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zakuivcustom
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:59 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I am more than sure that Trump is simply using this as a vehicle to deflect some blame, but in this case I don't care. The WHO have proved themselves, from the most charitable perspective, useless (they couldn't do their job blunting future pandemics, but thank God we have them to put out utterly tone deaf recommendations for the world not to drink while they're locked down :roll: ). Not just the US, but all member nations should be reevaluating their WHO funding.


At the same time the WHO was praising China, Trump was...praising China. Calling Xi his friend etc., which noone else does. And it seems Trump had tons of info available on what was happening on the ground (was he listening ?).

Frankly, I don't care. Are you seriously intimating that after years of being decried and criticized as racist towards Chinese and being overly belligerent and aggressive to China, that he's in fact now too cozy and friendly to the Chinese? That kind of whataboutism doesn't even pass the smell test.

Was he dismissive of the virus and ill-prepared? Absolutely. So was just about every Western leader until Italy happened, but Trump will have to answer and own up to his response to voters in November. The fact remains however that the international organization dedicated to advancing global health and pandemic prevention parroted deliberately misleading facts and information from China, and actively suppressed inquiry and questioning of the disease's spread...in so doing, almost certainly contributing to the spread becoming a pandemic. As I said before, not just the US, but ALL countries should now be reviewing their WHO funding.

Newark727 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
The bottom line is that Trump response is not perfect, but so of his highly "criticized" (at least by the media...) call did turn out to be the correct thing to do. Travel ban of China then Europe especially was the right call to make, albeit in the latter case, a little bit too late.


People keep saying this, but the devil is in the details. Since they only tested for what country's passport you were holding, the first travel bans were never complete enough to stop the infection arriving, and they couldn't have been, given that there were Americans who couldn't stay abroad indefinitely, so the real crux of the matter was testing the ones who did arrive and being ready for the location and magnitude of the virus' spread.

Wholly agree with you, but you're conflating two separate questions:
Could the travel ban have been executed more effectively? (as you point out, absolutely)
vs.
Was Trump wrong to implement travel bans? (Despite the media uproar and despite the WHO saying they weren't even neccessary)

As you say, the devil is certainly in the details, but among the many things he should be criticized for with regard to his response, this is not one of them...particularly when the American and international intelligentsia were dismissive of any types of travel restrictions at that time.


And the most ironic thing as I have said this whole time is that while China can imposed travel restriction on 58.5M of their own people, when US actually decided to imposed restriction on mainland PRC, all of a sudden it is "racist", "unnecessary", "draconian".

Your second point is exactly what I am trying to bring out - yes, the restriction is not perfect (nothing is), but the uproar was NOT over whether the restriction is effective or not, but how "politically incorrect" it is.

Well, political correctness bring you the outbreak in Europe, that is, as crazy as the fact that Italy was actually the one and only European country that imposed any restrictions on people to/from China. Well, as Italy shows, they close off their border, but all the leakages from neighboring countries turn Italy into a nightmare.

Revelation wrote:
COVID-19 is coming a bit closer to home. A high school class mate of mine has died from COVID-19. Her 30-something son also has died from COVID-19. A nephew had a strong case and is now recovering but his partner may have caught it in the process. Two former co-workers have it. Two friends have it. A few weeks ago (seems like forever now) a friend died.


Definitely sorry for your losses.

Just show how the virus is no joke. When it hits, it hits, and any statistics goes out of the window.
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:09 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
And the most ironic thing as I have said this whole time is that while China can imposed travel restriction on 58.5M of their own people, when US actually decided to imposed restriction on mainland PRC, all of a sudden it is "racist", "unnecessary", "draconian".

Your second point is exactly what I am trying to bring out - yes, the restriction is not perfect (nothing is), but the uproar was NOT over whether the restriction is effective or not, but how "politically incorrect" it is.

Well, political correctness bring you the outbreak in Europe, that is, as crazy as the fact that Italy was actually the one and only European country that imposed any restrictions on people to/from China. Well, as Italy shows, they close off their border, but all the leakages from neighboring countries turn Italy into a nightmare.


Trump has no one but himself to blame for this though. He spent the last three years prior to this blaming China whenever it was politically expedient to do so, and attempting to prove the legality of a completely different travel ban with no public health justification, against numerous well-backed criticisms that it was founded on prejudice rather than policy motives. Is it really any surprise that people would be questioning his motives?
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:34 pm

Newark727 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
And the most ironic thing as I have said this whole time is that while China can imposed travel restriction on 58.5M of their own people, when US actually decided to imposed restriction on mainland PRC, all of a sudden it is "racist", "unnecessary", "draconian".

Your second point is exactly what I am trying to bring out - yes, the restriction is not perfect (nothing is), but the uproar was NOT over whether the restriction is effective or not, but how "politically incorrect" it is.

Well, political correctness bring you the outbreak in Europe, that is, as crazy as the fact that Italy was actually the one and only European country that imposed any restrictions on people to/from China. Well, as Italy shows, they close off their border, but all the leakages from neighboring countries turn Italy into a nightmare.


Trump has no one but himself to blame for this though.

Sorry, but no. As much as I detest the Cheeto in Chief, he does not bear all the blame for the virus spread.

Newark727 wrote:
Is it really any surprise that people would be questioning his motives?

No, but that doesn't make them NOT wrong now...and to be suddenly pivoting from "TRUMP'S CHINA BAN IS RACIST AND DRACONIAN!!" to "TRUMP DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH IN EXECUTING THE TRAVEL BAN" is a bit beyond the pale and intellectually shallow.
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:37 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Sorry, but no. As much as I detest the Cheeto in Chief, he does not bear all the blame for the virus spread.


I wasn't saying he did. Only that nobody is coming into this with a clean slate - everyone is judging him by the past 3 years of his administration, for better or for worse.
 
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stl07
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:53 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
And the most ironic thing as I have said this whole time is that while China can imposed travel restriction on 58.5M of their own people, when US actually decided to imposed restriction on mainland PRC, all of a sudden it is "racist", "unnecessary", "draconian".

Your second point is exactly what I am trying to bring out - yes, the restriction is not perfect (nothing is), but the uproar was NOT over whether the restriction is effective or not, but how "politically incorrect" it is.

Well, political correctness bring you the outbreak in Europe, that is, as crazy as the fact that Italy was actually the one and only European country that imposed any restrictions on people to/from China. Well, as Italy shows, they close off their border, but all the leakages from neighboring countries turn Italy into a nightmare.


Trump has no one but himself to blame for this though.

Sorry, but no. As much as I detest the Cheeto in Chief, he does not bear all the blame for the virus spread.

Newark727 wrote:
Is it really any surprise that people would be questioning his motives?

No, but that doesn't make them NOT wrong now...and to be suddenly pivoting from "TRUMP'S CHINA BAN IS RACIST AND DRACONIAN!!" to "TRUMP DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH IN EXECUTING THE TRAVEL BAN" is a bit beyond the pale and intellectually shallow.

They'll defend him no matter what. Even though he withheld resources to blue states, fired watchdogs for stimulus payments so he could take them, is prematurely reopening states just to "shit on Liberals", and defunded the WHO to play a partisan game. But NOOOOO, its more important to post about what some hypothetical liberal said that doesn't make any sense and then give Trump a free pass because it's better than supporting the "PC liberals". Don't worry though, Mr. Darwin should take care of most of them when they go out into the "reopened economy" to "defend their freedom".

I can't wait.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:04 pm

stl07 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

Trump has no one but himself to blame for this though.

Sorry, but no. As much as I detest the Cheeto in Chief, he does not bear all the blame for the virus spread.

Newark727 wrote:
Is it really any surprise that people would be questioning his motives?

No, but that doesn't make them NOT wrong now...and to be suddenly pivoting from "TRUMP'S CHINA BAN IS RACIST AND DRACONIAN!!" to "TRUMP DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH IN EXECUTING THE TRAVEL BAN" is a bit beyond the pale and intellectually shallow.

They'll defend him no matter what. Even though he withheld resources to blue states, fired watchdogs for stimulus payments so he could take them, is prematurely reopening states just to "shit on Liberals", and defunded the WHO to play a partisan game. But NOOOOO, its more important to post about what some hypothetical liberal said that doesn't make any sense and then give Trump a free pass because it's better than supporting the "PC liberals". Don't worry though, Mr. Darwin should take care of most of them when they go out into the "reopened economy" to "defend their freedom".

I can't wait.

Your whole post gives "PC liberals" a bad name and is the perfect distillation of why indepents like myself will never jump over to "your side" (whatever that is...). No room for nuanced discussion, introspection, coherence, or intellectual honesty. Just as insufferable as MAGAs, honestly :roll:
 
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Revelation
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:15 am

astuteman wrote:
Revelation wrote:
COVID-19 is coming a bit closer to home. A high school class mate of mine has died from COVID-19. Her 30-something son also has died from COVID-19. A nephew had a strong case and is now recovering but his partner may have caught it in the process. Two former co-workers have it. Two friends have it. A few weeks ago (seems like forever now) a friend died.


Sorry to hear this story, my friend.
My thoughts are with you.
It gives a different perspective when its closer to home.

We have been fortunate so far (and this makes me feel so much for those less fortunate)
We live in a stunning part of the UK (Lake District)
I am able to work from home effectively and still earn.
My daughter has managed to secure A's and A*'s in her GCSE's without even sitting them, and is at home with me.

My wife, on the other hand, runs a small care home within walking distance of where we live.
And am I glad I have my job, not hers......
Being very astute, she locked everything down at least 2 weeks before the UK government declared it, and, cross-fingers, all is well so far.
But we live and walk on eggshells.
It matters not that we would all be considered low risk.
All it needs is for one penetration of the lockdown in that home, and its game over.

She subscribes to a care home owners messaging site on facebook, and it is SO harrowing watching what is happening in UK care homes (and elsewhere in the world, I'm sure).
Breaks your heart, watching the conversations.
Once this thing gets into a care home, it is grim, to say the least.

I want to give a big shout out to all those who are caring for people that can't care for themselves.
They have been a forgotten story for a long time, although it seems to be coming out in the media now.

Rgds

Thank you also for the kind words. I agree with your comments on care givers, especially those looking after the elderly. A friend's mom lives at a fairly high end assisted living facility where every client has their own small apartment (bedroom, bath, living room, kitchenette). Early on the facility went to total isolation. No in or no out. Food put on the door mat, bell rung, take in the food, that's it. Of course these pretty well off elderly complained to the high hills. Same stuff you hear young people complaining about, lack of freedom, etc. Well, once they started hearing of how things were going at places that did not isolate early on, the complaining stopped. As you say, though, all of us that have elderly loved ones are on egg shells, hoping the evil stuff goes no where near them.

ER757 wrote:
Good luck with that - I am struggling with my lady friend - she isn't visiting friends, but she isn't as vigilant in hand washing, avoiding and/or cleaning high-touch surfaces etc as her son and I would like her to be. She's also out to various stores a whole lot more than I wish - pet store, gardening shop, two grocery stores - and that was just yesterday :(

Like I said, the only thing so far that has seemed to grab hold has been to make her concern for others kick in. Ask her how worried will you and her son be if she ends up in the hospital on a respirator and no one can visit her. Ask her how worried she will be if she picks something up at the pet store and infects others at the gardening shop, grocery stores, home, etc. Hopefully she sees this as you showing concern and not "mansplaining" or any such nonsense.

zakuivcustom wrote:
Definitely sorry for your losses.

Just show how the virus is no joke. When it hits, it hits, and any statistics goes out of the window.

Thank you as well. As you say, it's all statistics till it's someone close to you. I hope you and yours are healthy and safe!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:38 am

"Humanity has but three great enemies: fever, famine, and war; of these by far the greatest, by far the most terrible, is fever." - William Osler (1849 - 1919).

Fever, with all the lock downs, is driving us towards famine. Famine will lead to war.

What should we choose? Death of a few from fever, most from famine or all at war?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:46 am

The protests are working. The governor of MN agreed to lift draconian restrictions. These protests are a thing of beauty. As I said a couple of weeks ago, people will only put up with this for so long.
 
marcelh
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:34 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
The protests are working. The governor of MN agreed to lift draconian restrictions. These protests are a thing of beauty. As I said a couple of weeks ago, people will only put up with this for so long.

I hope those people are smart enough to keep distance and stay at home when they have a cold or are feeling ill. Otherwise they - or some older beloved ones may pay the ultimate price. COVID19 doesn’t care about people’s rights....
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:48 am

marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The protests are working. The governor of MN agreed to lift draconian restrictions. These protests are a thing of beauty. As I said a couple of weeks ago, people will only put up with this for so long.

I hope those people are smart enough to keep distance and stay at home when they have a cold or are feeling ill. Otherwise they - or some older beloved ones may pay the ultimate price. COVID19 doesn’t care about people’s rights....


I hope the governor of South Dakota runs for president one day. She is the only one that has been consistent and respected the rights of the people. She imposed no restrictions and South Dakota is doing just fine. She understood that most people will do the right thing and know what's best for them.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:30 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The protests are working. The governor of MN agreed to lift draconian restrictions. These protests are a thing of beauty. As I said a couple of weeks ago, people will only put up with this for so long.

I hope those people are smart enough to keep distance and stay at home when they have a cold or are feeling ill. Otherwise they - or some older beloved ones may pay the ultimate price. COVID19 doesn’t care about people’s rights....


I hope the governor of South Dakota runs for president one day. She is the only one that has been consistent and respected the rights of the people. She imposed no restrictions and South Dakota is doing just fine. She understood that most people will do the right thing and know what's best for them.


Of course it's doing fine - hardly anyone lives there! :lol:

The fact that South Dakota has the 46th lowest population density of any state helps immensely. Let's not ignore that very salient fact.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
marcelh
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:46 am

scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
I hope those people are smart enough to keep distance and stay at home when they have a cold or are feeling ill. Otherwise they - or some older beloved ones may pay the ultimate price. COVID19 doesn’t care about people’s rights....


I hope the governor of South Dakota runs for president one day. She is the only one that has been consistent and respected the rights of the people. She imposed no restrictions and South Dakota is doing just fine. She understood that most people will do the right thing and know what's best for them.


Of course it's doing fine - hardly anyone lives there! :lol:

The fact that South Dakota has the 46th lowest population density of any state helps immensely. Let's not ignore that very salient fact.


More important: over half of the COVID19 cases in South Dakota are workers from a meat processing plant.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19
So people who are working in close proximity and not stopped working when some of them were ill.

So TTT simply ignores the fact that lack of (social) distancing also makes casualties in South Dakota. It would be interesting to see what the govenor of South Dakota would have done when she was governor of New York..... :scratchchin: :shhh:

As said before: COVID19 doesn't care about people's rights.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:30 am

And that is where you are from, as people´s right should not care about a virus.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:49 am

marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I hope the governor of South Dakota runs for president one day. She is the only one that has been consistent and respected the rights of the people. She imposed no restrictions and South Dakota is doing just fine. She understood that most people will do the right thing and know what's best for them.


Of course it's doing fine - hardly anyone lives there! :lol:

The fact that South Dakota has the 46th lowest population density of any state helps immensely. Let's not ignore that very salient fact.


More important: over half of the COVID19 cases in South Dakota are workers from a meat processing plant.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19
So people who are working in close proximity and not stopped working when some of them were ill.

So TTT simply ignores the fact that lack of (social) distancing also makes casualties in South Dakota. It would be interesting to see what the govenor of South Dakota would have done when she was governor of New York..... :scratchchin: :shhh:

As said before: COVID19 doesn't care about people's rights.


Ok. So just stay inside. I would never support making you leave your home. So don't try and keep me confined to mine.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:05 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Of course it's doing fine - hardly anyone lives there! :lol:

The fact that South Dakota has the 46th lowest population density of any state helps immensely. Let's not ignore that very salient fact.


More important: over half of the COVID19 cases in South Dakota are workers from a meat processing plant.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19
So people who are working in close proximity and not stopped working when some of them were ill.

So TTT simply ignores the fact that lack of (social) distancing also makes casualties in South Dakota. It would be interesting to see what the govenor of South Dakota would have done when she was governor of New York..... :scratchchin: :shhh:

As said before: COVID19 doesn't care about people's rights.


Ok. So just stay inside. I would never support making you leave your home. So don't try and keep me confined to mine.


Try being more like Captain Tom.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
marcelh
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Of course it's doing fine - hardly anyone lives there! :lol:

The fact that South Dakota has the 46th lowest population density of any state helps immensely. Let's not ignore that very salient fact.


More important: over half of the COVID19 cases in South Dakota are workers from a meat processing plant.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19
So people who are working in close proximity and not stopped working when some of them were ill.

So TTT simply ignores the fact that lack of (social) distancing also makes casualties in South Dakota. It would be interesting to see what the govenor of South Dakota would have done when she was governor of New York..... :scratchchin: :shhh:

As said before: COVID19 doesn't care about people's rights.


Ok. So just stay inside. I would never support making you leave your home. So don't try and keep me confined to mine.


I haven't said "stay inside". Please don't put words into my mouth I didn't say. "Social distancing" isn't the same as "stay inside".

I stay at home as much as possible, and I can stay in my garden or go for a walk and do some running in the neighborhood. It isnt prohibited in The Netherlands and it's called an "intelligent lock down". Go only to stores if you have to, don't invite more than 2 people from outside and keep at least 1,5 meter (5 ft) distance, also at work if you can't work from home. And you stay at home when you're having a cold and you and your family stays at home when one (ore more) have a fever. I don't feel my rights are in jeopardy, it's just common sense to take these measures.

And it does work, because the curve has flattened after those measures were taken.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:16 am

marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:

More important: over half of the COVID19 cases in South Dakota are workers from a meat processing plant.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19
So people who are working in close proximity and not stopped working when some of them were ill.

So TTT simply ignores the fact that lack of (social) distancing also makes casualties in South Dakota. It would be interesting to see what the govenor of South Dakota would have done when she was governor of New York..... :scratchchin: :shhh:

As said before: COVID19 doesn't care about people's rights.


Ok. So just stay inside. I would never support making you leave your home. So don't try and keep me confined to mine.


I haven't said "stay inside". Please don't put words into my mouth I didn't say. "Social distancing" isn't the same as "stay inside".

I stay at home as much as possible, and I can stay in my garden or go for a walk and do some running in the neighborhood. It isnt prohibited in The Netherlands and it's called an "intelligent lock down". Go only to stores if you have to, don't invite more than 2 people from outside and keep at least 1,5 meter (5 ft) distance, also at work if you can't work from home. And you stay at home when you're having a cold and you and your family stays at home when one (ore more) have a fever. I don't feel my rights are in jeopardy, it's just common sense to take these measures.

And it does work, because the curve has flattened after those measures were taken.


I'm glad you have a sensible government. People in Michigan aren't so fortunate. Some governors, like Minnesota's, got the fear of God put in them yesterday and loosened the restrictions. They have gone way too far in the US. And just as I said a couple of weeks ago, the people won't stand for it.
 
Jalap
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:57 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope the governor of South Dakota runs for president one day. She is the only one that has been consistent and respected the rights of the people. She imposed no restrictions and South Dakota is doing just fine. She understood that most people will do the right thing and know what's best for them.

South Dakota isn't doing just fine.
They have one of the higher number of infections per capita in the USA.
They also have a high reproduction rate.

Hopefully states that have a low reproduction rate thanks to measures can close their borders with states like South Dakota. Because the virus will survive and spread there much longer compared to other states. This may cause confinement to last longer over the whole country.

It is such a huge mistake to see numbers like "100 daily infections" and conclude that all is okay. Ultra short term thinking.
 
art
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:20 pm

I see people are protesting about restrictions in Michigan and a couple of other states. Is that likely to spread all over?

Also, is it the case that the head of state is more concerned about implementing measures considered to enhance re-election prospects than implementing measures considered to best manage an epidemic?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:23 pm

Many of the worst hotspots for Covid-19 infections and deaths around the world have been in nursing homes and related facilities.
In my home state of New Jersey, 40%, or about 1,500 Covid-19 deaths have been with those facilities, including residents and staff. Greedy owners, low paid staff, low compensation from Medicare and Medicaid, staff not showing up as sick or fearful of getting sick, lack of PPE, persons already vulnerable to any slight infections, wanting to hide the truth, weak regulations and enforcement, all seem to be factors in these terrible levels of death in them.
I hope that serious charges including manslaughter will be brought upon the owners of private facilities and administrators of government run ones, in the meantime massive testing, bringing in of emergency staff with proper PPE, removal to safer facilities and strict enforcement of regulations occurs,
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:54 pm

art wrote:
I see people are protesting about restrictions in Michigan and a couple of other states. Is that likely to spread all over?

Also, is it the case that the head of state is more concerned about implementing measures considered to enhance re-election prospects than implementing measures considered to best manage an epidemic?


There are those stupid protests planned in many states. Oh well, Darwinism will take care of the rest.

ltbewr wrote:
Many of the worst hotspots for Covid-19 infections and deaths around the world have been in nursing homes and related facilities.
In my home state of New Jersey, 40%, or about 1,500 Covid-19 deaths have been with those facilities, including residents and staff. Greedy owners, low paid staff, low compensation from Medicare and Medicaid, staff not showing up as sick or fearful of getting sick, lack of PPE, persons already vulnerable to any slight infections, wanting to hide the truth, weak regulations and enforcement, all seem to be factors in these terrible levels of death in them.
I hope that serious charges including manslaughter will be brought upon the owners of private facilities and administrators of government run ones, in the meantime massive testing, bringing in of emergency staff with proper PPE, removal to safer facilities and strict enforcement of regulations occurs,


Nursing home is full of people working for pennies and are usually not exactly trained professionals. You thought when the Wuhan Virus hit that nursing home in Kirkland, WA, that other similar places would take more precautions. Nope, basically they go "it is limited to WA state, nothing to worry about". And boom, nursing homes are among the worst clusters in US.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:34 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
The protests are working. The governor of MN agreed to lift draconian restrictions. These protests are a thing of beauty. As I said a couple of weeks ago, people will only put up with this for so long.


I am very glad people are protesting (though they should do it in a safe manner), even as the MSM is dismissing the protests as being mostly Trump supporters and such the only ones, as if they aren't citizens enough and don't have the same rights.

Government needs to know that its the people who put them in charge, and they can't force people into having less freedom and liberties just because they think so, they need to be reminded of that. I hope more protests go on in the long term because government is treating people as lowly subjects that need to do what they say because they are smarter than us.

I would gladly protest against my Republican governor, and also protest against Trump, because its them enforcing this right now (even if he says he supports the protests).

My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented. The last time rights were so infringed was when the US put Japanese Americans (Citizens) under incarceration just because they were assumed to be a threat due to being of Japanese descendency, the other time before that was the Civil war. During those times people did not care because we were at war, right now most of us don't care to endure this because of COVID, but this can't continue much longer. I know liberals and leftists are mostly the ones that say we must be obidient, but look at this, these are the people who tell us we need to stay home: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... eezer.html

I hope in May steps are taken to start opening up,
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:35 pm

art wrote:
I see people are protesting about restrictions in Michigan and a couple of other states. Is that likely to spread all over?

Also, is it the case that the head of state is more concerned about implementing measures considered to enhance re-election prospects than implementing measures considered to best manage an epidemic?


Those were opportunistic protests, mainly by MAGA crowd. Political career depends on how she handles the pandemic and the economy, not the crowds.

Michigan being #3 and not knowing the transmission spots, Governor kept adjusting the rules, some rules were confusing.

Gardening seeds, BBQ things and baby seats accidentally made the block list annoying people who never planted a seed. BTW, they are available now.

COVID19 proved a sovereign country must keep some manufacturing in the country. Yes tech giants are great in booming economy, but Google/Facebook/Twitter can only spread rumors, cannot build a ventilator or a mask. Long run good for states with manufacturing economies.

Who knows, Medical Equipment may be the next big thing for Michigan.
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PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:59 pm

And it’s not just the assembly of masks that’s the big deal, it’s the production of the raw materials to then assemble that mask that’s going to be even more challenging.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:53 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.


There are plenty of people living a much harder lives than most of us will ever experience. I wonder what they'd think about the endless bleating about rights and freedoms while being asked to spend a few weeks indoors to help reduce the spread of a deadly virus? I expect those Americans that sacrificed their lives in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq would have little sympathy with the "hardship" of being asked to stay indoors.

A lot of people seem to be missing a sense of perspective.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:58 pm

scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.


There are plenty of people living a much harder lives than most of us will ever experience. I wonder what they'd think about the endless bleating about rights and freedoms while being asked to spend a few weeks indoors to help reduce the spread of a deadly virus? I expect those Americans that sacrificed their lives in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq would have little sympathy with the "hardship" of being asked to stay indoors.

A lot of people seem to be missing a sense of perspective.


True, lots of people dealing with worse situations and circumstances, but its also true that those who lost their lives in WWII, and all of those wars you mentioned they lost it for our freedoms and liberties, some of which are being infringed right now.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:03 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The protests are working. The governor of MN agreed to lift draconian restrictions. These protests are a thing of beauty. As I said a couple of weeks ago, people will only put up with this for so long.

I hope those people are smart enough to keep distance and stay at home when they have a cold or are feeling ill. Otherwise they - or some older beloved ones may pay the ultimate price. COVID19 doesn’t care about people’s rights....


I hope the governor of South Dakota runs for president one day. She is the only one that has been consistent and respected the rights of the people.


Noem opposes abortion rights.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:19 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
COVID19 proved a sovereign country must keep some manufacturing in the country. Yes tech giants are great in booming economy, but Google/Facebook/Twitter can only spread rumors, cannot build a ventilator or a mask. Long run good for states with manufacturing economies.


And at a minimum, don't put all eggs in one basket, especially when that basket (aka China) is ruled by a ruthless authoritarian regime.

The lack of medical equipment manufacturing capability in "western" countries definitely stands out otherwise.
=====================
Otherwise, more on Nursing Homes:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/c ... homes.html

Per NYT, at least 6900 nCoV related death are in a nursing home, which is ~20% of all nCoV related death in US.

Pure insanity...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:43 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Per NYT, at least 6900 nCoV related death are in a nursing home, which is ~20% of all nCoV related death in US.

Pure insanity...


It is sad so many people have to lose their lives to one of the biggest scam in this country. The worst part, most paid their own hard earned savings to die an unnecessary death.

I don;t know the logistics involved, but most of these people should have been moved to hospitals or homes rather than letting them die in bulk.
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:08 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.


There are plenty of people living a much harder lives than most of us will ever experience. I wonder what they'd think about the endless bleating about rights and freedoms while being asked to spend a few weeks indoors to help reduce the spread of a deadly virus? I expect those Americans that sacrificed their lives in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq would have little sympathy with the "hardship" of being asked to stay indoors.

A lot of people seem to be missing a sense of perspective.


True, lots of people dealing with worse situations and circumstances, but its also true that those who lost their lives in WWII, and all of those wars you mentioned they lost it for our freedoms and liberties, some of which are being infringed right now.


They did and what do you think they'd say to people complaining about being asked to stay at home for a few weeks? It beggars belief that they'd be impressed by them.

Seriously, how bloody hard is it to stay at home?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

There are plenty of people living a much harder lives than most of us will ever experience. I wonder what they'd think about the endless bleating about rights and freedoms while being asked to spend a few weeks indoors to help reduce the spread of a deadly virus? I expect those Americans that sacrificed their lives in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq would have little sympathy with the "hardship" of being asked to stay indoors.

A lot of people seem to be missing a sense of perspective.


True, lots of people dealing with worse situations and circumstances, but its also true that those who lost their lives in WWII, and all of those wars you mentioned they lost it for our freedoms and liberties, some of which are being infringed right now.


They did and what do you think they'd say to people complaining about being asked to stay at home for a few weeks? It beggars belief that they'd be impressed by them.

Seriously, how bloody hard is it to stay at home?


You absolutely don't understand, its not about staying home. Home is wonderful, home is great. There are many situations being created for 'staying home'. You got kids with special needs who need to go to school, you got people with health conditions that need to frequent a health center but can't because of this, you got people with businesses that are shut but need to pay bills, you got men and women who don't have money to feed their kids or pay bills because are laid off, you got people who can't go to church, you got people dealing with mental issues that can't see their doctors, you got many many issues. This is not complaining about staying home.

As for rights, I can't practice my religious faith, this is is just one of the other rights I am sacrificing for the greater good. The worse is that all of this is government mandated, I am being obligated under the penalty of prison to comply on resigning to my rights and privileges that I have been guaranteed under the constitution of this country.

All of this is going on while a massive power grab is occurring in silence and we are all more than willing to allow this to happen because of the panic induced fear (based on flawed data) the government en the MSM has created so we comply.

I got friends in the UK, and he is more than happy to comply, you guys over there have a different sort of spirit, same goes with Europeans, you folks believe too much on your government and institutions, that's good, contrary to this country where government isn't that involved in our lives.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:51 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.

3? 4? weeks is a "quite a long time" now???
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:06 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.

3? 4? weeks is a "quite a long time" now???


From "strict Constitutionalist" point of view, a campaign of systematic and systemic infringement and erosion of freedoms and liberties in the United States was launched pretty much from the day the USA Constitution was ratified. Jeffersonian "pure" vision was shattered, with attack being led by apostates-Federalists -- Hamilton and the like. It has all been downhill since that, with "purists" having been outflanked, outmaneuvered, and cheated by "big government" Hamiltonians and their spawn, which includes, by now, most of politicians in the USA.

Apparently, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Probably, COVID-19 crisis is where some plan to draw this line.
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:25 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.

3? 4? weeks is a "quite a long time" now???


For me it is, perhaps for others its not.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:38 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.

3? 4? weeks is a "quite a long time" now???


From "strict Constitutionalist" point of view, a campaign of systematic and systemic infringement and erosion of freedoms and liberties in the United States was launched pretty much from the day the USA Constitution was ratified. Jeffersonian "pure" vision was shattered, with attack being led by apostates-Federalists -- Hamilton and the like. It has all been downhill since that, with "purists" having been outflanked, outmaneuvered, and cheated by "big government" Hamiltonians and their spawn, which includes, by now, most of politicians in the USA.

Apparently, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Probably, COVID-19 crisis is where some plan to draw this line.


With all its faults, the Constitution is one great piece of document that has outlived 200+ years, making the US the oldest democracy in the world.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:52 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
3? 4? weeks is a "quite a long time" now???


From "strict Constitutionalist" point of view, a campaign of systematic and systemic infringement and erosion of freedoms and liberties in the United States was launched pretty much from the day the USA Constitution was ratified. Jeffersonian "pure" vision was shattered, with attack being led by apostates-Federalists -- Hamilton and the like. It has all been downhill since that, with "purists" having been outflanked, outmaneuvered, and cheated by "big government" Hamiltonians and their spawn, which includes, by now, most of politicians in the USA.

Apparently, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Probably, COVID-19 crisis is where some plan to draw this line.


With all its faults, the Constitution is one great piece of document that has outlived 200+ years, making the US the oldest democracy in the world.


Framers of US Constitution detested democracy, mostly. They founded a republic, and designed provisions to prevent its degeneration into a democracy -- which ironically, is exactly what has happened.
Some of the founding fathers actually did not like a republic either, and were constantly reminding that they founded a "Union" -- and thus even the formulation "We the people" was an apostasy of the original intent of formation of the United States; with states being sovereign. Thus, "We the States" would have been a better formula; alas, Hamiltonian rot has already set in, and was deeply entrenched by that time...
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rfields5421
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:22 pm

"We the people" was purposely written that way because this nation had a "We the states" government and it failed miserably.

Thirteen independent nations trying to work as a union was not possible in 1780's and is not today. If the federal government did not hold overriding power, the United States would not include any lands west of the Mississippi River, likely none of Florida or the Gulf Coast.

There would only be thirteen 'states'. Each with their own armed forces, seldom cooperating with each other. Each as distrustful of the others as places like the former Yugoslavia. The Federalist Papers were propaganda to fool the public into accepting a strong federal government.

Okay, maybe it was 'Hamiltonian rot' but it is what we have. Trying to turn back the clock on history is BS.

Our nations works only if it works together. No state, or group of states, is capable of standing alone.

We are not going to be strong and survive if we try to turn into something like the European Union, which is probably the best example of what supreme states rights would turn the US into.

Our system is working pretty good right now. I disagree with opening up too soon, but it has to happen.

I'm going to laugh when all the people protesting now run out to restaurants and stores, and find many of them still closed. Not because they are prevented from opening, but because they do not have the staff or the materials to operate as before this disease.

The supply chain is currently dormant, and will take weeks to get back into operation. Yes, many people will flock to jobs, desperate for any work.

But grocery stores and places like Walmart are hiring today in many places, but applicants are fewer than demand. Many people, including those protesting, do not want to work for those wages, and do not to work where they are required to have extensive face to face interaction with people who refuse to take even the mildest precautions.
Last edited by rfields5421 on Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:29 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Michigan being #3 and not knowing the transmission spots, Governor kept adjusting the rules, some rules were confusing.

Gardening seeds, BBQ things and baby seats accidentally made the block list annoying people who never planted a seed. BTW, they are available now.

:checkmark: Important not to lump everyone in with the MAGAs and Proud Boys who were protesting. A lot of reasonable people were understandably peeved and frustrated by the arbitrary, reactionary and micro-managing restrictions the governor implemented. The whole thing was probably an exercise in showing the limits of what the government can do to enforce quarantine. Way better to work on getting buy-in from the populace and lean on them to observe restrictions voluntarily, as most states have done. It should be noted that approximately 90% of the population in the US is in fact observing social distancing. A lot of the earlier "best case scenario" models projecting hundreds of the thousands of deaths were predicting only 50% adherence to social distancing, so don't let it get lost that the vast majority are indeed following through on quarantining recommendations and guidelines.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:51 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Per NYT, at least 6900 nCoV related death are in a nursing home, which is ~20% of all nCoV related death in US.

Pure insanity...


It is sad so many people have to lose their lives to one of the biggest scam in this country. The worst part, most paid their own hard earned savings to die an unnecessary death.

I don;t know the logistics involved, but most of these people should have been moved to hospitals or homes rather than letting them die in bulk.


Nursing homes are cheap compared to the alternative. Unless you have a family member that can take care of you full time.

An uncle of mine has Parkinson's, he has the means to pay for 2 full time carers, good for him, most people certainly can't do that.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PPVRA
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:27 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Michigan being #3 and not knowing the transmission spots, Governor kept adjusting the rules, some rules were confusing.

Gardening seeds, BBQ things and baby seats accidentally made the block list annoying people who never planted a seed. BTW, they are available now.

:checkmark: Important not to lump everyone in with the MAGAs and Proud Boys who were protesting. A lot of reasonable people were understandably peeved and frustrated by the arbitrary, reactionary and micro-managing restrictions the governor implemented. The whole thing was probably an exercise in showing the limits of what the government can do to enforce quarantine. Way better to work on getting buy-in from the populace and lean on them to observe restrictions voluntarily, as most states have done. It should be noted that approximately 90% of the population in the US is in fact observing social distancing. A lot of the earlier "best case scenario" models projecting hundreds of the thousands of deaths were predicting only 50% adherence to social distancing, so don't let it get lost that the vast majority are indeed following through on quarantining recommendations and guidelines.


And even if restrictions are lifted, doesn’t mean people are going to stop social distancing. It is a sliding scale.

After all, air travel collapsed before quarantines were put in place. There’s a lot people can do on their own if they’re motivated.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Jalap
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:50 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.

They have been infrigned all your life.
Civil liberties end where they can (severely) hurt yourself or others. There are speed limits, alcohol limits when driving. Those exist to save lives.
Aviation is the most regulated industry. This is for very good reasons; Surely nobody here feels those regulations should be more loosened to allow more competition on the market?
So why is this confinement such an unacceptible infringement of your freedom? Because you don't see the danger? Because not enough loved ones of yours have died?
 
winginit
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:11 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented. The last time rights were so infringed was when the US put Japanese Americans (Citizens) under incarceration just because they were assumed to be a threat due to being of Japanese descendency, the other time before that was the Civil war.


Huh? Unprecedented, since... I don't know, the last time this happened in this country, when in 1918 it was literally illegal not to wear a mask in some parts of the country in addition to the schools and other public places that were then too closed. Educate yourself.
 
Eyad89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:20 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

True, lots of people dealing with worse situations and circumstances, but its also true that those who lost their lives in WWII, and all of those wars you mentioned they lost it for our freedoms and liberties, some of which are being infringed right now.


They did and what do you think they'd say to people complaining about being asked to stay at home for a few weeks? It beggars belief that they'd be impressed by them.

Seriously, how bloody hard is it to stay at home?


You absolutely don't understand, its not about staying home. Home is wonderful, home is great. There are many situations being created for 'staying home'. You got kids with special needs who need to go to school, you got people with health conditions that need to frequent a health center but can't because of this, you got people with businesses that are shut but need to pay bills, you got men and women who don't have money to feed their kids or pay bills because are laid off, you got people who can't go to church, you got people dealing with mental issues that can't see their doctors, you got many many issues. This is not complaining about staying home.

As for rights, I can't practice my religious faith, this is is just one of the other rights I am sacrificing for the greater good. The worse is that all of this is government mandated, I am being obligated under the penalty of prison to comply on resigning to my rights and privileges that I have been guaranteed under the constitution of this country.

All of this is going on while a massive power grab is occurring in silence and we are all more than willing to allow this to happen because of the panic induced fear (based on flawed data) the government en the MSM has created so we comply.

I got friends in the UK, and he is more than happy to comply, you guys over there have a different sort of spirit, same goes with Europeans, you folks believe too much on your government and institutions, that's good, contrary to this country where government isn't that involved in our lives.



It’s very simple, right to life comes before right to freedom.

Somebody’s else right to live is more important than your right to choose when to leave home.

We are at this point now, we have to choose one of those two, and the answer is clear.


No wonder the US is the country with the most deaths by far if so many people don’t get why they should stay home.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:41 pm

winginit wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented. The last time rights were so infringed was when the US put Japanese Americans (Citizens) under incarceration just because they were assumed to be a threat due to being of Japanese descendency, the other time before that was the Civil war.


Huh? Unprecedented, since... I don't know, the last time this happened in this country, when in 1918 it was literally illegal not to wear a mask in some parts of the country in addition to the schools and other public places that were then too closed. Educate yourself.


Thank you for the education, local city ordinances are normal in the US, in fact I have lived them here in Florida when there are hurricanes, so I am accustomed to them.

A nation wide lockdown, state wide lockdown its unprecedented.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:43 pm

Eyad89 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

They did and what do you think they'd say to people complaining about being asked to stay at home for a few weeks? It beggars belief that they'd be impressed by them.

Seriously, how bloody hard is it to stay at home?


You absolutely don't understand, its not about staying home. Home is wonderful, home is great. There are many situations being created for 'staying home'. You got kids with special needs who need to go to school, you got people with health conditions that need to frequent a health center but can't because of this, you got people with businesses that are shut but need to pay bills, you got men and women who don't have money to feed their kids or pay bills because are laid off, you got people who can't go to church, you got people dealing with mental issues that can't see their doctors, you got many many issues. This is not complaining about staying home.

As for rights, I can't practice my religious faith, this is is just one of the other rights I am sacrificing for the greater good. The worse is that all of this is government mandated, I am being obligated under the penalty of prison to comply on resigning to my rights and privileges that I have been guaranteed under the constitution of this country.

All of this is going on while a massive power grab is occurring in silence and we are all more than willing to allow this to happen because of the panic induced fear (based on flawed data) the government en the MSM has created so we comply.

I got friends in the UK, and he is more than happy to comply, you guys over there have a different sort of spirit, same goes with Europeans, you folks believe too much on your government and institutions, that's good, contrary to this country where government isn't that involved in our lives.



It’s very simple, right to life comes before right to freedom.

Somebody’s else right to live is more important than your right to choose when to leave home.

We are at this point now, we have to choose one of those two, and the answer is clear.


No wonder the US is the country with the most deaths by far if so many people don’t get why they should stay home.


So I suppose no one is allowed to drive a car because they just might kill someone?

Or perhaps buying a hamburger is not allowed because I might die from a heart attack?

There is a risk for everything we do in life, does that mean we regulate and stop people from doing millions of things?

BTW, what do you think of Sweden, they don't have much of restrictions, why don't they follow your line of thinking?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:49 pm

Jalap wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
My civil liberties, my freedoms have been infringed for quite a long time now, I have accepted all in the name of the common good but this is unprecedented.

They have been infrigned all your life.
Civil liberties end where they can (severely) hurt yourself or others. There are speed limits, alcohol limits when driving. Those exist to save lives.
Aviation is the most regulated industry. This is for very good reasons; Surely nobody here feels those regulations should be more loosened to allow more competition on the market?
So why is this confinement such an unacceptible infringement of your freedom? Because you don't see the danger? Because not enough loved ones of yours have died?


There are all types of regulations, none of which would ever avoid risks. There are risks for almost anything in life, in fact, I can say something right that might endanger the life of others, yet I have freedom of expression that must be respected.

Why would there be a danger for me to actually go out to the park and run?

And most importantly, how can the government protect people from Corona virus, if there isn't a vaccine? can we hide for 18 months to avoid 'killing' ourselves as you mention? I might just die of hunger if I were to follow your perception because I would need to go to the store and buy food, but there I can get infected or infect someone else? till where would you allow the liberties and freedoms be infringed upon yourself? You might just starve to death if you follow strictly the rules that supposedly will avoid spreading corona virus.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19178
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:08 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You absolutely don't understand, its not about staying home.


Trust me, I do understand, but what I don't get is the endless complaining about it. Just suck it up like the rest of us. We're all facing the same challenges, we all have reasons why we'd like life to be normal again. We all have people we're worried about and can't visit. We all have concerns about money and the long-term effects of this.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
As for rights, I can't practice my religious faith, this is is just one of the other rights I am sacrificing for the greater good. The worse is that all of this is government mandated, I am being obligated under the penalty of prison to comply on resigning to my rights and privileges that I have been guaranteed under the constitution of this country.


What's actually stopping you practicing your religious faith at home? I imagine your god would understand. Your rights haven't been lost, some of them have been temporarily suspended to help slow the spread of the virus, just like mine and pretty much everyone else's. As I understand it, the Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that constitutional rights are not unlimited.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I got friends in the UK, and he is more than happy to comply, you guys over there have a different sort of spirit, same goes with Europeans, you folks believe too much on your government and institutions, that's good, contrary to this country where government isn't that involved in our lives.


It's really not a case of being "happy to comply", it's about understanding why everyone is making sacrifices and just getting on with it. There's probably some deep-rooted cultural differences - stiff upper lip and all that.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
speedking
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:19 am

Aesma wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Per NYT, at least 6900 nCoV related death are in a nursing home, which is ~20% of all nCoV related death in US.

Pure insanity...


It is sad so many people have to lose their lives to one of the biggest scam in this country. The worst part, most paid their own hard earned savings to die an unnecessary death.

I don;t know the logistics involved, but most of these people should have been moved to hospitals or homes rather than letting them die in bulk.


Nursing homes are cheap compared to the alternative. Unless you have a family member that can take care of you full time.

An uncle of mine has Parkinson's, he has the means to pay for 2 full time carers, good for him, most people certainly can't do that.


Nursing home Canadian style. 31 dead:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/worl ... virus.html

"Dehydrated residents lying listless in bed, unfed for days, with excrement seeping out of their diapers.."

A more humane and cheaper way to treat those people would have been a .44 Mag. (56¢/round)
 
winginit
Posts: 2937
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:47 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BTW, what do you think of Sweden, they don't have much of restrictions, why don't they follow your line of thinking?


Yes, let's check in on Sweden:

Image

Oh... oh dear... look I'm no expert but that seems... that seems quite bad.

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