anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:13 am

Dutchy wrote:
One more thing about this, if it is the will of the people, why not have full democracy, with a fully free press, a fully independent justice system, fully free elections? I mean if it is the will of the people, it should not matter, right?


I am absolutely not against full democracy, free press, elections and independent justice system. But I also am in favor that each nation should decide for itself up to what degree, if any, to have democracy, freedom of press (and what restrictions/responsibilities/liabilities to impose), how to compose and run justice system. There should be no universal definitions of these things imposed from outside.
 
anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:26 am

Dutchy wrote:
> the test were subpar quality and thus unreliable, they were of Russian origin, so it could be that there were tests, but it is irrelevant because it isn't specific enough.


Russia manufactures a lot of medical supplies. Whether the tests are reliable or not, good or not, can be shown only by extensive lab testing, not speculations.

Dutchy wrote:
> Putin is indecisive, the Moscow mare is much more action gained, so restaurants will be closed and parks, so basically everything you said that Russia did great is gone.

Well, first - a question. Once you cannot go to a restaurant - are you happy that someone else elsewhere can no longer do the same?

So decisiveness in your view is thoughtless carpet unselective bans to the right and to the left, causing trillions in damages? I am not a fan of such measures for no reason. If you are imposing any temporary measure, you should indicate a) reasonable and realistic timelines and b) exit plan. Not just "indefinitely" or "until further notice" - this is what does the most shakeup, since people perceive temporary state as permanent and rework their long term plans.

Moscow mayor may have his grounds to need restaurant closure. Moscow differs from the rest of the country as much as Manhattan differs from rural America - totally different worlds. Moscow is much better connected to the world, has much greater share of population traveling internationally that any other region, by far. It's also much more densely populated. It's not coincidence that Moscow has most of country's coronavirus cases. But what's needed in Moscow isn't necessarily needed in a smaller or a mid-size city even as close as 300km away.

Dutchy wrote:
And if Russia is spared an Italian scenario, it isn't because of your Putin, but despite the Putin regime. one positive thing though, the referendum in which Putin will get another two terms is postponed.


No. It's because Russian authorities have prepared well for the virus and had processes and practices in place even before the first infected arrived into the country.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:08 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
One more thing about this, if it is the will of the people, why not have full democracy, with a fully free press, a fully independent justice system, fully free elections? I mean if it is the will of the people, it should not matter, right?


I am absolutely not against full democracy, free press, elections and independent justice system. But I also am in favor that each nation should decide for itself up to what degree, if any, to have democracy, freedom of press (and what restrictions/responsibilities/liabilities to impose), how to compose and run justice system. There should be no universal definitions of these things imposed from outside.


And yet you side with Orbán and other autocratic leaders. And you are against it in essence, because of all if this is an absolute necessity to even let the public have an informed opinion. So if you are going to argue that countries must decide for themselves, this is included, otherwise you just argue for autocratic leaders to do whatever they want. Orbán and the likes don't care what the public wants or needs, they care how to stay in power and how to make things better for themselves (essentially rob the country) and in order for them to do that, they need to centralize power more and more.

So you can't have an autocratic leader and have the will of the people, they are mutually exclusive. The same as you cannot have a wife being beaten en say she asked for it herself. And the last thing is your point of view, doesn't matter if you accept it here or not, it is in plain site.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:25 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
> the test were subpar quality and thus unreliable, they were of Russian origin, so it could be that there were tests, but it is irrelevant because it isn't specific enough.


Russia manufactures a lot of medical supplies. Whether the tests are reliable or not, good or not, can be shown only by extensive lab testing, not speculations.


And they did just that. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
> Putin is indecisive, the Moscow mare is much more action gained, so restaurants will be closed and parks, so basically everything you said that Russia did great is gone.

Well, first - a question. Once you cannot go to a restaurant - are you happy that someone else elsewhere can no longer do the same?


What a complete and utter bull question is that? Am I happy, no of course not, I do not wish other people harm, actually quite the opposite. That's why I wish ordinary Hungarians a good and free country and that's why I side with citizens and not, as opposed to you, with figures like Orbán and other autocratic leaders. That's the principle difference between you and me.

anrec80 wrote:
So decisiveness in your view is thoughtless carpet unselective bans to the right and to the left, causing trillions in damages?


What a complete and utter bull question is that? Am I happy, no of course not, I do not wish other people harm, actually quite the opposite. If this virus continue to spread, the economic damage will be much more severe. So better to act now, then to leave it at the roll of the dice. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?

anrec80 wrote:
I am not a fan of such measures for no reason.


Great, guess what: nobody is, but you might have. noticed that there is a very good reason for it. 840 confirmed cases in Russia today. See were this trend is leading to................. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?

anrec80 wrote:
If you are imposing any temporary measure, you should indicate a) reasonable and realistic timelines and b) exit plan. Not just "indefinitely" or "until further notice" - this is what does the most shakeup, since people perceive temporary state as permanent and rework their long term plans.


You need to be realistic and the point is that nobody knows, so giving any timeline is deceiving. What is happening in the grown-up world: inform the public why such measures are taken and give timelines when measures are going to be re-evaluated and why. But then. you have to have a public which is trained in dealing with unbiased information and can form an opinion on its own. You have to have trust in your government and if you have an autocratic government that only looks out for themselves, it takes a toll.
But to close the loop for this thread: Orbán wants to rule by decree indefinitely until he says otherwise. So you are basically in agreement that this measure of Orbán is wrong. Good to know.

anrec80 wrote:
Moscow mayor may have his grounds to need restaurant closure. Moscow differs from the rest of the country as much as Manhattan differs from rural America - totally different worlds. Moscow is much better connected to the world, has much greater share of population traveling internationally that any other region, by far.


In Russia, perhaps St. Petersburg is at the same level, but sure, the rest of the country is poor and thus traveling is not the first thing to spend money on. But as I understand it, Putin made a decree to close ALL bars and restaurants in the whole country. So even he disagrees with you.

It's also much more densely populated. It's not coincidence that Moscow has most of country's coronavirus cases. But what's needed in Moscow isn't necessarily needed in a smaller or a mid-size city even as close as 300km away.[/quote]

Your Putin disagrees with you. How hard is it for you to admit you are wrong?

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
And if Russia is spared an Italian scenario, it isn't because of your Putin, but despite the Putin regime. one positive thing though, the referendum in which Putin will get another two terms is postponed.


No. It's because Russian authorities have prepared well for the virus and had processes and practices in place even before the first infected arrived into the country.


The way the virus is spreading, the number of cases of confirmed infections makes that you are wrong. I still hope the Russians are speared an Italian scenario, but then the Putin regime needs to act and. act now.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Dutchy wrote:
And they did just that. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 19641.html

I don't know - all I came across was this article. 90% of it seems pure speculation, and I am not an expert to determine whether it is or not. However:

The “Vector” test, however, is approved by the World Health Organization (WHO), which means that everything should be in order, says Professor Jens Lundgren, head physician of the infectious diseases department of the Copenhagen National Hospital.



Dutchy wrote:
Am I happy, no of course not, I do not wish other people harm, actually quite the opposite. That's why I wish ordinary Hungarians a good and free country and that's why I side with citizens and not, as opposed to you, with figures like Orbán and other autocratic leaders. That's the principle difference between you and me.


I am also wishing Hungarians to build the country they would love and be proud of. The difference between you and me is that I believe it's up to them to determine what this country should be like, and you believe that you know that better and need to teach them how to properly live in their own country.If you noticed, I have never tried to teach you how to properly live in Netherlands, and neither do who you call "autocratic leaders".

Dutchy wrote:
What a complete and utter bull question is that? Am I happy, no of course not, I do not wish other people harm, actually quite the opposite. If this virus continue to spread, the economic damage will be much more severe. So better to act now, then to leave it at the roll of the dice. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


In order to have an economic damage, there ought to be an economy. And all these carpet bans are perfectly capable of leaving you without one, and together with economy goes your healthcare, public safety and many other things. Not only you will not stop this one, you will be helpless before any subsequent one. Hence of course you have to consider economic impact and be very selective, as opposed to decisive.

Dutchy wrote:
Great, guess what: nobody is, but you might have. noticed that there is a very good reason for it. 840 confirmed cases in Russia today. See were this trend is leading to................. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


840 cases are up-to-date, out of them 182 being new for the past 24 hours nationwide. Out of 840, 546 are in Moscow.

Dutchy wrote:
You need to be realistic and the point is that nobody knows, so giving any timeline is deceiving. What is happening in the grown-up world: inform the public why such measures are taken and give timelines when measures are going to be re-evaluated and why. But then. you have to have a public which is trained in dealing with unbiased information and can form an opinion on its own. You have to have trust in your government and if you have an autocratic government that only looks out for themselves, it takes a toll.


It's exactly absence of timelines and exit strategies that kills all the confidence that government officials are aware and in control, and even that they know what they are doing. Like it or not, gotta be reasonable, provide realistic timelines on when restrictions start getting lifted. And like it or not, but actually do start removing least effective ones earlier on. Otherwise you will simply have no economy and no society left.

Dutchy wrote:
But to close the loop for this thread: Orbán wants to rule by decree indefinitely until he says otherwise. So you are basically in agreement that this measure of Orbán is wrong. Good to know.


If Orban and Hungarians are OK with it - let them have it. I have no opinion on this.

Dutchy wrote:
In Russia, perhaps St. Petersburg is at the same level, but sure, the rest of the country is poor and thus traveling is not the first thing to spend money on. But as I understand it, Putin made a decree to close ALL bars and restaurants in the whole country. So even he disagrees with you.


Not my understanding. Moscow mayor did issue such order, but it's not countrywide. Countrywide - night clubs, hookah, mass events and such. Restaurants, bars, retail - there is no countrywide ban; each region issues their own guidelines. Some cities/regions issued takeout only, others - restrict capacity. And even that - it's for one week only so far.

Dutchy wrote:
And if Russia is spared an Italian scenario, it isn't because of your Putin, but despite the Putin regime. one positive thing though, the referendum in which Putin will get another two terms is postponed.


The referendum, just as Orban's desire to whatever, is internal Russian business. Whether or not they want to do the referendum, and whether or not allow Putin two more terms - it's solely Russian matter. I have no opinion on this.

Dutchy wrote:
The way the virus is spreading, the number of cases of confirmed infections makes that you are wrong. I still hope the Russians are speared an Italian scenario, but then the Putin regime needs to act and. act now.


The peak isn't reached in vast majority of places (I think China is almost done, and Italy has peaked, but nobody else). It's about when the peak is reached, and what it will be. But Russia's healthcare system is preparing all capacity they can reach. Hopefully it's not needed.
 
alfa164
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:37 pm

zkojq wrote:
Arguing with a Russian Nationalist is completely pointless. Not sure why people bother.


"Russian nationalist" is a more mundane term than I would like to use; unfortunately, A.net doesn't like it when we use the "t" word... even though "Russian t--ll" does seem like a more apt description.


zkojq wrote:
One thing I like about the pandemic is that stupid leaders who treat the virus as a conspiracy against then or whatever will have their stupidity reflected in the death count. Bolsonaro, Trump, Putin etc. And those who follow them loyally and don't take the relevant precautions will be at the highest risk of kicking the bucket.


It could be a new form of Political Darwinism; if the cult-like followers of these demagogues believe what they are told, they will be the ones who suffer the consequences, and - voila! - only the more enlightened voters remain alive.

I guess there is a silver lining...

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:40 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
And they did just that. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 19641.html

I don't know - all I came across was this article. 90% of it seems pure speculation, and I am not an expert to determine whether it is or not. However:

The “Vector” test, however, is approved by the World Health Organization (WHO), which means that everything should be in order, says Professor Jens Lundgren, head physician of the infectious diseases department of the Copenhagen National Hospital.



Dutchy wrote:
Am I happy, no of course not, I do not wish other people harm, actually quite the opposite. That's why I wish ordinary Hungarians a good and free country and that's why I side with citizens and not, as opposed to you, with figures like Orbán and other autocratic leaders. That's the principle difference between you and me.


I am also wishing Hungarians to build the country they would love and be proud of. The difference between you and me is that I believe it's up to them to determine what this country should be like, and you believe that you know that better and need to teach them how to properly live in their own country.If you noticed, I have never tried to teach you how to properly live in Netherlands, and neither do who you call "autocratic leaders".

Dutchy wrote:
What a complete and utter bull question is that? Am I happy, no of course not, I do not wish other people harm, actually quite the opposite. If this virus continue to spread, the economic damage will be much more severe. So better to act now, then to leave it at the roll of the dice. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


In order to have an economic damage, there ought to be an economy. And all these carpet bans are perfectly capable of leaving you without one, and together with economy goes your healthcare, public safety and many other things. Not only you will not stop this one, you will be helpless before any subsequent one. Hence of course you have to consider economic impact and be very selective, as opposed to decisive.

Dutchy wrote:
Great, guess what: nobody is, but you might have. noticed that there is a very good reason for it. 840 confirmed cases in Russia today. See were this trend is leading to................. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


840 cases are up-to-date, out of them 182 being new for the past 24 hours nationwide. Out of 840, 546 are in Moscow.

Dutchy wrote:
You need to be realistic and the point is that nobody knows, so giving any timeline is deceiving. What is happening in the grown-up world: inform the public why such measures are taken and give timelines when measures are going to be re-evaluated and why. But then. you have to have a public which is trained in dealing with unbiased information and can form an opinion on its own. You have to have trust in your government and if you have an autocratic government that only looks out for themselves, it takes a toll.


It's exactly absence of timelines and exit strategies that kills all the confidence that government officials are aware and in control, and even that they know what they are doing. Like it or not, gotta be reasonable, provide realistic timelines on when restrictions start getting lifted. And like it or not, but actually do start removing least effective ones earlier on. Otherwise you will simply have no economy and no society left.

Dutchy wrote:
But to close the loop for this thread: Orbán wants to rule by decree indefinitely until he says otherwise. So you are basically in agreement that this measure of Orbán is wrong. Good to know.


If Orban and Hungarians are OK with it - let them have it. I have no opinion on this.

Dutchy wrote:
In Russia, perhaps St. Petersburg is at the same level, but sure, the rest of the country is poor and thus traveling is not the first thing to spend money on. But as I understand it, Putin made a decree to close ALL bars and restaurants in the whole country. So even he disagrees with you.


Not my understanding. Moscow mayor did issue such order, but it's not countrywide. Countrywide - night clubs, hookah, mass events and such. Restaurants, bars, retail - there is no countrywide ban; each region issues their own guidelines. Some cities/regions issued takeout only, others - restrict capacity. And even that - it's for one week only so far.

Dutchy wrote:
And if Russia is spared an Italian scenario, it isn't because of your Putin, but despite the Putin regime. one positive thing though, the referendum in which Putin will get another two terms is postponed.


The referendum, just as Orban's desire to whatever, is internal Russian business. Whether or not they want to do the referendum, and whether or not allow Putin two more terms - it's solely Russian matter. I have no opinion on this.

Dutchy wrote:
The way the virus is spreading, the number of cases of confirmed infections makes that you are wrong. I still hope the Russians are speared an Italian scenario, but then the Putin regime needs to act and. act now.


The peak isn't reached in vast majority of places (I think China is almost done, and Italy has peaked, but nobody else). It's about when the peak is reached, and what it will be. But Russia's healthcare system is preparing all capacity they can reach. Hopefully it's not needed.


On the surfice your train of thought seems all so reasenable, but think about it for two seconds and all falls apart. So it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in Syria: internal matter and if the Syrians wanted another direction why support one fraction?, it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in Crimea, was an internal Ukrainian matter and Putin send in the troops, it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in oppresing Russians. Food for thought, dear Russian troll, you say that North Koreans want to life in North Korea just as it is..............
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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zkojq
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:45 pm

alfa164 wrote:
"Russian nationalist" is a more mundane term than I would like to use; unfortunately, A.net doesn't like it when we use the "t" word... even though "Russian t--ll" does seem like a more apt description.


Likewise, but I'd rather not be banned. :lol:

alfa164 wrote:
It could be a new form of Political Darwinism; if the cult-like followers of these demagogues believe what they are told, they will be the ones who suffer the consequences, and - voila! - only the more enlightened voters remain alive.


Exactly. The axis of incompetence (BoJo, Trump, Modi, Bolsonaro, Duterte) universally respond with incompetence to a pending crisis and the results will be exactly as one would expect.
First to fly the 787-9
 
anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:
On the surfice your train of thought seems all so reasenable, but think about it for two seconds and all falls apart.


Sure, let’s see.

Dutchy wrote:
So it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in Syria: internal matter and if the Syrians wanted another direction why support one fraction?,


Early on, in Syria there were some people like “democratic opposition”, then there was some “Free Syrian Army”, but it was never clear who they were, whom they represent (other than themselves), what support and where do they have. A bit later on, there was some “moderate opposition” with the same issues. And by 2015, there were only two “fractions” - official government and ISIS. And with the latter everything is clear to everyone. Russia went in upon an agreement with the official government to help handle ISIS.

Dutchy wrote:
it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in Crimea, was an internal Ukrainian matter and Putin send in the troops, it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in oppresing Russians.


Crimean story is entirely different and clear. It had always had its own Parliament, and their Parliament has made a decision to have the voting on peninsula’s future, which happened. Note that the decision was triggered because people feared for their life and safety, having had issues with gangs employed by new Kiev regime to “stabilize the situation” (as they viewed it). Russia helped provide safe environment for Crimeans to decide on their future, but was not involved in any decisions.

Dutchy wrote:
Food for thought, dear Russian troll, you say that North Koreans want to life in North Korea just as it is..............


North Korea is the same as everyone - they need to figure it out themselves. Any advice from outside won’t do any good.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:29 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
On the surfice your train of thought seems all so reasenable, but think about it for two seconds and all falls apart.


Sure, let’s see.

Dutchy wrote:
So it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in Syria: internal matter and if the Syrians wanted another direction why support one fraction?,


Early on, in Syria there were some people like “democratic opposition”, then there was some “Free Syrian Army”, but it was never clear who they were, whom they represent (other than themselves), what support and where do they have. A bit later on, there was some “moderate opposition” with the same issues. And by 2015, there were only two “fractions” - official government and ISIS. And with the latter everything is clear to everyone. Russia went in upon an agreement with the official government to help handle ISIS.

Dutchy wrote:
it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in Crimea, was an internal Ukrainian matter and Putin send in the troops, it makes you an hypocriet that you support Putin in oppresing Russians.


Crimean story is entirely different and clear. It had always had its own Parliament, and their Parliament has made a decision to have the voting on peninsula’s future, which happened. Note that the decision was triggered because people feared for their life and safety, having had issues with gangs employed by new Kiev regime to “stabilize the situation” (as they viewed it). Russia helped provide safe environment for Crimeans to decide on their future, but was not involved in any decisions.

Dutchy wrote:
Food for thought, dear Russian troll, you say that North Koreans want to life in North Korea just as it is..............


North Korea is the same as everyone - they need to figure it out themselves. Any advice from outside won’t do any good.


Your argument basically is: it is the Jew's own fault that they got gassed in Auzwitch. It was their wish, because ALL governments are the will of the people as are their policies.

See how ridiculous your argument is?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:51 pm

Dutchy wrote:

Your argument basically is: it is the Jew's own fault that they got gassed in Auzwitch. It was their wish, because ALL governments are the will of the people as are their policies.

See how ridiculous your argument is?


I don't see any equivalency anywhere here, in either case. Gas someone in Auschwitz chamber is a murder (assuming there is no court decision for a crime that requires capital punishment). Giving an order to gas certain group of people in a place like Auschwitz is a war crime, plain and simple. Neither Assad nor Putin have ever did anything along these lines. These questions go to the other fraction - they did for sure.

Both Russians in Russia and Syrians in Syria support their leadership. Hence they aren't victims of anything. This comparison is simply like comparing apples to oranges.
 
jordanh
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:28 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Early on, in Syria there were some people like “democratic opposition”, then there was some “Free Syrian Army”, but it was never clear who they were, whom they represent (other than themselves), what support and where do they have. A bit later on, there was some “moderate opposition” with the same issues. And by 2015, there were only two “fractions” - official government and ISIS. And with the latter everything is clear to everyone. Russia went in upon an agreement with the official government to help handle ISIS.


That is a lie. But it does fit in with Russia propaganda and disinformation campaigns.

"Syria’s civil war doesn’t have two clearly defined sides. Hundreds of opposition groups have taken up arms against the Assad government—and sometimes each other. The conflict has also become a proxy war for countries including the United States, Russia, Iran, and Turkey. Not to mention the Kurds, Hezbollah, and ISIS."


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... -fighters/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39528673
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Syria ... ons-543373

anrec80 wrote:
Crimean story is entirely different and clear. It had always had its own Parliament, and their Parliament has made a decision to have the voting on peninsula’s future, which happened. Note that the decision was triggered because people feared for their life and safety, having had issues with gangs employed by new Kiev regime to “stabilize the situation” (as they viewed it). Russia helped provide safe environment for Crimeans to decide on their future, but was not involved in any decisions.


That is another lie, but it really parrots Putin's own lies, too:

"But in 2014, Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine in an illegal move that violated the territorial integrity of the former Soviet republic, and sparked a war that has displaced nearly 2 million people and destroyed the country’s infrastructure. Russian President Vladimir Putin’s justifies the aggression, in part, by asserting that Crimea is mostly comprised of ethnic Russians."

https://www.history.com/news/crimea-rus ... annexation

"In late February 2014, just days after the end of the Maidan Revolution and Victor Yanukovych’s flight from Kyiv, “little green men”—a term coined by Ukrainians—began seizing key facilities on the Crimean peninsula. The little green men were clearly professional soldiers by their bearing, carried Russian weapons, and wore Russian combat fatigues, but they had no identifying insignia. Vladimir Putin originally denied they were Russian soldiers; that April, he confirmed they were."

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-fr ... esolution/
 
anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:51 pm

jordanh wrote:
"Syria’s civil war doesn’t have two clearly defined sides. Hundreds of opposition groups have taken up arms against the Assad government—and sometimes each other. The conflict has also become a proxy war for countries including the United States, Russia, Iran, and Turkey. Not to mention the Kurds, Hezbollah, and ISIS."[/i]


This is what I am talking about as well. Nobody knows what those "opposition groups" were, where they came from, whom they represented and whom they were organized by. But nonetheless by 2015 there were just Assad and ISIS. Nobody knows what happened to those opposition groups either - have they merged with ISIS, became ISIS, or something else.


jordanh wrote:
"In late February 2014, just days after the end of the Maidan Revolution and Victor Yanukovych’s flight from Kyiv, “little green men”—a term coined by Ukrainians—began seizing key facilities on the Crimean peninsula. The little green men were clearly professional soldiers by their bearing, carried Russian weapons, and wore Russian combat fatigues, but they had no identifying insignia. Vladimir Putin originally denied they were Russian soldiers; that April, he confirmed they were."


This is outdated information by now. Nobody in Kiev calls the 2014 armed coup a "revolution" anymore. And now in Kiev they investigate who among those in charge of the coup basically surrendered Crimea by deliberately and knowingly choosing to not issue any orders or do anything about it.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:27 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Your argument basically is: it is the Jew's own fault that they got gassed in Auzwitch. It was their wish, because ALL governments are the will of the people as are their policies.

See how ridiculous your argument is?


I don't see any equivalency anywhere here, in either case. Gas someone in Auschwitz chamber is a murder (assuming there is no court decision for a crime that requires capital punishment). Giving an order to gas certain group of people in a place like Auschwitz is a war crime, plain and simple.


Hey, if the leadership ordered it, and the leadership is always what the people want, whom are we to judge if it is a war crime or not?

-- Your argument, not mine.

See how ridiculous your argument is?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
jordanh
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:51 pm

anrec80 wrote:
But nonetheless by 2015 there were just Assad and ISIS. Nobody knows what happened to those opposition groups either - have they merged with ISIS, became ISIS, or something else.


You are lying again. I provided facts and citations from 2017, 2018, and 2019. All you offer is false claims, with nothing to support them.


anrec80 wrote:
This is outdated information by now. Nobody in Kiev calls the 2014 armed coup a "revolution" anymore. And now in Kiev they investigate who among those in charge of the coup basically surrendered Crimea by deliberately and knowingly choosing to not issue any orders or do anything about it.


Again, I provided sources and facts, while you just spew your Russian propaganda.

You type of disinformation should be banned.
 
alfa164
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:53 pm

jordanh wrote:
You type of disinformation should be banned.


You didn't really expect any real pravda from a Russian t--ll, did you?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:33 pm

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
I am not a fan of such measures for no reason.


Great, guess what: nobody is, but you might have. noticed that there is a very good reason for it. 840 confirmed cases in Russia today. See were this trend is leading to................. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


1.036 today. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Dutchy wrote:
1.036 today. How hard is it for you to say: I was wrong?


Country-wide - yes, 1036, 196 being new, out of them 157 - in Moscow, 39 - the rest of the country. But The City of Moscow did impose stronger restrictions, and they are monitoring situation in other regions. I don't see any contradiction.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Hungary to consider bill that would allow Orbán to rule by decree

Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:42 pm

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