran screwing with western interests in the area and Iraq in particular.


So again a geopolitical statement, has nothing to do with the citizens to further and better their lives. Just self-interest of a Russian.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
Posts: 2168
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:32 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
western regimes' shortsightedness.


The west doesn't have regimes, Russia has a regime. A regime is what a governmental body is called in an autocratic government style, like the one in Russia or Syria. We already went over this, but apparently it wasn't clear the last time, since you are using it again. Anyhow, I don't mind telling you again.

Hmmm, perhaps the term "Vassals" fits better. Albeit with the current administration in the White House in D.C. screwing you guys left right and center is starting to plant the seeds of some resemblance of sovreignty in your politicians in some tiny ammount. Proves my point, btw.
As far as regimes go, also fit the definition. Same system as Russia, democracy, but changing one for another doesn't lead to any major change in the policies. Keeps people like you happy with the illusion though.

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with Iran supporting Assad since the western regimes are doing all they can to screw them further. Just like I see nothing wrong with Iran screwing with western interests in the area and Iraq in particular.


So again a geopolitical statement, has nothing to do with the citizens to further and better their lives. Just self-interest of a Russian.


Has absolutely everything to do with that. No war = increasing living standards, despite all attempts by western regimes/vassals to stop this from happening.
Fact that you are totally fine with interfering and having them continuing their war for another 10 years as long as it leads Assad being overthrown proves this.
Which goes back to a conclusion I came to like 10 years ago: any country that wants a future for it and it's people should kick out and outlaw foreign NGO's, especially ones with any relation to Soros, State Department and the likes. Investing in Intelligence Services to make sure they don't get back in is also preferable.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11632
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Assad addresses people of Syria, declares the end of the Syrian civil war

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:03 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
western regimes' shortsightedness.


The west doesn't have regimes, Russia has a regime. A regime is what a governmental body is called in an autocratic government style, like the one in Russia or Syria. We already went over this, but apparently it wasn't clear the last time, since you are using it again. Anyhow, I don't mind telling you again.

Hmmm, perhaps the term "Vassals" fits better. Albeit with the current administration in the White House in D.C. screwing you guys left right and center is starting to plant the seeds of some resemblance of sovreignty in your politicians in some tiny ammount. Proves my point, btw.
As far as regimes go, also fit the definition. Same system as Russia, democracy, but changing one for another doesn't lead to any major change in the policies. Keeps people like you happy with the illusion though.


Russia isn't a democracy, it is an autocracy/dictatorship. So don't put misleading terms here. The same with Vassal states, very nice frame, but not rooted in reality.

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with Iran supporting Assad since the western regimes are doing all they can to screw them further. Just like I see nothing wrong with Iran screwing with western interests in the area and Iraq in particular.


So again a geopolitical statement, has nothing to do with the citizens to further and better their lives. Just self-interest of a Russian.


Has absolutely everything to do with that. No war = increasing living standards, despite all attempts by western regimes/vassals to stop this from happening.
Fact that you are totally fine with interfering and having them continuing their war for another 10 years as long as it leads Assad being overthrown proves this.


If no war was a goal, Russia should have left Syria alone. At the moment Russia decided to assist the Assad regime, the war was almost over, the Assad regime only had a small piece of land left. So the goal is geopolitics, not for the Syrians. And now we see Syrians uprising yet again and you say: crush them. Well quite clear evidence that you do not care about Syrians, only about geopolitics.

tu204 wrote:
Which goes back to a conclusion I came to like 10 years ago: any country that wants a future for it and it's people should kick out and outlaw foreign NGO's, especially ones with any relation to Soros, State Department and the likes. Investing in Intelligence Services to make sure they don't get back in is also preferable.


Ah right, in other words, make your country unaccountable and a totalitarian state. Well you live in the right country: Russia. Luckily I live in an open democracy. If NGO's have something to say about the Netherlands, fine, let's hear them, there might be some merit in their criticism so we can make our society even better. Why not? Free advice. Only people afraid of what these NGO's have to say, will outlaw them. So this statement says a lot about you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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