Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Olddog
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:14 pm

The death rate increase in the US is spectacular.
 
dobilan
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:48 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:18 pm

"US COVID-19 fatalities ( https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america ) project as 60,415 fatalities by August 4, 2020, comparable to 58,200 US military fatalities in the Vietnam War ( ref: https://www.arch ives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics ). Two clusterf&cks of similar proportion, IMO."
- Is there any sense (I'm talking strictly biologically not ethically) in comparing the mortality by combat wounds for selected phisically fit, young individuals versus mortality by disease for elderly and chronically ill persons? That damned epidemic grew political in almost any country. Except maybe China.
 
GDB
Posts: 13762
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:40 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This is so wonderful. Japan is encouraging and paying their manufacturers to leave China. The first of many countries to do this I'm sure.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/ ... 7db96e5341


Wait till Boris gets back form ICU as I have a feeling he will not be nice to China. I’m sure Trump And many more will follow.
Only logical choice.


While I am glad he is getting better, wishing no harm on him and what it would do for his family, 'Boris' (one of his names not his actual forename) has demonstrated in his career in public life that he cannot find his arse from his elbow.
So don't pin your hopes on 'owning' China with him, anymore than you should with Trump.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11632
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:57 pm

Today the number has crossed 100,000 dead worldwide from Covid-19

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3812
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:48 pm

Here in the Seattle area we are having a run of unseaonably nice weather that should last for at least another week. Mixed blessing IMO. Washington State has been doing very well at flattening the curve but with this very nice weather and every going stir crazy, the entire population is out and about and distancing seems to be going out as well. There's a walking/biking trail along the river near my house and it looked the the 405 at rush hour yesterday afternoon. Spoke to my neighbor yesterday and she said she drove past the gardening center/nursery down the road and it was a mob scene. I've avoided such places at all costs, but clearly many are not. I fear we will see a new spike in cases in Washington in a couple weeks' time. I would probably be stoned for even suggesting this to anyone around here, but wish we'd have have a stretch of damp, chilly weather to keep folks inside.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24396
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:32 pm

dobilan wrote:
"US COVID-19 fatalities ( https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america ) project as 60,415 fatalities by August 4, 2020, comparable to 58,200 US military fatalities in the Vietnam War ( ref: https://www.arch ives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics ). Two clusterf&cks of similar proportion, IMO."

Is there any sense (I'm talking strictly biologically not ethically) in comparing the mortality by combat wounds for selected phisically fit, young individuals versus mortality by disease for elderly and chronically ill persons? That damned epidemic grew political in almost any country. Except maybe China.
o
No, they aren't comparable in terms of root cause.

I made the comparison just to give the current projections some sense of scale.

For instance, if you would have told people a year ago a previously unknown virus was going to hit the USA and the number of fatalities would be similar to the number of US military fatalities in the Vietnam War, would they have believed you?

The virus was political in China right from its start in Wuhan: Dr. Li Wenliang was told by police to "stop making false comments" and was investigated for "spreading rumours".

Ref: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51409801
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24396
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:41 pm

ER757 wrote:
Here in the Seattle area we are having a run of unseaonably nice weather that should last for at least another week. Mixed blessing IMO. Washington State has been doing very well at flattening the curve but with this very nice weather and every going stir crazy, the entire population is out and about and distancing seems to be going out as well. There's a walking/biking trail along the river near my house and it looked the the 405 at rush hour yesterday afternoon. Spoke to my neighbor yesterday and she said she drove past the gardening center/nursery down the road and it was a mob scene. I've avoided such places at all costs, but clearly many are not. I fear we will see a new spike in cases in Washington in a couple weeks' time. I would probably be stoned for even suggesting this to anyone around here, but wish we'd have have a stretch of damp, chilly weather to keep folks inside.

Just got back from an hour long walk in cold/damp suburban Southern NH.

These days I avoid going to any place people typically walk (i.e. parks, popular walking/biking trails) and just walk around the suburban neighborhoods. People in small family groups mostly couples were out and about, but most people weren't practicing social distancing too well IMO because it was always me who crossed to the other side of the street to maintain 6 feet of space.

Maybe it's me, but I'd do my best to walk in places where I don't encounter others, or if I do encounter others I can make space quickly like walking across the street.

Earlier in the epidemic I went to a popular park that has walking trails and I kept smelling other people's cologne/perfume and I realized if I could smell their cologne I probably could also be taking in any viruses they had as well.

I realize not everyone lives in suburbia and/or can get in a car and get to some place less densely populated, but we do need to maintain social distancing.

PS: If I were in WA state or anywhere else where recreational weed was legal, I probably would be stoned...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11632
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:56 pm

ER757 wrote:
Here in the Seattle area we are having a run of unseaonably nice weather that should last for at least another week. Mixed blessing IMO. Washington State has been doing very well at flattening the curve but with this very nice weather and every going stir crazy, the entire population is out and about and distancing seems to be going out as well. There's a walking/biking trail along the river near my house and it looked the the 405 at rush hour yesterday afternoon. Spoke to my neighbor yesterday and she said she drove past the gardening center/nursery down the road and it was a mob scene. I've avoided such places at all costs, but clearly many are not. I fear we will see a new spike in cases in Washington in a couple weeks' time. I would probably be stoned for even suggesting this to anyone around here, but wish we'd have have a stretch of damp, chilly weather to keep folks inside.



Having good weather in NC,
today is sunny and 56 after a string of 70+ days.

Got out and went to a local rec area that has lots of trails,greenways, and closed access roads. We all try to avoid each other, but I reckon with a few more nice days this weekend before rain on Sunday night, there will be more mingling.

The good news , is that in my county of 1.1 million, there are only <400 cases.

This is also bad news, as i suspect while the curve has been flattened we will slowly increase at around 10% per day. It seems every week we double . This is with very well practiced social distancing.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5043
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
Today the number has crossed 100,000 dead worldwide from Covid-19

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

That's the official number. The real number is considerably higher. Most countries only count deaths of people who tested positive and died at the hospital. Deaths at home or at nursing homes are not counted by many countries, often because those people weren't tested. New York State officials have stated they believe about 200 daily Covid deaths go unreported in NY State alone simply from people dying at home.
Belgium is one of few countries that reports both tested AND suspected Covid deaths, both in hospitals and outside hospitals. Their numbers show that only about half the deaths happen at the hospitals, so the number of deaths for many other countries need to be almost doubled to get to the real number.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:42 pm

As to the infection and death numbers, we are still very early of the current cycle of this virus. In the USA, we MAY be in the peak in a few states (NY, NJ) but in other states that only put in health orders in the last week or so, their peak will be later and possibly more severe. There is, as others noted, some issues with the real numbers from Covid-19 deaths as only persons tested and were positive are most of the numbers. NYC has a 10 times higher rate of normal of people dying at home (20 to about 200), and one has to suspect many of those excess deaths are directly from Covid-19 or unable to get treatments for underlying diseases, no one helping them. I would still suggest that the USA's death numbers will be well over 100,000 before the full run is done, probably 2 to 4 times higher from usually annual numbers from seasonal flu.

One problem in NYC has been 100's of bodies from Covid-19 and of other usual causes of death not being claimed by family in the usual time limits. Funeral homes are overwhelmed, services cannot be held, some may not have the money to even do a basic funeral as not working or already broke, so abandon the body, the remains being buried in a 'paupers' mass graveyard on Hart Island, mainly done by city prisoners.

By the way a strange positive for some in the USA, a number of car insurance companies are giving rebates or lower future premiums as a lot fewer crashes and claims over the last month. Of course they will go up when back to 'normal' and some behind on car payments or broke doing some insurance fraud.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:04 pm

These is an uptick in the % of shopper wearing masks. I didn't see many African American shoppers though, anecdotal but I hope they are staying at home for Good Friday. Sincerely hope not for financial reasons. Saw some senior citizens shopping without any personal protection,

Lot of hidden social dynamics are getting revealed. Most front-line workers are minorities on which entire country depends yet they are the ones baring the brunt of this pandemic. Nurses, public transportation employees, truck drivers, store workers, last mile delivery workforce just to name a few.
All posts are just opinions.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2540
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:57 am

Remember when our Democrats said there was no government over-reach going on?

https://kdvr.com/news/man-arrested-in-f ... istancing/
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13296
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:29 am

dobilan wrote:
"US COVID-19 fatalities ( https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america ) project as 60,415 fatalities by August 4, 2020, comparable to 58,200 US military fatalities in the Vietnam War ( ref: https://www.arch ives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics ). Two clusterf&cks of similar proportion, IMO."
- Is there any sense (I'm talking strictly biologically not ethically) in comparing the mortality by combat wounds for selected phisically fit, young individuals versus mortality by disease for elderly and chronically ill persons? .


Since in both cases the decisions leading to most of the deaths where made in the White House it absolutely is.

Can you guess who decided to not enforce epidemic control rules for nursing homes? Brilliant move!

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2275
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:27 am

NYT Columnist David Brooks last night, said, on the PBS Newshour, that "Bill Gates wants to track everyone's movement by way of their cell phones, for virus contact tracing purposes." He just said it "matter-of-factly."
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13164
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:16 am

DIRECTFLT : it's already done in some countries, including US last ally Israel.

It's being talked about here in France, it wouldn't be Microsoft though, Microsoft has 0 presence on smartphones, doesn't your journalist know that ?

It would be a government provided app. It was talked about starting a couple of weeks ago, with NGOs etc. sounding the alarm, now positions are evolving, the idea would probably be an app that will have an expiration date.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13164
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:24 am

According to Emmanuel Macron, Schengen Area leaders are in talk to keep the external borders closed until September : https://www.bfmtv.com/politique/macron- ... 92361.html (in French only)
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19126
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:29 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
NYT Columnist David Brooks last night, said, on the PBS Newshour, that "Bill Gates wants to track everyone's movement by way of their cell phones, for virus contact tracing purposes." He just said it "matter-of-factly."


He's a bit slow on the uptake, Google said they were doing this a week ago.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:35 am

Compassionate Use of Remdesivir for Patients with Severe Covid-19


RESULTS
Of the 61 patients who received at least one dose of remdesivir, data from 8 could not be analyzed (including 7 patients with no post-treatment data and 1 with a dosing error). Of the 53 patients whose data were analyzed, 22 were in the United States, 22 in Europe or Canada, and 9 in Japan. At baseline, 30 patients (57%) were receiving mechanical ventilation and 4 (8%) were receiving extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. During a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients (68%) had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including 17 of 30 patients (57%) receiving mechanical ventilation who were extubated. A total of 25 patients (47%) were discharged, and 7 patients (13%) died; mortality was 18% (6 of 34) among patients receiving invasive ventilation and 5% (1 of 19) among those not receiving invasive ventilation.


https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016
Remdesivir still seems to be promising and hope to see the results of the first randomized trials with Remedesevir soon.

Just for your information: The in the discussion shortly mentioned lopinavir–ritonavir combination is not working/has no benefit; this has been shown in recently performed clinical trials.

And two news article, who prefer read something easier to understand. :duck:
https://www.ft.com/content/c59a385f-62e1-42a2-b8ac-2ecb44305e4e
https://nypost.com/2020/04/10/two-thirds-of-coronavirus-patients-improve-after-using-remdesivir-study/
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13164
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:30 am

remdesivir is not mass produced and will not be mass produced from my understanding, so even if it worked I'm not sure it helps much.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:37 pm

Aesma wrote:
remdesivir is not mass produced and will not be mass produced from my understanding, so even if it worked I'm not sure it helps much.

Gilead is now building a production facility for remdesivir; let us hope, when the clinical trials are completed and remdesivir is approved, the production will be high enough for the serious and critical cases,.with minimum need for oxygen supplementation, the worse for ventilation and the most worse cases, for need of ECMO. There shall be priority for the high serious and critical cases in the world.

And remdesivir will be pretty sure better, than the not working lopinavir–ritonavir combination and by a great leader advertised as "game changer" Hydroxychloroquine combination (which is only in high use in USA and no where else). These are all cheap, as generics available and have not shown a benefit in clinical trials.
 
melpax
Posts: 2048
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:04 pm

Went to my local mall (Westfield Knox) in Melbourne this morning to get a couple of things, very quiet, except for the supermarkets & fresh food areas. Most stores, including the 4-level Myer department store have closed for the duration, due to lack of trade, or government regulation with the beauticians, etc. There were a few hairdressers & barbershops still open, not a real good move getting a haircut at the moment, especially with most of the staff not wearing masks.... A lot of the local cafes & restaurants in my area are hanging on doing takeaways & deliveries, even my local RSL are doing their full menu on a takeaway/delivery basis. Form what I've been hearing, UberEats are taking full advantage of the situation & are still charging their 30% take. A lot of places are encouraging pickups for this reason...
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:56 pm

I hope there is no manipulation by pharma sector with COVID19 clinical trails. The fight against HCQ (other than Trump's fixation on it or his $3,000 investment) could be a pharma industry driven campaign to sell patented/even-greened high priced drugs rather than a cheap generic drug.

We have seen this with HIV, more people would have been cured if generic variants were allowed sooner or with US aid.

Imagine, entire world needs it, who ever wins the race can make $Trillions.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm

South Korea and Israel has been doing this tracking for nearly a month now. If not longer.

The Norwegian government started talking about it around three weeks ago. They're developing an app that tracks your movement and also warns you of Corona contagion hotspots.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4262
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:14 pm

A fairly technical but easy to read summary of what the researchers in Seattle are saying about the next few months, how we can get back to work, lift some of the restrictions, what is needed to move ahead. Much of it is not intuitive. It includes a variety of projections.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... -tracking/
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:32 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I hope there is no manipulation by pharma sector with COVID19 clinical trails. The fight against HCQ (other than Trump's fixation on it or his $3,000 investment) could be a pharma industry driven campaign to sell patented/even-greened high priced drugs rather than a cheap generic drug.

We have seen this with HIV, more people would have been cured if generic variants were allowed sooner or with US aid.

Imagine, entire world needs it, who ever wins the race can make $Trillions.

Please note, pretty sure, you are not aware, how the pharma industry is working...I have to...

There are neither trillions now billions to earn with the Coronavirus pandemic. Some will earn higher number of millions, but this is only fair. Perhaps you have already recognized, that all companies have regular given their drugs as gift? In general also the pharma industry will be badly hurt, putative less than others, but they will be hurt.
Like vaccine producers, I believe, one vaccination unit will cost the same as other vaccination units, like for measles of flu. It is likely, that they will earn more money in total than in a regular years, but just because they will sell higher total numbers in short time. But this will be also fair.

Big business are all treatments for illnesses, which someone has to take for the rest of their live or for prolonged time (years). These are often immune surpressive treatments like for rheumatic illnesses or other autoimmune and systemic illnesses. There the billions are earned per year; but in Coronavirus pandemic times, these are often paused. Immune modulating treatments + a COVID-19 infection in parallel....perhaps not the best idea.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:11 pm

T4thH wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Imagine, entire world needs it, who ever wins the race can make $Trillions.

Please note, pretty sure, you are not aware, how the pharma industry is working...I have to...


I don't claim to know the inner workings of pharma industry, but I have a suspicion they want to milk this, as always.

US Government used to give $2B (don't know it was one time or recurring) to poor countries to fight HIV, but the condition was only US Pharma medicines can be purchased, even though generic drugs were available. This was during Bill Clinton administration, I am sure same practice continues.

When Obama was president, US Pharma was successful in forcing US to impose restrictions on Indian drug manufacturers, because Indian supreme court ruled against even-greening, ie., when a patent about to expire, tweak the formula and continue to hold patent.

There are probably a dozen manufacturers of HCQ around the world, but trying to link with $3000 Trump trust investment or Cohen-Novartis link, for which he has been sentenced. There seems to a concerted effort to discredit HCQ even before clinical trails. Pharma arm twists enough doctors, they will write-up even though it has potential but risky, there ends the story.

It appears generic HCQ in India sells for INR 3/dose, here in US brand name goes for $11/dose. So any $100-$200/dose two-week course magical concoction with same risks/side effects but with enough publicity claiming it is better than HCQ would bring $$BIllions or a $Trillion.

Or at the worst, third world will have a cheaper drug, Europe will flip-flop for few months and go with third world drug, US ends up using supposed to be very safe, blessed by multiple regulatory agency, made in thrid world medication at inflated price.

SARS has no vaccine after 18 years, so does MERS. What makes you think there will be a COVID vaccine will be available in 18 months?
All posts are just opinions.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:15 pm

Bad news...
Coronavirus: US overtakes Italy as country with most deaths


With official numbers of course.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/us-coronavirus-death-toll

Will a narcissistic "greatest leader" today evening proudly presents these new record numbers, hoping to break the prior record numbers of people, watching him live?
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10629
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
DIRECTFLT : it's already done in some countries, including US last ally Israel.

It's being talked about here in France, it wouldn't be Microsoft though, Microsoft has 0 presence on smartphones, doesn't your journalist know that ?

It would be a government provided app. It was talked about starting a couple of weeks ago, with NGOs etc. sounding the alarm, now positions are evolving, the idea would probably be an app that will have an expiration date.

You do know that A.) Gates ≠ "Microsoft". Gates is discussing the general ability to use smartphone data to do this via whatever application is best. And B.) In fact Microsoft has significant presence on smart phones and is used al throughout the EU.

Perhaps you are confusing the idea of a smart phone operating system with "presence"

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3225
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:45 pm

There was a post early on in this thread concerning Trump and the misinformation he has spread. Someone said there was no way (or something like that) that people are getting medical advice from Trump..

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-tr ... 1586553366

Darwin is alive and well.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:48 pm

I highly recommend this video about how China is dealing with the virus. It's from SerpentZA, a South-African man who's been living, travelling and running a business in China for 12 years. He's married to a Chinese doctor and knows more about China than 99% of Chinese people.

https://youtu.be/KQaNdTKQyLY
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:40 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
T4thH wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Imagine, entire world needs it, who ever wins the race can make $Trillions.

Please note, pretty sure, you are not aware, how the pharma industry is working...I have to...


I don't claim to know the inner workings of pharma industry, but I have a suspicion they want to milk this, as always.

US Government used to give $2B (don't know it was one time or recurring) to poor countries to fight HIV, but the condition was only US Pharma medicines can be purchased, even though generic drugs were available. This was during Bill Clinton administration, I am sure same practice continues.

When Obama was president, US Pharma was successful in forcing US to impose restrictions on Indian drug manufacturers, because Indian supreme court ruled against even-greening, ie., when a patent about to expire, tweak the formula and continue to hold patent.

There are probably a dozen manufacturers of HCQ around the world, but trying to link with $3000 Trump trust investment or Cohen-Novartis link, for which he has been sentenced. There seems to a concerted effort to discredit HCQ even before clinical trails. Pharma arm twists enough doctors, they will write-up even though it has potential but risky, there ends the story.

It appears generic HCQ in India sells for INR 3/dose, here in US brand name goes for $11/dose. So any $100-$200/dose two-week course magical concoction with same risks/side effects but with enough publicity claiming it is better than HCQ would bring $$BIllions or a $Trillion.

Or at the worst, third world will have a cheaper drug, Europe will flip-flop for few months and go with third world drug, US ends up using supposed to be very safe, blessed by multiple regulatory agency, made in thrid world medication at inflated price.

SARS has no vaccine after 18 years, so does MERS. What makes you think there will be a COVID vaccine will be available in 18 months?



Ok, I am just to tired to discuss it, with someone who believes it. I am talking about the Coronavirus pandemic and you are talking about something else. You are allowed to further discuss something else, but do not bother me.

Regarding vaccines:
https://www.vfa.de/de/arzneimittel-forschung/woran-wir-forschen/vaccines-to-protect-against-covid-19

and as permanent short link, the other can be changed:
vfa.de/corona-vaccines
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6112
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:20 pm

Another indicator the denominator is bull crap, sewage analysis shows potentially vastly more people exposed and carrying than testing of symptomatic people shows.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/corona ... 08771.html

If this proves out, minimally five times more people are ill than now known, so the death rate is one-fifth of thought.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:30 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
I highly recommend this video about how China is dealing with the virus. It's from SerpentZA, a South-African man who's been living, travelling and running a business in China for 12 years. He's married to a Chinese doctor and knows more about China than 99% of Chinese people.

https://youtu.be/KQaNdTKQyLY


I learned a lot(his views of course) about China watching his videos. It makes a lot of sense. They despise Indians, I guess one way it is a blessing in disguise for India not having close relationship with China. Any country which has heavy tourism or close business ties paid huge price, US, Europe, Iran, Japan, South Korea, Pakistan and Cruise industry to name a few.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13164
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:20 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
SARS has no vaccine after 18 years, so does MERS. What makes you think there will be a COVID vaccine will be available in 18 months?


Both fizzled out too quickly for a vaccine to be of use.

Now billions upon billions are being spent on a corona virus, and no, not necessarily to make money. So it's quite different.

But yes, we're not sure we'll get a vaccine, these things are tricky.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
olle
Posts: 2276
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:27 pm

Scorpio wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Today the number has crossed 100,000 dead worldwide from Covid-19

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

That's the official number. The real number is considerably higher. Most countries only count deaths of people who tested positive and died at the hospital. Deaths at home or at nursing homes are not counted by many countries, often because those people weren't tested. New York State officials have stated they believe about 200 daily Covid deaths go unreported in NY State alone simply from people dying at home.
Belgium is one of few countries that reports both tested AND suspected Covid deaths, both in hospitals and outside hospitals. Their numbers show that only about half the deaths happen at the hospitals, so the number of deaths for many other countries need to be almost doubled to get to the real number.


Sweden seems to have the same policy. If someone get a heart attack dies, and is covid19 positiv it is a covid19 death.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24396
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:09 pm

Bill Maher gets it right in his video on virus shaming and proposes a new rule: you can't yell at someone for breaking a rule you just made up. Facts matter. Trying to protect society from people too stupid to understand facts by dumbing things down is pure folly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:07 pm

Interesting
https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/statu ... 66018?s=20

Revelation wrote:
Bill Maher gets it right in his video on virus shaming and proposes a new rule: you can't yell at someone for breaking a rule you just made up. Facts matter. Trying to protect society from people too stupid to understand facts by dumbing things down is pure folly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8


Absolutely. The cancel culture and the Chinese propaganda in this country is ridiculous.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2540
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:05 pm

People wearing masks are the ones acting the worst. I was at Costco today and several of them were right on my heels. They weren't keeping their distance at all. They really must think their yard debris mask or bandana is going to keep them from getting the virus.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:21 pm

 
Newark727
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:30 pm

T4thH wrote:


So, under the most generous possible interpretation (giving him the second point and half of the third,) he's correct about as often as a coin flip...

Certainly sounds like someone worth taking epidemiology advice from.
 
N212R
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:05 am

tommy1808 wrote:
January 12th: China makes the complete virus genome available to everyone
Janiary 19th: reliable test protocol available to anyone.

There are really no excuses for the US federal governments failure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6szUVri_FfQ

Only 7,000 views of the CDC meeting on Feb. 26 discussing, among other things, the emerging Covid-19 virus (starts @3:00)

"really amazingly within a rapid period of time (two weeks) the Chinese had sequenced..." NOT so amazingly as the CCP knew of this virus as far back as October 2019.

The CDC spokesperson talking of the first patients (@5:00) - "but as more data subsequently became available, IT BECAME CLEAR THAT MANY PATIENTS ACTUALLY DID NOT HAVE EXPOSURE TO ANIMAL MARKETS AND THAT IS BOTH CASES THAT OCCURRED BEFORE THE BIG CLUSTER AT THE MARKET and certainly the cases that occurred after ...

And still the pangolin sleeps tonight.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:07 am

Wonder what would happen if something like this was announced in US.
Lets see how many of you go and protest this rofl.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/11/china-tar ... rus-cases/
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:34 am

T4thH wrote:


That is mostly false information.

WHO on Jan 14, tweeted there was no human to human transfer. Was parroting China's words. False and misleading.

Dr.David Nabbaro, WHO Spl. Envoy COVID-19 is on the record saying China invited WHO only in February and local team visited Wuhan in February.
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/ndtv-sp ... ole-544144
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12380
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:45 am

PixelPilot wrote:
Wonder what would happen if something like this was announced in US.
Lets see how many of you go and protest this rofl.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/11/china-tar ... rus-cases/


Nobody will bother because everyone knows fundamental rights are completely different in PRC vs the USA. They have been putting Uighurs in camps since 2015 and not a peep from PRC’s prime oil seller royals in the Gulf.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:47 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
T4thH wrote:


That is mostly false information.

WHO on Jan 14, tweeted there was no human to human transfer. Was parroting China's words. False and misleading.

Dr.David Nabbaro, WHO Spl. Envoy COVID-19 is on the record saying China invited WHO only in February and local team visited Wuhan in February.
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/ndtv-sp ... ole-544144


LOL...this is so painful. And this knowledge you have from which conspiracy site? And the source, to confirm it, is an news service from India....

It can be expected, before someone starts to spread fake news produced most likely from far right sources by accident, first to perform a minimal verification, if it is true. I am regular doing it.
But of course only, if it is not the intention to spread the fake news.

Have you ever performed by yourself a google search, like with these three words: "WHO visiting Wuhan"?
It is on the top, it is the first result, so really not difficult to identify.

https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/22-01-2020-field-visit-wuhan-china-jan-2020

Mission summary: WHO Field Visit to Wuhan, China 20-21 January 2020
22 January 2020 Statement
中文
On 20-21 January 2020, a World Health Organization (WHO) delegation conducted a field visit to Wuhan to learn about the response to 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCOV). The mission was part of the on-going close collaboration between WHO and Chinese national, provincial, and Wuhan health authorities in responding to 2019-nCoV.

The delegation visited the Wuhan Tianhe Airport, Zhongnan hospital, Hubei provincial CDC, including the BSL3 laboratory in China’s Center for Disease Control (CDC). The delegation observed and discussed active surveillance processes, temperature screening at the airport, laboratory facilities, infection prevention and control measures at the hospital and its associated fever clinics, and the deployment of the rRT-PCR test kit to detect the virus.

Data collected through detailed epidemiological investigation and through the deployment of the new test kit nationally suggests that human-to-human transmission is taking place in Wuhan. More analysis of the epidemiological data is needed to understand the full extent of human-to-human transmission. WHO stands ready to provide support to China to conduct further detailed analysis.

The delegation discussed China’s plan to expand the 2019-nCOV case definition. This will allow China and the international community to build a clearer picture of the spectrum of severity of the novel coronavirus. The new case definition and the provision of test kits to all provinces, are expected to lead to further increases in the number of cases identified and confirmed in Hubei Province and other provinces. Increases in confirmed cases are to be expected as testing is increased.

The delegation discussed with the local authorities their on-going efforts to communicate to the general public to expect more cases of 2019-nCOV to be confirmed, and to follow public health advice regarding infection control procedures. This is especially important at a time when seasonal influenza is at its highest, and over the Chinese New Year period when many people travel across China. The delegation and their counterparts agreed close attention should be paid to hand and respiratory hygiene, food safety and avoiding mass gatherings where possible. People with fever should avoid close contact with others and seek medical help.

The facilities for fever triage and for treatment of suspected and confirmed cases were visited in Zhongnan hospital. The delegation witnessed the systems that have been put in place to provide high quality diagnostic, treatment, and isolation services. The identification of infection among 16 health care workers reinforces the importance of ensuring appropriate infection prevention and control measures are in place for patients, staff and hospital visitors at all times. All health professionals should adhere to infection control procedures even in parts of the health care system that do not usually deal with cases of infectious disease.

On 21 January 2020, at the conclusion of the visit the Chinese Government has released the primers and probes used in the rRT-PCR test kit. This follows China’s rapid identification of the virus and sharing of the genetic sequence. The primers will assist with establishing real-time RT-PCR for the detection of 2019-nCoV in other countries. Chinese experts also shared with the delegation a range of protocols that will be used in developing international guidelines, including case definitions, clinical management protocols, and infection control among others.

The delegation commended the commitment and capacity demonstrated by national, provincial, and Wuhan authorities and by hundreds of local health care workers and public health specialists working to respond to the 2019-nCOV outbreak. While challenges still remain regarding the transmission, epidemiology and our understanding of the behavior of the virus, WHO and its partners will work together with China to respond to this outbreak.


And on 14th of January, the WHO has announced, that till now no transfer from human to human was shown. With additional information/knowledge, this changed few days later.
I am following the official Coronavirus story since 31-Dec-2019.
I have bought one face mask in a pharmacy on 01-Jan-2020 during morning time, before I have started to travel to my family. I have always verified this story ongoing, pretty sure prior than every one else here.
.
Last edited by T4thH on Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:50 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

That is mostly false information.

WHO on Jan 14, tweeted there was no human to human transfer. Was parroting China's words. False and misleading.


No, what they were tweeting was that there was no confirmed cases of human to human transfer on that date.

On January 3rd, Hong Kong SARS expert Guan Yi was quoted in the journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science as saying there was no confirmation of human to human transmission despite some rumours. He also said China's response was better than their response to the SARS outbreak.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/novel-human-virus-pneumonia-cases-linked-seafood-market-china-stir-concern

On January 8th the same Dr Yi from Hong Kong said he assumed this new virus transmissibility was not high

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/heal ... virus.html

January 15th or thereabouts, the Wuhan Health Commission states that although there have been no confirmed cases of human to human transmission (the facts at the time the WHO tweeted on that day) it could not be ruled out.

http://www.bjreview.com/Latest_Headline ... 90056.html

From that day onward China began to work to contain any human to human spread even though it had not been confirmed. Within a week of that event infrared thermometers are rolled out at airports and railway stations, a specialised command for epidemic control was created in Wuhan, treatment for flu symptoms was made free and mask use was required in public.

Wuhan was locked down just 3 days after human to human transmission was confirmed on the 20th of January and two days prior to the Lunar New Year holiday.

In the first 10 days of January the Chinese had mapped the DNA sequence of the virus and supplied that information worldwide.

The President of the United States was still saying it was no worse than the flu on the 24th of March! That's the incompetent response in this pandemic.
 
User avatar
Kaphias
Posts: 708
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:21 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Apparently one group in the USA had complete control on contact tracing, Indian Health Services, Dr.Birx was saying their performance was impressive, they had strike teams tracking down every contact. May be local PD Detectives working with State or FBI is the way to go. If I recall Iceland also used these techniques.

Michigan governor continues to tighten the rules. Couple of interesting additions in latest EO.

No travel between two residences. I guess people are still partying, may be neighbors or at friends place.
Big box stores have to cordon off non-essential sections of the store. Can allow only 4 people/1000 square feet. This clearly shows six feet rule was not working.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html


She is the worst of them all. Not allowing families to see each other? And who is she tondecide what is essential in a grocery store?

Alaska's very Republican Governor issued a similar order with regards to travel and physical visits a week or two ago. It's not political. Sorry to disappoint you.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:27 am

Mine are primary sources, not manipulated secondary sources.

WHO Tweet
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/12170432 ... wsrc%5Etfw

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China
Flag of China


By Jan 14, China very well knew there were cases of human to human transmission. China lied, so did WHO.

and WHO COVID19 Special Enjoy on a TV show
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/ndtv-sp ... ole-544144

Unless Dr.David Nabbaro of the great WHO retracts his statement made on a TV show, I will go with his statement.
All posts are just opinions.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2540
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:52 am

Kaphias wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Apparently one group in the USA had complete control on contact tracing, Indian Health Services, Dr.Birx was saying their performance was impressive, they had strike teams tracking down every contact. May be local PD Detectives working with State or FBI is the way to go. If I recall Iceland also used these techniques.

Michigan governor continues to tighten the rules. Couple of interesting additions in latest EO.

No travel between two residences. I guess people are still partying, may be neighbors or at friends place.
Big box stores have to cordon off non-essential sections of the store. Can allow only 4 people/1000 square feet. This clearly shows six feet rule was not working.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html


She is the worst of them all. Not allowing families to see each other? And who is she tondecide what is essential in a grocery store?

Alaska's very Republican Governor issued a similar order with regards to travel and physical visits a week or two ago. It's not political. Sorry to disappoint you.


That's got nothing to do with it. I've cricized Republican mayors and governors as well.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:07 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Mine are primary sources, not manipulated secondary sources.

WHO Tweet
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/12170432 ... wsrc%5Etfw

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China
Flag of China


By Jan 14, China very well knew there were cases of human to human transmission. China lied, so did WHO.

and WHO COVID19 Special Enjoy on a TV show
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/ndtv-sp ... ole-544144

Unless Dr.David Nabbaro of the great WHO retracts his statement made on a TV show, I will go with his statement.

OK, and again it is clearly shown, it is stupid to discuss with extremists in any form, it is just wasting of time. They have their own truth, they believe, they have their own sources, that is enough.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alias1024, bgm, MesaAirPHX and 44 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos