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speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:57 am

Aesma wrote:
We have already talked about this. Masks would be slightly beneficial if everyone wore one. Since there isn't even 1% of the supply needed to do this, then officials can't say that.

At the moment countries are literally stealing masks from each other for goodness' sake !

About GM making ventilators, and Trump's involvement : https://imgur.com/gallery/nDIX81z


This!. Don't trust the governments. Trust only yourself. If you followed the news from China, you would know what is going to happen, and got them a long time ago.
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:02 am

@Dericho
I hope you are right about temperature. I can think of a couple of big cities in Africa at altitude, though - Johannesburg (1753m) and Nairobi (1795m) where it is not so hot. If the low level cities in SA and Kenya suffer little while those two suffer a lot, that would lend weight to your idea.

La Paz in Bolivia lies at 3640m
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:18 am

art wrote:
@Dericho
I hope you are right about temperature. I can think of a couple of big cities in Africa at altitude, though - Johannesburg (1753m) and Nairobi (1795m) where it is not so hot. If the low level cities in SA and Kenya suffer little while those two suffer a lot, that would lend weight to your idea.

La Paz in Bolivia lies at 3640m


Hope? Good luck. Next thing what might happen is that the food distribution collapses. When there is no more food, I guess all know what happens. Are you prepared to defend yourself and you family or trust the government to come for help in time?
 
Derico
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:45 am

art wrote:
@Dericho
I hope you are right about temperature. I can think of a couple of big cities in Africa at altitude, though - Johannesburg (1753m) and Nairobi (1795m) where it is not so hot. If the low level cities in SA and Kenya suffer little while those two suffer a lot, that would lend weight to your idea.

La Paz in Bolivia lies at 3640m


Yes, so it will be interesting to see. I am just going on what is being both reported and what seems to be happening on the ground outside official reports.

I would even say look at Florida, yes there is a big outbreak there. But you would think with the massive daily air traffic from New York City to Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Palm Beach, it could be significantly worse already? And Texas or Southern California.... Mexico. For sure under-reporting is a huge problem in all those places but one can make the case there is a worldwide pattern to the infections across countries and within countries that seems to loosely follow climatic profiles.

On the other hand, heavy use of air conditioning may help intensify the outbreak, both because of the dirty air quality and the drier, colder air within the buildings which protects the virus from degrading on surface.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:48 am

President Trump. Almost president Hillary. Chancellor Merkel. Prime Minister Boris. Prime Minister Putin. Queen Elizabeth. General Secretary Xi. And all the rest.

Do you trust any of the above or yourself? Are you a sheep or a free man?
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:15 am

During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:32 am

JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


They can’t be - they are a permanent UNSC member, just like the US and Russia. None of these countries are ever held accountable for anything.

It is unrealistic to expect accountability from the major powers that decide how the world runs.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:35 am

JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


It is the China's Communist Dictatorship and their flock of sheep. Baa Baa Baa!!
 
Derico
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:07 am

Kind of an odd side story, there are 2300 Argentines stuck in Andorra, yes Andorra. Now this is a country with a population of barely 70.000 people. So they would be making up 3% of the population there, and cannot return to their country.

Why are they there? Andorra due to language is a logical destination for the large numbers of Argentine ski resort workers, instructors and the like who work in Andorra during the northern ski season, then return in May to the various ski resorts from Mendoza down to Bariloche, and further south to work the southern ski season. There has been no way to get them out of the tiny country since the borders across Europe are closed, and Argentina stopped "rescue" flights for overseas nationals a week or so ago.

https://www.clarin.com/politica/pedido- ... iQPPB.html
ISpanish}
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 am

Derico wrote:
Kind of an odd side story, there are 2300 Argentines stuck in Andorra, yes Andorra. Now this is a country with a population of barely 70.000 people. So they would be making up 3% of the population there, and cannot return to their country.

Why are they there? Andorra due to language is a logical destination for the large numbers of Argentine ski resort workers, instructors and the like who work in Andorra during the northern ski season, then return in May to the various ski resorts from Mendoza down to Bariloche, and further south to work the southern ski season. There has been no way to get them out of the tiny country since the borders across Europe are closed, and Argentina stopped "rescue" flights for overseas nationals a week or so ago.

https://www.clarin.com/politica/pedido- ... iQPPB.html
ISpanish}


Interesting side story, thank you for that. I hope you guys find a way to get your people back from Europe. If there is will, there is a way.
And I have always been looking forward to visit Argentina to eat the beef. When this virus shit is done, I will do that.

We all have now just been concentrating on the problems. When all this is over, I believe there will be a global carnival. Nothing seen before on the earth. What do you think it would be like?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:33 am

casinterest wrote:
Today is worse than yesterday, but luckily the past few days the virus has not spread much. Thanks in part to social distancing.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I do worry though that there will be under reported spread in poverty stricken areas of most countries. This is where i think social distancing has a high chance of failing .

Brazil, The Philippines, and India will be interesting to watch over the next few weeks to see if they can keep the virus at bay.


Careful.... the virus spreads exponentially, but testing capacity doesn't grow like that. Places that haven't been on, smart people voluntarily or government imposed, lockdown for ~2 weeks may very well just run up against testing capacity. Not to many places in that category.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
mark787
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:52 am

I echo the danger of the spread. Here in NYC it is out of control, and those people who have to work are all going to be exposed to it. I got tested yesterday and have to wait for 5 days for the results so I am locked down in my house until then. Whatever that's operating at JFK airport, mostly cargo, are all going down in flames. Where I work we are up to 5 confirmed cases and I will most likely be the next since I do have symptoms. And it is NOT a fun experience. So protect yourself as much as you can and your family. No job is worth your life. Be careful everyone.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:10 am

mark787 wrote:
No job is worth your life. Be careful everyone.


No Job is worth your life, but there are plenty of jobs that can be safely done... if your boss is on top of it. Here we got disinfectant everywhere, gloves for everything that doesn´t involve your own personal equipment, 2 meter distance rule, production, warehouse, logistics work in two no-contact shifts, production is remodeled to get workstations further apart .... 15 minutes set aside at the end of each shift to ventilate and clean surfaces, disinfect tools and the 2nd shift can only come in 15 min after the first is of the premises. Yesterday a trainee yelled at our CEO when he mindlessly walked into the kitchen... the new rules being one person only, only one person waiting outside. Everyone else is in home office...... surreal here, all alone in our office building. Essentially our CEO asked a hospital doctor friend about prevention and run this place essentially like a hospital. ..... while our vendors keep us stocked with masks..... after all if we have to close down, they can not do business with us.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Cadet985
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:21 am

Well, it’s hit the Navy, particularly the USS Theodore Roosevelt (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/uss-the ... -isolation). You have to figure the whole ship has been exposed. Should they be quarantined at sea?

And while we’re on the Navy, my understanding has been that no negative news is sent to our subs — ballistic missile subs in particular. Do you think those crews have any idea what’s going on here?

I can see some ships staying out a lot longer than planned. Might be the safest place for the crews.

Marc
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:26 am

PPVRA wrote:
Not to mention it might help make you facially aware, reducing face touching.


Most things I've read in the press suggest the opposite - because it's unnatural to the average person (non medical), the wearer actually touches their face more often.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:34 am

100K people are not going to die from the coronavirus.

This is a bullshit number from the CDC meant to scare people into staying at home (which is working)

If 20K people die in the US from the coronavirus, America will go into full lockdown mode to prevent it from going any further.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
petertenthije
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:37 am

Cadet985 wrote:
Well, it’s hit the Navy, particularly the USS Theodore Roosevelt (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/uss-the ... -isolation). You have to figure the whole ship has been exposed.
That was to be expected. A lot of people packed closely together, if one is sick pretty soon a lot of them will be sick.

The Royal Netherlands navy has been hit as well. The submarine Zr. Ms. Dolfijn had to cut an excercise short by two weeks. Out of a crew of 58, 15 people showed signs of mild flue and coughing. A doctor determined that eight persons had antibodies created by Corona, meaning that they have/had the virus.

https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/corona-dui ... t~afb200cf
Attamottamotta!
 
mark787
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:53 am

sadly my employer did neither. No masks, no gloves, no reduced staff, nothing. I don't want to mention who they are, but it would shock many to hear who it is if I did say it, and how much danger that is to the public who is currently at home expecting to get something delivered to them. Because while it is doubtful that the virus will live on a package during transit, it certainly wouldn't apply to a local person who is infected with the virus from making a local delivery and spreading it around. But I digress, big companies should have taken care of that and didn't.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:03 am

sonicruiser wrote:
100K people are not going to die from the coronavirus.

This is a bullshit number from the CDC meant to scare people into staying at home (which is working)

If 20K people die in the US from the coronavirus, America will go into full lockdown mode to prevent it from going any further.


So you think the dying will just stop when you go into lockdown?

Lets see:
20k dead at current rate would be reached at ~600k infected. Then lock down. Now some of the country have been in lock down and some people where just smart and locked themselves down, but aside of that the number rises by a factor of 3 to 6 per week.

So, two weeks later you have 5 to 21 Million infected, and at current mortality rate 160k to 700k dead, and that is about the time where the number of newly sick dies down.

Dying will peak about two weeks after that.....

The 100 - 240.000 dead are the result on some very optimistic assumption regarding those states that have a lock down and a good share of Americans having locked themselves down.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:12 am

mark787 wrote:
sadly my employer did neither. No masks, no gloves, no reduced staff, nothing. I don't want to mention who they are, but it would shock many to hear who it is if I did say it, and how much danger that is to the public who is currently at home expecting to get something delivered to them. Because while it is doubtful that the virus will live on a package during transit, it certainly wouldn't apply to a local person who is infected with the virus from making a local delivery and spreading it around. But I digress, big companies should have taken care of that and didn't.


Call your local news radio/newspaper and tell on them.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 am

N212R wrote:
art wrote:
@N212R Why do you ask?


There has been, of yet, NO verifiable scientific data to substantiate the received idea that the receptor host for the transmission of SARS CoV-2 was an animal, ie a pangolin. I'm not a scientist, so please disabuse me if I'm wrong.

As Ms. Jouhou was the first "reporter" on the Anet scene, I figured she would have a knowledgeable opinion on that question.


There's even less evidence that it wasn't zoonotic, IE: improbable, no evidence, and the idea has only been seeded by state actors trying to cause chaos. There is NO science behind that suggestion, just malice and a will to watch the world burn. It actually makes my blood boil when people perpetuate this BS. It's so evil and malicious to do in a global crisis. Shame on you.

There's plenty of information from the past decade that viruses with these genes have existed in many animals. No, it's not certain the pangolin was the intermediate host but the pangolin sars-like coronavirus has so far been the closest match.

By the way, if it's zoonotic it's possible it jumped to humans in multiple events not just one. There are suspicions but insufficient evidence that the outbreak in Guangdong may have started on its own. Anyone in contact with the infected species during that species' outbreak could have gotten it.
Last edited by Jouhou on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
情報
 
olle
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:11 am

sonicruiser wrote:
100K people are not going to die from the coronavirus.

This is a bullshit number from the CDC meant to scare people into staying at home (which is working)

If 20K people die in the US from the coronavirus, America will go into full lockdown mode to prevent it from going any further.


Sadly with 1000 + dying in NY alone per day and the peak will become in the rest of the country probably after the summer 20000 is low for NY alone during April.

2020 will be a year many wish will pass fast.

In Europe we have a terrible period until may. What happens in September will be depending on the percentage that got sick in the spring. If around 60% are reached it might be over.
 
olle
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:18 am

The corona will be over when 60% + of the population in one region has got it or there is an efficient vaccine available.

Efficient vaccine is 12-18 month away.

Summer temperatures will slow things down and winter accelerate it.

Many regions like norway denmark with total lockdown might make it to the summer but after 3 month in lockdown and economy in full tailspin will they repeat the lockdown it in september or will they let people getting sick to reach the 60%?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:21 am

olle wrote:
The corona will be over when 60% + of the population in one region has got it or there is an efficient vaccine available.


this is too infectious for 60% to be enough.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:40 am

Aaron747 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


They can’t be - they are a permanent UNSC member, just like the US and Russia. None of these countries are ever held accountable for anything.

It is unrealistic to expect accountability from the major powers that decide how the world runs.


If we look at the fact that many of us have warned of the impending danger as early as the end of January, the Western governments are equally accountable if not more so.
The Western governments decided to sit on their hands, the USA was the only one who closed their borders to China. However, what followed was a month of paasive observing until it was too late.
So in terms of warning and accountability, Western governments are more accountable for doing nothing while they had had weeks worth of warning that the situation in Wuhan was bad.
The US has CIA agents all over the place, they probably knew this as early as early January.

Everyone then sat there, did nothing until Italy started screaming all over the place.
Countries like Japan even today, over 2 months after the first untraceable major cluster was formed in Tokyo, deny that they are in a state of emergency.

After this is over, politicians who allowed the situation to deteriorate should be tried for manslaughter, unvoluntary mass murder, and put away.

In Belgium they are talking about releasing thousands of prisoners. Despite that there is no better place for self-isolation. Very good idea...

As someone mentionned above, the food supply chain is weeks, in some countries like Italy, France, Spain perhaps only days, from being disrupted. All it takes is for several supermarket workers to fall ill and the rest of them are going to stop showing up for work.
What will happen when people realise that the shutters are not going to open anymore?

Don't look at Government for guidance anymore, they are way behind on every step. Protect yourself and your family. Stay inside with enough food, supplies and start thinking what you're going to do when the power goes out, petrol stations will be closed and water stops flowing from the tap. It may not come to that, or perhaps not in your country/area, but it won't hurt to be prepared, it will give you a massive headstart over other people.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:49 am

UK is failing to organise a big ramp up in testing. News reports here suggest that while kits themselves are being manufactured there has been a delay in ordering reagents so the kits cannot be used. Beaurocratic delay?

BBC news update: UK Chemical Industries Association is reported as saying that the reagents required are available.
Last edited by art on Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Etika
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:54 am

tommy1808 wrote:
olle wrote:
The corona will be over when 60% + of the population in one region has got it or there is an efficient vaccine available.


this is too infectious for 60% to be enough.


Not really. The approximate amount of people that need to have immunity for the epidemic to die down is 1 - 1/R0. 60% immunity corresponds to R0 of 2.5, which is pretty much in the middle of the estimates. Current range of estimates for R0 of Covid-19 seem to be between 1.4 and 3.9, which would translate to needed immunity level of 28.6% and 74,4%. That is a huge interval, which shows one of big unknowns in estimating the course of the epidemic.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:11 am

I haven't finished writing my previous post or we're already getting a glimpse of things to come:

Strikes at several Delhaize supermarkets in Belgium.
https://www.gondola.be/fr/news/grogne-s ... s-ce-matin

France "tips" the food distrubution industry 2000 Euro each through Prime Macron.
This amount is paid out by companies and is exempt from fiscal and social deductions.

https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/coronavi ... 85259.html

I doubt that money will keep people at work when they see colleagues dropping on the floor right and left. They'd rather stay home with reduced pay than at work with increased pay.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:14 am

tommy1808 wrote:
olle wrote:
The corona will be over when 60% + of the population in one region has got it or there is an efficient vaccine available.


this is too infectious for 60% to be enough.

best regards
Thomas


I’ve heard medical professionals on the radio suggesting for such a contagious disease that 80% infection would be required.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
galapagapop
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:21 am

JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


So the administration, that campaigned basically on an Anti-China policy, went on a full trade war because of their questionable habits, is now blaming this on taking their word on this virus at face value?

What a garbage cop out. It's why the Trump administration was so comfortable with pulling China flights before the EU. They've built a whole anti-China platform for years. The danger this virus presented early on, due to the ability to spread without symptoms, was clear.

If we did or didn't trust China, the US absolutely had data from South Korea (we have how many people literally stationed there??) by mid February. The fact that the US continued to do absolutely zero screening at airports from other areas of the world, or put together a tracing program similar to South Korea in that time is just pure negligence. And this doesn't even get into the botched testing kit deal, which you can at best call an honest mistake.

And we don't even need to call it negligence, because it was clearly a market calming tactic the entire time. Anything more than downplaying it, was bad for the market, which some big brained person with power in the US, believes is the be all end all of the economy or what a president's job is meant to be.
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:06 pm

I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:16 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


They can’t be - they are a permanent UNSC member, just like the US and Russia. None of these countries are ever held accountable for anything.

It is unrealistic to expect accountability from the major powers that decide how the world runs.


You might want to ask the Russians about that, if you hadn’t noticed they are under sanction.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:23 pm

art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


Absolutely the case. Anyone who has worked in a halfway competent and professional organization is knows that we are watching a complete shitshow. No dedicated teams with clear authority and kission profiles, no top-down coordination of messaging and procedures, a gaggle of personalities at every presser with people contradicting each other, it’s simple looney tunes. Only because there are already functional institutions in place are things (slowly) getting done.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:24 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


They can’t be - they are a permanent UNSC member, just like the US and Russia. None of these countries are ever held accountable for anything.

It is unrealistic to expect accountability from the major powers that decide how the world runs.


You might want to ask the Russians about that, if you hadn’t noticed they are under sanction.


Quite a few Dutch families would probably not be satisfied with your take given zero accountability for MH14.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12962
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:31 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

They can’t be - they are a permanent UNSC member, just like the US and Russia. None of these countries are ever held accountable for anything.

It is unrealistic to expect accountability from the major powers that decide how the world runs.


You might want to ask the Russians about that, if you hadn’t noticed they are under sanction.


Quite a few Dutch families would probably not be satisfied with your take given zero accountability for MH14.


The plane flew over a war zone, it was shot down, people died, the airline should bare responsibility for that. That’s my take on the situation.
 
olle
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:33 pm

NY state must today be considered the new centre of this sickness.

1000 dead in 24 hours on 20 million people equals 2500 dead per day in spain with 47 million.

Sweden by the way declared 59 dead for 10 million equals close 300 in spain.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 1008
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:35 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
During today's Coronavirus press conference (March 31st), Dr Birx basically stated that China lied.

She said that when she and her collegues were looking at the developments in China, they thought this was an Ebola type of situation because of the low reported numbers. If her and Dr Fauci thought so, I'm also guessing that was the case with other experts in the West.

There are a lot of journalists and media commentators out there, who have been praising China's response, and some even acting gleeful when US cases rose higher than the official CCP China numbers.Those same journalists are the ones now questioning why nothing was done sooner.

That is hypocrisy or extreme naivety.

There really is no question if China lied or not. All the data models says that is the case. The question is if they will be held accountable or not after this is over.


They can’t be - they are a permanent UNSC member, just like the US and Russia. None of these countries are ever held accountable for anything.

It is unrealistic to expect accountability from the major powers that decide how the world runs.


You might want to ask the Russians about that, if you hadn’t noticed they are under sanction.


And rightly (though grossly insufficiently) so. Invaders need punishment, and current sanctions are literally "kids gloves" treatment.
Only abject idiocy of the West of leaving Russia with nukes after 1991, while denuclearizing the most obvious potential victims of their revanchism, got us into this place. So sanctioning Russia into reason is the only remaining tool.
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N757ST
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:56 pm

olle wrote:
NY state must today be considered the new centre of this sickness.

1000 dead in 24 hours on 20 million people equals 2500 dead per day in spain with 47 million.

Sweden by the way declared 59 dead for 10 million equals close 300 in spain.


Your numbers are way off and borderline dishonest. 300 people died in NY state, the vast majority of which were in New York City, a city of nearly 9 million. I could be wrong, but aren’t most of Spain’s infections in the Madrid area? That city is half the size of NYC. Yes, NYC is hard hit and it’ll get worse, but your stats are creating a false equivalency that NYC is impacted worse then Europe.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:16 pm

Unless this is April 1 related, change of heart about masks

Trying to avoid mask shortages for healthcare workers appears to have been the main priority of those arguing against widespread their widespread use. But while the motivation behind this may have been good, such advice may have actually helped spread the virus, thus adding to the number of patients overwhelming hospitals.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/asia/cor ... index.html
All posts are just opinions.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:18 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Today is worse than yesterday, but luckily the past few days the virus has not spread much. Thanks in part to social distancing.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I do worry though that there will be under reported spread in poverty stricken areas of most countries. This is where i think social distancing has a high chance of failing .

Brazil, The Philippines, and India will be interesting to watch over the next few weeks to see if they can keep the virus at bay.


Careful.... the virus spreads exponentially, but testing capacity doesn't grow like that. Places that haven't been on, smart people voluntarily or government imposed, lockdown for ~2 weeks may very well just run up against testing capacity. Not to many places in that category.

Best regards
Thomas


I agree with that , and that is what concerns me about poverty stricken areas. The ones that haven't gotten the social distancing message, or can't implement it due to work or living concerns.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
speedking
Posts: 152
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:29 pm

art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life, who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?
 
MarcoT
Posts: 247
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:40 pm

speedking wrote:
art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life, who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?


Any bright twelve years old?
Well, on second thought, I have exaggerated to make a point. Make that fourteen years old :)
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
Concierge
Posts: 105
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:50 pm

speedking wrote:
art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life, who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?
,

We're all dependent on the government, it's just a matter of degree. Your deflection doesn't change the fact that this administration 's response has been a failure.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:51 pm

MarcoT wrote:
speedking wrote:
art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life, who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?


Any bright twelve years old?
Well, on second thought, I have exaggerated to make a point. Make that fourteen years old :)


But at least it is one of the rare moments where The Rock and a rock don't both come out on top of Trump performance wise.

Since it is probably the only time where doing nothing wouldn't make him a better president.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:07 pm

speedking wrote:
art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life...


I don't just seem to be dependent on the government. I am. While I have been licensed to fly, I doubt that a hang glider or a glider or a 172 would really work too well in intercepting a Russian bomber heading for UK airspace. Another problem - I have not built a radar system to detect said potential threat. I think it is a better idea to rely on the dreaded government to do that. Like I rely on my government to light the road I live down, build roads etc

speedking wrote:
...who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?


I don't know.

That's one of the differences betweem me and Mr D. I have the impression that Mr D is convinced he is omniscient. I'm not. In both the IQ tests I took, I fell short of Mensa level. I'm fairly confident that Mr D knows he's way above that level without needing to mess around taking silly tests.
 
anrec80
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:19 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
You might want to ask the Russians about that, if you hadn’t noticed they are under sanction.


And Russians in turn are asking those who imposed the sanctions. Their position is "The sanctions is the problem of those who imposed them".
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15207
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

The use of some sort of mask by the general public with the Covid-19 is hotly debated. N95 masks should be prioritized for use by medical professionals and first responders. We should take a lesson from many Asian countries where basic cloth masks are often worn long before the pandemic due to high particulate air pollution levels but also how people are close together to limit transfer of common cold and flu viruses. With the Covid-19, we also have the issue of an infection with no symptoms or don't show up for 2 to 5 days and a higher than normal flu rate of hospitalizations.

The use of light cloth masks when properly used can be 1 more way to reduce risks. Masks, along with social distancing, limiting any contact with any other persons or transfer of stuff like shopping bags to/from others, avoiding touching contaminated surfaces, frequent and sufficient hand washing, disinfecting of surfaces of possible contact like door knobs, keys, countertops, don't touch your face unless have clean hands and limiting frequency and number of going into stores like the supermarket (like 1x week). Yes, simple cloth masks are not a magic talisman, but is just one more step or layer to limit infection.
 
speedking
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:49 pm

MarcoT wrote:
speedking wrote:
art wrote:
I think the US is in the unfortunate position of having elected a narcissistic incompetent to run the country, That incompetence is most telling when a crisis arises, as it has.


As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life, who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?


Any bright twelve years old?
Well, on second thought, I have exaggerated to make a point. Make that fourteen years old :)


I guess that includes then you too?
 
N212R
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:52 pm

Jouhou wrote:
There's even less evidence that it wasn't zoonotic, IE: improbable, no evidence


The absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence.

And the idea has only been seeded by state actors trying to cause chaos.


The CCP couldn't have said it better.

There is NO science behind that suggestion, just malice and a will to watch the world burn.


I'm curious how long it took for the international scientific community to trace the MERS & SARS coronavirus outbreaks back to their animal hosts? Just as a comparison....
 
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lugie
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:58 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The use of some sort of mask by the general public with the Covid-19 is hotly debated. N95 masks should be prioritized for use by medical professionals and first responders. We should take a lesson from many Asian countries where basic cloth masks are often worn long before the pandemic due to high particulate air pollution levels but also how people are close together to limit transfer of common cold and flu viruses. With the Covid-19, we also have the issue of an infection with no symptoms or don't show up for 2 to 5 days and a higher than normal flu rate of hospitalizations.

The use of light cloth masks when properly used can be 1 more way to reduce risks. Masks, along with social distancing, limiting any contact with any other persons or transfer of stuff like shopping bags to/from others, avoiding touching contaminated surfaces, frequent and sufficient hand washing, disinfecting of surfaces of possible contact like door knobs, keys, countertops, don't touch your face unless have clean hands and limiting frequency and number of going into stores like the supermarket (like 1x week). Yes, simple cloth masks are not a magic talisman, but is just one more step or layer to limit infection.


Exactly, I don't know why people seem so averse to ordering everyone to wear a mask whenever they're out in public.

We need to preserve the N95, N99, FFP2/3 masks for medical professionals but all other masks or methods of covering one's mouth and nose can be made available to the general public (and in fact, probably every single one of us has stuff at home they can use as a mask):
People can sew their own masks (my mother has downloaded instructions and now with the help of some fabric and her sewing machine she's able to put on together in about 10 minutes), or literally just use scarfs, bandanas or anything to cover their faces, it's really not that deep.

And yes, a mask doesn't protect the wearer as we all know but

a) wearing one is probably not going to make things worse and, more importantly,
b) if masks provide protection for others, theoretically, if everyone wore masks in public they would all be protecting each other, thus extremely impeding a further spread of the virus.
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