Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 8494
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:45 pm

Ugh...yet again, we sprang forward for summer time and, unless Congress decides to do something about it, we'll fall back in November.

What do you do to mitigate the effects of DST?

I've never been able to get used to the hour change, no matter which direction it goes (though losing the hour is harder than gaining it). This year, I decided to try a different approach: I set the clocks the night before AND set an alarm on Sunday to wake me up earlier than usual (so I woke up at 6am). Aside from the daylight hours stretching into the evening hours (when it's usually dark in standard time), yesterday was a normal day. Didn't have any negative effects, didn't feel rushed, or anything. All the clocks were in sync so I didn't feel like I had lost an hour. Granted, I think the fact that it was overcast in the Puget Sound area also helped.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3810
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:29 pm

Being a fellow Washingtonian, I am concerned about our state's decision to move the DST year-round (still needs federal approval). While everyone seems to think how wonderful it will be having that later sunset in winter, they fail to realize that in December and January it won't get light until after 8:30 AM so that sucks for us "morning people." Folks need to get a clue that just because you go to DST, doesn't mean you magically add an hour of daylight to the day - you just shift it to the right..........
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11598
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:47 pm

I wish we would actually go back to changing DST at the middle/end of October, and the middle/end of march. Much to dark around 7:00 a.m for my taste right now.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3842
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:04 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Ugh...yet again, we sprang forward for summer time and, unless Congress decides to do something about it, we'll fall back in November.

What do you do to mitigate the effects of DST?

I've never been able to get used to the hour change, no matter which direction it goes (though losing the hour is harder than gaining it). This year, I decided to try a different approach: I set the clocks the night before AND set an alarm on Sunday to wake me up earlier than usual (so I woke up at 6am). Aside from the daylight hours stretching into the evening hours (when it's usually dark in standard time), yesterday was a normal day. Didn't have any negative effects, didn't feel rushed, or anything. All the clocks were in sync so I didn't feel like I had lost an hour. Granted, I think the fact that it was overcast in the Puget Sound area also helped.


Can we change the spring forward back to where it was pre 2007 which was the first Sunday in April. I had been getting used to the sun rise at at least around 7am for a few weeks now and I get up this morning at 6:30 and a I was like ahh f*ck total darkness. I don't mind the switch back in November because I think it is nice to have the later sunset for Halloween.

ER757 wrote:
Being a fellow Washingtonian, I am concerned about our state's decision to move the DST year-round (still needs federal approval). While everyone seems to think how wonderful it will be having that later sunset in winter, they fail to realize that in December and January it won't get light until after 8:30 AM so that sucks for us "morning people." Folks need to get a clue that just because you go to DST, doesn't mean you magically add an hour of daylight to the day - you just shift it to the right..........


Same here, in the Toronto area this would mean at the latest sunrise would be 8:51am in early January, that would drive people nuts.

Furthermore do you really want the sun rising at 4:30am in June? It makes sense at the temperate latitudes, I get the arctic and tropics not doing it but keep it between latitudes 30 and 60 degrees.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 8494
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:38 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Furthermore do you really want the sun rising at 4:30am in June? It makes sense at the temperate latitudes, I get the arctic and tropics not doing it but keep it between latitudes 30 and 60 degrees.

Without springing forward, the sunrise would be a 3:30am in June. So yes, have it rise "later" and give me an "hour" of darkness.

ER757 wrote:
they fail to realize that in December and January it won't get light until after 8:30 AM so that sucks for us "morning people."

I will admit: I do need some sunlight during the day and not just window-sunlight. But full-time folks have flexibility in how early/late they come in. Some companies have strict schedules; mine allows me to pick how I wanna work the hours. I COULD come in later in the day and enjoy the sunlight, but as things are right now, I HAVE to be in by 5:30am so my hands are tied in that sense.

ER757 wrote:
Folks need to get a clue that just because you go to DST, doesn't mean you magically add an hour of daylight to the day - you just shift it to the right..........

It's the sensation. People like to bring up the analogy with the blanket (cut the end and add it to the top to make it longer making it seem longer), but if you are not using the daylight hours early in the morning, then "shifting" the clock makes it seem like you are. The problem is that the reasoning behind it is no longer the case.

Energy conservation...what energy you save with efficient lightbulbs is wasted away if you turn on the AC and leave it on during the night as well. And contrary to popular belief, this does NOT help farmers at all.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LabQuest
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:43 pm

I love having the sun up later in the evenings.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8063
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:53 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:

What do you do to mitigate the effects of DST?


What effects? It’s just a lost hour of sleep. Who cares?

I went to bed Saturday night, and my dog woke me Sunday morning. I had “lost” an hour sleep. So what?

I got on with my day. It was nice here. I did some yard work, went to Kroger, and then watched my daughter play soccer. In short, a pretty normal Sunday in March.

It’s a freaking hour, get over it.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13490
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: DST Again

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:05 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Ugh...yet again, we sprang forward for summer time and, unless Congress decides to do something about it, we'll fall back in November.

What do you do to mitigate the effects of DST?

I've never been able to get used to the hour change, no matter which direction it goes (though losing the hour is harder than gaining it). This year, I decided to try a different approach: I set the clocks the night before AND set an alarm on Sunday to wake me up earlier than usual (so I woke up at 6am). Aside from the daylight hours stretching into the evening hours (when it's usually dark in standard time), yesterday was a normal day. Didn't have any negative effects, didn't feel rushed, or anything. All the clocks were in sync so I didn't feel like I had lost an hour. Granted, I think the fact that it was overcast in the Puget Sound area also helped.


You think you have it bad? Because part of AZ doesn't do DST part of the year I can be PDT and then drive 5 mins into AZ and be on MST an hour later! Now after change the clocks we are the same time! :faint:
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
TLG
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:41 pm

Re: DST Again

Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:20 pm

ER757 wrote:
Folks need to get a clue that just because you go to DST, doesn't mean you magically add an hour of daylight to the day - you just shift it to the right..........


Does anyone actually think that? I don't think so. The idea is to shift the daylight to a more useful time on the clock. In general, DST is more beneficial to northern regions, but totally unnecessary in southern regions.

I have lived in the North my entire life until I moved to Africa recently. I would not like for the time change to go away. While I could do without the time change itself, I do realize the benefits of adjusting the timing of the daylight.

I'm not sure why people make such a big deal out of the time change. I think they're being childish.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22543
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: DST Again

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:45 pm

ER757 wrote:
Being a fellow Washingtonian, I am concerned about our state's decision to move the DST year-round (still needs federal approval). While everyone seems to think how wonderful it will be having that later sunset in winter, they fail to realize that in December and January it won't get light until after 8:30 AM so that sucks for us "morning people." Folks need to get a clue that just because you go to DST, doesn't mean you magically add an hour of daylight to the day - you just shift it to the right..........


I think both Oregon and California approved the same things. This will cause chaos in Nevada and Idaho. Both states have two time zones. One county in Oregon is on Mountain time, so they are an hour ahead. The reasoning, when time zones were set up, Ontario has more in common with Boise than Bend. Or something like that.

I know all of Washington state is on Pacific time, as is the panhandle of Idaho. So, I guess, for part of the year, if you drive east, you will lose an hour but part of the year you will not? There will be this odd enclave of hour difference?

I agree that we just need to stop with the time change.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10620
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: DST Again

Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:33 pm

The shift to DST is the best solution to balance the day time changes over a year and not have the sun rising at a crazy late time during the winter.

I say keep it and there is no REAL reason to change it. Its benefits cost and energy-wise are neutral and it does make the daytime hours better set for the mainstream population and what they do in the day, winter and summer.

The one thing I don't want is to just stay on "standard time" all year. So this is a good solution.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3810
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: DST Again

Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:11 pm

TLG wrote:
ER757 wrote:
Folks need to get a clue that just because you go to DST, doesn't mean you magically add an hour of daylight to the day - you just shift it to the right..........


Does anyone actually think that? I don't think so. The idea is to shift the daylight to a more useful time on the clock. In general, DST is more beneficial to northern regions, but totally unnecessary in southern regions.

I have lived in the North my entire life until I moved to Africa recently. I would not like for the time change to go away. While I could do without the time change itself, I do realize the benefits of adjusting the timing of the daylight.

I'm not sure why people make such a big deal out of the time change. I think they're being childish.

Why is it necessarily more beneficial to have it light an hour later in the winter when in northern latitudes such as where I live in Seattle, it won't be light until almost 9:00 AM during the shorter days of December and January? Is it better for folks to go to work and kids to school in the darkness? I am not a fan - but as I said upthread, I am a "morning person" so I'd better get used to using a headlamp on my Sunday morning hikes if it does become year-round up here
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1486
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: DST Again

Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:36 pm

DST outlived its intent. it was done for farmers, so they could work the fields during daylight hours. How many of us are farmers? I worked from 3:30 am to 1 pm daily for almost 30years. So it didn't really affect me.
Now as a property manager, I have to get things done during the daylight hours. I thought it would be useful, but it's not. It still gets dark way too early in the winter. It seems to me it needs to be tweaked for just one month in Dec each year at least where i live.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 8494
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: DST Again

Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:01 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
it was done for farmers, so they could work the fields during daylight hours.

No it wasn't. They opposed it and still do.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Newark727
Posts: 2036
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: DST Again

Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:14 am

I've saved up all this daylight, really wish there was somewhere I could cash it in.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11221
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: DST Again

Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:40 am

It's one hour. One day a year.

I mean, if it affects you that much, hope you never, ever travel outside your time zone.

Cuz.....damn, man!
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1486
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: DST Again

Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:57 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
it was done for farmers, so they could work the fields during daylight hours.

No it wasn't. They opposed it and still do.


you're so unfriendly, I will never reply to any of your threads again.

for those who want to know the story.
DST started 1966 when I was six years old. It was a big deal, the teachers taught it was to help the farmers. I believed them.

Now I hear that was all propaganda. O.K. if you say so. but, those who were around in 1966 we're told it was to help the farmers, of course, some farmers ended up not liking it because their cows were on a set schedule, they also had a hard time getting their produce and eggs to market. So it ended up not being so great for farmers. Does that change, why it was done? Every time something new is introduced there is going to be a segment of the population that doesn't like change and objects. It all depends on what you're used to.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6093
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: DST Again

Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:35 pm

Actually, it started in Orillia, ON and popularized in WW I Germany.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: DST Again

Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:04 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Actually, it started in Orillia, ON and popularized in WW I Germany.

Not so fast!
It's a bit like who invented the jet engine. Or the television. Several different origins are possible, some related, some totally independent.


In 1895 New Zealand entomologist George Hudson first proposed modern DST. His shift-work job gave him leisure time to collect insects and led him to value after-hours daylight.
English builder and outdoorsman William Willett independently conceived DST in 1905,
Member of parliament Robert Pearce took up Willett's proposal, introducing the first Daylight Saving Bill to the House of Commons on February 12, 1908. However this was not enacted until the middle of WWI, by which point half of Europe had signed up for their own version of DST (On a technicality in 1916 it was Germany that was the first mover as such, but only by a matter of weeks)

On a smaller scale, Port Arthur, Ontario, Canada was the first city in the world to enact DST, on July 1, 1908. This was followed by Orillia, Ontario.

Who gets the credit? That probably depends on your own nationality.
GF gets a free pass because he isn't Canadian or German, and like him I'm really not that bothered.

p.s. Germany didn't really "popularize" it because after three years and with the war over it dropped DST for a couple of decades
Meanwhile the UK are possibly the only nation that has maintained DST continuously since introducing it as a temporary measure in 1916.
Hell, they even went one stage further with brief periods of Double Summer Time (BDST i.e. + 2h00) :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
User avatar
aeromoe
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:34 am

Re: DST Again

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:12 am

seb146 wrote:

I know all of Washington state is on Pacific time, as is the panhandle of Idaho. So, I guess, for part of the year, if you drive east, you will lose an hour but part of the year you will not? There will be this odd enclave of hour difference?


Have you ever seen Australia's time zone map? I didn't give it much thought until my daughter married an Australia in 2016 and we made our first trip there to meet her new in-laws. Talk about a fun time zone map. Add in Daylight Saving Time and the fact there is only a :30 minute difference in part of the country and only some of the country observe Daylight Saving Time = REALLY FUN time zone map.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=1BC88E6C45D83557EA18D0C9828209BF9DD123CC&thid=OIP.iQfbwwXD0Z30BZ3HT1y4KQHaDz&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmathspace-production-media.mathspace.co%2Fmedia%2Fupload%2Fimages%2F5-Time%2Faustralia-st-dst.png&exph=257&expw=501&q=australia+time+zone+map&selectedindex=76&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=0,1,2,3,4,6,8,10
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
Iloveboeing
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 am

Re: DST Again

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:28 am

casinterest wrote:
I wish we would actually go back to changing DST at the middle/end of October, and the middle/end of march. Much to dark around 7:00 a.m for my taste right now.


Well, when the US changed back in 2007/2008, Europe didn’t go along with us. Canada and Mexico did because it would wreak havoc on international commerce if they didn’t go along.

I personally think that we should have one time year round with no changes. China is one time zone and they don’t do DST.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: DST Again

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:23 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I wish we would actually go back to changing DST at the middle/end of October, and the middle/end of march. Much to dark around 7:00 a.m for my taste right now.


Well, when the US changed back in 2007/2008, Europe didn’t go along with us. Canada and Mexico did because it would wreak havoc on international commerce if they didn’t go along.

I personally think that we should have one time year round with no changes. China is one time zone and they don’t do DST.


We should just stay on Standard time. The days naturally get longer in the summer and it’s a pain after the change to DST getting up in the dark. The body just doesn’t work that way. It is always easier to go to sleep as it gets darker and wake up in the light, even if the sun comes up at 4:00 as it would around here. As you note, different countries change at different times making it even more annoying. I’d rather have the daylight in the morning this time of year so I can see where I’m going on the bike. If they want to change, just do it from June through August. The rest of the year, standard time is better.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Re: DST Again

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:50 am

DL717 wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I wish we would actually go back to changing DST at the middle/end of October, and the middle/end of march. Much to dark around 7:00 a.m for my taste right now.


Well, when the US changed back in 2007/2008, Europe didn’t go along with us. Canada and Mexico did because it would wreak havoc on international commerce if they didn’t go along.

I personally think that we should have one time year round with no changes. China is one time zone and they don’t do DST.


We should just stay on Standard time. The days naturally get longer in the summer and it’s a pain after the change to DST getting up in the dark. The body just doesn’t work that way. It is always easier to go to sleep as it gets darker and wake up in the light, even if the sun comes up at 4:00 as it would around here. As you note, different countries change at different times making it even more annoying. I’d rather have the daylight in the morning this time of year so I can see where I’m going on the bike. If they want to change, just do it from June through August. The rest of the year, standard time is better.


Well, being elderly I can understand your need to bicycle during the morning. Most elderly people wake up early and go to bed at, what most people would call, dinner time. So yes, it would be beneficial to the aged to have DST stay the same during the year.
 
User avatar
WesternDC6B
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: DST Again

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:13 pm

Let me add to the chaos: how about just going 0:30 ahead of the present Standard Time? Lots of places in the world have a +0:30 time zone. Newfoundland is an example. Except for the northernmost regions, the darkness carrying late into the morning problem will be more or less corrected.
“Pedantic” defined: spelling “pedantic” “pædantic”.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: DST Again

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:32 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:

Well, when the US changed back in 2007/2008, Europe didn’t go along with us. Canada and Mexico did because it would wreak havoc on international commerce if they didn’t go along.

I personally think that we should have one time year round with no changes. China is one time zone and they don’t do DST.


We should just stay on Standard time. The days naturally get longer in the summer and it’s a pain after the change to DST getting up in the dark. The body just doesn’t work that way. It is always easier to go to sleep as it gets darker and wake up in the light, even if the sun comes up at 4:00 as it would around here. As you note, different countries change at different times making it even more annoying. I’d rather have the daylight in the morning this time of year so I can see where I’m going on the bike. If they want to change, just do it from June through August. The rest of the year, standard time is better.


Well, being elderly I can understand your need to bicycle during the morning. Most elderly people wake up early and go to bed at, what most people would call, dinner time. So yes, it would be beneficial to the aged to have DST stay the same during the year.


“Elderly”. Wanna race? Christ. I’m only hitting 60 this summer. I can probably keep your wife happy too. :rotfl:
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Badstig, cpd, Google [Bot], IH8BY, johns624, qf789 and 56 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos