GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:05 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

China is meeting its Copenhagen goals, even before Corona, and on track to keep its Paris goals years early. So i don´t think so.

China is at 6t CO2 per Capita, the US is at 17t CO2 per Capita. I really don´t think so......

best regards
Thomas


So twice that of the US then.


no, 1/3... a Chines prisoner has the exact same CO2 allowance than a US citizen.

best regards
Thomas


Does the US citizen want to live like a Chinese citizen to say nothing of the prisoner? I doubt it which why the argument is silly
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:22 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

So twice that of the US then.


no, 1/3... a Chines prisoner has the exact same CO2 allowance than a US citizen.

best regards
Thomas


Does the US citizen want to live like a Chinese citizen to say nothing of the prisoner? I doubt it which why the argument is silly


What relevance does it have what the US citizen wants in this context? As long as you don´t reduce your CO2 output by 2/3, bringing up the Chinese is just laughable.

Guess what... Chinese don´t want to live like Chinese, they want to live like US citizens. Unless you show them that can be done with less CO2, you can start complaining after China trippled its CO2 output per Capita, until then: get your own house in order.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:21 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The arrogance of 'it can't happen here' as to a pandemic has been shattered around the world and yes, it includes the PRC.


Bingo. This is why we need a "like" button.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:27 pm

What relevance does the Chinese have to the American? None in either direction. Our “house” is in order and doesn’t need to be laid low to Chinese standards. Germany is at 9t vs. 16t US, I don’t want to live like Germans, either. It would take a massive change in lifestyle.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:40 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What relevance does the Chinese have to the American?


We share the same planet with them and everybody else.

But good that we have figured out who to sanction over climate change...... the USA. But soon you have a sane government again, and then you will drop your CO2/Capita.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:02 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What relevance does the Chinese have to the American?


We share the same planet with them and everybody else.

But good that we have figured out who to sanction over climate change...... the USA. But soon you have a sane government again, and then you will drop your CO2/Capita.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What relevance does the Chinese have to the American?


We share the same planet with them and everybody else.

But good that we have figured out who to sanction over climate change...... the USA. But soon you have a sane government again, and then you will drop your CO2/Capita.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.


I detect a consistent anti-science attitude in these posts - did you have a mean HS science teacher or something? Science is the reason we have everything we use and depend on now.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

We share the same planet with them and everybody else.

But good that we have figured out who to sanction over climate change...... the USA. But soon you have a sane government again, and then you will drop your CO2/Capita.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.


I detect a consistent anti-science attitude in these posts - did you have a mean HS science teacher or something? Science is the reason we have everything we use and depend on now.


No anti science, just that its very tiresome in the current crisis that would kill millions, is not caused by climate change, we have been distracted from the real issues, thats all.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:38 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.


I detect a consistent anti-science attitude in these posts - did you have a mean HS science teacher or something? Science is the reason we have everything we use and depend on now.


No anti science, just that its very tiresome in the current crisis that would kill millions, is not caused by climate change, we have been distracted from the real issues, thats all.


OK well, again, one crisis fought and resolved does not mean the ongoing threat elsewhere doesn’t exist. If you plan on living in Florida awhile you ought to pay attention. And that’s before we get i to the loss of insects, changing rain shadows in the tropics already affecting fruit and coffee...and lots of other impacts coming down the pike.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:43 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What relevance does the Chinese have to the American?


We share the same planet with them and everybody else.

But good that we have figured out who to sanction over climate change...... the USA. But soon you have a sane government again, and then you will drop your CO2/Capita.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.


Newsflash: yours isn't going down. The methane emissions from fracking have conveniently been forgotten in your data.
You can double the CO2eq from burning fracking gas, and are essentially back to burning coal CO2 wise...

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6398/186

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.


Covid-19 isn't a thread to humanity. It can only kill a lot of people, wreck the economy and that's it.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.


Nah, the not delusional still understand that climate change is an existential threat, while covid-19 is an inconvenience in comparison.

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

We share the same planet with them and everybody else.

But good that we have figured out who to sanction over climate change...... the USA. But soon you have a sane government again, and then you will drop your CO2/Capita.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.


I detect a consistent anti-science attitude in these posts - did you have a mean HS science teacher or something? Science is the reason we have everything we use and depend on now.


Edgy as some are I am thinking more about their stock portfolio looking bad...

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes the obsession with CO2 per capita, been going down over the years whereas China isnt.

Why are we even talking about climate change, hasnt this crisis been clear whats the REAL threat to humanity and from WHERE it comes.

I hope this climate change histeria ends with this coronavirus crisis, been focusing on the wrong things for far too long.


I detect a consistent anti-science attitude in these posts - did you have a mean HS science teacher or something? Science is the reason we have everything we use and depend on now.


No anti science, just that its very tiresome in the current crisis that would kill millions, is not caused by climate change, we have been distracted from the real issues, thats all.


Dude, if you still don't get that climate change is an existential threat to pretty much all life on this rock, you are either anti-science or unable to understand it. The evidence is so crushingly overwhelming that such ignorance needs some new words to appropriately describe it.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:04 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

Covid-19 isn't a thread to humanity. It can only kill a lot of people, wreck the economy and that's it.


Right so millions dying and the economy being destroyed arent those some of the things climate change ‘threatens’?

Oh please spare me your concern for just one subject that has killed zero people whereas one like the one we are ALL experiencing is killing many. You folks want to force an agenda thats not a “real” threat to anyone and it still need to prove it would be “sometime” in the future.

You ought to be happy thar carbon emissions will go down this year because of coronavirus.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I detect a consistent anti-science attitude in these posts - did you have a mean HS science teacher or something? Science is the reason we have everything we use and depend on now.


No anti science, just that its very tiresome in the current crisis that would kill millions, is not caused by climate change, we have been distracted from the real issues, thats all.


OK well, again, one crisis fought and resolved does not mean the ongoing threat elsewhere doesn’t exist. If you plan on living in Florida awhile you ought to pay attention. And that’s before we get i to the loss of insects, changing rain shadows in the tropics already affecting fruit and coffee...and lots of other impacts coming down the pike.


Guess who is not concerned, the one who signed the Paris agreement, bought a home in Marthas Vineyard. Why would he ever spend millions buying a home there if its to get flooded?

BTW, by this time Al Gore said Southern Florida would be flooded, I think he said 2014.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:36 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

No anti science, just that its very tiresome in the current crisis that would kill millions, is not caused by climate change, we have been distracted from the real issues, thats all.


OK well, again, one crisis fought and resolved does not mean the ongoing threat elsewhere doesn’t exist. If you plan on living in Florida awhile you ought to pay attention. And that’s before we get i to the loss of insects, changing rain shadows in the tropics already affecting fruit and coffee...and lots of other impacts coming down the pike.


Guess who is not concerned, the one who signed the Paris agreement, bought a home in Marthas Vineyard. Why would he ever spend millions buying a home there if its to get flooded?

BTW, by this time Al Gore said Southern Florida would be flooded, I think he said 2014.


That is quite possibly the most ridiculous answer - nobody even mentioned 44, and he is not relevant to my examples of FL coastline and other issues. I’ll make this easy for you: do you know more than the scientists who track satellite data for decades, have drilled into Arctic permafrost, and compile crop potentials for agribusiness? You cannot just decide something isn’t true because of feelz - that’s rejecting science.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

OK well, again, one crisis fought and resolved does not mean the ongoing threat elsewhere doesn’t exist. If you plan on living in Florida awhile you ought to pay attention. And that’s before we get i to the loss of insects, changing rain shadows in the tropics already affecting fruit and coffee...and lots of other impacts coming down the pike.


Guess who is not concerned, the one who signed the Paris agreement, bought a home in Marthas Vineyard. Why would he ever spend millions buying a home there if its to get flooded?

BTW, by this time Al Gore said Southern Florida would be flooded, I think he said 2014.


That is quite possibly the most ridiculous answer - nobody even mentioned 44, and he is not relevant to my examples of FL coastline and other issues. I’ll make this easy for you: do you know more than the scientists who track satellite data for decades, have drilled into Arctic permafrost, and compile crop potentials for agribusiness? You cannot just decide something isn’t true because of feelz - that’s rejecting science.


Of course is relevant, you are telling me I should be concerned if I were to live in Florida. 44 bought a multi-million dollar home in MVY, he was a proponent and signed the Paris accords. To me it may seem that he isn't at all concerned or perhaps is not jumping into the climate alarmists that's being propagated by the left and its propaganda machine.

Yes I believe the climate is changing, how much of it its man-mande and how much of it is just the climate changing I don't know. The experts been wrong many times before, sorry if I can't just buy all of it just because all of you are telling me I should believe.

I don't get into peoples beliefs on religion or morality... yet the left wants to force me to believe in something just because science says so. If you think I am stupid, ok fine, look back at the many predictions and see why there are still many skeptics.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Guess who is not concerned, the one who signed the Paris agreement, bought a home in Marthas Vineyard. Why would he ever spend millions buying a home there if its to get flooded?

BTW, by this time Al Gore said Southern Florida would be flooded, I think he said 2014.


That is quite possibly the most ridiculous answer - nobody even mentioned 44, and he is not relevant to my examples of FL coastline and other issues. I’ll make this easy for you: do you know more than the scientists who track satellite data for decades, have drilled into Arctic permafrost, and compile crop potentials for agribusiness? You cannot just decide something isn’t true because of feelz - that’s rejecting science.


Of course is relevant, you are telling me I should be concerned if I were to live in Florida. 44 bought a multi-million dollar home in MVY, he was a proponent and signed the Paris accords. To me it may seem that he isn't at all concerned or perhaps is not jumping into the climate alarmists that's being propagated by the left and its propaganda machine.

Yes I believe the climate is changing, how much of it its man-mande and how much of it is just the climate changing I don't know. The experts been wrong many times before, sorry if I can't just buy all of it just because all of you are telling me I should believe.

I don't get into peoples beliefs on religion or morality... yet the left wants to force me to believe in something just because science says so. If you think I am stupid, ok fine, look back at the many predictions and see why there are still many skeptics.


Zero understanding of the scientific method. Yes, some predictions have been wrong - that doesn’t invalidate the context or the system in which they are made.

I’ll make this simple for you. We are in chemistry class - the teacher is going to make magnesium sparks. We both know there will be tendrils of spark, that will go out in all directions when the flame is applied. I predict there will be 32 sparks, you predict 40, and we’ll use a slow-mo camera to verify after the test. We are both wrong and there were actually 236 spark filaments when all is said and done. Does that mean nothing happened, because all our predictions were wrong?
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Guess who is not concerned, the one who signed the Paris agreement, bought a home in Marthas Vineyard. Why would he ever spend millions buying a home there if its to get flooded?

BTW, by this time Al Gore said Southern Florida would be flooded, I think he said 2014.


That is quite possibly the most ridiculous answer - nobody even mentioned 44, and he is not relevant to my examples of FL coastline and other issues. I’ll make this easy for you: do you know more than the scientists who track satellite data for decades, have drilled into Arctic permafrost, and compile crop potentials for agribusiness? You cannot just decide something isn’t true because of feelz - that’s rejecting science.


Of course is relevant, you are telling me I should be concerned if I were to live in Florida. 44 bought a multi-million dollar home in MVY, he was a proponent and signed the Paris accords. To me it may seem that he isn't at all concerned or perhaps is not jumping into the climate alarmists that's being propagated by the left and its propaganda machine.

Yes I believe the climate is changing, how much of it its man-mande and how much of it is just the climate changing I don't know. The experts been wrong many times before, sorry if I can't just buy all of it just because all of you are telling me I should believe.

I don't get into peoples beliefs on religion or morality... yet the left wants to force me to believe in something just because science says so. If you think I am stupid, ok fine, look back at the many predictions and see why there are still many skeptics.


Science shows several things. That is not up for debate. Scientific record keeping shows the average temperature of the Earth has been rising faster through the 20th Century than before. The numbers are there. Science also shows a warmer atmosphere causes ice to melt. That melted ice (water) needs somewhere to go. That place is oceans. The oceans are not just suddenly going to get deeper. That's science. If you choose not to believe facts laid out before you, that is on you, not "the left forcing" you to do anything.

It sounds like you believe "the left" is telling scientists what to say. Or some kind of conspiracy theory about "the left" putting some opinions out there you do not want to hear. I believe it was Stephen Colbert who said "reality has a liberal bias".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:59 am

stratosphere wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

It pains to say it, but I think Baby-Boomers are the most to blame.
They voted themselves lavish benefits and stuck the bill to future generations. They are the ones that control most businesses. They are the ones that dominate politics (average age of Congress is like 58 years, https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/b8f6293e ... f8e809.pdf). They are the ones that have made all the disastrous decisions since the early 90's.
And it is not just the US. Japan is run by the same clique of old men who decide what's best for them. Guess what it got Japan: decades of stagnation.

It is high time that the Old White Men who apparently ru(i)n everything make way for a newer, younger generation that hopefully will do a better job.


I second this.


LOL says the party who is about to nominate an old white man who clearly has dementia and loves to sniff hair especially on kids.


Bernie, Biden, Trump. Neither of them (or is it none of them?) would be my preferred candidate.
 
Arion640
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:12 am

In answer to the thread question. No, it’s just one of those things and I don’t believe it’s something we could of seen coming.
1973-2020
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:03 am

Arion640 wrote:
In answer to the thread question. No, it’s just one of those things and I don’t believe it’s something we could of seen coming.


:checkmark:
I am not sure if i ever agreed with you before on anything, but here i do.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
Arion640
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:07 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
In answer to the thread question. No, it’s just one of those things and I don’t believe it’s something we could of seen coming.


:checkmark:
I am not sure if i ever agreed with you before on anything, but here i do.

best regards
Thomas


Thank you sir.
1973-2020
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:05 pm

This reminds me of a definition that struck me of what a great intellectual is. It is someone who sees what is happening now, but sees it five years before anyone else. In the case of this pandemic there is a parallel - China held of seeing what was happening about 6 weeks too late. The US, even with all that warning, was about 6 weeks late. Had we got half as alarmed 4 weeks ago we would be looking at the beginning of having it under control (not solved) about now - and for a tenth of the cost.

In my life I have only personally known one public intellectual. Experiencing someone who really knows what is happening early on a large scale is profoundly affecting. My life goal has been to see what is happening now. It is an anxiety producing goal - my kids joke I should read and think less.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Sokes
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Re: Is the developed western world paying the price for arrogance?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:31 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
This reminds me of a definition that struck me of what a great intellectual is. It is someone who sees what is happening now, but sees it five years before anyone else.
...
In my life I have only personally known one public intellectual. Experiencing someone who really knows what is happening early on a large scale is profoundly affecting. My life goal has been to see what is happening now. It is an anxiety producing goal - my kids joke I should read and think less.


Did your friend predict Corona five years ago?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?

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