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NIKV69
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You quoted my post but in now way addressed what I said or, more importantly, what I did not say. No reference to Obama’s transition, none to the SCOTUS, none to either president refusing to leave.


He used it to try to peddle some fantasy about Trump refusing to leave if he loses the election or 4 years later when termed out. Any level headed thinking person knows this is complete hogwash.
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KFTG
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:56 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Any level headed thinking person knows this is complete hogwash.

Trump is not a level-headed, "thinking person".
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 07, 2020 5:00 pm

Remind me again about how Trump is draining the swamp?


https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-c ... ion-2020-5

Brad Parscale, President Trump's 2020 campaign manager, has already gotten nearly $40 million paid to his companies through various reelection committees, according to a HuffPost analysis of FEC filings.

The filings show that between January 2017 and the end of March, Parscale's companies brought in $38.9 million from those committees.

He's been able to buy a Ferarri, a Range Rover, a $400,000 boat, two million dollar condos and a $2.4 million waterfront house in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., according to HuffPost.
\
This thing has been a large criminal enterprise. It's like that scene in the 'Goodfellas' after the heist," Republican consultant Stuart Stevens told HuffPost. "Dishing out furs to mob bosses' girlfriends and wives."

Elsewhere, the girlfriend and wife of Trump's adult sons — Kimberly Guilfoyle and Lara Trump — have each been getting $15,000 per month through one of Parscale's companies, according to another HuffPost report citing two GOP sources identified as informal White House advisers.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 07, 2020 5:48 pm

How apropos of casinterest, above.

“This whole thing is just like a crumbling empire right before your eyes. Everybody is trying to take everything they can get on the way out and they’re trying to prop him up so they all can make money. ”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/james-ca ... mg00000006
 
BravoOne
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 07, 2020 8:49 pm

What campaign manager is making 40 million?? The most corrupt politicians I can remember were the likes of JFK, LBJ, The Clintons, and to a lessor degree BO. No one party has a exclsuive on this issue and Joe Biden and his Democratic ilk create a huge gag reflex.

While your talking corrupt, how about the current state of affairs with the FBI are revolting. Since when does the FBI and Justice Dept have the right to remove someone for political reasons, from either party? I guess you can wist the facts to suit your political beliefs.

Come on folks, we can, and do deserve better than this.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 07, 2020 9:30 pm

apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Nothing new will happen other than the kooks on the internet will posting the same old crap. Life goes on regardless.



So you are ok with a campaign manager making 40 million dollars when the going rate is 1/20th of that ?


Seems like Trump supporters like a corrupt government to me.

No disrespect but a campaign manager is usually not a government official, but a private sector person hired to manage an election to public office. And no Trump has not drained the swamp. The only guy running for president who was going to do that is out and has endorsed Biden, who is an even bigger swamp creature than Trump.

But your post raises an interesting question. Why does it take spending millions of dollars to hire one person just to get elected to office. I would be curious just how much money is spent on elections by the two major parties. I am guessing the number would be staggering. And very wasteful because that money could give everyone a pay raise, feed everyone, pay their rent. Instead it all is spent to keep people in power. To show you how bad it is in the US there was a special election for a Georgia House seat not too long ago. Lots of money poured into that race. I believe the total spent on just this one house race, was more than the Labour and Conservatives parties spent total in the 2019 UK Election. And that race literally determined who the UK Prime Minister would be, and that position is one of the most powerful on the planet.

But yet it still persists because voters insist on continuing to send back to Washington over and over the same people who keep these policies in place. Imagine what would happen if not one single person in Congress was reelected? Maybe we should think about it.


Absolutely - and a step further - imagine no more wild campaign spending. There should be a public pool of limited campaign funds - candidates can use more the further they advance. No ‘war chests’, no massive super PAC-fueled advances to the finish line via TV blitzes...competition is won only on the quality of ideas and character. I bet that would improve who and what we see in the running for the executive.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 07, 2020 10:19 pm

BravoOne wrote:
What campaign manager is making 40 million?? The most corrupt politicians I can remember were the likes of JFK, LBJ, The Clintons, and to a lessor degree BO. No one party has a exclsuive on this issue and Joe Biden and his Democratic ilk create a huge gag reflex.

While your talking corrupt, how about the current state of affairs with the FBI are revolting. Since when does the FBI and Justice Dept have the right to remove someone for political reasons, from either party? I guess you can wist the facts to suit your political beliefs.

Come on folks, we can, and do deserve better than this.



Trump's is. Read back in the thread.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 07, 2020 10:20 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:


So you are ok with a campaign manager making 40 million dollars when the going rate is 1/20th of that ?


Seems like Trump supporters like a corrupt government to me.

No disrespect but a campaign manager is usually not a government official, but a private sector person hired to manage an election to public office. And no Trump has not drained the swamp. The only guy running for president who was going to do that is out and has endorsed Biden, who is an even bigger swamp creature than Trump.

But your post raises an interesting question. Why does it take spending millions of dollars to hire one person just to get elected to office. I would be curious just how much money is spent on elections by the two major parties. I am guessing the number would be staggering. And very wasteful because that money could give everyone a pay raise, feed everyone, pay their rent. Instead it all is spent to keep people in power. To show you how bad it is in the US there was a special election for a Georgia House seat not too long ago. Lots of money poured into that race. I believe the total spent on just this one house race, was more than the Labour and Conservatives parties spent total in the 2019 UK Election. And that race literally determined who the UK Prime Minister would be, and that position is one of the most powerful on the planet.

Citizens United opened up some big swamp filling items that are allowing for a gross misuse of funds.
But yet it still persists because voters insist on continuing to send back to Washington over and over the same people who keep these policies in place. Imagine what would happen if not one single person in Congress was reelected? Maybe we should think about it.


Absolutely - and a step further - imagine no more wild campaign spending. There should be a public pool of limited campaign funds - candidates can use more the further they advance. No ‘war chests’, no massive super PAC-fueled advances to the finish line via TV blitzes...competition is won only on the quality of ideas and character. I bet that would improve who and what we see in the running for the executive.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Fri May 08, 2020 2:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:


So you are ok with a campaign manager making 40 million dollars when the going rate is 1/20th of that ?


Seems like Trump supporters like a corrupt government to me.

No disrespect but a campaign manager is usually not a government official, but a private sector person hired to manage an election to public office. And no Trump has not drained the swamp. The only guy running for president who was going to do that is out and has endorsed Biden, who is an even bigger swamp creature than Trump.

But your post raises an interesting question. Why does it take spending millions of dollars to hire one person just to get elected to office. I would be curious just how much money is spent on elections by the two major parties. I am guessing the number would be staggering. And very wasteful because that money could give everyone a pay raise, feed everyone, pay their rent. Instead it all is spent to keep people in power. To show you how bad it is in the US there was a special election for a Georgia House seat not too long ago. Lots of money poured into that race. I believe the total spent on just this one house race, was more than the Labour and Conservatives parties spent total in the 2019 UK Election. And that race literally determined who the UK Prime Minister would be, and that position is one of the most powerful on the planet.

But yet it still persists because voters insist on continuing to send back to Washington over and over the same people who keep these policies in place. Imagine what would happen if not one single person in Congress was reelected? Maybe we should think about it.


Absolutely - and a step further - imagine no more wild campaign spending. There should be a public pool of limited campaign funds - candidates can use more the further they advance. No ‘war chests’, no massive super PAC-fueled advances to the finish line via TV blitzes...competition is won only on the quality of ideas and character. I bet that would improve who and what we see in the running for the executive.


Funny, people keep imagining MONEY buys elections, not ideas or the message. Clinton outspent Trump, how’d that money work? Loads of lesser elections show the same thing. Lots of things win elections, money way down the list after ideas, ability to connect with the voters, charisma, understanding voters. Trump won against very long odds and predicted he would despite idiot statements, a trainload of baggage, chaotic campaigning and being outspent.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 8:27 pm

Sounds like Gallo Vineyards:)

Back to politics. Although I'm sure I come across as a firm Trump supporter, I can be dissuaded to change but when the best you have is an old creep like Biden I have to wonder what happened? I know some would say he is only a place holder for the next President but that's not how it's supposed to work. If the guy can't stand the light of day, why would I give him my vote. The Democratic party has had almost four years to get this right and this is the best they can do?

Bloomberg for all his faults would have been a better coice but the extreme left wing of the party decided to crucify him over some perceived sexual issues, and they they look the other way when Biden is accused of some really egregious behavior years ago. Anyone looking at this will realize there is not only a double standard, but rather no standards at all when selecting the Democratic nominee.

You guys is going to lose and you will have no one to blame, but yourselves. I'm not the only person who feels this way. I have numerous Calif friends who are San Francisco moderates and are looking for a way to vote anyone but Trump. They are not going to vote for Biden, nor Harris based on everything they see so far.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 8:40 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Sounds like Gallo Vineyards:)

Back to politics. Although I'm sure I come across as a firm Trump supporter, I can be dissuaded to change but when the best you have is an old creep like Biden I have to wonder what happened? I know some would say he is only a place holder for the next President but that's not how it's supposed to work. If the guy can't stand the light of day, why would I give him my vote. The Democratic party has had almost four years to get this right and this is the best they can do?

Bloomberg for all his faults would have been a better coice but the extreme left wing of the party decided to crucify him over some perceived sexual issues, and they they look the other way when Biden is accused of some really egregious behavior years ago. Anyone looking at this will realize there is not only a double standard, but rather no standards at all when selecting the Democratic nominee.

You guys is going to lose and you will have no one to blame, but yourselves. I'm not the only person who feels this way. I have numerous Calif friends who are San Francisco moderates and are looking for a way to vote anyone but Trump. They are not going to vote for Biden, nor Harris based on everything they see so far.


Nah Gallo is out in the valley, central coast here.

As I said, both candidates suck - a repeat of 2016. Funny stuff though - I’m in a ‘purple’ CA county and some guys around here who went for 45 last time have told many their wives will leave them or worse if they vote for him again.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 8:42 pm

caliboy93 wrote:
So if Trump was to be re-elected in November, then what would be the outcomes in the world for the next 4 years?


4 more years of Twitter tantrums and general hilarity laughing at the anti Trump mob.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 9:12 pm

Trump will ramp up his stupidity, incoherent, xenophobia, corruption, sexism, racism and more as he has no need to worry about re-election again. The republicans in government will continue to support him. His regular citizen supporters will also continue their support, will be emboldened with their disgusting behavior all the while believing that they are better than the immigrants, blacks, insert random group that is not white, while ignoring that Trump is taking them for a wild ride.

Most importnatly, he will liley get a few more Suprem Court picks and set life back a generation for a majority of this country.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 9:19 pm

Mav your posts insult just about everyone who has voted for Trump in the past. I can assure you I am not racist, nor xenophobic. If you think you're going to somehow shame me int voting for creepy Biden, you are wrong. Got to give me a real reason. I suspect you're pretty young. That's okay, as you will grow out of it:)
 
BravoOne
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 9:22 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Sounds like Gallo Vineyards:)

Back to politics. Although I'm sure I come across as a firm Trump supporter, I can be dissuaded to change but when the best you have is an old creep like Biden I have to wonder what happened? I know some would say he is only a place holder for the next President but that's not how it's supposed to work. If the guy can't stand the light of day, why would I give him my vote. The Democratic party has had almost four years to get this right and this is the best they can do?

Bloomberg for all his faults would have been a better coice but the extreme left wing of the party decided to crucify him over some perceived sexual issues, and they they look the other way when Biden is accused of some really egregious behavior years ago. Anyone looking at this will realize there is not only a double standard, but rather no standards at all when selecting the Democratic nominee.

You guys is going to lose and you will have no one to blame, but yourselves. I'm not the only person who feels this way. I have numerous Calif friends who are San Francisco moderates and are looking for a way to vote anyone but Trump. They are not going to vote for Biden, nor Harris based on everything they see so far.


Nah Gallo is out in the valley, central coast here.

As I said, both candidates suck - a repeat of 2016. Funny stuff though - I’m in a ‘purple’ CA county and some guys around here who went for 45 last time have told many their wives will leave them or worse if they vote for him again.


Let them leave.. If they are that controlling the freedom alone will make it worthwhile:)
 
BravoOne
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 09, 2020 10:35 pm

Nor did his campaign manager. You don't get much of a yacht for 40M these days. I suspect most of your knowledge comes from Mad Comics or other fake news. Give it up. i know you don't like trump but stop with the BS.

Guess what, "honorable' people can lose their jobs any day of the week.
 
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par13del
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sun May 10, 2020 12:26 pm

So far the world has survived the third world war which we were told would start when Trump got elected, the great depression his election would bring, the whole sale devastation of the world economy. We have survived the constant USA media scrutiny of everything Trump, when and where he spits, farts, wind blows his hair, the good thing is that rather than just turning off Fox, you now turn off all of them. The good job that they have done focusing the world on Trumps handling of the virus situation has me scratching my head. Trump kicked off the virus in China, Trump allowed airlines to continue to fly out of China, Trump allowed US residents to continue to fly to and from China, Trump discriminated against Europe when there was no need to, Trump did not shut down America fast enough, Trump did not tell the governor of New York to close the state border, etc etc.

I sit in my home with the borders of my country shut due to a virus that kicked off in China worrying about how the world would look if Trump get's re-elected while all nations arrange flights to China to get virus testing kits and other medical supplies......
 
apodino
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 4:56 am

BravoOne wrote:
Sounds like Gallo Vineyards:)

Back to politics. Although I'm sure I come across as a firm Trump supporter, I can be dissuaded to change but when the best you have is an old creep like Biden I have to wonder what happened? I know some would say he is only a place holder for the next President but that's not how it's supposed to work. If the guy can't stand the light of day, why would I give him my vote. The Democratic party has had almost four years to get this right and this is the best they can do?


Many progressives are asking the same questions you raise here, and are not going to vote for Biden. And one person that the left is really mad at over this is Elizabeth Warren. She tried to stay in the race when she didn't have a path which caused the progressive vote to split. She then refused to endorse Bernie Sanders, and is now basically a Biden sell out. Bernie is also working to try to ensure the Warren is not the VP choice. Also there were other choices on the Ballot. Buttigieg actually had more delegates going into Super Tuesday than Biden did if I remember. But yet Buttigieg dropped out? I admit that on Policy, Pete would have been just like Biden. But Pete would have had much less of the baggage.

BravoOne wrote:
Bloomberg for all his faults would have been a better coice but the extreme left wing of the party decided to crucify him over some perceived sexual issues, and they they look the other way when Biden is accused of some really egregious behavior years ago. Anyone looking at this will realize there is not only a double standard, but rather no standards at all when selecting the Democratic nominee.

Again, this was Elizabeth Warren who brought this up in a debate. It's no secret that Corporatists and the Elitists hold all the real power in the Democratic party and anyone with half a brain can see that. However, Bloomberg was blatantly trying to buy the nomination. The last thing that the real powerbrokers want is to be blatantly out there, as they prefer to be incognito. Hence while its obvious that all the corporate interests consolidated around Biden, this was only because if Bloomberg got any momentum, Sanders would have actually become stronger. Warren just played her part.

BravoOne wrote:
You guys is going to lose and you will have no one to blame, but yourselves. I'm not the only person who feels this way. I have numerous Calif friends who are San Francisco moderates and are looking for a way to vote anyone but Trump. They are not going to vote for Biden, nor Harris based on everything they see so far.

The only alternative at the moment is Justin Amash who is the Libertarian Candidate. But Amash is the total opposite of what San Francisco would want in an elected leader. One thing I would encourage people in San Francisco to do is to vote for Democrat Shahid Buttar for Congress in the 12th district. (That is Pelosi's district) At the national level, you are right, they really have nowhere to go. There is a rumor that Jesse Ventura may run on the green party ticket. Maybe that's the way to go?
 
continental004
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 5:02 am

I would rather live under communism than another four years of Trump.

if he does win, I hope we Americans will have the balls to start a coup d’état to unseat him from power.
 
jodieellis
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 9:33 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
caliboy93 wrote:
So if Trump was to be re-elected in November, then what would be the outcomes in the world for the next 4 years?


4 more years of Twitter tantrums and general hilarity laughing at the anti Trump mob.

And likely, more personal attacks against each other e.g Trump VS Obama. Today, I read a tweet that mentions #Obamagate which is an attack thread made by Trump over the investigation of Flynn. Now the situation between Trump and Obama is just getting worst.
 
jodieellis
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 9:39 am

caliboy93 wrote:
So if Trump was to be re-elected in November, then what would be the outcomes in the world for the next 4 years?

Then I think it's best for me not to even go to the US for the next 4 years. According to most people, he lied and he cannot handle the coronavirus situation like most other countries worldwide. If he is a president, he should protect his citizens like NZ, Norway etc. But he fails and before he fails, he kept sending treats to other politics on Twitter and not handling the situation to my opinion.
 
Reddevil556
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 1:43 pm

continental004 wrote:
I would rather live under communism than another four years of Trump.

if he does win, I hope we Americans will have the balls to start a coup d’état to unseat him from power.


Why not just move to NK, China, or Vietnam? Honestly people place too much importance on the president. As an independent I roll my eyes at the doom and gloom both parties portray. Republicans and Democrats acting 13 year old girls when it comes to impending doom after a election. Nothing really changed when Obama got elected, nothing really changed when Trump got elected. But if you watch Fox News or read HuffPost, you would think Armageddon is just around the corner. Like it or not, two term presidents are generally better for the country. Conforming to a single party ideology is perfect example of being livestock.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 2:31 pm

Trump is unraveling and has no clue how to manage, or manage a crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/11/politics ... index.html

Given the cramped nature of the West Wing, which makes proper social distancing all but impossible, the fear is that more cases of Covid-19 will emerge.
This reality potentially raises national security concerns were both Trump and Pence to become infected. The White House outbreak also highlights questions about how carefully the White House has followed its own advice on social distancing and the use of face masks to prevent the spread of the virus. On Saturday, the President met at the White House with senior military officials. No one was wearing a mask in the photo opportunity — though Secret Service agents who were off camera did take the precaution.
The CDC recommends that citizens wear masks in public settings where it is hard to practice social distancing, though the advice is not mandatory.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 3:22 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Mav your posts insult just about everyone who has voted for Trump in the past. I can assure you I am not racist, nor xenophobic. If you think you're going to somehow shame me int voting for creepy Biden, you are wrong. Got to give me a real reason. I suspect you're pretty young. That's okay, as you will grow out of it:)


Then don't vote for Biden. Spoil your paper (is that possible in the US?) or don't vote as a display of how appalling a choice you have been given. Just dont' vote for Trump. I think it's a complete joke that Biden has ended up being the Democratic candidate. They have blown a massive opportunity, and surely there is a younger more elequant person who could have stood, but whatever he's the choice.

I think Mav's comments about Trump are spot on, maybe he went a bit overboard to accuse all Trumps supporters of being the same. They clearly were not. But, I can't get my ahead around after everything that has happened the last few years, you could still be a Trump supporter. Fine you're a Conservative / GOP supporter over the Democrats, I don't get it but accept you are..but how can anyone in anyway still justify the daily actions of Trump and vote for him?

During Brexit in the UK there was an amusing little phrase .. "all racists are Brexiteers but not all Brexiteers are racists". It applies to Trump too. You have to ask yourself why.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 3:33 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Funny, people keep imagining MONEY buys elections, not ideas or the message. Clinton outspent Trump, how’d that money work? Loads of lesser elections show the same thing. Lots of things win elections, money way down the list after ideas, ability to connect with the voters, charisma, understanding voters. Trump won against very long odds and predicted he would despite idiot statements, a trainload of baggage, chaotic campaigning and being outspent.

If you truly believe that all 62M people who voted for Trump did so because they bought his message/idea and didn't do so because they couldn't stomach Clinton or because they only vote for people with '(R)' next to their name, I have a forest in the Sahara I'd like to show you. In the South, the Poop Emoji may run as a Republican and it'll still beat a Democrat any day.

BravoOne wrote:
I have numerous Calif friends who are San Francisco moderates and are looking for a way to vote anyone but Trump. They are not going to vote for Biden, nor Harris based on everything they see so far.
Why don't I believe this? Probably because it sounds a lot like "A lot of people have told me" and "People come up to me all the time", which Trump also says. For every "moderate" voter that won't vote for Biden, there's probably another Obama-Trump voter ready to come back to the Democratic column. And given that even in CA, Democrats have tight grip, those moderates in the Bay Area are likely going the way of the dodo, especially against someone like Trump. After all is said and done, they'll hold their noses and vote for the ticket.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
apodino
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 11, 2020 7:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Funny, people keep imagining MONEY buys elections, not ideas or the message. Clinton outspent Trump, how’d that money work? Loads of lesser elections show the same thing. Lots of things win elections, money way down the list after ideas, ability to connect with the voters, charisma, understanding voters. Trump won against very long odds and predicted he would despite idiot statements, a trainload of baggage, chaotic campaigning and being outspent.

If you truly believe that all 62M people who voted for Trump did so because they bought his message/idea and didn't do so because they couldn't stomach Clinton or because they only vote for people with '(R)' next to their name, I have a forest in the Sahara I'd like to show you. In the South, the Poop Emoji may run as a Republican and it'll still beat a Democrat any day.

That actually happened in Alabama last year and the Poop Emoji named Roy Moore lost to Doug Jones a Democrat.

That being said, Trump's election is a bit more complicated than that. What led to Trump's election was the public's perception that Washington stopped working for the people and only worked for the powerful and they needed an outsider to go in and shake things up. Trump turned out not to be the right guy for this, but that is exactly why he got elected. The issue is Trump sold out to the elites and the neoliberal/corporatists in Washington and the people are still being screwed by Washington Policies. This is why Bernie appeals to so many people. The problem is, the Democratic Establishment saw the rise of Trump and so they consolidated behind Biden and literally told the people that Biden was the only guy to beat Trump. (Which I believe was a bold faced lie, but since Democratic voters trust the media, they did what they were told like good shepherds) Now we have Biden, and realistically there is no way that we wont have more income inequality, more poor people, more people without health care, and more working class people struggling after this election regardless of who wins.

einsteinboricua wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I have numerous Calif friends who are San Francisco moderates and are looking for a way to vote anyone but Trump. They are not going to vote for Biden, nor Harris based on everything they see so far.
Why don't I believe this? Probably because it sounds a lot like "A lot of people have told me" and "People come up to me all the time", which Trump also says. For every "moderate" voter that won't vote for Biden, there's probably another Obama-Trump voter ready to come back to the Democratic column. And given that even in CA, Democrats have tight grip, those moderates in the Bay Area are likely going the way of the dodo, especially against someone like Trump. After all is said and done, they'll hold their noses and vote for the ticket.

I actually think Moderates are the ones most likely to vote for Biden. There is so much money in the Bay Area that the democratic establishment that has a tight grip on power there is actually Socially Liberal and Fiscally Moderate. That is the Biden Voter. It's exactly the same situation playing out in New York. Andrew Cuomo governs with that same style. Even though the Democrats control everything in New York, the fiscally Moderate policies ultimately benefit those at the top and screw all the rest of us over.

So what I am trying to say is that in an era where we need more populist policies so that everyone benefits we don't get them and instead we get neoliberal policies that only benefit those at the top, with a few social issue policies thrown in just to keep progressive voters from jumping ship.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 1:54 am

Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 1:57 am

casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=mZix-PMnXRQ&feature=emb_logo

Any Trump fans want to explain ?


Maybe about the Birther Theory comes back to life. I just had an exchange over this today with a Moron.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
apodino
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 5:00 pm

casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=mZix-PMnXRQ&feature=emb_logo

Any Trump fans want to explain ?


What I think is going on here is the fact that evidence has come out in recent weeks that shows the FBI in the last days of the Obama administration set up Michael Flynn, which led to the whole lying to FBI charges. It is obvious to me right now that there seemed to me to be no legal reason for the FBI to look into Michael Flynn, and Flynn was put into a position where he lied to the FBI based on the investigation conducted. If this had been done under proper pretenses, Flynn would have never been put into this situation in the first place.

We haven't heard everything on this issue. I fully support the Flynn charges being dropped based on the evidence that is out there.

Regardless of what happens in this case though, nothing will change regardless of if Biden or Trump are elected. The wealthy will get wealthier, the working class will have no one fighting for them, and people will continue to get screwed over, and yet will still keep electing the same people over and over that screw them over.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 5:01 pm

apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=mZix-PMnXRQ&feature=emb_logo

Any Trump fans want to explain ?


What I think is going on here is the fact that evidence has come out in recent weeks that shows the FBI in the last days of the Obama administration set up Michael Flynn, which led to the whole lying to FBI charges. It is obvious to me right now that there seemed to me to be no legal reason for the FBI to look into Michael Flynn, and Flynn was put into a position where he lied to the FBI based on the investigation conducted. If this had been done under proper pretenses, Flynn would have never been put into this situation in the first place.

We haven't heard everything on this issue. I fully support the Flynn charges being dropped based on the evidence that is out there.

Regardless of what happens in this case though, nothing will change regardless of if Biden or Trump are elected. The wealthy will get wealthier, the working class will have no one fighting for them, and people will continue to get screwed over, and yet will still keep electing the same people over and over that screw them over.

Why did Flynn Lie about what he did for Trump?
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Tugger
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 5:16 pm

apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=mZix-PMnXRQ&feature=emb_logo

Any Trump fans want to explain ?


What I think is going on here is the fact that evidence has come out in recent weeks that shows the FBI in the last days of the Obama administration set up Michael Flynn, which led to the whole lying to FBI charges. It is obvious to me right now that there seemed to me to be no legal reason for the FBI to look into Michael Flynn, and Flynn was put into a position where he lied to the FBI based on the investigation conducted. If this had been done under proper pretenses, Flynn would have never been put into this situation in the first place.

We haven't heard everything on this issue. I fully support the Flynn charges being dropped based on the evidence that is out there.

Regardless of what happens in this case though, nothing will change regardless of if Biden or Trump are elected. The wealthy will get wealthier, the working class will have no one fighting for them, and people will continue to get screwed over, and yet will still keep electing the same people over and over that screw them over.

I would have to say that I do take issue with the implication that the FBI is the administration, any administration, and only acts on the administrations orders. The FBI is an independent agency is it not? I know the administration appoints the Director but that does not make the FBI the stoolie for the administration, does it?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
apodino
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 5:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=mZix-PMnXRQ&feature=emb_logo

Any Trump fans want to explain ?


What I think is going on here is the fact that evidence has come out in recent weeks that shows the FBI in the last days of the Obama administration set up Michael Flynn, which led to the whole lying to FBI charges. It is obvious to me right now that there seemed to me to be no legal reason for the FBI to look into Michael Flynn, and Flynn was put into a position where he lied to the FBI based on the investigation conducted. If this had been done under proper pretenses, Flynn would have never been put into this situation in the first place.

We haven't heard everything on this issue. I fully support the Flynn charges being dropped based on the evidence that is out there.

Regardless of what happens in this case though, nothing will change regardless of if Biden or Trump are elected. The wealthy will get wealthier, the working class will have no one fighting for them, and people will continue to get screwed over, and yet will still keep electing the same people over and over that screw them over.

I would have to say that I do take issue with the implication that the FBI is the administration, any administration, and only acts on the administrations orders. The FBI is an independent agency is it not? I know the administration appoints the Director but that does not make the FBI the stoolie for the administration, does it?

Tugg

The FBI is part of the Justice Department so it is ultimately accountable to the Attorney General who himself is accountable to the President.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Tue May 12, 2020 5:43 pm

The US does not, and never have had, an independent judiciary or police force.
Signature. You just read one.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 14, 2020 3:53 pm

So Trump is going full force on Obama-gate , even though he has not defined what it is.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 1254701060

Interesting that he is trying to distract from the Congressional Testimony of how he disregarded warnings about Covid-19.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
jodieellis
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Fri May 15, 2020 3:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
So Trump is going full force on Obama-gate , even though he has not defined what it is.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 1254701060

Interesting that he is trying to distract from the Congressional Testimony of how he disregarded warnings about Covid-19.

More disregarded warnings could just kill more people. Even I see not just Trump-Gate or Obama-gate, but Trudeau-Gate seems to be seen on Twitter as well in response to these 2 president wars.
 
kaitak
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 1:42 am

Another four years of Trump - another four years of asking "did he actually say that" and thinking that he can't sink any lower (and always manages to find a way), of the painful irony of seeing evangelicals hold up Trump as some kind of modern messiah ... it'll be more of the same.

But here's the thing: if I despised America, if I wanted to see America's reputation trodden into the ground, its reputation sullied, its values and qualities rendered meaningless, then which of the two candidates am I going to want to see in the White House? It's as simple as that. If I were a foreign power with the intelligence and technological muscle to try and make that happen, I would be doing everything in my power to make that a reality. It's worked so well for the past four years. Sure, there have been sanctions, but - playing the long, geopolitical gain, I would still want Trump as President, because no one can be relied upon to do a better job of stomping America's reputation and its standing into the ground as effectively as Trump.

You cannot expect a man with no personal values, morality or qualities to suddenly change and be that guardian of America's values and integrity, when he has no respect for them. Can people not see that he shows his level every day - the bully with the verbal skills of a ten year old. If I were America's enemy, he would be the man I'd like to see in charge. And I'd do everything I could to make that happen.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 12:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=mZix-PMnXRQ&feature=emb_logo

Any Trump fans want to explain ?


What I think is going on here is the fact that evidence has come out in recent weeks that shows the FBI in the last days of the Obama administration set up Michael Flynn, which led to the whole lying to FBI charges. It is obvious to me right now that there seemed to me to be no legal reason for the FBI to look into Michael Flynn, and Flynn was put into a position where he lied to the FBI based on the investigation conducted. If this had been done under proper pretenses, Flynn would have never been put into this situation in the first place.

We haven't heard everything on this issue. I fully support the Flynn charges being dropped based on the evidence that is out there.

Regardless of what happens in this case though, nothing will change regardless of if Biden or Trump are elected. The wealthy will get wealthier, the working class will have no one fighting for them, and people will continue to get screwed over, and yet will still keep electing the same people over and over that screw them over.

I would have to say that I do take issue with the implication that the FBI is the administration, any administration, and only acts on the administrations orders. The FBI is an independent agency is it not? I know the administration appoints the Director but that does not make the FBI the stoolie for the administration, does it?

Tugg


More importantly that wasn't the only crime Flynn committed. How did the deep state cabal arrange for him to forget registering as a foreign agent?

Unless of course Flynn is also part of that deep state and did it to bring down Trump.

Makes total sense. At least as much as setting Trump up, and then forgetting to give that dirt to Americans before the election does that is.

Best regards
Thomas
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 1:00 pm

kaitak wrote:
Another four years of Trump - another four years of asking "did he actually say that" and thinking that he can't sink any lower (and always manages to find a way), of the painful irony of seeing evangelicals hold up Trump as some kind of modern messiah ... it'll be more of the same.

But here's the thing: if I despised America, if I wanted to see America's reputation trodden into the ground, its reputation sullied, its values and qualities rendered meaningless, then which of the two candidates am I going to want to see in the White House? It's as simple as that. If I were a foreign power with the intelligence and technological muscle to try and make that happen, I would be doing everything in my power to make that a reality. It's worked so well for the past four years. Sure, there have been sanctions, but - playing the long, geopolitical gain, I would still want Trump as President, because no one can be relied upon to do a better job of stomping America's reputation and its standing into the ground as effectively as Trump.

You cannot expect a man with no personal values, morality or qualities to suddenly change and be that guardian of America's values and integrity, when he has no respect for them. Can people not see that he shows his level every day - the bully with the verbal skills of a ten year old. If I were America's enemy, he would be the man I'd like to see in charge. And I'd do everything I could to make that happen.


I am confused, can you confirm you thought highly of America before Trump? so you liked how America went into Vietnam? how it participated in the first Gulf war? then invading Afghanistan? Invading Iraq?

So your opinion of America was high, til Trump showed up is that it?

Or you always had your negative views of the reputation of America just that Trump is far worse than the previous bunch?

I thought the "world" did not like America to be the policemen of the world. Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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bgm
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 1:39 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.


What wars has Trump ended?
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AirWorthy99
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 1:45 pm

bgm wrote:
What wars has Trump ended?


Ending America's longest running war, that's quite an accomplishment most of you who hated America's wars would applaud.


US on track to pull troops out of Afghanistan: Pentagon


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/ ... 50268.html

Edit, also this one:

Trump Orders Withdrawal of U.S. Troops From Northern Syria


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/us/p ... urkey.html
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11904
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 1:59 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
Another four years of Trump - another four years of asking "did he actually say that" and thinking that he can't sink any lower (and always manages to find a way), of the painful irony of seeing evangelicals hold up Trump as some kind of modern messiah ... it'll be more of the same.

But here's the thing: if I despised America, if I wanted to see America's reputation trodden into the ground, its reputation sullied, its values and qualities rendered meaningless, then which of the two candidates am I going to want to see in the White House? It's as simple as that. If I were a foreign power with the intelligence and technological muscle to try and make that happen, I would be doing everything in my power to make that a reality. It's worked so well for the past four years. Sure, there have been sanctions, but - playing the long, geopolitical gain, I would still want Trump as President, because no one can be relied upon to do a better job of stomping America's reputation and its standing into the ground as effectively as Trump.

You cannot expect a man with no personal values, morality or qualities to suddenly change and be that guardian of America's values and integrity, when he has no respect for them. Can people not see that he shows his level every day - the bully with the verbal skills of a ten year old. If I were America's enemy, he would be the man I'd like to see in charge. And I'd do everything I could to make that happen.


I am confused, can you confirm you thought highly of America before Trump? so you liked how America went into Vietnam? how it participated in the first Gulf war? then invading Afghanistan? Invading Iraq?

So your opinion of America was high, til Trump showed up is that it?

Or you always had your negative views of the reputation of America just that Trump is far worse than the previous bunch?

I thought the "world" did not like America to be the policemen of the world. Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.


Why do you have world in quotes? I assure you the world is a real thing.

Perhaps you missed his point entirely - the US represents post-WWII values of institutional stability, while promoting transparency and responsibility. No we are not perfect, but generally our allies respect and uphold those values. 45 admires ‘strong’ leaders who don’t have to put up with annoyances like a critical media, opposition parties, and inspectors general. He has tried to emulate them to some extent with his expansions of executive power. Another term reinforces these ‘new’ American values, while our institutions are increasingly unstable. Who is that good for? Not our allies, for sure. It has certainly been great for China - unless you have not been keeping up on their massive expansions of capital investment in ME, Africa, and Latin America while 45 has been distracted by just about everything.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3891
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 2:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
What wars has Trump ended?


Ending America's longest running war, that's quite an accomplishment most of you who hated America's wars would applaud.
There's a difference between ending a war, and running away from it.

Sure, the USA may no longer be involved, but the rule of law and western standards hardly apply Afghanistan.

Now, had the USA not started the war, then leaving the mess behind would still be bad but perhaps explainable/understable. But the USA did start the war. It only seems fair you clean up the mess.

And I would not be suprised at all if in a few months or years we found out that the USA are still there. No longer publically and definately not in large numbers, but behind the scenes. Small scale. Probably through military contractors to hide the presence.
Attamottamotta!
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1085
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 2:13 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
Another four years of Trump - another four years of asking "did he actually say that" and thinking that he can't sink any lower (and always manages to find a way), of the painful irony of seeing evangelicals hold up Trump as some kind of modern messiah ... it'll be more of the same.

But here's the thing: if I despised America, if I wanted to see America's reputation trodden into the ground, its reputation sullied, its values and qualities rendered meaningless, then which of the two candidates am I going to want to see in the White House? It's as simple as that. If I were a foreign power with the intelligence and technological muscle to try and make that happen, I would be doing everything in my power to make that a reality. It's worked so well for the past four years. Sure, there have been sanctions, but - playing the long, geopolitical gain, I would still want Trump as President, because no one can be relied upon to do a better job of stomping America's reputation and its standing into the ground as effectively as Trump.

You cannot expect a man with no personal values, morality or qualities to suddenly change and be that guardian of America's values and integrity, when he has no respect for them. Can people not see that he shows his level every day - the bully with the verbal skills of a ten year old. If I were America's enemy, he would be the man I'd like to see in charge. And I'd do everything I could to make that happen.


I am confused, can you confirm you thought highly of America before Trump? so you liked how America went into Vietnam? how it participated in the first Gulf war? then invading Afghanistan? Invading Iraq?

So your opinion of America was high, til Trump showed up is that it?

Or you always had your negative views of the reputation of America just that Trump is far worse than the previous bunch?

I thought the "world" did not like America to be the policemen of the world. Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.


Why do you have world in quotes? I assure you the world is a real thing.

Perhaps you missed his point entirely - the US represents post-WWII values of institutional stability, while promoting transparency and responsibility. No we are not perfect, but generally our allies respect and uphold those values. 45 admires ‘strong’ leaders who don’t have to put up with annoyances like a critical media, opposition parties, and inspectors general. He has tried to emulate them to some extent with his expansions of executive power. Another term reinforces these ‘new’ American values, while our institutions are increasingly unstable. Who is that good for? Not our allies, for sure. It has certainly been great for China - unless you have not been keeping up on their massive expansions of capital investment in ME, Africa, and Latin America while 45 has been distracted by just about everything.


I am not questioning anything. I am just asking, when was the reputation of America high? Vietnam is an example of people laughing and pointing at the US as a nation that goes into stupid wars.

We like to virtue signal too much, and look into things as if there is perfection or there is a great 'ruler' better than the rest etc. GWB was accused of being a 'war criminal' for the war in Iraq. Obama got involved in wars much more than Trump, since Trump hasn't started any wars. I am pretty sure the poster who I asked for him to respond, did not have a very nice point of view about the US even before Trump.

Just that Trump allows for the narrative that the US 'reputation' is low, because Trump is how he is and it goes on to show how the US position in the world is low.

Look I lived in Europe, specifically when I was younger my parents sent me to some relatives in Spain every other summer, I traveled everywhere, Latin America, Europe you name it. In my life I have never seen positive opinion about the US, and I am even talking before GWB and the like.

So I won't be told now that because of Trump the image of the US is at its worse.

I am sorry if the "America first" speech was not liked by the globalists, but that meant no further involvement in stupid and nonsensical wars and conflicts. That meant that America will think to itself, something the vast majority of the countries in the world do. If you look at present, those who criticized the nationalism Trump espoused and made him win, are the nations who during this current pandemic have as you seen become more nationalist than ever. Yes I am talking about Germany, look at them how they became nationalist over night again. Yes, its not bad to actually look out for your fellow citizens. In times of crisis is when you see how real people are. Now we all are nationalists, now we all are closed borders... there you go no more arguments against Trump and his foreign policies since the rest of the world are doing it too.

And now, the MSM and the globalist are saying "Trump is an isolationist. Etc." Yes of course we are, we have paid with Trillions and thousands of American soldiers lives our involvements in the world. And for what? we are still hated.

No difference with or without Trump.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11904
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Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 3:00 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am confused, can you confirm you thought highly of America before Trump? so you liked how America went into Vietnam? how it participated in the first Gulf war? then invading Afghanistan? Invading Iraq?

So your opinion of America was high, til Trump showed up is that it?

Or you always had your negative views of the reputation of America just that Trump is far worse than the previous bunch?

I thought the "world" did not like America to be the policemen of the world. Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.


Why do you have world in quotes? I assure you the world is a real thing.

Perhaps you missed his point entirely - the US represents post-WWII values of institutional stability, while promoting transparency and responsibility. No we are not perfect, but generally our allies respect and uphold those values. 45 admires ‘strong’ leaders who don’t have to put up with annoyances like a critical media, opposition parties, and inspectors general. He has tried to emulate them to some extent with his expansions of executive power. Another term reinforces these ‘new’ American values, while our institutions are increasingly unstable. Who is that good for? Not our allies, for sure. It has certainly been great for China - unless you have not been keeping up on their massive expansions of capital investment in ME, Africa, and Latin America while 45 has been distracted by just about everything.


I am not questioning anything. I am just asking, when was the reputation of America high? Vietnam is an example of people laughing and pointing at the US as a nation that goes into stupid wars.

We like to virtue signal too much, and look into things as if there is perfection or there is a great 'ruler' better than the rest etc. GWB was accused of being a 'war criminal' for the war in Iraq. Obama got involved in wars much more than Trump, since Trump hasn't started any wars. I am pretty sure the poster who I asked for him to respond, did not have a very nice point of view about the US even before Trump.

Just that Trump allows for the narrative that the US 'reputation' is low, because Trump is how he is and it goes on to show how the US position in the world is low.

Look I lived in Europe, specifically when I was younger my parents sent me to some relatives in Spain every other summer, I traveled everywhere, Latin America, Europe you name it. In my life I have never seen positive opinion about the US, and I am even talking before GWB and the like.

So I won't be told now that because of Trump the image of the US is at its worse.

I am sorry if the "America first" speech was not liked by the globalists, but that meant no further involvement in stupid and nonsensical wars and conflicts. That meant that America will think to itself, something the vast majority of the countries in the world do. If you look at present, those who criticized the nationalism Trump espoused and made him win, are the nations who during this current pandemic have as you seen become more nationalist than ever. Yes I am talking about Germany, look at them how they became nationalist over night again. Yes, its not bad to actually look out for your fellow citizens. In times of crisis is when you see how real people are. Now we all are nationalists, now we all are closed borders... there you go no more arguments against Trump and his foreign policies since the rest of the world are doing it too.

And now, the MSM and the globalist are saying "Trump is an isolationist. Etc." Yes of course we are, we have paid with Trillions and thousands of American soldiers lives our involvements in the world. And for what? we are still hated.

No difference with or without Trump.


Nuance is not your strong suit. None of that speaks to the actual point.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
bgm
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 3:31 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am confused, can you confirm you thought highly of America before Trump? so you liked how America went into Vietnam? how it participated in the first Gulf war? then invading Afghanistan? Invading Iraq?

So your opinion of America was high, til Trump showed up is that it?

Or you always had your negative views of the reputation of America just that Trump is far worse than the previous bunch?

I thought the "world" did not like America to be the policemen of the world. Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.


Why do you have world in quotes? I assure you the world is a real thing.

Perhaps you missed his point entirely - the US represents post-WWII values of institutional stability, while promoting transparency and responsibility. No we are not perfect, but generally our allies respect and uphold those values. 45 admires ‘strong’ leaders who don’t have to put up with annoyances like a critical media, opposition parties, and inspectors general. He has tried to emulate them to some extent with his expansions of executive power. Another term reinforces these ‘new’ American values, while our institutions are increasingly unstable. Who is that good for? Not our allies, for sure. It has certainly been great for China - unless you have not been keeping up on their massive expansions of capital investment in ME, Africa, and Latin America while 45 has been distracted by just about everything.


I am not questioning anything. I am just asking, when was the reputation of America high? Vietnam is an example of people laughing and pointing at the US as a nation that goes into stupid wars.

We like to virtue signal too much, and look into things as if there is perfection or there is a great 'ruler' better than the rest etc. GWB was accused of being a 'war criminal' for the war in Iraq. Obama got involved in wars much more than Trump, since Trump hasn't started any wars. I am pretty sure the poster who I asked for him to respond, did not have a very nice point of view about the US even before Trump.

Just that Trump allows for the narrative that the US 'reputation' is low, because Trump is how he is and it goes on to show how the US position in the world is low.

Look I lived in Europe, specifically when I was younger my parents sent me to some relatives in Spain every other summer, I traveled everywhere, Latin America, Europe you name it. In my life I have never seen positive opinion about the US, and I am even talking before GWB and the like.

So I won't be told now that because of Trump the image of the US is at its worse.

I am sorry if the "America first" speech was not liked by the globalists, but that meant no further involvement in stupid and nonsensical wars and conflicts. That meant that America will think to itself, something the vast majority of the countries in the world do. If you look at present, those who criticized the nationalism Trump espoused and made him win, are the nations who during this current pandemic have as you seen become more nationalist than ever. Yes I am talking about Germany, look at them how they became nationalist over night again. Yes, its not bad to actually look out for your fellow citizens. In times of crisis is when you see how real people are. Now we all are nationalists, now we all are closed borders... there you go no more arguments against Trump and his foreign policies since the rest of the world are doing it too.

And now, the MSM and the globalist are saying "Trump is an isolationist. Etc." Yes of course we are, we have paid with Trillions and thousands of American soldiers lives our involvements in the world. And for what? we are still hated.

No difference with or without Trump.


What Kaitak was saying is that before, yes people were critical of US foreign policy, but there was still a healthy respect for the US, its institutions, and many of its core values. Trump has eroded that. He's turned the US a complete laughing stock; a dysfunctional, weak, and ineffective shell of its former self.
If you hate wearing a mask, you’re really going to hate using a ventilator.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12872
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 pm

bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Why do you have world in quotes? I assure you the world is a real thing.

Perhaps you missed his point entirely - the US represents post-WWII values of institutional stability, while promoting transparency and responsibility. No we are not perfect, but generally our allies respect and uphold those values. 45 admires ‘strong’ leaders who don’t have to put up with annoyances like a critical media, opposition parties, and inspectors general. He has tried to emulate them to some extent with his expansions of executive power. Another term reinforces these ‘new’ American values, while our institutions are increasingly unstable. Who is that good for? Not our allies, for sure. It has certainly been great for China - unless you have not been keeping up on their massive expansions of capital investment in ME, Africa, and Latin America while 45 has been distracted by just about everything.


I am not questioning anything. I am just asking, when was the reputation of America high? Vietnam is an example of people laughing and pointing at the US as a nation that goes into stupid wars.

We like to virtue signal too much, and look into things as if there is perfection or there is a great 'ruler' better than the rest etc. GWB was accused of being a 'war criminal' for the war in Iraq. Obama got involved in wars much more than Trump, since Trump hasn't started any wars. I am pretty sure the poster who I asked for him to respond, did not have a very nice point of view about the US even before Trump.

Just that Trump allows for the narrative that the US 'reputation' is low, because Trump is how he is and it goes on to show how the US position in the world is low.

Look I lived in Europe, specifically when I was younger my parents sent me to some relatives in Spain every other summer, I traveled everywhere, Latin America, Europe you name it. In my life I have never seen positive opinion about the US, and I am even talking before GWB and the like.

So I won't be told now that because of Trump the image of the US is at its worse.

I am sorry if the "America first" speech was not liked by the globalists, but that meant no further involvement in stupid and nonsensical wars and conflicts. That meant that America will think to itself, something the vast majority of the countries in the world do. If you look at present, those who criticized the nationalism Trump espoused and made him win, are the nations who during this current pandemic have as you seen become more nationalist than ever. Yes I am talking about Germany, look at them how they became nationalist over night again. Yes, its not bad to actually look out for your fellow citizens. In times of crisis is when you see how real people are. Now we all are nationalists, now we all are closed borders... there you go no more arguments against Trump and his foreign policies since the rest of the world are doing it too.

And now, the MSM and the globalist are saying "Trump is an isolationist. Etc." Yes of course we are, we have paid with Trillions and thousands of American soldiers lives our involvements in the world. And for what? we are still hated.

No difference with or without Trump.


What Kaitak was saying is that before, yes people were critical of US foreign policy, but there was still a healthy respect for the US, its institutions, and many of its core values. Trump has eroded that. He's turned the US a complete laughing stock; a dysfunctional, weak, and ineffective shell of its former self.


Check... FAA and CDC are now the worlds laughing stock.

And you are right.... even war criminal Bush still had plenty of respect, although we assumed no one could be any dummer and alive..

petertenthije wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
What wars has Trump ended?


Ending America's longest running war, that's quite an accomplishment most of you who hated America's wars would applaud.
There's a difference between ending a war, and running away from it.

Sure, the USA may no longer be involved, but the rule of law and western standards hardly apply Afghanistan.

Now, had the USA not started the war, then leaving the mess behind would still be bad but perhaps explainable/understable. But the USA did start the war. It only seems fair you clean up the mess.

And I would not be suprised at all if in a few months or years we found out that the USA are still there. No longer publically and definately not in large numbers, but behind the scenes. Small scale. Probably through military contractors to hide the presence.


The right is redefining many words at the moment, in best orwellian tradition.

Ending war = leading our allies to the slaughterhouse.

That, plus telling russians in advance what he would shot at.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Wed May 20, 2020 7:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am confused, can you confirm you thought highly of America before Trump? so you liked how America went into Vietnam? how it participated in the first Gulf war? then invading Afghanistan? Invading Iraq?

So your opinion of America was high, til Trump showed up is that it?

Or you always had your negative views of the reputation of America just that Trump is far worse than the previous bunch?

I thought the "world" did not like America to be the policemen of the world. Trump is ending wars others started, yet that's not enough for "America's reputation" to be high.

I am confused.


Why do you have world in quotes? I assure you the world is a real thing.

Perhaps you missed his point entirely - the US represents post-WWII values of institutional stability, while promoting transparency and responsibility. No we are not perfect, but generally our allies respect and uphold those values. 45 admires ‘strong’ leaders who don’t have to put up with annoyances like a critical media, opposition parties, and inspectors general. He has tried to emulate them to some extent with his expansions of executive power. Another term reinforces these ‘new’ American values, while our institutions are increasingly unstable. Who is that good for? Not our allies, for sure. It has certainly been great for China - unless you have not been keeping up on their massive expansions of capital investment in ME, Africa, and Latin America while 45 has been distracted by just about everything.


I am not questioning anything. I am just asking, when was the reputation of America high? Vietnam is an example of people laughing and pointing at the US as a nation that goes into stupid wars.

We like to virtue signal too much, and look into things as if there is perfection or there is a great 'ruler' better than the rest etc. GWB was accused of being a 'war criminal' for the war in Iraq. Obama got involved in wars much more than Trump, since Trump hasn't started any wars. I am pretty sure the poster who I asked for him to respond, did not have a very nice point of view about the US even before Trump.

Just that Trump allows for the narrative that the US 'reputation' is low, because Trump is how he is and it goes on to show how the US position in the world is low.

Look I lived in Europe, specifically when I was younger my parents sent me to some relatives in Spain every other summer, I traveled everywhere, Latin America, Europe you name it. In my life I have never seen positive opinion about the US, and I am even talking before GWB and the like.

So I won't be told now that because of Trump the image of the US is at its worse.

I am sorry if the "America first" speech was not liked by the globalists, but that meant no further involvement in stupid and nonsensical wars and conflicts. That meant that America will think to itself, something the vast majority of the countries in the world do. If you look at present, those who criticized the nationalism Trump espoused and made him win, are the nations who during this current pandemic have as you seen become more nationalist than ever. Yes I am talking about Germany, look at them how they became nationalist over night again. Yes, its not bad to actually look out for your fellow citizens. In times of crisis is when you see how real people are. Now we all are nationalists, now we all are closed borders... there you go no more arguments against Trump and his foreign policies since the rest of the world are doing it too.

And now, the MSM and the globalist are saying "Trump is an isolationist. Etc." Yes of course we are, we have paid with Trillions and thousands of American soldiers lives our involvements in the world. And for what? we are still hated.

No difference with or without Trump.


I was reading through the thread and the section above, bolded, really stood out.

I didn't grow up summering in Europe with relatives, or grow up with the privilege of having 'traveled everywhere' but have traveled to different spots of the world as I have gotten older and saved $ for myself, and I have always found that most people have a fairly diverse and nuanced opinion of the United States - positive and negative. Sure, negative comments around some of the politics and foreign policy decisions, but certainly lots of positives to say in terms of the United States being a powerhouse in the fields of technology, entertainment, research etc. you name it.

Maybe it was more of a reflection of the people you hung out with, and met when you had the benefit of traveling to the different ends of the globe as a young person. The world is full of a diversity of opinions, so it is remarkable (dare I say, unbelievable) that you have never seen or heard a positive opinion. Or was it just hyperbole?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22296
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Thu May 21, 2020 4:53 pm

Some states are looking at making it easier for their citizens to vote in November. Guess who is having none of it?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-thre ... in-voting/
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSto ... e-70785122

Yes, he is threatening to cut funding if states make it easier for legal citizens to vote.

Kushner suggested he postpone the election but, legally, that can not be done. It is too bad we don't have a Constitutional scholar somewhere in the White House.....

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-c ... rus-2020-3
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13022
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Consequences of Trump's re-election

Sat May 30, 2020 2:52 pm

If Trump wins the SCOTUS is probably regressive for a few decades, but what if he loses ? If the Democrats have enough votes, should they push for progressive leaning judges to retire ASAP, even if in good health, to replace them with young judges that can last half a century or something like that ?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Funny, people keep imagining MONEY buys elections, not ideas or the message. Clinton outspent Trump, how’d that money work? Loads of lesser elections show the same thing. Lots of things win elections, money way down the list after ideas, ability to connect with the voters, charisma, understanding voters. Trump won against very long odds and predicted he would despite idiot statements, a trainload of baggage, chaotic campaigning and being outspent.


It's the other way around. Without money you can't participate, and thus can't win elections. That's why the winners are all beholden to the corporations that financed them. Trump could have been different as he used his own money, but it turns out he's even worse, wanting to make money for himself on top of his corporate buddies.
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