NoTime
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U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:16 am

Curious to see the reaction to this -

U.S. officials have told Sen. Bernie Sanders that Russia is attempting to help his presidential campaign as part of an effort to interfere with the Democratic contest, according to people familiar with the matter.

...

It is not clear what form that Russian assistance has taken. U.S. prosecutors found a Russian effort in 2016 to use social media to boost Sanders’s campaign against Hillary Clinton, part of a broader effort to hurt Clinton, sow dissension in the American electorate and ultimately help elect Donald Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/election ... r-BB10fJsL


I think it's fair to say that the Russians just want chaos, in whatever form they can create...
 
MaverickM11
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:20 am

NoTime wrote:
Curious to see the reaction to this -

U.S. officials have told Sen. Bernie Sanders that Russia is attempting to help his presidential campaign as part of an effort to interfere with the Democratic contest, according to people familiar with the matter.

...

It is not clear what form that Russian assistance has taken. U.S. prosecutors found a Russian effort in 2016 to use social media to boost Sanders’s campaign against Hillary Clinton, part of a broader effort to hurt Clinton, sow dissension in the American electorate and ultimately help elect Donald Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/election ... r-BB10fJsL


I think it's fair to say that the Russians just want chaos, in whatever form they can create...

Oh we believe the intel now? Good thing Dear Leader fired all of the messengers and replaced them with an airhead right wing troll. #thereIfixedit
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Francoflier
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:21 am

They also know that Sanders is too polarizing to rally enough of the democratic vote to win against Trump. They want Trump in the WH, although Sanders would be their favorite D president for sure.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:18 am

As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:50 am

Francoflier wrote:
They also know that Sanders is too polarizing to rally enough of the democratic vote to win against Trump. They want Trump in the WH, although Sanders would be their favorite D president for sure.



:checkmark: it is probably true, for the Putin regime an extreme American president is a good president, they see the world in a win-loose. And indeed Sanders would be unacceptable for a large number of Democrats, so they might not go out and vote.
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tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:57 am

tu204 wrote:
Looks to me like you guys are on a.good.old fashioned witch hunt.


Yup, in a world where witches are real. And anyone saying otherwise is, considering the overwhelming preponderance of evidence, simply lying.

Best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:02 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)


It's a strategy well documented from the Mueller report in 2016. The intel says it is ultimately to help Trump. So Democrats just believe the intel, as they did before.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
ltbewr
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:59 am

After over 2 centuries where the USA got involved with elections in other countries, including assassinations, supporting colonial powers, wars and military interventions, direct overthrows of legit elected officials, acts by the CIA, encouraging violence against 'communists' or poor, non-Whites candidates for office, we are getting some of own medicine and we don't like it.
I don't want any of this influence, especially money interfering with our elections, but for the last several decades, the rich and corporate interests within our country have spent billions to influence our elections and government and we can't seem to do anything about that.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:28 pm

These Russians should stay away from our election process. We are working very hard to damage it and don't need any external help. If they want proof watch CNN or at least cat the debates.
 
afcjets
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:41 pm

Francoflier wrote:
They also know that Sanders is too polarizing to rally enough of the democratic vote to win against Trump. They want Trump in the WH, although Sanders would be their favorite D president for sure.


Only the non-tribal NA candidate, who is desperately trying to appear more progressive than Bernie (and who I think will prevail in NV) or Bernie has a chance to beat Trump IMO, but still not a very good one. Bernie supporters will stay home or vote for Trump in protest if one of those two isn't the nominee, especially since it appears the DNC is already rigging it against him again. Since he is leading in the polls they are not an insignificant number.
 
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:49 pm

@afcjets: I am still waiting for proof of who the Native American candidate is.....

Russia just wants chaos so they can reinstall their choice. These people who say "So what if Russia is doing this because America does this all the time" are completely missing the point and have no idea what they are talking about. Yes, America has interfered in other elections. That does not mean those other nations are fine with it and, therefore, we should accept whoever Russia wants as our president. Many of those other countries where America interfered are still very angry about it. The majority of their citizens wanted one leader, but got a different one. And that nation payed the price.

Stop listening to what Russia wants. Stop believing what Russia tells you.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
@afcjets: I am still waiting for proof of who the Native American candidate is.....



Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a Massachusetts Democrat, on Monday released the findings of a DNA test that a report said "strongly support" her claim of Native American ancestry, a claim on which President Donald Trump has previously seized to mock and undermine her....
Warren's Senate reelection campaign has now created a website and released a five-minute video that features her family in Oklahoma, where she was born and raised, and Carlos Bustamante, the Stanford University professor who conducted the DNA test.

In the video, Bustamante says the facts suggest Warren "absolutely" had a Native American ancestor between six and 10 generations ago; the report describing the test's results says they "strongly support" that conclusion.


https://www.businessinsider.com/elizabe ... ry-2018-10
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seb146
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:19 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
@afcjets: I am still waiting for proof of who the Native American candidate is.....



Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a Massachusetts Democrat, on Monday released the findings of a DNA test that a report said "strongly support" her claim of Native American ancestry, a claim on which President Donald Trump has previously seized to mock and undermine her....
Warren's Senate reelection campaign has now created a website and released a five-minute video that features her family in Oklahoma, where she was born and raised, and Carlos Bustamante, the Stanford University professor who conducted the DNA test.

In the video, Bustamante says the facts suggest Warren "absolutely" had a Native American ancestor between six and 10 generations ago; the report describing the test's results says they "strongly support" that conclusion.


https://www.businessinsider.com/elizabe ... ry-2018-10


So, technically, Warren has Native American but all the name calling and bullying is what should be done. Let's also ignore that she did the manly thing and apologized for having a DNA test confirm she has a Native American ancestor

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/us/p ... rican.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1V91QY
https://apnews.com/fc83ec71fab84dbd8180c9aae0a1689c

Proving once again that Republicans hate minorities.

Now, let's get back to the original topic, please.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
wingman
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:03 pm

Russia “helping” Bernie is nothing less than a completely naked ploy to keep their poodle in the White House. Only the truly dim witted or brazenly gullible would believe Fox News that it’s because Bernie is a comrade. Russia is the world’s most successful criminal enterprise, the purest form of a Mafia style oligarchy we’ve ever seen. There hasn’t been anything communist about Russia since Stalin rolled up Das Kapital and smoked it. Nothing would please Vlad more than having a brother criminal oligarch running the United States for another four years. Watching Trumpettes suddenly claim to believe the Deep State and then read this obvious conclusion by the same agencies is like watching your dog snarl at the mirror, funny but sad at the same time.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:27 pm

This Russia stuff is smoke and mirrors for China. China is the big player here influencing our businesses like crazy and also our politics (see Bloomberg's stand on China). Turns out our media also likes this Russia obsession and just looks the other way to China's rise in the world and their covert activities in the homeland (see Charles Lieber). Their soft criticism to China over the coronavirus is a sample, they focused more on them building a hospital in a week than China's effort to stop dissent on the virus.

Russia is basically nothing, an economy smaller than Italy's. And as long as the US remains energy independent they will still be kept that way.

Bernie is not a Russian agent, neither was Tulsi nor Trump (as the Mueller report stated). Bernie does have communist sympathies (see his videos from the 80's), but that doesn't make him Russian agent.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Tugger
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:18 pm

I am amazed at people who seem to think the Russian interference is trying to elect someone. The Russian's are just playing the only weak cards they have and that is fear and disruption. They are trying to break things not "fix" things.

They may not have the money of other nations but they are a nation and control a lot of money and most importantly have plenty people that believe in their home and country. Patriots, the worst and most dangerous kinds of fools and people. And those people are very much able to use the electronic and online channels to play their cards. We see it here on A.net with the several trolls who post with obvious disruption-only intent. Don't need to make an effective argument, just repeat stupid sh!t and make people burn time and effort responding, meanwhile that is their only job and so they keep responding.

It's not hard, that's why they do it. (But it does take some skill and dedication as any hacker-type work does).

That so many MAGA's could only think of one thing, (like Russia actually tampered and "elected" Trump, that is stupid) and were utterly blinded to the fact that Russian actions interfered with the election is pathetic. Now there are a bunch of Dems who think the same thing is being said but again, it is interference, it is sowing confusion etc, that others (including Russians) are doing. Just stop and think and read and f'ing inform yourself and understand what is said and done, what the politician's you support actually supports and wants to do (and actually can do).

Stop being stupid, stop being cows, stop being herded. Think and use your brain.

Tugg
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stl07
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:59 pm

anrec80 wrote:
So now Sanders is a Putin agent? When will these Dems at last focus on their party and their country, and stop this McCarthyism? This is not even interesting anymore.

The US government is saying this, not the Dems. This is the last thing the Dems would want to say lol.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:15 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)


I don’t believe any of the Intel types. They have a horrible record of incompetence, witness complete to anticipate the fall of communism.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:36 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)


I don’t believe any of the Intel types. They have a horrible record of incompetence, witness complete to anticipate the fall of communism.




So who should we believe, this man who trump just (putin) to a sensitive intelligence post with absolutely not a whit of experience. Come on!!! What war or battle was ever won without intelligence of some kind helping? Custer had none and we see how that turned out. Even a man walking point is an Intelligence operative. Try studying history.
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Aaron747
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:38 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)


I don’t believe any of the Intel types. They have a horrible record of incompetence, witness complete to anticipate the fall of communism.


Are you saying we no longer require HUMINT, SIGINT, and ‘black’ operations..? Is that a conservative position now?
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Tugger
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:59 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)


I don’t believe any of the Intel types. They have a horrible record of incompetence, witness complete to anticipate the fall of communism.

Yeah, that's the thing to do. Trust no one, break up the union, end the USA. That is what you are saying. Seriously.

"Unless I personally trust someone, know them, I won't and can't trust what they say or do."

So who do you trust? Why?

Tugg
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wingman
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:17 pm

Tugger wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
As already said, it'll be interesting to see if Republicans do a 180 and all of the sudden believe the Intel community

But it'll also be interesting to see if Democrats do a 180 and say that Russia is just trying to cause chaos when before, it was obviously because Trump was so in love with Putin and Russia

(That being said, I know that 2 situations can be different so the camps listed above aren't necessarily hypocrites, but it'll be interesting to see.)


I don’t believe any of the Intel types. They have a horrible record of incompetence, witness complete to anticipate the fall of communism.

Yeah, that's the thing to do. Trust no one, break up the union, end the USA. That is what you are saying. Seriously.

"Unless I personally trust someone, know them, I won't and can't trust what they say or do."

So who do you trust? Why?

Tugg


When GF loads up to fly supplies to the troops he doesn't give a crap what the intel guys say. They tell him "the war's that way!", but he programs whatever coordinates turn up in the Tarot cards and off he goes. It's probably one reason these GOP wars never end, GF is landing fresh ammunition in Las Vegas while the 101st is locked down in Kandahar wondering what happened to their intel reports.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:20 pm

Guys, Russia did this before. They'll support opposing sides to brew chaos. Ignore them. And never take internet trolls as bringers of truth. Just like in 2016 if they're not actual Russian trolls they're still Americans who fell prey to the disinformation and are repeating it as truth.

I dislike Trump and I find his supporter's beliefs to be damaging to our country but at the same time most of us want to achieve the end goal of a stronger US. Find unity in the broad goals.
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casinterest
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:39 pm

BravoOne wrote:


At which part?


Russia interfered in the 2016 election with the aim of helping Trump get elected and damaging then-Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton's campaign, the intelligence community concluded, writing in its post-election assessment that "Putin and the Russian government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump." And while it is not inconceivable that Russia is once again looking to boost Trump's candidacy, three national security officials said the US intelligence community does not yet have the evidence to make that assessment.
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Flaps
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:17 pm

Who cares??? Countries interfere in each others elections all the time. Its how the game is played. Nothing newsworthy here.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:59 pm

Flaps wrote:
Who cares??? Countries interfere in each others elections all the time. Its how the game is played. Nothing newsworthy here.

It's problematic, but I view it at 90% an American education problem. Crappy Russian memes would not be very effective if our populace employed more critical thinking.

Glad to see the Democrat candidates moving forward from it instead of wallowing in it like a bunch of losers like they did in the aftermath of 2016... We want leadership! Let's nominate a good candidate and run a good campaign and WIN despite interference
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:46 am

Flaps wrote:
Who cares??? Countries interfere in each others elections all the time. Its how the game is played. Nothing newsworthy here.


Is anyone actually enjoying Trumps presidency out there? Anyone? I'm sure even Russia has had some buyer's remorse.

...ok yeah the people in the U.S. That were convinced by Russian Trolls that it's in our best interest to shoot ourselves in the foot think this is wonderful. I'll give you that.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:30 am

Looks like Russians turned into equal opportunity meddlers. Why meddle only one side, when American social media platforms are so cheap.

Or like Goldman Sachs, why hedge only on one side, when one can bet on both sides.
 
anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:40 am

Jouhou wrote:
...ok yeah the people in the U.S. That were convinced by Russian Trolls that it's in our best interest to shoot ourselves in the foot think this is wonderful. I'll give you that.


Russia, just as any other US competitor - be it China, North Korea, Venezuela, even European businesses, is interested in today’s struggle among US elite groups. While this struggle is going on (with blaming Russia or without) - US can’t efficiently run their foreign policy, compete, maintain ties with allies, and thus create a lot of opportunities for other players to step in and win.

Hence for the Dems it would have been the right thing to do is not blaming Russia in Trump’s victory, but work on their own party, rejuvenate it, and find a few candidates around 60 years of age. So that the Democratic primaries aren’t labeled “Alzheimers battle”.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:17 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
...ok yeah the people in the U.S. That were convinced by Russian Trolls that it's in our best interest to shoot ourselves in the foot think this is wonderful. I'll give you that.


Russia, just as any other US competitor - be it China, North Korea, Venezuela, even European businesses, is interested in today’s struggle among US elite groups. While this struggle is going on (with blaming Russia or without) - US can’t efficiently run their foreign policy, compete, maintain ties with allies, and thus create a lot of opportunities for other players to step in and win.

Hence for the Dems it would have been the right thing to do is not blaming Russia in Trump’s victory, but work on their own party, rejuvenate it, and find a few candidates around 60 years of age. So that the Democratic primaries aren’t labeled “Alzheimers battle”.


I don't think you get it, it's not about blaming Russia it's about punishing Russia so they don't gain from this. Because that's how the Russian government works, they only understand cruelty. I'd be fine with Trump if he agreed to punish Russia. But he didn't. Now Russia thinks it's OK and beneficial, like a spoiled child. Russia is a spoiled brat allowed to run amok on the world stage.
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tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:36 am

Flaps wrote:
Who cares??? Countries interfere in each others elections all the time. Its how the game is played. Nothing newsworthy here.


Administration and Parliament are usually not complicit in the effort though....

best regards
Thomas
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anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:23 am

Jouhou wrote:
I don't think you get it, it's not about blaming Russia it's about punishing Russia so they don't gain from this. Because that's how the Russian government works, they only understand cruelty.


I am looking at actual response to what they call “meddling”. Mueller investigation hasn’t found any proof to anything. Nobody quantified the result of this “meddling”. Nobody bothered to analyze and close gaps in legislature that would allow for foreign meddling. On the contrary - when Russians encountered foreign sponsored meddling in 2012, they enacted a whole bunch of reforms and passed foreign agent legislature, instead of running around and screaming.

Hence my take at this - it’s all for Dems to state that “look - it’s all Russians and not us who are losers and can’t find any leaders other than these 80 year old dinosaurs”. That doesn’t serve Democratic Party interests, nor does it any good for America. Democratic voters should demand some reforms from their party, and new generation of leaders instead of this blah-blah.

Jouhou wrote:
I'd be fine with Trump if he agreed to punish Russia. But he didn't. Now Russia thinks it's OK and beneficial, like a spoiled child. Russia is a spoiled brat allowed to run amok on the world stage.


And how can you punish them? What’s left? Keep in mind there are like 80 rounds of sanctions already, and they haven’t changed anything. Pretty much anything that could have been sanctioned in USA-Russia trade is sanctioned by now. You are at the point where you are causing problems not to Russians, but to USA themselves.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:33 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I don't think you get it, it's not about blaming Russia it's about punishing Russia so they don't gain from this. Because that's how the Russian government works, they only understand cruelty.


I am looking at actual response to what they call “meddling”. Mueller investigation hasn’t found any proof to anything. Nobody quantified the result of this “meddling”. Nobody bothered to analyze and close gaps in legislature that would allow for foreign meddling. On the contrary - when Russians encountered foreign sponsored meddling in 2012, they enacted a whole bunch of reforms and passed foreign agent legislature, instead of running around and screaming.

Hence my take at this - it’s all for Dems to state that “look - it’s all Russians and not us who are losers and can’t find any leaders other than these 80 year old dinosaurs”. That doesn’t serve Democratic Party interests, nor does it any good for America. Democratic voters should demand some reforms from their party, and new generation of leaders instead of this blah-blah.

Jouhou wrote:
I'd be fine with Trump if he agreed to punish Russia. But he didn't. Now Russia thinks it's OK and beneficial, like a spoiled child. Russia is a spoiled brat allowed to run amok on the world stage.


And how can you punish them? What’s left? Keep in mind there are like 80 rounds of sanctions already, and they haven’t changed anything. Pretty much anything that could have been sanctioned in USA-Russia trade is sanctioned by now. You are at the point where you are causing problems not to Russians, but to USA themselves.


Proof? I've been spotting Russian trolls since 2014 and even though most of us are smart enough to not buy it there's still a lot of gullible people out there. Meanwhile, Russia has its own problems to deal with but they waste resources on destabilizing a country that in the end could end up hurting Russia and others.

Punishment? Crack down on Russian money laundering. Not this half assed shit we do. The Russian people don't need punishment, but the mafia state that is the government does.
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Ozair
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:10 am

NoTime wrote:

I think it's fair to say that the Russians just want chaos, in whatever form they can create...

Agree but I can see a reason for the Russians to support Sanders who is regarded as the more isolationist main stream Democratic candidate. The withdrawal of American broader global engagement under a Sanders Presidency would suit the Russians perfectly…
 
anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:36 am

Jouhou wrote:
Proof? I've been spotting Russian trolls since 2014 and even though most of us are smart enough to not buy it there's still a lot of gullible people out there.


And? I have been considered a troll here for a while, even though living in New York (well, Stamford CT now). And what's the real influence on results of these "trolls"? 0.01%? I don't think Russian state will spend any resources on such activities. And even if some countries do - well, their influence is meaningless statistical noise, and you will waste a lot more resources and create yourself more problems than if you just leave this matter alone.

Jouhou wrote:
Meanwhile, Russia has its own problems to deal with but they waste resources on destabilizing a country that in the end could end up hurting Russia and others.

Which country are you talking about here? Syria? Ukraine? In both of those cases, Russian politics is very resource-savvy. Ukraine is hung off EU financially, and continues to cause political problems in the USA. Today's Ukrainian regime is solely a Democratic party creation, and if this regime (with all its corruption scandals) plays the key role in shooting Dems down and Trump's victory, I will be laughing very hard for a very long time. In Syria, all they have is one base with a few dozens planes on it really, not much more.

Jouhou wrote:
Punishment? Crack down on Russian money laundering. Not this half assed shit we do. The Russian people don't need punishment, but the mafia state that is the government does.


Putin has been trying to crack money laundering and have Russian business to keep their assets in Russia since like his first term, early 2000s. And he didn't have much success until the sanctions, after which the interest of Russian businesses to keep their assets in Western jurisdictions went down. Any further steps in this direction will provide him more help than harm. I do see that what you do looks half-assed, but there is simply not much more left that would not hurt American interests. And there is no point in imposing sanctions that hurt American interests and do not hurt anyone else's - agree?
 
anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:47 am

Ozair wrote:
Agree but I can see a reason for the Russians to support Sanders who is regarded as the more isolationist main stream Democratic candidate. The withdrawal of American broader global engagement under a Sanders Presidency would suit the Russians perfectly…


I'd say the opposite is true. More isolationist approaches of Trump and Sanders (and fractions of Republican and Democratic parties that are behind them) are in the interests of the USA, since global engagement is simply becoming unaffordable - 800 billion defense budget and 1 trillion deficits do not help anything here. The interests of competitors (Russia, China, Iran) are the opposite - they want you to sit in as many places as possible, waste resources (people, money) and yet not be able to achieve anything. And they became good at it.

Hence if I were Putin, I would look closest at Biden - that dude is still mentally living in 1990s and doesn't realize that approaches of 90s either no longer work or at best give limited results at huge costs. His mentality is known to them all perhaps the best.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:57 am

Isolationism was what the world did before ww2. Globalism happened in the aftermath to prevent that from happening again.

Also Russian trolls don't have to be in Russia. They're too cheap, they outsource to eastern europe.
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anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:17 am

Jouhou wrote:
Also Russian trolls don't have to be in Russia. They're too cheap, they outsource to eastern europe.


OK... In order for a country to be an outsourcing destination, this country must be substantially poorer than the source countries. As it's known lately, the poorest countries in Eastern Europe are also the most democratic and the most pro-Western ones - Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova. So should we now sanction those so that they don't accept such "orders"? Something like "hit your own so that others are afraid"?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:24 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Also Russian trolls don't have to be in Russia. They're too cheap, they outsource to eastern europe.


OK... In order for a country to be an outsourcing destination, this country must be substantially poorer than the source countries. As it's known lately, the poorest countries in Eastern Europe are also the most democratic and the most pro-Western ones - Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova. So should we now sanction those so that they don't accept such "orders"? Something like "hit your own so that others are afraid"?


I was more pointing towards Romania and bulgaria, but whatevs.
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anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:29 am

Jouhou wrote:
I was more pointing towards Romania and bulgaria, but whatevs.


A similar story to Ukraine and Georgia, except that younger part of their workforce is in Western Europe. But those also can be sanctioned.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:45 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I was more pointing towards Romania and bulgaria, but whatevs.


A similar story to Ukraine and Georgia, except that younger part of their workforce is in Western Europe. But those also can be sanctioned.


Does Romania even have an economy to sanction?

Plus, like I said, targeting the money moved around the world by Putin, the Russian mafia, and all the cronies would be the best response. This is the same money that funds these operations too.
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tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:57 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I don't think you get it, it's not about blaming Russia it's about punishing Russia so they don't gain from this. Because that's how the Russian government works, they only understand cruelty.


I am looking at actual response to what they call “meddling”. Mueller investigation hasn’t found any proof to anything. .


actually he found so much evidence for Meddling that he indicted a shit-ton of Russians and felt prudent to explain why no one from the Trump team was indicted given their participation in the conspiracy: He wasn´t sure he could proof to the satisfaction of a Jury that the Trump team knew they where committing crimes when they did, as those require mens rea to be punishable.
Claiming he didn´t find anything either means you didn´t read it or lie about its content.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
tu204
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:38 am

Jouhou wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I was more pointing towards Romania and bulgaria, but whatevs.


A similar story to Ukraine and Georgia, except that younger part of their workforce is in Western Europe. But those also can be sanctioned.


Does Romania even have an economy to sanction?

Plus, like I said, targeting the money moved around the world by Putin, the Russian mafia, and all the cronies would be the best response. This is the same money that funds these operations too.


As anrec posted somewhere above, that is exactly what the Russian government has been trying to do the last 5-10 years (by declaring tax amnesties for money brought back in from offshores, going after companies and individuals that use offshores, really upping the oversight on money transfers across the border), so that would be a pretty good option...for Russia, don't see how it would hurt Russia though, but whatever floats your boat.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:59 am

tu204 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

A similar story to Ukraine and Georgia, except that younger part of their workforce is in Western Europe. But those also can be sanctioned.


Does Romania even have an economy to sanction?

Plus, like I said, targeting the money moved around the world by Putin, the Russian mafia, and all the cronies would be the best response. This is the same money that funds these operations too.


As anrec posted somewhere above, that is exactly what the Russian government has been trying to do the last 5-10 years (by declaring tax amnesties for money brought back in from offshores, going after companies and individuals that use offshores, really upping the oversight on money transfers across the border), so that would be a pretty good option...for Russia, don't see how it would hurt Russia though, but whatever floats your boat.


She isn't talking about legal money Russians are saving from the Russian government. She talks about the billions Putin and the russian Mafia, which is the same as the russian government, have hustled away.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
tu204
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:33 am

tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Does Romania even have an economy to sanction?

Plus, like I said, targeting the money moved around the world by Putin, the Russian mafia, and all the cronies would be the best response. This is the same money that funds these operations too.


As anrec posted somewhere above, that is exactly what the Russian government has been trying to do the last 5-10 years (by declaring tax amnesties for money brought back in from offshores, going after companies and individuals that use offshores, really upping the oversight on money transfers across the border), so that would be a pretty good option...for Russia, don't see how it would hurt Russia though, but whatever floats your boat.


She isn't talking about legal money Russians are saving from the Russian government. She talks about the billions Putin and the russian Mafia, which is the same as the russian government, have hustled away.

Best regards
Thomas


The fact that this money is being sent through crooked offshore schemes makes it illegal just by that fact (tax evasion).

And theres not much difference in who is hustling money away, mafia or some oligarchs (or both in one), the idea is to get this money back under Russian jurisdiction. For multiple and obvious reasons. So sanctions against individual Russians are a great way to accomplish this. It is one thing when you are promised an amnesty on your dirty money, and its a whole different scenario when you (or your buddy) have some property or bank account arrested somewhere in the UK. Makes you think twice about where's a safe place to stash your cash, and where isn't.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
anrec80
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:42 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
actually he found so much evidence for Meddling that he indicted a shit-ton of Russians and felt prudent to explain why no one from the Trump team was indicted given their participation in the conspiracy


He says he found evidence. But why no charges then, no law violations, if there is so much evidence? Is it because it’s all meaningless blah-blah? This all is played by Democratic leadership to trick firstly their own supporters, so that they can, despite having one foot in the grave, keep control of the party regardless of 2016 disaster, not look for any new leadership and not reform anything. And this is damaging not only to the Party, but to the whole nation, and their leadership (Clintons, Biden, Kerry, Sanders and the likes) need to be kept accountable for that.

So if you or any other Dem supporter want to buy this “Russian meddling” garbage - please, by all means. But you are hurting your own country and your own political institutions by looking the wrong way. That’s all.
 
alfa164
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:12 pm

anrec80 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
actually he found so much evidence for Meddling that he indicted a shit-ton of Russians and felt prudent to explain why no one from the Trump team was indicted given their participation in the conspiracy /quote]
He says he found evidence. But why no charges then, no law violations, if there is so much evidence?.


We realize English is not your first language... but "indicted" means "charges" - yes, "law violations" - and Russia, of course, has refused to turn over the indicted perpetrators for trial. There is plenty of evidence, and only the most naive (or deceitful) deny that,
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:59 pm

anrec80 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
actually he found so much evidence for Meddling that he indicted a shit-ton of Russians and felt prudent to explain why no one from the Trump team was indicted given their participation in the conspiracy


He says he found evidence. But why no charges then, no law violations, if there is so much evidence? Is it because it’s all meaningless blah-blah? .


"Mens rea" look it up. Or watch "Legally Blonde".
Or, totally novel idea, I know, read the Mueller report.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
olle
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Re: U.S. Officials - Russia is trying to help Bernie Sanders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:30 pm

Russia and the Putin government want a disfunctional government.

They adore Trump, Brexit and are pro oil....


Pro oil means that russia can continue be the gasoline station of Europe a while more and do not need to integrate its business with the rest of Europe.

Integration with Europe means no agression again ukraine, baltics oor georgia. Bad in the view of putin.

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