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6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:38 pm
by acavpics
The clock is has struck midnight for those on the far east, marking the 6 year anniversary of the mysterious crash of MH370.

It's not like the world can't easily see that this was a suicide mission by the captain, based on all the facts and evidence. Last summer, The Atlantic posted a detailed article about MH370’s disappearance, and they have basically given all possible evidence that points to the captain performing a suicide mission that he very well knew would be covered up by the government. [The link to the article is given below]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... es/590653/
Do you think finally time for the Malaysia government and military to stop this childish cover up and just admit that Zaharie Ahmad Shah did it?
It would only benefit the country to stop making a fool of itself for all these years.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:54 pm
by IWMBH
Well, you can assume all you want. But, as long as the plane is missing, you can't prove anything.
I don't think the Malaysian Government should blame the captain of the murder of his passengers if aren't absolutely certain.
Imagine what that would mean for the family.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:54 pm
by peterinlisbon
Nobody knows for sure what happened, as the black box was never found. Personally my opinion is that he planned to land somewhere like Diego Garcia but he knocked himself out when he depressurized the plane at a high altitude (maybe he didn't get his oxygen mask on in time).

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:31 pm
by Starfuryt
RIP to the crew and passengers. Hard to believe it's been 6 years and we are no closer to finding the answers. I would advise against jumping to conclusions. Blaming the captain the easiest thing to do for everyone. It's always easy to blame someone who is not there to defend himself, the reality might be far more complex.

-Mikhail

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:31 pm
by CarbonFibre
Diego Garcia then chopped up.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:40 pm
by bennett123
Assuming that The Atlantic has got it right, it would be a bit awkward for Malaysia to now say that they knew all along.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:23 pm
by spinotter
CarbonFibre wrote:
Diego Garcia then chopped up.


But were the USA forces on Diego Garcia part of the conspiracy, in your view? And why?

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:38 pm
by B777LRF
Applying Occam's Razor, the only likely scenario is that the skipper locked the FO out of the cockpit, switched off the transponder, dumped the cabin pressurisation whilst going on oxygen and eventually pointed the nose towards somewhere deep in the Indian Ocean, where it flew on until eventually running out of fuel. Any other explanation require mental gymnastics of an extreme kind, coupled with a belief in conspiracy theories mostly associated with flat earthers.

Barring physical evidence, Malaysia may cling to any number of far fetched theories to avoid this uncomfortable conclusion. And even if evidence should show up, that may not be enough - if you recall MS990 and the Egyptian authorities.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:50 pm
by studedave
spinotter wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
Diego Garcia then chopped up.

But were the USA forces on Diego Garcia part of the conspiracy, in your view? And why?


The Brits would also have to be in on it-- it's their Island.

The Filipino contractors would also have to be in on it- they work there.

There are others who would have to be in on it as well.
But I can't talk about them, sorry.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:25 pm
by Antarius
Starfuryt wrote:
RIP to the crew and passengers. Hard to believe it's been 6 years and we are no closer to finding the answers. I would advise against jumping to conclusions. Blaming the captain the easiest thing to do for everyone. It's always easy to blame someone who is not there to defend himself, the reality might be far more complex.

-Mikhail


With the information we have, it is clear that the maneuvers and timing of aforementioned maneuvers could be nothing but direct human action.

It's not blaming the pilots due to it being easy. It's simply because there is no other possible, forget about plausible, explanation.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:51 pm
by ikolkyo
Still wild to m that a 777 full of passengers can just up and vanish for years.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 pm
by RDUDDJI
studedave wrote:
spinotter wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
Diego Garcia then chopped up.

But were the USA forces on Diego Garcia part of the conspiracy, in your view? And why?


The Brits would also have to be in on it-- it's their Island.

The Filipino contractors would also have to be in on it- they work there.

There are others who would have to be in on it as well.
But I can't talk about them, sorry.


I think the Diego Garcia conspiracy is debunked simply by asking Cui Bono? (Who benefits?). The US, UK, Filipinos, etc. wouldn't gain anything meaningful for being complicit in this far fetched conspiracy theory.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:08 pm
by Antarius
RDUDDJI wrote:
studedave wrote:
spinotter wrote:
But were the USA forces on Diego Garcia part of the conspiracy, in your view? And why?


The Brits would also have to be in on it-- it's their Island.

The Filipino contractors would also have to be in on it- they work there.

There are others who would have to be in on it as well.
But I can't talk about them, sorry.


I think the Diego Garcia conspiracy is debunked simply by asking Cui Bono? (Who benefits?). The US, UK, Filipinos, etc. wouldn't gain anything meaningful for being complicit in this far fetched conspiracy theory.


It is also debunked as parts of the aircraft washed up in Africa. If it was landed and cut up, the parts wouldn't exist.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:05 am
by Arion640
CarbonFibre wrote:
Diego Garcia then chopped up.


And the point of that would of been?

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:13 am
by acavpics
peterinlisbon wrote:
Nobody knows for sure what happened, as the black box was never found. Personally my opinion is that he planned to land somewhere like Diego Garcia but he knocked himself out when he depressurized the plane at a high altitude (maybe he didn't get his oxygen mask on in time).


Why would he divert to Diego Garcia? If a diversion was necessary, I'd think that returning to KUL would be the best option. And also, why wasn't there a distress signal?

There is no technical problem that can make a plane suddenly turn its transponder off, yet continue to fly such an elaborate path for the next several hours. And lets not forget that Z. Shah plotted a nearly identical route on his flight simulator to the middle of the ocean during the weeks leading up to the crash.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:48 am
by enzo011
acavpics wrote:
Why would he divert to Diego Garcia? If a diversion was necessary, I'd think that returning to KUL would be the best option. And also, why wasn't there a distress signal?

There is no technical problem that can make a plane suddenly turn its transponder off, yet continue to fly such an elaborate path for the next several hours. And lets not forget that Z. Shah plotted a nearly identical route on his flight simulator to the middle of the ocean during the weeks leading up to the crash.



I don't know what happened. I know the easiest explanation is that the captain did it, but you cannot state with 100% certainty that this is what happened. So until the wreckage is found and concrete information can be deduced from that, it is a little folly to state that the truth is known.

I would also point out the author is William Langewiesche, who went out of his way to blame the pilots of the 2 737 MAX crashes in a later New York Times article. I will quote the very same author in his 737 MAX article and wish he would follow his own advice, "It is understandable to look for a simple answer."

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:50 am
by SkyVoice
acavpics wrote:
There is no technical problem that can make a plane suddenly turn its transponder off, yet continue to fly such an elaborate path for the next several hours. And lets not forget that Z. Shah plotted a nearly identical route on his flight simulator to the middle of the ocean during the weeks leading up to the crash.


If "practice makes perfect" every time, then the Yankees would never lose another game, would they? Circumstantial evidence does not constitute proof.

ikolkyo wrote:
Still wild to m that a 777 full of passengers can just up and vanish for years.


I thought that, too, until I got to thinking about how small the surface area of a Boeing 777-200ER is compared to the surface area of the Indian Ocean. Just like the RMS Titanic in the North Atlantic, it's just a speck of dust in the universe.

We are still dealing with peoples' lives here. RIP to the victims, Godspeed to their survivors.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:23 am
by ltbewr
To me a big problem was the lack of proper 24/7 staffing of military radar and ATC stations in the region that didn't notice that suddenly an aircraft disappeared or made an abrupt change in their flight path. Those respective governments involved want that downplayed so don't show weaknesses in their border controls, their military or ATC.
If there was proper watching of air traffic in the region including this flight, it is likely military fighter jets would be sent up to monitor it, to see if a decompression or an intended terrorist act including a possible planned attack similar to 9/11 into a landmark building. We are familiar with a number of cases, like Helios or that of pro golfer Payne Stewart, of planes that when determined to have gone off course due to a decompression event by good ATC that military aircraft were sent up to investigate. If this flight has been noticed to have gone way off course, it could have led to further monitoring of its path by other ATC's and military forces and possibly have located it wreckage to recover its recorders far earlier and we might better know what happened.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:14 am
by raylee67
acavpics wrote:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... es/590653/
Do you think finally time for the Malaysia government and military to stop this childish cover up and just admit that Zaharie Ahmad Shah did it?
It would only benefit the country to stop making a fool of itself for all these years.


While this is the most logical conclusion given the circumstantial evidence, there is no concrete proof. The Malaysian government would truly don't know if this is the truth. They cannot admit to something they don't know concretely. They can say this is the most probable cause, and I think they have said so already. On the other hand, the world has to realize that there are things in this world that we will never know the truth. And move on.

However, what Malaysia should improve on is how it's tracking and essentially defending its airspace. There was an unidentified aircraft penetrating the country's airspace from the Pacific and crossed all the way to the Indian, and there was no response by the military. No escalation through the chain of command, no attempt to report, no attempt to fly a fighter jet up there to see what this is. In a post-911 world, this is simply unacceptable from defense perspective. I remember that in the early days of the investigation, it was Thai forces alerting Malaysian authorities that the tracked a plane flying over northern Malaysian airspace that night, that caused the search to move from Gulf of Thailand to the Indian Ocean. The Malaysian would still have been searching near Vietnam now if it's not the Thai forces "saw" the plane over Malaysian airspace. It's like Malaysia was undefended.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:28 am
by RWA380
acavpics wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Nobody knows for sure what happened, as the black box was never found. Personally my opinion is that he planned to land somewhere like Diego Garcia but he knocked himself out when he depressurized the plane at a high altitude (maybe he didn't get his oxygen mask on in time).


Why would he divert to Diego Garcia? If a diversion was necessary, I'd think that returning to KUL would be the best option. And also, why wasn't there a distress signal?

There is no technical problem that can make a plane suddenly turn its transponder off, yet continue to fly such an elaborate path for the next several hours. And lets not forget that Z. Shah plotted a nearly identical route on his flight simulator to the middle of the ocean during the weeks leading up to the crash.


Have you ever heard of Shrodingers cat? The concept that something can be true & the opposite can be at the same time? With no real proof, other than same confirmed washed up parts from the aircraft, or in the case of the cat, one looks into the box that contains the cat to inspect it's potential mortality, your theory can be as plausible & at the same time an alternate reality is just as possible.
For this reason alone the Malaysian government can continue it's denial forever, even if they do know something that they have not provided to International, Australian, Chinese & US Authorities, given each of these countries, plus more lost citizens on-board. I doubt Malaysia can afford to piss that many countries off at once.

Heck even the Saudis finally admitted (via a huge massive lie) they killed Khashoggi in Istanbul. Malaysia has nothing to win by keeping mute, the face they'll lose if a coverup is found now, will sink their economy with economic sanctions & tariffs on goods from there & imposed restrictions as punishment. Only IF you are correct, then I concur with you. Malaysia should reveal what they potentially knows.

"Schrödinger wanted people to imagine that a cat, poison, a geiger counter, radioactive material, and a hammer were inside of a sealed container. The amount of radioactive material was minuscule enough that it only had a 50/50 shot of being detected over the course of an hour. If the geiger counter detected radiation, the hammer would smash the poison, killing the cat. Until someone opened the container and observed the system, it was impossible to predict if the cat’s outcome. Thus, until the system collapsed into one configuration, the cat would exist in some superposition zombie state of being both alive and dead." https://www.iflscience.com/physics/schr ... explained/

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:50 am
by workhorse
B777LRF wrote:
dumped the cabin pressurisation


I thought we had 777 pilots here explaining that it's not possible?

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:31 am
by VV
It is most likely a mass alien abduction.

The truth is out there.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:05 am
by zeke
workhorse wrote:

I thought we had 777 pilots here explaining that it's not possible?


It is possible on any pressurised aircraft to dump the cabin pressure, a reason for that maybe due to a smoke checklist.

The problem with that argument of locking the FO out and dumping the pressure is the oxygen masks will auto deploy in the cabin as the cabin depressurises, and you get auto PA announcements to put your mask on eg Helios 552. So the FO would have oxygen available, a PA to say the cabin is depressurising, plus you can still communicate with the ground from the cabin.

No one I know who flies a 777 buys the pilot suicide theory, I think it was a very remote technical issue such as EgyptAir Flight 667, an EFB battery fire, or a liquid spill followed by a fire. Any fire that involves the cockpit oxygen would be unrecoverable.

I won’t give my frank opinion of what’s been posted on this thread as it would get moderated. There is no proof in the OPs initial statements, they are unfounded opinion.

Nothing factual in this thread, should be in non av.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:23 am
by planecane
zeke wrote:
workhorse wrote:

I thought we had 777 pilots here explaining that it's not possible?


It is possible on any pressurised aircraft to dump the cabin pressure, a reason for that maybe due to a smoke checklist.

The problem with that argument of locking the FO out and dumping the pressure is the oxygen masks will auto deploy in the cabin as the cabin depressurises, and you get auto PA announcements to put your mask on eg Helios 552. So the FO would have oxygen available, a PA to say the cabin is depressurising, plus you can still communicate with the ground from the cabin.

No one I know who flies a 777 buys the pilot suicide theory, I think it was a very remote technical issue such as EgyptAir Flight 667, an EFB battery fire, or a liquid spill followed by a fire. Any fire that involves the cockpit oxygen would be unrecoverable.

I won’t give my frank opinion of what’s been posted on this thread as it would get moderated. There is no proof in the OPs initial statements, they are unfounded opinion.

Nothing factual in this thread, should be in non av.


There is no proof one way or the other but couldn't the captain have attacked/killed the FO in the cockpit? Then communicated with the cabin crew so there would be no need for them to contact the ground. He could have told them he was dealing with a technical issue to keep them at bay until their oxygen ran out.

It would definitely be quite the coincidence that a crazy, 1 in a trillion failure would cause the aircraft to fly such a similar route to what they found on the Captain's flight simulator.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:37 am
by hinckley
zeke wrote:
plus you can still communicate with the ground from the cabin.

How?

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:38 am
by TheDutchman92
Can somebody help me understand why the 777 was not intercepted by Indonesian or Australian air forces?

The Identify Friend or Foe transponder was switched off so you've got a large unknown bogey the size of a possible military transport aircraft flying around on radio silence - wouldn't any self respecting air defence want to scramble fast air to get eyes on and try to identify the intruder?

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Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:46 am
by zeke
planecane wrote:
There is no proof one way or the other but couldn't the captain have attacked/killed the FO in the cockpit? Then communicated with the cabin crew so there would be no need for them to contact the ground. He could have told them he was dealing with a technical issue to keep them at bay until their oxygen ran out.


The masks would still drop, the auto PA would still be made, and the cabin crew would know even from maximum altitude it would only take 10 min to get to 10,000 ft.

planecane wrote:
It would definitely be quite the coincidence that a crazy, 1 in a trillion failure would cause the aircraft to fly such a similar route to what they found on the Captain's flight simulator.


They didn’t find the same flight path on his home computer that it a myth that the tin foil hat brigade brings up. 3 weeks prior to the event he flew to JED and flew the initial route on him home sim. He also flew the 737 and DC-3 during the period.

Lots of pilots have home simulators and practice all sorts of emergencies, that does not make them suicidal. It’s just a study aid, from what I remember he had that machine for over 10 years, think they found flight simulator 98 on it.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:49 am
by hinckley
TheDutchman92 wrote:
Can somebody help me understand why the 777 was not intercepted by Indonesian or Australian air forces?

The Identify Friend or Foe transponder was switched off so you've got a large unknown bogey the size of a possible military transport aircraft flying around on radio silence - wouldn't any self respecting air defence want to scramble fast air to get eyes on and try to identify the intruder?

The Malaysian defense forces had essentially gone to bed for the night (not a joke). The Thai military saw the plane but it was flying directly along the Thai/Malaysian border and thought the Malaysians had it. That's what's sparked so much conversation about military coverups hiding incompetent practices. As for the Aussies, the plane was flying well off their west coast and was not flying in the direction of the country. I don't think the plane even showed up on their radars.

I think it's a common misconception to believe that any country can see every blip of aircraft anywhere in the world. Even the US's fleet of military satellites can't see everything everywhere, especially in that most remote part of the world.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:52 am
by zeke
hinckley wrote:
How?


The cabin has phones installed for cabin crew to call operations (eg to verify a credit card for large duty free purchases or medical help), and also have ACARS.

TheDutchman92 wrote:
Can somebody help me understand why the 777 was not intercepted by Indonesian or Australian air forces?


Australia has no SSR that covers that area, and no aircraft based on the west coast that have the range to get out there.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:53 am
by TheDutchman92
hinckley wrote:
TheDutchman92 wrote:
Can somebody help me understand why the 777 was not intercepted by Indonesian or Australian air forces?

The Identify Friend or Foe transponder was switched off so you've got a large unknown bogey the size of a possible military transport aircraft flying around on radio silence - wouldn't any self respecting air defence want to scramble fast air to get eyes on and try to identify the intruder?

The Malaysian defense forces had essentially gone to bed for the night (not a joke). The Thai military saw the plane but it was flying directly along the Thai/Malaysian border and thought the Malaysians had it. That's what's sparked so much conversation about military coverups hiding incompetent practices. As for the Aussies, the plane was flying well off their west coast and was not flying in the direction of the country. I don't think the plane even showed up on their radars.

I think it's a common misconception to believe that any country can see every blip of aircraft anywhere in the world. Even the US's fleet of military satellites can't see everything everywhere, especially in that most remote part of the world.
Thanks!

I would have thought our massively powerful radar station here in Australia might have caught it but like you said it wasn't postured as a threat. Indonesia with it's vast archipelagos should probably have been alerted but they can't even seem to maintain a tsunami warning system paid for by Australia.

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Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:14 pm
by 777Jet
The most likely scenario by far is still that the Captain, a very experienced 777 pilot who knew the region very well and whose possible motives have been discussed, intentionally did this.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:17 pm
by 777Jet
zeke wrote:
No one I know who flies a 777 buys the pilot suicide theory,


And here I was all these years thinking that pilots were supposed to have intelligence... :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:20 pm
by TheFlyingDisk
acavpics wrote:
Do you think finally time for the Malaysia government and military to stop this childish cover up and just admit that Zaharie Ahmad Shah did it?
It would only benefit the country to stop making a fool of itself for all these years.


Those who are unfamiliar with the Malaysian political scenario would think this is the case. But in actuality, the political scenario wouldn't have warranted a cover-up if Zaharie did it.

Zaharie was a member of Anwar Ibrahim's party, who was a thorn in the ruling party's flesh. If there's even a shred of circumstantial evidence that Zaharie did it, then the government would have amplified Zaharie's association with Anwar. Heck, they could have even concocted a story stating how it was planned by Anwar and members of his party in order quell dissent and weaken the opposition. If they had done that, they'd still be in power now.

But they didn't, and that led to the endgame whereby another political bloc managed to wrestled political power away from them, the first time in Malaysia's 61 year history that it had happened.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:23 pm
by hinckley
zeke wrote:
The cabin has phones installed for cabin crew to call operations (eg to verify a credit card for large duty free purchases or medical help), and also have ACARS.

I'd like to understand this better, because I'm not sure I buy it. A mechanism for cabin crew to contact ground stations seems completely logical especially with the history of pilot suicides, terrorist attacks and general cabin mayhem. As I think about it now, I'm not sure why such a mechanism wouldn't exist. But if it does, why has it never been used in the proven cases of pilot suicide such as Germanwings 9525? God knows those poor souls had time to contact the ground.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:30 pm
by hinckley
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Those who are unfamiliar with the Malaysian political scenario would think this is the case. But in actuality, the political scenario wouldn't have warranted a cover-up if Zaharie did it.

I'm one of staunch believers that the fate of MH370 lies in the suicide theory. But of course, it's only a theory and as others have said, nothing will be proved unless/until the plane is found. And I'm not convinced that if it was suicide, it had political motives. I think it's very hard to see inside the mind of suicidal individual. However, if there was a coverup - and I believe there was - it wouldn't necessarily have been political in nature. I think it was a coverup hiding the military's incompetence. And no Malaysian government, of any party, is going to mess with the military.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:39 pm
by TheFlyingDisk
hinckley wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Those who are unfamiliar with the Malaysian political scenario would think this is the case. But in actuality, the political scenario wouldn't have warranted a cover-up if Zaharie did it.

I'm one of staunch believers that the fate of MH370 lies in the suicide theory. But of course, it's only a theory and as others have said, nothing will be proved unless/until the plane is found. And I'm not convinced that if it was suicide, it had political motives. I think it's very hard to see inside the mind of suicidal individual. However, if there was a coverup - and I believe there was - it wouldn't necessarily have been political in nature. I think it was a coverup hiding the military's incompetence. And no Malaysian government, of any party, is going to mess with the military.


If his suicide has no political motives, he could have just dived the plane in Vietnamese waters and be done with it. All the subterfuge is unnecessary.

Just to set the scene, earlier that day on March 7 2014, Anwar Ibrahim lost the appeal regarding his sodomy acquittal, which meant he was going to jail. So this could have been the straw that broke the camel's back for Zaharie. He might have planned this earlier because he knows the Malaysian government response would not be great, so he could get his revenge by humiliating the government in the eyes of the world.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:49 pm
by zeke
TheDutchman92 wrote:
I would have thought our massively powerful radar station here in Australia might have caught it but like you said it wasn't postured as a threat.


The Jindalee Operational Radar Network is not a SSR radar, it does not see transponder returns. The areas the radar covers depends on what they have set it to for the time it is being used, if there was was another issue further East like potential drug or people smuggling it would be looking at a different area, it cannot cover the whole area at once. The Western Australia antennas look at 3 different tiles depending on the operational needs for the day. The radar also has atmospheric limitations around the equator as it relies on the ionosphere. China would have had the best view of the area with their over the horizon radar located north of the equator looking at the South China Sea to behind Singapore, however we know they first were claiming went down in the South China Sea,

777Jet wrote:
The most likely scenario by far is still that the Captain, a very experienced 777 pilot who knew the region very well and whose possible motives have been discussed, intentionally did this.


It is only “most likely” by those who are blind Boeing fans.

There was no medical history of mental illness with the pilot, unlike germanwings. This actually happened to a 777 on the ground http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7/0000 what do you think the result would be if that happened in the air ?

hinckley wrote:
As I think about it now, I'm not sure why such a mechanism wouldn't exist. But if it does, why has it never been used in the proven cases of pilot suicide such as Germanwings 9525? God knows those poor souls had time to contact the ground.


The means to communicate with the aircraft from the cabin do exist, the cabin crew let the company know in advance of passenger needs, it is also his arrival gate, and flight connections are uploaded to the aircraft. Germanwings was all over in 10 minutes from when the aircrafts started its dive to ground impact, the 777 we are talking about hours on end. Cabin crew would also know how to activate the portable ELTs in the cabin.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:02 pm
by AeroplaneFreak
zeke wrote:
TheDutchman92 wrote:
It is only “most likely” by those who are blind Boeing fans.

There was no medical history of mental illness with the pilot, unlike germanwings. This actually happened to a 777 on the ground http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7/0000 what do you think the result would be if that happened in the air ?


Umm no, it is the "most likely" scenario by anyone who has studied the case in any detail, why bring Airbus vs. Boeing into it?

Also your understanding of mental illness doesn't seem to be very accurate. Just because someone doesn't have a history of mental illness doesn't mean they don't suffer from it. In fact that is one of the biggest problems with mental illness is that people bottle it up and don't seek/receive help.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:05 pm
by 777Jet
zeke wrote:
This actually happened to a 777 on the ground http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7/0000 what do you think the result would be if that happened in the air ?


If that happened in the air I don't think it would result in the aircraft turning back -(just minutes after a routine ATC sign off & without any further call to ATC)- and flying along FIR boundaries before turning again just after passing the Captain's home town before flying along and turning again just after passing the final point of land between the aircraft and the open ocean... I also think if that happened the flight would end quicker and not end up with a flight duration consistent with the fuel load. I think that nothing was wrong with this aircraft and it flew exactly how it was piloted to.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:13 pm
by par13del
ltbewr wrote:
To me a big problem was the lack of proper 24/7 staffing of military radar and ATC stations in the region that didn't notice that suddenly an aircraft disappeared or made an abrupt change in their flight path. Those respective governments involved want that downplayed so don't show weaknesses in their border controls, their military or ATC.
.

The problem I have with this theory is that it ignores the human element, by now 6 years later we would have had leaks from the military in the region of the training instructors and supervisors using the tragedy to ensure that every controller pays attention to their scopes, even the budgets being increased to ensure 24/7 monitoring.
If the lapse is made public and openly admitted, it serves as a greater tool for the future versus any secret changes they may have made or tried to make in the last 6 years. Citizens would gladly pay the extra taxes to get the additional radars if needed, or for more staff and or training to ensure all gaps have been closed.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:32 pm
by zeke
AeroplaneFreak wrote:
Umm no, it is the "most likely" scenario by anyone who has studied the case in any detail, why bring Airbus vs. Boeing into it?


Because die hard 777 fans never fault the aircraft, it is always the pilots fault.

From the report

3.1.3 Flight Crew Profile
1) General and Specific Human Factors Issues
a) There is no evidence to suggest any recent behavioural changes for the PIC, FO and cabin crew.
b) There is no evidence to suggest a pattern of regular over-the-counter medication purchase by the PIC. However, the possibility that such medication may have been purchased by cash cannot be excluded.

777Jet wrote:
If that happened in the air I don't think it would result in the aircraft turning back -(just minutes after a routine ATC sign off & without any further call to ATC)- and flying along FIR boundaries before turning again just after passing the Captain's home town before flying along and turning again just after passing the final point of land between the aircraft and the open ocean... I also think if that happened the flight would end quicker and not end up with a flight duration consistent with the fuel load. I think that nothing was wrong with this aircraft and it flew exactly how it was piloted to.


Of course you do, despite people having gone though his personal and professional life in fine detail.

Not that any of that is actually true, it is a string of conspiracy theory that didn’t make it to any report about the events.

There have been multiple flights where crew have become incapacitated for one reason or another and the aircraft just kept flying until it ran out of fuel,

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:43 pm
by cskok8
There are satellite phones at passenger seats that run on the Inmarsat network.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:07 pm
by VSMUT
TheDutchman92 wrote:
I would have thought our massively powerful radar station here in Australia might have caught it but like you said it wasn't postured as a threat. Indonesia with it's vast archipelagos should probably have been alerted but they can't even seem to maintain a tsunami warning system paid for by Australia.


Even assuming they had a radar that could track it that far out (doubtful), it would have been several hours flying time away from Australia. You don't "just" scramble fighter jets to a contact that far out. It would require planning and a tanker.

TheDutchman92 wrote:
The Identify Friend or Foe transponder was switched off so you've got a large unknown bogey the size of a possible military transport aircraft flying around on radio silence - wouldn't any self respecting air defence want to scramble fast air to get eyes on and try to identify the intruder?


To begin with, it's called a transponder in the civilian world. Second, outside of the west, countries just don't have the resources to guard every inch of their airspace, and least of all some godforsaken piece of insignificant jungle in Sumatra.


zeke wrote:
The problem with that argument of locking the FO out and dumping the pressure is the oxygen masks will auto deploy in the cabin as the cabin depressurises, and you get auto PA announcements to put your mask on eg Helios 552. So the FO would have oxygen available, a PA to say the cabin is depressurising, plus you can still communicate with the ground from the cabin.


Meh, you put too much emphasis on their ability to act correct in case of a depressurization (or any other fault). The three pilots on that Asiana 777 couldn't even land in perfect conditions. Airlines in the region put more emphasis on the cabin crew's looks and passenger service than safety. Heck, even pilots in the west have forgotten to put on their masks in case of explosive decompressions from time to time (a few business jet crashes come to mind). I'm almost willing to bet the cabin crew was been trained to take their stations in case of an emergency and not leave again until instructed to do so by the cockpit (meaning that if the entire cockpit crew was gone, nothing would be done).

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:05 pm
by M564038
If the captain did it, he would be the world’s first politically moderate, atheist terrorist.

The Malaysians would love that to be the explanation, but it obviously isn’t.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:56 pm
by spinotter
Antarius wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
studedave wrote:

The Brits would also have to be in on it-- it's their Island.

The Filipino contractors would also have to be in on it- they work there.

There are others who would have to be in on it as well.
But I can't talk about them, sorry.


I think the Diego Garcia conspiracy is debunked simply by asking Cui Bono? (Who benefits?). The US, UK, Filipinos, etc. wouldn't gain anything meaningful for being complicit in this far fetched conspiracy theory.


It is also debunked as parts of the aircraft washed up in Africa. If it was landed and cut up, the parts wouldn't exist.


Excellent point. I did not give much credit to the idea of Diego Garcia - it was more to hear some details of the Diego Garcia conspiracy theory, especially the motivation. The Atlantic article (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/) was excellent. The author believes that the pilot, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, engineered the whole thing, knew how to evade detection as much as possible, killed everyone else by depressurizing, and northwest of the tip of Sumatra turned southward to fly as far as possble toward the Antarctic before perhaps purposely ditching the 777, which apparently broke totally apart, with parts reaching Reunion etc. Do people agree that this is the most likely scenario?

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:10 pm
by Antarius
M564038 wrote:
If the captain did it, he would be the world’s first politically moderate, atheist terrorist.

The Malaysians would love that to be the explanation, but it obviously isn’t.


What about the Germanwings pilot? His actions weren't politically or religiously motivated at all.

So no, that is not a true assertion.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:16 pm
by M564038
There is no connection between those 2.

Antarius wrote:
M564038 wrote:
If the captain did it, he would be the world’s first politically moderate, atheist terrorist.

The Malaysians would love that to be the explanation, but it obviously isn’t.


What about the Germanwings pilot? His actions weren't politically or religiously motivated at all.

So no, that is not a true assertion.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:36 pm
by T54A
Civilian aircraft fly over FJDG all the time. It isn’t a special secret ‘Area 52’.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:46 pm
by Antarius
M564038 wrote:
There is no connection between those 2.

Antarius wrote:
M564038 wrote:
If the captain did it, he would be the world’s first politically moderate, atheist terrorist.

The Malaysians would love that to be the explanation, but it obviously isn’t.


What about the Germanwings pilot? His actions weren't politically or religiously motivated at all.

So no, that is not a true assertion.


I gave you an example of someone who crashed a plane for non-political or religious reasons before MH370.

So your statement is false. No matter whether they are connected or not.

Re: 6 years since MH370: Time for Malaysia to finally admit the truth?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:49 pm
by Antarius
spinotter wrote:
Antarius wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:

I think the Diego Garcia conspiracy is debunked simply by asking Cui Bono? (Who benefits?). The US, UK, Filipinos, etc. wouldn't gain anything meaningful for being complicit in this far fetched conspiracy theory.


It is also debunked as parts of the aircraft washed up in Africa. If it was landed and cut up, the parts wouldn't exist.


Excellent point. I did not give much credit to the idea of Diego Garcia - it was more to hear some details of the Diego Garcia conspiracy theory, especially the motivation. The Atlantic article (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/) was excellent. The author believes that the pilot, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, engineered the whole thing, knew how to evade detection as much as possible, killed everyone else by depressurizing, and northwest of the tip of Sumatra turned southward to fly as far as possble toward the Antarctic before perhaps purposely ditching the 777, which apparently broke totally apart, with parts reaching Reunion etc. Do people agree that this is the most likely scenario?


I dont know about the part about flying purposely towards Antarctica; he could have been or just flying until the aircraft flamed out into the pacific. The timing of turning off the transponder, the maneuvers between airspace etc. are IMO, clear proof that this was not an accident. But what the end goal or destination (if any,) was is speculation.