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kalvado
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:51 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

The thing is... there's nothing perfect in this world especially against a unknown killer like this one.
USA & the world struggling with this is the reality. Anybody saying it is great either had this figured out before hand or it is hiding numbers.
Also have you seen any western news station or organization with foot on the ground reporting this?
Please send links. Really interested. I mean if it is great there and rainbows as you say so what's the problem?

I suggest you start with reports by Imperial College London in UK. They have some pretty interesing approaches, great experience in epidemic analysis, and zero affiliation with China.
http://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-in ... /covid-19/ is the link you need. It may be a bit more involved read than news crap, but they try keep it simple...


Zero affiliation with China... Ugh..
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/186287/ ... borations/

President Gast told Mr Cai how Imperial is the UK's top university collaborator with China and has more than 2,500 Chinese students.

President Gast said: "Imperial is collaborating with Chinese universities and corporations in areas such as the environment, sustainability, infrastructure, clean coal and climate change.

“Imperial is developing a strategic partnership with Tsinghua University and 45 of our students will visit Beijing this summer as part of a joint education programme.

“Beijing and London have a lot in common and we are eager to collaborate with the Beijing government to enhance the city as a political centre, cultural centre, centre for international exchanges, and centre for scientific and technological innovation."


Follow the money :)

Show me any research organization having no interaction with China. Love it or hate it - but "American scientists Lee and Chang" is a meme in certain circles.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:01 pm

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
I suggest you start with reports by Imperial College London in UK. They have some pretty interesing approaches, great experience in epidemic analysis, and zero affiliation with China.
http://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-in ... /covid-19/ is the link you need. It may be a bit more involved read than news crap, but they try keep it simple...


Zero affiliation with China... Ugh..
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/186287/ ... borations/

President Gast told Mr Cai how Imperial is the UK's top university collaborator with China and has more than 2,500 Chinese students.

President Gast said: "Imperial is collaborating with Chinese universities and corporations in areas such as the environment, sustainability, infrastructure, clean coal and climate change.

“Imperial is developing a strategic partnership with Tsinghua University and 45 of our students will visit Beijing this summer as part of a joint education programme.

“Beijing and London have a lot in common and we are eager to collaborate with the Beijing government to enhance the city as a political centre, cultural centre, centre for international exchanges, and centre for scientific and technological innovation."


Follow the money :)

Show me any research organization having no interaction with China. Love it or hate it - but "American scientists Lee and Chang" is a meme in certain circles.


Very true so combine this with CCP agenda + money and you have a perfect propaganda machine.
China is smart beyond all. No question about it.
On the other hand west is just a bunch of dummies preoccupied with stupidity that can't think past 4/8 years. West already lost, they just don't know it yet.
There is Trump for now but we will see how long he can hold the fort. If he manages to move some production from China to Mexico / USA / Canada then he sure will piss a lot of Chinese off. Who TF knows. Maybe we're here cause he already did.
When you look back at history what was believed to be "conspiracy theories" often became just a conspiracy. My Country alone was in countless wars for the past 1000 years. Plenty of them started due to a conspiracy / sneaky plan.
**and just to to clarify. A dumbass eating a bat is also a possibility :)
Last edited by PixelPilot on Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:06 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Zero affiliation with China... Ugh..
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/186287/ ... borations/

President Gast told Mr Cai how Imperial is the UK's top university collaborator with China and has more than 2,500 Chinese students.

President Gast said: "Imperial is collaborating with Chinese universities and corporations in areas such as the environment, sustainability, infrastructure, clean coal and climate change.

“Imperial is developing a strategic partnership with Tsinghua University and 45 of our students will visit Beijing this summer as part of a joint education programme.

“Beijing and London have a lot in common and we are eager to collaborate with the Beijing government to enhance the city as a political centre, cultural centre, centre for international exchanges, and centre for scientific and technological innovation."


Follow the money :)

Show me any research organization having no interaction with China. Love it or hate it - but "American scientists Lee and Chang" is a meme in certain circles.


Very true so combine this with CCP agenda + money and you have a perfect propaganda machine.
China is smart beyond all. No question about it.
On the other hand west is just a bunch of dummies preoccupied with stupidity that can't think past 4/8 years. West already lost, they just don't know it yet.
There is Trump for now but we will see how long he can hold the fort. If he manages to move some production from China to Mexico / USA / Canada then he sure will piss a lot of Chinese off. Who TF knows. Maybe we're here cause he already did.
When you look back at history what was believed to be "conspiracy theories" often became just a conspiracy. My Country alone was in countless wars for the past 1000 years. Plenty of them started due to a conspiracy / sneaky plan.

And that is exactly why they harnessed the problem better than anyone else.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:13 pm

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Show me any research organization having no interaction with China. Love it or hate it - but "American scientists Lee and Chang" is a meme in certain circles.


Very true so combine this with CCP agenda + money and you have a perfect propaganda machine.
China is smart beyond all. No question about it.
On the other hand west is just a bunch of dummies preoccupied with stupidity that can't think past 4/8 years. West already lost, they just don't know it yet.
There is Trump for now but we will see how long he can hold the fort. If he manages to move some production from China to Mexico / USA / Canada then he sure will piss a lot of Chinese off. Who TF knows. Maybe we're here cause he already did.
When you look back at history what was believed to be "conspiracy theories" often became just a conspiracy. My Country alone was in countless wars for the past 1000 years. Plenty of them started due to a conspiracy / sneaky plan.

And that is exactly why they harnessed the problem better than anyone else.


haha nope. They lied about it and hid the information.
That is not harnessing anything. Quite the opposite.

Also look at the tweets. Apparently round 2 coming to some provinces over there which means nothing is done.
Honestly hope not cause it only means we're gonna get hit again too and I have a feeling world would be happy to catch a break right now.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:29 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Very true so combine this with CCP agenda + money and you have a perfect propaganda machine.
China is smart beyond all. No question about it.
On the other hand west is just a bunch of dummies preoccupied with stupidity that can't think past 4/8 years. West already lost, they just don't know it yet.
There is Trump for now but we will see how long he can hold the fort. If he manages to move some production from China to Mexico / USA / Canada then he sure will piss a lot of Chinese off. Who TF knows. Maybe we're here cause he already did.
When you look back at history what was believed to be "conspiracy theories" often became just a conspiracy. My Country alone was in countless wars for the past 1000 years. Plenty of them started due to a conspiracy / sneaky plan.

And that is exactly why they harnessed the problem better than anyone else.


haha nope. They lied about it and hid the information.
That is not harnessing anything. Quite the opposite.

Also look at the tweets. Apparently round 2 coming to some provinces over there which means nothing is done.
Honestly hope not cause it only means we're gonna get hit again too and I have a feeling world would be happy to catch a break right now.

Oh, you believe tweets over science.. Is the earth flat? Is there global warming? Was 9/11 an inside job?
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:34 pm

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
And that is exactly why they harnessed the problem better than anyone else.


haha nope. They lied about it and hid the information.
That is not harnessing anything. Quite the opposite.

Also look at the tweets. Apparently round 2 coming to some provinces over there which means nothing is done.
Honestly hope not cause it only means we're gonna get hit again too and I have a feeling world would be happy to catch a break right now.

Oh, you believe tweets over science.. Is the earth flat? Is there global warming? Was 9/11 an inside job?


I believe what my eyes can see.
Science is based on assumptions made by men.
Not only that quite often it is presented without the full scope / parameters that lead to a certain conclusion.
And when you combine that with CCP regime... I mean come on :)
Agenda driven science. I think that's how it is called.

Not to mention you are deflecting the facts that China did lie about this whole thing.
And the thing about facts, you know things that happened is that they happened :)
And lets face it. It's 2020 and glaciers still didn't melt. I'm pretty sure we were told they will by now. I think this is the science you are referring to.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:43 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

haha nope. They lied about it and hid the information.
That is not harnessing anything. Quite the opposite.

Also look at the tweets. Apparently round 2 coming to some provinces over there which means nothing is done.
Honestly hope not cause it only means we're gonna get hit again too and I have a feeling world would be happy to catch a break right now.

Oh, you believe tweets over science.. Is the earth flat? Is there global warming? Was 9/11 an inside job?


I believe what my eyes can see.
Science is based on assumptions made by men.
Not only that quite often it is presented without the full scope / parameters that lead to a certain conclusion.
And when you combine that with CCP regime... I mean come on :)
Agenda driven science. I think that's how it is called.

Not to mention you are deflecting the facts that China did lie about this whole thing.
And the thing about facts, you know things that happened is that they happened :)
And lets face it. It's 2020 and glaciers still didn't melt. I'm pretty sure we were told they will by now. I think this is the science you are referring to.

I see... That's OK, First Ammendment protects your right to deny Darwin theory as well.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10155
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:49 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Science is based on assumptions made by men.
Not only that quite often it is presented without the full scope / parameters that lead to a certain conclusion.

Science is based on observation and repeating results. If that can't be tested and repeated by others then it is not science. Theories are then offered based on what is observed. Science is discussed and debated with intelligence and with reviewable sources. Science can be done by anyone really, you might have to learn something but it is there for you.

I fear too many think as you do and do not use their own mind and observation and test and repeat. I also think too many believe an opinion or a guess and then speaking to that is the "science", but of course it is not. Science is fact based not opinion based.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Dahlgardo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:50 pm

Some interesting information from the Danish health authorities.

From 1-3 april 1000 blood doners were screened for Covid-19 antibodies.
The test had an appx sensitivity rate of appx 70%, which means that 30% samples with antobodies are not counted/found.

It was found that 2,7% had the Covid-19 antibody in their blood.
When corrected for the 30%, it would indicate that up to appx. 3,5% of the population had been infected as of 3.april.

Looking at covid-19 related deaths in the same time, this would indicate a mortality rate of just under 0,1%.

After easter kindergardens will re-open, as will school classes for 0-5. graders.

It was not said directly, but the medium term strategy now seems to be exposing young children and their parents to increased risk of getting the covid-19 infection.

report can be found here (in danish)
https://www.sst.dk/-/media/Udgivelser/2020/Corona/Status-og-strategi/COVID19_Status-6-uge.ashx?la=da&hash=6819E71BFEAAB5ACA55BD6161F38B75F1EB05999
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:59 pm

Tugger wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
Science is based on assumptions made by men.
Not only that quite often it is presented without the full scope / parameters that lead to a certain conclusion.

Science is based on observation and repeating results. If that can't be tested and repeated by others then it is not science. Theories are then offered based on what is observed. Science is discussed and debated with intelligence and with reviewable sources. Science can be done by anyone really, you might have to learn something but it is there for you.

I fear too many think as you do and do not use their own mind and observation and test and repeat. I also think too many believe an opinion or a guess and then speaking to that is the "science", but of course it is not. Science is fact based not opinion based.

Tugg


Fine, please prove me that China's science is fact based and that the info we are getting through videos is fabricated. According to Kalvado China is long past any problem cause they figured it out and tweets must be fake I guess.
As to what you think i am NOT doing (the underlined part) well that's exactly what I am doing lol. What media feeds me + what independent people are posting. Combine the two and you get a picture. Not scientific but it is none the less observational. Test and repeat for three months now and my conclusion is quite clear. At this point of course that is till somebody proves me wrong. And when I mean wrong, I don't mean preaching about superiority of thinking / my political affiliation is better than yours type of thing but stone cold facts. So far none of you gave any that would make more sense than mine. Actually all you post are opinions.

So go ahead, deflect more about "people like me" and how we think. Don't fear though! (since you say you do). Life's not as bad as it seems once you stop and look around once in a while :)
Last edited by PixelPilot on Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10712
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:04 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Some interesting information from the Danish health authorities.

From 1-3 april 1000 blood doners were screened for Covid-19 antibodies.
The test had an appx sensitivity rate of appx 70%, which means that 30% samples with antobodies are not counted/found.

It was found that 2,7% had the Covid-19 antibody in their blood.
When corrected for the 30%, it would indicate that up to appx. 3,5% of the population had been infected as of 3.april.

Looking at covid-19 related deaths in the same time, this would indicate a mortality rate of just under 0,1%.

After easter kindergardens will re-open, as will school classes for 0-5. graders.

It was not said directly, but the medium term strategy now seems to be exposing young children and their parents to increased risk of getting the covid-19 infection.

report can be found here (in danish)
https://www.sst.dk/-/media/Udgivelser/2020/Corona/Status-og-strategi/COVID19_Status-6-uge.ashx?la=da&hash=6819E71BFEAAB5ACA55BD6161F38B75F1EB05999



Here is a link in English on the school openings.
It seems we are going to go through a quick spread after this.

https://www.ft.com/content/0d0f4789-63d ... 2334ea3b0e
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
Some interesting information from the Danish health authorities.

From 1-3 april 1000 blood doners were screened for Covid-19 antibodies.
The test had an appx sensitivity rate of appx 70%, which means that 30% samples with antobodies are not counted/found.

It was found that 2,7% had the Covid-19 antibody in their blood.
When corrected for the 30%, it would indicate that up to appx. 3,5% of the population had been infected as of 3.april.

Looking at covid-19 related deaths in the same time, this would indicate a mortality rate of just under 0,1%.

After easter kindergardens will re-open, as will school classes for 0-5. graders.

It was not said directly, but the medium term strategy now seems to be exposing young children and their parents to increased risk of getting the covid-19 infection.

report can be found here (in danish)
https://www.sst.dk/-/media/Udgivelser/2020/Corona/Status-og-strategi/COVID19_Status-6-uge.ashx?la=da&hash=6819E71BFEAAB5ACA55BD6161F38B75F1EB05999



Here is a link in English on the school openings.
It seems we are going to go through a quick spread after this.

https://www.ft.com/content/0d0f4789-63d ... 2334ea3b0e


Paywall?
 
Etika
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:13 pm

Well, that text has one important point missing: What was the specificity of the test. With 99% specificity, 70% sensitivity, and 2.7% positive rate, that would still mean true prevalence of only about 2.4%. A bit over one third of those positives would be false positives even with specificity of 99%. With lower specificities, the prevalence would drop even further. The 3.5% prevalence would need 100% specificity, which should be impossible.

Evaluating those numbers is really impossible without knowing at least an estimate of the specificity since the low prevalence means that even low false positive rate can result in most of the positives being false positives.
 
N212R
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:18 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
On the topic of China - not good if even half of this is accurate:

Sources in China tell me: 1. Things are very bad in Guangzhou City of #Guangdong province. #CCPVirus cases are exploding. 2. Schools and universities in Beijing won’t open until September. 來自中國的消息:廣州 #中共病毒 案例爆增, 北京的學校9月前都開不了學

https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/statu ... 48643?s=21


Does anyone dispute that Twitter is of greater "official" reliability than the CCP?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10712
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:20 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
Some interesting information from the Danish health authorities.

From 1-3 april 1000 blood doners were screened for Covid-19 antibodies.
The test had an appx sensitivity rate of appx 70%, which means that 30% samples with antobodies are not counted/found.

It was found that 2,7% had the Covid-19 antibody in their blood.
When corrected for the 30%, it would indicate that up to appx. 3,5% of the population had been infected as of 3.april.

Looking at covid-19 related deaths in the same time, this would indicate a mortality rate of just under 0,1%.

After easter kindergardens will re-open, as will school classes for 0-5. graders.

It was not said directly, but the medium term strategy now seems to be exposing young children and their parents to increased risk of getting the covid-19 infection.

report can be found here (in danish)
https://www.sst.dk/-/media/Udgivelser/2020/Corona/Status-og-strategi/COVID19_Status-6-uge.ashx?la=da&hash=6819E71BFEAAB5ACA55BD6161F38B75F1EB05999



Here is a link in English on the school openings.
It seems we are going to go through a quick spread after this.

https://www.ft.com/content/0d0f4789-63d ... 2334ea3b0e


Paywall?


Guess i got my first look for free.

Here is a Reuters link.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21O2LH

Frederiksen day care centres and schools for children in first to fifth grade will reopen on April 15, which will allow parents to return to a normal workday.

All remaining restrictions including a ban on gatherings of more than 10 people would stay in place until at least May 10, while a ban on larger gatherings would remain in place until August.

Frederiksen cautioned that the gradual reopening would only happen if the numbers stay stable and she urged all Danes to stick to the government’s guidelines on social distancing and hygiene.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:25 pm

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Oh, you believe tweets over science.. Is the earth flat? Is there global warming? Was 9/11 an inside job?


I believe what my eyes can see.
Science is based on assumptions made by men.
Not only that quite often it is presented without the full scope / parameters that lead to a certain conclusion.
And when you combine that with CCP regime... I mean come on :)
Agenda driven science. I think that's how it is called.

Not to mention you are deflecting the facts that China did lie about this whole thing.
And the thing about facts, you know things that happened is that they happened :)
And lets face it. It's 2020 and glaciers still didn't melt. I'm pretty sure we were told they will by now. I think this is the science you are referring to.

I see... That's OK, First Ammendment protects your right to deny Darwin theory as well.


You have to try a bit harder if you want to insult me :) and you're still not responding to the facts that I posted.
That's ok though. Denial is only the first step. I'll give it a 7/10 for effort ;)
I wish you well though Sir!
Actually I wish everybody well cause no matter what glasses are you looking thorough, this thing doesn't look good.

casinterest wrote:


Guess i got my first look for free.
Here is a Reuters link.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21O2LH



Thank you!
Last edited by PixelPilot on Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:28 pm

Etika wrote:
Well, that text has one important point missing: What was the specificity of the test. With 99% specificity, 70% sensitivity, and 2.7% positive rate, that would still mean true prevalence of only about 2.4%. A bit over one third of those positives would be false positives even with specificity of 99%. With lower specificities, the prevalence would drop even further. The 3.5% prevalence would need 100% specificity, which should be impossible.

Evaluating those numbers is really impossible without knowing at least an estimate of the specificity since the low prevalence means that even low false positive rate can result in most of the positives being false positives.


Here's a Google translate of the chapter in the report about the infectionrate.
4.1.2. Revised planning basis
Statens Serum Institut informs on the basis of antibody studies in 1,000 blood donors in the Capital Region, tapped in the period 1-3. April, 2.7% had been detected with antibodies, which with a sensitivity of 70%, corresponds to 3.5% of those studied
have already been infected with COVID-19. The State Serum Institute argues that if this
figures are transmitted to the entire population of the Capital Region, this corresponds to approx. 65,000 people may have been infected already on March 26. At this point, it was found
917 confirmed cases of infection in the region. This means that there can be up to 70 times
more infected in the community than confirmed cases.
In Statens Serum Institute's work on modeling the development of the epidemic in Denmark
based on studies in, among others, Iceland and Germany have chosen to work
with the real number of infected in Denmark being 30-80 times higher than the number detected.
Thus, it is estimated that the dark number is significantly higher than in the first planning scenario, and it is estimated from the State Serum Institute that for every detected infection case up to March 28, there may be 30-70 that are actually infected. This relationship will be affected by,
how many going forward will be found infected.
Thus, there is probably much more widespread infection spread in the community than previously thought. This does not have a direct impact on the planning basis for the health care system, as the increased spread of infection is in a part of the population that does not have
need for treatment in hospital and probably only to a very limited degree have sought medical attention. It should also be noted that it also means the mortality rate of infection
with SARS-CoV-2 (infection fatality rate, IFR) is lower than the mortality rate of registered cases of infection (CFR) and possibly lower than that assessed by WHO. The WHO has estimated that the IFR is between 0.3-1.0 with wide variation across age groups.
With more accurate knowledge of the darkness, IFR will for the COVID-19 epidemic in Denmark
could be specified and the expected mortality would be accurately estimated.
The State Serum Institute states that they will be able to follow continuously over the coming weeks
the development of immunity in the population through cooperation with the blood banks, focused sampling studies and testing for the population's immune status in general.
The above also means that the previous assessment of the excess mortality associated with COVID-19 in Denmark is no longer true. When one more is obtained
accurate assessment of the actual prevalence of infection on the basis of epidemiological surveillance as well as an estimated IFR for the Danish epidemic is estimated,
could be estimated a new and true mortality forecast.
The need for regular beds and intensive beds is evident from the modeling, which will be continuously qualified.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
kalvado
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:39 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

I believe what my eyes can see.
Science is based on assumptions made by men.
Not only that quite often it is presented without the full scope / parameters that lead to a certain conclusion.
And when you combine that with CCP regime... I mean come on :)
Agenda driven science. I think that's how it is called.

Not to mention you are deflecting the facts that China did lie about this whole thing.
And the thing about facts, you know things that happened is that they happened :)
And lets face it. It's 2020 and glaciers still didn't melt. I'm pretty sure we were told they will by now. I think this is the science you are referring to.

I see... That's OK, First Ammendment protects your right to deny Darwin theory as well.


You have to try a bit harder if you want to insult me :) and you're still not responding to the facts that I posted.
That's ok though. I'll give it a 7/10 for effort ;)
I wish you well though Sir!
Actually I wish everybody well cause no matter what glasses are you looking thorough, this thing doesn't look good.

I am giving you probably best scientific references available - and you get those plainly dismissed. There isn't much else to appeal to, science is the only tool humanity has for dealing with plain facts. If you deny science - that's OK, First Amendment protects you, but don't sell those beliefs as facts.
Again: growth rate and infection %% in China are similar to other heavily hit areas. At least some of those numbers are estimated from non-chinese sources; like >1% infection rate in Wuhan. Mortality %% is also making sense, it is consistent with the numbers published elsewhere. I still have to see anyone pointing out significant inconsistencies. Look at Imperial college data, they explain things pretty well.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:39 pm

Deaths per million.
**sorry it is 7 days old. Can't find current one.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/
Last edited by PixelPilot on Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:45 pm

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
I see... That's OK, First Ammendment protects your right to deny Darwin theory as well.


You have to try a bit harder if you want to insult me :) and you're still not responding to the facts that I posted.
That's ok though. I'll give it a 7/10 for effort ;)
I wish you well though Sir!
Actually I wish everybody well cause no matter what glasses are you looking thorough, this thing doesn't look good.

I am giving you probably best scientific references available - and you get those plainly dismissed. There isn't much else to appeal to, science is the only tool humanity has for dealing with plain facts. If you deny science - that's OK, First Amendment protects you, but don't sell those beliefs as facts.
Again: growth rate and infection %% in China are similar to other heavily hit areas. At least some of those numbers are estimated from non-chinese sources; like >1% infection rate in Wuhan. Mortality %% is also making sense, it is consistent with the numbers published elsewhere. I still have to see anyone pointing out significant inconsistencies. Look at Imperial college data, they explain things pretty well.


Your data contradicts statements made by various crematory officials located in Wuhan distributing ashes to the families of dead people. They can't hand them fast enough so who died? Why so many all of a sudden? It also contradicts data from the doctors that discovered / acknowledged the existence this thing.
And about 1st amendment how does it work in China btw? Last I heard the doctor that tried to warn us all got arrested with several other people. Doc ultimately died cause of it, whereabouts of others currently unknown. Luckily they managed to get some info though. You know, just asking for a friend.

Like the paper below or not, it doesn't matter.
I would like to see points with links that contradict the statements in this article.
Timeline with references. Prove me wrong. I'm all ears.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morn ... ting-lies/
 
kalvado
Posts: 2579
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:21 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

You have to try a bit harder if you want to insult me :) and you're still not responding to the facts that I posted.
That's ok though. I'll give it a 7/10 for effort ;)
I wish you well though Sir!
Actually I wish everybody well cause no matter what glasses are you looking thorough, this thing doesn't look good.

I am giving you probably best scientific references available - and you get those plainly dismissed. There isn't much else to appeal to, science is the only tool humanity has for dealing with plain facts. If you deny science - that's OK, First Amendment protects you, but don't sell those beliefs as facts.
Again: growth rate and infection %% in China are similar to other heavily hit areas. At least some of those numbers are estimated from non-chinese sources; like >1% infection rate in Wuhan. Mortality %% is also making sense, it is consistent with the numbers published elsewhere. I still have to see anyone pointing out significant inconsistencies. Look at Imperial college data, they explain things pretty well.


Your data contradicts statements made by various crematory officials located in Wuhan distributing ashes to the families of dead people. They can't hand them fast enough so who died? Why so many all of a sudden? It also contradicts data from the doctors that discovered / acknowledged the existence this thing.
And about 1st amendment how does it work in China btw? Last I heard the doctor that tried to warn us all got arrested with several other people. Doc ultimately died cause of it, whereabouts of others currently unknown. Luckily they managed to get some info though. You know, just asking for a friend.

Like the paper below or not, it doesn't matter.
I would like to see points with links that contradict the statements in this article.
Timeline with references. Prove me wrong. I'm all ears.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morn ... ting-lies/

So what should I see? A very critical story, for sure, exposing all the issues. As I said, this is a situation with gross unknown, and gravity of the situation wasn't realized for a while. Nothing new here.
I can paint you a very similar story of "US lies" - for starters, just rephrase this story with harsher words: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/heal ... pread.html
If anything, it shows much worse story occurring in a situation where much more was known.
 
Jalap
Posts: 597
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:06 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
It was not said directly, but the medium term strategy now seems to be exposing young children and their parents to increased risk of getting the covid-19 infection.

Let it be clear that if this is the objective, then the price will be that a number of children will lose a mother or father because the child infected him or her.

Losing a parent is bad enough, but how would it feel to a child if it realises that it was him or her that caused mother or father to become ill and die?

How many of those case are acceptible for this strategy? For I'm certain that this will happen. Not in huge numbers, but enough for a politician to be very aware of before making such a decision.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:43 pm

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
I am giving you probably best scientific references available - and you get those plainly dismissed. There isn't much else to appeal to, science is the only tool humanity has for dealing with plain facts. If you deny science - that's OK, First Amendment protects you, but don't sell those beliefs as facts.
Again: growth rate and infection %% in China are similar to other heavily hit areas. At least some of those numbers are estimated from non-chinese sources; like >1% infection rate in Wuhan. Mortality %% is also making sense, it is consistent with the numbers published elsewhere. I still have to see anyone pointing out significant inconsistencies. Look at Imperial college data, they explain things pretty well.


Your data contradicts statements made by various crematory officials located in Wuhan distributing ashes to the families of dead people. They can't hand them fast enough so who died? Why so many all of a sudden? It also contradicts data from the doctors that discovered / acknowledged the existence this thing.
And about 1st amendment how does it work in China btw? Last I heard the doctor that tried to warn us all got arrested with several other people. Doc ultimately died cause of it, whereabouts of others currently unknown. Luckily they managed to get some info though. You know, just asking for a friend.

Like the paper below or not, it doesn't matter.
I would like to see points with links that contradict the statements in this article.
Timeline with references. Prove me wrong. I'm all ears.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morn ... ting-lies/

So what should I see? A very critical story, for sure, exposing all the issues. As I said, this is a situation with gross unknown, and gravity of the situation wasn't realized for a while. Nothing new here.
I can paint you a very similar story of "US lies" - for starters, just rephrase this story with harsher words: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/heal ... pread.html
If anything, it shows much worse story occurring in a situation where much more was known.


And you probably wouldn't be wrong. US and frankly most of the world completely underrated this thing exposing a massive failure in any sort of preparations for event like this. Shortsighted and completely unprepared. Amateurish one might say and this transcends religion, political affiliation or race.
But there is a difference between being shitty at something and straight up burying facts about a deadly virus.
The first exposes incompetence the latter should be criminal.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2579
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:39 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Your data contradicts statements made by various crematory officials located in Wuhan distributing ashes to the families of dead people. They can't hand them fast enough so who died? Why so many all of a sudden? It also contradicts data from the doctors that discovered / acknowledged the existence this thing.
And about 1st amendment how does it work in China btw? Last I heard the doctor that tried to warn us all got arrested with several other people. Doc ultimately died cause of it, whereabouts of others currently unknown. Luckily they managed to get some info though. You know, just asking for a friend.

Like the paper below or not, it doesn't matter.
I would like to see points with links that contradict the statements in this article.
Timeline with references. Prove me wrong. I'm all ears.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morn ... ting-lies/

So what should I see? A very critical story, for sure, exposing all the issues. As I said, this is a situation with gross unknown, and gravity of the situation wasn't realized for a while. Nothing new here.
I can paint you a very similar story of "US lies" - for starters, just rephrase this story with harsher words: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/heal ... pread.html
If anything, it shows much worse story occurring in a situation where much more was known.


And you probably wouldn't be wrong. US and frankly most of the world completely underrated this thing exposing a massive failure in any sort of preparations for event like this. Shortsighted and completely unprepared. Amateurish one might say and this transcends religion, political affiliation or race.
But there is a difference between being shitty at something and straight up burying facts about a deadly virus.
The first exposes incompetence the latter should be criminal.

If you give ANY benefit of dout to US authorities, you should give 100x as much to China. Think about it: what happened between last day of December and February 1?
-virus was isolated, sequenced, and sequence published.
-human to human transmission was confirmed
-emergency hospital was underway in Wuhan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T1Cv0znSeY This videp quickly turned viral, so anyone could see things are really unwinding...

So if anyone didn't take things seriously at that point - I find it hard to blame China.

What NYT describes happened when all these facts were published - unlike CHina, where exactly none of this information was available to Chinese doctrors or authorities on 12/30. So, you still think they could do better - and you actually expect them to do WAYS better than US did, while China had with less on hand?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:15 am

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation wants everyone in the world to get injected with the COVID-19 Vaccine as soon as it can be developed and produced>>>>

Who wants to be first in line?????
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Tugger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:22 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation wants everyone in the world to get injected with the COVID-19 Vaccine as soon as it can be developed and produced>>>>

Who wants to be first in line?????

Is happily be first.
And I hate shots.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:42 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation wants everyone in the world to get injected with the COVID-19 Vaccine as soon as it can be developed and produced>>>>

Who wants to be first in line?????


I mean yes, but as soon as you add "everyone in the world," it begins to sound like some kind of James Bond supervillain plot. :o
 
alfa164
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:10 am

kalvado wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
kalvado wrote:
China is smart beyond all. No question about it.

And that is exactly why they harnessed the problem better than anyone else.


There is another reason they "harnessed the problem" - at least, the problem of Covid-19. Their system allowed them to put rules in place that not only slowed-down, but effectively eliminated the rapid spread of the disease.

And us? We didn't even have the government officials in place to attack - must less control - the problem:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/07/trump-dismantled-the-very-jobs-meant-to-stop-the-covid-19-epidemic-173347
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:05 am

The Chinese even cremated the people alive:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683

The end of communism is near. Globally. It was never for the people but only for power.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:24 am

speedking wrote:
The Chinese even cremated the people alive:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683

The end of communism is near. Globally. It was never for the people but only for power.


It's sad that China gets away with this and no one cares. But they jump all over Trump for being optimistic about hydroxychloroquine.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:39 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
speedking wrote:
The Chinese even cremated the people alive:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683

The end of communism is near. Globally. It was never for the people but only for power.


It's sad that China gets away with this and no one cares. But they jump all over Trump for being optimistic about hydroxychloroquine.


There, there...I know, life’s unfair. Need a cookie?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:40 am

If I show a video of a texan saying something similar about what happens in the US would you also believe it ?

The woman might even believe what she's saying, with low O2 in the blood the brain doesn't work that well.

As for the number of urns, burials were impossible for several months, so yes that means a backlog at the end.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:44 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
speedking wrote:
The Chinese even cremated the people alive:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683

The end of communism is near. Globally. It was never for the people but only for power.


It's sad that China gets away with this and no one cares. But they jump all over Trump for being optimistic about hydroxychloroquine.


There, there...I know, life’s unfair. Need a cookie?


Are you happy with how China is behaving?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:47 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation wants everyone in the world to get injected with the COVID-19 Vaccine as soon as it can be developed and produced>>>>

Who wants to be first in line?????


*raises hand*

I mean, I'm only a physician, former molecular biologist/virologist, and vaccine expert. What the hell do I know? Obviously, I'll want to do my own technical reading about the vaccine before I get in line, but assuming that there is at least a plausible path, I'll sign up as a test subject.

I have an autoimmune disease and take a class of medication called a TNF-alpha inhibitor, so I probably won't qualify for any trials.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
speedking
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:50 am

There will be trials in Shanghai, like in Nuremberg, where their communist leaders will face international tribunal, convicted for their crimes against humanity, sentenced to death and hanged.

After this the normal Chinese, like Germans, will enter the long road to recovery and success in the future.
 
Newark727
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:53 am

speedking wrote:
There will be trials in Shanghai, like in Nuremberg, where their communist leaders will face international tribunal, convicted for their crimes against humanity, sentenced to death and hanged.

After this the normal Chinese, like Germans, will enter the long road to recovery and success in the future.


So where are the two million Soviet troops surrounding Berlin in this analogy?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:01 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

It's sad that China gets away with this and no one cares. But they jump all over Trump for being optimistic about hydroxychloroquine.


There, there...I know, life’s unfair. Need a cookie?


Are you happy with how China is behaving?


No, but I’m realistic enough to know there is very little recourse the world has against a permanent UNSC member. Exhibit A: MH17
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:03 am

speedking wrote:
There will be trials in Shanghai, like in Nuremberg, where their communist leaders will face international tribunal, convicted for their crimes against humanity, sentenced to death and hanged.

After this the normal Chinese, like Germans, will enter the long road to recovery and success in the future.


There will be no such thing. Russia, China, the UK, France and US are permanent members of the UNSC precisely because they have shaped today’s world most, positive or negative, and clearly have a gentleman’s agreement nobody among them will be seriously held to account.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
speedking
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:05 am

Newark727 wrote:
speedking wrote:
There will be trials in Shanghai, like in Nuremberg, where their communist leaders will face international tribunal, convicted for their crimes against humanity, sentenced to death and hanged.

After this the normal Chinese, like Germans, will enter the long road to recovery and success in the future.


So where are the two million Soviet troops surrounding Berlin in this analogy?


Good question. How many real communists there are in China? They have 1400 million people. How many does it need to topple the government?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:30 am

Communism has of course nothing to do with it.

However all Chinese are brainwashed from birth, so the analogy with Germany is of limited use.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
speedking
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:46 am

Aesma wrote:
Communism has of course nothing to do with it.

However all Chinese are brainwashed from birth, so the analogy with Germany is of limited use.


Got a red badge? Suggest get rid of it, the world is coming after them soon.
 
FGITD
Posts: 762
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:54 am

DocLightning wrote:

*raises hand*

I mean, I'm only a physician, former molecular biologist/virologist, and vaccine expert. What the hell do I know? Obviously, I'll want to do my own technical reading about the vaccine before I get in line, but assuming that there is at least a plausible path, I'll sign up as a test subject.

I have an autoimmune disease and take a class of medication called a TNF-alpha inhibitor, so I probably won't qualify for any trials.


Maybe so, but Joann from down the block says it's a hoax caused by 5G, and she's had no less than 20 jobs in the last decade alone, in a multitude of fields. Sometimes she cooks the food, sometimes she serves it, and she's even cleaned It up! It looks to me like you've only been a physician and molecular virologist...so, I'm torn!

But seriously...if the actual experts say go for it, I'll go for it. No doubt about it.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:57 am

speedking wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Communism has of course nothing to do with it.

However all Chinese are brainwashed from birth, so the analogy with Germany is of limited use.


Got a red badge? Suggest get rid of it, the world is coming after them soon.


How about you are both right? Chinese are indoctrinated from Birth and it takes, it takes really good, and that has been done for 2+ generations.

However, the Junta in Beijing wouldn´t need to build the perfect surveillance state when you think you are really popular at home.

There are probably a good deal of things that could trigger a revolution in China, but Corona won´t be it, not even close, and they just have to watch news and see how much better their government performed.
That the reaction to the Virus could have been better is nothing compared to rolling over students with tanks or having concentration camps, and that is filed under "well, i guess my Government needed to do that", and i am taking about safe environments with only one PRC prisoner getting wasted with a bunch of Germans.....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

There, there...I know, life’s unfair. Need a cookie?


Are you happy with how China is behaving?


No, but I’m realistic enough to know there is very little recourse the world has against a permanent UNSC member. Exhibit A: MH17


So that means permanent members have carte blanche to do whatever they want without repercussions? That's a scary thought.
 
speedking
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:37 am

tommy1808 wrote:
speedking wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Communism has of course nothing to do with it.

However all Chinese are brainwashed from birth, so the analogy with Germany is of limited use.


Got a red badge? Suggest get rid of it, the world is coming after them soon.


How about you are both right? Chinese are indoctrinated from Birth and it takes, it takes really good, and that has been done for 2+ generations.

However, the Junta in Beijing wouldn´t need to build the perfect surveillance state when you think you are really popular at home.

There are probably a good deal of things that could trigger a revolution in China, but Corona won´t be it, not even close, and they just have to watch news and see how much better their government performed.
That the reaction to the Virus could have been better is nothing compared to rolling over students with tanks or having concentration camps, and that is filed under "well, i guess my Government needed to do that", and i am taking about safe environments with only one PRC prisoner getting wasted with a bunch of Germans.....

best regards
Thomas


I don't think so. The Germans were not all indoctrinated during the war and preceding decades, were they? The russian communists tried to do that in the eastern part of Germany afterwards with some success though, unfortunately still seen today.

The majority of Chinese are not stupid, I believe, they are just waiting for a good opportunity and facing world condemnation, this might be the correct time to do the necessary changes.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:42 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Are you happy with how China is behaving?


No, but I’m realistic enough to know there is very little recourse the world has against a permanent UNSC member. Exhibit A: MH17


So that means permanent members have carte blanche to do whatever they want without repercussions? That's a scary thought.


Pretty much - part of the gentleman's agreement referred to in reply 590. We and the USSR fomented countless bloody coups, toppling democratically-elected leaders all over the world in the 70s and 80s, and was there recourse? No. The precedent for the UNSC club was set a long time ago.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

No, but I’m realistic enough to know there is very little recourse the world has against a permanent UNSC member. Exhibit A: MH17


So that means permanent members have carte blanche to do whatever they want without repercussions? That's a scary thought.


Pretty much - part of the gentleman's agreement referred to in reply 590. We and the USSR fomented countless bloody coups, toppling democratically-elected leaders all over the world in the 70s and 80s, and was there recourse? No. The precedent for the UNSC club was set a long time ago.



That's fine. But I hope you never cirticize the US for not intervening if/when China really ramps up the mass slaughter of their own people. China won't even publish their legal execution numbers.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12541
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:06 am

speedking wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
speedking wrote:

Got a red badge? Suggest get rid of it, the world is coming after them soon.


How about you are both right? Chinese are indoctrinated from Birth and it takes, it takes really good, and that has been done for 2+ generations.

However, the Junta in Beijing wouldn´t need to build the perfect surveillance state when you think you are really popular at home.

There are probably a good deal of things that could trigger a revolution in China, but Corona won´t be it, not even close, and they just have to watch news and see how much better their government performed.
That the reaction to the Virus could have been better is nothing compared to rolling over students with tanks or having concentration camps, and that is filed under "well, i guess my Government needed to do that", and i am taking about safe environments with only one PRC prisoner getting wasted with a bunch of Germans.....

best regards
Thomas


I don't think so. The Germans were not all indoctrinated during the war and preceding decades, were they?


Exactly! But the Chinese are.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12541
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:08 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

No, but I’m realistic enough to know there is very little recourse the world has against a permanent UNSC member. Exhibit A: MH17


So that means permanent members have carte blanche to do whatever they want without repercussions? That's a scary thought.


Pretty much - part of the gentleman's agreement referred to in reply 590. We and the USSR fomented countless bloody coups, toppling democratically-elected leaders all over the world in the 70s and 80s, and was there recourse? No. The precedent for the UNSC club was set a long time ago.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
The US simply isn´t drowning in Sanctions because of that. Remember when the US was convicted of State Sponsored terrorism, and to pay up for it, and just decided the International Court doesn´t have jurisdiction over international matters? In a normal world that would have defaulted the US Argentina style.......

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

So that means permanent members have carte blanche to do whatever they want without repercussions? That's a scary thought.


Pretty much - part of the gentleman's agreement referred to in reply 590. We and the USSR fomented countless bloody coups, toppling democratically-elected leaders all over the world in the 70s and 80s, and was there recourse? No. The precedent for the UNSC club was set a long time ago.



That's fine. But I hope you never cirticize the US for not intervening if/when China really ramps up the mass slaughter of their own people. China won't even publish their legal execution numbers.


Amnesty and HRW have been on their ass for years. The US takes only a passing interest in such issues, most of us are highly aware of that. $$$ is obviously far more important. Case in point: the Saudi royals have funded madrassas around the Islamic world for decades, citing a need to 'purify' education for Muslims everywhere, yet as soon as China started cracking down on the Uighurs in 2015, with 're-education camps', Saudi had nothing to say about it, and still don't, 'cuz big oil customer.

From 2019: Last week nearly two dozen nations at the U.N. Human Rights Council wrote a letter calling on China to halt it mass detention. In response, Saudi Arabia, Russia and 35 other states wrote a letter commending what they called China’s remarkable achievements in the field of human rights.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1UD36J

This is why it's fantasy that ya'll think anyone is going to hold a major nation to account (for anything).
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos