Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
N212R
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:52 am

 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:11 am

And more from same source.
Wish we would get more info from China cause this is not looking good if true.
https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/statu ... 86373?s=21
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2210
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:21 am

For something that is claimed to not work, not be effective, untested, etc it is quite surprising that a French company Sanofi has already doubled production to 100 million doses, with a quadrupling in the works - all donated. At the $10 per dose noted above (thank you) this is a $1B donation. Surely it is just a bunch of junk medicine.

French pharmaceutical giant Sanofi has committed to donating 100 million doses of the decades-old anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine — a potential but unproven weapon against COVID-19 — to 50 countries across the world.

The company has already doubled its production capacity of the drug across its eight hydroxychloroquine manufacturing sites worldwide and is on track to quadruple it by summer, the company said in a Friday statement.


https://nypost.com/2020/04/10/sanofi-gi ... countries/

The Hill (always a Trump Media Fanboy LOL) has identified it is being used extensively and does not require specific approval for use, as it is a legal drug and prescribing for what is called 'off label' use by physicians, a very common practice in the US. Some drugs in the US are prescribed more for off label use than on label. A recent Gov Cuomo briefing indicated there are over 4,000 patients in NYC hospitals on HCL, I am sure it is totally worthless if so many being prescribed it. Doctors should be going to jail for using a promising medicine!!

To start, hydroxychloroquine is not being used without any safeguards. The standard clinical trials proving its value against this disease have not been conducted — but hydroxychloroquine was tested and approved six decades ago, and it has an established record of efficacy and side effects that physicians can review. More importantly, no doctor is (or should be) prescribing it without following standard protocols observed for any drug or any patient.


Hydroxychloroquine has shown promise in treating symptomatic cases of COVID-19, which is why many doctors are using it. And a recent survey of some 1,200 U.S. doctors found that 65 percent said they would prescribe it to treat or prevent COVID-19 in a family member.


https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... ureaucracy
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2492
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:27 am

A federal judge has knocked Democrat governor Andy Beshear off his throne for his unconstitutional order.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/judge-kentuc ... in-service
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10603
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:41 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
A federal judge has knocked Democrat governor Andy Beshear off his throne for his unconstitutional order.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/judge-kentuc ... in-service

It not a politics thing it is a governor thing.

And this is why I do not believe you do not have a political driven agenda in your posts.
Goodnight.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
art
Posts: 3432
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:20 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
The Hill (always a Trump Media Fanboy LOL) has identified it is being used extensively and does not require specific approval for use, as it is a legal drug and prescribing for what is called 'off label' use by physicians, a very common practice in the US. Some drugs in the US are prescribed more for off label use than on label. A recent Gov Cuomo briefing indicated there are over 4,000 patients in NYC hospitals on HCL, I am sure it is totally worthless if so many being prescribed it. Doctors should be going to jail for using a promising medicine!!

Hydroxychloroquine has shown promise in treating symptomatic cases of COVID-19, which is why many doctors are using it. And a recent survey of some 1,200 U.S. doctors found that 65 percent said they would prescribe it to treat or prevent COVID-19 in a family member.


https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... ureaucracy


The good thing about using HCL to treat 4,000 patients is

(a) the number is high enough to have confidence in results
(b) there is a large number of controls not receiving it
(c) if a beneficial effect is demonstrated, there is something available to counter the virus
(d) if a beneficial effect is not demonstrated, use of HCL can be dismissed as somerthing to counter the virus
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:40 am

PixelPilot wrote:
Interesting
https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/statu ... 66018?s=20

Revelation wrote:
Bill Maher gets it right in his video on virus shaming and proposes a new rule: you can't yell at someone for breaking a rule you just made up. Facts matter. Trying to protect society from people too stupid to understand facts by dumbing things down is pure folly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8


Absolutely. The cancel culture and the Chinese propaganda in this country is ridiculous.


Amusing as he Is, Mr Maher in citing 'Spanish Flu' of the 1918/19 pandemic misses out an important point, it had nothing to do with Spain. Maybe he did not know. Spain was the first place to actually report the pandemic, as far as is known, it started in rural Kansas. As the the US had just joined WW1 there was a lot of people being transported to Europe. There was a news blackout in the combatant nations, Spain being neutral reported it, hence the name.

So with global pandemics albeit 100 years apart, that cause many deaths (obviously much worse in 1918/19 given the state of medical science compared to now and the general conditions of WW1 Europe), it's really a case of China 1, USA 1.
 
lowwkjax
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:52 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:51 am

Just a question, would like to hear what you guys think. Let’s say the following was to happen:

-) social distancing has been enforced in a lot of countries by now and while some countries aren’t seeing the effects yet, they will come. E. g. In Austria lockdown has started just under 4 weeks ago and we’ve been seeing a low one digit number of new infections for around a week now also with more cured people than new infections, so the number of active cases has been going down by about 3-5% daily. Other countries will follow, depending on when they started taking measures.

-) temperatures are finally going up in the northern hemisphere, most experts say this won’t stop the virus but helps slow the (as stated above already low at this point) spread, so it will be somewhere closer to zero than to what it is now soon

-) doctors are finding more and more ways how to treat bad case infections, like how exactly to supply oxygen, and so on, so people are getting better treatments the more we find out what works better

All the above has happened within 4 weeks. I can only speak about Austria but I would guess other countries are likely to be the same, just a little bit behind maybe as Austria was the first country in Europe to react this quickly with rather drastic measures, followed by almost every other county within days to weeks. But like I said, we went from zero knowledge and 40% new infections rate to a lot of knowledge and 2% new infection rate within 4 weeks.

What does this mean for the situation we will have in 4 weeks from now? At what point will we reach that moment in which governments are kind of forced to lift measures, open borders and continue to go back to normal as before, as 1 or 2 new infections a day plus way more knowledge on how to treat it would probably lead to people no longer understanding and willing to tolerate those measures? It will be mid May in 4 weeks from now, so still pretty far away from summer holiday season (another 3 or 4 times of this “4 weeks period”); people will want to go on holidays, seeing as how the virus will virtually die down as temperatures rise as much as the number of successful treatments.

Where do you realistically see us by the time summer holiday season starts?
 
art
Posts: 3432
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:38 am

lowwkjax wrote:
Where do you realistically see us by the time summer holiday season starts?


I'm not optimistic because there is no vaccine. Until there is, people will keep catching the virus.

The only firm indication (positive test results) of the lnumber of worldwide infections places it at about 1.5 million at the moment. Even if in reality 10 times as many people are infected, that is far less than 1% of the world's population. As I understand it, roughly 2/3 of the population needs to be immune to achieve herd immunity reducing the R0 number to less than 1, whereby the epidemic tails off. That level of immunity requires about 5 billion people to either catch COVID-19 and recover or gain immunity through vaccination.

Of course, if some existing drug or combination of existing drugs is discovered to treat the virus effectively the effects of the virus could be mitigated but what are the chances of that happening and the drug(s) concerned being available before the northern hemisphere holiday season? Personally I would not want to go on holiday to a different country where I could catch a dangerous virus even if a treatment was available. Having said that, I have things I need to do in a couple of other countries and for that reason I would be prepared to travel if a treatment was available for COVID-19.

Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:06 pm

art wrote:
Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.

Would that mean that you could carry the virus to wherever you travel, would the virus still be active in you?
 
marcelh
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:38 pm

lowwkjax wrote:
Just a question, would like to hear what you guys think. Let’s say the following was to happen:

-) social distancing has been enforced in a lot of countries by now and while some countries aren’t seeing the effects yet, they will come. E. g. In Austria lockdown has started just under 4 weeks ago and we’ve been seeing a low one digit number of new infections for around a week now also with more cured people than new infections, so the number of active cases has been going down by about 3-5% daily. Other countries will follow, depending on when they started taking measures.


There is still a lot of pressure at the health care system and that has to go down significantly, before you can think of relaxing the (partial) lockdown and/or social distancing. IMHO that will take at least another 1-2 months, so around June 1st.

-) temperatures are finally going up in the northern hemisphere, most experts say this won’t stop the virus but helps slow the (as stated above already low at this point) spread, so it will be somewhere closer to zero than to what it is now soon


It might help in relaxing the (partial) lockdown, but the elderly and other groups who are vulnerable have to take strict measures not to become infected. That's still a lot of people.

-) doctors are finding more and more ways how to treat bad case infections, like how exactly to supply oxygen, and so on, so people are getting better treatments the more we find out what works better.


We have to do everything to prevent people to be taken to the hospital. The health care system is just able to cope with the current crisis but can't take it forever.

All the above has happened within 4 weeks. I can only speak about Austria but I would guess other countries are likely to be the same, just a little bit behind maybe as Austria was the first country in Europe to react this quickly with rather drastic measures, followed by almost every other county within days to weeks. But like I said, we went from zero knowledge and 40% new infections rate to a lot of knowledge and 2% new infection rate within 4 weeks.

What does this mean for the situation we will have in 4 weeks from now? At what point will we reach that moment in which governments are kind of forced to lift measures, open borders and continue to go back to normal as before, as 1 or 2 new infections a day plus way more knowledge on how to treat it would probably lead to people no longer understanding and willing to tolerate those measures? It will be mid May in 4 weeks from now, so still pretty far away from summer holiday season (another 3 or 4 times of this “4 weeks period”); people will want to go on holidays, seeing as how the virus will virtually die down as temperatures rise as much as the number of successful treatments.

Where do you realistically see us by the time summer holiday season starts?


At the start of the summer holiday season, some countries have relaxed the (partial) lockdown, but a lot of borders will be closed for non-essential traffic. And social distancing will be needed to prevent a new outbreak.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:41 pm

par13del wrote:
art wrote:
Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.

Would that mean that you could carry the virus to wherever you travel, would the virus still be active in you?

Doesn't immunity mean you have antibodies which will prevent the virus to be active?
 
art
Posts: 3432
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:44 pm

par13del wrote:
art wrote:
Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.

Would that mean that you could carry the virus to wherever you travel, would the virus still be active in you?


I can't give you an answer to that. I hope trials will establish for sure that if you have antibodies but no symptoms, you are not infected.

marcelh wrote:
par13del wrote:
Doesn't immunity mean you have antibodies which will prevent the virus to be active?


I think that while infected you develop antibodies specific to the virus concerned so I guess the presence of antibodies does not on its own mean you are not infectious. Clarification from someone who knows would be welcome.
 
melpax
Posts: 2047
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:50 pm

Some very real concerns here in Australia about civil liberties being trampled in the name of 'flattening the curve'. Most of us are supportive of the measures at the moment, but the real concern is if they continue at the current level for the next 6 months or so. As you'll see in the video below (this was shown on TV here earlier tonight), the military are now assisting police with things such as roadside checkpoints, and quarantine measures. Here in Melbourne at least, it almost feels like undeclared martial law, you can only leave your home to go to work or study if it can't be done at home, obtain food & 'supplies', to seek medical attention & 'care giving', and for excercise (gyms have been closed for the past 3 weeks). The police have been accused of being heavy-handed in enforcing these rules (AUD$1,600 fine for being in breach), even to the point of a 16 year old learner driver being fined while out on a driving lesson with her mother as the supervising driver as she was on a 'non-essential' outing. The fine was later overturned after media attention, but the state chief health officer came out & deemed driving lessons to be non-essential travel. Have also heard of cyclists being fined for being 'too far' from their homes.

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus ... a-12-april

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWK1tun2UJg
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13122
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:57 pm

That's the same kind of lockdown we have here in France, Italy and Spain. Well, on top of it we must sign a paper before going out to show police.

However nobody has talked of doing this for 6 months.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8338
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:58 pm

art wrote:
...
Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.


I believe so. That is why experts are saying antibody tests are important. Those who have antibodies in the system will be allowed start their new normal life.

There is an YouTube channel by a retired British Nurse Teacher Dr. John Campbell. Daily he shares his thoughts, very interesting tidbits you can learn than reading online or TV. There was a sampling done in one of the German town/village of 1000 people. 2% tested positive, 16% had antibodies. I believe herd immunity target is above 60%.
All posts are just opinions.
 
art
Posts: 3432
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
art wrote:
...
Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.


I believe so. That is why experts are saying antibody tests are important. Those who have antibodies in the system will be allowed start their new normal life.

There is an YouTube channel by a retired British Nurse Teacher Dr. John Campbell. Daily he shares his thoughts, very interesting tidbits you can learn than reading online or TV. There was a sampling done in one of the German town/village of 1000 people. 2% tested positive, 16% had antibodies. I believe herd immunity target is above 60%.


I recommend a program I saw on Horizon (BBC program) a couple of days ago. Very enlightening to a medical ignoramus like me. Explained and illustrated in terms I could understand how a virus functions and the body's response.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24299
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:36 pm

GDB wrote:
Amusing as he Is, Mr Maher in citing 'Spanish Flu' of the 1918/19 pandemic misses out an important point, it had nothing to do with Spain. Maybe he did not know. Spain was the first place to actually report the pandemic, as far as is known, it started in rural Kansas. As the the US had just joined WW1 there was a lot of people being transported to Europe. There was a news blackout in the combatant nations, Spain being neutral reported it, hence the name.

So with global pandemics albeit 100 years apart, that cause many deaths (obviously much worse in 1918/19 given the state of medical science compared to now and the general conditions of WW1 Europe), it's really a case of China 1, USA 1.

I think your score keeping is off, but I also think Maher would have been better off leaving that sentence or two out of his piece.

Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu ) says:

To maintain morale, World War I censors minimized early reports of illness and mortality in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and the United States. Newspapers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain, such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII, and these stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit. This gave rise to the name Spanish flu. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin, with varying views as to its location.

and then gives references that suggest the disease may have originated in UK (!), US, China, Austria or other places.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
wingman
Posts: 3947
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
I think your score keeping is off, but I also think Maher would have been better off leaving that sentence or two out of his piece.


I've also read that the Kansas connection is unproved and unprovable. And either way, when put in the proper context of scientific knowledge, mass communication and sense of global obligation and decency as befitting a true superpower..I think that score is more balance at Chine 100: US 0. Historically though, the undisputed champions of viral genocide, on an absolute basis, would be European explorers and colonizers. From Africa to the Americas and the South Pacific, they absolutely ravaged entire countries and continents. But the relative ignorance of the day in such matters still puts China is an extremely bad light.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:01 pm

Aesma wrote:
That's the same kind of lockdown we have here in France, Italy and Spain. Well, on top of it we must sign a paper before going out to show police.

However nobody has talked of doing this for 6 months.

In the Netherlands they have what is called an “intelligent lockdown”. People are advised to stay at home as much as possible. Work at home when possible and go to a store when really necessary. To go out for a walk or biking is possible, but with the 1,5 meter of social distance in mind. Is does work very well; not perfect but the number of COViD19 patients at the ICU is stabilizing.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1037
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:44 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
art wrote:
...
Ideally I would like to discover that I had suffered from COVID-19 asymptomatically and was now immune. Then I could travel freely.


I believe so. That is why experts are saying antibody tests are important. Those who have antibodies in the system will be allowed start their new normal life.

There is an YouTube channel by a retired British Nurse Teacher Dr. John Campbell. Daily he shares his thoughts, very interesting tidbits you can learn than reading online or TV. There was a sampling done in one of the German town/village of 1000 people. 2% tested positive, 16% had antibodies. I believe herd immunity target is above 60%.


Please note, the test was done in the town of Gangelt in district Heinsberg in Germany, Gangelt has a population of around 12.000. It was an interim analysis, till now the results of 509 people have been included, 1000 have been tested.
Gangelt is one of the local hotspots in Germany, as there was a carnival party with around 300 to 400 persons and one couple with COVID-19 infection. Around 200 of them got it at this one eveneing and later on everyone in these households of these 200.
https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/zwischenergebnis_covid19_case_study_gangelt_0.pdf.
This is the link to the first preliminary information, what is missing and this is important, are the methods. I am waiting for the information, which immune test has been used and most important, which additional tests have been performed to exclude the false positive (so these who have had just one of the regular Coronaviruc infections, like a cold). This is till now not stated/statement pending.

And this is the regular issue till now. There is no one step immune test, to prove specific a COVID-19 infection. These have to be done in several steps now. Now there have to be perform one first general test to prove a former general Coronavirus infection and after this, several high expensive other tests have to be performed, to exclude all others, so at the end, it can be said, most likely this was COVID-19. This can be done in a clinical trial, performed by a university hospital with a big up to date scientific laboratory, but not as regular tests for a whole population or even only for some of the hospital and nursing homes staff of a country.

The world is waiting for a validated one step immune test.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10603
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:16 pm

N212R wrote:
Apologies for the grave tidings on Easter AM...more "propaganda" that deserves an airing.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/what-e ... n-research

The "expanse" the TV show.... OK.

From Wiki: (yes Wikipedia)
Zero Hedge or ZeroHedge has been described as a libertarian or right-wing financial blog, that presents both in-house analysis, and analysis from investment banks, hedge funds, and other investment writers and analysts. Zero Hedge, per its motto, is bearish in its investment outlook and analysis, often deriving from its adherence to the Austrian School of economics and credit cycles. While often labeled as a financial permabear, Zero Hedge is also seen as a source of "cutting-edge news, rumors and gossip in the financial industry".

Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis, advocating what CNN Business called an anti-establishment and conspiratorial worldview, and which has been associated with alt-right views, and a pro-Russian bias. Other sources describe Zero Hedge as libertarian. Zero Hedge's non-financial commentary has led to a number of § Site bans by various global social media platforms, some of which have been overturned (e.g. 2019 Facebook ban), while others remain (e.g. 2020 Twitter ban).

Zero Hedge in-house content is posted under the pseudonym "Tyler Durden"; the founder and main editor was identified as Daniel Ivandjiiski.


Uhh, yeah. Good source. (And lets throw out a couple of glib statements: Sometimes the messenger is worthy of attack when the messenger has demonstrated an inability to provide accurate messages. And regarding that Zerohedge sometimes gets it right, it is a fact that a broken clock provides accurate time twice, every.single.day.)

But of course no one will stop you from using poor sourcing.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
N212R
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:26 pm

If you don't want to believe the "propagandists", how about an everyman J.C. on a bike...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT3Ypg9LOWU
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
GDB wrote:
Amusing as he Is, Mr Maher in citing 'Spanish Flu' of the 1918/19 pandemic misses out an important point, it had nothing to do with Spain. Maybe he did not know. Spain was the first place to actually report the pandemic, as far as is known, it started in rural Kansas. As the the US had just joined WW1 there was a lot of people being transported to Europe. There was a news blackout in the combatant nations, Spain being neutral reported it, hence the name.

So with global pandemics albeit 100 years apart, that cause many deaths (obviously much worse in 1918/19 given the state of medical science compared to now and the general conditions of WW1 Europe), it's really a case of China 1, USA 1.

I think your score keeping is off, but I also think Maher would have been better off leaving that sentence or two out of his piece.

Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu ) says:

To maintain morale, World War I censors minimized early reports of illness and mortality in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and the United States. Newspapers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain, such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII, and these stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit. This gave rise to the name Spanish flu. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin, with varying views as to its location.

and then gives references that suggest the disease may have originated in UK (!), US, China, Austria or other places.


While I'm aware that China has been the source, in recent times, of similar outbreaks, I cited the 1918/19 one as only Covid-19 has matched it in scale and effect. Which does ask serious questions about the PRC leadership, it's not as if they are ever bothered by clamping down if it means mass murder in 1989 by the 'Peoples Liberation Army', bulldozing communities for their sorry dick waving 2008 Olympics, persecuting whole ethnic groups and faiths. Yet they cannot get a grip on wet markets?

While there is no certainty in the source of the WW1 pandemic, it wasn't in Spain, it has been associated with (the first) large scale movement of people from the US to Europe, right into a perfect breeding ground. So you could argue, mass pandemics, US and other WW1 Combatants 1, China 1. At least the West has not produced a global pandemic in 101 years.
Certainly the war made the spread and mortality much worse, military hospitals full of already wounded were hard hit, the poor and crowded insanitary conditions many went home to.

Said it before, we can beat the drum, even make threats economically, all we like, the PRC only really fears it's own population.
This is why I think they might have shied off from banning these markets, it's bread and circuses. No freedom, do as you are told, only read and see what we think you should. In exchange lets junk the 'Communist' part of our name so make money and let old traditions continue. (Unless you are in Tibet or other more distant parts of the nation).
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10603
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:46 pm

N212R wrote:
If you don't want to believe the "propagandists", how about an everyman J.C. on a bike...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT3Ypg9LOWU

So even more supposition and guessing and "could be, it's possible" but no actual information of fact. Fun to listen to, healthy hobby to ride a bike during all this. And reviewing various sites for information is good in him, but it's just free thought taking while riding.

So more of the same, you looking for anything to support a point rather than just finding factual information. But hey, why not? It's fun and easier to do on the web and social media nowadays.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24299
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:55 pm

GDB wrote:
Said it before, we can beat the drum, even make threats economically, all we like, the PRC only really fears it's own population.
This is why I think they might have shied off from banning these markets, it's bread and circuses. No freedom, do as you are told, only read and see what we think you should. In exchange lets junk the 'Communist' part of our name so make money and let old traditions continue. (Unless you are in Tibet or other more distant parts of the nation).

Then we should be ready for more waves of this stuff every few years since the path from avian species to humans is still in place and the path for the infected to hop on to high speed rail and/or airplanes long before symptoms appear is also still in place. Maybe after getting a few cycles every few years the CCP may figure out its own existence is at threat. Keep in mind we have no way of knowing if the next cycle will be nastier than the current one.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2210
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:32 pm

art wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The Hill (always a Trump Media Fanboy LOL) has identified it is being used extensively and does not require specific approval for use, as it is a legal drug and prescribing for what is called 'off label' use by physicians, a very common practice in the US. Some drugs in the US are prescribed more for off label use than on label. A recent Gov Cuomo briefing indicated there are over 4,000 patients in NYC hospitals on HCL, I am sure it is totally worthless if so many being prescribed it. Doctors should be going to jail for using a promising medicine!!

Hydroxychloroquine has shown promise in treating symptomatic cases of COVID-19, which is why many doctors are using it. And a recent survey of some 1,200 U.S. doctors found that 65 percent said they would prescribe it to treat or prevent COVID-19 in a family member.


https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... ureaucracy


The good thing about using HCL to treat 4,000 patients is

(a) the number is high enough to have confidence in results
(b) there is a large number of controls not receiving it
(c) if a beneficial effect is demonstrated, there is something available to counter the virus
(d) if a beneficial effect is not demonstrated, use of HCL can be dismissed as somerthing to counter the virus


So right and HCL being a drug on the market means it is reasonably safe, but we need to know if it is effective. Their doctor needs to be prescribing the best treatment for the patient. HCL may be right for some, other treatments will be right for others.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24299
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:38 pm

Interesting projection:

Image

The next 6 months, per Morgan Stanley's head of biotech

By May: Peak in new cases nationally
By June: Testing capacity hits 1M/day
By July: Serology testing widely available
By Aug: Wave 1 returns to work
By Oct: Potential vaccine for healthcare workers

Ref: https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1249413905153171457
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:41 pm

So what happens in the wake of this virus for the antivaxxer movement? Anecdotally, I haven't seen much from them on my social media pages of late.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
GDB wrote:
Said it before, we can beat the drum, even make threats economically, all we like, the PRC only really fears it's own population.
This is why I think they might have shied off from banning these markets, it's bread and circuses. No freedom, do as you are told, only read and see what we think you should. In exchange lets junk the 'Communist' part of our name so make money and let old traditions continue. (Unless you are in Tibet or other more distant parts of the nation).

Then we should be ready for more waves of this stuff every few years since the path from avian species to humans is still in place and the path for the infected to hop on to high speed rail and/or airplanes long before symptoms appear is also still in place. Maybe after getting a few cycles every few years the CCP may figure out its own existence is at threat. Keep in mind we have no way of knowing if the next cycle will be nastier than the current one.

Frankly speaking, no place on earth is immune to animal-to-human transmission. Check how many cases of leprocy or rabies occur in US, for example. Or remember the case when people with plague were isolated in NYC? That was another close call which could turn very interesting...
Ebola is another thing some believe was a major, but succesfully contained, threat.
There are too many unknown unknowns in biology. Who knows what black bacterial matter would reveal some day, for example?
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24299
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:42 pm

kalvado wrote:
Frankly speaking, no place on earth is immune to animal-to-human transmission. Check how many cases of leprocy or rabies occur in US, for example. Or remember the case when people with plague were isolated in NYC? That was another close call which could turn very interesting...
Ebola is another thing some believe was a major, but succesfully contained, threat.
There are too many unknown unknowns in biology. Who knows what black bacterial matter would reveal some day, for example?

Sure, but just because we can't prevent all transmissions doesn't mean we should not work hard to stamp out some very obvious paths for transmission.

Pest control is not perfect today, but it's better than in the days of the Plague, and overall we've decided one reason to have sewers and other sanitary facilities is to limit the spread of disease, and no one is recommending we stop doing this.

Ebola is an interesting contrast to COVID-19, in that it symptoms were more readily apparent and severe and it was much more lethal, which was sad but also acted to limit its transmission. COVID-19 symptoms are slow to appear and we are told on average each carrier infects three people largely because they don't know they are carriers.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:17 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting projection:

Image

The next 6 months, per Morgan Stanley's head of biotech

By May: Peak in new cases nationally
By June: Testing capacity hits 1M/day
By July: Serology testing widely available
By Aug: Wave 1 returns to work
By Oct: Potential vaccine for healthcare workers

Ref: https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1249413905153171457


About as pointless as the IMHE model. Where are the effects of 60 million unemployed and mass social unrest if that even remotely becomes true.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3830
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:00 pm

lowwkjax wrote:
Just a question, would like to hear what you guys think. Let’s say the following was to happen:

-) social distancing has been enforced in a lot of countries by now and while some countries aren’t seeing the effects yet, they will come. E. g. In Austria lockdown has started just under 4 weeks ago and we’ve been seeing a low one digit number of new infections for around a week now also with more cured people than new infections, so the number of active cases has been going down by about 3-5% daily. Other countries will follow, depending on when they started taking measures.

-) temperatures are finally going up in the northern hemisphere, most experts say this won’t stop the virus but helps slow the (as stated above already low at this point) spread, so it will be somewhere closer to zero than to what it is now soon

-) doctors are finding more and more ways how to treat bad case infections, like how exactly to supply oxygen, and so on, so people are getting better treatments the more we find out what works better

All the above has happened within 4 weeks. I can only speak about Austria but I would guess other countries are likely to be the same, just a little bit behind maybe as Austria was the first country in Europe to react this quickly with rather drastic measures, followed by almost every other county within days to weeks. But like I said, we went from zero knowledge and 40% new infections rate to a lot of knowledge and 2% new infection rate within 4 weeks.

What does this mean for the situation we will have in 4 weeks from now? At what point will we reach that moment in which governments are kind of forced to lift measures, open borders and continue to go back to normal as before, as 1 or 2 new infections a day plus way more knowledge on how to treat it would probably lead to people no longer understanding and willing to tolerate those measures? It will be mid May in 4 weeks from now, so still pretty far away from summer holiday season (another 3 or 4 times of this “4 weeks period”); people will want to go on holidays, seeing as how the virus will virtually die down as temperatures rise as much as the number of successful treatments.

Where do you realistically see us by the time summer holiday season starts?


I think by the beginning of June and if not governments will have to answer why to satisfy the population remaining staying home. In Ontario, Canada the cases have stabilized at about 350-500 new cases a day. Now the plan is to ramp up testing more than they have been doing which might create a surge in cases which is fine as long as the more people aren't being admitted to the hospital.

What has happened in Canada which is good but also can lead to serious overcautious behavior is that the public health officials are largely calling the shots. However their goal is to minimize infections and are not very concerned about the other residual effects of social isolation. There are very conservative and not thinking about the other factors a whole lot.

Personally I think it will be slow process and restaurants, bars, stores, salons, spas and gyms will open up with limited capacity. Sports might have attendances at 1/3 to 1/4th their normal capacity. Concerts and music festivals likely will not happen as they thrive on crowds.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24299
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:04 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
About as pointless as the IMHE model. Where are the effects of 60 million unemployed and mass social unrest if that even remotely becomes true.

What is pointless is the average bloke on the street thinking he knows more than scientists with supercomputers crunching the numbers.

Where are the effects of 60 million dumbasses trying to go back to work before the virus is stamped out and catching and spreading it to everyone they come in contact with?

What kind of social unrest do you get if every hospital bed is full because dumbasses have spread the disease faster than it can be treated?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15199
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:05 pm

One of the potential problems with this virus is with food production and processing due to supply chain issues affected. This may be a 1st major example, a Smithfield pork butchering and processing plant in Souix Falls, SD one that processes about 4-5% of all pork in the USA, having to shut down for at least 2 weeks, possibly longer, due to a major Covid-19 outbreak of its workers. The have also been smaller shutdowns of meat and other processing plants in other states, food mainly for the restaurant industry is rotting in the fields as no demand and not easy to transfer to consumer retail.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/12/smithfi ... demic.html
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8507
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:49 pm

ltbewr wrote:
One of the potential problems with this virus is with food production and processing due to supply chain issues affected. This may be a 1st major example, a Smithfield pork butchering and processing plant in Souix Falls, SD one that processes about 4-5% of all pork in the USA, having to shut down for at least 2 weeks, possibly longer, due to a major Covid-19 outbreak of its workers. The have also been smaller shutdowns of meat and other processing plants in other states, food mainly for the restaurant industry is rotting in the fields as no demand and not easy to transfer to consumer retail.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/12/smithfi ... demic.html


Just cook your foods thoroughly. This is not the best time for sashimi or undercooked meats.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6267
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:56 am

trpmb6 wrote:
So what happens in the wake of this virus for the antivaxxer movement? Anecdotally, I haven't seen much from them on my social media pages of late.


The first lawsuits start in June on poor treatment, with a massive wave of law firms trying to get established as class action lead firm for the suits.

Four months after the first vaccines is publicly released the antivaxxer's start the social media stories. Lawsuits at the six month mark.

When the second round of the virus hits late this year or early next, the social media comes out with stories that the death rate isn't really that bad. And the vaccine is worse.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
art
Posts: 3432
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:32 am

    rfields5421 wrote:
    trpmb6 wrote:
    So what happens in the wake of this virus for the antivaxxer movement? Anecdotally, I haven't seen much from them on my social media pages of late.


    The first lawsuits start in June on poor treatment, with a massive wave of law firms trying to get established as class action lead firm for the suits


    Good example of a society that has entrenched a way of crippling itself. No concession to ethics eg I may have died without your help, you helped me (or at least tried to), Now I want money, money, money - loads and loads and loads of it - because your help (or attempts to help) may not have been up to scratch.

    17%+ of GDP spent on health in US.. Who knows what on law. And an awful lot of Americans are sure the US s is the best place to live on earth?

    I'm curious as to why so many Americans think this way.

    PS I am not trying to be provocative. Have spent a substantial part of my life in other countries. In some the locals needed to tell me this was the best possible place to live. In others they did not.
     
    rfields5421
    Posts: 6267
    Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

    Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

    Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:37 am

    I don't think the US is the best place. But it is far, far from the worst.

    And it is home, where all of my family lives. Not many my age left. My first great granddaughter is expected to be born in late July. I can hardly wait to meet her.

    And I frigging HATE winter, so I'm in the south as much as possible.

    I will agree that a lot, maybe a very large majority, of my fellow citizens have no understanding of the rest of the world. How wonderful it can be.

    And they feel a need to brag and show their ignorance. Heck, compared to people bragging about the United States, you should hear the things I hear from people who live in Texas about the other 49 states.
    Not all who wander are lost.
     
    User avatar
    Aaron747
    Posts: 12293
    Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

    Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

    Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:42 am

    art wrote:
      rfields5421 wrote:
      trpmb6 wrote:
      So what happens in the wake of this virus for the antivaxxer movement? Anecdotally, I haven't seen much from them on my social media pages of late.


      The first lawsuits start in June on poor treatment, with a massive wave of law firms trying to get established as class action lead firm for the suits


      Good example of a society that has entrenched a way of crippling itself. No concession to ethics eg I may have died without your help, you helped me (or at least tried to), Now I want money, money, money - loads and loads and loads of it - because your help (or attempts to help) may not have been up to scratch.

      17%+ of GDP spent on health in US.. Who knows what on law. And an awful lot of Americans are sure the US s is the best place to live on earth?

      I'm curious as to why so many Americans think this way.

      PS I am not trying to be provocative. Have spent a substantial part of my life in other countries. In some the locals needed to tell me this was the best possible place to live. In others they did not.


      It is a somewhat strange phenomenon to be sure, but in all places it seems to stem from having swallowed too much patriotic pablum.
      If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
       
      T4thH
      Posts: 1037
      Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:03 am

      "Map of hope". Interactive global of all on-going clinical trials for COVID-10, will be on-going updated.
      Provided by university hospital of Heidelberg, Germany (HeiGIT). WHO clinical trial research page is used, there are already little less than 800 trials on-going (770). There is also a listing with all trials.

      https://covid-19.heigit.org/clinical_trials.html
       
      PixelPilot
      Posts: 563
      Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:22 am

       
      dampfnudel
      Posts: 588
      Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:59 am

      PixelPilot wrote:

      No surprise there. They’ll do anything to cover up. I mean really, how can China have a lower death toll from COVID-19 than Belgium?
      A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
       
      User avatar
      Aaron747
      Posts: 12293
      Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:58 am

      dampfnudel wrote:
      PixelPilot wrote:

      No surprise there. They’ll do anything to cover up. I mean really, how can China have a lower death toll from COVID-19 than Belgium?


      It's absolutely inconceivable.
      If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
       
      User avatar
      Aesma
      Posts: 13122
      Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:11 am

      N212R wrote:
      If you don't want to believe the "propagandists", how about an everyman J.C. on a bike...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT3Ypg9LOWU


      I picked a point in the video and listened to one sentence, that was enough : "scientists took a sars virus and made it into a coronavirus".

      The SARS virus IS a coronavirus.
      New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
       
      dtw2hyd
      Posts: 8338
      Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:35 am

      There seems to be an emerging trend of forced repatriation. This is going to be tricky with limited international service.

      https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... nt-quickly
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN21T0WM
      All posts are just opinions.
       
      art
      Posts: 3432
      Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:56 am

      I have a question for those who believe that the novel coronavirus was developed in a laboratory in China but 'escaped' into the population. Why would a state develop a virus as a biological weapon which, if it was used ianywhere, would end up infecting the world including one's own state?
       
      olle
      Posts: 2230
      Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:10 pm

      Number of people in intensive care in Stockholm Sweden seems to start to go down a little bit.

      80% of people entering intensive care in Sweden survives compared to 50% in most other countries.

      Sorry in Swedish;

      https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/over ... nsivvarden


      Supervisor: More than 80 percent survive intensive care
      UPDATED Yesterday 22: 22PUBLISHED Yesterday 12:00
      More and more patients are being discharged from the intensive care unit at Karolinska - and more than 80 per cent of those in intensive care survive. The situation is much better than expected, says David Konrad, chief physician at IVA Karolinska University Hospital.

      Intensive care at Karolinska Hospital in Stockholm has so far been able to handle the burden of corona patients better than expected, according to David Konrad, who is chief physician and head of function at Karolinska University Hospital's intensive care unit. Today, 177 intensive care units are open at Karolinska University Hospitals, but they are ready to go up to 216 if needed.

      - There are still vacancies left, not only at Karolinska but the intensive care unit in Stockholm in general has made an incomparable increase. I think we are now at a total of over 300 percent against where we normally are, so many are struggling, says David Konrad of the Weekend Studio.

      More and more print: "Is there a slight slowdown"
      Currently, 127 corona patients in intensive care are being cared for in Karolinska. Every day, between six and twelve new intensive care patients are enrolled.

      - But we also now see that more and more people are being printed from the intensive care unit, so we are approaching a little bit the plateau phase you are talking about. There is a slight slowdown - it may be temporary, it is too early to say - but it looks a little better, says David Konrad.

      More than 80 percent survive intensive care
      After examining the progress of the first patients admitted to the intensive care unit at Karolinska, it has been provisionally concluded that over eighty percent of those admitted to the intensive care unit also survive - although it can take a long time to be fully restored.

      - It is very positive, we had feared a much worse situation than that. So it looks very good, but one should not draw conclusions too soon. We are happy and happy that it looks like this right now, but we have to be a little careful about shouting hi too soon, says David Konrad.
       
      AirWorthy99
      Posts: 1092
      Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:27 pm

      LOT767301ER wrote:

      About as pointless as the IMHE model. Where are the effects of 60 million unemployed and mass social unrest if that even remotely becomes true.


      At the end of the day, many questions need to be answered. The latest projection says 60,000 will die from coronavirus, and doubtless it will even get to that amount, they will revise it down again. 60,000 is the same exact amount of deaths from the "normal" flu season 2017 https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden-av ... 7-2018.htm

      Panic is now the norm of life, its going to take a lot of time to convince people that this won't kill you, and this economy won't recover fast enough.

      This is the biggest over reaction to a crisis ever in history at the expense of destroying millions of livelihoods. But you can't say it, without being accused of being something horrible.
      “It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
       
      dtw2hyd
      Posts: 8338
      Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

      Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

      Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:30 pm

      art wrote:
      I have a question for those who believe that the novel coronavirus was developed in a laboratory in China but 'escaped' into the population. Why would a state develop a virus as a biological weapon which, if it was used ianywhere, would end up infecting the world including one's own state?


      Generally labs working on designer bio things have vaccines/therapeutic drugs to protect researchers. They know it in and out.

      By extrapolating your innocent theory, maybe it took couple of months to ramp up production to treat their citizens. There are no new cases of COVID19 in China, only imports by foreign nationals.
      All posts are just opinions.

      Who is online

      Users browsing this forum: flyguy89, lentokone, stratosphere and 51 guests

      Popular Searches On Airliners.net

      Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

      Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

      Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

      Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

      Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

      Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

      Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

      Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

      Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

      Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

      Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

      Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

      Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

      Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

      Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos