anshabhi
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Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:12 am

Creating a seperate thread for India because the challenges faced here are quite different from western countries.

1. Dmart and Reliance Smart earlier promise they will remain open from 7 AM- 11PM everyday.
2. Day 4 into lockdown, both close at 3 PM.
3. On day 5, neither open as a nation wide curfew is declared.
4. Smaller grocery sellers selling potato and tomato at ₹60/kg, up from ₹20/kg.
5. Both Amazon & Flipkart stop all non-essential deliveries

We still have 21 days more of this nation wide lockdown to go.

At this point, I feel Modi govt might be making a choice between mass starvation and coronavirus.
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:47 am

Not sure about your India-specific challenges, buddy. Can't speak to them. We're all in a very similar boat.

Hang in there.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:11 am

Aeroflot777 wrote:
Not sure about your India-specific challenges, buddy. Can't speak to them. We're all in a very similar boat.

Hang in there.


The thing with India is, top 10% of our population has 70% of wealth. So you're talking about roughly 1.2 billion people sharing $1 trillion of GDP.

Many many of these 1.2 billion people

At least 90% of India's workforce is employed in the informal sector, according to the International Labour Organization, working in roles like security guards, cleaners, rickshaw pullers, streets vendors, garbage collectors and domestic helps.

Most do not have access to pensions, sick leave, paid leave or any kind of insurance. Many do not have bank accounts, relying on cash to meet their daily needs
.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-52002734
 
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CPS001
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:52 am

Modi was being called out by the opposition for not doing enough so at least he acted decisively. I think lockdown was the best option; better than doing nothing at least. Border and airport checks seem to have been done thoroughly. Still only time will tell the true extent of the spread.

I'm in the US but my family in Chennai is in good spirits, at least for now. I expect there'll be some sort of handout system for the poor, might be delegated to the state governments. They could mobilize the ration shops.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:18 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 1C12G?il=0

(Related enough)

WTF India?!! No, BAD India. Don't be dumb. You need those doctors.
情報
 
anshabhi
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:52 am

Read this tweet : Challenges in India against mass testing range from high costs (almost $60/person) to social shame and fears of ostracization

https://twitter.com/velumania/status/12 ... 2895501312
 
hkg82
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:58 am

A drastic move, but almost impossible to enforce given the size and population as well as limited government reach. The government needs to find a way to up the testing and contact tracing.

It's very much possible there are widespread unrecorded nCov infections in the poverty-stricken rural areas of the country, with some unfortunately succumbing to the illness but vast majority recovering and developing antibodies. I'm almost entirely convinced this is the case in India.
 
Sokes
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:10 pm

anshabhi wrote:
The thing with India is, top 10% of our population has 70% of wealth. So you're talking about roughly 1.2 billion people sharing $1 trillion of GDP.

I very much doubt that.
I know a small town where I used to shave for 6 Rs 12 years back. Agricultural land surrounding this town is sold for several lackhs Rs/ 100 squaremeter today.
Everybody with a little plot is basically crorepati today.

To come to topic:
Those who observed voluntary isolation can't go for shopping any more and will face hardship. Those who roamed had a chance to fill up stocks.
Why did I restrict my movement these last days when railways distributed migrant labor from cities all over the country?

I agree that if it had to be announced in full supermarkets may have faced anarchy. It just shows that those who acted responsible are the stupid now.
On the positive side: nobody starves in 3 weeks and the main wave will hit India many weeks after Europe/ US. Quite possible that by that time enough Oxygen supply equipment, even if second hand, will be available.

As always: one never knows Modi's next step.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:05 pm

The estimated fatality rate is 2% in India. Sure it is less than Iran, Spain, Italy, and China, but India lacks public medical infrastructure. A private hospital charges $1000/day to keep a patient on a ventilator.

It appears India requested WHO for a million test kits, not sure how many it will get. There is hardly any testing being done now.

So, praying at home is the best option.

And back to my fav topic, Modi loves to induce pain on poor, elderly and frail people. This gives yet another opportunity.

It is up to the local/state governments to feed their poor. When all this is done without any federal help, Modi will give another speech and bots on twitter will applaud so it will echo throughout the universe.

The government has no money like other countries. Low oil prices would have been a boon for the government if consumption remained high, without consumption oil tax revenue goes even further.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:21 pm

Jouhou wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-doctors/indian-doctors-evicted-over-coronavirus-transmission-fears-medical-body-idUSKBN21C12G?il=0

(Related enough)

WTF India?!! No, BAD India. Don't be dumb. You need those doctors.


China was complaining about Trump name-calling twice if you browse Indian regional news channels, there are hour-long programs repeating this on airways. They are literally saying China did this to make America weak.

One attorney filed a lawsuit against CCP/Xi Jinping in the State of Bihar.

Because politicians are spinning this as a foreign virus bought to them by airlines, they are turning against airline crew and probably even against medical professionals.

Some states rounded up foreigners and Indians returned from abroad and keeping close tabs on them.
 
ATCtower
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
The estimated fatality rate is 2% in India. Sure it is less than Iran, Spain, Italy, and China, but India lacks public medical infrastructure. A private hospital charges $1000/day to keep a patient on a ventilator.



So they’re about 1/20th of the coat of any hospital in America?

Absurd either way, just trying to point out how absurd healthcare costs can get.

My heart is certainly out to the people of India. If this gets out of control there, it will be really bad.
By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:59 pm

ATCtower wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
The estimated fatality rate is 2% in India. Sure it is less than Iran, Spain, Italy, and China, but India lacks public medical infrastructure. A private hospital charges $1000/day to keep a patient on a ventilator.



So they’re about 1/20th of the coat of any hospital in America?

Absurd either way, just trying to point out how absurd healthcare costs can get.

My heart is certainly out to the people of India. If this gets out of control there, it will be really bad.


Even worse, the cost in a high wage country like Germany isn't much higher than those costs in India... about double.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
pune
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:40 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
ATCtower wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
The estimated fatality rate is 2% in India. Sure it is less than Iran, Spain, Italy, and China, but India lacks public medical infrastructure. A private hospital charges $1000/day to keep a patient on a ventilator.



So they’re about 1/20th of the coat of any hospital in America?

Absurd either way, just trying to point out how absurd healthcare costs can get.

My heart is certainly out to the people of India. If this gets out of control there, it will be really bad.


Even worse, the cost in a high wage country like Germany isn't much higher than those costs in India... about double.

Best regards
Thomas


and if I'm not wrong they have socialized medicine which means the Government looks after them. America had Obamacare and now Trumpcare. And with this, Sanders might get a good chance because his platform is upping obamacare. The last I heard something like 1/4th of the population are still not covered in States. It is possible that after the virus thing is over, Sanders might have a better chance. But that's States.

Back home we neither have enough hospital beds, or ventilators, or even handwash. Prices for veggies and others have like quadrupled. I spent almost INR 500/- just for veggies and that too for only couple of days. All in all, we just don't know where and how things will pan out.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:22 am

Great action from Modi govt coming in for the welfare of poor. Announces $22.5 billion support package for weaker sections of Indian society

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india ... 73771.html

The only alarming concern that I have is finance ministry is extending all the deadlines by 3 months. Is the govt preparing for a 3 month long lockdown?
 
Sokes
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:31 am

Jouhou wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-doctors/indian-doctors-evicted-over-coronavirus-transmission-fears-medical-body-idUSKBN21C12G?il=0

(Related enough)

WTF India?!! No, BAD India. Don't be dumb. You need those doctors.


It's a collective society, so are housing societies. I know somebody who has a flat to rent. The housing society opposes that flats are rented to unmarried couples. Viruses are transmitted by strangers, not by relatives. Some days back my son wanted to play with a boy from the neighborhood. He was sent home, when the uncle of the boy, who lives in the same house, keeps roaming and visiting relatives.
I hope once the housing society gets the first serious case the person concerned just stays home to die.

Is there any country with hand wash facilities before supermarkets/ pharmacies?

Anybody knows if there are community transmissions in India? Newspaper claimed there aren't, but that's hard to imagine. Any hard data?


dtw2hyd wrote:
...
And back to my fav topic, Modi loves to induce pain on poor, elderly and frail people. This gives yet another opportunity.

People already suffered too much rain, and now Modi brings the virus.

dtw2hyd wrote:
...
It is up to the local/state governments to feed their poor.

Typical socialist mentality. Do you include poor people with more than two children in this?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:03 am

ATCtower wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
My heart is certainly out to the people of India. If this gets out of control there, it will be really bad.


Any reason to think it won't get out of control?

PS I am not a pessimist in asking this. Unfortunately.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:14 am

art wrote:
ATCtower wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
My heart is certainly out to the people of India. If this gets out of control there, it will be really bad.


Any reason to think it won't get out of control?

PS I am not a pessimist in asking this. Unfortunately.


"out of control" would imply it is currently under control...... which it very probably isn´t.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm

Lockdown is a must, social distancing is a must, there are no second thoughts about it, but I seriously doubt Modi's intelligence to implement anything properly.

The first dominos are already falling. How did they miss the welfare of the huge migratory population?
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news/ca ... o-featured
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news/hu ... o-featured

Police are enjoying brushing up their skills by beating the heck out of anyone including last-mile delivery workers, destroying vegetables and milk.
https://twitter.com/PritamM93973959/sta ... 1046045696
https://twitter.com/DeepDasgupta7/statu ... 2862361600
https://twitter.com/9987102050/status/1 ... 7798049793
https://twitter.com/yogitabhayana/statu ... 8324276224
https://twitter.com/tnagarguy/status/12 ... 4738568193

About the packages, Modi has a habit of summing up existing programs and claiming as new programs. So how India helped the poor would come out only after this is over. Modi also claims as if he is giving his money, not taxes collected by states enjoyed by the federal government.

I would be happy to be wrong and eat crow and buy into +ve PR than Billion+ suffering.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:50 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Great action from Modi govt coming in for the welfare of poor. Announces $22.5 billion support package for weaker sections of Indian society

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india ... 73771.html

The only alarming concern that I have is finance ministry is extending all the deadlines by 3 months. Is the govt preparing for a 3 month long lockdown?


The Hubei lockdown was about 2 months. South Korea also took about two months to get it in control. 2 months is probably realistic.

Assuming that 30% of Indians live in poverty (the reality is probably double that), this aid package amounts to around $50/poor person. Presumably it’s the first of many, or else it really isn’t going to do much.

I’m seeing far too many videos of the police wrecking food and essential supplies - literally smashing vegetables. They’re all over social media. Leaves me under the impression that not much thought went into planning this, nor were the plans actually shared with the frontline implementers - the police, for example.

No matter how you cut it, what we’ve seen so far reeks of very poor governance. Not enough planning, not enough briefing, not enough guidance. The left hand clearly doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. At the national level. At the state level. At the municipal level.

Let’s see how long it takes for them to clue in.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:11 pm

art wrote:
ATCtower wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
My heart is certainly out to the people of India. If this gets out of control there, it will be really bad.


Any reason to think it won't get out of control?

PS I am not a pessimist in asking this. Unfortunately.


Day time temperature going to be around 100F. Some places in Southern India up to 120F. Virus survival is very minimal.

Indians cover their nose and mouth with a handkerchief, while it is not as good as surgical/n95 it helps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief

Indians also wash their hands and feet more often than we do, it is a cultural thing. Traditionally Indians eat with the right hand and wash their feet before entering home not to track the dust from outside.
 
pune
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:59 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
art wrote:
ATCtower wrote:


Any reason to think it won't get out of control?

PS I am not a pessimist in asking this. Unfortunately.


Day time temperature going to be around 100F. Some places in Southern India up to 120F. Virus survival is very minimal.

Indians cover their nose and mouth with a handkerchief, while it is not as good as surgical/n95 it helps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief

Indians also wash their hands and feet more often than we do, it is a cultural thing. Traditionally Indians eat with the right hand and wash their feet before entering home not to track the dust from outside.


True but what you are saying applies to say 2% - 4% of the Indian population, the Indian middle-class. For the rest, where is the place or the water. In most shanties, they have a single room which doubles as the bedroom, the kitchen, the WC, everything. Even in the toilet program that Mr. Modi had started lot of them were forgotten or badly implemented. Forget about households, I had seen toilets in PSB Banks which were made after Mr. Modi said, for e.g. State Bank of India, Bank of India etc. and saw they were shoddily constructed. And shanties are all around us, no matter where you are, if you feel like, you can just go around the corner and check. If you do not have direct water connection then the possibility of people washing hand and feet goes out of window. I have seen women outside a community tap and they usually get 2-3 pots which need to take care of washing clothes, washing utensils and cooking. In such a scenario where do you see people doing what you are saying.

The economic impact of the lockdown is going to be enormous and many people have echoed it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1sgfNmrmXA (Vivek Kaul Economist )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2bGgR4Lkbg ( Prof. Arun Kumar, his work on black money and black economy was legendary. If Mr. Modi had read his material, we perhaps wouldn't have demonetization.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvlU-Yqf-EM (Prof. Jayati Ghosh) you should look up her youtube videos on budget this year and last year, worth listening too.

In either case, this would take a long long time to heal and that is if Govt. incentivizes the middle-class. Last few years, the Govt. has just raised taxes for middle-class but not given any incentive to raise savings. Until that doesn't happen, don't see any rosy picture or turnaround story.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:20 pm

pune wrote:
True but what you are saying applies to say 2% - 4% of the Indian population, the Indian middle-class. For the rest, where is the place or the water. In most shanties, they have a single room which doubles as the bedroom, the kitchen, the WC, everything. Even in the toilet program that Mr. Modi had started lot of them were forgotten or badly implemented. Forget about households, I had seen toilets in PSB Banks which were made after Mr. Modi said, for e.g. State Bank of India, Bank of India etc. and saw they were shoddily constructed. And shanties are all around us, no matter where you are, if you feel like, you can just go around the corner and check. If you do not have direct water connection then the possibility of people washing hand and feet goes out of window. I have seen women outside a community tap and they usually get 2-3 pots which need to take care of washing clothes, washing utensils and cooking. In such a scenario where do you see people doing what you are saying..


I could be wrong or my experience may be anecdotal but even the poorest make an attempt to wash their hands before eating. Poor are more exposed to heat than those living in climate-controlled houses.

I still cannot explain one thing, Indians try to keep themselves clean but they will make any public place a dump. Is personal hygiene more important that general hygiene?

I completely agree with your observations, Swatch Bharat Abhiyaan is a flop. But I think we are a tiny, tiny minority. Most people want to believe what is shown on TV or WhatsApp than their own eyes. The wife says Hyderabad is very clean now, my question to her is why there is a Dengue Fever outbreak every year. You can hide trash from human sight but musquitos know where it is.
 
pune
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:21 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

I could be wrong or my experience may be anecdotal but even the poorest make an attempt to wash their hands before eating. Poor are more exposed to heat than those living in climate-controlled houses.

I still cannot explain one thing, Indians try to keep themselves clean but they will make any public place a dump. Is personal hygiene more important that general hygiene?

I completely agree with your observations, Swatch Bharat Abhiyaan is a flop. But I think we are a tiny, tiny minority. Most people want to believe what is shown on TV or WhatsApp than their own eyes. The wife says Hyderabad is very clean now, my question to her is why there is a Dengue Fever outbreak every year. You can hide trash from human sight but musquitos know where it is.


What you are saying and what I'm saying are not fundamentally different but our ways of looking. Over the last decade or so, India as a whole has become both a water-stressed and a water-deficient country.

See for instance https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Bas ... _315873049 .

It all started around 2011 . See https://www.downtoearth.org.in/coverage ... ress-43764

and since that it has continued -

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/blog/wat ... ater-64737

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/cartoon/ ... mbai-64471

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/blog/wat ... ater-64737

it doesn't help that water is in the concurrent list. Which means more often than not, the policies of center and state are diametrically opposite or instead of helping each other, they try to undermine each other. Whether it's the same political party in the center and the state or opposite, doesn't matter. Even for the navami Ganga project, in the six years I think the community only met once and this was supposedly Mr. Modi's pet project. Now they have absorbed it and made a different name which is forgettable name. Something quite generic, my guess is so that people don't ask uncomfortable questions as they did for the Ganga Navami project.

About the hygeine aspect, it's because we have a sort of personal hygeine practise but not community hygeine consciousness and has also never been in our schools, colleges. I know of some alternative schools up in North India (Himachal, Garwhal) and some in south but most schools don't. In fact, I remember in my own school, (going 20 years back) , one day the school management decided that students will clean the whole school including toilets. While my mum didn't have an issue, most parents were outraged. And this was a semi-government, semi-private school. Our school fees in those days were hardly INR 100/- or thereabouts and that too only in 8th and 9th and later came to know for many parents that was also unaffordable (but that's another story altogether) . The New Education Policy was supposed to change all that but has been constantly undermined by the people who are supposed to implement it.

I have worked with a few schools and only came to know of couple of schools who gave any day-to-day administration of school and environment. See this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e81ik4q_04

If more schools would follow even the example that he has, we would have a revolution on our hands but vested interests wouldn't allow that.
 
pune
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:20 am

300 Migrant workers found in a container truck by Maharashtra Police, probably heading home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJf7-93CTI
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:28 am

About swach bharat abhiyan, as a resident Indian, I would say I say visible change across India now. I almost never see garbage dumped on the roads now, which was a very common occurrence earlier.
 
avier
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:37 am

pune wrote:
300 Migrant workers found in a container truck by Maharashtra Police, probably heading home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJf7-93CTI

The State govt should run special buses/trains for free to get these migrant and daily wagers back to their hometown/village.

Govt can spend on AI repatriation flights to bring back useless NRI's and others who didn't want to be in this country anyways. And if those types can pay to leave this country, they can pay to come back too. But no, they'll demand Indian govt to rescue them by crying and creating drama at airports, outside embassies, and on social media.

So similarly, hope the concerned govt's look into these migrant labourers plight, and offer relief transportation.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1904
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:33 pm

avier wrote:
The State govt should run special buses/trains for free to get these migrant and daily wagers back to their hometown/village.

Govt can spend on AI repatriation flights to bring back useless NRI's and others who didn't want to be in this country anyways. And if those types can pay to leave this country, they can pay to come back too. But no, they'll demand Indian govt to rescue them by crying and creating drama at airports, outside embassies, and on social media.

So similarly, hope the concerned govt's look into these migrant labourers plight, and offer relief transportation.


That assumes that state governments can come up with a plan for dealing with this in the short term. Can they? It’s not clear that they knew about this lockdown until a few days (or hours?) before it happened. Organizing this while everyone is stuck at home isn’t going to be easy. This is the natural end product of evidently poor planning; any effort now will probably miss the most vulnerable. But generally agree with the sentiment of better late than never.

In any case, all of this assumes that Indians actually care about day wagers in India. The relatively more-moneyed English-mediums and babudom sure as heck didn’t care about them before this. They didn’t care about them during bitterly cold winters or scorchingly hot summers in the past. Just worked then to the bone for a pittance instead. Why pretend to care now? Because the world is watching?
 
pune
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:32 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
avier wrote:
The State govt should run special buses/trains for free to get these migrant and daily wagers back to their hometown/village.

Govt can spend on AI repatriation flights to bring back useless NRI's and others who didn't want to be in this country anyways. And if those types can pay to leave this country, they can pay to come back too. But no, they'll demand Indian govt to rescue them by crying and creating drama at airports, outside embassies, and on social media.

So similarly, hope the concerned govt's look into these migrant labourers plight, and offer relief transportation.


That assumes that state governments can come up with a plan for dealing with this in the short term. Can they? It’s not clear that they knew about this lockdown until a few days (or hours?) before it happened. Organizing this while everyone is stuck at home isn’t going to be easy. This is the natural end product of evidently poor planning; any effort now will probably miss the most vulnerable. But generally agree with the sentiment of better late than never.

In any case, all of this assumes that Indians actually care about day wagers in India. The relatively more-moneyed English-mediums and babudom sure as heck didn’t care about them before this. They didn’t care about them during bitterly cold winters or scorchingly hot summers in the past. Just worked then to the bone for a pittance instead. Why pretend to care now? Because the world is watching?


agree with the above. And I have a question for @avier. Is India the only country which did repartation flights. And how conveniently avier forgets how much the same people invest in India. Most people who become migrants are not becuse they want to, but because they have to, whether it is within the country or outside. Of course, I'm not the millionaires and billionaires like Akshay Kumar and others, they have a choice, I'm talking about the other 99% .

I had friends from States who came from India when they were told they will get 76% when in reality the people were not willing to pay not even 25%. And this has happened again and again, even had cases of people signing contracts and not putting it to fruition. Of course we do not have justice system that we can offer or tell citizens they will get justice quickly, painlessely etc. hence people in power can get away with murder. Why to go far ? The upaahar cinema case which happened in delhi in which the owners were let off scot-free, that itself shows how impotent our justice system is.

The case itself took over couple of decades to be decided and that when it was high-profile. About the countless others which are not high-profile the less said the better. We were supposed to get more high courts, more benches in supreme court, more infrastructure for law but nothing of that sort happened. And this was when Mr. Modi and Mr. Amit Shah had both said they want to expand the legal infrastructure, but nothing happened on that front in the last 6 odd years or so. I am from Pune and we were supposed to get our own bench but nothing happened of that sort happened, Still people have to go mumbai for the high court hearings. This is when this issue has been well-known for at least a decade if not more. I am sure people from other cities can give more inputs.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:50 pm

Indian Railways and State Transport Corporations should co-ordinate to arrange relief transport to migratory workers. These migration paths are well known, it shouldn't be that difficult to transport the majority.

This unplanned midnight announcement caught everyone who supposed to make it happen with their money off-guard.

I hope, with all the publicity, police are taking a step back.
https://twitter.com/ActuallyNANI/status ... 4114570242
https://twitter.com/Ashi_IndiaToday/sta ... 9246904320
https://twitter.com/nimeshika_j/status/ ... 2483047424
 
pune
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:06 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Indian Railways and State Transport Corporations should co-ordinate to arrange relief transport to migratory workers. These migration paths are well known, it shouldn't be that difficult to transport the majority.

This unplanned midnight announcement caught everyone who supposed to make it happen with their money off-guard.

I hope, with all the publicity, police are taking a step back.
https://twitter.com/ActuallyNANI/status ... 4114570242
https://twitter.com/Ashi_IndiaToday/sta ... 9246904320
https://twitter.com/nimeshika_j/status/ ... 2483047424


First see this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MugKyU67tPs

I do hope but not really. I know that cop mentality at least in the constabulary is stuck in last century. There have been lot of talk of police reforms just as IAS reforms which are still very much modeled on the british raj and still carries those ideas. There have been multiple attempts to reform but ultimately scuttled by people themselves. Even having women in the army is a big no-no but that is probably another thread for it entirely.

Btw some Indian students who were studying in Iran have been asking for help. Should India deny them ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D-cB1qU_2w

Also not helping our own people sends a very strong diplomatic as well as political message that our people can be played with unlike U.S. or people from other countries . Dunno if people remember the Italian marine commandoes who were let go even though they had murdered indian fishermen who were fishing in Indian waters within our Indian nautical borders. This happened few years back, the current administration let the italian sailors/commandoes off the hook. Just goes to show how much we care for our own people.
Last edited by pune on Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7895
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:15 pm

pune wrote:
Btw some Indian students who were studying in Iran have been asking for help. Should India deny them ?


Yesterday, Air India operated a special DEL-TLV flight evacuating Israelis, but it appears there is no blessing from Modi to bring back Indians from Iran. Looks like he rolled his eyes left. All communication is non-verbal, so there is no evidence.
 
pune
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:31 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
pune wrote:
Btw some Indian students who were studying in Iran have been asking for help. Should India deny them ?


Yesterday, Air India operated a special DEL-TLV flight evacuating Israelis, but it appears there is no blessing from Modi to bring back Indians from Iran. Looks like he rolled his eyes left. All communication is non-verbal, so there is no evidence.


I didn't get the non-verbal part. If you meant they were wearing whatever it is called, that is because they have to wear that. But yeah, it shows what concerns we have towards our own citizens. In other news, Boris Johnson the british PM apparently got the virus.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7895
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:41 pm

pune wrote:
I didn't get the non-verbal part.


Just like Tinder without swipe, roll eyes left or right on any issue. Babus make it happen. There is no written or audio evidence what he said.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:59 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
pune wrote:
I didn't get the non-verbal part.


Just like Tinder without swipe, roll eyes left or right on any issue. Babus make it happen. There is no written or audio evidence what he said.


Apparently the Supreme Court is looking into it.

As a side note, be careful of attributing to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7895
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:52 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
Apparently the Supreme Court is looking into it.

As a side note, be careful of attributing to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.


Looking into quid-pro-quo plum posts, like Rajya Sabha Membership.

Malice cannot be covered up by incompetence.
 
pune
Posts: 282
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:59 pm

came across this interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i78-lSLDNzo

Really puts into perspective lot of things.

Also see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJf7-93CTI

There were numerous reports in the media today of students and people walking for hundreds of kilometers to go to their hometown or be perished in the process. Apparently Govt. has nothing for these people.
 
Sokes
Posts: 768
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:11 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Day time temperature going to be around 100F. Some places in Southern India up to 120F. Virus survival is very minimal.


That was something I was wondering about.
In Goa shops are closed, but a few people drive around to visit relatives. I believe it's much less strict than in other states.
Goa's chief minister is BJP. It's hard to imagine that he wants to annoy Modi. Moreover he is an Ayurvedic doctor.

Or maybe Goa is already too liberal to accept the required police violence?

I think the first confirmed cases in Goa were two days back and these are people who brought it from abroad. That's hard to imagine considering how many people visit Goa.
Therefore I also believe that the risk of community infection may be small in Goa/ other hot places.
Do you have any links?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
pune
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:27 pm

Sokes wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Day time temperature going to be around 100F. Some places in Southern India up to 120F. Virus survival is very minimal.


That was something I was wondering about.
In Goa shops are closed, but a few people drive around to visit relatives. I believe it's much less strict than in other states.
Goa's chief minister is BJP. It's hard to imagine that he wants to annoy Modi. Moreover he is an Ayurvedic doctor.

Or maybe Goa is already too liberal to accept the required police violence?

I think the first confirmed cases in Goa were two days back and these are people who brought it from abroad. That's hard to imagine considering how many people visit Goa.
Therefore I also believe that the risk of community infection may be small in Goa/ other hot places.
Do you have any links?


Please take whatever is being shared with a pinch of salt. If you believe that, then what about Africa, they are as suffering as others. If there was any truth to the myth of summer temperature will limit the spread of the virus, it should not have happened there or happened very less. There it's going to explode as nowhere else which will weaken the African economies much more than anything else.

And I'm counting South Africa too, which among them is the most prosperous AFAIK . Dunno if people keep for news about South Africa but few months before there was lot of tension because of 'foreign-owned businesses' or the RW nationalist tendencies which we are seeing as elsewhere in the world. Now everybody would be in the same boat, unfortunately :(
Last edited by pune on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avier
Posts: 1024
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:28 pm

pune wrote:
agree with the above. And I have a question for @avier. Is India the only country which did repartation flights.


The better question to ask is how many countries do repatriation flights for free like India does? It's already a nice gesture for special flights to be arranged by a country, but those people travelling on it want it now for free? It's a different situation if they were refugees or illegal immigrants gone of to a foreign land; then yes they'd need a free ride back home.
https://loyaltylobby.com/2020/03/23/gov ... qus_thread

Also, I am not completely against that move of the govt. My bigger point was if they can do that for Indians/NRI's when stuck overseas, I'm sure they can provide relief to the migrant workers stranded in big cities in India and have no means of going home or surviving where they are.
But as someone else just shared a link of special trains for them, I'm glad the response of the govt was quick.



dtw2hyd wrote:
pune wrote:
Btw some Indian students who were studying in Iran have been asking for help. Should India deny them ?


Yesterday, Air India operated a special DEL-TLV flight evacuating Israelis, but it appears there is no blessing from Modi to bring back Indians from Iran. Looks like he rolled his eyes left. All communication is non-verbal, so there is no evidence.


There have already been couple of evacuation flights from Iran. Two to three by Air India and some were charted Mahan Air flights by the Indian govt.

So I'm not sure what fake info you're spreading here and linking it to Modi (???). Propaganda might be fun, but not in these dire times.

http://www.newsonair.com/Main-News-Deta ... ?id=383804
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 02720.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... id/1753966
 
pune
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:44 pm

avier wrote:

The better question to ask is how many countries do repatriation flights for free like India does? It's already a nice gesture for special flights to be arranged by a country, but those people travelling on it want it now for free? It's a different situation if they were refugees or illegal immigrants gone of to a foreign land; then yes they'd need a free ride back home.
https://loyaltylobby.com/2020/03/23/gov ... qus_thread


While you are correct on the point you shared but that is only because they don't have a lobby unlike the airlines who have paid lobbyists. IIRC, Mr. Trump already put a package of 50 billion dollars or something tor the airlines and they are demanding more. How is this any different ?

There are other things which you didn't share but I am bringing it to light. These flights are not AFAIK on commercial jet-liner but usually cargo planes with all the jerks and what not a cargo plane has. So it isn't as if the passenger or evacuee is getting even basic services as available as an economy J flight ticket. So it will be wrong to compare between the two. It is basically akin to trying to extract money from people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

avier wrote:

Also, I am not completely against that move of the govt. My bigger point was if they can do that for Indians/NRI's when stuck overseas, I'm sure they can provide relief to the migrant workers stranded in big cities in India and have no means of going home or surviving where they are.
But as someone else just shared a link of special trains for them, I'm glad the response of the govt was quick.

There have already been couple of evacuation flights from Iran. Two to three by Air India and some were charted Mahan Air flights by the Indian govt.

So I'm not sure what fake info you're spreading here and linking it to Modi (???). Propaganda might be fun, but not in these dire times.

http://www.newsonair.com/Main-News-Deta ... ?id=383804
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 02720.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... id/1753966


I am not sharing any fake news. Would you say the quint is spreading fake news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJf7-93CTI

Or newsclickin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i78-lSLDNzo

Or the wire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVRuJD4QVEI

Please see the videos and especially the wire because the gentleman being interviewed is the Mr. Pronob Sen, present Chairman of the Standing Committee on Economic Statistics.

I don't have any interest in passing any fake news.
 
avier
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:16 pm

pune wrote:
There are other things which you didn't share but I am bringing it to light. These flights are not AFAIK on commercial jet-liner but usually cargo planes with all the jerks and what not a cargo plane has. So it isn't as if the passenger or evacuee is getting even basic services as available as an economy J flight ticket. So it will be wrong to compare between the two. It is basically akin to trying to extract money from people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That is not entirely true. Apart from the 1-2 evacuations from Wuhan on the C130 Globemaster, most of the other evacuations were done on Air India commercial flights. Also, AI has no dedicated cargo planes. The evacuations were done on 744/77W/787 pax aircraft. All of of them are their regular comfy commercial aircrafts. So I'm not sure what your point is.
This was last one I think, to Rome.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1241630887000727552?s=19

pune wrote:
I am not sharing any fake news. Would you say the quint is spreading fake news

That was more so directed to the other user who makes it seem like no evacuations or efforts thereof have been made at all by Indian govt. , for evacuations from Iran. Most of the earlier evacuations, if you check the links I gave, comprised of Indian students in Iran.

You post links of thewire, etc of more people stuck there is another issue to be asked and bigger question as to why they weren't got back in the previous many evacuations happening till few days back.
 
pune
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:44 pm

avier wrote:
pune wrote:
There are other things which you didn't share but I am bringing it to light. These flights are not AFAIK on commercial jet-liner but usually cargo planes with all the jerks and what not a cargo plane has. So it isn't as if the passenger or evacuee is getting even basic services as available as an economy J flight ticket. So it will be wrong to compare between the two. It is basically akin to trying to extract money from people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That is not entirely true. Apart from the 1-2 evacuations from Wuhan on the C130 Globemaster, most of the other evacuations were done on Air India commercial flights. Also, AI has no dedicated cargo planes. The evacuations were done on 744/77W/787 pax aircraft. All of of them are their regular comfy commercial aircrafts. So I'm not sure what your point is.
This was last one I think, to Rome.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1241630887000727552?s=19

Thank you for correcting me. Well, I am glad that Indian Govt. is taking care of its people.

pune wrote:
I am not sharing any fake news. Would you say the quint is spreading fake news

That was more so directed to the other user who makes it seem like no evacuations or efforts thereof have been made at all by Indian govt. , for evacuations from Iran. Most of the earlier evacuations, if you check the links I gave, comprised of Indian students in Iran.

You post links of thewire, etc of more people stuck there is another issue to be asked and bigger question as to why they weren't got back in the previous many evacuations happening till few days back.


That is a good question, and frankly I have no idea.

That is actually something only a student who is studying there could perhaps share. From what little I know of embassies and while I have interacted with embassies for work, travel etc. they play a very limited role especially on foreign shores. What advisories were given by GOI to its expatriates and what the local law/sentiment was there at moment of time is probably a combination of things.

There was a series of travel documentaries I saw couple of years ago, one which shared natural disasters like Tsunami (which devasted economies like Sri Lanka, Thailand etc.) and terrorist activities like either the 26/11 or various terrorist events which happened around the world.

In both sort of situations, it was found that the travelers were confused and it took them quite some time, days in fact to take the flight back home.

The documentary was more focussed on how many of these economies which were dependant on tourist incomes never really bounced back to those days of innocence if one can think in those terms. It has been similar in India as well IIRC .

Should embassies make more attempt to reach out to their citizens and if yes, how ? What sort of advice should they be giving the citizens and in situations like these, how not to spread panic and spread things out a little are probably open questions for which I have no answers. I am sure there is a checklist for embassies somewhere. If somebody knows any better, feel free to share.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:02 pm

Aeroflot777 wrote:
Not sure about your India-specific challenges, buddy. Can't speak to them. We're all in a very similar boat.

Hang in there.


Totally disagree with this. India is a very young and poor country. It is also a hot weather country.

They have little to gain from a COVID lockdown. And they have a lot to lose. If people cannot work, many children will die because of that.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:07 pm

avier wrote:
That was more so directed to the other user who makes it seem like no evacuations or efforts thereof have been made at all by Indian govt. , for evacuations from Iran. Most of the earlier evacuations, if you check the links I gave, comprised of Indian students in Iran.


Well, are there any other instances of evacuation where courts have to get involved. If you want to present only positive news, sure do, doesn't mean the rest of the news is fake.

Justice Navin Chawla asked the Centre to assure the students of all assistance and to “do a little more” than what it has been doing till now to evacuate over 3,000 Indian nationals, including pilgrims, fishermen, and students, presently stranded in Iran.


Indians in Iran have been asking from the end of February. Why does Mahan has to help, AIr India has enough spare capacity to bring any amount of Indians. AI can even operate a separate flight for infected passengers. Where there is a will, there is a way, unless someone rolled their eyes left.
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... e-6311796/
 
pune
Posts: 282
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:52 am

Did you guys see the WHO conference which was shared by Print -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cXVK-nzx-8

See especially at between 36 to 40 minute . There was a question about India. The WHO head said that India needs to expand its testing capacity and expand its doctor-nurse forces as well as PPE, ventilators etc. otherwise we would be in vicious cycle of lockdown, people meeting, lockdown and so on and so forth which basically would just drain us. This has happened in other countries.

Also at the very outset the WHO head had shared that they had shared with India as well as other countries 2 months back that this virus ia dangerous one but some people took heed while others have not. For e.g. Brazil is still one holding out and it is possible that brazilians may have to pay a heavy price for decisions taken by Bolsanaro (their president) .

The wire interview I shared above with Pronob Sen is critical as it tells where the Central Governments as well as State Governments need to work together, otherwise we will definitely lose all the progress we have made over the years and decades. It is very real and a frightening possibility. I am not an alarmist but some hard questions need to be asked both of center and state by people.
 
Sokes
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:21 am

Not a knowledgeable opinion, but what I was wondering:
Why do relatives living in the same house get affected, but strangers rather not?
I heard a story of a Hindu returning home. In his road with Hindus many people got infected. However there is a road with Catholics in the same town or village (I'm not sure). There are no cases in this road.

I believe offering/ accepting a cup of tea is a bad idea. If one visits the sister in law, can one reject the offer for a cup of tea?
"What, does he think that I spread virus or what?"
Similar people just don't keep the one meter distance. Therefore house arrest is probably really the only working method.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
pune
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:04 am

Sokes wrote:
Not a knowledgeable opinion, but what I was wondering:
Why do relatives living in the same house get affected, but strangers rather not?
I heard a story of a Hindu returning home. In his road with Hindus many people got infected. However there is a road with Catholics in the same town or village (I'm not sure). There are no cases in this road.

I believe offering/ accepting a cup of tea is a bad idea. If one visits the sister in law, can one reject the offer for a cup of tea?
"What, does he think that I spread virus or what?"
Similar people just don't keep the one meter distance. Therefore house arrest is probably really the only working method.


Umm... I wouldn't categorize people based on hindu or non-hindu. What I believe and what science also tells us it's all about the immunity system. A very simple example to illustrate my point.

5 people go to a restaurant, 4 are ok and 1 develops reaction to the food. Now usually in the restaurant, people usually order few things and share between them. Now does this mean that the food wa bad or the person's immunity. As far as whether you are visiting sister-in-law, it's really upto you, you can be frank with her saying you are not comfortable due to the existing circumstances or give some excuse. It's really your call.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1940
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Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:16 am

For people in India who watch news, its no surprise that more than 400 people were evacuated from Iran so far. For various reasons, some Indians want to push it till last minute and then scream about it. Same thing happened in yemen few years back when India evacuated Indians, some chose to stay back (incl a christian priest, some nurses from kerala etc) and they were brought back later at huge cost. In Iran, the virus affected much earlier. What were these people doing? Same in Italy/Europe, people were still going on tours/honeymoons etc even end of Feb, and they had to be evacuated back. They don't want to lose their tickets or cut short their trips, and then file cases asking govt to bail them out. Have zero pity for those morons.

I am against tax payers paying for any evacuations. allow commercial flights to come in, and let the people pay for their flight back. Only places like Wuhan or Yemen should be exception, where there was no flights operating. Govt should allow international airlines to operate an allow only citizens in.

Coronavirus: 120 Indians from Iran to reach Jaisalmer today, to be quarantined at Army facility

Coronavirus update: 450 Indians evacuated from virus-hit Iran, Italy
 
blrsea
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:27 am

WHO , two months back, tweeted on Jan 14th that there was no proof of human to human transmission from Wuhan virus. Rich of them to say that they warned India and other countries 2 months back.

WHO's tweet

In Jan end, when US was contemplating ban on chines visitors , WHO argued its not good to do it. Now all countries are doing it. Irony is that Chinese is banning international flights

Health experts warn China travel ban will hinder coronavirus response

The World Health Organization, which declared the outbreak a global health emergency this week, has recommended against any travel or trade restrictions in response to the outbreak. Member countries, however, do not have to comply with that guidance.

“Although travel restrictions may intuitively seem like the right thing to do, this is not something that WHO usually recommends,” said Tarik Jašarević, a WHO spokesperson. “This is because of the social disruption they cause and the intensive use of resources required,” he added.
 
avier
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus India lockdown thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:15 am

blrsea wrote:
For people in India who watch news, its no surprise that more than 400 people were evacuated from Iran so far. For various reasons, some Indians want to push it till last minute and then scream about it. Same thing happened in yemen few years back when India evacuated Indians, some chose to stay back (incl a christian priest, some nurses from kerala etc) and they were brought back later at huge cost. In Iran, the virus affected much earlier. What were these people doing? Same in Italy/Europe, people were still going on tours/honeymoons etc even end of Feb, and they had to be evacuated back. They don't want to lose their tickets or cut short their trips, and then file cases asking govt to bail them out. Have zero pity for those morons.

I am against tax payers paying for any evacuations. allow commercial flights to come in, and let the people pay for their flight back. Only places like Wuhan or Yemen should be exception, where there was no flights operating. Govt should allow international airlines to operate an allow only citizens in.

Coronavirus: 120 Indians from Iran to reach Jaisalmer today, to be quarantined at Army facility

Coronavirus update: 450 Indians evacuated from virus-hit Iran, Italy

:checkmark:


That's the issue with ones not wanting to be part of the evacuation flights and then complaining of how they are stranded there. And then they'll cry on social media and blame the govt through propaganda news outlets, not even the mainstream kinds.
And another user is randomly pitching in some court case angle to these evacuations, which is against false and has no source to back that claim as usual. Some just like to throw fake news and propaganda here even in such times. Sad.

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