caliboy93
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Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:17 pm

What will possibly be some of the biggest, most notable shifts in society stemming from this outbreak? I know it's too early to tell, but it seems like the following changes will occur:

The wealth disparity will be greater (white collar people work from home, hourly workers are laid off).

There will be more fear among people overall (social distancing has been going on for ages due to social media and the divisive, inflammatory political landscape which will only be exacerbated by the virus and the hoarding of essential goods).

And travel in particular will be much less affordable as hotels and airlines drastically increase prices when demand comes back to recuperate their losses.

Anything else?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:32 pm

I see this as a big experiment in telecommuting, but there's no guarantee telecommuting will be a winner. I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months so it will be a great experiment in how well or how poorly humans can work remotely with the currently available technology. Some humans won't adapt well, some business needs won't fit the paradigm well.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:49 pm

(US perspective)

There was certainly a big power grab to shut down the majority of people's lives, causing an almost unimaginable economic toll. A "shelter in place" order could lead to millions of deaths, as food delivery trails off and violence breaks out.

I think COVID19 is a dangerous new viral disease. And the inability of society to measure it and deal with it proportionately could lead to complete social breakdown. I predict the US cannot withstand what Italy is going through. Our overreaction could tear society apart permanently. COVID is not an existential threat according to infectious disease doctors. But indirectly, it is an existential threat to society, because people are talking about stopping essential functions. Anyway, my 2c.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months .


I don't see a reason for that to be over before we have a vaccine.

caliboy93 wrote:
There will be more fear among people overall (social distancing has been going on for ages due to social media and the divisive, inflammatory political landscape which will only be exacerbated by the virus and the hoarding of essential goods).


Being the chief optimism officer I could see some healing effect from it. People will realise there is something bigger than the magnified differences dominating society today.

There have been experiments along those lines: https://dzone.com/articles/lessons-abou ... cave-exper

And travel in particular will be much less affordable as hotels and airlines drastically increase prices when demand comes back to recuperate their losses.


I would expect cheap...due to a ton of bankrupt airlines there will be lots of cheap frames to pick up, lots of VFR traffic and market share up for grabs.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
tommy1808
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:00 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
(US perspective)

There was certainly a big power grab to shut down the majority of people's lives, causing an almost unimaginable economic toll. A "shelter in place" order could lead to millions of deaths, as food delivery trails off and violence breaks out.

I think COVID19 is a dangerous new viral disease. And the inability of society to measure it and deal with it proportionately could lead to complete social breakdown. I predict the US cannot withstand what Italy is going through. Our overreaction could tear society apart permanently. COVID is not an existential threat according to infectious disease doctors. But indirectly, it is an existential threat to society, because people are talking about stopping essential functions. Anyway, my 2c.


You got through your civil war, and plenty of countries have come out the other side of even more devastating wars too. Often stronger than before. Heads up!

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:21 pm

caliboy93 wrote:
What will possibly be some of the biggest, most notable shifts in society stemming from this outbreak?


Hopefully, the end of The Communist Party of China.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:33 am

Not that Twitter is a legit barometer of anything but people are PO’d about class divisions and wealth privilege the crisis is bringing to the fore.

A lot of comments following healthcare professionals’ complaints of the wealthy getting preferential testing/treatment are very supportive. Most Americans seem incredulous that those tasked with putting themselves at risk to care for us have to wait for tests behind people with $$$ who can get anything they want.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
apodino
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:47 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Not that Twitter is a legit barometer of anything but people are PO’d about class divisions and wealth privilege the crisis is bringing to the fore.

A lot of comments following healthcare professionals’ complaints of the wealthy getting preferential testing/treatment are very supportive. Most Americans seem incredulous that those tasked with putting themselves at risk to care for us have to wait for tests behind people with $$$ who can get anything they want.


This isn't just on twitter but I am seeing this everywhere and it really angers me.

One other thing I am noticing is you are seeing a lot of politicians starting to take positions that were unimaginable just weeks ago. Mitt Romney leading the charge for basically a UBI, and Mitch McConnell signing off on it, while Nancy Pelosi appears to be a bit resistant to the idea? What I see happening now is the lines between corporatism and populism are becoming more and more clear, with many politicians realizing they are going to have to cozy up to the latter in order to stay in power. Even though the corporate lobbyists are trying to use the situation to make a buck by having politicians do their bidding for them and the rest of us be damned. You are seeing a lot of people fighting back now. The real political battle these days is between populism and corporatism, not liberal and conservatism. We were already trending populist prior to this, as it is what got Donald Trump elected, and it led to the Squad becoming very influential on Captiol Hill. Bernie Sanders popularity is because of this, and then the corporatists all bowed to Biden and Sanders lost out. But Populist positions are clearly impacting how this economic recovery package being passed is shaping out. And it better not benefit Wall Street too much, because the rest of us will all get screwed.
 
steveinbc
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:54 am

In my view we will see populist reactions against:
(a) Governments that have been evasive and deceitful to their people and worsened the plight of regular folk- China and Iran Spring to mind
(b) Inequality of access and quality of health care regardless of political stripes
(c). Anger at how the markets have reacted to the virus and the massive erosion of peoples' retirement funds
(d). A substantial swing away from globalization and dependency on other countries for essentials
(e). A fear of mass immigration and general free flow of peoples across national boundaries
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blueflyer
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:01 am

If the current situation lasts a couple of months or more, we will become even more isolated societies, furthering damaging our collective ability to communicate in person and interact with one another without a screen as interface. That will make us coarser, more polarized at the extremes, more likely to dismiss and ignore perspectives and points of view unlike ours.

I disagree that travel will become expensive, quite the opposite, at least for most of the market. Demand will return gradually, airlines and hotels will have very little pricing power for a long time. The moment they think they can raise prices, someone is going to re-open a shuttered hotel or bring back another aircraft from storage and keep prices from increasing. It's only when the pre-crisis supply is back on the market that they will regain significant pricing power.
Corona is God’s punishment for the amoral, principles-free, holier-than-thou Evangelicals. The rest of us are just collateral damage
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:34 pm

The Great Depression and WWII were defining events in shaping the US (and the world for that matter). One casualty of Corvid 19 is obvious. Government is not the problem. Bad government is. Corporatism is bad, but usually positions itself to win, we shall see. If a year from now it wins, about all we can say about this is call it the Era of Big Debt.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:58 pm

Every other generation will blame the Baby Boomers for everything.
 
anrec80
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:04 pm

Revelation wrote:
I see this as a big experiment in telecommuting, but there's no guarantee telecommuting will be a winner. I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months so it will be a great experiment in how well or how poorly humans can work remotely with the currently available technology. Some humans won't adapt well, some business needs won't fit the paradigm well.


I don't know what will be after 2 months. After 2 months, people will start carrying out governors and presidents. 2-3 weeks is how long I think they can maintain stability.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:07 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I see this as a big experiment in telecommuting, but there's no guarantee telecommuting will be a winner. I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months so it will be a great experiment in how well or how poorly humans can work remotely with the currently available technology. Some humans won't adapt well, some business needs won't fit the paradigm well.


I don't know what will be after 2 months. After 2 months, people will start carrying out governors and presidents. 2-3 weeks is how long I think they can maintain stability.


No.

By that time, scared and fear-mongered legislatures will have voted for new "Enabling Acts" to give those governors and presidents unlimited powers to "fight the virus".
And once governors and presidents got a taste of "absolute power" they are not going to give it up easily, especially when the unemployment starts to skyrocket and people demand a "strong leader" to deal with the next crisis.
 
anrec80
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:12 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
No.

By that time, scared and fear-mongered legislatures will have voted for new "Enabling Acts" to give those governors and presidents unlimited powers to "fight the virus".
And once governors and presidents got a taste of "absolute power" they are not going to give it up easily, especially when the unemployment starts to skyrocket and people demand a "strong leader" to deal with the next crisis.


Well, I am not even sure it gets to massive unemployment. It's about when you start seeing hundreds of thousands of people who are sick (not with virus) and tired of this life disruption out on the streets - then even the most absolute powers start to fail.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:14 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
No.

By that time, scared and fear-mongered legislatures will have voted for new "Enabling Acts" to give those governors and presidents unlimited powers to "fight the virus".
And once governors and presidents got a taste of "absolute power" they are not going to give it up easily, especially when the unemployment starts to skyrocket and people demand a "strong leader" to deal with the next crisis.


Well, I am not even sure it gets to massive unemployment. It's about when you start seeing hundreds of thousands of people who are sick (not with virus) and tired of this life disruption out on the streets - then even the most absolute powers start to fail.


No.

Those protesters will be mowed down by National Guard and Militarized Police all in the name of "Safety".
 
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Revelation
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:28 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I see this as a big experiment in telecommuting, but there's no guarantee telecommuting will be a winner. I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months so it will be a great experiment in how well or how poorly humans can work remotely with the currently available technology. Some humans won't adapt well, some business needs won't fit the paradigm well.


I don't know what will be after 2 months. After 2 months, people will start carrying out governors and presidents. 2-3 weeks is how long I think they can maintain stability.

Relax, people.

We're still talking about a mortality rate much less than seasonal flu, TB, etc.

Stay at home, read a book, stop watching sensationalist bullshit.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:11 pm

Revelation wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I see this as a big experiment in telecommuting, but there's no guarantee telecommuting will be a winner. I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months so it will be a great experiment in how well or how poorly humans can work remotely with the currently available technology. Some humans won't adapt well, some business needs won't fit the paradigm well.


I don't know what will be after 2 months. After 2 months, people will start carrying out governors and presidents. 2-3 weeks is how long I think they can maintain stability.

Relax, people.

We're still talking about a mortality rate much less than seasonal flu, TB, etc.

Stay at home, read a book, stop watching sensationalist bullshit.


Where do you get that? Dr. Fauci testified to Congress that even with reduced estimations the mortality rate is 10x that of seasonal flu.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/11/top ... he-us.html
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Revelation
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:20 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Where do you get that? Dr. Fauci testified to Congress that even with reduced estimations the mortality rate is 10x that of seasonal flu.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/11/top ... he-us.html

Seems like the rates are all over the place, but yes, I was too low:

Image
Ref: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ntain.html

So my post wasn't right numerically, but still even if it is similar to flu or even 10x flu rate, how many people do you personally know who have died from flu?

And if so, what was their general state of health before the flu and did they have complicating factors?

Point is the same, don't panic. Stay home, catch up on all those books you wanted to read, movies you wanted to watch, video games that haven't been played enough, etc.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
stratosphere
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I see this as a big experiment in telecommuting, but there's no guarantee telecommuting will be a winner. I predict our distancing period will be at least 2-3 months so it will be a great experiment in how well or how poorly humans can work remotely with the currently available technology. Some humans won't adapt well, some business needs won't fit the paradigm well.


I don't know what will be after 2 months. After 2 months, people will start carrying out governors and presidents. 2-3 weeks is how long I think they can maintain stability.

Relax, people.

We're still talking about a mortality rate much less than seasonal flu, TB, etc.

Stay at home, read a book, stop watching sensationalist bullshit.


Not hardly. The problem with this virus is it seems to be mutating it can give one 30 year old mild symptoms and kill another 30 year old both healthy people. One thing seems to be for certain is people with underlying health conditions like me being in my mid 50's won't fair well if contracted so I am not taking any chances but as scared as I am for me I am more scared about the economy we cannot sustain having most business idle for too long. But I understand the short term reasoning behind it as to not overwhelm the hospitals which in the end may happen anyway.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:22 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Not hardly. The problem with this virus is it seems to be mutating it can give one 30 year old mild symptoms and kill another 30 year old both healthy people. One thing seems to be for certain is people with underlying health conditions like me being in my mid 50's won't fair well if contracted so I am not taking any chances but as scared as I am for me I am more scared about the economy we cannot sustain having most business idle for too long. But I understand the short term reasoning behind it as to not overwhelm the hospitals which in the end may happen anyway.

Point is the same, don't panic. Stay home, catch up on all those books you wanted to read, movies you wanted to watch, video games that haven't been played enough, pick up that guitar in the attic, etc. Not much you can do about the things you mention. Whatever the down time is, chances are that in a few months time you'll want to say you did something useful with it. As for me I've picked up a thousand page electronics textbook and am chewing through it a few pages at a time. Very interesting stuff, filling in lots of gaps in my knowledge.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
anrec80
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
Relax, people.

We're still talking about a mortality rate much less than seasonal flu, TB, etc.

Stay at home, read a book, stop watching sensationalist bullshit.


Easier said than done. First, I am yet to get used to working remotely and get all the right equipment for that. Second, I have my own plans - since I haven’t given up any hopes on finding someone for myself, I need to get socializing and working on that, right after I moved here to Stamford CT. And this virus just screws things up since I am stuck at home. And third - my mom just crashed by from Canada and is also stuck in the same one bedroom apartment without any place to get out. Can you imagine decibel level in this place?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:02 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Revelation wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

I don't know what will be after 2 months. After 2 months, people will start carrying out governors and presidents. 2-3 weeks is how long I think they can maintain stability.

Relax, people.

We're still talking about a mortality rate much less than seasonal flu, TB, etc.

Stay at home, read a book, stop watching sensationalist bullshit.


Not hardly. The problem with this virus is it seems to be mutating it can give one 30 year old mild symptoms and kill another 30 year old both healthy people. One thing seems to be for certain is people with underlying health conditions like me being in my mid 50's won't fair well if contracted so I am not taking any chances but as scared as I am for me I am more scared about the economy we cannot sustain having most business idle for too long. But I understand the short term reasoning behind it as to not overwhelm the hospitals which in the end may happen anyway.



I read an article where the thinking is that vaping and smoking may be causing younger folks issues. it was anecdotal, and not backed by any studies, but it seems logical that a lung affecting virus is going to affect those with poor lung condition more.

Either way,. isolate, and take time to do other things. As soon as you think you have it, go get tested.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
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Re: Societal Shifts due to Coronavirus

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:23 pm

I don't like how some small merchants (boutique Hotel owners) are calculating the best route to take ..stay open (or fight to stay open) or close up voluntarily in order to scam Fed/Fema (or which ever dept the Corona Aid will provide 'relief' or compensations for loses.

That is exactly what the large lobby-heavy industries bop up and down all day for Congressional Welfare.

Suddenly these people who've griped about free stuff and the poor scamming the system...now they are scheming on how the screw the system as best they can.

This Corona plague is just one example of why Small Government is brain child of 'people who want it all for themselves', they see it as 'less eyes means less witnesses' when getting your scam on.

Too many Humans in positions of power with little or zero oversight WILL violate the public trust - every time.

Big Government needs to do a far better job in accounting for every cent. On a past visit to the West LA VA medical center, just looking around at computer set ups and the like and it was clear as day that scams are in play behind these cheap as hell windows machines that were obsolete 10 years ago. I'm afraid this blue print exist in most government facilities and deeper than anyone could ever know. I'd like to see forensic Accountants at the heads of any Agency authorizing payments..then have a second forensic executive reconciling every invoice on the other end. I believe the Inspector General's job is to keep an eye on things...not good enough. We need them in every agency department not just a few appointees in strategically placed positions.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

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