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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:04 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
If true, then that only underscores that preparation and following experts' lead was key.


And in addition to that, in Russia they have a special department - Emergency Situations Department. Their responsibility include handling exactly that - situations that are out of normal, such as pandemics, massive fires, floods, earthquakes, etc. They are crewed with firefighters, emergency construction crews, evacuation and medical planes, field doctors, crowd control and other experts to provide leadership and guidance onsite. They have a network of warehouses that keep supplies of medicines, food, blankets, medical equipment, tents and stuff needed in urgent cases.

In the event there is a disaster or some disease outbreak, first emergency teams will be onsite very fast to determine further needs, and in a very short time period there will be evacuation plans, planes and buses ready, field hospitals, temporary housing - everything that is needed to save people’s lives and get them to safety. Such a department would be a good thing to have in the US and EU. Then you will be prepared to things like this Coronavirus, hurricanes, wildfires, and top country’s leadership will not be helpless.


The US has FEMA - the play a similar role obviously and have been called into action after large floods, Hurricane Sandy, Harvey, Katrina etc. Although oddly in this situation they have not been called into action until just six days ago :knockout:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Tugger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:32 pm

scbriml wrote:
seb146 wrote:
But, yeah, let's praise the cult leader


Damned autocorrect! ;)

Democracies by there very nature most always take longer to come to a decision, a consensus, so their response to things like the current situation is slower than any dictatorship or autocratic government where one person can decide with no real input/interference from the public at large.

That is why most democracies try to put into place emergency teams to short circuit that process, that can step in with prior granted authority to make quick decisions up front, at least initially. After a month or so the citizenry will get to apply their input based on the effect and effectiveness of the emergency teams actions/decisions.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
LCDFlight
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:56 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
8pm curfew for a start. Police will not need 24 hour shifts which provides extra resources during the day.

Only truck drivers with deliveries to supermarkets are allowed at night.


Lol then criminals Or looters will strike at night.

Many types of people are essential. Plumbers. Doctors. Gas station attendants. Food packaging workers. Electricity plant workers and trades people. Doctors, nurses. Child care workers for those people. Home care attendants for the elderly.

A lot of people are essential and a lot will be homeless and quite upset in the near future. People need to think if they are prepared to destroy their community forever in order to probably unsuccessfully fight the virus. Italy is out of containment and they will be through this tragic event soon. They will recover first.
 
stratosphere
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:28 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Act as though nothing is wrong because he knows everything and we know nothing. Well played! That works out so well!



No actually he closed the border when this started. Something you would have called racist.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/europe/p ... index.html


Actually, he called it a hoax and blamed Democrats for the hoax for weeks. Not only that, but he fired the pandemic team set up under Obama

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... liminated/
https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

But, yeah, let's praise the cult leader


Yeah Seb you know what medical professionals are screaming for right now besides ventilators? N95 masks guess who's administration used a bunch of them and never replenished them? Your hero Obama that's who. I have no problem nailing Trump for all the shortcomings I really do and our do nothing congress both parties. But there is plenty of blame to go around on this one.

https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/o ... rs.263178/
 
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Tugger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:40 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Yeah Seb you know what medical professionals are screaming for right now besides ventilators? N95 masks guess who's administration used a bunch of them and never replenished them? Your hero Obama that's who. I have no problem nailing Trump for all the shortcomings I really do and our do nothing congress both parties. But there is plenty of blame to go around on this one.

https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/o ... rs.263178/

The article does not actually say that.
It does not show any kind of proof of President Obama playing down the need for the masks or that he nixed anything. In fact there is nothing shown for why the stocks were not replenished.

Perhaps some digging is in order to actually understand. :scratchchin:

Who knows, maybe the civil systems needed to be replenished first? Maybe production did get back to needed levels? Maybe there was a buy American requirement attached to any repurchase that was done and US capacity didn't ramp quickly? Perhaps the plan was to replenish in 2016....

Some kind of actual sourcing with information would be helpful instead of trying to paint everything black so one black horse is less visible.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Dieuwer
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:27 pm

We are veering off topic again...
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:20 am

Another amazing job in handling the virus is done in Belarus by their Father.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nitsy.html

The first case of coronavirus in Belarus was recorded in a BNTU student from Iran . Immediately the young man and all his first level contacts were hospitalized.


Basically, as soon as the first diagnosis was confirmed, the doctors, local KGB and police within hours identified a few hundred people the student has been in contact with, and forced them all into quarantine. And now the Father in his usual manner is trolling everyone: “Our situation isn’t critical at all. We aren’t taking any extreme measures and do not understand why they turned the whole world into a madhouse”.

And as of today:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... marta.html
81 cases of coronavirus were recorded in Belarus. 59 in the hospital, 22 have already been discharged.


About 1100 people who were first-level contacts for patients are isolated. 8800 people are contacts of the second level.
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:39 am

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

No actually he closed the border when this started. Something you would have called racist.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/europe/p ... index.html


Actually, he called it a hoax and blamed Democrats for the hoax for weeks. Not only that, but he fired the pandemic team set up under Obama

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... liminated/
https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

But, yeah, let's praise the cult leader


Yeah Seb you know what medical professionals are screaming for right now besides ventilators? N95 masks guess who's administration used a bunch of them and never replenished them? Your hero Obama that's who. I have no problem nailing Trump for all the shortcomings I really do and our do nothing congress both parties. But there is plenty of blame to go around on this one.

https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/o ... rs.263178/


Stop. Just stop. "Both sides do it" just makes you look desperate. It was the head of the Republican administration that disbanded the pandemic response team. It was the head of the Republican administration that got rid of national assistance agencies for dealing with what we have now because Obama must be erased from history.

This is not "both sides do it". One side did this.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bgm
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:20 pm

"If I was Governor, I would NOT handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick is facing a backlash after saying he'd be willing to die to restart the American economy amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he thinks other grandparents would, as well. Patrick said on Fox News Monday night that he's spoken to "hundreds of people" who felt similarly — "that we can't lose our country."

"No one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival, in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?"' Patrick remarked. "And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."

In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Patrick claimed other grandparents like him would be willing to make the same sacrifice.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronaviru ... e-economy/

:tombstone:

With people like this in charge, THIS is why the US will be completely f**ked.
Less praying, more hand washing.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:34 pm

bgm wrote:
"If I was Governor, I would NOT handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick is facing a backlash after saying he'd be willing to die to restart the American economy amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he thinks other grandparents would, as well. Patrick said on Fox News Monday night that he's spoken to "hundreds of people" who felt similarly — "that we can't lose our country."

"No one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival, in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?"' Patrick remarked. "And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."

In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Patrick claimed other grandparents like him would be willing to make the same sacrifice.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronaviru ... e-economy/

:tombstone:

With people like this in charge, THIS is why the US will be completely f**ked.


Because maybe, just maybe he does care about his future generation. How about that for a boomer? the type you constantly mock and vilify in these forums, which now you seem to suggest to worry about being f**ed. BTW, what country are you from what measures have your country done? you haven't ever answered this.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:37 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
"If I was Governor, I would NOT handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick is facing a backlash after saying he'd be willing to die to restart the American economy amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he thinks other grandparents would, as well. Patrick said on Fox News Monday night that he's spoken to "hundreds of people" who felt similarly — "that we can't lose our country."

"No one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival, in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?"' Patrick remarked. "And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."

In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Patrick claimed other grandparents like him would be willing to make the same sacrifice.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronaviru ... e-economy/

:tombstone:

With people like this in charge, THIS is why the US will be completely f**ked.


Because maybe, just maybe he does care about his future generation. How about that for a boomer? the type you constantly mock and vilify in these forums, which now you seem to suggest to worry about being f**ed. BTW, what country are you from what measures have your country done? you haven't ever answered this.


As I posted in response to another forumer who seemed to be wishing boomers dead - it should be possible, with a little nuance, to be upset at boomers for the state of the world WITHOUT wishing them dead. We all have boomer relatives dear to us.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:25 pm

If I were governor of a quarantine state like NY, CA, OR, WA, I would quarantine anyone coming from a non-quarantine state for three weeks. I think I said this before. Actions have consequences. If people want to defy health officials, they have a price to pay.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:26 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
"If I was Governor, I would NOT handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick is facing a backlash after saying he'd be willing to die to restart the American economy amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he thinks other grandparents would, as well. Patrick said on Fox News Monday night that he's spoken to "hundreds of people" who felt similarly — "that we can't lose our country."

"No one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival, in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?"' Patrick remarked. "And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."

In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Patrick claimed other grandparents like him would be willing to make the same sacrifice.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronaviru ... e-economy/

:tombstone:

With people like this in charge, THIS is why the US will be completely f**ked.


Because maybe, just maybe he does care about his future generation. How about that for a boomer? the type you constantly mock and vilify in these forums, which now you seem to suggest to worry about being f**ed. BTW, what country are you from what measures have your country done? you haven't ever answered this.


So you are okay with millions dying? People who are on chemo or diabetic or just old? Wipe out millions and you are fine with that, AirWorthy? okay.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:56 am

seb146 wrote:
If I were governor of a quarantine state like NY, CA, OR, WA, I would quarantine anyone coming from a non-quarantine state for three weeks. I think I said this before. Actions have consequences. If people want to defy health officials, they have a price to pay.


Good to know you wouldn't be petty...
 
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scbriml
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:45 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
If I were governor of a quarantine state like NY, CA, OR, WA, I would quarantine anyone coming from a non-quarantine state for three weeks. I think I said this before. Actions have consequences. If people want to defy health officials, they have a price to pay.


Good to know you wouldn't be petty...


Wanting to protect the citizens of your state is “petty”? Entire countries are imposing similar restrictions on visitors.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
StuckinCMHland
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:27 pm

One that immediately comes to mind is to look at how to entice business and industry to your state and get them out of China.

There will be a market for this in the coming months, since what business in their right mind wants to stay in a dictatorship that is such a hot mess as it obviously is.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:10 pm

scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
If I were governor of a quarantine state like NY, CA, OR, WA, I would quarantine anyone coming from a non-quarantine state for three weeks. I think I said this before. Actions have consequences. If people want to defy health officials, they have a price to pay.


Good to know you wouldn't be petty...


Wanting to protect the citizens of your state is “petty”? Entire countries are imposing similar restrictions on visitors.


I took issue with the "defy" remark. It sounds like it would be personal rather than practical. If they test negaythen there's no reason to quarantine them for nearly a month.
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:20 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Good to know you wouldn't be petty...


Wanting to protect the citizens of your state is “petty”? Entire countries are imposing similar restrictions on visitors.


I took issue with the "defy" remark. It sounds like it would be personal rather than practical. If they test negaythen there's no reason to quarantine them for nearly a month.


There is also no reason to go for Spring Break or Mardi Gras or any gatherings in these states where governors have decided COVID-19 is a hoax or we need to just let old people die for the sake of the economy or it is just like the flu or whatever excuse. If people defy the guidelines of experts and test kits seem to be limited to government officials and the wealthy, why not quarantine others?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:48 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
If they test negaythen there's no reason to quarantine them for nearly a month.

This is why we have experts calling the shots and why we need to elect people who are willing to listen and defer to experts.

The fact that someone tests negative doesn't mean they don't pose a threat to others. Ever heard of the term "carrier"? With this disease, there have been cases of asymptomatic carriers testing negative. Those very people can spread the virus to other people. THAT is why you quarantine them.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:34 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
If they test negaythen there's no reason to quarantine them for nearly a month.

This is why we have experts calling the shots and why we need to elect people who are willing to listen and defer to experts.

The fact that someone tests negative doesn't mean they don't pose a threat to others. Ever heard of the term "carrier"? With this disease, there have been cases of asymptomatic carriers testing negative. Those very people can spread the virus to other people. THAT is why you quarantine them.


Good thing for attorneys that know the Constitution. You and others seem to think the government can violate our rights because of this. You should read the articles that many con-law specialists have written. None of them say the 10th amendment applies to this and they predicted many lawsuits will follow. They specifically pointed out San Francisco going too far with their measures. What these governors and mayors are doing is just too broad.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/mas ... explainer/
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:08 pm

Well, RI went full on, stopping all out-of-State people at their borders or going house-to-house to quarantine them. By a Democratic governor, btw. Who said Trump was a fascist?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Well, RI went full on, stopping all out-of-State people at their borders or going house-to-house to quarantine them. By a Democratic governor, btw. Who said Trump was a fascist?


Exactly. The governor of TN is a Republican and today stated that he refuses to order shelter in place citing his belief in protecting our freedoms.
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:41 am

seb146 wrote:
So you are okay with millions dying? People who are on chemo or diabetic or just old? Wipe out millions and you are fine with that, AirWorthy? okay.....


Keep in mind - it’s not black and white, and the economy cannot sustain such quarantine for long. If you cripple economy to the point where it cannot sustain a healthcare system, many more people will die from many other things. And in the long-ish run (handful of month maybe) there will be a choice between tragic and horrible, and I do not know which one is which. The choice will be to keep quarantine, but watch first the economy being crippled and then the country falling apart, or open up and lift the restrictions even amid people dropping dead on the streets. And none of those trends will be controllable.
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:42 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Well, RI went full on, stopping all out-of-State people at their borders or going house-to-house to quarantine them. By a Democratic governor, btw. Who said Trump was a fascist?


Well, a democracy is a dictate of democrats.
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:15 am

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So you are okay with millions dying? People who are on chemo or diabetic or just old? Wipe out millions and you are fine with that, AirWorthy? okay.....


Keep in mind - it’s not black and white, and the economy cannot sustain such quarantine for long. If you cripple economy to the point where it cannot sustain a healthcare system, many more people will die from many other things. And in the long-ish run (handful of month maybe) there will be a choice between tragic and horrible, and I do not know which one is which. The choice will be to keep quarantine, but watch first the economy being crippled and then the country falling apart, or open up and lift the restrictions even amid people dropping dead on the streets. And none of those trends will be controllable.


So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:49 am

seb146 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So you are okay with millions dying? People who are on chemo or diabetic or just old? Wipe out millions and you are fine with that, AirWorthy? okay.....


Keep in mind - it’s not black and white, and the economy cannot sustain such quarantine for long. If you cripple economy to the point where it cannot sustain a healthcare system, many more people will die from many other things. And in the long-ish run (handful of month maybe) there will be a choice between tragic and horrible, and I do not know which one is which. The choice will be to keep quarantine, but watch first the economy being crippled and then the country falling apart, or open up and lift the restrictions even amid people dropping dead on the streets. And none of those trends will be controllable.


So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


Decisions on who lives and who dies are made every day. Talk to any doctor or nurse. Death is certainly acceptable for our economy. Otherwise we wouldn't have homeless people or allow our veterans to have inadequate health care, etc.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:54 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Keep in mind - it’s not black and white, and the economy cannot sustain such quarantine for long. If you cripple economy to the point where it cannot sustain a healthcare system, many more people will die from many other things. And in the long-ish run (handful of month maybe) there will be a choice between tragic and horrible, and I do not know which one is which. The choice will be to keep quarantine, but watch first the economy being crippled and then the country falling apart, or open up and lift the restrictions even amid people dropping dead on the streets. And none of those trends will be controllable.


So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


Decisions on who lives and who dies are made every day. Talk to any doctor or nurse. Death is certainly acceptable for our economy. Otherwise we wouldn't have homeless people or allow our veterans to have inadequate health care, etc.


You are conflating things - these are either/or and hasty generalization fallacies.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:56 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


Decisions on who lives and who dies are made every day. Talk to any doctor or nurse. Death is certainly acceptable for our economy. Otherwise we wouldn't have homeless people or allow our veterans to have inadequate health care, etc.


You are conflating things - these are either/or and hasty generalization fallacies.


Why is it acceptable for someone to die from poverty but not coronavirus? And I wouldn't talk about either/or. You seem to think zero deaths from coronavirus is the only acceptable number.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:08 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Decisions on who lives and who dies are made every day. Talk to any doctor or nurse. Death is certainly acceptable for our economy. Otherwise we wouldn't have homeless people or allow our veterans to have inadequate health care, etc.


You are conflating things - these are either/or and hasty generalization fallacies.


Why is it acceptable for someone to die from poverty but not coronavirus? And I wouldn't talk about either/or. You seem to think zero deaths from coronavirus is the only acceptable number.


Another non sequitur - nobody stated poverty is acceptable. It is a difficult issue, but is largely unrelated. As for ‘zero deaths’ - that’s a cute little strawman - I never made any statement to that effect and never would.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:34 am

seb146 wrote:
So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


So you actually think the state of the economy and the level of healthcare are not related. Just wow.

Much to your surprise you will probably find, that countries with a strong economy also have the best healthcare systems.

As others have stated, the consequence of burning your economy down now is, that you will not be able to provide better healthcare in the future, which will probably end up costing more future lives than you can save today. The world is not perfect. Ressources are limited.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:47 am

seb146 wrote:
So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


As others pointed out, these things are related. You can't provide healthcare system and other institutions guarding human life without a strong economy. Run the economy down - and you'll see how low the value of a human life can drop. All I am trying to say - there exists a point where you have to start making such choices and sacrifices.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:19 am

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


As others pointed out, these things are related. You can't provide healthcare system and other institutions guarding human life without a strong economy. Run the economy down - and you'll see how low the value of a human life can drop. All I am trying to say - there exists a point where you have to start making such choices and sacrifices.


Agreed. I think being quarantined until the end of April will be about the best we can expect.
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:49 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Keep in mind - it’s not black and white, and the economy cannot sustain such quarantine for long. If you cripple economy to the point where it cannot sustain a healthcare system, many more people will die from many other things. And in the long-ish run (handful of month maybe) there will be a choice between tragic and horrible, and I do not know which one is which. The choice will be to keep quarantine, but watch first the economy being crippled and then the country falling apart, or open up and lift the restrictions even amid people dropping dead on the streets. And none of those trends will be controllable.


So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.



Decisions on who lives and who dies are made every day. Talk to any doctor or nurse. Death is certainly acceptable for our economy. Otherwise we wouldn't have homeless people or allow our veterans to have inadequate health care, etc.



Weren't you conservatives complaining about so called "death panels" when complaining about the ACA? It's not okay if the government does it, but if the wealthy elites do, all is dandy?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:32 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Weren't you conservatives complaining about so called "death panels" when complaining about the ACA? It's not okay if the government does it, but if the wealthy elites do, all is dandy?


When the situation gets to this point, everyone will be in one boat - both wealthy elites and average Joes.
 
anrec80
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:45 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Agreed. I think being quarantined until the end of April will be about the best we can expect.


And I personally think even this is too long. Generally, two weeks would suffice, while 30 days would be appropriate for hardest-hit areas such as NYC. There are parts of the country that aren't affected, such as rural Montana or Idaho. What coronavirus there? Obviously, you can start issuing recommendations on reasonably safely reopening those parts of the country, lifting retail and restaurant bans (with some reasonable restrictions, such as reduced capacity, fewer guests at a time). This will provide more confidence in business, and create an impression that the problem from national level going down to regional. And hopefully keep some businesses from making any drastic decisions such as laying off people, shutting down their shops, and such.
 
PPVRA
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:48 pm

Congress needs to check the powers of the FDA and CDC. Perhaps some of their functions should be delegated to a consortium of universities and industry.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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seb146
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:59 pm

anrec80 wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Weren't you conservatives complaining about so called "death panels" when complaining about the ACA? It's not okay if the government does it, but if the wealthy elites do, all is dandy?


When the situation gets to this point, everyone will be in one boat - both wealthy elites and average Joes.


Nope and nope.

There are not many test kits to go around. The ones that are used are generally for those who have money and/or insurance. Not the "average joe". People are being fired and furloughed. How does that work with their barely-there insurance? Also, if people were making too much when they were working, they have only been out of work for two weeks, in some places. They still do not qualify for state assistance because they made too much over the last year or six months.

Totally the same problem the "wealthy elite" right?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:06 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So, in other words, the economy is more important than human life.


So you actually think the state of the economy and the level of healthcare are not related. Just wow.

Much to your surprise you will probably find, that countries with a strong economy also have the best healthcare systems.

As others have stated, the consequence of burning your economy down now is, that you will not be able to provide better healthcare in the future, which will probably end up costing more future lives than you can save today. The world is not perfect. Ressources are limited.


The United States HAD a strong economy. Those of us millions who were contributing to the "strong economy" could not afford health care. It is just getting worse. Especially with this administration's "send everyone back to work to prop up the economy" attitude. You realize how many people will get sick and even die from that? Why? Because we do not have affordable health care. We have a "save the very rich first" government. That must change.

I am not willing to sacrifice who knows how many for the sake of a few wealthy elites. You can, but many of us will refuse.

These same people who are saying it is okay to do this are the same people who insist that life begins at conception but once that life is viable outside, how dare they leech off the government. Every life is sacred, but only the life Republicans say is sacred.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
winginit
Posts: 2650
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:31 pm

anrec80 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Agreed. I think being quarantined until the end of April will be about the best we can expect.


And I personally think even this is too long. Generally, two weeks would suffice, while 30 days would be appropriate for hardest-hit areas such as NYC. There are parts of the country that aren't affected, such as rural Montana or Idaho. What coronavirus there? Obviously, you can start issuing recommendations on reasonably safely reopening those parts of the country, lifting retail and restaurant bans (with some reasonable restrictions, such as reduced capacity, fewer guests at a time). This will provide more confidence in business, and create an impression that the problem from national level going down to regional. And hopefully keep some businesses from making any drastic decisions such as laying off people, shutting down their shops, and such.


Are either of you medical professionals? If not, I think you'll find that your opinions on the duration of effective public restrictions are... entirely irrelevant. Those are best left to, you know, experts.
 
anrec80
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:50 pm

winginit wrote:
Are either of you medical professionals? If not, I think you'll find that your opinions on the duration of effective public restrictions are... entirely irrelevant. Those are best left to, you know, experts.


Together with that, medical professionals are just that - medical professionals. They are not experts in economics or state governance. Medical professionals focus on health of general public, and may or may not understand the impact of their recommendation on the country and society as the whole, and especially their future. And a smart President or governor must look at the recommendation of economics and business experts as well, not just medical professionals - even though the latter may seem as absolutely the highest priority at the moment. Otherwise, they are risking to find themselves without their country.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2580
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
There are not many test kits to go around. The ones that are used are generally for those who have money and/or insurance. Not the "average joe". People are being fired and furloughed. How does that work with their barely-there insurance? Also, if people were making too much when they were working, they have only been out of work for two weeks, in some places. They still do not qualify for state assistance because they made too much over the last year or six months.

Totally the same problem the "wealthy elite" right?


Test kits are generally available, and they are free. Yes, one will need to go to a local urgent care clinic to get a referral for such test, and it doesn't cost a lot - USD 300-400 out of pocket, and 150-200 with insurance (part of your deductible). For medical - there are Obamacare plans and CORBA, but I have seen many choosing to forego those to save some money. Yes, I do understand it's a hit for someone who had just been laid off or furloughed, but still a matter of priority. It would be helpful if the government covers urgent care clinic visits in addition to tests. Yes, these are gaps, but they are solvable.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:57 pm

anrec80 wrote:
winginit wrote:
Are either of you medical professionals? If not, I think you'll find that your opinions on the duration of effective public restrictions are... entirely irrelevant. Those are best left to, you know, experts.


Together with that, medical professionals are just that - medical professionals. They are not experts in economics or state governance. Medical professionals focus on health of general public, and may or may not understand the impact of their recommendation on the country and society as the whole, and especially their future. And a smart President or governor must look at the recommendation of economics and business experts as well, not just medical professionals - even though the latter may seem as absolutely the highest priority at the moment. Otherwise, they are risking to find themselves without their country.


I wonder where would medical professionals be when riots erupt over food and basic services not working if there is an economic depression.

Here is a glimpse of what's coming. But yeah we can't say a thing because we aren't experts, and we know nothing about medicine or viruses.

Hundreds of cars wait to receive food from the Greater Community Food Bank in Duquesne. Collection begins at noon.


https://twitter.com/andrewrush/status/1 ... 5859457024

And this is only the beginning. But no, most of us here a.net we have our jobs still and the government provides for us... until we wont.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Dahlgardo
Posts: 364
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
The United States HAD a strong economy. Those of us millions who were contributing to the "strong economy" could not afford health care. It is just getting worse. Especially with this administration's "send everyone back to work to prop up the economy" attitude. You realize how many people will get sick and even die from that? Why? Because we do not have affordable health care. We have a "save the very rich first" government. That must change.

I am not willing to sacrifice who knows how many for the sake of a few wealthy elites. You can, but many of us will refuse.

These same people who are saying it is okay to do this are the same people who insist that life begins at conception but once that life is viable outside, how dare they leech off the government. Every life is sacred, but only the life Republicans say is sacred.


I'm by no means a fan of the US healthcare system. I think it's a disgraceful system, but fortunately it's unique in the western world.

I was referring to the connection between a strong economy and a well run healthcare system in general terms.
You can't have one without the other.

Suggesting that we can just blindly run our economies into the ground, and expect to have the same level or better healthcare in the future is very naive.
I know there is a balance to get right with regards to the covid-19 pandemic, but you cannot blindly sacrifice everything now without thinking about the future concequences.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
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seb146
Posts: 21734
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pm

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
There are not many test kits to go around. The ones that are used are generally for those who have money and/or insurance. Not the "average joe". People are being fired and furloughed. How does that work with their barely-there insurance? Also, if people were making too much when they were working, they have only been out of work for two weeks, in some places. They still do not qualify for state assistance because they made too much over the last year or six months.

Totally the same problem the "wealthy elite" right?


Test kits are generally available, and they are free. Yes, one will need to go to a local urgent care clinic to get a referral for such test, and it doesn't cost a lot - USD 300-400 out of pocket, and 150-200 with insurance (part of your deductible). For medical - there are Obamacare plans and CORBA, but I have seen many choosing to forego those to save some money. Yes, I do understand it's a hit for someone who had just been laid off or furloughed, but still a matter of priority. It would be helpful if the government covers urgent care clinic visits in addition to tests. Yes, these are gaps, but they are solvable.


But we can not solve those gaps because it is socialism. That is the whole Republican argument for affordable health care. We do not want affordable health care because it is socialism and we hate socialism.

I believe that tune will change, thankfully.

If your prices are correct, those are still expensive. That is still food being taken away. Rent that will be short. Utilities will be short. Profit before people. Every life is sacred but profit is the most important. Praise God these companies can still charge people and turn those away who can not afford health care. As the Bible says. As Jesus wants. Profit before people, says the party of life.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
anrec80
Posts: 2580
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
But we can not solve those gaps because it is socialism. That is the whole Republican argument for affordable health care. We do not want affordable health care because it is socialism and we hate socialism.


I agree with you that there are a lot of issues with today's USA healthcare, just as with Canadian and Western European one. Getting it right takes a lot of time and is really costly. It's a matter of at least a decade, not a legislature package passed amid coronavirus.


seb146 wrote:
If your prices are correct, those are still expensive. That is still food being taken away. Rent that will be short. Utilities will be short. Profit before people. Every life is sacred but profit is the most important. Praise God these companies can still charge people and turn those away who can not afford health care. As the Bible says. As Jesus wants. Profit before people, says the party of life.


I agree, but here and now this is the best offering that can be out there.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:17 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps an idea - separate from the main COVID-19 thread - to offer up ideas how YOU would handle the pandemic. It is easy to criticize those who are in charge (bit guilty myself of that), so why not contribute something constructive?

"If I was Governor, I would...."

1) Close all establishments until mid-April that cater to groups more than 10 people in one room (Schools, Restaurants, Sports clubs, etc.)
2) Restaurants can do take-out, but no seat-ins (small places could e.g. have their waiter deliver the food instead of waiting on customers).
3) Require businesses with employees that interact face-to-face with customers (think supermarket personnel, barbers, etc.) to protect their employees from harm. This can simply be done by e.g. placing a plastic screen between the teller and the customer, provide masks, gloves, etc.
4) Require supermarkets to immediately institute "Elderly shopping hours" for those 65+.
5) Require supermarkets to curtail hoarding by limiting the number of units of one item someone can buy.
6) Urge people to practice Social Distancing (S.D. ) a minimum 7-10 feet.
7) Allow hospitals to potentially make their own protective clothing if needed (I have seen on Dutch TV one example that seems to work well)
8 ) Ban all visits until further notice to those most vulnerable, like those living in nursing homes.
9) Require those businesses that can let their employees work from home do so (most obvious would be those that do desk work). All other businesses should practice S.D. and preferable work with a "skeleton crew" or shifts (once again, no more than 10 people in one room).

I would not be in favor of a total lock-down, nor curfews. I think that would do more harm to the economy than warranted.

I would hopefully have access to some emergency funding to help those that suffer the most from this crisis, and try to get treatments to those in need as fast as possible. If that means forking over $$$ for an experimental drug or whatever, so be it.


Lots of those measures have been taken up without government mandates.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11164
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Re: "If I was Governor, I would handle the COVID-19 Pandemic like this..."

Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:23 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
winginit wrote:
Are either of you medical professionals? If not, I think you'll find that your opinions on the duration of effective public restrictions are... entirely irrelevant. Those are best left to, you know, experts.


Together with that, medical professionals are just that - medical professionals. They are not experts in economics or state governance. Medical professionals focus on health of general public, and may or may not understand the impact of their recommendation on the country and society as the whole, and especially their future. And a smart President or governor must look at the recommendation of economics and business experts as well, not just medical professionals - even though the latter may seem as absolutely the highest priority at the moment. Otherwise, they are risking to find themselves without their country.


I wonder where would medical professionals be when riots erupt over food and basic services not working if there is an economic depression.

Here is a glimpse of what's coming. But yeah we can't say a thing because we aren't experts, and we know nothing about medicine or viruses.

Hundreds of cars wait to receive food from the Greater Community Food Bank in Duquesne. Collection begins at noon.


https://twitter.com/andrewrush/status/1 ... 5859457024

And this is only the beginning. But no, most of us here a.net we have our jobs still and the government provides for us... until we wont.


Sure, we can have opinions from non-experts. Though it’s easier to take someone seriously when they are an actual forumer and are not playing games.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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