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bennett123
Posts: 10112
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:35 pm

Doubtless someone can be found whose views chime with the President's.

Do you really want another 'yes' man.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4429
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:38 pm

I think states and medical centers are still in a situation where they have to bid against one another to get supplies. This is total incompetence.

The federal government should have in January federalized manufacturing and distribution of masks, gowns, ventilators, essential drugs etc. By this, if my terminology is correct, I do not mean nationalizing, I mean appropriate controls in increasing production, price controls, positioning and allocating supplies. It is this sort of thing that government can be good at. Current US government isn't. In addition the state departments should have been in talks with the rest of the world and ensuring world wide supplies. This does not mean 'America Last', simply that wherever, whenever, and however our various trading nations know what is going on, and what can be done, and what cannot be done in cooperation. No surprises.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
yonahleung
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:55 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:15 pm

cjg225 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The situation with 3M mask production in the US isn't black and white, and other countries have done similar things.

However it seems only US citizens are doing such things : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995

The president of the French Côte d'Azur region said that Americans went as far as bringing cash on the tarmac of a Chinese airport to steal away an order for masks he had made !

Only US citizens.

LOL

This is happening EVERYWHERE with EVERYONE. The PPE market is total chaos right now. I'm on daily calls every morning discussing PPE acquisition for a Fortune 100 pharmaceutical manufacturer trying to keep our employees on production lines as safe as we can. The reports we're getting from all around the globe, the scams we're seeing, the government and private actions being taken... it's total chaos.

So let's get off the "only Americans suck" bandwagon for a minute here.

As your company obviously will have a continuous need for PPE even after the immediate crisis, it may be a good idea to look into manufacturing PPE inhouse. The cost is not huge (around US$500k for one production line of surgical masks) and that offers a huge amount of security for your production lines.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1204
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:21 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Spanish influenza? Totally irrelevant. We are in a completely different league now in terms of medical knowledge, analytics, and treatment options. Not the same league, much less ballpark.

As for your 'best solution' - we already know what is needed for that. Aggressive testing, contact tracing, and an antibody serology test that can establish who is immune and/or not contagious, so we can track that systematically and have an idea of true dimensions. The antibody tests are making great progress, but with 10-15 states still refusing to implement distancing, to say nothing of improving their testing capacity and tracing abilities, they will time-delay themselves into the same place other states are now. The results are showing more slowly for them because of lower population density, but the problems will come. May is a fantasy in that scenario - they need to get their act together yesterday.


Dr. Fauci and others are great experts at what they do, but the 'inconvenience' comment clearly demonstrates that he knows nothing about the other crisis being created because of corona-virus and the implications of having him and others set government policy.


Whoa whoa - that is SOP for this WH, downplaying pain and hardship. He is toeing the line with the rest of them - hardly any spoken sympathy for those who have died, much less those losing jobs. Perhaps you already forgot about the Treasury Secretary telling CNBC that unemployment is not a ‘relevant’ figure to talk about because checks are coming.

Unless you have spoken to him about it personally, how can you actually attest to what Fauci knows about the extent of economic hardship based on one flippant comment so like all the others in his midst?


It seems to me that Fauci hasn't addressed to the nation the many times he has spoken about the way forward. He has spent most of his time talking about the projections. The projections are flawed because they are based in flawed and unrealistic data and only the projections of deaths have been more or less accurate, but the projections of hospitalizations and ICU usage have been extremely off thus far.

All I see is economic devastation more than anything else in this country, and yet there is no talk about moving forward and getting back to work.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
LOT767301ER
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Dr. Fauci and others are great experts at what they do, but the 'inconvenience' comment clearly demonstrates that he knows nothing about the other crisis being created because of corona-virus and the implications of having him and others set government policy.


Whoa whoa - that is SOP for this WH, downplaying pain and hardship. He is toeing the line with the rest of them - hardly any spoken sympathy for those who have died, much less those losing jobs. Perhaps you already forgot about the Treasury Secretary telling CNBC that unemployment is not a ‘relevant’ figure to talk about because checks are coming.

Unless you have spoken to him about it personally, how can you actually attest to what Fauci knows about the extent of economic hardship based on one flippant comment so like all the others in his midst?


It seems to me that Fauci hasn't addressed to the nation the many times he has spoken about the way forward. He has spent most of his time talking about the projections. The projections are flawed because they are based in flawed and unrealistic data and only the projections of deaths have been more or less accurate, but the projections of hospitalizations and ICU usage have been extremely off thus far.

All I see is economic devastation more than anything else in this country, and yet there is no talk about moving forward and getting back to work.


More people need to start talking about this. The whole lockdown situation is based on the IHME model which is so far off on hospitalization and ICU rates its laughable. NY is supposed to be in a surge right now and its nowhere to be found. I believe the NY state data is actually showing a net decrease of hospitalizations today vs yesterday.
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:23 pm

Bizarre result of misinformation in UK: some people have come to believe that 5G masts are somehow involved in spreading the virus (presumably thanks to reading this in social media) and have vandalised the same.

One wonders (at least I do) at the idiocy of people who think (if that is not the wrong word to use) in this way.

A video, allegedly of the blaze in Aigburth, was shared on YouTube and Facebook, claiming a link between the mobile technology and Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52164358
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:43 pm

Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Sure, but hardly any Western countries were taking it seriously at that time. Had he banned the exports at that point, I'm sure he would have been lambasted for depriving other countries then in severe need, that it's racially motivated, etc.

Still requires understanding that there is a crisis coming. And if you are meaning we don't acknowledge one is coming to the USA... then what you are suggesting is to take action to cause a more severe crisis in other countries (doing nothing here, just saying "f*uck you" to others).

Which would be beyond stupid.
In fact it would be just about the stoopidest thing our nation and president could do.

Tugg

No, my point was simply that the same people now raking him over the coals for allowing exports to continue would have then raked him over the coals for banning them. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

scbriml wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
A couple questions for some of the members here who seem to have more of a background in the medical area:
- Originally the idea seemed to be that we're locking down because the virus was already widespread and we want to flatten the curve to essentially pace out infections to not overwhelm the healthcare system, which I get. How does this work though after the couple months in lockdown when public life restarts?

Is the expectation that infections will continue at a lower, more sustainable rate...or are we going to encounter just yet another huge spike?

How would herd immunity come into play in all of this?

I'm just curious because some of the articles I'm reading speculate on 6-8 months of lockdown now, which I just don't believe is at all realistic or even possible.


I have no medical background, but I reply anyway.

The discussion about the longer term strategy handling the covid-19 pandemia has also now started in the media in my home country Denmark.

It is becoming clear to most people and journalists now, that the initial lockdown measures only aim was to control the amount of effected people pr day, and was not the strategy to defeat the disease.
Our government has been very proactive handling this pandemic up to now, and we are now seeing a decline in the number hospitalisations and people in critical condition.
But in the daily press briefings they have aswered very evading to questions about longer term strategy,

So there's dilemma between the economy - the health system - number of fatalities.
Building herd immunity will take a long time, and cost many lives.
Lockdown until a cure/vaccine is ready will destroy the economy.

The world is between a rock and a hard place, and if a cure/vaccine is not found soon the concequences of this pandemic will become very ugly in a few months.

Just imagine the long term impact on the whole entertainment industry, sports, tourism/travel etc...


In the UK the government made it clear that the only reason for lockdown was to slow the spread of the virus to help the health system cope. I don’t see how the virus can be ‘defeated’ until a vaccine is available or until the so-called herd immunity kicks in (I’ve seen estimates that it would require 80% infection for such a contagious virus).

Yes, I haven’t heard clearly from any government as to what their strategy is post-lockdown. My expectation is that there will, unsurprisingly, be a spike or second wave of new infections. It would be interesting to know how things are going in China now they’re starting to come out of lockdown, but we’ll likely never know the true numbers.

Regarding herd immunity and the 80% threshold, I thought a lot of the modeling was already predicting 70% of the population being infected. Wouldn't seem like much of a leap from there to get to 80%.

AeroVega wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Is there any validity to the rumors that the UK's plan A was herd immunity and lock down is an afterthought?


I think that was plan A for many countries. Then the hospitals became overwhelmed and plan A went out the door.

This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.

DL717 wrote:
More people will die of starvation with a 6-8 month lock down, let alone a couple of months, than this virus will kill. At some point, we need to make a decision that yes, people are going to die, but not at the cost of unrecoverable global economic collapse. We’re closer to this than people think we are. Want to try and live through that anyone? The trillion in debt that was just added in the US, likely bought up by China, is useless.

I think we need to start talking about having an economic task force to start interfacing with the current Coronavirus task force. Beyond the next 1-2 months we need start thinking about how to safely begin opening the economy back up. I wholly respect the work being done by the medical community and believe our policies should be based in rational science, but there now needs to be some credible representation at the table to speak for the economy.

Aaron747 wrote:
There’s a better solution that we’re nowhere close to yet because we have a total leadership vacuum. I have contacted my rep and senator and have urged others in my business and relatives to do same.

We need a coordinated suspension of credit and financial obligations, led by the US and western Europe, until things can run normally - both companies and individuals can go much further on their last regular revenue/income without the need to service debt and/or pay regular monthly obligations.

Not doing this en masse is what’s driving job losses and business closures - there is no way for small and medium sized businesses especially to survive unprecedented conditions without these steps. Many consultants are already saying it’s too late, but much more pain can be cushioned if they act soon. One of our folks from KPMG said he can’t understand why this isn’t already on the table since they know we’re not flattening the US curve yet.

Without these steps, government will be scheming up stimulus and printing worthless cash till the cows come home. And it will also be much easier to restart economically with things suspended rather than destroyed.

I just don't see that as at all possible. If it really were just that easy, then any country in economic distress could simply just enact such measures. The trickle-down effect would be worrisome, not to mention that it still does not solve for the fact that many people will eventually have no income to keep food on the table. I would rather the government to just offer temporary 70-80% salary coverage for all jobless.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:23 pm

scbriml wrote:
In the UK the government made it clear that the only reason for lockdown was to slow the spread of the virus to help the health system cope. I don’t see how the virus can be ‘defeated’ until a vaccine is available or until the so-called herd immunity kicks in (I’ve seen estimates that it would require 80% infection for such a contagious virus).

Yes, I haven’t heard clearly from any government as to what their strategy is post-lockdown. My expectation is that there will, unsurprisingly, be a spike or second wave of new infections. It would be interesting to know how things are going in China now they’re starting to come out of lockdown, but we’ll likely never know the true numbers.


The UK government has talked about fragile people locking down for 12 weeks so there is that.

There is no proper enforcement in the country of the current lockdown, however.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
There is no proper enforcement in the country of the current lockdown, however.


On what do you base that conclusion?
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lugie
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:35 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Is there any validity to the rumors that the UK's plan A was herd immunity and lock down is an afterthought?


I think that was plan A for many countries. Then the hospitals became overwhelmed and plan A went out the door.

This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.



Looking at the numbers, I'm not too sure if I would call that plan a good choice (so far).

Comparing Portugal and Sweden (very comparable population, both around 10 million) doesn't make Sweden look too rosy:

Portugal has around 10,500 confirmed cases today, with 266 deaths.
While Sweden only has a bit over 6,400 confirmed cases, they're already at 373 deaths.

That means that in similarly-sized countries, out of which Portugal could have been expected to fare much worse as seen in culturally and demographically similar countries (Spain, Italy), Portugal with its rather harsh lockdown measures currently has a significantly lower fatality rate (~2.5%) than Sweden with its laissez-faire approach aimed at achieving herd immunity (more than twice as high at ~5.8% !!).
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:52 pm

lugie wrote:
Looking at the numbers, I'm not too sure if I would call that plan a good choice (so far).


If herd immunity plan was universal, Italy,Spain and the USA definitely missed some pieces of the puzzle.

There are several possibilities.
1) No mask policy (vs) Mandatory mask policy (Hong Kong, Taiwan, China ..)
2) Stay home stay safe vs Lock down (China/India model, not sure if citizens can be beat up in the west)
3) Targeted testing vs Blanket Testing of clusters (Korea Model)
4) Limited testing vs Mass Testing (German Model)

I actually found video of WHO(Hong Kong) explaining how to properly wear mask, changed its position in the USA
In this video he said "Believe me it works"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdi0o5K9OqE
All posts are just opinions.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:25 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.


On a per capita basis, Sweden has 50% more Covid-19 deaths than America, so it's not looking like such a good strategy.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:47 am

See how your community is moving around differently due to COVID-19

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
BN747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:08 am

PPVRA wrote:
See how your community is moving around differently due to COVID-19

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/



Just walking me dog shows my how my community is behaving.

While walking my dog we encountered a chick with pooch, she wanted her dog to say 'hi' to mine. All all good until she started conversing with her mask on.
I lowered mine and said, I'm sorry we're in a hurry.

WTF, muffle muffle muffle...who can think someone wants to 'muffle muffle muffle' back and forth.

But the lady who walked into Wilshire to escape the Asian couple still wins the trophy.

A neighbor (surgeon) told me that LA County is projected to get bad in the week, thus my mask wearing days have begun.

...and everyone wearing mask 'looking like bank robbers with shifty eyes'...is just f*n weird!
But the bee keeper suit wearing Arab chicks are no longer alone.

Shifty eyes is street norm now.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Derico
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:37 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
lugie wrote:
Looking at the numbers, I'm not too sure if I would call that plan a good choice (so far).


If herd immunity plan was universal, Italy,Spain and the USA definitely missed some pieces of the puzzle.

There are several possibilities.
1) No mask policy (vs) Mandatory mask policy (Hong Kong, Taiwan, China ..)
2) Stay home stay safe vs Lock down (China/India model, not sure if citizens can be beat up in the west)
3) Targeted testing vs Blanket Testing of clusters (Korea Model)
4) Limited testing vs Mass Testing (German Model)

I actually found video of WHO(Hong Kong) explaining how to properly wear mask, changed its position in the USA
In this video he said "Believe me it works"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdi0o5K9OqE


The West was caught completely napping due to poor investment in their healthcare systems for many years, caught in a bubble of arrogance that I could not happen to them, and in a culture of exaggerated individualism and distrust of authorities.

Inadequate health safety net, collective insouciance, and mistrust between citizen and government. Those are not a good recipe to controlling an illness.
Last edited by Derico on Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:43 am

Succinct criticism here from conservative Stephen Hayes, after today’s terrible presser:

The daily coronavirus briefings are often unsettling. The one today was perhaps the most troubling I've seen. POTUS eagerly touting an unproven drug, warning about difficult days ahead and signaling impatience with social distancing that his medical advisers describe as crucial.

https://twitter.com/stephenfhayes/statu ... 81505?s=21
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:55 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Succinct criticism here from conservative Stephen Hayes, after today’s terrible presser:

The daily coronavirus briefings are often unsettling. The one today was perhaps the most troubling I've seen. POTUS eagerly touting an unproven drug, warning about difficult days ahead and signaling impatience with social distancing that his medical advisers describe as crucial.

https://twitter.com/stephenfhayes/statu ... 81505?s=21


He's talking this guy..

trump to spend Sunday watching pastor who thinks he has a ‘secret weapon’ to stop the COVID-19 pandemic
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/trump- ... -pandemic/

...and you know those dudes whisphered 'how much cash' they'd haul in' into his ear...and the deal was done.
He stepped on tv and singing their tune.

Anyone here don't think trump's beyond cashing in? You know, you need principles and ethics to turn down an offer that you can't refuse.

The sheer thought that any cretin can 'craft words so enticing' in a 5 minute conversation and you got him, you're his new best friend. Just look at the strange people in positions of government with zero experience.

All his talk about cost and savings and governors should solve issues themselves - that's a sales pitch folks, he's setting up shop on the back channels to cash in on as much as possible.

The minds of these grifters is a bottomless pit...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:58 am

scbriml wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.


On a per capita basis, Sweden has 50% more Covid-19 deaths than America, so it's not looking like such a good strategy.


Sweden has 37 deaths per million inhabitants while Portugal has 26 per million inhabitants. Still very low numbers.
However, Italy and Spain are 10 times that at about 255 per million.

Just looking at these four cases, you wonder if an extreme lock down is doing much, if any.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:00 am

This has become the most useless thread on Coronavirus I've ever come across. And I include the comment sections under certain tabloid newspapers.

It's just political bickering back and forth. Trying to trigger each other. Every single post is attacked by either side. It's just sad.
 
lowwkjax
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:55 am

Dieuwer wrote:
scbriml wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.


On a per capita basis, Sweden has 50% more Covid-19 deaths than America, so it's not looking like such a good strategy.


Sweden has 37 deaths per million inhabitants while Portugal has 26 per million inhabitants. Still very low numbers.
However, Italy and Spain are 10 times that at about 255 per million.

Just looking at these four cases, you wonder if an extreme lock down is doing much, if any.


The lockdowns have only been in effect for so long, results will start to show this week and numbers look promising. Not saying that 10,000 deaths looks promising, but number of new infections. Keep in mind, people dying today are the ones who have been infected 3-4 WEEKS ago. Infection - up to 14 days until symptoms show - another 14 days until disease gets so bad that you need to be hospitalized - and so on. Sweden might just be headed for a disaster without knowing it yet.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 am

Dieuwer wrote:
scbriml wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.


On a per capita basis, Sweden has 50% more Covid-19 deaths than America, so it's not looking like such a good strategy.


Sweden has 37 deaths per million inhabitants while Portugal has 26 per million inhabitants. Still very low numbers.
However, Italy and Spain are 10 times that at about 255 per million.

Just looking at these four cases, you wonder if an extreme lock down is doing much, if any.


That's just selective and simplistic reading of data.
Sweden's and Portugal's numbers are relatively "low", only because you chose to compare them against Italy and Spain... countries with course of epidemic everyone wants to avoid.

You also need to include in the equation the NUMBER OF TESTS performed per million to get a better picture.
I picked countries with roughly 10 million inhabitants to use a same size sample:

Portugal does more than TWICE as many test per million as Sweden yet their death rate is considerably lower, 26 vs. 37
Israel tests FOUR times more per million than Sweden, thus has 30% more reported cases yet their death rate is only 5 per million vs. Sweden's 37.
Czech Republic tests roughly the SAME amount of tests per million as Portugal, yet the number of cases is more than 50% lower and current death rate stands at 6 vs. 26.

Countries also implemented their restrictive measures at different speed:
https://www.politico.eu/article/europes ... -compared/
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:34 am

Japanese politicians still in denial, while the Tokyo Governor Koike is asking to "quickly make their conclusions" about calling the state of emergency which can trigger and allow to enforce limits to peoples' freedoms.

https://www.news24.jp/sp/articles/2020/ ... 0#cxrecs_s

PM Abe in parliament: the situation is Changing every instant, but at present, we are not in a state to require the state of emergency.
Opposition parties are asking to not call it sooner than necessary.

https://www.news24.jp/sp/articles/2020/ ... l#cxrecs_s

The intensive care association of Japan saying that the Japanese medical system is at risk of collapse, as it has less than half of Italy's ICU capacity per capita.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/202004 ... 51000.html


Yesterday, for the first time, the demand for dedicated beds for Covid18 patients has exceeded the supply in 4 regions:

Tokyo: 817 patients / 750 beds available.
Occupancy 108.9%

Kanagawa: 143 patients / 74 beds available. Occupancy 193.2%

Kyoto: 73 patients / 38 beds available
Occupancy 192.1%

Gifu: 37 patients / 30 beds available
Occupancy: 123.3%

Other regions are inching closer to desperation:

Fukuoka 94.4%
Ishikawa 95.0%
Chiba: 64.7%
Aichi: 65.5%
Kochi: 81.8%

Source:
https://www.stopcovid19.jp

So it's clear now that Japan is reporting only patients requiring hospitalisation and that the actual numbers are far worse than reported.


Japan is cooked my dear friends.


If you ask me, all politicians botched it. The only ones who deserve some credit for their prompt, decisive, warning and transparent actions are Italy.
Trump and the US are botching it big time, I doubt that Hillary would have done any better, and I doubt that any democratic candidate would do better.
I would be ashamed to cheer for Trump right now and I would shut it if I were a Democrat because it would have been far worse under an even more passive leftist leadership.
A separate thread to talk about Republican vs. Democrat issues would be great.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:43 am

In the meantime, in Russia, they are fighting the healthcare workers trying to do their bit:

Russian doctor arrested after corona alarm: "Russia is not ready for epidemic"

Russian doctor and union leader Anastasia Vasiljeva raises the alarm about the situation in Russia, which she says is absolutely not prepared for an epidemic. She was arrested with a group of colleagues last Thursday, but she continues to voice her criticism. "We are being thwarted."

With 4731 officially registered infections, Russia has a low number of corona infected people. But the peak is yet to come, and hospitals have hardly any means against the virus.

The independent Russian medical union Alliance of Physicians is therefore raising money to buy those funds. The organization has already collected two million rubles (almost 25 million euros) and last Thursday employees wanted to bring masks, protective clothes and disinfectants to a hospital in Novgorod, a city more than seven hundred kilometers northwest of Moscow.

However, the police stopped the column of four cars and arrested the thirteen occupants, including union leader Vasiljeva. They were taken to the police station on charges of violating quarantine, which has now been in effect for many weeks in many Russian regions.

"Everything in order"
Anastasia Vasiljeva
Anastasia Vasiljeva © Facebook / Anastasia Vasiljeva
"Nonsense," Vasileva told the site. "We had all the documents in order." She says that she has been "brutally treated" by the police and was even abused. She was released almost a day later. "The hospital staff did what they could to help us. But what could they do? "The doctor asks rhetorically.

Vasiljeva has become a household name in Russia, because she has been calling for weeks that everywhere in Russian hospitals there are large shortages for the care of corona patients. This has caused bad blood in government circles and in the state-controlled media. They want nothing more than to predict to the people that the situation in Russia is under control of the contamination situation.

And it must be said: Russia took measures against the coronavirus at an early stage, when it still mainly housed China. It already hermetically closed the border with the southern neighbor at the end of January and started testing civilians on a large scale.


Link in Dutch

That is one way of looking like you combating the virus, just swindle the figures and arrest anyone for speaking out :roll:

Russia has one thing going for it: it is large and it's the infrastructure isn't that great, so traveling is much harder than say in. western Europe.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:02 am

In Belgium, 3 weeks into the lockdown, media are turning against politicians and virologists.

"We could literally saw it coming our way, so how could we have missed this so badly"?

Exactly 2 months ago, politicians appealed that
"We are more prepared and equipped to handle this, the situation is under control. We have specialised teams ready to do the contact tracing. We have all the necessary PPE and medical equipments. There is a European coordination for medical supplies. We should be more worried about the seasonal flu. "
However, they seem to have been just empty words.

Newspapers De morgen and Het Laatste Nieuws have very critical articles today denouncing the above.

https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/italie-h ... ~b9d23efc/

https://m.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/reco ... ~a9d23efc/

I expect Belgium to overtake Italy in number of cases per capita by tomorrow or the next few days.
The pro capita daily death toll is near Italy's peak levels.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:01 pm

Everybody felt prepared, what people ignored is the butterfly effect, where small action can have huge effects. If the barkeepers in Ischgl would have gone to the doctor, Austria, Italy, Germany and Switzerland would probably be in a different situation. If the religious meeting in France would have been cancelled, it would have made a huge difference. If the sick couple in Heinsberg Germany would have decided to not go celebrate carnival while feeling sick, Germany would probably have 33% of the number of infected we do have today.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:32 pm

There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:49 pm

The wet markets are open again. I guess things in China are getting back to 'normal'.

China reopens wet markets, watchful guards ensure that no pictures are taken


https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/ ... taken.html
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:55 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21


No information about location - and a couple replies down someone says definitely not the case where they are in NYC. And a little further down, the tinfoil hat parade is in full force. You really want to associate with this?

https://twitter.com/ninaninabonita/stat ... 86561?s=21
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:02 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21


No information about location - and a couple replies down someone says definitely not the case where they are in NYC. And a little further down, the tinfoil hat parade is in full force. You really want to associate with this?

https://twitter.com/ninaninabonita/stat ... 86561?s=21


Coming from a guy who posted a fake picture of a supposedly NYC hospital, are you really questioning his post?

The hospitalization projections are way off, and thats the reason we have crashed this economy and removed millions of jobs overnight, of course people will have to question this.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:13 pm

 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:15 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21


No information about location - and a couple replies down someone says definitely not the case where they are in NYC. And a little further down, the tinfoil hat parade is in full force. You really want to associate with this?

https://twitter.com/ninaninabonita/stat ... 86561?s=21


I’m not associating with that, am I? I just posted a feed with lots of location references. The NYC-based MSM only see and report from a NYC POV, no surprise there. Get info from outside NYC, please. I’m in rural MA and it’s nothing like Boston, let alone NYC.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21


They should question themselves, not public. They should have blown the whistle long before, not now.

Most hospitals are privately owned.

What happened to the argument that universal healthcare causes rationing of services?
Why are we rationing in a supposedly world's best, free market, privately owned, well run, capitalist, personal responsibility model?
All posts are just opinions.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:20 pm

New Zealand's numbers for April 5th:

- 1039 people infected (+89)
- 15 in hospital (+5)
- 3 in Intensive Care Unit (+2)
- 1 death (no change)

So on the face of it things look to be getting under control. Today is a 9% increase in infections compared to yesterday. It was increasing between 30% and 50% each day between the 18th to the 34th. Too early to say for sure but at face value it appears that the aggressive government action early on seems to be paying off.

Breaking down the numbers of those infected:

- largest age group is 20-29 year olds.
- 45% can be directly linked to overseas travel, 39% can't be, the rest is unknown.
- 53-46 female to male percentage.
- 2.9% of tests are positive.

Waterbomber2 wrote:
If we look at the fact that many of us have warned of the impending danger as early as the end of January, the Western governments are equally accountable if not more so.
The Western governments decided to sit on their hands, the USA was the only one who closed their borders to China.


New Zealand did too. And forced all international arrivals into quarantine for two weeks upon arrival (I got caught up in this). Also the first to ban everyone who's not a citizen or permanent resident from entering IIRC.

The glaring omission I noticed early on was when Italy had the complete lockdown of a few provinces & cities but people flying out of Milan weren't being checked when getting back to the UK. One caller to James O'Brien at the time talked about how they and their family flew home to the UK via AMS (I think). They had a health questionnaire or something to fill out in AMS after getting off the plane, but on arrival to the UK (it was either BHX or MAN) there was absolutely noone checking anybody's health upon entry. So that's very slack.

art wrote:
UK is failing to organise a big ramp up in testing. News reports here suggest that while kits themselves are being manufactured there has been a delay in ordering reagents so the kits cannot be used. Beaurocratic delay?

BBC news update: UK Chemical Industries Association is reported as saying that the reagents required are available.


The UK government is more interested in blaming others than addressing the health crisis. How did they think that they wouldn't be found out for the reagents comment?

Waterbomber2 wrote:

France "tips" the food distrubution industry 2000 Euro each through Prime Macron.
This amount is paid out by companies and is exempt from fiscal and social deductions.

https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/coronavi ... 85259.html


Good policy and more strong leadership from Emmi. I think anybody deemed to be an "essential worker" should be guaranteed a living wage at the very least.

Waterbomber2 wrote:
I doubt that money will keep people at work when they see colleagues dropping on the floor right and left. They'd rather stay home with reduced pay than at work with increased pay.


I think most will be fine if they've got the right PPE.

speedking wrote:
As you seem to be dependent of the government in your life,


art wrote:
I don't just seem to be dependent on the government. I am. While I have been licensed to fly, I doubt that a hang glider or a glider or a 172 would really work too well in intercepting a Russian bomber heading for UK airspace. Another problem - I have not built a radar system to detect said potential threat. I think it is a better idea to rely on the dreaded government to do that. Like I rely on my government to light the road I live down, build roads etc


The one silver lining of pandemics is that they completely undermine libertarianism and show it up for the fallacy that it is.

speedking wrote:
who do you think would have been competent to run the US in this crisis?


I'm struggling to think of a single adult I know who would have a worse job than the Orange moron....

lugie wrote:
Exactly, I don't know why people seem so averse to ordering everyone to wear a mask whenever they're out in public.

We need to preserve the N95, N99, FFP2/3 masks for medical professionals but all other masks or methods of covering one's mouth and nose can be made available to the general public


:checkmark: Honestly though, I'm a bit disappointed in my government (and most governments) regarding the supply of them. I thought that we would have learnt from SARS and kept a very large warehouse in a military base somewhere full of them, with detailed plans on how to distribute them to medical professionals and essential workers when the need arises.

The distribution of PPE seems to be an area that most governments haven't got right. I've got loads of masks in a draw in my basement which I bought up years ago. I only use them for shopping though at this stage.

Aaron747 wrote:
We need a coordinated suspension of credit and financial obligations, led by the US and western Europe, until things can run normally - both companies and individuals can go much further on their last regular revenue/income without the need to service debt and/or pay regular monthly obligations.


Italy already has. I think it's a worthwhile point of debate as to what degree of intervention is necessary/appropriate. I'm sure proactive action could make a big difference to how long a recovery takes I.e. a three year recovery vs a decade recovery. Much more productive than discussions about it being a deep state ploy or the virus being a bio weapon, of course.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51814481


Aaron747 wrote:
Not doing this en masse is what’s driving job losses and business closures - there is no way for small and medium sized businesses especially to survive unprecedented conditions without these steps.


Indeed.

bennett123 wrote:
Do you really want another 'yes' man.


That's exactly what they want. Being loyal is far more important than being right.

One thing I love about Donald is the way he "unmans" his loyal supporters all the time by forcing them to defend contradictory and otherwise indefensible actions. Here is the perfect example where he spent months minimising the dangers of the virus, saying the us cases will go down before they go up etc they all agree, parrot him loudly then he turns around and says the opposite (200k deaths is good outcome) and his supporters are then forced into mental gymnastics to square the circle whilst pretending that he's a genius. :lol:

It's beautiful, really. Latest example is the defence production act where MAGA Morons spent days proclaiming how forcing a private business to produce masks/ventilators is communism and would make America become Venezuela but then have to turn around and proclaim Donald's brilliance when he finally does invoke it. What a time to be alive!

https://youtu.be/NAh4uS4f78o


GDB wrote:
More highlights from the Trumpian Faith Based Death Cult;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL3yGbYoxhA

Nice eh? 79 year old public health expert giving sound advice to save the very lives of those wanting him either out of the way because he shows up Trump by merely stating words that make sense and not picking fights with reporters who ask pertinent, even softball questions, like his boss does.
Or as reported here, want him dead.


Another chapter in the war on science. Yet the far right claims that the Leftists are the violent ones. :roll:

DL717 wrote:
At some point, we need to make a decision that yes, people are going to die, but not at the cost of unrecoverable global economic collapse.


Unrecoverable? Really?


PPVRA wrote:
See how your community is moving around differently due to COVID-19

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/


That's absolutely fascinating, thanks for the link. Very interesting looking at similarities between countries.

BN747 wrote:
Just walking me dog shows my how my community is behaving.


I'm also finding different behaviours fascinating on my morning runs. Interesting how some people will cross the road a long time before you get close to them inorder maintain the distance whilst some joggers will just come up behind you and jump past without bothering. All park benches/seating has been closed here which seems like a bit of an overreaction.

Went for a 10k run yesterday morning - only saw three cars which was rather eerie.

Derico wrote:
The West was caught completely napping due to poor investment in their healthcare systems for many years, caught in a bubble of arrogance that I could not happen to them, and in a culture of exaggerated individualism and distrust of authorities.


You're making an awfully wide generalisation there mate.

Aaron747 wrote:
Succinct criticism here from conservative Stephen Hayes, after today’s terrible presser:

The daily coronavirus briefings are often unsettling. The one today was perhaps the most troubling I've seen. POTUS eagerly touting an unproven drug, warning about difficult days ahead and signaling impatience with social distancing that his medical advisers describe as crucial.

https://twitter.com/stephenfhayes/statu ... 81505?s=21


Some of those replies are awfully painful.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21


No information about location - and a couple replies down someone says definitely not the case where they are in NYC. And a little further down, the tinfoil hat parade is in full force. You really want to associate with this?

https://twitter.com/ninaninabonita/stat ... 86561?s=21


Coming from a guy who posted a fake picture of a supposedly NYC hospital, are you really questioning his post?

The hospitalization projections are way off, and thats the reason we have crashed this economy and removed millions of jobs overnight, of course people will have to question this.


Gotcha! Cute. As I said at the time, it wasn't known at the time of the tweet the picture was false. The tweet above has some obviously crazy conspiracy nuts commenting on it - you'd know that if you simply took a look.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:24 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s a lot of questioning in the medical community on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1 ... 55680?s=21


No information about location - and a couple replies down someone says definitely not the case where they are in NYC. And a little further down, the tinfoil hat parade is in full force. You really want to associate with this?

https://twitter.com/ninaninabonita/stat ... 86561?s=21


I’m not associating with that, am I? I just posted a feed with lots of location references. The NYC-based MSM only see and report from a NYC POV, no surprise there. Get info from outside NYC, please. I’m in rural MA and it’s nothing like Boston, let alone NYC.


I am following a lot of medical professionals all around the country, some with MPH, and some without. Some are clinicians seeing things first hand, and some are academics doing epidemiological research. All of their observations are - as you'd expect - colored in part by their tangible experiences. But aside from media proximity, it's worth noting the issue gets a lot of attention in large cities because that's where most of the economy is, no?
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
Here is the perfect example where he spent months minimising the dangers of the virus, saying the us cases will go down before they go up etc they all agree, parrot him loudly then he turns around and says the opposite (200k deaths is good outcome) and his supporters are then forced into mental gymnastics to square the circle whilst pretending that he's a genius.


'Squaring the circle' is an excellent phrase to sum up the crazy rationalizations that are now normal from WH defenders. I shall use it from now on!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Etika
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:41 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Is there any validity to the rumors that the UK's plan A was herd immunity and lock down is an afterthought?


I think that was plan A for many countries. Then the hospitals became overwhelmed and plan A went out the door.

This is still the plan in Sweden and Iceland IIRC. They have not gone into full lockdown. Will be interesting to see how things transpire.


That might be changing soon at least for Sweden. The government there has sent an urgent proposal for new law that would give it emergency powers to order more stringent actions, up to full lockdown. As a background, the Swedish law includes emergency powers to government only in wartime, so they need this law passed before they can order any further actions.

No matter what they do, this seems awfully late. Even if the law is passed at maximum haste and they implement the actions immediately, it will take few days. And then it takes 10-14 days for actions to be visible in the number of cases due to incubation time. By that time the situation is either turned into a catastrophe or levelled off and easing.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:56 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Japanese politicians still in denial, while the Tokyo Governor Koike is asking to "quickly make their conclusions" about calling the state of emergency which can trigger and allow to enforce limits to peoples' freedoms.

https://www.news24.jp/sp/articles/2020/ ... 0#cxrecs_s

PM Abe in parliament: the situation is Changing every instant, but at present, we are not in a state to require the state of emergency.
Opposition parties are asking to not call it sooner than necessary.

https://www.news24.jp/sp/articles/2020/ ... l#cxrecs_s

The intensive care association of Japan saying that the Japanese medical system is at risk of collapse, as it has less than half of Italy's ICU capacity per capita.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/202004 ... 51000.html


Yesterday, for the first time, the demand for dedicated beds for Covid18 patients has exceeded the supply in 4 regions:

Tokyo: 817 patients / 750 beds available.
Occupancy 108.9%

Kanagawa: 143 patients / 74 beds available. Occupancy 193.2%

Kyoto: 73 patients / 38 beds available
Occupancy 192.1%

Gifu: 37 patients / 30 beds available
Occupancy: 123.3%

Other regions are inching closer to desperation:

Fukuoka 94.4%
Ishikawa 95.0%
Chiba: 64.7%
Aichi: 65.5%
Kochi: 81.8%

Source:
https://www.stopcovid19.jp

So it's clear now that Japan is reporting only patients requiring hospitalisation and that the actual numbers are far worse than reported.


Japan is cooked my dear friends.


If you ask me, all politicians botched it. The only ones who deserve some credit for their prompt, decisive, warning and transparent actions are Italy.
Trump and the US are botching it big time, I doubt that Hillary would have done any better, and I doubt that any democratic candidate would do better.
I would be ashamed to cheer for Trump right now and I would shut it if I were a Democrat because it would have been far worse under an even more passive leftist leadership.
A separate thread to talk about Republican vs. Democrat issues would be great.


For Japan - don't get me started on all those people going to Hanami at places like Ueno Park, or all those Tokyoites doing their best to make sure that places like Tottori or Shimane Prefecture get their first case.

Oh...and retail shut down, but 90% of those salaryman/OL still have to commute to work to crowded office space.

All in the while Japan is now looking like the early days of Italian outbreak.

To make the situation worse, a lot of those new cases are not traceable to anything.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:05 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Japanese politicians still in denial, while the Tokyo Governor Koike is asking to "quickly make their conclusions" about calling the state of emergency which can trigger and allow to enforce limits to peoples' freedoms.

https://www.news24.jp/sp/articles/2020/ ... 0#cxrecs_s

PM Abe in parliament: the situation is Changing every instant, but at present, we are not in a state to require the state of emergency.
Opposition parties are asking to not call it sooner than necessary.

https://www.news24.jp/sp/articles/2020/ ... l#cxrecs_s

The intensive care association of Japan saying that the Japanese medical system is at risk of collapse, as it has less than half of Italy's ICU capacity per capita.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/202004 ... 51000.html


Yesterday, for the first time, the demand for dedicated beds for Covid18 patients has exceeded the supply in 4 regions:

Tokyo: 817 patients / 750 beds available.
Occupancy 108.9%

Kanagawa: 143 patients / 74 beds available. Occupancy 193.2%

Kyoto: 73 patients / 38 beds available
Occupancy 192.1%

Gifu: 37 patients / 30 beds available
Occupancy: 123.3%

Other regions are inching closer to desperation:

Fukuoka 94.4%
Ishikawa 95.0%
Chiba: 64.7%
Aichi: 65.5%
Kochi: 81.8%

Source:
https://www.stopcovid19.jp

So it's clear now that Japan is reporting only patients requiring hospitalisation and that the actual numbers are far worse than reported.


Japan is cooked my dear friends.


If you ask me, all politicians botched it. The only ones who deserve some credit for their prompt, decisive, warning and transparent actions are Italy.
Trump and the US are botching it big time, I doubt that Hillary would have done any better, and I doubt that any democratic candidate would do better.
I would be ashamed to cheer for Trump right now and I would shut it if I were a Democrat because it would have been far worse under an even more passive leftist leadership.
A separate thread to talk about Republican vs. Democrat issues would be great.


For Japan - don't get me started on all those people going to Hanami at places like Ueno Park, or all those Tokyoites doing their best to make sure that places like Tottori or Shimane Prefecture get their first case.

Oh...and retail shut down, but 90% of those salaryman/OL still have to commute to work to crowded office space.

All in the while Japan is now looking like the early days of Italian outbreak.

To make the situation worse, a lot of those new cases are not traceable to anything.


Not to mention that friends in Japan have told me salarymen are taking full advantage of 'coronavirus sales' by delivery health and other sex shops. Who cares if a bunch of trafficked women infect their entire share house?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:16 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Not to mention that friends in Japan have told me salarymen are taking full advantage of 'coronavirus sales' by delivery health and other sex shops. Who cares if a bunch of trafficked women infect their entire share house?


Wow, I was thinking one of the positive effects of COVID19 on society may be the end of human trafficking and release of sex slaves. Pimps cannot keep them for long without clients, they have to let them go. I guess I am wrong.
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Not to mention that friends in Japan have told me salarymen are taking full advantage of 'coronavirus sales' by delivery health and other sex shops. Who cares if a bunch of trafficked women infect their entire share house?


Wow, I was thinking one of the positive effects of COVID19 on society may be the end of human trafficking and release of sex slaves. Pimps cannot keep them for long without clients, they have to let them go. I guess I am wrong.


Not in Japan. Hell will have to freeze over before those middle-aged dudes stop frequenting those places on the regular.
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Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:45 pm

Reports of deaths and huge numbers of infections
among food supply chain workers are cause for concern.

In France, at least 550 grocery store cashiers seem to have been infected so far, of whom 118 confirmed cases and the rest presumed, a few in critical conditions.
Supermarket workers are considered the group second most at risk after health workers.

52 years old Aicha working at Carrefour Saint Denis has died of Covid19.

https://www.nouvelobs.com/coronavirus-d ... virus.html


In Belgium, a 32 years old Colruyt supermarket employee has died of Covid-19, other employees now wondering if the job is worth the risk as many customers do not apply social distancing with discipline and more workers are testing positive.

https://m.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/wink ... ~a6082a18/

https://www.redactie24.be/news/28999/ca ... g-ongerust


As Dr. Birx of the US CDC said, it's unlikely that the curve will go down as fast and steeply as it went up and soon after reaching the flat phase, but we'll likely see a "fat tail", a bit like the aerodynamic shape of a droplet of water (cut in half).
I think that we can expect the curves in hotspots to rise for as long as there isn't air-tight social separation, like the one being applied quite fanatically in Italy and I believe now also in Spain and India.
Social distancing can get it out of the exponential phase, but considering the volatility of this thing and considering that grocery stores will remain primary sources of infections as long as they stay open, it will take quite a bit of fanatism to get out of the proportional phase and get to a flat curve and into the descent.

In countries where there isn't this level of fanatism at an early enough stage, we may see the health care system breaking down, food supply chains coming to a halt, and the executive branches of government becoming powerless, even with social distancing.
At that moment, people will barricade themselves and reach social separation and the virus will be stopped, but the total meltdown of healthcare and surge in criminality will cause other kinds of problems.

"30 days to slow the spread" as applied to the US is too passive, they need a much more stringent "30 days to stop the thread" policy, where staying home is cumpulsory, not a mere recommendation.
I also doubt that the peak will be reached in 6-7 days as cautiously predicted by Dr. Birx with this kind of half measures, although they can probably enter the proportional phase thanks to social distancing.
Italy seems to have gotten out of thr exponential phase and into the proportional phase now, although we will need to see more data to be sure, as it could be that testing has reached a plateau due to technical or policy changes.

Milan is already thinking about what public transportation should look like when services restart:
Hand sanitizer dispensers in every station, minimum 1 meter of distance with floor markings and additional conductors to enforce it, platform access limitations, masks required.

https://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/20 ... 253086384/
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:04 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
In France, at least 550 grocery store cashiers seem to have been infected so far, of whom 118 confirmed cases and the rest presumed, a few in critical conditions.
Supermarket workers are considered the group second most at risk after health workers.


I noticed conditions are not any better here in the States. The delivery/curbside pickup service employees are working without any protection. The folks cleaning after each self-checkout don't even have gloves. Felt really bad.

I completely stopped ordering Amazon Prime. Realized just because I have Prime membership, no need to put people at risk by ordering trivial things.

I ordered curbside pickup couple of times, but looking after their working conditions, I decided to suit up and go in myself.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:19 pm

So as expected Japan is in denial. Did the government at least do something about the PPE and ventilators situation ? Japan has plenty of high tech factories...

Russia : sending "aid" (not that useful it seems, and embedded with spies) to other countries while not having enough for itself. Russians will love this...

Aviation related, but interesting for this thread I feel : Orly airport is now dedicated to medical flights. All terminals are closed, medical tents are pitched on the tarmac, and a flurry of aircraft come pick up patients from the Paris region, to send them were things are calmer in the country. Aircraft seen on various videos doing this include all kinds of civilian and military helicopters, private jets, some Piaggio Avantis, Airbus A400M... pictures in this article (in French) : https://www.sudouest.fr/2020/04/05/orly ... -10861.php
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:24 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
In France, at least 550 grocery store cashiers seem to have been infected so far, of whom 118 confirmed cases and the rest presumed, a few in critical conditions.
Supermarket workers are considered the group second most at risk after health workers.


I noticed conditions are not any better here in the States. The delivery/curbside pickup service employees are working without any protection. The folks cleaning after each self-checkout don't even have gloves. Felt really bad.

I completely stopped ordering Amazon Prime. Realized just because I have Prime membership, no need to put people at risk by ordering trivial things.

I ordered curbside pickup couple of times, but looking after their working conditions, I decided to suit up and go in myself.


Thoughtful post. I am considering delivery service, but the questions you raise must be thought out.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:14 pm

zkojq wrote:
The one silver lining of pandemics is that they completely undermine libertarianism and show it up for the fallacy that it is.

Never minding, of course, that we've seen more movement toward libertarian policies than at any one time in recent history :D : Elimination of FDA red tape to speed development of everything from vaccines to COVID-19 tests to drug therapy testing and trials, elimination of licensing restrictions on where you can practice medicine, loosening of TSA restrictions, etc.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:39 pm

At least one op-Ed is calling for suing the CCP and citing avenues of legal action.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/chi ... 54h5b.html
 
BN747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:57 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Not to mention that friends in Japan have told me salarymen are taking full advantage of 'coronavirus sales' by delivery health and other sex shops. Who cares if a bunch of trafficked women infect their entire share house?


They are not the only ones.

trump has a 'give away' type behavior when he's up to something nefarious like the killing of the Iranian general, the killing of reporter Khashoggi...he always reaches foe distraction..

He creates a setting that requires 'reaction' this his battling with governors, medical professionals and endless obfuscation, that's the indicator that something else is going.
Given that he's known bout this since January or so and the fact that he can't possibly keep his mouth shut..he certainly shared this with others like the stock scamming Senators and the NYSE CEO husband of one of them.

This inefficiency and stalling of supplies and resources (Kushner excuse) is most likely deliberate because he has all the pieces in place to pull off a profit making scam on all of this.
He has yes men/people in HHS and more, fewer eyes watching (1000s of gov't jobs unfulfilled).
No regulation enforcement, etc.. he has the most clever of Mar-a-lago golfing pals guiding him every step of the way, he can't do alone..he's not smart enough,

All his talk of 'savings thousands and making deals and money for America...if you've learned anything over the last 3 years, it's that he looks out for #1...every single second.

The American president is 'profiting from the Coronavirus pandemic in some way unknown to the press (at this time), it's his nature, his m.o....why should he stop now?
trump is the weakest human ever to resist his worst impulses...he is scamming behind the scenes, mark my words.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:54 pm

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... s-symptoms

Boris Johnson hospitalized over coronavirus symptoms
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:56 pm

Aesma wrote:
https://thehill.com/policy/international/491256-boris-johnson-hospitalized-over-coronavirus-symptoms

Boris Johnson hospitalized over coronavirus symptoms


Is he the first world leader to be hospitalized?
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