TTailedTiger
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Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:13 am

Not all businesses are being treated equally during this mess. If you are a restaurant then you can at least offer takeout and delivery and remain open. But you are screwed if you own a gym, hair salon, movie theater or other service deemed "nonessential". This is especially harmful to small businesses that can't withstand having their doors closed for months. These are legal businesses that have a license to operate in the city but the mayor has forced them to close. These businesses are having to either suspend memberships or offer refunds to their customers. They are being hit very hard. What kind of damages can these businesses seek against the cities? IMO not only should they seek reimbursement of any direct losses but they must also demand payment for future losses as business will be down for a while because of the power hungry mayor. Finally, punitive damages should also be awarded to make any future mayor think twice about pulling such a stunt. The city is now picking winners and loser in who they are allowing to operate. There is no question that the city failed to uphold their end of the agreement when they issued the business license.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:20 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
These are legal businesses that have a license to operate in the city but the mayor has forced them to close.


This is not isolated to the US. In the majority of countries where a lockdown is in place, the same businesses are shut. In Germany all of those business are shut, are they sueing the Mayor, Council or Govenment ? No. In the UK the govenment is providing massive support for business (not enough for self employed) to make it through. Restauarants are changing to take aways but other non essential shops are closed. Look at Italy and the rate of increase in infection and deaths in the US and Spain. This is not an over-reaction and there is no other choice.

If the Mayor didn't put in place these restrictions you'd probably be wanting him sued or tried for wrongful death or failure to protect the population. Typical US attitude. The rest of the world the govenment steps in, people rally together to support those who are struggling. In the US... "who can we sue". :roll:
Last edited by Reinhardt on Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:24 am

Reinhardt wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
These are legal businesses that have a license to operate in the city but the mayor has forced them to close.


This is not isolated to the US. In the majority of countries where a lockdown is in place, the same businesses are shut. In Germany all of those business are shut, are they sueing the Mayor, Council or Govenment ? No. In the UK the govenment is providing massive support for business (not enough for self employed) to make it through.

I think the Mayor would be held liable for gross misconduct if he left those business opens during a pandemic. Typical US attitude. The rest of the world the govenment steps in, people rally together to support those who are struggling. In the US... "who can we sue". :roll:


Give me liberty or give me death is the motto here. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on. Give the government an inch and they will take all they can. We are not in a time of war yet some mayors and governors are assuming the role of supreme leader. It's the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Give me liberty or give me death is the motto here. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on. Give the government an inch and they will take all they can. We are not in a time of war yet some mayors and governors are assuming the role of supreme leader. It's the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.


Nobody likes their rights trampled on. You think here in Germany with it's past people like a govenment telling it what to do? These are uncharted times, but listen to the medical evidence and see what's happened in other countries. It's so blatenty obvious these actions are in the publics best interest. It's temporary, to stop hundreds of thousands of people dieing. Yes the economy is and will suffer, but that's why you have govenments - to take actions and look after it's citizens in a crisis.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Give the government an inch and they will take all they can


Then you're voting for the wrong people.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:50 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
These are legal businesses that have a license to operate in the city but the mayor has forced them to close.


This is not isolated to the US. In the majority of countries where a lockdown is in place, the same businesses are shut. In Germany all of those business are shut, are they sueing the Mayor, Council or Govenment ? No. In the UK the govenment is providing massive support for business (not enough for self employed) to make it through.

I think the Mayor would be held liable for gross misconduct if he left those business opens during a pandemic. Typical US attitude. The rest of the world the govenment steps in, people rally together to support those who are struggling. In the US... "who can we sue". :roll:


Give me liberty or give me death is the motto here. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on. Give the government an inch and they will take all they can. We are not in a time of war yet some mayors and governors are assuming the role of supreme leader. It's the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.


Stop acting like the 10th Amendment, state constitutions and SCOTUS precedent don’t exist - this is not a free-for-all willy nilly power grab.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:01 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on.


Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person

Yes, most people do not like having their rights trampled on.


Fred
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

This is not isolated to the US. In the majority of countries where a lockdown is in place, the same businesses are shut. In Germany all of those business are shut, are they sueing the Mayor, Council or Govenment ? No. In the UK the govenment is providing massive support for business (not enough for self employed) to make it through.

I think the Mayor would be held liable for gross misconduct if he left those business opens during a pandemic. Typical US attitude. The rest of the world the govenment steps in, people rally together to support those who are struggling. In the US... "who can we sue". :roll:


Give me liberty or give me death is the motto here. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on. Give the government an inch and they will take all they can. We are not in a time of war yet some mayors and governors are assuming the role of supreme leader. It's the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.


Stop acting like the 10th Amendment, state constitutions and SCOTUS precedent don’t exist - this is not a free-for-all willy nilly power grab.


I have already provided you with opinion pieces from attorneys. Pennsylvania specifically had statutes dealing with mass illness but the governor ignored it and went for the statute intended for times of war and natural disaster. I get that oppressive government doesn't bother you. No need to keep arguing about it since we will never agree.

The government should not be in the business of who wins and who loses. I doubt there is any language in the business license agreement that says the mayor can arbitrarily shut you down.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:08 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on.


Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person

Yes, most people do not like having their rights trampled on.


Fred


The cities of Baltimore, Chicago, Memphis, etc will all suffer more murders this year than the coronavirus could ever hope to match. And we won't even get into DUI and car accidents.

Their mayors don't seem too worried about that. But coronavirus gives them an excuse to grab power and hold on to it. None have given a definite cutoff date. And what would you do to stop them if they wanted to keep the lockdown in place forever?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:17 am

The mayor could have done nothing, the businesses would still be faltering because enough people aren't complete idiots and would not frequent these places anyway.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:22 am

I think a lot of people are experiencing their first globally cataclysmic event here, it sure is mine but at least I saw it coming...

Closest major disruption to US life was ww2. Closest major pandemic disruption was 1918. Old mechanisms are coming out from a long rest, just sit back and learn how every action made can make a major change to the course of history.
情報
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:33 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on.


Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person

Yes, most people do not like having their rights trampled on.


Fred


The cities of Baltimore, Chicago, Memphis, etc will all suffer more murders this year than the coronavirus could ever hope to match. And we won't even get into DUI and car accidents.

1. How do you know?
Italy recorded 3 325 deaths from traffic accidents in 2018, in the first 3 months of this year they have recorded ~7000 deaths due to the corona virus.

2. I don't think failings in other areas is a good way to justify failing in this too.
My wife's stupid but at least she's also fat to make up for it.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Their mayors don't seem too worried about that. But coronavirus gives them an excuse to grab power and hold on to it. None have given a definite cutoff date.

Then they should be negotiating harder with the Virus! Have they not read the art of the deal!

TTailedTiger wrote:
And what would you do to stop them if they wanted to keep the lockdown in place forever?

SHHHH! Make sure you have your foil hat on before you say anything.

What if they wanted to keep you from having slaves forever too?

TigerBoy, If someone comes toward you with a gun pointed at you can you legitimately shoot them if you ask them to stop and they don't?

Fred
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:44 am

Aesma wrote:
The mayor could have done nothing, the businesses would still be faltering because enough people aren't complete idiots and would not frequent these places anyway.


While I can agree the businesses would suffer regardless (just maybe not as much), that is not an adequate defense for the city. If the mayor goes around shooting people with coronavirus to stop the spread, he can't use "well they might have died anyway" as a defense.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:00 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The mayor could have done nothing, the businesses would still be faltering because enough people aren't complete idiots and would not frequent these places anyway.


While I can agree the businesses would suffer regardless (just maybe not as much), that is not an adequate defense for the city. If the mayor goes around shooting people with coronavirus to stop the spread, he can't use "well they might have died anyway" as a defense.
No, of course, because the likelyhood is that they wouldn't as more people recover than die. You do however seem to have a profound misunderstanding as to what the issues with the virus and its spreading mechanisms and as such what the 'Lockdowns' are actually for.

Probably best for you to do a little bit of reading and understanding of the situation and come at this from a place of a little less ignorance.

Fred
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:08 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The mayor could have done nothing, the businesses would still be faltering because enough people aren't complete idiots and would not frequent these places anyway.


While I can agree the businesses would suffer regardless (just maybe not as much), that is not an adequate defense for the city. If the mayor goes around shooting people with coronavirus to stop the spread, he can't use "well they might have died anyway" as a defense.
No, of course, because the likelyhood is that they wouldn't as more people recover than die. You do however seem to have a profound misunderstanding as to what the issues with the virus and its spreading mechanisms and as such what the 'Lockdowns' are actually for.

Probably best for you to do a little bit of reading and understanding of the situation and come at this from a place of a little less ignorance.

Fred


Oh, got it. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has no idea what they are talking about. None of you have answered our question of how long we let this go on before the economy gets in a hole and society collapses. People will not accept their mayor or governor extending the lockdown multiple times. You're in for a world of hurt if you think they will sit back and take it.


Maybe you should look at other issues besides the disease itself.

https://www.pensford.com/why-flattening ... overrated/
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:20 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
. Most Americans don't like their rights trampled on.


Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person

Yes, most people do not like having their rights trampled on.


Fred


Well, conservatives love the freedom not to have insurance, safe the money and take the risk.

Those businesses decided not to buy pandemic insurance, so why should tax payers bail them out.

Best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:29 am

I don't know how this will work out in the US with their claim culture, but the most reasonable and fair thing would be to offer some kind of compensation for these business owners. And for memberships, no refunds, same for all kinds of festivals (the season is about to start), musea, concert-halls, holiday parks etc. It is better to spread the problem, then to concentrate it to a few entrepreneurs.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpio
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:42 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Oh, got it. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has no idea what they are talking about. None of you have answered our question of how long we let this go on before the economy gets in a hole and society collapses. People will not accept their mayor or governor extending the lockdown multiple times. You're in for a world of hurt if you think they will sit back and take it.


Maybe you should look at other issues besides the disease itself.

https://www.pensford.com/why-flattening ... overrated/

What is your solution, TTailedTiger? Just let the virus run its course?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:07 am

Scorpio wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Oh, got it. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has no idea what they are talking about. None of you have answered our question of how long we let this go on before the economy gets in a hole and society collapses. People will not accept their mayor or governor extending the lockdown multiple times. You're in for a world of hurt if you think they will sit back and take it.


Maybe you should look at other issues besides the disease itself.

https://www.pensford.com/why-flattening ... overrated/

What is your solution, TTailedTiger? Just let the virus run its course?



You want an answer TTailedTiger? Do you think you are entitled to an answer? The answer is very simple: as long as it takes! The alternatives are very more devastating and social undermining.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:16 am

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Oh, got it. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has no idea what they are talking about. None of you have answered our question of how long we let this go on before the economy gets in a hole and society collapses. People will not accept their mayor or governor extending the lockdown multiple times. You're in for a world of hurt if you think they will sit back and take it.


Maybe you should look at other issues besides the disease itself.

https://www.pensford.com/why-flattening ... overrated/

What is your solution, TTailedTiger? Just let the virus run its course?



You want an answer TTailedTiger? Do you think you are entitled to an answer? The answer is very simple: as long as it takes! The alternatives are very more devastating and social undermining.


the source is also interesting... its not a news site, its not an opinion blog... its a financial group, and if you put Hotel or Hospitality into their search field... i am not exactly sure they are ....mmm. ... unbiased...

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
petertenthije
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:30 am

Let's give a little thought experiment here.

Consider that society as a whole is a person. Basically, that person (society) has fallen ill.

Interesting how conservatives hate healthcare for all... but are now the ones most complaining that businesses are suffering, that China should be boycotted, that China should pay damages etc. (there have been 4 threads on that subject alone, all started by our usual bright minds)

Conservaties like to remind us that corporations are people. Well, here's the flip side: corporations should be able to cover of a few sick days.

:D
Attamottamotta!
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:32 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

While I can agree the businesses would suffer regardless (just maybe not as much), that is not an adequate defense for the city. If the mayor goes around shooting people with coronavirus to stop the spread, he can't use "well they might have died anyway" as a defense.
No, of course, because the likelyhood is that they wouldn't as more people recover than die. You do however seem to have a profound misunderstanding as to what the issues with the virus and its spreading mechanisms and as such what the 'Lockdowns' are actually for.

Probably best for you to do a little bit of reading and understanding of the situation and come at this from a place of a little less ignorance.

Fred

Oh, got it. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has no idea what they are talking about.

No it was because you made a clear error in understanding what the social distancing measures are for when you made the statement
TTailedTiger wrote:
he can't use "well they might have died anyway"

Because that isn't what social distancing is for.

TTailedTiger wrote:
None of you have answered our question of how long we let this go on before the economy gets in a hole and society collapses.

Because nobody actually knows, therefore we have to make informed guesses based on best available information.

TTailedTiger wrote:
People will not accept their mayor or governor extending the lockdown multiple times. You're in for a world of hurt if you think they will sit back and take it.

Indeed, they likely wont, that's probably why they want to do as much as they can at the moment so as to reduce the impacts later on such that subsequent 'lockdowns' don't have to be so severe

TTailedTiger wrote:
Maybe you should look at other issues besides the disease itself.
I wasn't aware that it was a zero sum game...

You haven't told us your solution yet TigerBoy, There is a phrase we use at work "the only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything, we employ people who make mistakes".

Fred
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Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:38 am

When the State announces an emergency situation, some liberties are tossed overboard to protect the public.

It's also not the Mayors closing local businesses, but a virus.

Loss of profits is no fun, but if tomorrow an earthquake wipes out your city, you won't be making profits either, and most insurances don't cover earthquakes, let alone loss of business.
In good times we make money, in bad times we lose some. Owning a business always carries risk.

On the bright side, your Congress has just agreed to a record package that will allow businesses to get through this as if it was a prolonged holiday.

This virus is an opportunity to catch up on rest, spend some time with the family, reflect on life, work on an invention or a new language. Time is money, but money doesn't buy you a second life.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12178
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:40 am

petertenthije wrote:
Let's give a little thought experiment here.

Consider that society as a whole is a person. Basically, that person (society) has fallen ill.

Interesting how conservatives hate healthcare for all... but are now the ones most complaining that businesses are suffering, that China should be boycotted, that China should pay damages etc. (there have been 4 threads on that subject alone, all started by our usual bright minds)

Conservaties like to remind us that corporations are people. Well, here's the flip side: corporations should be able to cover of a few sick days.

:D


Even more interessting:

The same conservatives demanding people to prepare themselves for bad times/illness/retirement and so on and so forth, the same people that don´t want to expand paid sick leave.....
... want to hand a 500 Billion slush fund to the most corrupt admin the US ever had to hand out to companies, that apparently failed to prepare to fall on bad times...

I think governments can give businesses all the money they need and want, in return for shares, that the government can sell, likely with a profit, when everything is over.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12178
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:42 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
and most insurances don't cover earthquakes, let alone loss of business.


pretty much all insurances cover that .... if you pay them for that coverage.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Lawsuits in the US

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:52 am

Because this thread seems to lack direction, and is instead more of a rant, the thread has been locked.

I realize this is a frustrating time for a lot of people, but this forum is meant for discussion, not an outlet to vent.

✈️ atcsundevil

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