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Tugger
Posts: 10109
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:42 pm

And I am now laughing loudly listening to all the conservative talk show hosts with people calling in about distrusting the government, emphatically stating that we can only save ourselves, and that we need to depend on individuals and private companies etc. And then asking how they can get their check from the government and oh, they lost their job and don't have health insurance, what can they apply for.

And are the hosts discussing using "social medical insurance" (you know the one that Christians pay for your care cost by donating etc.)? No, they aren't saying squat about those, nor about insurance companies. They talk about the government benefits being provided to support people in these difficult times. Why? Because just like "you didn't build this" we all always need to rely on those around us that have used and supported the same governmental systems for years and that we and the world use to get through real deep crap.

No company or church or individual can "create" trillions of dollars of needed support in times like this. You need a team of people, a nation, strong and with rules and regulations and an economy and people that pay into that system, that we all know is the only way to possibly pay that all back someday or at least to pay the interest that will fund your future retirement assistance etc.

Buy yours guns, go to your churches, support private business, but also pay your taxes and support that necessary tool so you and you children are protected from things like this that do regularly happen in life.

And to those who claim the government is causing this, bull-honky! If we were all just left to our own devices the same thing would happen, the virus would spread, people would get scared, the spread would worsen, people would hoard, people would get sick and die and more people would get more scared and shelter in place and be even more scared and wouldn't go to jobs and jobs would be lost etc. etc. etc. And it would be very very bad, and then get even worse with overwhelmed services and programs and an unresponsive and an even more unplanned, unprepared government leadership. Because we are all just looking out for ourselves (and I am not hearing many of those who are calling for people to "rely on themselves" doing anything themselves for the greater good).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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seb146
Posts: 21975
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:10 pm

Tugger wrote:
And I am now laughing loudly listening to all the conservative talk show hosts with people calling in about distrusting the government, emphatically stating that we can only save ourselves, and that we need to depend on individuals and private companies etc. And then asking how they can get their check from the government and oh, they lost their job and don't have health insurance, what can they apply for.

And are the hosts discussing using "social medical insurance" (you know the one that Christians pay for your care cost by donating etc.)? No, they aren't saying squat about those, nor about insurance companies. They talk about the government benefits being provided to support people in these difficult times. Why? Because just like "you didn't build this" we all always need to rely on those around us that have used and supported the same governmental systems for years and that we and the world use to get through real deep crap.

No company or church or individual can "create" trillions of dollars of needed support in times like this. You need a team of people, a nation, strong and with rules and regulations and an economy and people that pay into that system, that we all know is the only way to possibly pay that all back someday or at least to pay the interest that will fund your future retirement assistance etc.

Buy yours guns, go to your churches, support private business, but also pay your taxes and support that necessary tool so you and you children are protected from things like this that do regularly happen in life.

And to those who claim the government is causing this, bull-honky! If we were all just left to our own devices the same thing would happen, the virus would spread, people would get scared, the spread would worsen, people would hoard, people would get sick and die and more people would get more scared and shelter in place and be even more scared and wouldn't go to jobs and jobs would be lost etc. etc. etc. And it would be very very bad, and then get even worse with overwhelmed services and programs and an unresponsive and an even more unplanned, unprepared government leadership. Because we are all just looking out for ourselves (and I am not hearing many of those who are calling for people to "rely on themselves" doing anything themselves for the greater good).

Tugg


I hear the commercials for the "Christian health care" where everyone shares bills and helps others by paying into a pool. Isn't that socialism? I have wanted to discuss this for a while, but never had the right thread.

And, yes, your point about "we hate the government" people also demanding the government fix this and why can't the government stay out of our lives but the government needs to give us things is not lost on us.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Topic Author
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:46 pm

Tugger wrote:
And I am now laughing loudly listening to all the conservative talk show hosts with people calling in about distrusting the government, emphatically stating that we can only save ourselves, and that we need to depend on individuals and private companies etc. And then asking how they can get their check from the government and oh, they lost their job and don't have health insurance, what can they apply for.

And are the hosts discussing using "social medical insurance" (you know the one that Christians pay for your care cost by donating etc.)? No, they aren't saying squat about those, nor about insurance companies. They talk about the government benefits being provided to support people in these difficult times. Why? Because just like "you didn't build this" we all always need to rely on those around us that have used and supported the same governmental systems for years and that we and the world use to get through real deep crap.

No company or church or individual can "create" trillions of dollars of needed support in times like this. You need a team of people, a nation, strong and with rules and regulations and an economy and people that pay into that system, that we all know is the only way to possibly pay that all back someday or at least to pay the interest that will fund your future retirement assistance etc.

Buy yours guns, go to your churches, support private business, but also pay your taxes and support that necessary tool so you and you children are protected from things like this that do regularly happen in life.

And to those who claim the government is causing this, bull-honky! If we were all just left to our own devices the same thing would happen, the virus would spread, people would get scared, the spread would worsen, people would hoard, people would get sick and die and more people would get more scared and shelter in place and be even more scared and wouldn't go to jobs and jobs would be lost etc. etc. etc. And it would be very very bad, and then get even worse with overwhelmed services and programs and an unresponsive and an even more unplanned, unprepared government leadership. Because we are all just looking out for ourselves (and I am not hearing many of those who are calling for people to "rely on themselves" doing anything themselves for the greater good).

Tugg


The true reflection of humanity being thrust into what they do best 'push the panic button'. thus pluse TTailTiger's (and many conservatives) It's us or them, do or die ...(which will remain the stay until you become 'one of them' a rolling definition).

One of the best lines from a flick is MIB, Jones points to Will Smith, "You just can't tell people the truth, people are scared panicky animals...' and we are at the cusp of that.

Now is the time for the brightest minds to unite to head of complete calamity. There needs to be a forum by the likes of Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Sam Harris, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Sean Carroll, Richard Dawkins and others via teleconference to this discuss the cracks in society, Hungary given complete power to Orban, Philippine's Dueterte, trumps (and his ear whisperers) want to toss Maduro
and install that skinny punk Guaido so he can act as he knows what to do (that is play dictator like rest - never give a frightened mousey man power over anything larger than a bag of M&Ms).

The American president is in no way cut out for what is happening now, his daily campaign/briefing idiocy disseminates confusion every time he opens his ignorant brain and speaks.
Everyone knows this.

Either we deal with this matter right now and not from a 'let's see what happens bowl of BS' and smarter minds step forward and avert what can descend into chaos in a flash.

A crisis is when you need smart and intelligent leadership. We have pissed away too much time listening to grandstanding bumper sticker speak from these idiots in power. Cuomo, Newsome and the other brave governors need to present a united front and grab the bull by the horns all the while stop playing the BS back n' forth games with the insincere likes of Moscow Mitch, the idiot president and his enablers....those losers do not give two shits about any of you, none of you. I look at leaders like the NZ pm and a few other nations with little global influence and I feel domestically the US is in the same boat with these smarter governors at the mercy of the most dysfunctional federal gov't in American history.

America needs to be the leader it has been in the past, we simply cannot get that done with a certified complete idiot leading the way.

I don't care how presidential he acts because it is an act, the true exemplar of a Paper Tiger.

Wake up America, it's moments like this where the worst human instincts rear it's ugly head...when people are frightened, and make no mistake...they are.
Let's end dealing with dysfunction as we have in the past, following whatever leaders available..we can now demand the smarter to take command and avert the outcome certain from ignorance.

Start by sitting ex-General Honore (of Katrina fame) along with Cuomo, the Mich gov't, Pritzker of Illinois and others who are dead serious about everything happening around us.

Continued floundering along waiting for leadership from a man (and his appointees) who doesn't know his ass from elbow assures only one outcome.

We are watching a slow motion train wreck and sometime on hand to effect the fallout.....or choose not to.
BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:27 am

RHB is a friend of Alex Jones, and that only makes me appreciate his ministry the more. But I don't like going to church, I watch on TV, so I wouldn't have gone to the service, even if I was in Tampa. Megachurches are too loud, and too many bright lights in the eyes.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:04 am

Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-viole ... d=69863436
 
alfa164
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:11 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.


"Pastors" ( and I use that term loosely) are breaking the law. How much time did any of them actually spend in jail?

It would be a good time for them to minister to those sinners already incarcerated...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
KFTG
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:24 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-viole ... d=69863436

Keep trying.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:59 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

That would still only be 0.63% of the US population if your figures were to be correct. We would have to ask if that is worth the majority being jobless, homeless, and hungry. And then we get to deal with the violence and death that comes with that.


What's your number? How many dead is acceptable before you'll consider inconveniencing yourself?


You consider 40% unemployment and an economic depression an inconvenience? If everyone could stay home for months with everything staying the same then you wouldn't get an argument from me. We only have a stable healthcare system because of our economy. If you are ok with an economic collapse then that means you are also ok with the infant mortality rate, suicides, and murder sky rocketing. The US suffered the most violence during the 1930's and executed the most people for murder. You want to go back to lawlessness and street gangs? Nothing good will come from a depression. The only thing that got us out of the first one is a world war. You want to go through that again? Because it's a very good chance that's what will happen with the majority the world suffering and impoverished.


Putting economy and jobs ahead of people's health and well-being is pretty damn heartless, maybe the US is so obsessed with money that they'll happily pay the price of millions of deaths, but those deaths come with their own huge losses and consequences. I'm glad that the country I'm fron and the one where I live don't view life and well-being so trivially.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:27 am

alfa164 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.


"Pastors" ( and I use that term loosely) are breaking the law. How much time did any of them actually spend in jail?

It would be a good time for them to minister to those sinners already incarcerated...


They early acting law enforcement may just safe them from Manslaughter charges....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:31 am

tommy1808 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.


"Pastors" ( and I use that term loosely) are breaking the law. How much time did any of them actually spend in jail?

It would be a good time for them to minister to those sinners already incarcerated...


They early acting law enforcement may just safe them from Manslaughter charges....

best regards
Thomas


Good luck with that. We can't even get convictions from this who knowingly give others HIV.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:43 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

"Pastors" ( and I use that term loosely) are breaking the law. How much time did any of them actually spend in jail?

It would be a good time for them to minister to those sinners already incarcerated...


They early acting law enforcement may just safe them from Manslaughter charges....

best regards
Thomas


Good luck with that. We can't even get convictions from this who knowingly give others HIV.


that would appear to be bullshit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... osecutions

And HIV is just one person at the time, that pastor is essentially a bio-terrorist.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:29 am

tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

They early acting law enforcement may just safe them from Manslaughter charges....

best regards
Thomas


Good luck with that. We can't even get convictions from this who knowingly give others HIV.


that would appear to be bullshit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... osecutions

And HIV is just one person at the time, that pastor is essentially a bio-terrorist.

best regards
Thomas


Did you actually read that? None of them convicted of manslaughter.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:46 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Good luck with that. We can't even get convictions from this who knowingly give others HIV.


that would appear to be bullshit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... osecutions

And HIV is just one person at the time, that pastor is essentially a bio-terrorist.

best regards
Thomas


Did you actually read that? None of them convicted of manslaughter.


yeah.. you kinda need someone dead for that, and dying isn´t the default outcome of an HIV infection, and hasn´t been for quite a while now.

If that pastor started a chain of infections he will have killed someone in rather short time. That is the crucial difference.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:32 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-viole ... d=69863436

Seeing as the death rate looks to be about 1.4% then the exchange of violent criminals for those attempted mass murder seems ok with me...

TigerBoy: do you think you should be able to shoot someone who poses an imminent threat to yourself and your family?

I guess that you won’t answer because you realise that it will expose you therefore I think it’s safe to assume that if you don’t answer it is because you can’t find an intellectually consistent argument. Sorry bud.

Fred


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Image
 
afcjets
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:38 am

KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3417
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:48 am

afcjets wrote:
KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?

The irony of the Darwin Award is almost painfully funny in this instance.

People die all the time and whilst it’s partly sad it’s also partly funny that they chose to ignore the facts and spend time with a group of other people to sing to a narcissistic fairy tale leader who has no credible evidence of existing. Religion is dangerous, this is the proof!

Every member of the congregation should be tried for accessory to murder.

Fred


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Image
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:08 am

flipdewaf wrote:
afcjets wrote:
KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?

The irony of the Darwin Award is almost painfully funny in this instance.

People die all the time and whilst it’s partly sad it’s also partly funny that they chose to ignore the facts and spend time with a group of other people to sing to a narcissistic fairy tale leader who has no credible evidence of existing. Religion is dangerous, this is the proof!

Every member of the congregation should be tried for accessory to murder.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Isn't that "just" involuntary manslaughter? Hard to tell what's what in a different legal system.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
TSS
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:19 am

seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So let people die. "Liberals" hate. That is your response. The response from a supporter of the "party of life". meh... That is your whole argument. Who cares if a few people get sick and die? "Liberals" are bad. That is the only response you have.

Where did Jesus Christ say this? Republicans keep saying Jesus hates for whatever reason. Where did Jesus Christ say let people die because 'Murica? Please show me what 2020 year Bible says this.


It is the right of the individual to meet and pray together. And as only Jesus can save you, it is better than any other means.


So just get rid of science. Pray the virus away. That worked so well with the plague, didn't it? Let the South spread disease around there. I say: build a wall around the South. Do not let anyone in or out. Every life is sacred but if they die, praise Jesus. And church leaders wonder why people are leaving religion behind......


Sorry to invalidate the South-bashing that you seem to enjoy indulging in at every possible opportunity, but as has been stated on this site many times Florida is only a Southern state as far as Orlando. South of Orlando, including Tampa, Florida is "God's Waiting Room"/The southernmost borough of New York City.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
User avatar
seahawk
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:36 am

seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So let people die. "Liberals" hate. That is your response. The response from a supporter of the "party of life". meh... That is your whole argument. Who cares if a few people get sick and die? "Liberals" are bad. That is the only response you have.

Where did Jesus Christ say this? Republicans keep saying Jesus hates for whatever reason. Where did Jesus Christ say let people die because 'Murica? Please show me what 2020 year Bible says this.


It is the right of the individual to meet and pray together. And as only Jesus can save you, it is better than any other means.


So just get rid of science. Pray the virus away. That worked so well with the plague, didn't it? Let the South spread disease around there. I say: build a wall around the South. Do not let anyone in or out. Every life is sacred but if they die, praise Jesus. And church leaders wonder why people are leaving religion behind......


See, the first have already been healed through a prayer, it is all over the news! Even in Europe.

https://www.newsweek.com/conservative-p ... ns-1492044

This prayer also said to work:

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2 ... rus-prayer
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12482
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:46 am

seahawk wrote:
seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:

It is the right of the individual to meet and pray together. And as only Jesus can save you, it is better than any other means.


So just get rid of science. Pray the virus away. That worked so well with the plague, didn't it? Let the South spread disease around there. I say: build a wall around the South. Do not let anyone in or out. Every life is sacred but if they die, praise Jesus. And church leaders wonder why people are leaving religion behind......


See, the first have already been healed through a prayer, it is all over the news! Even in Europe.

https://www.newsweek.com/conservative-p ... ns-1492044


Sounds like copyright infringement :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja0Hs7Ryth0



If only the two dead in this Church had known that earlier....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9536
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:49 am

tommy1808 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So just get rid of science. Pray the virus away. That worked so well with the plague, didn't it? Let the South spread disease around there. I say: build a wall around the South. Do not let anyone in or out. Every life is sacred but if they die, praise Jesus. And church leaders wonder why people are leaving religion behind......


See, the first have already been healed through a prayer, it is all over the news! Even in Europe.

https://www.newsweek.com/conservative-p ... ns-1492044


Sounds like copyright infringement :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja0Hs7Ryth0



If only the two dead in this Church had known that earlier....

best regards
Thomas


It is a business opportunity, you can use holy water but only in a homeopathic application.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:54 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-viole ... d=69863436

Seeing as the death rate looks to be about 1.4% then the exchange of violent criminals for those attempted mass murder seems ok with me...

TigerBoy: do you think you should be able to shoot someone who poses an imminent threat to yourself and your family?

I guess that you won’t answer because you realise that it will expose you therefore I think it’s safe to assume that if you don’t answer it is because you can’t find an intellectually consistent argument. Sorry bud.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If someone is putting my life in real and present danger then I have the right to defend myself by any means, not just shooting. And you can be sure there will be an investigation to see if I was justified in taking that action, even if a gun had been held to my head. A ~1% death rate is not an imminent threat and certainly not an immediate threat to your life. You'd have a better case for shooting someone who threw peanuts at a person with a mild allergy.

And I don't care for your insults. But what should I expect from someone who claims they are three years old in their profile...
 
bgm
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:05 am

afcjets wrote:
KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?


Well, that's what happens when you prioritize your religious beliefs over cold hard scientific evidence. They were warned. They chose to ignore it and follow their religious beliefs. For 2 of them, it cost them their lives.

Religion is truly the opiate of the masses.
Buttery males.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:08 am

flipdewaf wrote:
afcjets wrote:
KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?

The irony of the Darwin Award is almost painfully funny in this instance.

People die all the time and whilst it’s partly sad it’s also partly funny that they chose to ignore the facts and spend time with a group of other people to sing to a narcissistic fairy tale leader who has no credible evidence of existing. Religion is dangerous, this is the proof!

Every member of the congregation should be tried for accessory to murder.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



What a great idea. Let's spend millions on prosecuting cases that will never result in a conviction. 1) Death from coronavirus is not ruled as a homicide. 2) You would never be able to prove where the person became infected. And the ACLU would be more than happy to take on the civil suits againt the city/county.

But you go ahead and give a call to your district attorney and tell them your idea.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3417
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:09 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Pastors are being thrown in jail while states like NY release violent criminals.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-viole ... d=69863436

Seeing as the death rate looks to be about 1.4% then the exchange of violent criminals for those attempted mass murder seems ok with me...

TigerBoy: do you think you should be able to shoot someone who poses an imminent threat to yourself and your family?

I guess that you won’t answer because you realise that it will expose you therefore I think it’s safe to assume that if you don’t answer it is because you can’t find an intellectually consistent argument. Sorry bud.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If someone is putting my life in real and present danger then I have the right to defend myself by any means, not just shooting. And you can be sure there will be an investigation to see if I was justified in taking that action, even if a gun had been held to my head. A ~1% death rate is not an imminent threat and certainly not an immediate threat to your life. You'd have a better case for shooting someone who threw peanuts at a person with a mild allergy.

Interesting, so if someone comes at you with a revolver with only one bullet in it (russian roulette style) the actions should be based onthe probability and not the perceived threat? "ld it right there sudden thread whilst I get my calculator out"

Fun world you live in. Good luck with people not bothering with calculators!

TTailedTiger wrote:
And I don't care for your insults. But what should I expect from someone who claims they are three years old in their profile...
Well a cursory glance would show that that is the date the website got updated to its new format although I shouldn't have expected very much critical thinking based on previous responses.

Fred
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flipdewaf
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:17 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
1) Death from coronavirus is not ruled as a homicide.
We aren't talking about the death being homicide we are talking about the infection, what about those deliberately infectin others with HIV/AIDS, that sounds like a good comparison.....

TTailedTiger wrote:
2) You would never be able to prove where the person became infected.

So two people shoot two other people but we cannot prove who fired which shots... No conviction eh? Church goers better be aware when approaching more than a single person household. No conviction!

TTailedTiger wrote:
But you go ahead and give a call to your district attorney and tell them your idea.
I live in a place with distinctly less nutters thankfully.

Fred
Last edited by flipdewaf on Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:21 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
1) Death from coronavirus is not ruled as a homicide.
We aren't talking about the death being homicide we are talking about the infection, what about those deliberately infectin others with HIV/AIDS, that sounds like a good comparison.....

TTailedTiger wrote:
2) You would never be able to prove where the person became infected.

So two people shoot two other people but we cannot prove who fired which shots... No conviction eh? Church goers better be aware when approaching more than a single person household. No conviction!

TTailedTiger wrote:
But you go ahead and give a call to your district attorney and tell them your idea.
I live in a place with distinctly less nutters thankfully.

Fred


Stop changing the subject. You said the entire congregation should be charged with accessory to MURDER. Are you denying you said that?
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:30 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
1) Death from coronavirus is not ruled as a homicide.
We aren't talking about the death being homicide we are talking about the infection, what about those deliberately infectin others with HIV/AIDS, that sounds like a good comparison.....

TTailedTiger wrote:
2) You would never be able to prove where the person became infected.

So two people shoot two other people but we cannot prove who fired which shots... No conviction eh? Church goers better be aware when approaching more than a single person household. No conviction!

TTailedTiger wrote:
But you go ahead and give a call to your district attorney and tell them your idea.
I live in a place with distinctly less nutters thankfully.

Fred


Stop changing the subject. You said the entire congregation should be charged with accessory to MURDER. Are you denying you said that?


OO, capitals, he's getting angry folks. We are nearly there!

You are missing the subtlety of dieing from a disease caught accidently and being given the disease from being infected by the willful neglect of other people.

Is dying in a car crash caused by a defective component in the drive train the same as dying in a car crash because someone disconnected the brakes as they didn't think they were important the same?

If so I think some brake pipe cutters could also be selling out on amazon...

Fred
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:34 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
We aren't talking about the death being homicide we are talking about the infection, what about those deliberately infectin others with HIV/AIDS, that sounds like a good comparison.....


So two people shoot two other people but we cannot prove who fired which shots... No conviction eh? Church goers better be aware when approaching more than a single person household. No conviction!

I live in a place with distinctly less nutters thankfully.

Fred


Stop changing the subject. You said the entire congregation should be charged with accessory to MURDER. Are you denying you said that?


OO, capitals, he's getting angry folks. We are nearly there!

You are missing the subtlety of dieing from a disease caught accidently and being given the disease from being infected by the willful neglect of other people.

Is dying in a car crash caused by a defective component in the drive train the same as dying in a car crash because someone disconnected the brakes as they didn't think they were important the same?

If so I think some brake pipe cutters could also be selling out on amazon...

Fred


A murder charge requires intent. You would have to prove the congregation intended to infect and kill someone. You would be unable to do that.

And you're the only one throwing around insults. You are not trying to have a sincere conversation at all. Off to the ignore list for you.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:37 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Off to the ignore list for you.


I see you need a safe space, I can't say I'm not disappointed in you.

Although I will take it as a victory that this particular nutter has been out nutted by his own logic and cannot fathom it out so would rather ignore the questions. :wave:

Fred
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Sokes
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:25 am

I believe this thread should be reprinted in school history books, chapter "renaissance".
The renaissance was the transition between middle age and enlightenment. The plague and resulting doubt about god/ the church was one of many factors.

"The Renaissance began in the 14th century in Florence, Italy.[8] Various theories have been proposed to account for its origins and characteristics, focusing on a variety of factors including the social and civic peculiarities of Florence at the time: its political structure, the patronage of its dominant family, the Medici,[9][10] and the migration of Greek scholars and their texts to Italy following the Fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks.[11][12][13] Other major centres were northern Italian city-states such as Venice, Genoa, Milan, Bologna, and finally Rome during the Renaissance Papacy.
...
In politics, the Renaissance contributed to the development of the customs and conventions of diplomacy, and in science to an increased reliance on observation and inductive reasoning.
...
Some observers have called into question whether the Renaissance was a cultural "advance" from the Middle Ages, instead seeing it as a period of pessimism and nostalgia for classical antiquity,[16] while social and economic historians, especially of the longue durée, have instead focused on the continuity between the two eras,[17] which are linked, as Panofsky observed, "by a thousand ties".
...
Political philosophers, most famously Niccolò Machiavelli, sought to describe political life as it really was, that is to understand it rationally
...
In all, the Renaissance could be viewed as an attempt by intellectuals to study and improve the secular and worldly, both through the revival of ideas from antiquity, and through novel approaches to thought. Some scholars, such as Rodney Stark,[24] play down the Renaissance in favour of the earlier innovations of the Italian city-states in the High Middle Ages, which married responsive government, Christianity and the birth of capitalism. This analysis argues that, whereas the great European states (France and Spain) were absolutist monarchies, and others were under direct Church control, the independent city republics of Italy took over the principles of capitalism invented on monastic estates and set off a vast unprecedented commercial revolution that preceded and financed the Renaissance.
...
Arab logicians had inherited Greek ideas after they had invaded and conquered Egypt and the Levant. Their translations and commentaries on these ideas worked their way through the Arab West into Iberia and Sicily, which became important centers for this transmission of ideas. From the 11th to the 13th century, many schools dedicated to the translation of philosophical and scientific works from Classical Arabic to Medieval Latin were established in Iberia. Most notably the Toledo School of Translators. This work of translation from Islamic culture, though largely unplanned and disorganized, constituted one of the greatest transmissions of ideas in history.[31] The movement to reintegrate the regular study of Greek literary, historical, oratorical and theological texts back into the Western European curriculum is usually dated to the 1396 invitation from Coluccio Salutati to the Byzantine diplomat and scholar Manuel Chrysoloras (c. 1355–1415) to teach Greek in Florence.[32] This legacy was continued by a number of expatriate Greek scholars, from Basilios Bessarion to Leo Allatius.
...
Historian and political philosopher Quentin Skinner points out that Otto of Freising (c. 1114–1158), a German bishop visiting north Italy during the 12th century, noticed a widespread new form of political and social organization, observing that Italy appeared to have exited from Feudalism so that its society was based on merchants and commerce. Linked to this was anti-monarchical thinking, represented in the famous early Renaissance fresco cycle The Allegory of Good and Bad Government by Ambrogio Lorenzetti (painted 1338–1340), whose strong message is about the virtues of fairness, justice, republicanism and good administration. Holding both Church and Empire at bay, these city republics were devoted to notions of liberty. Skinner reports that there were many defences of liberty such as the Matteo Palmieri (1406–1475) celebration of Florentine genius not only in art, sculpture and architecture, but "the remarkable efflorescence of moral, social and political philosophy that occurred in Florence at the same time".
...
Even cities and states beyond central Italy, such as the Republic of Florence at this time, were also notable for their merchant Republics, especially the Republic of Venice. Although in practice these were oligarchical, and bore little resemblance to a modern democracy, they did have democratic features and were responsive states, with forms of participation in governance and belief in liberty.[35][36][37] The relative political freedom they afforded was conducive to academic and artistic advancement.[38] Likewise, the position of Italian cities such as Venice as great trading centres made them intellectual crossroads. Merchants brought with them ideas from far corners of the globe, particularly the Levant. Venice was Europe's gateway to trade with the East, and a producer of fine glass, while Florence was a capital of textiles. The wealth such business brought to Italy meant large public and private artistic projects could be commissioned and individuals had more leisure time for study.
...
One theory that has been advanced is that the devastation in Florence caused by the Black Death, which hit Europe between 1348 and 1350, resulted in a shift in the world view of people in 14th-century Italy. Italy was particularly badly hit by the plague, and it has been speculated that the resulting familiarity with death caused thinkers to dwell more on their lives on Earth, rather than on spirituality and the afterlife.[39] It has also been argued that the Black Death prompted a new wave of piety, manifested in the sponsorship of religious works of art.[40] However, this does not fully explain why the Renaissance occurred specifically in Italy in the 14th century. The Black Death was a pandemic that affected all of Europe in the ways described, not only Italy. The Renaissance's emergence in Italy was most likely the result of the complex interaction of the above factors.[14] "
More to come: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance

"Venice was Europe's gateway to trade with the East, and a producer of fine glass, while Florence was a capital of textiles. The wealth such business brought to Italy meant large public and private artistic projects could be commissioned and individuals had more leisure time for study."
Pretty much the same way Hayek argues in "The Constitution of liberty". Advances happen by some people being damn rich. He celebrates inequality. It's quite a provocation. But it also is quite difficult to prove him wrong.
I believe "The truth is in the middle" means that having working poor is overdoing it. Also inequality in middle ages didn't lead to anything. Excess resources have to be in the hands of an Elon Musk, not some oil prince who spends it on 20 luxury cars.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
alfa164
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:47 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
A murder charge requires intent. You would have to prove the congregation intended to infect and kill someone. You would be unable to do that..


Not true! Murder charges can also be brought against anyone based on reckless conduct that results in death.

Facts matter... remember?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
afcjets
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:57 pm

bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?


Well, that's what happens when you prioritize your religious beliefs over cold hard scientific evidence. They were warned. They chose to ignore it and follow their religious beliefs. For 2 of them, it cost them their lives.

Religion is truly the opiate of the masses.


In all fairness to this group it was March 10 and even as late as March 14 the mayor of NYC was encouraging people to ride the subway, go to bars, restaurants, shows, etc.

But all replies so far have ignored the actual question, are you really happy about what happened to them? The original poster said he wants things like this to happen.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-yor ... is-1269480
 
KFTG
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:03 pm

afcjets wrote:
KFTG wrote:
I agree with TTailedTiger. We should allow all evangelical "Christians" - especially the ones of the "conservative" persuaision - to peaceably assemble as much as possible during this global pandemic. Especially in the southern states. Wouldn't want to violate anyone's Constitutional rights.


So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?

I'm results oriented.
 
alfa164
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:14 pm

KFTG wrote:
afcjets wrote:
So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?

I'm results oriented.


Ironically, this is a group whose ilk generally deny the validity of Darwinism... but here they proceed to prove the correctness of his theories...

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
bgm
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:58 pm

afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:

So does this mean you were thrilled to hear where 45 of 60 members of that chuch choir tested positive for coronavirus and where two have already passed away?


Well, that's what happens when you prioritize your religious beliefs over cold hard scientific evidence. They were warned. They chose to ignore it and follow their religious beliefs. For 2 of them, it cost them their lives.

Religion is truly the opiate of the masses.


In all fairness to this group it was March 10 and even as late as March 14 the mayor of NYC was encouraging people to ride the subway, go to bars, restaurants, shows, etc.

But all replies so far have ignored the actual question, are you really happy about what happened to them? The original poster said he wants things like this to happen.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-yor ... is-1269480


What a strange question. :sarcastic: Speaking for myself, of course I'm not happy about it. Two people unnecessarily lost their lives. It must be a terrible loss for their family and friends. But they took that risk and paid the ultimate price.
Buttery males.
 
afcjets
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:29 pm

bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:

Well, that's what happens when you prioritize your religious beliefs over cold hard scientific evidence. They were warned. They chose to ignore it and follow their religious beliefs. For 2 of them, it cost them their lives.

Religion is truly the opiate of the masses.


In all fairness to this group it was March 10 and even as late as March 14 the mayor of NYC was encouraging people to ride the subway, go to bars, restaurants, shows, etc.

But all replies so far have ignored the actual question, are you really happy about what happened to them? The original poster said he wants things like this to happen.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-yor ... is-1269480


What a strange question. :sarcastic: Speaking for myself, of course I'm not happy about it. Two people unnecessarily lost their lives. It must be a terrible loss for their family and friends. But they took that risk and paid the ultimate price.


I totally agree it's a strange question, but we live in strange times and the original poster gave a strange and disturbing (yet not unsurprising) answer confirming his delight in the death and suffering of Christians just for singing in choir, even while the mayor of the largest city and epicenter of this pandemic was encouraging people to get together and go out in public.
 
KFTG
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:59 pm

Like clockwork...

"Anti-LGBTQ hate group will defend megachurch pastor arrested for defying coronavirus measures"

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/03/ant ... -measures/
 
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seb146
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:47 pm

seahawk wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
seahawk wrote:

See, the first have already been healed through a prayer, it is all over the news! Even in Europe.

https://www.newsweek.com/conservative-p ... ns-1492044


Sounds like copyright infringement :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja0Hs7Ryth0



If only the two dead in this Church had known that earlier....

best regards
Thomas


It is a business opportunity, you can use holy water but only in a homeopathic application.


The "megachurch" pastors are probably worried because they have storage payments for their Falcons and G5s coming due. Remember that we can not let them fly commercial!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 7535
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:27 pm

Sokes wrote:
I believe this thread should be reprinted in school history books, chapter "renaissance".
The renaissance was the transition between middle age and enlightenment. The plague and resulting doubt about god/ the church was one of many factors.

"The Renaissance began in the 14th century in Florence, Italy.[8] Various theories have been proposed to account for its origins and characteristics, focusing on a variety of factors including the social and civic peculiarities of Florence at the time: its political structure, the patronage of its dominant family, the Medici,[9][10] and the migration of Greek scholars and their texts to Italy following the Fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks.[11][12][13] Other major centres were northern Italian city-states such as Venice, Genoa, Milan, Bologna, and finally Rome during the Renaissance Papacy.
...
In politics, the Renaissance contributed to the development of the customs and conventions of diplomacy, and in science to an increased reliance on observation and inductive reasoning.
...
Some observers have called into question whether the Renaissance was a cultural "advance" from the Middle Ages, instead seeing it as a period of pessimism and nostalgia for classical antiquity,[16] while social and economic historians, especially of the longue durée, have instead focused on the continuity between the two eras,[17] which are linked, as Panofsky observed, "by a thousand ties".
...
Political philosophers, most famously Niccolò Machiavelli, sought to describe political life as it really was, that is to understand it rationally
...
In all, the Renaissance could be viewed as an attempt by intellectuals to study and improve the secular and worldly, both through the revival of ideas from antiquity, and through novel approaches to thought. Some scholars, such as Rodney Stark,[24] play down the Renaissance in favour of the earlier innovations of the Italian city-states in the High Middle Ages, which married responsive government, Christianity and the birth of capitalism. This analysis argues that, whereas the great European states (France and Spain) were absolutist monarchies, and others were under direct Church control, the independent city republics of Italy took over the principles of capitalism invented on monastic estates and set off a vast unprecedented commercial revolution that preceded and financed the Renaissance.
...
Arab logicians had inherited Greek ideas after they had invaded and conquered Egypt and the Levant. Their translations and commentaries on these ideas worked their way through the Arab West into Iberia and Sicily, which became important centers for this transmission of ideas. From the 11th to the 13th century, many schools dedicated to the translation of philosophical and scientific works from Classical Arabic to Medieval Latin were established in Iberia. Most notably the Toledo School of Translators. This work of translation from Islamic culture, though largely unplanned and disorganized, constituted one of the greatest transmissions of ideas in history.[31] The movement to reintegrate the regular study of Greek literary, historical, oratorical and theological texts back into the Western European curriculum is usually dated to the 1396 invitation from Coluccio Salutati to the Byzantine diplomat and scholar Manuel Chrysoloras (c. 1355–1415) to teach Greek in Florence.[32] This legacy was continued by a number of expatriate Greek scholars, from Basilios Bessarion to Leo Allatius.
...
Historian and political philosopher Quentin Skinner points out that Otto of Freising (c. 1114–1158), a German bishop visiting north Italy during the 12th century, noticed a widespread new form of political and social organization, observing that Italy appeared to have exited from Feudalism so that its society was based on merchants and commerce. Linked to this was anti-monarchical thinking, represented in the famous early Renaissance fresco cycle The Allegory of Good and Bad Government by Ambrogio Lorenzetti (painted 1338–1340), whose strong message is about the virtues of fairness, justice, republicanism and good administration. Holding both Church and Empire at bay, these city republics were devoted to notions of liberty. Skinner reports that there were many defences of liberty such as the Matteo Palmieri (1406–1475) celebration of Florentine genius not only in art, sculpture and architecture, but "the remarkable efflorescence of moral, social and political philosophy that occurred in Florence at the same time".
...
Even cities and states beyond central Italy, such as the Republic of Florence at this time, were also notable for their merchant Republics, especially the Republic of Venice. Although in practice these were oligarchical, and bore little resemblance to a modern democracy, they did have democratic features and were responsive states, with forms of participation in governance and belief in liberty.[35][36][37] The relative political freedom they afforded was conducive to academic and artistic advancement.[38] Likewise, the position of Italian cities such as Venice as great trading centres made them intellectual crossroads. Merchants brought with them ideas from far corners of the globe, particularly the Levant. Venice was Europe's gateway to trade with the East, and a producer of fine glass, while Florence was a capital of textiles. The wealth such business brought to Italy meant large public and private artistic projects could be commissioned and individuals had more leisure time for study.
...
One theory that has been advanced is that the devastation in Florence caused by the Black Death, which hit Europe between 1348 and 1350, resulted in a shift in the world view of people in 14th-century Italy. Italy was particularly badly hit by the plague, and it has been speculated that the resulting familiarity with death caused thinkers to dwell more on their lives on Earth, rather than on spirituality and the afterlife.[39] It has also been argued that the Black Death prompted a new wave of piety, manifested in the sponsorship of religious works of art.[40] However, this does not fully explain why the Renaissance occurred specifically in Italy in the 14th century. The Black Death was a pandemic that affected all of Europe in the ways described, not only Italy. The Renaissance's emergence in Italy was most likely the result of the complex interaction of the above factors.[14] "
More to come: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance

"Venice was Europe's gateway to trade with the East, and a producer of fine glass, while Florence was a capital of textiles. The wealth such business brought to Italy meant large public and private artistic projects could be commissioned and individuals had more leisure time for study."
Pretty much the same way Hayek argues in "The Constitution of liberty". Advances happen by some people being damn rich. He celebrates inequality. It's quite a provocation. But it also is quite difficult to prove him wrong.
I believe "The truth is in the middle" means that having working poor is overdoing it. Also inequality in middle ages didn't lead to anything. Excess resources have to be in the hands of an Elon Musk, not some oil prince who spends it on 20 luxury cars.


I'm missing the lessons to-be-learned by today's students.

You do realize that 21st Century students have a huge advantage of anyone born in the 20th Century.
Those of us of the 20th had nowhere near the awareness, the acuity and the tools to sustain and enhance those advantages.
Then add in the fact that people in general (today and yesteryear) are extremely poor students of lessons of human history.

And in today's break neck' speed of technological innovations., introductions to the new coming tech/science based economy.
Now add in how poorly we keep pace with the above...how would this be of any useful interest of this new age audience of students?

They already know (and have concluded) just how mostly everyone back then were illiterate AF and even the bible was no available to common people...in other words, most people were rather ignorant. All the traits you've described of the era encapsulates the well to do and the connected...everyone (the majority) else just followed the leaders.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seahawk
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:50 am

seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Sounds like copyright infringement :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja0Hs7Ryth0



If only the two dead in this Church had known that earlier....

best regards
Thomas


It is a business opportunity, you can use holy water but only in a homeopathic application.


The "megachurch" pastors are probably worried because they have storage payments for their Falcons and G5s coming due. Remember that we can not let them fly commercial!


The eleventh commandment, you shall not serve the Lord in economy.
 
Sokes
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:16 am

BN747 wrote:
All the traits you've described of the era encapsulates the well to do and the connected...everyone (the majority) else just followed the leaders.

I don't agree. People were not allowed to think loud if it contradicted church opinion or religious sentiment. Or maybe they were allowed, but only on the cost of social stigma.The plague opened the mind maybe of a majority, maybe of a significant minority, to tolerate critical views. Arguments became more evidence based, as opposed to dogma based.
Interesting though that this type of reasoning (assumptions really) is supported only by evidence from Italy.
There is no mass dying today. The plague killed maybe 30%, maybe 80% of villagers. If you see how heated the arguments in this thread are, how heated they must have been between survivors of the plague?
Of course you are right that new ways always have to be shown by individuals. The mass follows.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
BN747
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:22 am

Sokes wrote:
BN747 wrote:
All the traits you've described of the era encapsulates the well to do and the connected...everyone (the majority) else just followed the leaders.

I don't agree. People were not allowed to think loud if it contradicted church opinion or religious sentiment. Or maybe they were allowed, but only on the cost of social stigma.The plague opened the mind maybe of a majority, maybe of a significant minority, to tolerate critical views. Arguments became more evidence based, as opposed to dogma based.
Interesting though that this type of reasoning (assumptions really) is supported only by evidence from Italy.
There is no mass dying today. The plague killed maybe 30%, maybe 80% of villagers. If you see how heated the arguments in this thread are, how heated they must have been between survivors of the plague?
Of course you are right that new ways always have to be shown by individuals. The mass follows.


No kidding, just ask Giordano Bruno or Galileo Galilei...1st hand witnesses on what was done to you.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Sokes
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:11 am

BN747 wrote:
No kidding, just ask Giordano Bruno or Galileo Galilei...1st hand witnesses on what was done to you.

"Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (1632), which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point."
Hannam, J. (2009). God's philosophers: how the medieval world laid the foundations of modern science. (I didn't read. It's the source Wikipedia states.)
People good in science are often not very smart in social affairs. Maybe he overdid it.
About the Jesuits: This is not the first time that I thought "Only Nixon can go to China" in connection with Jesuits.

cite note 12 of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_ ... gatti18-12 :
" Gatti, Hilary (2002). Giordano Bruno and Renaissance Science: Broken Lives and Organizational Power. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press. pp. 18–19. ISBN 978-0801487859. Retrieved 21 March 2014. For Bruno was claiming for the philosopher a principle of free thought and inquiry which implied an entirely new concept of authority: that of the individual intellect in its serious and continuing pursuit of an autonomous inquiry… It is impossible to understand the issue involved and to evaluate justly the stand made by Bruno with his life without appreciating the question of free thought and liberty of expression. His insistence on placing this issue at the centre of both his work and of his defense is why Bruno remains so much a figure of the modern world. If there is, as many have argued, an intrinsic link between science and liberty of inquiry, then Bruno was among those who guaranteed the future of the newly emerging sciences, as well as claiming in wider terms a general principle of free thought and expression."

Your objection is valid. I can't answer it. I once read that the renaissance was a consequence of people's frustration with religion during the plague. Therefore I posted what I posted. But I'm no expert in Renaissance. Maybe the old forces were weakened, but fought back? I don't know. It's possible that I'm wrong.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 7535
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:21 pm

Sokes wrote:
BN747 wrote:
No kidding, just ask Giordano Bruno or Galileo Galilei...1st hand witnesses on what was done to you.

"Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (1632), which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point."
Hannam, J. (2009). God's philosophers: how the medieval world laid the foundations of modern science. (I didn't read. It's the source Wikipedia states.)
People good in science are often not very smart in social affairs. Maybe he overdid it.
About the Jesuits: This is not the first time that I thought "Only Nixon can go to China" in connection with Jesuits.

cite note 12 of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_ ... gatti18-12 :
" Gatti, Hilary (2002). Giordano Bruno and Renaissance Science: Broken Lives and Organizational Power. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press. pp. 18–19. ISBN 978-0801487859. Retrieved 21 March 2014. For Bruno was claiming for the philosopher a principle of free thought and inquiry which implied an entirely new concept of authority: that of the individual intellect in its serious and continuing pursuit of an autonomous inquiry… It is impossible to understand the issue involved and to evaluate justly the stand made by Bruno with his life without appreciating the question of free thought and liberty of expression. His insistence on placing this issue at the centre of both his work and of his defense is why Bruno remains so much a figure of the modern world. If there is, as many have argued, an intrinsic link between science and liberty of inquiry, then Bruno was among those who guaranteed the future of the newly emerging sciences, as well as claiming in wider terms a general principle of free thought and expression."

Your objection is valid. I can't answer it. I once read that the renaissance was a consequence of people's frustration with religion during the plague. Therefore I posted what I posted. But I'm no expert in Renaissance. Maybe the old forces were weakened, but fought back? I don't know. It's possible that I'm wrong.


Because of the Catholic Church's CIA network (confession) that was the modis operandi of detecting people's frustration with the church, that's how they knew to 'crack down' and whip up fear and reinstate firm rule when they perceived 'spirits' to on the wane. Galileo only recanted when his back was against the wall (the trial) as did many before him and after him..and I can name a few. Bu the ebb and flow of Church crackdowns and lulls are anticipatory and expected back then. Today, when Mega Pastors try to whip up fear (like now is the perfect time to exploit the frightened as some are trying do, fortunately there are billions of followers of all faiths) but also unfortunately for them is the fact that too many are so beyond that 'religious fear' these days and we can't be silenced or shut down - they can only work with those who place themselves into their hands.

I don't really need to documented accounts of the Renaissance (because those accounts lack so much diverse samples of opinions of the time, so it defaults to a general understanding of events - which is why as we retrospectively review history, we find major errors with each re-telling) to gauge what was the mood of people at the time, I look at the actions of the church to determine when it felt threatened (nearly always) and when it was not - example, when you have free flowing demos such as the period of courtesans, openly accepted homosexual practices - it occurred during a period of the church's guard is down for whatever reason, a new pope not as strict as the last, a scandal who knows but what ever vices sprung forth - it did so with church prominent church players also participating in the latest fad 'de jour' until leadership could not take it any longer (aka it's spreading beyond 'our' control..'stop it and stop it now' became the order. People react to fear the same way since the beginning of recorded history and before. It's about understanding people in full panic mode. Enlightenment was an era when the church was most likely on it's heels fighting to keep the faithful 'in check'. Poor people could not and did not usher in that period, they had no such influence. It was the wealthy class that influenced and made that period possible and it caught the church off guard, short of answers as 'reason' took a quantum leap sort of speak.

Just like this very moment, people worldwide are frightened.
Most are indeed 'praying' and seeking comfort (answers) ..and none will be coming.
Steadfast atheist like myself, see through all this because when it comes down to it...leadership and guidance is lacking and people start reaching for acts of desperation (believe anything but the rational) and religion (the old tried and true).

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
GDB
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:14 pm

Despite that Christian Taliban fool getting pinched, others are still at it.
One wants to have a mass open air service. No doubt plenty of others too on varying scales (but all with the same level of selfish stupidity, like Mr Tiger the immune man on here).
As stated above, those biz jets (and mansions) don't pay for themselves!
It is after all, the one true faith....the $.

So if they chose to go to these events, those that are infected should not seek help, not infect others, just rely on their silly made up god to see them through?
Bunch of oxygen thieves.
 
Sokes
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:26 pm

My neighbors just prayed loudly: "I am vaccinated by the blood of Jesus Christ."
If they fall sick, will they loose faith in Christ or in vaccinations?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17930
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:04 pm

These church goers should be allowed to continue to congregate but 1) they should be isolated and 2) should all be refused hospitalization for anything--they have prayer.

KFTG wrote:
Like clockwork...

"Anti-LGBTQ hate group will defend megachurch pastor arrested for defying coronavirus measures"

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/03/ant ... -measures/

The Trump admin is defending them? :duck:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 7535
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Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:34 pm

Sokes wrote:
My neighbors just prayed loudly: "I am vaccinated by the blood of Jesus Christ."
If they fall sick, will they loose faith in Christ or in vaccinations?


No!

They'll come up with a justification of some kind.

The only person getting more free passes that our fat loser lying president...is Jesus himself, a fictional character who people have given everything to.

It's like kids giving their gifts back to Santa.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Sokes
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Mega Church Pastor Jailed for Soliciting Congregation to Attend Massive Services

Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:13 am

BN747 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
My neighbors just prayed loudly: "I am vaccinated by the blood of Jesus Christ."
If they fall sick, will they loose faith in Christ or in vaccinations?


No!

They'll come up with a justification of some kind.

The only person getting more free passes that our fat loser lying president...is Jesus himself, a fictional character who people have given everything to.

It's like kids giving their gifts back to Santa.


BN747

I heard there is scientific literature why only politicians who lie can succeed. I haven't read any of these books, but I think blaming a politician of lying does not make much sense.
I think there is at least one critical source of Jesus which survived from Roman time to today. Jesus was not fictional.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?

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