Dieuwer
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"If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:31 am

Perhaps an idea - separate from the main COVID-19 thread - to offer up ideas how YOU would handle the pandemic. It is easy to criticize those who are in charge (bit guilty myself of that), so why not contribute something constructive?

"If I was Governor, I would...."

1) Close all establishments until mid-April that cater to groups more than 10 people in one room (Schools, Restaurants, Sports clubs, etc.)
2) Restaurants can do take-out, but no seat-ins (small places could e.g. have their waiter deliver the food instead of waiting on customers).
3) Require businesses with employees that interact face-to-face with customers (think supermarket personnel, barbers, etc.) to protect their employees from harm. This can simply be done by e.g. placing a plastic screen between the teller and the customer, provide masks, gloves, etc.
4) Require supermarkets to immediately institute "Elderly shopping hours" for those 65+.
5) Require supermarkets to curtail hoarding by limiting the number of units of one item someone can buy.
6) Urge people to practice Social Distancing (S.D. ) a minimum 7-10 feet.
7) Allow hospitals to potentially make their own protective clothing if needed (I have seen on Dutch TV one example that seems to work well)
8 ) Ban all visits until further notice to those most vulnerable, like those living in nursing homes.
9) Require those businesses that can let their employees work from home do so (most obvious would be those that do desk work). All other businesses should practice S.D. and preferable work with a "skeleton crew" or shifts (once again, no more than 10 people in one room).

I would not be in favor of a total lock-down, nor curfews. I think that would do more harm to the economy than warranted.

I would hopefully have access to some emergency funding to help those that suffer the most from this crisis, and try to get treatments to those in need as fast as possible. If that means forking over $$$ for an experimental drug or whatever, so be it.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:13 am

Good suggestions.
Setting up hand washing/sanitizing kiosks in crowded public places could also be a good idea.

Otherwise, while I agree that measures need to be taken to avoid overloading the healthcare system, I think that many of the measures taken so far have been knee jerk reactions without any considerations for the catastrophic economic consequences they will bring.
Many more people will suffer from losing their jobs/livelyhoods and endure economic hardship for years to come than will suffer from the disease.
Not to mentioned that governments went in head first without any exit strategy... Leading to the question more and more people are asking themselves: what do we do now?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
tomaheath
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:31 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps an idea - separate from the main COVID-19 thread - to offer up ideas how YOU would handle the pandemic. It is easy to criticize those who are in charge (bit guilty myself of that), so why not contribute something constructive?

"If I was Governor, I would...."

1) Close all establishments until mid-April that cater to groups more than 10 people in one room (Schools, Restaurants, Sports clubs, etc.)
2) Restaurants can do take-out, but no seat-ins (small places could e.g. have their waiter deliver the food instead of waiting on customers).
3) Require businesses with employees that interact face-to-face with customers (think supermarket personnel, barbers, etc.) to protect their employees from harm. This can simply be done by e.g. placing a plastic screen between the teller and the customer, provide masks, gloves, etc.
4) Require supermarkets to immediately institute "Elderly shopping hours" for those 65+.
5) Require supermarkets to curtail hoarding by limiting the number of units of one item someone can buy.
6) Urge people to practice Social Distancing (S.D. ) a minimum 7-10 feet.
7) Allow hospitals to potentially make their own protective clothing if needed (I have seen on Dutch TV one example that seems to work well)
8 ) Ban all visits until further notice to those most vulnerable, like those living in nursing homes.
9) Require those businesses that can let their employees work from home do so (most obvious would be those that do desk work). All other businesses should practice S.D. and preferable work with a "skeleton crew" or shifts (once again, no more than 10 people in one room).

I would not be in favor of a total lock-down, nor curfews. I think that would do more harm to the economy than warranted.

I would hopefully have access to some emergency funding to help those that suffer the most from this crisis, and try to get treatments to those in need as fast as possible. If that means forking over $$$ for an experimental drug or whatever, so be it.

This is pretty much how it is in New Hampshire now.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:53 am

Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.
 
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Aesma
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:05 am

Chinese doctors that have come to help in Italy are saying that not enough is done there, and the lockdown is already more severe than what you're proposing.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
dragon-wings
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:47 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps an idea - separate from the main COVID-19 thread - to offer up ideas how YOU would handle the pandemic. It is easy to criticize those who are in charge (bit guilty myself of that), so why not contribute something constructive?

"If I was Governor, I would...."

1) Close all establishments until mid-April that cater to groups more than 10 people in one room (Schools, Restaurants, Sports clubs, etc.)
2) Restaurants can do take-out, but no seat-ins (small places could e.g. have their waiter deliver the food instead of waiting on customers).
3) Require businesses with employees that interact face-to-face with customers (think supermarket personnel, barbers, etc.) to protect their employees from harm. This can simply be done by e.g. placing a plastic screen between the teller and the customer, provide masks, gloves, etc.
4) Require supermarkets to immediately institute "Elderly shopping hours" for those 65+.
5) Require supermarkets to curtail hoarding by limiting the number of units of one item someone can buy.
6) Urge people to practice Social Distancing (S.D. ) a minimum 7-10 feet.
7) Allow hospitals to potentially make their own protective clothing if needed (I have seen on Dutch TV one example that seems to work well)
8 ) Ban all visits until further notice to those most vulnerable, like those living in nursing homes.
9) Require those businesses that can let their employees work from home do so (most obvious would be those that do desk work). All other businesses should practice S.D. and preferable work with a "skeleton crew" or shifts (once again, no more than 10 people in one room).

I would not be in favor of a total lock-down, nor curfews. I think that would do more harm to the economy than warranted.

I would hopefully have access to some emergency funding to help those that suffer the most from this crisis, and try to get treatments to those in need as fast as possible. If that means forking over $$$ for an experimental drug or whatever, so be it.



Where I live in New York they are doing a few of these things.
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scbriml
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:35 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


We know you're suffering from the inconvenience, so how would you handle it?
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RJMAZ
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:10 am

8pm curfew for a start. Police will not need 24 hour shifts which provides extra resources during the day.

Only truck drivers with deliveries to supermarkets are allowed at night.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:43 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


At this point there's a need for a discussion about what kind of economic damage we are willing to inflict on our societies to prevent a certain amount of deaths.
At some point we will do more harm than good if a cure/vaccine drags out for many months.

I would focus a lot more on identifying groups with excessive risk of death from covid19s in terms of isolation and support, and lift restrictions for other groups.
But it could turn out to be a wrong gamble.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
Sokes
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:10 am

Francoflier wrote:
Good suggestions.
Setting up hand washing/sanitizing kiosks in crowded public places could also be a good idea.
...


I was wondering the same. There should be obligatory hand washing before entering ATMs, supermarkets and pharmacies.

Isolation of high risk population is the second important measure. Basically old age homes in which nurses, doctors and other stuff get a room and aren't allowed to go to their families till a vaccine is found.
Food is kept out for three days before it's taken inside.
It may be an idea if hotels with 20-30 rooms are used for the same purpose.

Any clinical trials have to be done as soon as the scientists are confident that a medicament/ vaccination may work. It doesn't matter if a few die while doing so.
Volunteer doctors below 40 which have no history of lung trouble should be used as guinea pigs. Should the patients/ doctor triple some time in future doctors with immunity will be highly useful.
Before anybody gets outraged: what risks do soldiers face?
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lugie
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:51 am

Dahlgardo wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


At this point there's a need for a discussion about what kind of economic damage we are willing to inflict on our societies to prevent a certain amount of deaths.
At some point we will do more harm than good if a cure/vaccine drags out for many months.

I would focus a lot more on identifying groups with excessive risk of death from covid19s in terms of isolation and support, and lift restrictions for other groups.
But it could turn out to be a wrong gamble.



Full lockdowns are going to inflict serious damage on the economy, yes, but they also seem like the only measure we have currently to buy us time.

I would wager a guess and say about 4 weeks is the longest time such a full lockdown can be kept in place before its costs massively outweigh its benefits.
The current weekend is going to be especially interesting because Italy imposed its lockdown order on March 9th, so we're nearing the 2-week mark since the implementation of this drastic measure and thus should begin to see whether it has had any positive effect. I hope that there's going to be a significant reduction in the number of new infections (I believe that this number has stabilized during this past week, meaning that the growth may have begun to transition from exponential toward a more linear trajectory, now the goal is to get below linear. I also think that the death counts are not going to reduce for another week, since how severe cases take longer to develop).

If such an effective can be observed in Italy, I would order a 2-3 week lockdown in all places that don't have it yet, and keep those orders that are already in place in effect for that period as well.

After that however, I believe that restrictions will inevitably have to begin being eased, otherwise the ensuing economic malady will cost more lives than COVID-19 would.


What may help us here are the promising results (corroborated by doctors in China, South Korea, Italy and France) of the clinical trials with Chloroquine as a COVID-19 remedy. The studies seem to indicate that it helps patients with severe cases of COVID very effectively and, more importantly, rapidly (massive improvements of health reported within 5-6 days of Chloroquine therapy).
This means that within the first week of a lockdown, a full cohort of trials could be done and if companies manage to ramp up production of the drug, it might be a promising way to avoid a collapse of health systems once the harshest lockdown orders are lifted.
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Dieuwer
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
Chinese doctors that have come to help in Italy are saying that not enough is done there, and the lockdown is already more severe than what you're proposing.


Millions of infected tourists were roaming all over the country a month ago. So yeah, EVERYONE in Italy is by now INFECTED ALREADY.
A lockdown matters very little at this point.
On top of that, Italians love to be outdoors, sit on terraces, go to catholic mass together, etc. COVID-19 was spreading this way too all over the country, even before the lockdown was in place. And don't forget the large number of people fleeing Lombardia before the government closed it off.

So yeah, better be prepared to accept the fact that EVERY Italian will be infected and 1-3% of the population dies.
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:46 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
At this point there's a need for a discussion about what kind of economic damage we are willing to inflict on our societies to prevent a certain amount of deaths.
At some point we will do more harm than good if a cure/vaccine drags out for many months.


Agree. I would be more reasonable, and believe that 80% of damage is being done by pushing the bar 20% further than it should be. I would:
- Focus on risk groups of 60+. People need to be made more aware whether or not they are in a group, but each should judge for themselves. If you are younger and healthier, going to places where there is generally younger crowd - then you can carry out your daily living. No need in significant changes or restrictions. If you are a senior, or have a senior in your household - well, then please be aware of everything.
- Allow restaurants operate at 50% capacity, maintaining 4-6 feet between the tables. After a few weeks of mandatory closing, a significant number of restaurants will simply not reopen.
- gyms - idk...
Overall - educate and inform, but do not force or restrict.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:59 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


At this point there's a need for a discussion about what kind of economic damage we are willing to inflict on our societies to prevent a certain amount of deaths.
At some point we will do more harm than good if a cure/vaccine drags out for many months.

I would focus a lot more on identifying groups with excessive risk of death from covid19s in terms of isolation and support, and lift restrictions for other groups.
But it could turn out to be a wrong gamble.


Agreed. When need to ask ourselves if destroying society is worth the relatively few deaths.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:10 pm

scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


We know you're suffering from the inconvenience, so how would you handle it?


I would ask those susceptible to the worst effects of the virus to stay home if it all possible. Everyone else follow common sense precautions such as keeping yourself and your space clean. Iron fisted governing never works and I hope these governors are removed from office. They are acting as dictators.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:12 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


At this point there's a need for a discussion about what kind of economic damage we are willing to inflict on our societies to prevent a certain amount of deaths.
At some point we will do more harm than good if a cure/vaccine drags out for many months.

I would focus a lot more on identifying groups with excessive risk of death from covid19s in terms of isolation and support, and lift restrictions for other groups.
But it could turn out to be a wrong gamble.


Agreed. When need to ask ourselves if destroying society is worth the relatively few deaths.


Do we need to break out the epidemiological curve chart again? Seriously this isn’t rocket science.

There isn’t enough data and too many known unknowns to simply ‘identify groups’ and enhance their isolation and support.
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:13 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes mandatory lock downs are going to kill more people than the virus. Look for suicides to spike in states that are doing it. People are going to be financially ruined because of these governors and many will end up taking their life.


We know you're suffering from the inconvenience, so how would you handle it?


I would ask those susceptible to the worst effects of the virus to stay home if it all possible. Everyone else follow common sense precautions such as keeping yourself and your space clean. Iron fisted governing never works and I hope these governors are removed from office. They are acting as dictators.


I guess the 10th amendment and police powers don’t exist...interesting.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:36 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
scbriml wrote:

We know you're suffering from the inconvenience, so how would you handle it?


I would ask those susceptible to the worst effects of the virus to stay home if it all possible. Everyone else follow common sense precautions such as keeping yourself and your space clean. Iron fisted governing never works and I hope these governors are removed from office. They are acting as dictators.


I guess the 10th amendment and police powers don’t exist...interesting.


Where does it say the governor can put people on house arrest forever? These Democrat governors have given no timeline at all.
 
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Aesma
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:50 pm

I'm sorry but the economy doesn't matter. If your country can produce (or import) enough food and medicine then nobody should be dying for the sake of the economy.

If you live in a so called rich country and can't do that, then are you really living in a rich country ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:09 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm sorry but the economy doesn't matter. If your country can produce (or import) enough food and medicine then nobody should be dying for the sake of the economy.

If you live in a so called rich country and can't do that, then are you really living in a rich country ?



Says someone who has enjoyed life in a rich country like France. Economy of course matters, if not your standard of living would be similar to your other French speaking nations such as Senegal, Ivory Coast etc, whom haven't enjoyed great health services, and great education like them.

Are you willing to trade all your economy in order to save thousands and be like Senegal at the end?
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
dobilan
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:10 pm

@aesma, it's not about the economy only. Isolation, lack of sunlight and fresh air, lack of physical activity can be killer by themselves. Not to mention mental health and state. If the quarantine is not handled with care we can expect indirect deaths and social disobedience. Yellow Vests and such have started for less. It's not about rich countries, it's about the crumbling of the social system.
And returning to economy, the health sector doesn't live on thin air but on money generated in the economy. Somebody has to produce the disinfectants, masks, ventilators, food (by the way, it's spring which is critical for agriculture) others have to transport the goods and so on.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:14 pm

Human beings won't be hunkered down for a month inside their houses, not only would entail mental issues, but do very very stupid things.

Many times we are reminded that narcotics should be legalized to reduce the crime and violence pointing out to prohibition as how bad it was when the government told us not to drink alcohol.

Now the government is mandating people to stay home, lets see what else is going to come out of this, I fear it won't be good. Humans need to work in order to avoid doing stupid things.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aesma
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:15 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I'm sorry but the economy doesn't matter. If your country can produce (or import) enough food and medicine then nobody should be dying for the sake of the economy.

If you live in a so called rich country and can't do that, then are you really living in a rich country ?


Says someone who has enjoyed life in a rich country like France. Economy of course matters, if not your standard of living would be similar to your other French speaking nations such as Senegal, Ivory Coast etc, whom haven't enjoyed great health services, and great education like them.

Are you willing to trade all your economy in order to save thousands and be like Senegal at the end?


My country has known things like drastic rationing in times of war, and people weren't dying for no reason. I'm not saying the economy never matters, I'm saying it shouldn't be the focus right now. By all means do what's necessary to keep it going (something which is done in France, much more potently than in the US I find, for example paying the salary of everybody needing it) but it shouldn't be prioritized over the life of people.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:22 pm

Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I'm sorry but the economy doesn't matter. If your country can produce (or import) enough food and medicine then nobody should be dying for the sake of the economy.

If you live in a so called rich country and can't do that, then are you really living in a rich country ?


Says someone who has enjoyed life in a rich country like France. Economy of course matters, if not your standard of living would be similar to your other French speaking nations such as Senegal, Ivory Coast etc, whom haven't enjoyed great health services, and great education like them.

Are you willing to trade all your economy in order to save thousands and be like Senegal at the end?


My country has known things like drastic rationing in times of war, and people weren't dying for no reason. I'm not saying the economy never matters, I'm saying it shouldn't be the focus right now. By all means do what's necessary to keep it going (something which is done in France, much more potently than in the US I find, for example paying the salary of everybody needing it) but it shouldn't be prioritized over the life of people.


Ok thanks for clarifying because believe me, in reality there has to be a point on which to stop everything to save thousands of lives might imply millions will die in the long run because of the total collapse of the world's economy. That's what is at stake. Right now in the US there is 260 people dead, in a country where more than 7,000 people die every day for any other reason and not being coronavirus.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:50 pm

Aesma wrote:
My country has known things like drastic rationing in times of war, and people weren't dying for no reason. I'm not saying the economy never matters, I'm saying it shouldn't be the focus right now.


So where is the tipping point then?
Perhaps the decline in your economy due to a prolonged lockdown will prevent you from building 50 new future hospitals,educate more doctors or handle (or even prevent) the next pandemic.

In a world of finite resources priorities have to be made, also with the future in mind.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
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Aesma
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:52 pm

I don't believe that. Most of the economy nowadays is BS economy, nice to have, but not necessary. Only food and medicine matters for us to live.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Dieuwer
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:54 pm

I like to remind people this thread is to let us know how YOU would handle the COVID-19 outbreak. I did not mean for it to be a copy of the Novel Coronavirus thread.
 
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scbriml
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:57 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I would ask those susceptible to the worst effects of the virus to stay home if it all possible. Everyone else follow common sense precautions such as keeping yourself and your space clean. Iron fisted governing never works and I hope these governors are removed from office. They are acting as dictators.


I guess the 10th amendment and police powers don’t exist...interesting.


Where does it say the governor can put people on house arrest forever? These Democrat governors have given no timeline at all.


Nobody is under “house arrest” and who said it’s forever? What bothers you more - that you’re being asked to stay home as much as possible, or that these are Democrat governors?

You don’t seem to appreciate just how contagious this is and that someone can be infected for about two weeks before they show any symptoms. Thus it’s very easy to pick up and pass on to your friends and families.

From the other thread:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Italy has announced 793 deaths, 6557 new infections in the past 24 hours.

https://www.corriere.it/salute/malattie ... 8720.shtml

In Italy there are worries that this is starting to spread in Milan and that as much as 40% of people are staying mobile despite lockdown measures, too many people are out in the streets and not taking it seriously.
Politicians are now calling for a total lockdown.

Source https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_mar ... 8720.shtml


Just 40% of the population mobile and it’s still spreading like wildfire. So I’m afraid your suggestion isn’t going to work.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:08 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I would ask those susceptible to the worst effects of the virus to stay home if it all possible. Everyone else follow common sense precautions such as keeping yourself and your space clean. Iron fisted governing never works and I hope these governors are removed from office. They are acting as dictators.


Yepp. Democratic governors are so democratic!!!
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:44 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Agreed. When need to ask ourselves if destroying society is worth the relatively few deaths.


Especially given that those lives can be saved without destroying the society.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:21 pm

I would probably say proceed as normal. There is not much we can gain by this incredibly overwrought human shutdown. The virus is going to kill some vulnerable people, and it's a little bit different from what we are used to. But, that is part of life. We should not ruin the lives of 25% to lengthen the lives of 0.1%, most of whom already have complex illnesses.

This is a big deal, but it's not a shut everything down and ruin a billion people's lives type of big deal. It's not World War II level.

Fortunately, in the developing world, they would ignore this mostly-affluent panic that is happening. The working classes in rich countries may suffer the most. They are being prevented from working right now.
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:58 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm sorry but the economy doesn't matter. If your country can produce (or import) enough food and medicine then nobody should be dying for the sake of the economy.

If you live in a so called rich country and can't do that, then are you really living in a rich country ?


Well, of course the economy does matter. Life isn’t limited to just food and medicine. Western citizens are too used to having retirement benefits, transportation, police, healthcare. They all are committed to their version of idea of “social justice”, which already overload even healthy economies. All that, of course, does require strong and functional economy. And if you run it down - how will all that be provided?
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:43 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I'm sorry but the economy doesn't matter. If your country can produce (or import) enough food and medicine then nobody should be dying for the sake of the economy.

If you live in a so called rich country and can't do that, then are you really living in a rich country ?


Well, of course the economy does matter. Life isn’t limited to just food and medicine. Western citizens are too used to having retirement benefits, transportation, police, healthcare. They all are committed to their version of idea of “social justice”, which already overload even healthy economies. All that, of course, does require strong and functional economy. And if you run it down - how will all that be provided?


I think you produce food and medicine with money, so yes the economy does matter if not ask those third world nations.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
kalvado
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:51 pm

Start preparing for what happens after quarantine. Virus still going to be around, we cannot keep lockdown forever. So:
-prepare to move to tiered quarantine. strict for 60+, minimal for below 40. More jobs for college students, horah!
-encourage separation within families to keep older folks protected
-setup fever checkpoints. Everywhere. Large stores, offices, campuses, schools, buses - anywhere more than 200-500 people a day pass. Make sure everyone passes a few of those a day.
-make in-house quarantine violation a crime punishable by up to 45 days of arrest (in secure quarantine facility, of course)
-allow most businesses to operate within limits. E.g. tents for restaurants, 12' between tables - tents or other outdoor seating to increase capacity.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 2539
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:53 pm

Step #1- encourage existing business involved in making PPE, disinfectants, text kit components, medicines, ventilators, etc and anything related to that supply chain to expand. Find best incentives to encourage expansion

Step #2- encourage other industries that can to retool to produce the same products and components. Find ways for machine shops from various industries to produce parts for the rapid expansion of production lines. Focus on processing of raw and intermediate materials first, like equipment to make the mask filtration material from polypropylene.

Step #3- invest in healthcare infrastructure

Step #4- carefully select industries that aren't relevant to this or anything essential like food and paper products to shut down for social distancing purposes

I feel like they are taking these steps but they're doing it in the wrong order.

I think NY is getting this closest to "correct"
情報
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:02 am

kalvado wrote:
Start preparing for what happens after quarantine. Virus still going to be around, we cannot keep lockdown forever. So:
-prepare to move to tiered quarantine. strict for 60+, minimal for below 40. More jobs for college students, horah!
-encourage separation within families to keep older folks protected
-setup fever checkpoints. Everywhere. Large stores, offices, campuses, schools, buses - anywhere more than 200-500 people a day pass. Make sure everyone passes a few of those a day.
-make in-house quarantine violation a crime punishable by up to 45 days of arrest (in secure quarantine facility, of course)
-allow most businesses to operate within limits. E.g. tents for restaurants, 12' between tables - tents or other outdoor seating to increase capacity.


Sounds a bit too Orwellian for my taste.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
kalvado
Posts: 2522
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:05 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Start preparing for what happens after quarantine. Virus still going to be around, we cannot keep lockdown forever. So:
-prepare to move to tiered quarantine. strict for 60+, minimal for below 40. More jobs for college students, horah!
-encourage separation within families to keep older folks protected
-setup fever checkpoints. Everywhere. Large stores, offices, campuses, schools, buses - anywhere more than 200-500 people a day pass. Make sure everyone passes a few of those a day.
-make in-house quarantine violation a crime punishable by up to 45 days of arrest (in secure quarantine facility, of course)
-allow most businesses to operate within limits. E.g. tents for restaurants, 12' between tables - tents or other outdoor seating to increase capacity.


Sounds a bit too Orwellian for my taste.

What exactly is Orwellian? Fever checkpoints?
There is no reason to store data <99F/37C cases. And yes, walking around sick is a crime these days.
 
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Aesma
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:08 am

Have a change to sick pay laws/rules so that sick people do not come to work under any circumstance.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
NIKV69
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:35 am

Dieuwer wrote:

"If I was Governor, I would...."




Do exactly the same as Vladimir Putin is doing.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:18 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

"If I was Governor, I would...."




Do exactly the same as Vladimir Putin is doing.


Act as though nothing is wrong because he knows everything and we know nothing. Well played! That works out so well!

I would turn away mass transit from states and countries that refuse to do anything about their visitors. Flights would be turned back to Florida and Italy. Set up border check points for those coming into the state. If they are coming from states that refuse to do anything to control the pandemic, they will be sent packing.

And a second round for those who come from safe states to see if they have any symptoms.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
dobilan
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:48 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:36 am

Let me give a try:
- I would have been ordered a parallel care system for Covid patients, either makeshift hospitals like China did or makeshift hospitals for mild/medium cases in available community buildings or hotels. Nowadays in Italy or Spain the hospitals are literally biological reactors, the equivalent of the reactor core from Chernobyl. China did it right on this matter.
- Full protective suit (from military reserves) for medical personnel. Surgical masks or even N95 is ridiculous for such pathogen loads that is in the hospitals.
- 6 hour shifts for medical personnel, isolation from their families and full quarter and psychological support for them. Photos with exhausted personnel lying with the head on the desk shows the upreparedness, we don't need "Stalingrad heroes" but specialists that are efficient and reasonably rest. I'm wondering how many of them have the immunity depressed due to exhaustion, sleep deprivation, stress.
- enforcement on social distancing, especially on risky groups: seniors, youth that tend to disconsider the disease and gather in groups
- immediate cancelling for all direct social interaction events and venues (sports, bars, restaurants, concerts)
- the economy should be kept running, total shutdown can be as disastrous as the virus, I think we will see it in the near future
- measures to keep up the morale of the population: from the discourse to involvement wherever is possible
 
anrec80
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:21 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Do exactly the same as Vladimir Putin is doing.


Russian authorities did bulk of their work even before the virus got out of China, by monitoring situation, making their projections and preparing measures ahead of time. As the result - so far no casualties directly related to virus, and a few hundred infected. And all that - without extreme measures. And now they are sending aid to Italy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 16546.html
Last edited by anrec80 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:22 pm

anrec80 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Do exactly the same as Vladimir Putin is doing.


Russian authorities did bulk of their work even before the virus got out of China, by monitoring situation, making their projections and preparing measures ahead of time. As the result - so far no casualties directly related to virus, and a few hundred infected. And all that - without extreme measures.


If true, then that only underscores that preparation and following experts' lead was key.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:24 pm

kalvado wrote:
What exactly is Orwellian? Fever checkpoints?
There is no reason to store data <99F/37C cases. And yes, walking around sick is a crime these days.


Not sure there is any point in checkpoints. For example, Ukraine has them. But Ukrainian earners knew there were fever checkpoints upon entry into the country, and before crossing they were taking Tylenol or some other medicine to get their body temperature and symptoms down.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Do exactly the same as Vladimir Putin is doing.


Russian authorities did bulk of their work even before the virus got out of China, by monitoring situation, making their projections and preparing measures ahead of time. As the result - so far no casualties directly related to virus, and a few hundred infected. And all that - without extreme measures.


If true, then that only underscores that preparation and following experts' lead was key.


Also a bit of hard choices and not worrying about the PC and woke crowd.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/coronav ... pread.html
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:51 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Russian authorities did bulk of their work even before the virus got out of China, by monitoring situation, making their projections and preparing measures ahead of time. As the result - so far no casualties directly related to virus, and a few hundred infected. And all that - without extreme measures.


If true, then that only underscores that preparation and following experts' lead was key.


Also a bit of hard choices and not worrying about the PC and woke crowd.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/coronav ... pread.html


I have stated many times the last few weeks that political concerns of any kind are irrelevant when managing a public health crisis. Let the media / activists say whatever - they'll be proven wrong later.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
NIKV69
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
Act as though nothing is wrong because he knows everything and we know nothing. Well played! That works out so well!



No actually he closed the border when this started. Something you would have called racist.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/europe/p ... index.html
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
If true, then that only underscores that preparation and following experts' lead was key.


And in addition to that, in Russia they have a special department - Emergency Situations Department. Their responsibility include handling exactly that - situations that are out of normal, such as pandemics, massive fires, floods, earthquakes, etc. They are crewed with firefighters, emergency construction crews, evacuation and medical planes, field doctors, crowd control and other experts to provide leadership and guidance onsite. They have a network of warehouses that keep supplies of medicines, food, blankets, medical equipment, tents and stuff needed in urgent cases.

In the event there is a disaster or some disease outbreak, first emergency teams will be onsite very fast to determine further needs, and in a very short time period there will be evacuation plans, planes and buses ready, field hospitals, temporary housing - everything that is needed to save people’s lives and get them to safety. Such a department would be a good thing to have in the US and EU. Then you will be prepared to things like this Coronavirus, hurricanes, wildfires, and top country’s leadership will not be helpless.
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:30 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Act as though nothing is wrong because he knows everything and we know nothing. Well played! That works out so well!



No actually he closed the border when this started. Something you would have called racist.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/europe/p ... index.html


Actually, he called it a hoax and blamed Democrats for the hoax for weeks. Not only that, but he fired the pandemic team set up under Obama

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... liminated/
https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

But, yeah, let's praise the cult leader
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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scbriml
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:19 am

seb146 wrote:
But, yeah, let's praise the cult leader


Damned autocorrect! ;)
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