TTailedTiger wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

TTailedTiger wrote:

I don't think you are getting my point. I'm not debating that some measures need to be in place. The virus will be gone at some point. This event will be used as precedent for future power plays. Now they have the green light to do whatever they want unless these lawsuits make it up to the supreme court. Do you really not think they would pull this stunt again for political gain if it's convenient? They can use covid19 as a Boogeyman and tell us it's happening again and need to lock us down before it spreads. How do you stop something like that? But I'm guessing you don't believe anyone in government could be so insidious.

considering that you have an administration that uses tax payer money to blackmail another country to help facilitate election fraud to stay in power your outrage should have come in January.

best regards
Thomas

You might have a point if I was being partisan. I said the Republican mayors and governors should be held accountable as well. They're all tyrants who keep extending the lockdowns. And none of you have answered my question of what woud stop them from making it permanent.

a) the next election
b) courts

as always with executive overreach (which we don´t have). Aside of that you brilliant, but dated, constitution doesn´t offer anything, while i would have the constitutional right to blow up my government if they try.

best regards
Thomas

L410Turbolet wrote:

Aesma wrote:

lugie : I think it's the way to go, but can western governments easily enforce the obligation to wear something ?

Maybe social pressure would do it.

Social pressure did miracles over here [Czech Rep.]. Someone (definitely not the government) started a campaign #masks4all encouraging people to wear face masks (following government imposed rule to wear masks whenever leaving home under quarantine rules).
The message is simple: "My facemask protects you, your facemask protects me". The response was surprisingly positive from a nation that has been until a month ago deeply divided, often lethargic and not easy to really behind anything positive. It took 2 days for 99+% people to buy into this with people taking own initiative into their hands and self-supplying themselves, friends, relatives, elderly people with makeshift face masks.
These facemasks are far from perfect, but they provide barrier against droplets and they leave professional facemasks to those who professionaly come into contact with Dick people.

Austria has also made it mandatory.

Aesma wrote:

L410Turbolet wrote:

Aesma wrote:

lugie : I think it's the way to go, but can western governments easily enforce the obligation to wear something ?

Maybe social pressure would do it.

Social pressure did miracles over here [Czech Rep.]. Someone (definitely not the government) started a campaign #masks4all encouraging people to wear face masks (following government imposed rule to wear masks whenever leaving home under quarantine rules).
The message is simple: "My facemask protects you, your facemask protects me". The response was surprisingly positive from a nation that has been until a month ago deeply divided, often lethargic and not easy to really behind anything positive. It took 2 days for 99+% people to buy into this with people taking own initiative into their hands and self-supplying themselves, friends, relatives, elderly people with makeshift face masks.
These facemasks are far from perfect, but they provide barrier against droplets and they leave professional facemasks to those who professionaly come into contact with Dick people.

Austria has also made it mandatory.

With the worldwide shortage, how are people supposed to get them? A simple piece of clothing is not going to protect you or prevent you from spreading germs. Your hands will do the majority of that. People have fallen for the illusion of being in control of this.

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

olle wrote:

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

There was an interesting figure given by a University of Hong Kong researcher-professor (Professor Yuen Kwok Yung) at an interview yesterday. They tested 200 people who left Wuhan for Hong Kong last month and found that only 5% of them had the antibodies. So herd immunity was apparently unlikely to be the reason why the Wuhan virus abated in Wuhan. It was more likely of a combination of masks, hand hygiene and social distancing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPHGxz2L_IE

Of course, I don't believe the figure is really that low in China. But it is also clear that the situation there is more or less under control, otherwise we will be seeing a lot more dead bodies.

Wuhan was in total lockdown with people barred from getting out of their buildings for 2 months !

More highlights from the Trumpian Faith Based Death Cult;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL3yGbYoxhA

Nice eh? 79 year old public health expert giving sound advice to save the very lives of those wanting him either out of the way because he shows up Trump by merely stating words that make sense and not picking fights with reporters who ask pertinent, even softball questions, like his boss does.
Or as reported here, want him dead.

FLA Governor/faith based crooked fool, might have instituted some limits to gatherings, unless a faith based one, which are exempt.
(So presumably those big for profit mega ones can still open?)

Other GOP run states, mostly notably the Plains and South, either have little or no controls in place.
Given that NY had the same number of cases, around 300, two weeks ago that are showing up in some of these states, that such a time lag between the initial, worst affected areas to the rest of the country, has been a feature of this virus everywhere. While it's true more heavily populated major urban centers will always be hit first and hardest, there will be more people older, with underlying health conditions in these states where the cases are lower but climbing.

So all the Trumpists, those who think (following his lead) that it is exaggerated or a 'Democrat/Deep State/Liberal Media' hoax to undermine the one true leader, or think like a certain foolish and selfish poster on here that it someone must not affect him, the rest of the world is not saying, it's showing, you've got some coming.

olle wrote:

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

Since people seem pleased to do whatever the government tells them these days, I'd say putting everyone on hydroxychloroquine would be the best solution unless they have a condition that prevents them from taking it. Whatever should happen from side effects, it can't be any worse than the virus.

TTailedTiger wrote:

...
You might have a point if I was being partisan. I said the Republican mayors and governors should be held accountable as well. They're all tyrants who keep extending the lockdowns. And none of you have answered my question of what woud stop them from making it permanent.

Don't worry, fix is easy. Instead of government recommending to cover nose and mouth(no masks will be harmed in the process), privately owned stores will impose the rule, No cover no sale.

I am sure you will happy because it is just like a privately owned business asking women employees not to take birth control(based on personal beliefs of the business owner), me asking my employees to eat only vegetarian food (my personal belief) or some privately owned baker not selling a wedding cake to whoever not knowing how the cake will be abused.

Dem governors are testing more and maybe making too much noise, Rep Governors are not testing, very quiet. This is nothing but distortion. Let us see who comes out a winner.

TTailedTiger wrote:

olle wrote:

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

Since people seem pleased to do whatever the government tells them these days, I'd say putting everyone on hydroxychloroquine would be the best solution unless they have a condition that prevents them from taking it. Whatever should happen from side effects, it can't be any worse than the virus.

You may want to compare the contraindications list with what makes you a high mortality risk from Covid-19.

So, if that stuff works to combat the symptoms of covid 19 prophylacticly, you create people with mild or no symptoms... perfect to kill off the risk group!

Plus a bunch of people may come out the other side blind...

And it's funny how someone complaining about social distancing measures enforced would want some mandatory pill taking with the associated side effects...

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

TTailedTiger wrote:

olle wrote:

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

Since people seem pleased to do whatever the government tells them these days, I'd say putting everyone on hydroxychloroquine would be the best solution unless they have a condition that prevents them from taking it. Whatever should happen from side effects, it can't be any worse than the virus.

You may want to compare the contraindications list with what makes you a high mortality risk from Covid-19.

So, if that stuff works to combat the symptoms of covid 19 prophylacticly, you create people with mild or no symptoms... perfect to kill off the risk group!

Plus a bunch of people may come out the other side blind...

And it's funny how someone complaining about social distancing measures enforced would want some mandatory pill taking with the associated side effects...

Best regards
Thomas

There would be no way to force people to take it. Just provide it to them. Those who feel they are in a good position to benefit from it will take it.

TTailedTiger wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

TTailedTiger wrote:

Since people seem pleased to do whatever the government tells them these days, I'd say putting everyone on hydroxychloroquine would be the best solution unless they have a condition that prevents them from taking it. Whatever should happen from side effects, it can't be any worse than the virus.

You may want to compare the contraindications list with what makes you a high mortality risk from Covid-19.

So, if that stuff works to combat the symptoms of covid 19 prophylacticly, you create people with mild or no symptoms... perfect to kill off the risk group!

Plus a bunch of people may come out the other side blind...

And it's funny how someone complaining about social distancing measures enforced would want some mandatory pill taking with the associated side effects...

Best regards
Thomas

There would be no way to force people to take it. Just provide it to them. Those who feel they are in a good position to benefit from it will take it.

Way to ignore most of the Post, especially the bit with risk groups can't take it, and more asymptomatic people would make it more likely to get those killed....

Best regards
Thomas

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... -from-next

Meanwhile, in Singapore, which had been one of the place that is more successful against the outbreak, is shutting down many businesses for a month (i.e. only keep essential business open similar to US), along with schools.

The number of cases there is now above 1000, with more and more cases with unknown origin. Yes, things are definitely not bad compare to rest of the world, but the S'pore gov't is taking no chances.

Meanwhile, Japan is definitely now on the edge as the trend of newly confirm cases keep increasing. What used to be 50/day there now became 300+/day. Many of those cases are in clusters, and IMHO, the number of hospital cluster in Japan worries me.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/liveblogs/ ... k-updates/

There is a belief that Japan falsified its numbers as bad if not worse than China, to keep the Olympics on... Now there is no more need to do that...

In Some Cases, COVID-19 May Harm the Brain : https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020040 ... he-brain#1

TTailedTiger wrote:

Aesma wrote:

L410Turbolet wrote:

Social pressure did miracles over here [Czech Rep.]. Someone (definitely not the government) started a campaign #masks4all encouraging people to wear face masks (following government imposed rule to wear masks whenever leaving home under quarantine rules).
The message is simple: "My facemask protects you, your facemask protects me". The response was surprisingly positive from a nation that has been until a month ago deeply divided, often lethargic and not easy to really behind anything positive. It took 2 days for 99+% people to buy into this with people taking own initiative into their hands and self-supplying themselves, friends, relatives, elderly people with makeshift face masks.
These facemasks are far from perfect, but they provide barrier against droplets and they leave professional facemasks to those who professionaly come into contact with Dick people.

Austria has also made it mandatory.

With the worldwide shortage, how are people supposed to get them? A simple piece of clothing is not going to protect you or prevent you from spreading germs. Your hands will do the majority of that. People have fallen for the illusion of being in control of this.

Oooh he callin' POTUS a liar, since he stated yesterday 'in many cases scarves are better than masks due to the thickness of material'. Interesting.

In any case your claim is without scientific basis. Any covering of the nose and mouth can reduce the spread of germs from an infected individual, particularly when stopping expelled droplets that are loaded with virus.

Aesma wrote:

There is a belief that Japan falsified its numbers as bad if not worse than China, to keep the Olympics on... Now there is no more need to do that...

In Some Cases, COVID-19 May Harm the Brain : https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020040 ... he-brain#1

I think it was repeated a few times already here - Japan numbers are low mainly bc they tested nobody for months.

The number of asymptotic and mild cases are definitely much higher than report in Japan.

Ultimately, am I surprise that once they announce the Olympic delay, the number of cases keep going up there? I am not.

Is low dose herd immunity a possibility. Is there such a thing. The mask proponents are claiming this as one of the advantages.

With the latest claim that walking thru breath vapor and just talking may be transmitting the virus, can a DIY mask lower the dosage and help build herd immunity.

Two weeks into lockdown we are still on an upslope. Which may be normal or there are loopholes in the plan. Most of the country is under lockdown. People may be spending less than 30 minutes a week in public places buying essentials. Still, not confident that you didn't pick up a bug.

With the onset of the upcoming allergy and flu season, there will be more people sneezing and coughing.

Aaron747 wrote:

TTailedTiger wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Austria has also made it mandatory.

With the worldwide shortage, how are people supposed to get them? A simple piece of clothing is not going to protect you or prevent you from spreading germs. Your hands will do the majority of that. People have fallen for the illusion of being in control of this.

Oooh he callin' POTUS a liar, since he stated yesterday 'in many cases scarves are better than masks due to the thickness of material'. Interesting.

In any case your claim is without scientific basis. Any covering of the nose and mouth can reduce the spread of germs from an infected individual, particularly when stopping expelled droplets that are loaded with virus.

I'm going on what the CDC says. I'm not wearing a scarf in Florida in April. If people are following social distancing then there is no need. Wash your hands and keep them off your face. Failure to do that is going to get you in the most trouble.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Aesma wrote:

There is a belief that Japan falsified its numbers as bad if not worse than China, to keep the Olympics on... Now there is no more need to do that...

In Some Cases, COVID-19 May Harm the Brain : https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020040 ... he-brain#1

I think it was repeated a few times already here - Japan numbers are low mainly bc they tested nobody for months.

The number of asymptotic and mild cases are definitely much higher than report in Japan.

Ultimately, am I surprise that once they announce the Olympic delay, the number of cases keep going up there? I am not.

They intentionally set the testing criteria far higher than necessary and were testing at only 1/4 of their daily capacity until IOC decided to postpone. Their criteria were ridiculous - nobody in Japan could qualify for testing unless they had already a. run a fever for four or more days and b. presented with pneumonia symptoms

I am reluctant to wear available makeshift masks because no competent authority has been willing to confirm just what good they do. If someone feels like they are going to cough, and you are in a store GO HOME. If someone unmasked starts having a coughing fit, I will abandon my cart and go home. I will follow whatever requirements competent authorities issue. But simply saying wear a silly home made mask seems to me to involve a little magical thinking.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

I am reluctant to wear available makeshift masks because no competent authority has been willing to confirm just what good they do. If someone feels like they are going to cough, and you are in a store GO HOME. If someone unmasked starts having a coughing fit, I will abandon my cart and go home. I will follow whatever requirements competent authorities issue. But simply saying wear a silly home made mask seems to me to involve a little magical thinking.

So you think you’re safer completely unprotected?

PPVRA wrote:

frmrCapCadet wrote:

I am reluctant to wear available makeshift masks because no competent authority has been willing to confirm just what good they do. If someone feels like they are going to cough, and you are in a store GO HOME. If someone unmasked starts having a coughing fit, I will abandon my cart and go home. I will follow whatever requirements competent authorities issue. But simply saying wear a silly home made mask seems to me to involve a little magical thinking.

So you think you’re safer completely unprotected?

I stay protected by exceeding by far the 6 foot rule. Last night we went for our weekly grocery shop - too many cars in the parking lot. If need be I will get up at 5 in the morning and go. On my running days I choose routes where I see only a couple people per mile, and avoid them.

TTailedTiger wrote:

I'm going on what the CDC says. I'm not wearing a scarf in Florida in April. If people are following social distancing then there is no need. Wash your hands and keep them off your face. Failure to do that is going to get you in the most trouble.

Are you saying all these people falling sick because they are not washing hands?

Have you ever measured six feet? Try maintaining six feet shopping in a store.

WHO/CDC at best are winging it, or at worst giving wrong advice to keep stock for health care pros.

This is actually bad because proper advice would reduce public exposure, fewer people will fall sick, fewer will be hospitalized and wouldn't sneeze, cough or throw up on healthcare workers in a hospital setting. Less number of PPEs required.

See how a dumb DIY mask would save a precious PPE.

dtw2hyd wrote:

TTailedTiger wrote:

I'm going on what the CDC says. I'm not wearing a scarf in Florida in April. If people are following social distancing then there is no need. Wash your hands and keep them off your face. Failure to do that is going to get you in the most trouble.

Are you saying all these people falling sick because they are not washing hands?

Have you ever measured six feet? Try maintaining six feet shopping in a store.

WHO/CDC at best are winging it, or at worst giving wrong advice to keep stock for health care pros.

This is actually bad because proper advice would reduce public exposure, fewer people will fall sick, fewer will be hospitalized and wouldn't sneeze, cough or throw up on healthcare workers in a hospital setting. Less number of PPEs required.

See how a dumb DIY mask would save a precious PPE.

I've had no issue at all keeping at least 25 ft away from people in stores, bank, etc. If you choose to live a in very densely populated place like NYC then that's on you. For years many "enlightened" people claimed that mass housing and public transportation in the cities were the "socially responsible" way to live. We see how well that worked out...

frmrCapCadet wrote:

PPVRA wrote:

frmrCapCadet wrote:

I am reluctant to wear available makeshift masks because no competent authority has been willing to confirm just what good they do. If someone feels like they are going to cough, and you are in a store GO HOME. If someone unmasked starts having a coughing fit, I will abandon my cart and go home. I will follow whatever requirements competent authorities issue. But simply saying wear a silly home made mask seems to me to involve a little magical thinking.

So you think you’re safer completely unprotected?

I stay protected by exceeding by far the 6 foot rule. Last night we went for our weekly grocery shop - too many cars in the parking lot. If need be I will get up at 5 in the morning and go. On my running days I choose routes where I see only a couple people per mile, and avoid them.

Keep doing the same thing and add a homemade mask to the mix. Even better.

Again the mask is to protect others.

Aesma wrote:

Again the mask is to protect others.

I keep hearing that, but FFP2 & FFP3 masks do protect the holder. It's why they use them and need them so dearly in hospitals.

https://www.infectiologie.com/UserFiles ... AT-eb-.pdf

frmrCapCadet wrote:

I am reluctant to wear available makeshift masks because no competent authority has been willing to confirm just what good they do. If someone feels like they are going to cough, and you are in a store GO HOME. If someone unmasked starts having a coughing fit, I will abandon my cart and go home. I will follow whatever requirements competent authorities issue. But simply saying wear a silly home made mask seems to me to involve a little magical thinking.

It has been easily proven that everybody wearing a mask is the solution (South Korea, Hong Kong ...), event if we don't like it in Western countries.

N757ST wrote:

olle wrote:

NY state must today be considered the new centre of this sickness.

1000 dead in 24 hours on 20 million people equals 2500 dead per day in spain with 47 million.

Sweden by the way declared 59 dead for 10 million equals close 300 in spain.

Your numbers are way off and borderline dishonest. 300 people died in NY state, the vast majority of which were in New York City, a city of nearly 9 million. I could be wrong, but aren’t most of Spain’s infections in the Madrid area? That city is half the size of NYC. Yes, NYC is hard hit and it’ll get worse, but your stats are creating a false equivalency that NYC is impacted worse then Europe.

Sorry for reading the wrong numbers;

Today figure is in new york 562 dead, 20 million citizen equals 1321 in spain and their population.

Today number of Sweden 51 dead, 10 million citizen equals 240 in spain.

Spain had yesterday 950 death.

I would say that NY is today the worse area of the world if we can compare regions.

olle wrote:

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

If you have people in lockdown past June/July 2020 you are going to have more problems than simply COVID 19.
People can only take so much isolation before the mental health issues kick in, increases suicides will happen and eventually people simply ignore the orders, you are seeing this already in places like Italy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-end.html

In reality the social distancing is to slow the spread enough so that the healthcare system will be able to cope with the cases it gets over time reducing mortality. I know for myself with anxiety issues I need be around other people to balance that out. Prolonged Isolation to someone like myself is a fate worth than death and I am not kidding about that or being dramatic.
I can take this for maybe a few months at max but if this goes on for a 6-12 months which I have read could be possible then there will be massive social problems and unrest.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-end.html

TTailedTiger wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

TTailedTiger wrote:

With the worldwide shortage, how are people supposed to get them? A simple piece of clothing is not going to protect you or prevent you from spreading germs. Your hands will do the majority of that. People have fallen for the illusion of being in control of this.

Oooh he callin' POTUS a liar, since he stated yesterday 'in many cases scarves are better than masks due to the thickness of material'. Interesting.

In any case your claim is without scientific basis. Any covering of the nose and mouth can reduce the spread of germs from an infected individual, particularly when stopping expelled droplets that are loaded with virus.

I'm going on what the CDC says. I'm not wearing a scarf in Florida in April. If people are following social distancing then there is no need. Wash your hands and keep them off your face. Failure to do that is going to get you in the most trouble.

So there is evidence that even simply speaking and breathing can pass this virus on combined with the long incubation time masks might be put in place for civilian use for some time.

Furthermore there are many climates in Asia that are similar to that of Florida and masks are worn everywhere. Examples being Hong Kong, Taiwan, Southern China, Singapore etc. all tropical and subtropical climates at similar latitudes to Florida and they do it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/a ... index.html

New ad out from Republicans For Rule of Law regarding the administration’s COVID-19 response:

https://youtu.be/s2QLxGAlu18

TTailedTiger wrote:

I've had no issue at all keeping at least 25 ft away from people in stores, bank, etc. If you choose to live a in very densely populated place like NYC then that's on you. For years many "enlightened" people claimed that mass housing and public transportation in the cities were the "socially responsible" way to live. We see how well that worked out...

Just came back from a essential shopping trip.

First of all it should not feel like I drafted myself to get grocers. Second I should not feel like a war veteran after returning from grocery shopping.

If you don't want to protect yourself, your choice.

I am worried with the initial stupidity of WHO/CDC this will turn into a PRC/CCP social engineering campaign, knowing American psyche to go freestyle. Even if CDC changes its guidelines, with enough social engineering most people will not wear any protection and continue to spread the infection. Perfect game plan for any country.

Dr. Fauci is a bad guy?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/tech ... arget.html

The torrent of falsehoods aimed at discrediting Dr. Fauci is another example of the hyperpartisan information flow that has driven a wedge into the way Americans think.

Tugg

StarAC17 wrote:

olle wrote:

With the ease of restrictions in China seems to make the Corona coming back can we assume that we need the countries to stay in lockdown until there is a vaccine?

If yes can we assume that a vaccine will arrive in 12-18 month time in enough quantities, shall the world be in lockdown until june 2021? Will this lead to economical crisis similar to 1930s?

If you have people in lockdown past June/July 2020 you are going to have more problems than simply COVID 19.
People can only take so much isolation before the mental health issues kick in, increases suicides will happen and eventually people simply ignore the orders, you are seeing this already in places like Italy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-end.html

In reality the social distancing is to slow the spread enough so that the healthcare system will be able to cope with the cases it gets over time reducing mortality. I know for myself with anxiety issues I need be around other people to balance that out. Prolonged Isolation to someone like myself is a fate worth than death and I am not kidding about that or being dramatic.
I can take this for maybe a few months at max but if this goes on for a 6-12 months which I have read could be possible then there will be massive social problems and unrest.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-end.html

TTailedTiger wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Oooh he callin' POTUS a liar, since he stated yesterday 'in many cases scarves are better than masks due to the thickness of material'. Interesting.

In any case your claim is without scientific basis. Any covering of the nose and mouth can reduce the spread of germs from an infected individual, particularly when stopping expelled droplets that are loaded with virus.

I'm going on what the CDC says. I'm not wearing a scarf in Florida in April. If people are following social distancing then there is no need. Wash your hands and keep them off your face. Failure to do that is going to get you in the most trouble.

So there is evidence that even simply speaking and breathing can pass this virus on combined with the long incubation time masks might be put in place for civilian use for some time.

Furthermore there are many climates in Asia that are similar to that of Florida and masks are worn everywhere. Examples being Hong Kong, Taiwan, Southern China, Singapore etc. all tropical and subtropical climates at similar latitudes to Florida and they do it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/a ... index.html

Those of us in Hong Kong are quite prepared to wear surgical masks well into the summer (We had some rather warm days last month around 30 degree celsius, you just change masks more often). Most of us in Hong Kong have stocked a large amount of masks (expecting this to last 6-9 months) and due to the weather here we expect to use at least 2 and up to 3 surgical masks per day in the summer.
Of course the Wuhan virus situation has now run wild worldwide (Hong Kong citizens (i.e. mainly protesters) ordered most of our masks and we have also ordered quite a few mask production lines in late January/ early February) and if you don't have any surgical masks on hand it will be hard to use masks in the way we do in Hong Kong. If I am caught in a situation where I have got no surgical masks, I will make a few home made cloth mask. Once I get home I will drop the mask in a 1:99 bleach solution to disinfect it and reuse it later.

As to the suggestion above that you runaway AFTER you hear someone coughing in a supermarket/ on the metro. I would say it would be too late when you hear someone coughing, it is unlikely that you can outrun the droplets (Hong Kong U's Gabriel Leung is suggesting today that those droplets from coughing and sneezing travels at around 30 meters per second). What I would do (even with my mask and protective eyeglass on) is to walk away and avoid the area if I hear someone cough. I know that my mask and protective eyeglass are not perfect, but at least I have a lower chance of inhaling the droplets.

I'm going to showcase how governments are acting incompetent.
I have about 30 high quality half face and full face reusable masks acquired at a store that is now closed due to a lockdown.
I acquired them knowing that they would be useless sitting on the shelves of a closed store.
I offered them to my local government (Western European country) at purchase cost, by registering them on a government website created for Covid19.
A week later today, I have not received even a single request for these masks while the national media is begging people to not buy masks to keep them for medical workers.

I also offered them to two major hospitals whose doctors came on national TV to implore people to not buy masks as their stashes at hospitals were running out.
I also watch the news footages and see doctors and nurses wearing the respirators the wrong way.

So based on this, it looks like the medical community are scared about getting sick, but at the same time unwiling to take all necessary precautions to protect themselves properly. No wonder that so many of them are getting infected.


I also urge medical professionals and governments to STOP USING FACE SHIELDS.
Face shields do not protect from contaminated airbone particles, the particles just go around the shield to contaminate through the eyes.
Propper goggles, even swimming goggles offer much better protection.
Face shields could be used as additional protection on top of the mask and goggles, to block direct sprays.

I also suggest medical professionals to start using liquid antiseptic scrubbing soap (the one containing iodine) to wash their face after removing the mask but before removing the goggles, even if they used a face shield on top of mask and goggles.

Take it from a guy who has used advanced PPE for over a decade now and has even experienced injury from contaminated PPE.

I am curious as to how the PRC comes up with its daily 'new case' numbers.

Could it be that every day the PRC has a raffle where the prize is a bottle of rice wine? People write down a number between 20 and 80 along with their name, all the bits of paper are put in a container, the contents are shaken up and if the first piece of paper drawn out is yours, your number becomes the official number of new cases of COVID-19 for the day and you also get the bottle of wine?

I can't think of a more reasonable explanation for the PRC daily new case numbers always being between 20 and 80.

Michigan has a new mandate, people tested positive and their close contacts must cover their nose and mouth.

It is the public policy of this state that if an individual described in sections 2 and 3 of this order leaves the home, he or she should wear some form of covering over their nose and mouth, such as a homemade mask, scarf, bandana, or handkerchief, but that supplies of N95 masks and surgical masks should generally be reserved, for now, for health care professionals, first responders (e.g., police officers, fire fighters, paramedics), and other critical workers.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

dtw2hyd wrote:

Michigan has a new mandate, people tested positive and their close contacts must cover their nose and mouth.

It is the public policy of this state that if an individual described in sections 2 and 3 of this order leaves the home, he or she should wear some form of covering over their nose and mouth, such as a homemade mask, scarf, bandana, or handkerchief, but that supplies of N95 masks and surgical masks should generally be reserved, for now, for health care professionals, first responders (e.g., police officers, fire fighters, paramedics), and other critical workers.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

Is Michigan not requiring that anyone with a positive test be in self isolation for 14 days and not be out at all for any reason at all?

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Let's hope the same does not apply to the USA releasing the virus in Wuhan, that rumour is also being repeated a lot.

Repeated "a lot" ? Then you need to find a better source for your news!
In my world it was mentioned a handful of times only, a week or so back, along with clear indications it was just mud-stirring by the Chinese, and since then I've heard NOTHING.
Are you perhaps relying too much on Chinese (or possibly Russian) news sources? I can't think of anyone else still carrying this story.
p.s. "rumour"? You are the second one today displaying curious spellings. Wot is occurring here?

Since China is state controlled, if they report it and continue to do so that makes it official right? As for relying on it, the BBC and most other media houses who continue to bombard us about numbers from China which they know are false, say they don't trust but continue to use is what, people need to be in fear of this virus so the ends justify the means?

As to why some push to have the name change I don't think its because they think people are being racist, it's just that China when offended scares people while other countries regardless of how large they are do not scare us.

As for the spelling, its the result of an English education system while now living in an American environment.

So this is escalating quickly.

Below images may be disturbing.



Bodies are being left in the streets in an overwhelmed Ecuadorian city

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/amer ... index.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P637eJG ... 5qPaseAPxq

res speed of cough droplets: that 90(?) meters per second is likely velocity at the mouth, and speed likely reduces on some sort of logarithmic curve. The virus is tricky, it is not mighty mouse or maliciously evilly mobile - reality is bad enough, without exaggeration. If someone nearby coughs get away even if you have a mask on - you don't want to be near the 2nd, 3rd etc coughs.

StarAC17 wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Michigan has a new mandate, people tested positive and their close contacts must cover their nose and mouth.

It is the public policy of this state that if an individual described in sections 2 and 3 of this order leaves the home, he or she should wear some form of covering over their nose and mouth, such as a homemade mask, scarf, bandana, or handkerchief, but that supplies of N95 masks and surgical masks should generally be reserved, for now, for health care professionals, first responders (e.g., police officers, fire fighters, paramedics), and other critical workers.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

Is Michigan not requiring that anyone with a positive test be in self isolation for 14 days and not be out at all for any reason at all?

Excellent question. I don't know the answer. Me thinks, those who live alone have no option unless they are allowed to admit in a hospital.

France not transparent about real death toll: only hospitals deaths are being counted, while a tragedy is happening in many nursing homes.



As coronavirus creeps into French care homes, a 'tsunami' of deaths go unnumbered

Deaths uncounted

“The tsunami has entered the building, it’s a disaster,” says Pierre Gouabault, a care home director, describing the catastrophe underway at one nursing home in the central Loire valley, where ten people have died in recent days and 19 others present symptoms.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200403-as ... unnumbered

A decent article on the face mask question and issue:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ks/609235/

The mask debate is so intense because both the stakes and the uncertainty levels are so high. “We’re trying to build the plane while we’re flying it,” Hanage said. “We’re having to make decisions with quite massive consequences in the absence of secure data. It’s a nightmare for your average cautious public-health professional.”

Tugg

Trump now appears intent to further destroy the US economic outlook by damaging our ability to sell abroad.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-exports

America first baby!
(Hey my house is on fire why is no one coming to help? Oh that's right I built myself damn you, no one else helped, I don't need anyone else. Idiot.)

Tugg

Waterbomber2 wrote:

France not transparent about real death toll: only hospitals deaths are being counted, while a tragedy is happening in many nursing homes.



As coronavirus creeps into French care homes, a 'tsunami' of deaths go unnumbered

Deaths uncounted

“The tsunami has entered the building, it’s a disaster,” says Pierre Gouabault, a care home director, describing the catastrophe underway at one nursing home in the central Loire valley, where ten people have died in recent days and 19 others present symptoms.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200403-as ... unnumbered

This goes for many countries. The numbers on worldometers often are those who tested postive and passed away in the hospital.
In Belgium, we are counting everybody, including the ones in the nursing homes that weren't tested. Or that's the explanation we're getting for our mortality rate being higher than in many other countries. And since we don't really have a govenment and the crisis is being managed by scientists, I believe what they're saying.

Overall, I think my country is handling the situation very well. I think a vast majority of the population shares that feeling. I very much appreciate our politicians for humbly following the scientist's advice. We're nearing the peak of the curve and capacity in hospitals is at a bit over 50%. It's very much looking like we've managed to flatten the curve right in time. This while we're in semi-lockdown (3 weeks now) and not wearing masks when going out. Really hoping if we'll see numbers going down over the next week. Especially the numbers of people being hospitalized. Infections will probably not drop so fast because we're seriously increasing the number of tests.

And then, the exit strategy. I really wonder if they're going to try to aim for zero infections, or loosen the measures bit by bit and try to balance on the line where the hospitals can cope with it...

Tugger wrote:

Trump now appears intent to further destroy the US economic outlook by damaging our ability to sell abroad.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-exports

America first baby!
(Hey my house is on fire why is no one coming to help? Oh that's right I built myself damn you, no one else helped, I don't need anyone else. Idiot.)

Tugg

So you will agree that selling ventilators right now to foreign countries whilst the country has a lack of ventilators a good thing?

Tugger wrote:

Trump now appears intent to further destroy the US economic outlook by damaging our ability to sell abroad.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-exports

America first baby!
(Hey my house is on fire why is no one coming to help? Oh that's right I built myself damn you, no one else helped, I don't need anyone else. Idiot.)

Tugg

Really, China and India stopped exports of medical equipment months back. You are complaining about three DPA actions after these companies refused to supply at a fair price.

MI Governor said, suppliers are cancelling signed orders if they find another buyer with higher price.

3M apparently exported Millions of N95 masks from USA since January.

Like I posted in the past, most of the medical equipment is designed and developed with US Tax payer dollars and produced in China.
These are not toasters and no need to make them outside of the USA.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

So you will agree that selling ventilators right now to foreign countries whilst the country has a lack of ventilators a good thing?

dtw2hyd wrote:

Really, China and India stopped exports of medical equipment months back. You are complaining about three DPA actions after these companies refused to supply at a fair price.

MI Governor said, suppliers are cancelling signed orders if they find another buyer with higher price.

3M apparently exported Millions of N95 masks from USA since January.

Like I posted in the past, most of the medical equipment is designed and developed with US Tax payer dollars and produced in China.
These are not toasters and no need to make them outside of the USA.

I don't believe either of you are properly aware of the situation. 3M in particular does regional production. And each regional production facility produces for that entire region. The situate facilities where they are closer to their customers. They work hard at managing capacity and deliveries against orders to ensure priorities are met and fairly applied.

In this situation, you are calling to abandon nations in need of the same critical equipment (and I guess also supporting not planning and instead leveraging off other customers planning ahead and placing orders earlier?). You are advocating what many conservatives hate about government: confiscating other peoples goods. Redistribution of assets.

And regarding

dtw2hyd wrote:

MI Governor said, suppliers are cancelling signed orders if they find another buyer with higher price.

It is actually the US federal goverenment that is beating out the states on orders.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

So you will agree that selling ventilators right now to foreign countries whilst the country has a lack of ventilators a good thing?

dtw2hyd wrote:

Really, China and India stopped exports of medical equipment months back. You are complaining about three DPA actions after these companies refused to supply at a fair price.

MI Governor said, suppliers are cancelling signed orders if they find another buyer with higher price.

3M apparently exported Millions of N95 masks from USA since January.

Like I posted in the past, most of the medical equipment is designed and developed with US Tax payer dollars and produced in China.
These are not toasters and no need to make them outside of the USA.

I don't believe either of you are properly aware of the situation. 3M in particular does regional production. And each regional production facility produces for that entire region. The situate facilities where they are closer to their customers. They work hard at managing capacity and deliveries against orders to ensure priorities are met and fairly applied.

In this situation, you are calling to abandon nations in need of the same critical equipment (and I guess also supporting not planning and instead leveraging off other customers planning ahead and placing orders earlier?). You are advocating what many conservatives hate about government: confiscating other peoples goods. Redistribution of assets.

And regarding

dtw2hyd wrote:

MI Governor said, suppliers are cancelling signed orders if they find another buyer with higher price.

It is actually the US federal goverenment that is beating out the states on orders.

Tugg

All I will say is, US right now is disorganized and the response is still all over the place. But hey, let's just send stuff to everyone else even though US doesn't have enough supplies themselves.

Seriously, you can criticized Trump on many things, this is NOT one. Many countries have banned exports of medical supplies by now, why should US be different?