caliboy93
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Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:23 am

So Biden is clearly more establishment unlike Bernie being very fringe left, so naturally Biden can attract more voters - he's pretty much guaranteed at this point to be the Democrat nominee - but can he win the 2020 election and defeat Trump? At this point, what are his odds?
 
KFTG
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:35 am

Yes.
 
caliboy93
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:57 am

KFTG wrote:
Yes.


Why do you say so?
 
KFTG
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:54 am

I can count.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:31 am

I'd say he can beat Trump as well.
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Aesma
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:11 am

Trump is as fringe as you can get so I don't understand your implied argument about Bernie.
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:15 am

Aesma wrote:
Trump is as fringe as you can get so I don't understand your implied argument about Bernie.



Not really by American standards. Unfortunately. If anything, his VP is far more fringe than actual trump.




I do think Biden can win. Current events will cloud anyone's ability to properly analyze that question though. The rapidly evolving nature of all that makes this sort of guesswork anything but clear.
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stratosphere
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:00 pm

Amazes me the Biden is the best the Democrats can put out there,,,He is total establishment been in DC for 40 years. He is a gaff machine to no end and if anyone can't see he has dementia you're blind. Cracks me up the party of we can't have old white men running this country is going to have an old white man as it's nominee...I know he will most likely nominate a black female as his running mate cuz identity politics is where the democrats are at but that is another topic for another day.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:34 pm

caliboy93 wrote:
So Biden is clearly more establishment unlike Bernie being very fringe left, so naturally Biden can attract more voters - he's pretty much guaranteed at this point to be the Democrat nominee - but can he win the 2020 election and defeat Trump? At this point, what are his odds?


I don't agree with the fact that Biden can attract more voters, he can attract more registered democrats which is why he won this primary. I think Bernie still polls better with independents and moderate conservatives who are more blue collar (like the union guy that Biden yelled at) favour Bernie.

I think his odds are decent as he has one thing going for him that Hillary didn't. He is likable and will fight back when attacked which a lot of people like that about him.

If they go after Hunter which the GOP will, I can see Biden throwing the same Nepotism right back in Trump's face.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:42 pm

The #NeverTrump Republicans were mostly old-fashioned Reagan Republicans who didn’t trust Trump to actually be a conservative and mostly, he isn’t. He isn’t Regan, he isn’t Goldwater, he isn’t even a Bush Republican. He has been a Democrat, a friend of many Democrats (cough, cough, the Clintons) and hasn’t a big conservative agenda. Taxes, trimming regulations, and court appointments, the rest a big nothingburger.
 
mham001
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:12 pm

If we don't see bodies stacked in the street between now and November, it will be Trump's to lose. Despite all the shrieking, he has not done a bad job and looks to be doing better. In times of crisis, voters are less likely to change leadership.
Then there is the question of whether Bernie supporters will show up to vote.
 
Okie
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:44 pm

When I went to vote on the primary ticket for democratic party, I thought I was looking at a contest for the largest cognitive disorder. :biggrin:


Okie
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:58 pm

mham001 wrote:
In times of crisis, voters are less likely to change leadership.

I'm guessing that's why Obama won and McCain lost in 2008? GOP leadership trying to contain the financial crisis and two wars...seems like McCain should have been elected then.

The biggest thing Trump had to show for his years was the economy. With a contraction possibly in the books for this quarter, and the market essentially wiping out the gains under him, what does he have left?

Coronavirus response? Sure...after spending all of January and February saying it's a hoax and we won't have more cases.
Giving everyone a check? I thought he was against socialism.
Federal judges? Sure. Chuck, John, and Nancy from the mine, factory, and farm are thrilled to be in bankruptcy so long as there is a conservative judge everywhere.
He's not a Democrat? How did a similar line work for Clinton (she's not Trump)?

If Trump had given this the attention it deserved in the initial stages, today we'd be looking at a different scenario (perhaps a lot of the population would have been tested and healthcare workers would not be so overwhelmed). I'd say if the captain of a ship steers us into an iceberg (after saying there are no icebergs to worry about), throw him in the brig and let someone else manage the ship.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:08 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
mham001 wrote:
In times of crisis, voters are less likely to change leadership.

I'm guessing that's why Obama won and McCain lost in 2008? GOP leadership trying to contain the financial crisis and two wars...seems like McCain should have been elected then.

The biggest thing Trump had to show for his years was the economy. With a contraction possibly in the books for this quarter, and the market essentially wiping out the gains under him, what does he have left?

Coronavirus response? Sure...after spending all of January and February saying it's a hoax and we won't have more cases.
Giving everyone a check? I thought he was against socialism.
Federal judges? Sure. Chuck, John, and Nancy from the mine, factory, and farm are thrilled to be in bankruptcy so long as there is a conservative judge everywhere.
He's not a Democrat? How did a similar line work for Clinton (she's not Trump)?

If Trump had given this the attention it deserved in the initial stages, today we'd be looking at a different scenario (perhaps a lot of the population would have been tested and healthcare workers would not be so overwhelmed). I'd say if the captain of a ship steers us into an iceberg (after saying there are no icebergs to worry about), throw him in the brig and let someone else manage the ship.


You are right, if things get worse he will be voted out of office. Now, there is a loooong way till November. If he turns this around (which isn't his fault and voters know that), he might just get easily reelected. Despite the huge blunders and mistakes he has done and looks to be rectifying.

Right now we don't exactly know what will happen. But for sure Biden saying he opposed the Chinese and European travel ban might be used against him come November, to make him look weak. And in times like these when the enemy seems to come from a foreign country in this case a virus from China, Trump looks strong. Added to which he has been the most vocal president against China ever, really.

So lets see. I honestly hope he succeeds at turning this around, I am sure you too because if the entire economy collapses, no matter what job you have, or how much money you got in the bank, it will take a huge hit on you for ever. If he doesn't, then I am sure voters will take him out in November in a landslide.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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johns624
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 pm

caliboy93 wrote:
So Biden is clearly more establishment unlike Bernie being very fringe left, so naturally Biden can attract more voters - he's pretty much guaranteed at this point to be the Democrat nominee - but can he win the 2020 election and defeat Trump? At this point, what are his odds?
What is YOUR opinion? You constantly ask questions of others but never give your views.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:14 pm

I want Biden to win but if I'm being honest nothing about him excites or inspires me what so ever. He's just a box to check at this point. I feel no passion about him at all. It will once again be a vote against Trump if anything.

At this point its Trump's to lose and I don't really see that happening unless this Covid mess is still going on in November.
Last edited by LabQuest on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:15 pm

Difficult to say with Biden.

As long as Trump takes care of the poor directly and not fall for trickle-down economics by doling out $Trillions to corporations, he will do fine.

There is enough Ready Mix Dirt on Joe, primary candidates gathered. So Corona handling is the only issue he can run on.

Trump has no position on any issue, he can flip flop his way to wiggle out of this pandemic.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:27 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
If he turns this around (which isn't his fault and voters know that), he might just get easily reelected. Despite the huge blunders and mistakes he has done and looks to be rectifying.

IF (and that's a big IF) he turns it around, he'll still have to contend with how sloppy his response was. Not only that, but to this day, he's more concerned with keeping the markets happy than he is with enabling a full response (calling out governors and saying that they essentially have to fend for themselves? That works for New York which will likely not vote for him...not so much for Michigan whose EC votes he needs).

Democrats will counter with items like:
1. We warned you how Trump cannot govern efficiently. Do you want to give him a second chance?
2. While we should be glad the death toll isn't higher, imagine how much lower it would have been with a proper response? Imagine how worse it would have been if the virus had been more lethal?
3. If you were close to retiring, your gains were wiped out. Do you want to gamble your savings again?
4. Remember when (governor) asked for federal support and Trump ignored the requests because it was not worrying him?

IF he attends the debates, he'll still be forced to defend his handling, and I can bet Biden and Sanders will make it a point not just to criticize him but to explain how more urgency would have likely made a difference.

Heck, the media has noted that Trump's tone is more somber. I don't know about you but that's the tone of someone who is being forced to admit a big mistake.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
VSMUT
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:40 pm

Just my observation as a European, but he doesn't seem like a particularly strong candidate. His ability to defeat Trump will be decided by how much or if Trump screws up enough prior to the elections, not by the strengths of Biden.
 
anrec80
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:46 pm

Okie wrote:
When I went to vote on the primary ticket for democratic party, I thought I was looking at a contest for the largest cognitive disorder. :biggrin:


Okie


Truly sad. And even if Biden wins, it will be great if by the time he gets to the office he remembers what exactly election he won.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:52 pm

LabQuest wrote:
I want Biden to win but if I'm being honest nothing about him excites or inspires me what so ever. He's just a box to check at this point. I feel no passion about him at all. It will once again be a vote against Trump if anything.

At this point its Trump's to lose and I don't really see that happening unless this Covid mess is still going on in November.

Boring and normal sounds awesome right about now.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:13 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
I want Biden to win but if I'm being honest nothing about him excites or inspires me what so ever. He's just a box to check at this point. I feel no passion about him at all. It will once again be a vote against Trump if anything.

At this point its Trump's to lose and I don't really see that happening unless this Covid mess is still going on in November.

Boring and normal sounds awesome right about now.


Enough voters will go for the nice Grandfather in Biden instead of the 'crazy' one that Trump has been in office. Biden makes some dumb gaffs but he will be seen as a moderate vs. Trump. Many will also not be as into the racism, anti-immigrant, anti-abortion and other issues as the economic major recession hits from COVID-19 and health affects continue into the campaign and election period. Biden will be a better campaigner than HRC was and for sure he has a better public personality that her. I also see so-called 'independent' voters shifting from Trump to Biden. It will likely be a tight election, coming down to a few states but ones like WI, MI & PA that Trump won to get the EC vote likely to shift to Biden.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:00 pm

Biden's gonna do a twofr: black female, probably Stacey Abrams. Trump's only chance would be to shitcan Pence and take on Nikki Haley. She's got the stain of being on Boeing's BoD, but running with Pence is a sure loser.
 
BN747
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:09 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Biden's gonna do a twofr: black female, probably Stacey Abrams. Trump's only chance would be to shitcan Pence and take on Nikki Haley. She's got the stain of being on Boeing's BoD, but running with Pence is a sure loser.


That is exactly right!

If Biden picks Abrams that equals strong female support across the board. Abrams knows how to energize the base like she breathes air, she can do it in her sleep.
If Biden picks Kamala (as I think he will...the safe bet in his mind) female support will not be anywhere near as strong and the base will not be energized.

trump will dump Pence,1) you can tell how he handed Pence the Corona Task Force - lasted about a day. Now he will not let Pence & crew speak alone- He ALWAYS steps in to ring up face time.
That is pure ego - he cannot fathom how much better Pence looks than he does on camera and speaking 'coherenytly"!

2)If he picks Haley, it'll split the White women vote right down the middle...and a Harris pick by Biden could cost him big.

Abrams delivers the numbers, Harris cannot. Klobuchar & Warren, only Warren can generate high base excitement, Klobuchar so-so Black voters will support Biden on those choice but nowhere near as mush fervor as Abrams will bring.

That's all if the Corona body count IS NOT astronomical and an unemployment remains low (which, judging by what I am seeing in my neck of the woods...workers are being let go like no tomorrow) and this next 30 days is going be horrible for many working class people.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
NIKV69
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:22 pm

Aesma wrote:
Trump is as fringe as you can get so I don't understand your implied argument about Bernie.


People that make this statement deny reality. If you know anything about Donald Trump he was a moderate Democrat his whole life.

To answer the OP, No the country will not elect Biden.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:46 pm

It will be Trump vs Biden's VP. Biden mentally checked out many years ago.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:02 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
mham001 wrote:
In times of crisis, voters are less likely to change leadership.

I'm guessing that's why Obama won and McCain lost in 2008? GOP leadership trying to contain the financial crisis and two wars...seems like McCain should have been elected then.


I think Obama won in part because the electorate was fed up with the status quo. Not to mention Obama was a brilliant speaker and energized millions of people. Remember the large crowds in that baseball (football?) stadium?
 
BN747
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:13 am

casinterest wrote:
Trump is already checked out. His Greatest Economy is gone, all he has are religious wingnuts clinging to Pence in hopes of more Sharia law judges. Trump can't compete with a strong democratic ticket after failing the market, education and healthcare.


According to Mr. Republican (the definition of the term crystallized) himself, you 100% correct!

Image

Like he said, the destruction and insanity will be injected by the Christian nuts...who think they can govern with Jesus behind them.
I kinda hope they get their wish..because were Jesus real? He'd reject every single one of them (his 'teachings' speak of who's right and who's not - leaving all 99% of American Christians behind for the guy who picks up his leftovers & rejects.

But Mr. Republican knew them and he knew them very well...they've just gotten worse since his day.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:43 am

BN747 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Biden's gonna do a twofr: black female, probably Stacey Abrams. Trump's only chance would be to shitcan Pence and take on Nikki Haley. She's got the stain of being on Boeing's BoD, but running with Pence is a sure loser.


That is exactly right!

If Biden picks Abrams that equals strong female support across the board. Abrams knows how to energize the base like she breathes air, she can do it in her sleep.
If Biden picks Kamala (as I think he will...the safe bet in his mind) female support will not be anywhere near as strong and the base will not be energized.

trump will dump Pence,1) you can tell how he handed Pence the Corona Task Force - lasted about a day. Now he will not let Pence & crew speak alone- He ALWAYS steps in to ring up face time.
That is pure ego - he cannot fathom how much better Pence looks than he does on camera and speaking 'coherenytly"!

2)If he picks Haley, it'll split the White women vote right down the middle...and a Harris pick by Biden could cost him big.

Abrams delivers the numbers, Harris cannot. Klobuchar & Warren, only Warren can generate high base excitement, Klobuchar so-so Black voters will support Biden on those choice but nowhere near as mush fervor as Abrams will bring.

That's all if the Corona body count IS NOT astronomical and an unemployment remains low (which, judging by what I am seeing in my neck of the woods...workers are being let go like no tomorrow) and this next 30 days is going be horrible for many working class people.

BN747


So what happened to meme that America is a sexist, racist mess? From the Democratic bleating here, I’d have thought Abrams would be a certain loss.
 
BN747
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:42 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Biden's gonna do a twofr: black female, probably Stacey Abrams. Trump's only chance would be to shitcan Pence and take on Nikki Haley. She's got the stain of being on Boeing's BoD, but running with Pence is a sure loser.


That is exactly right!

If Biden picks Abrams that equals strong female support across the board. Abrams knows how to energize the base like she breathes air, she can do it in her sleep.
If Biden picks Kamala (as I think he will...the safe bet in his mind) female support will not be anywhere near as strong and the base will not be energized.

trump will dump Pence,1) you can tell how he handed Pence the Corona Task Force - lasted about a day. Now he will not let Pence & crew speak alone- He ALWAYS steps in to ring up face time.
That is pure ego - he cannot fathom how much better Pence looks than he does on camera and speaking 'coherenytly"!

2)If he picks Haley, it'll split the White women vote right down the middle...and a Harris pick by Biden could cost him big.

Abrams delivers the numbers, Harris cannot. Klobuchar & Warren, only Warren can generate high base excitement, Klobuchar so-so Black voters will support Biden on those choice but nowhere near as mush fervor as Abrams will bring.

That's all if the Corona body count IS NOT astronomical and an unemployment remains low (which, judging by what I am seeing in my neck of the woods...workers are being let go like no tomorrow) and this next 30 days is going be horrible for many working class people.

BN747


So what happened to meme that America is a sexist, racist mess?

They are indeed among the Non-Racist and Non-Sexist (and in large numbers). Just who do you think is fueling trump Support?...it's just that MOST Americans (3 mil more in 2016 & 9 mil more in 2018) are NOT like the sexist, racist elements that you've convinced yourself do not exist.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
From the Democratic bleating here, I’d have thought Abrams would be a certain loss.


..and in the minds of the conservative/racist persuasion .. that is exactly what Abrams is. Trip over some non-Fox periodically, you'll find she's quite popular in non-racist circles.
And instead of being distracted by Abrams, her sex, her skin color...the operative term used above describing her best attribute - an energizer... above those things that annoy 'the trump Supporters' - but of course, they don't wish to see beyond their limitations.

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:57 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Biden's gonna do a twofr: black female, probably Stacey Abrams. Trump's only chance would be to shitcan Pence and take on Nikki Haley. She's got the stain of being on Boeing's BoD, but running with Pence is a sure loser.


If the GOP wants to keep the holy trifecta, they’d replace the incumbent with Haley - she would have broad appeal with both independents and suburban women who have changed registration from GOP to independent/Dem.

Outside his knuckledragging/Fox grifter base, 45 will be remembered by intelligent Americans only for wasted opportunities and lack of leadership in time of crisis. The Biden campaign will run repeated ad video of Trump downplaying COVID-19 for 2 months and today’s terrible line excusing the rich getting front of the line on testing as an inevitability. An excellent summation here by Never Trump GOPer Tim Miller:

For months, Trump focused only on how the virus impacted him and his sense of self-worth as manifested in the polls and the stock market. He downplayed it, told the public that everything was fine, that they should go to work, that he had things under control.

And then when he finally began to recognize that the virus wasn’t just going to disappear, his press events became centered on a parade of validators telling the nation how wonderful and perfect their president is.

On Monday the severity of the crisis finally seemed to sink in for Trump. And for the first time, seven weeks in, he attempted to make a call for sacrifice. Looking down at a piece of paper, without his trademark bravado, a monotoned president made this ask...

...If you eat your peas, you’ll get one “big celebration” at the end.

A call to arms or higher purpose this was not.


https://thebulwark.com/covid-19-and-the ... sacrifice/

Steve Hayes’s The Dispatch even went so far as to fact-check the extent of 45’s lies on the pandemic:

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/has ... oronavirus

For reasonable people with brains, Feynman’s axiom holds true:

“Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled”.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:01 am

It’s crap like this that is going to stay in the minds of anyone who works/has worked in a competent organization with effective leadership:

Hospitals have warned for weeks there won't be enough ventilators, so why did it take so long to invoke the DPA? Trump says, “Well we knew – it depends, it depends on how it goes, worst case, absolutely, best case, not at all. So we’re going to have to see where it goes..."

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/stat ... 40931?s=21

Hospitals/NIH/CDC have been to on this repeatedly. Effective leader questions: 1. what’s our situation with supplies? 2. what are the impediments to meeting demand? 3. what tools do we have to maximize closing the delivery gap? FFS this is not rocket science. All this requires is correlating numbers with risk, and cross referencing impediments to efficiency.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
M564038
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:08 am

The loss of respect towards the USA across the globe over the last few years is astounding. From beacon to banana republic, that is what Trump has done to america. The american voters doesn’t even know, because of Fox News propaganda. They how no idea how bad things look. If the democrats manage to tell them, Trump don’t stand a chance.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:19 am

M564038 wrote:
The loss of respect towards the USA across the globe over the last few years is astounding. From beacon to banana republic, that is what Trump has done to america. The american voters doesn’t even know, because of Fox News propaganda. They how no idea how bad things look. If the democrats manage to tell them, Trump don’t stand a chance.


A lot of people even among the knuckledraggers know - they’re just in denial. A lot of people have experienced either great leaders or shit leadership where they work or go to school, or have been on the receiving end of projects or services that were badly managed. Again, it’s not rocket science - people know what failures look like just from living life.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
bgm
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:32 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
It will be Trump vs Biden's VP. Biden mentally checked out many years ago.


And Trump hasn't? Have you watched him speak or tweet? Holy Jeebus, he's completely looney tunes. At least Biden is not the vindictive mean-girl bitchy senile that ol' Stablegenius is.

It's too bad that it took a pandemic like this, with the risk of so much death, suffering, and economic hardship for some people to realize just what a piss poor President Trump is. Even the most die-hard Trumpistas here deep down know he's shit. They will never admit it, but hopefully at the ballot box they will do the right thing.
Less praying, more hand washing.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:10 pm

M564038 wrote:
The loss of respect towards the USA across the globe over the last few years is astounding. From beacon to banana republic, that is what Trump has done to america. The american voters doesn’t even know, because of Fox News propaganda. They how no idea how bad things look. If the democrats manage to tell them, Trump don’t stand a chance.

They just point to how countries know America will not just sit back and take it and not to mess with us (Soleimani for example) and how countries do respect us more (Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc)

Easy to ignore what Europe thinks because they have been doing that under Obama (ignoring how Europe and much of the world liked him.)

It seems right wing voters care about the US' reputation from a position of strength. And to a degree, they're right... Many countries approach us more cautiously. But that's more because of North Korea-like reasons... Don't piss off the crazy ruler because he may do something wild. It's unsustainable and damaging in the long run.

As the biggest kid in school, we can bully the other kids around, even force our friends to go along with stuff, but eventually we'll have no respect, no friends, and the other kids will gang up on us

I have a feeling most of the world sees it as a Trump problem and if we vote someone new in, the healing process will begin and we can trend to normal. If we reelect him, it's just gonna further drift us away from our allies...
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 807
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:11 pm

M564038 wrote:
The loss of respect towards the USA across the globe over the last few years is astounding. From beacon to banana republic, that is what Trump has done to america. The american voters doesn’t even know, because of Fox News propaganda. They how no idea how bad things look. If the democrats manage to tell them, Trump don’t stand a chance.


Yeah, the 'lack of respect' is due to Trump. Like you guys loved GWB so much after the Iraq fiasco.

Trump hasn't started any wars unlike his predecessors, if that means losing the 'beacon' hell yeah I am happy with that. As for banana republic the globalist elite has always looked down on America, and until recently have come to become servants of China.. oh yes how is that working for the world uh?

That his antics, tweeting, comments statements are stupid, yes, but overall he is not going to worry about what foreigners think of him, because they don't get to vote in US elections and even if its the nicest and most beautiful president they will still hate America. I know becuase I lived outside the US without Trump being president so lets stop thinking Trump has changed anyone's mind abroad.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
argentinevol98
Posts: 86
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
People that make this statement deny reality. If you know anything about Donald Trump he was a moderate Democrat his whole life.


Trump is fringe not because of policy necessarily but because he's out of his damn mind. That's what really hits most people as being fringe. Most people actually care about how the person behaves (they can like crazy, they can hate it-not saying one way is favored over the other).

Although he's also fairly damn fringe on many policy points as well. Sure moderate dems believe in tight border security but when the hell has one called Mexicans rapists and said we should build a wall paid for by the very Mexicans? or has relentlessly attacked NATO? Obama put pressure on NATO states to raise spending but never threatened to not defend an ally. I'm not saying that this is necessarily fringe right politics by Trump but it's fringe something, for sure They go against long held consensuses. Also I think people hardly care what Trump was before what he is now in terms of politics.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11164
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Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:29 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
The loss of respect towards the USA across the globe over the last few years is astounding. From beacon to banana republic, that is what Trump has done to america. The american voters doesn’t even know, because of Fox News propaganda. They how no idea how bad things look. If the democrats manage to tell them, Trump don’t stand a chance.


Yeah, the 'lack of respect' is due to Trump. Like you guys loved GWB so much after the Iraq


The COVID-19 bungle is as bad as 43 launching into war in a country having zero to do with 9/11, and slightly worse than 44 promising to ‘do something’ about the speculation that led to Lehman shock while instead giving all the Wall Street crooks a ‘too big to fail’ pass.

Another quick take on the scale of this administration’s failed response:

The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on the same day. By late January, Seoul had medical companies starting to work on a diagnostic test — one was approved a week later. Today, the U.S. isn’t even close to meeting test demand

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1240 ... 28868?s=21

To put that into context - because the South Koreans were so organized and honest in their response, they have already flattened the case growth curve two months later. Instead we got two months of wasted time and mixed messaging and a failure of the leader to ask the most crucial crisis management questions. And now we’re going to see how bad the healthcare system supply issues really are.

But even so we still have sycophants kissing WH ass and making sugarcoaty statements like this BS:

https://twitter.com/repdougcollins/stat ... 53058?s=21
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:29 pm

Read it and weep haters.....

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.”

Ilhan Omar
@IlhanMN
Politics aside, this is incredible and the right response in this critical time. https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1240347628048486400


Ilhan Omar
[email protected] always says, unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership and we are seeing that in our country right now. I have faith that we will survive this as a nation and build together.

Lee Fang
@lhfang
Trump suspending mortgage foreclosures, demanding cash payments to Americans, now invoking the Defense Production Act to force private firms to produce needed supplies is incredible. Kind of a shell shock for anyone who reported on any economic policies in the Obama years.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11164
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:35 pm

mham001 wrote:
Read it and weep haters.....

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.”

Ilhan Omar
@IlhanMN
Politics aside, this is incredible and the right response in this critical time. https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1240347628048486400


Ilhan Omar
[email protected] always says, unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership and we are seeing that in our country right now. I have faith that we will survive this as a nation and build together.

Lee Fang
@lhfang
Trump suspending mortgage foreclosures, demanding cash payments to Americans, now invoking the Defense Production Act to force private firms to produce needed supplies is incredible. Kind of a shell shock for anyone who reported on any economic policies in the Obama years.


Missing the FL350 view big-time - none of these major measures would be needed if there had been leadership following the science on day one. And of course Cuomo is going to offer praise - his state has NYC! The nation’s financial capital can’t be allowed to undergo calamity - this requires major prioritization of federal assistance.

The fact you don’t recognize or comment on posts upthread about proper crisis management and how it looks already says everything. Sycophants.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:38 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on the same day. By late January, Seoul had medical companies starting to work on a diagnostic test — one was approved a week later. Today, the U.S. isn’t even close to meeting test demand


So, Korea does not have an FDA to worry about. Good for them, now you're going to have to find better talking points, that one is dull.

20,000+ tests just yesterday. First human vaccine trials in the world started last week.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:39 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
The loss of respect towards the USA across the globe over the last few years is astounding. From beacon to banana republic, that is what Trump has done to america. The american voters doesn’t even know, because of Fox News propaganda. They how no idea how bad things look. If the democrats manage to tell them, Trump don’t stand a chance.


Yeah, the 'lack of respect' is due to Trump. Like you guys loved GWB so much after the Iraq


The COVID-19 bungle is as bad as 43 launching into war in a country having zero to do with 9/11, and slightly worse than 44 promising to ‘do something’ about the speculation that led to Lehman shock while instead giving all the Wall Street crooks a ‘too big to fail’ pass.

Another quick take on the scale of this administration’s failed response:

The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on the same day. By late January, Seoul had medical companies starting to work on a diagnostic test — one was approved a week later. Today, the U.S. isn’t even close to meeting test demand

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1240 ... 28868?s=21

To put that into context - because the South Koreans were so organized and honest in their response, they have already flattened the case growth curve two months later. Instead we got two months of wasted time and mixed messaging and a failure of the leader to ask the most crucial crisis management questions. And now we’re going to see how bad the healthcare system supply issues really are.

But even so we still have sycophants kissing WH ass and making sugarcoaty statements like this BS:

https://twitter.com/repdougcollins/stat ... 53058?s=21


You know very well I am not kissing WH ass, I call it as I see it. Yes huge blunders but being corrected as we speak.

Like I have pointed out to you many times, the super professional liberal elite that governs Europe has handled this much badly than the current US administration. Perhaps for the simple and stupid fact that Trump was the first to implement the China ban, then the Europe ban.

Just yesterday in Spain they had 160+ deaths, that's more than the entire death toll that the US currently has. Spain had it in one day. That's just one sample.

From my point of view, I am so HAPPY, Trump is our president and not some nice looking liberal European, because as you can see around you, our situation as we write in this forum is much much better than Europe. That doesn't mean it wont get there, but it is buying us time, and yes perhaps the WH should have been better prepared, but right now as you can see this is going to cause mayor havoc in lives and in the economy.

I must say no other president perhaps FDR was the last president to deal with so much, so its going to be a difficult situation and I hope you hope that he gets on this because we ALL might get affected not only by the virus but by an imminent economic collapse.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aesma
Posts: 12564
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Trump is as fringe as you can get so I don't understand your implied argument about Bernie.


People that make this statement deny reality. If you know anything about Donald Trump he was a moderate Democrat his whole life.

To answer the OP, No the country will not elect Biden.


First of all Trump wasn't a politician, never ran for anything. That's very fringe right there.

Then what were his personal views don't matter, what he ran on was very fringe, often opposite to the platform of the party that endorsed him (on international commerce for example).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8917
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:42 pm

mham001 wrote:
Read it and weep haters.....

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.”

Ilhan Omar
@IlhanMN
Politics aside, this is incredible and the right response in this critical time. https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1240347628048486400


Ilhan Omar
[email protected] always says, unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership and we are seeing that in our country right now. I have faith that we will survive this as a nation and build together.

Lee Fang
@lhfang
Trump suspending mortgage foreclosures, demanding cash payments to Americans, now invoking the Defense Production Act to force private firms to produce needed supplies is incredible. Kind of a shell shock for anyone who reported on any economic policies in the Obama years.

Not gonna lie, some people won't ever give credit when credit is due. I'm actually pleasantly surprised with some of the bipartisanship I'm seeing*

But I think you're missing the main criticism... It's not that Trump isn't taking the appropriate measures* now, it that he didn't take them months ago. And that is a very valid criticism. He is starting in a deep hole and he's going to have to do a lot of good just to break even.

Surely that's fair enough? I don't see how someone can ignore anything good being done now* but it's just as unfair to let him off the hook for the crap handling in the first couple months


*(That all being said, I am not saying he's doing a perfect job now, in fact, I still have a lot of criticisms of his handling. Just a disclaimer before I get a ton of posts saying what he's currently doing wrong... I know I know)
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
The fact you don’t recognize or comment on posts upthread about proper crisis management and how it looks already says everything. Sycophants.


I don't have to comment on every piece of FUD thrown around here. get over yourself. The subject is Biden/Trump. That prominent progressive Democrats are praising Trump's response speaks profoundly on how reasonable people will also see this - not non-av extremists. Your views are becoming more and more irrelevant now.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11164
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:47 pm

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on the same day. By late January, Seoul had medical companies starting to work on a diagnostic test — one was approved a week later. Today, the U.S. isn’t even close to meeting test demand


So, Korea does not have an FDA to worry about. Good for them, now you're going to have to find better talking points, that one is dull.

20,000+ tests just yesterday. First human vaccine trials in the world started last week.


Still missing the point - they saw the science and took things head on. Epidemiology is not a field limited to national borders/identity ya know. FDA? Great, that’s what emergency declarations are for.

The results are pretty clear on the trajectory chart:

Image

And still nothing on reply 32’s ‘effective leader’ questions which obviously were NOT asked properly because chickens are coming home to roost for hospitals from coast to coast from this week onward.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11164
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:48 pm

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The fact you don’t recognize or comment on posts upthread about proper crisis management and how it looks already says everything. Sycophants.


I don't have to comment on every piece of FUD thrown around here. get over yourself. The subject is Biden/Trump. That prominent progressive Democrats are praising Trump's response speaks profoundly on how reasonable people will also see this - not non-av extremists. Your views are becoming more and more irrelevant now.


On the contrary the TV ad people in the Biden campaign are already prepping this stuff for November.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11164
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:55 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yeah, the 'lack of respect' is due to Trump. Like you guys loved GWB so much after the Iraq


The COVID-19 bungle is as bad as 43 launching into war in a country having zero to do with 9/11, and slightly worse than 44 promising to ‘do something’ about the speculation that led to Lehman shock while instead giving all the Wall Street crooks a ‘too big to fail’ pass.

Another quick take on the scale of this administration’s failed response:

The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on the same day. By late January, Seoul had medical companies starting to work on a diagnostic test — one was approved a week later. Today, the U.S. isn’t even close to meeting test demand

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1240 ... 28868?s=21

To put that into context - because the South Koreans were so organized and honest in their response, they have already flattened the case growth curve two months later. Instead we got two months of wasted time and mixed messaging and a failure of the leader to ask the most crucial crisis management questions. And now we’re going to see how bad the healthcare system supply issues really are.

But even so we still have sycophants kissing WH ass and making sugarcoaty statements like this BS:

https://twitter.com/repdougcollins/stat ... 53058?s=21


You know very well I am not kissing WH ass, I call it as I see it. Yes huge blunders but being corrected as we speak.

Like I have pointed out to you many times, the super professional liberal elite that governs Europe has handled this much badly than the current US administration. Perhaps for the simple and stupid fact that Trump was the first to implement the China ban, then the Europe ban.

Just yesterday in Spain they had 160+ deaths, that's more than the entire death toll that the US currently has. Spain had it in one day. That's just one sample.

From my point of view, I am so HAPPY, Trump is our president and not some nice looking liberal European, because as you can see around you, our situation as we write in this forum is much much better than Europe. That doesn't mean it wont get there, but it is buying us time, and yes perhaps the WH should have been better prepared, but right now as you can see this is going to cause mayor havoc in lives and in the economy.

I must say no other president perhaps FDR was the last president to deal with so much, so its going to be a difficult situation and I hope you hope that he gets on this because we ALL might get affected not only by the virus but by an imminent economic collapse.


All the more reason to read the Tim Miller piece I linked in reply 31 because he made a direct comparison to FDR.

The economic steps being suggested are indeed appropriate - we know this because miscreants like Rand Paul are standing almost alone against them. I’m just saying it’s ridiculous that we even got to this point, since, as 45 put it so well: we are the best prepared to beat this. Ya don’t say. Our SMEs in public health were sounding the alarm long enough ago that if our leaders had put some faith in the experts’ ability, we should look like Korea right now. But Kushner, and the market, and pride....yeah. FFS.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Can Biden defeat Trump to become President?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:03 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
But I think you're missing the main criticism... It's not that Trump isn't taking the appropriate measures* now, it that he didn't take them months ago. And that is a very valid criticism. He is starting in a deep hole and he's going to have to do a lot of good just to break even.

Surely that's fair enough? I don't see how someone can ignore anything good being done now* but it's just as unfair to let him off the hook for the crap handling in the first couple months


I understand many confuse statements meant to calm the markets as some sort of evidence that he was doing nothing. Or that In fact, if you can dig deep into reports, because msm does not want to say it, there was plenty going on in the background. So far, he beat the rest of the world on vaccine trials. A vaccine that was begun the day the Chinese released the genome data in January. Then remember that everything he did do was heavily criticized by the kneejerks, such as travel restrictions.

It wouldn't have mattered what he did or didn't do, it would have been wrong and all the headlines would have said so.

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