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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:16 pm

From my understanding in early February there was no "China ban" in the US, plenty of flights continued to come from China. People who had stayed in China were barred from entering the US, that's not the same thing. And of course, US citizens could enter (and even go back and forth) without any restriction, no health check, no nothing.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:18 pm

lugie : I think it's the way to go, but can western governments easily enforce the obligation to wear something ?

Maybe social pressure would do it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Well, this settles the unnecessary debate about China's success. I hope people and media outlets stop comparing other countries to China.

China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak, U.S. Intelligence Says

China’s public reporting on cases and deaths is intentionally incomplete. Two of the officials said the report concludes that China’s numbers are fake.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gence-says
All posts are just opinions.
 
MarcoT
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:07 pm

speedking wrote:
MarcoT wrote:
speedking wrote:

As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life, who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?


Any bright twelve years old?
Well, on second thought, I have exaggerated to make a point. Make that fourteen years old :)


I guess that includes then you too?


A rather inane answer, like most of your posts here...
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:43 pm

Who said that I'm an American or actually care about any head of state in this world? Following this discussion some people just seem to have a strange derangement syndrome against the The President of the United States calling him all the names possible. On the other hand I haven't heard the Americans calling the Queen of England an ugly cu.t etc.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:04 pm

N212R wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
There's even less evidence that it wasn't zoonotic, IE: improbable, no evidence


The absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence.

And the idea has only been seeded by state actors trying to cause chaos.


The CCP couldn't have said it better.

There is NO science behind that suggestion, just malice and a will to watch the world burn.


I'm curious how long it took for the international scientific community to trace the MERS & SARS coronavirus outbreaks back to their animal hosts? Just as a comparison....


Since you aren't getting it through your head, if this interaction was in person is have already told you you're a terrible person and told you I would call the cops on you if you continued to harass me. I Think you're a horrible person for insinuating this, especially since the conspiracy is easily changed to "the U.S. Created a bioweapon" because there's no evidence, it's something someone made up and pulled out of their ass. OK?

Realize you're a bad person and you should leave me alone.
情報
 
StarAC17
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm

N212R wrote:
Guess I'll ask Ms. Jouhou again....

Do you believe the SARS-CoV-2 virus was transmitted via a pangolin host?

You stated in your opening post of Jan. 14, "The cases all originate at a seafood market."

On what did you base that declaratory statement?


That is what is theorized that it was transmitted from a Bat to Pangolin then to humans at the Wuhan wet market. This is where live animals that usually do not share habitats with humans or each other interact. Biological materials are shared between the animals at the wet markets and then humans make contact with the viruses that have mutated or haven't and are able to infect us. In nature the odds of this happening naturally is very low but with humans destroying animal ecosystems and things like wet markets I think we are just lucky this hasn't happened more.

SARS was similar being from a Civet Cat at a wet market in China but far more destructive in its symptoms which is why is fizzled out (that and we were lucky) and same with Ebola, there was hardly anyone who had mild symptoms and were asymptomatic (the mortality rate of SARS was 10%). The more dangerous the infection is the more likely that it is to spread like COVID-19 is relatively mild but as seen is spreads like hot-cakes. The challenge is there is no vaccine and no viable treatments as of yet, once there is then we will get back to normal slowly.

PPVRA wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Finally, Dr.Fauci and President Trump now recommending the public to use something to cover the nose and mouth, like scarf or bandana.
Dr. Fauci even said if masks were not in short supply for medical pros, he would be inclined to recommend for public use.

Where are all the experts recommending it is bad?


Is the WHO recommending this yet? I don't think they did, either.

Not trying to defend anyone. I get that asking people not to buy masks unnecessarily is a good thing, but that doesn't mean they should tell people bad information.


IIRC masks only really help if you are the one that is sick. If you aren't then good hygiene is your best protector against COVID-19
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 pm

galapagapop wrote:
What a garbage cop out. It's why the Trump administration was so comfortable with pulling China flights before the EU. They've built a whole anti-China platform for years. The danger this virus presented early on, due to the ability to spread without symptoms, was clear.

If we did or didn't trust China, the US absolutely had data from South Korea (we have how many people literally stationed there??) by mid February.


By mid-Feb South Korea reported 28 cases...
That's the worst thing China committed thanks to its colossal lies [and useless, corrupt WHO toeing pro-Chinese line]. They left everoyone in information vacuum for many weeks

Speaking of the WHO... just a retrospect reminder how criminally ignorant the organization has bern, putting its pro-Chinese stance above anything:

Bangkok Post, 1.2.2020
WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus specifically discouraged any such measures.

“The WHO doesn’t recommend and actually opposes any restrictions for travel and trade or other measures against China,” he said, while praising China’s response to the outbreak. “If anyone is thinking about taking measures, it’s going to be wrong.”

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/18483 ... who-advice
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:01 pm

Some sensible advice from none other than Samuel L Jackson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUakLzaboMo
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:12 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
...
IIRC masks only really help if you are the one that is sick. If you aren't then good hygiene is your best protector against COVID-19


Apparently, that recommendation is the result of

Science is based on Seasonal Flu, not based on SARS and COVID is even more potent
Strategy based on the shortage of PPEs for healthcare workers
Anecdotal data claiming it will do more harm to the public when used improperly.

There was a lady on CNN a few minutes back explaining how China, Hongkong, and Taiwan realized homemade masks reduced infections during SARS Sanjay Gupta, who was parroting no-mask every time just kept quiet.

With a large number of asymptomatic carriers are spreading the virus.
So if everyone acts as if they have it, ie., cover nose, mouth and even wear glasses. it will slow down further.

if you have it unknowingly, you won't spread. If you don't have your exposure is limited, dose is reduced.

We are hearing only about droplet transmission. There is not much talk about aerosol and fecal-oral transmissions.
All posts are just opinions.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:23 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
IIRC masks only really help if you are the one that is sick. If you aren't then good hygiene is your best protector against COVID-19

The thing is: People who are infected yet asymptomatic can run around for many days or even weeks spreading the disease further and further. Even if DIY face masks reduce the amount of released infectious microparticles when coughing, sneezing or simply breathing less efficiently than other types of masks, I still think they should be worn (and properly treated afterwards).
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:30 pm

I hope the counties are planning on property tax rebates for the time the schools, parks, and any other public places are closed. It's asinine that some cities are closing parks after encouraging people to get exercise and fresh air.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:42 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope the counties are planning on property tax rebates for the time the schools, parks, and any other public places are closed. It's asinine that some cities are closing parks after encouraging people to get exercise and fresh air.



Why?
The schools are closed., but education systems are working on learning from home.

The parks are closed, but trails are open.

Why is it asinine that cities and counties have closed down places where social distancing doesn't work? Would you rather have kids on playgrounds crawling around ?

Why should you get a rebate when your tax dollars are going to have to be used for infrastructural setups in the schools to get home learning possible?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope the counties are planning on property tax rebates for the time the schools, parks, and any other public places are closed. It's asinine that some cities are closing parks after encouraging people to get exercise and fresh air.



Why?
The schools are closed., but education systems are working on learning from home.

The parks are closed, but trails are open.

Why is it asinine that cities and counties have closed down places where social distancing doesn't work? Would you rather have kids on playgrounds crawling around ?

Why should you get a rebate when your tax dollars are going to have to be used for infrastructural setups in the schools to get home learning possible?


I guess you missed where the Appalachian Trail has been closed. People who live in concrete jungles can't just go for a stroll in their neighborhood. And with many locations, it isn't safe. The criminals aren't going to care about any social distancing. Closing parks is just another authoritarian power play. If I can't use it or can't get any benefit from it, I shouldn't have to pay for it.
Last edited by TTailedTiger on Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:57 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
If I can't use it or can't get any benefit from it, I shouldn't have to pay for it.


Good point. I don't have any kids, so close all public schools.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:58 pm

Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
If I can't use it or can't get any benefit from it, I shouldn't have to pay for it.


Good point. I don't have any kids, so close all public schools.


You still benefit from people getting an education.
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:03 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
You still benefit from people getting an education.


Indeed! And I still benefit from public parks and trails even if I can't, at this moment, personally use them. I wouldn't blame the park rangers denying me my hike if, for instance, the trail I planned to use had been wrecked by a mudslide or a brushfire. This isn't really that different.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:11 pm

It is frequently mentioned in the stay-at-home guidelines that going outside for a walk, run, or biking is both physically and mentally beneficial. Parks have had to close because too crowded. Friends have all noticed that if you get off main city roads, or go to less popular parks you largely have them to yourself. If you regularly have to zig and zag to keep six feet away the street/path is too crowded. On my runs it regularly is only a couple times a mile I have to avoid anyone.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:13 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope the counties are planning on property tax rebates for the time the schools, parks, and any other public places are closed. It's asinine that some cities are closing parks after encouraging people to get exercise and fresh air.



Why?
The schools are closed., but education systems are working on learning from home.

The parks are closed, but trails are open.

Why is it asinine that cities and counties have closed down places where social distancing doesn't work? Would you rather have kids on playgrounds crawling around ?

Why should you get a rebate when your tax dollars are going to have to be used for infrastructural setups in the schools to get home learning possible?


I guess you missed where the Appalachian Trail has been closed. People who live in concrete jungles can't just go for a stroll in their neighborhood. And with many locations, it isn't safe. The criminals aren't going to care about any social distancing. Closing parks is just another authoritarian power play. If I can't use it or can't get any benefit from it, I shouldn't have to pay for it.


Most Americans live in leafy suburbs, not concrete jungles. And in any case, the large expanses of trees in city parks are cleaning your air anytime you step outside, so you still benefit. Yeah, thanks.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:16 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
galapagapop wrote:
What a garbage cop out. It's why the Trump administration was so comfortable with pulling China flights before the EU. They've built a whole anti-China platform for years. The danger this virus presented early on, due to the ability to spread without symptoms, was clear.

If we did or didn't trust China, the US absolutely had data from South Korea (we have how many people literally stationed there??) by mid February.


By mid-Feb South Korea reported 28 cases...
That's the worst thing China committed thanks to its colossal lies [and useless, corrupt WHO toeing pro-Chinese line]. They left everoyone in information vacuum for many weeks

Speaking of the WHO... just a retrospect reminder how criminally ignorant the organization has bern, putting its pro-Chinese stance above anything:

Bangkok Post, 1.2.2020
WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus specifically discouraged any such measures.

“The WHO doesn’t recommend and actually opposes any restrictions for travel and trade or other measures against China,” he said, while praising China’s response to the outbreak. “If anyone is thinking about taking measures, it’s going to be wrong.”

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/18483 ... who-advice


Which is why I keep saying that govt trusting/listening to Wuhan Health Organization is what essentially cause the current pandemic.

Close border? That's discrimination! But hey, China can close off first the city of Wuhan, then the whole Hubei province, and it is so fair to people living there!

Oh, and that worthless Tedros did nothing but praise China the whole way! What have WHO done since the current worldwide outbreak started? NOTHING!

(EDIT: Actually...there is something WHO did, aka cutting off a reporter from Hong Kong just bc she dare to asked about Taiwan...)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailyc ... oronavirus
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:59 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope the counties are planning on property tax rebates for the time the schools, parks, and any other public places are closed. It's asinine that some cities are closing parks after encouraging people to get exercise and fresh air.



Why?
The schools are closed., but education systems are working on learning from home.

The parks are closed, but trails are open.

Why is it asinine that cities and counties have closed down places where social distancing doesn't work? Would you rather have kids on playgrounds crawling around ?

Why should you get a rebate when your tax dollars are going to have to be used for infrastructural setups in the schools to get home learning possible?


I guess you missed where the Appalachian Trail has been closed. People who live in concrete jungles can't just go for a stroll in their neighborhood. And with many locations, it isn't safe. The criminals aren't going to care about any social distancing. Closing parks is just another authoritarian power play. If I can't use it or can't get any benefit from it, I shouldn't have to pay for it.


I guess you missed the part where the Appalachian Trail access has been closed on FEDERAL LANDS. So where do counties come into play?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:06 am

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The US has lost 1000 lives just today in the epidemic. New York has accounted for over 500 of those deaths, and about 1/3 of the new cases today. New Jersey and Michigan are continuing with high rates of new cases. Louisiana, Massachusetts, California, Illinois, and Florida all look to be close to 1000 new cases today.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:15 am

Dr. Osterholm: Obese are higher risk for coronavirus

Dr. Michael Osterholm laid out a COVID-19 study that shows that a segment of American's is at higher risk for the disease than others: the obese.

https://wccoradio.radio.com/articles/dr ... oronavirus

Not good. Europe has already reported worse disease in the obese.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:34 am

PPVRA wrote:
Dr. Osterholm: Obese are higher risk for coronavirus

Dr. Michael Osterholm laid out a COVID-19 study that shows that a segment of American's is at higher risk for the disease than others: the obese.

https://wccoradio.radio.com/articles/dr ... oronavirus

Not good. Europe has already reported worse disease in the obese.



The above is a really detail poor article and has bad conclusions and bad descriptions of the risk factors.


Here is a better one.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/31/cdc-say ... lness.html

People with diabetes, chronic lung disease, heart disease or those who smoke may be at increased risk of developing severe complications if they get infected with the coronavirus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.

I am sure obese folks qualify got quite a few of these.

The CDC found that a higher percentage of patients with underlying conditions were admitted to the hospital or into intensive care than patients without underlying conditions. About 78% of ICU patients and 71% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients had one or more reported underlying health conditions, the CDC said. In contrast, 27% of the patients who were not hospitalized had at least one underlying health condition, the agency said.


If you have underlying conditions , you are definitely more at risk .


“These preliminary findings suggest that in the United States, persons with underlying health conditions or other recognized risk factors for severe outcomes from respiratory infections appear to be at a higher risk for severe disease from COVID-19 than are persons without these conditions,” the CDC wrote. It recommended that people with underlying health conditions keep at least a 30-day supply of medication, a 2-week supply of food and other necessities and to know the COVID-19 symptoms.


Practice extreme social distancing if you have underlying conditions.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:37 am

Here is an article to really scare you. How can we be safe if it takes 10 days to get a diagnosis?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/politics ... index.html
New Jersey-based Quest Diagnostics had about 160,000 coronavirus test orders waiting to be processed on March 25, which amounted to about half of the 320,000 total orders for the tests the company had received up to that date, according to Quest internal materials obtained by CNN.


LabCorp, another major commercial lab company, said turnaround time for results is approximately four to five days, though that varies depending on factors such as transport time.
ARUP Laboratories earlier this month was accepting specimens for coronavirus testing outside of its home state of Utah but stopped that about two weeks ago due to "supply constraints in the face of extraordinary demand," the company said.

Where ever you go, there you are.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:11 am

speedking wrote:
Who said that I'm an American or actually care about any head of state in this world? Following this discussion some people just seem to have a strange derangement syndrome against the The President of the United States calling him all the names possible. On the other hand I haven't heard the Americans calling the Queen of England an ugly cu.t etc.


Is this a deranged syndrome.

Today, there was a request made to the President asking for a special enrollment period to be opened up to allow people who have lost their jobs and with that their health insurance access to the ACA, he refused.

Now, if this was any other time I could understand that, but, in the last week 3 million people have lost their jobs and again with it their health insurance.

Now my question has to be, what kind of person are you that you will not allow access to affordable health insurance during a world wide pandemic ?
 
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par13del
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:29 am

jetwet1 wrote:
Now my question has to be, what kind of person are you that you will not allow access to affordable health insurance during a world wide pandemic ?

What makes it affordable, taxes? It can't be the economy since that is shut down, so which state governors have started talking about raising taxes along with the Fed, I assume this has to be in addition to the 1.2 trillion already passed.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:33 am

jetwet1 wrote:
speedking wrote:
Who said that I'm an American or actually care about any head of state in this world? Following this discussion some people just seem to have a strange derangement syndrome against the The President of the United States calling him all the names possible. On the other hand I haven't heard the Americans calling the Queen of England an ugly cu.t etc.


Is this a deranged syndrome.

Today, there was a request made to the President asking for a special enrollment period to be opened up to allow people who have lost their jobs and with that their health insurance access to the ACA, he refused.

Now, if this was any other time I could understand that, but, in the last week 3 million people have lost their jobs and again with it their health insurance.

Now my question has to be, what kind of person are you that you will not allow access to affordable health insurance during a world wide pandemic ?


From the two cases I’ve personally tried to help with, if you’re young you’re better off outside of the ACA. If you’re old, you’re better off with COBRA....
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:22 am

Coronavirus Pandemic: A massive religious gathering at Delhi's Nizamuddin mosque earlier this month has caused a huge coronavirus scare. "The fact that when any gathering beyond 200 wasn't allowed, and there were 200 people there in Markaz, then the responsibility lies on the organisers to cancel the event," Aam Aadmi Party spokesperson Ajoy Kumar said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHHan3KlufQ
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:28 am

jetwet1 wrote:
speedking wrote:
Who said that I'm an American or actually care about any head of state in this world? Following this discussion some people just seem to have a strange derangement syndrome against the The President of the United States calling him all the names possible. On the other hand I haven't heard the Americans calling the Queen of England an ugly cu.t etc.


Is this a deranged syndrome.

Today, there was a request made to the President asking for a special enrollment period to be opened up to allow people who have lost their jobs and with that their health insurance access to the ACA, he refused.

Now, if this was any other time I could understand that, but, in the last week 3 million people have lost their jobs and again with it their health insurance.

Now my question has to be, what kind of person are you that you will not allow access to affordable health insurance during a world wide pandemic ?


Thank you for a very good question without any name-calling. If you ask me, I believe all should have access to proper health care and support during the pandemic. There is a cost on that and I'm not in a position to decide where the money comes from. However, an inaction to save people now would cause, as I see it, much bigger loss of money later. Further I believe, in the United States, it is not the President that decides this but the people.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:14 am

The lawsuits are going to start rolling in. Just like I predicted. It's refreshing to see people opposed to tyranny and the government's foot on their neck. These mayors and governors mist be held accountable. Notice that none of them have done anything to help the "non-essentials". At a minimum those businesses should have their property taxes waived for the duration that they were forced out of their work. Their livelihood has been destroyed.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... s-covid-19

https://columbialawreview.org/wp-conten ... mar-A..pdf

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/con ... -situation
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:28 am

A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-outbreak

Jamie Lloyd-Smith, a UCLA infectious disease researcher, said it’s possible that the forceful breathing action of singing dispersed viral particles in the church room that were widely inhaled.

“One could imagine that really trying to project your voice would also project more droplets and aerosols,” he said.

Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech and an expert on airborne transmission of viruses, said some people happen to be especially good at exhaling fine material, producing 1,000 times more than others.


I now resent the "hard laughers" I encounter in public.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:34 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, this settles the unnecessary debate about China's success. I hope people and media outlets stop comparing other countries to China.

China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak, U.S. Intelligence Says

China’s public reporting on cases and deaths is intentionally incomplete. Two of the officials said the report concludes that China’s numbers are fake.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gence-says


You mean now Trump trusts the intelligence community ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:06 am

Aesma wrote:
From my understanding in early February there was no "China ban" in the US, plenty of flights continued to come from China. People who had stayed in China were barred from entering the US, that's not the same thing. And of course, US citizens could enter (and even go back and forth) without any restriction, no health check, no nothing.


continue, there are still China <-> US flights.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:55 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
The lawsuits are going to start rolling in. Just like I predicted. It's refreshing to see people opposed to tyranny and the government's foot on their neck. These mayors and governors mist be held accountable. Notice that none of them have done anything to help the "non-essentials". At a minimum those businesses should have their property taxes waived for the duration that they were forced out of their work. Their livelihood has been destroyed.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... s-covid-19

https://columbialawreview.org/wp-conten ... mar-A..pdf

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/con ... -situation


Meanwhile, essential employees quit their jobs or take leave like I have because we aren't safe. You're only telling half of the story, it sucks to have to work in the middle of this too. F*ck getting an illness that will put me in a hospital on a ventilator that will leave me thousands of dollars in a hole even with insurance.

No one in the U.S. Can afford getting this virus either. It's cheaper to lose your job than to have to pay for being hospitalized.
情報
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:01 am

Jouhou wrote:
F*ck getting an illness that will put me in a hospital on a ventilator that will leave me thousands of dollars in a hole even with insurance.

No one in the U.S. Can afford getting this virus either. It's cheaper to lose your job than to have to pay for being hospitalized.


Interesting view. It suggests that universal health care where the state pays can be less damaging to a state's economy than a private healthcare system.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:16 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope the counties are planning on property tax rebates for the time the schools, parks, and any other public places are closed. It's asinine that some cities are closing parks after encouraging people to get exercise and fresh air.



Why?
The schools are closed., but education systems are working on learning from home.

The parks are closed, but trails are open.

Why is it asinine that cities and counties have closed down places where social distancing doesn't work? Would you rather have kids on playgrounds crawling around ?

Why should you get a rebate when your tax dollars are going to have to be used for infrastructural setups in the schools to get home learning possible?


I guess you missed where the Appalachian Trail has been closed. People who live in concrete jungles can't just go for a stroll in their neighborhood. And with many locations, it isn't safe. The criminals aren't going to care about any social distancing. Closing parks is just another authoritarian power play. If I can't use it or can't get any benefit from it, I shouldn't have to pay for it.


Tax credits to those that followed and promoted social distancing, and tax hikes to make it up for those that didn't, with an extra 10% tax on top for the "nothing to see" fraction.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Flying-Tiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:21 am

art wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
F*ck getting an illness that will put me in a hospital on a ventilator that will leave me thousands of dollars in a hole even with insurance.

No one in the U.S. Can afford getting this virus either. It's cheaper to lose your job than to have to pay for being hospitalized.


Interesting view. It suggests that universal health care where the state pays can be less damaging to a state's economy than a private healthcare system.


No surprise. As long as health is treated as an industry which needs to make a profit vs. a more-or-less non-for profit operation you´ll have remifications all along.

There are merits to both systems, and there is no need for a 100% private or 100% state funded system, however a combination seems to work fine.

In Germany we´ve a system combining both:

Income side


1. Up to a certain income level you as an employee are a de-facto mandatory member of a "Gesetzliche Krankenkasse", which means a government regulared health insureance. There are some of them to allow for competition of service and make sure there innovations. The amount you´ve to pay is a percentage of your income fixed by the government plus a smaller amount variable as per insurance company. Part of this payment comes from your employer, too, which makes it about 40% employer, 60% employee financed.

2. Above a certain threshold you´re allowed to opt-out of the mandatory scheme and to go for a private health insurance company. This is usually arractive for younger, well-earning and healthy people, however comes with the catch that the way back into the public system is quite limited. You cannot earn the fruits by paying little whilst you´re health and once you would need to pay more due to detoriating health you go back to public and have the broad audience paying, that´s not working.

3. The "Gesetzliche Krankenkasse" has a strict catalouge of what is paid, treated etc, and you as a private individual have the chance to but private additional insurance. E.g for teeth treatment - if you don´t want to have ceramics but gold you need to pay extra as the second option is not paid by the public insurance. As an example.

Means, in a broader sense, the income side of things is a mix of govenment fixed prices plus private variables for the majority plus a private system.

Spending side

It follows more or less the same lines. The services and medication catalouge is fixed in terms of prices for the public health insurance but free on the private side. Means that private usually pays (far) more but gets better treatment, however there is no way in the current system where you can completely fall through the net.

Hospitals etc. are usually run as for-profit-organizations, depending on who is owning them. Which is often a point for discussion, however is a fair one. As long as medical quality is ensured, competition is good for innovation.

Security for employees

If you get sick (as an employee) your employer has the obligation to pay our salary for six weeks, with part of it being reimbursed by the health insurace. After six weeks you drop out of this scheme and move to a direct reimbursement scheme with the health insurance, albeit at lower terms.

Practically speaking this is a major element to make sure sick people stay at home and don´t come to work, spreading sickness.

It´s a bit simplified, but along these lines the German - and a number of other European health systems - run.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:39 am

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Means that private usually pays (far) more but gets better treatment, however there is no way in the current system where you can completely fall through the net. .


Just to clarify: better service perhaps, better treatment not really, only your fight with the insurance over getting that treatment may be easier (and the experience from my friends with private insurance tells me most of those are not any more likely to approve a treatment not on the mandatory list than the public ones), unless the provider goes 100% private clients only, because even giving out sooner appointments for the privately insured is punishable by loosing your ability to take in public insured customers, which make up most of the throughput for most doctors. Plenty of doctors of course still try to, but the screws have been made a lot tighter in the last couple of years.
Better treatment you can get in a 100% private patients only facility and if you pay out of pocket, as soon as a health insurance, the private ones usually run for profit, is involved they get just as penny pinching as anyone else.
Everything around treatment can of course be better, from the Cappuccino machine in the waiting area to the single occupancy suit in a hospital/rehabilitation facility, but most of it can be covered with an extra insurance on top of the public one for reasonably little money.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
GDB
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:18 pm

Look at this 'rockstar' of a GOP State Governor in action;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-7XJhuEnjY

'Ah had no idea that asymptomatic people could transmit this'.

How many 'Dumb and Dumber' movies have been made? I know there was a sequel, never seen any myself.
Just pitching an idea for another, 'starring' this berk and the FLA governor.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:22 pm

If the government had not forced people to pay for preventive health services through their insurance (which is totally illogical if you know what “insurance” is) then everybody would have better insurance for things like this.

But no, we don’t want to see any $ at the doctors office... because of some ideological reasoning. So much for evidence-based policy....
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:26 pm

PPVRA wrote:
If the government had not forced people to pay for preventive health services through their insurance (which is totally illogical if you know what “insurance” is) then everybody would have better insurance for things like this.

But no, we don’t want to see any $ at the doctors office... because of some ideological reasoning. So much for evidence-based policy....



Maybe if preventative services had been enacted sooner, and helped people managed their health we wouldn't have so many with Pre existing conditions that are susceptible to this.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
If the government had not forced people to pay for preventive health services through their insurance (which is totally illogical if you know what “insurance” is) then everybody would have better insurance for things like this.

But no, we don’t want to see any $ at the doctors office... because of some ideological reasoning. So much for evidence-based policy....



Maybe if preventative services had been enacted sooner, and helped people managed their health we wouldn't have so many with Pre existing conditions that are susceptible to this.


Doubt it. The entire planet is getting fatter, free healthcare or not... it’s the problem with people getting wealthier, they eat more...
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:37 pm

Prices of labor, prices of pharmaceuticals, and administrative costs are the key drivers of high U.S. healthcare spending

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... lth-costs/


Funneling preventive services through insurance is going to turbo charge admin costs. There are other issues too with including this part of healthcare within an insurance system.
Last edited by PPVRA on Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:38 pm

PPVRA wrote:
Prices of labor, prices of pharmaceuticals, and administrative costs are the key drivers of high U.S. healthcare spending

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... lth-costs/



The main issue is the barrier to entry for competition.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:59 pm

PPVRA wrote:
casinterest wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
If the government had not forced people to pay for preventive health services through their insurance (which is totally illogical if you know what “insurance” is) then everybody would have better insurance for things like this.

But no, we don’t want to see any $ at the doctors office... because of some ideological reasoning. So much for evidence-based policy....



Maybe if preventative services had been enacted sooner, and helped people managed their health we wouldn't have so many with Pre existing conditions that are susceptible to this.


Doubt it. The entire planet is getting fatter, free healthcare or not... it’s the problem with people getting wealthier, they eat more...


Well , when schools sacrifice PE for academic cores, this is part of the issue.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N212R
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:26 pm

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/one-wo ... round-zero

Time to spool up the engines, get up to speed...and question much received "wisdom".
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:34 pm

N212R wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/one-worst-coverups-human-history-msm-turns-gaze-chinese-biolab-near-covid-19-ground-zero

Time to spool up the engines, get up to speed...and question much received "wisdom".


I used to read Zerohedge for laughs now and again as they would put out zany investment theories a few years ago. Now they are just a clearinghouse for all kinds of wack - although they occasionally feature interesting pieces from folks like David Stockman.

Use a pinch of salt, every time.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11514
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:46 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N212R wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/one-worst-coverups-human-history-msm-turns-gaze-chinese-biolab-near-covid-19-ground-zero

Time to spool up the engines, get up to speed...and question much received "wisdom".


I used to read Zerohedge for laughs now and again as they would put out zany investment theories a few years ago. Now they are just a clearinghouse for all kinds of wack - although they occasionally feature interesting pieces from folks like David Stockman.

Use a pinch of salt, every time.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/


Well it explains the posters motivations a bit .

From the article.

Overall, we rate Zero Hedge an extreme right biased conspiracy website based on the promotion of false/misleading/debunked information that routinely denigrates the left.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N212R
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:16 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N212R wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/one-worst-coverups-human-history-msm-turns-gaze-chinese-biolab-near-covid-19-ground-zero

Time to spool up the engines, get up to speed...and question much received "wisdom".


I used to read Zerohedge for laughs now and again as they would put out zany investment theories a few years ago. Now they are just a clearinghouse for all kinds of wack - although they occasionally feature interesting pieces from folks like David Stockman.

Use a pinch of salt, every time.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/


All good friend...thanks for that example straight out of the Alinsky textbook; attack the messenger NOT the message.

Now, if you would like to refute the scientific premise(s), I'm sure we're all ears.
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