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lugie
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:39 am

T4thH wrote:
The first (reliable) results of the first immune testing are now live published. Now, means now, news meeting is still live ongoing in TV., Test results are form district "Heinsberg" in Germany, in this case from the city "Gangelt" , where there was the famous big carnival party with more than 200 cases, the first hot spot area in Germany. Trial is performed by University hospital of Bonn.

Some numbers of the first results, they are still working on further results:
>1000 have participated from 400 households. Numbers are statistically adequate for reliable results.
Infection rate is around 15% in Heinsberg district/Gangelt, so 15% is now immune.
Rate, prior identified in Gangelt by virus test: 5% Gangelt is one of the areas globally with highest number of performed tests.
For herd immunity, a 60% rate will be needed.

Death rate is 0.37%

So now we have the first "reliable" death rate.

Source is in German:
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_87665772/coronavirus-news-heinsberg-studie-virologe-stellt-erste-ergebnisse-vor.html



The virologist who led the study in Gangelt, Hendrik Streeck, had an interview with the German newspaper Die Zeit 3 days ago, in which he talked about some preliminary results of that study as it was still ongoing.

One thing that particularly caught my attention as potentially very good news was the following:

Streeck: Wir haben Viren auf Gegenständen oder Türklinken gefunden. Auch einmal im Toilettenwasser, wenn jemand Durchfall hatte. Es ist uns aber in keinem Fall gelungen, daraus intakte Viren anzuzüchten. Das deutet zumindest darauf hin, dass sich die meisten Menschen nicht über Oberflächen anstecken. Wir haben aber jetzt die Methodik verfeinert. Ich bin mir sicher, dass wir dadurch verfeinerte Erkenntnisse erlangen.


In English:
Streeck: We found virus matter on objects or door handles. On one instance in toilet water too, when a patient had diarrhea. However, in none of those cases we were able to grow intact virus cultures out of those samples. This at least hints at the possibility that most people don't get infected via surfaces. We did refine our methodology though, and I'm sure we will get more specific results that way.


source (in German): https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... ie/seite-2

This means that at least in-vitro, virus samples from surfaces have not been able to reproduce.
I'm looking forward to reading the fully released report, hopefully the refined methodology will be able to prove these findings.

This would lay out a good road map to gradually lifting restrictions because it appears to imply that if we do require people to wear masks, reopening society might actually be feasible.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:51 am

I would say, that in the 1950's, that American Industrialists controlled and operated a secret organization to make sure they got the much better end of all deals with countries, particularly in Central & South America. The organization's name: the CIA.

Now that's, I guess the Capitalist version of the Communist "ways and means to control production."

A country should be judged not only for what is does internally, but externally too.

I still believe that America is most benevolent Superpower, all things considered.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:51 am

As there been any attempt, on volunteers that fared well on the first run of the illness, to infect them again, to see if they're really immune ?

speedking : communism has been invented/defined by two philosophers, not power grabbers. People read the communist manifesto and agree with it. Others read Ayn Rand and agree with her. Why is one right and the other wrong ?
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tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:27 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
GDB wrote:
This minor illustration shows just how reckless the POS in the White House is.


Yeah.... not just POS, a Mass-Manslaughter by now..... .13k dead because of him, we may call him Osama bin Trump.

best regards
Thomas


What must you think of those NY Democrats claiming that NYC had a very low chance of being hit by the coronavirus and then encouraged people to ride the subways and attend big parades?


That they where pretty stupid to believe a single bit of federal government guidance on the issue.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
https://www.click2houston.com/news/national/2020/04/08/this-is-when-each-state-is-expected-to-peak-in-coronavirus-cases/?outputType=amp/

So it looks like all states will have hit their peak by the end of the month. Any mayor or governor that does not relieve restrictions after should be cut off from all Federal funds. At that point they are just trying to make the economic situation worse.



You do realize the restrictions are the only reason why the "peaks" will be hit right? What restrictions to roll back and how will be tricky as it will threaten to open up the spread again .


The entire thing was an exercise in futility. It only takes one person to start it back up again. I have a feeling you're not from the US. The majority of Americans will not stand for this much longer. Don't want to risk being exposed? Stay home. It's that simple.


So you can't argue any salient point, and then tell me you think I am not from the US? I think you are an ignorant idiot. and that is all anyone on this board can tell about you.
So take your ignorance and go shove it.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:55 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
So anyway, some good visuals coming out now of how NIH death estimates were revised as success with distancing was observed in the US:

Image

To quote Harvard’s Doc Ding: In public health, if something works ➡️ LESS PEOPLE DIE or NOTHING HAPPENS.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1 ... 12195?s=21



And let's make another thing perfectly clear about this diagram. That number only works if the current levels of social distancing are maintained through August.

This of course will decimate the US economy, and many other world economies.

As can be seen on this board, the folks that never understood math or science, and drink from the fountain of lies supported by certain politicians, are willing to risk higher deaths so that they can get the economy working and keep those politicians that continue to sell snake oil in power. The math and science will tell you that when more people are dying, the economy will fail either way.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:02 pm

casinterest wrote:
The math and science will tell you that when more people are dying, the economy will fail either way.


But maybe after the election....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Scorpio
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:27 pm

T4thH wrote:
The first (reliable) results of the first immune testing are now live published. Now, means now, news meeting is still live ongoing in TV., Test results are form district "Heinsberg" in Germany, in this case from the city "Gangelt" , where there was the famous big carnival party with more than 200 cases, the first hot spot area in Germany. Trial is performed by University hospital of Bonn.

Some numbers of the first results, they are still working on further results:
>1000 have participated from 400 households. Numbers are statistically adequate for reliable results.
Infection rate is around 15% in Heinsberg district/Gangelt, so 15% is now immune.
Rate, prior identified in Gangelt by virus test: 5% Gangelt is one of the areas globally with highest number of performed tests.
For herd immunity, a 60% rate will be needed.

Death rate is 0.37%

So now we have the first "reliable" death rate.

Source is in German:
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_87665772/coronavirus-news-heinsberg-studie-virologe-stellt-erste-ergebnisse-vor.html


Question: is that number based on the number of people who were tested for coronavirus, or on antibody testing? If the former, we can assume the real case fatality rate is lower than 0,37%, as testing will not have caught every case.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:27 pm

zkojq wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:
Frankly I know people that will face life on the street in the next 45-60days.


So have you offered them a bed, right?


Obviously. They are my family.
Whats you point?
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:30 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
GDB wrote:
This minor illustration shows just how reckless the POS in the White House is.


Yeah.... not just POS, a Mass-Manslaughter by now..... .13k dead because of him, we may call him Osama bin Trump.

best regards
Thomas


You have issues or you're being paid to push agenda.
Be lucky you're not in China. We wouldn't hear from you anymore.

tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Yeah.... not just POS, a Mass-Manslaughter by now..... .13k dead because of him, we may call him Osama bin Trump.

best regards
Thomas


What must you think of those NY Democrats claiming that NYC had a very low chance of being hit by the coronavirus and then encouraged people to ride the subways and attend big parades?


That they where pretty stupid to believe a single bit of federal government guidance on the issue.

Best regards
Thomas


That's why they called Trump's China travel restriction as homophobic agenda / racist?
Who's paying you to post? Be honest at least. People ain't stupid as much as you would like that.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:38 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
That's why they called Trump's China travel restriction as homophobic agenda / racist?
.


Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:47 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
That's why they called Trump's China travel restriction as homophobic agenda / racist?
.


Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


Right. Thank you for the answer.

Soooo why were the democrats still going after impeachment and urging people to go out and ride subway, attend gatherings even though they are also briefed by same institutions as the president? Oh and while you are at it, why did China hide the information for two months and jailed the doctor that raised awareness about the virus? You know what and one more to make it wholesome. Why did WHO post information that is completely opposite from the truth?

I would love your educated insight cause so far whoever I ask this for some reason stops responding coherently.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:48 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
That's why they called Trump's China travel restriction as homophobic agenda / racist?
.


Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis? or the entire EU? is the EU racist and bad because they fail to help Italy and Spain? https://www.ft.com/content/03eb9036-a55 ... ace5ea672b

Since you like so much to get into US politics, is the Democratic party racist, homophobic and sexist? after so many candidates they decided to stick with a white male.

You people should stop using race, gender and all the rest to prove points, because in the end it will come back to haunt you.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:49 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


I take it as a rhetorical post. There is no way for any country to block entry to its own citizens.
USA repatriated/ing 50,000 US citizens so far. Are you saying leave them to mercy of other countries.
Citizens are allowed but recommended to self-quarantine for 14 days, schools didn't allow their children to return to school during that period.

I agree screening was a complete failure. Self quarantine was a disaster. If you listen to recordings of CDC conference calls before this was a outbreak in the USA, they were really worried about people with international travel history sitting quietly at home. DTW with two non-stop flights to China didn't have screening capability, even after travel ban.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:50 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
That's why they called Trump's China travel restriction as homophobic agenda / racist?
.


Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


Right. Thank you for the answer.

Soooo why were the democrats still going after impeachment and urging people to go out and ride subway, attend gatherings even though they are also briefed by same institutions as the president? Oh and while you are at it, why did China hide the information for two months and jailed the doctor that raised awareness about the virus?

I would love your educated insight cause so far whoever I ask this for some reason stops responding coherently.


Why do you make it so political? This isn't about the politics of it. But if you must, why did Richard Burr sell stock in February without raising the Alarm? Why did Trump lie to America even though he was getting the same information as Burr. Why did Trump say everything was under control as cases skyrocketed? Why does Trump continue to push unproven medicines?
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:54 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
That's why they called Trump's China travel restriction as homophobic agenda / racist?
.


Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis? or the entire EU? is the EU racist and bad because they fail to help Italy and Spain? https://www.ft.com/content/03eb9036-a55 ... ace5ea672b

Since you like so much to get into US politics, is the Democratic party racist, homophobic and sexist? after so many candidates they decided to stick with a white male.

You people should stop using race, gender and all the rest to prove points, because in the end it will come back to haunt you.


You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:54 pm

casinterest wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


Right. Thank you for the answer.

Soooo why were the democrats still going after impeachment and urging people to go out and ride subway, attend gatherings even though they are also briefed by same institutions as the president? Oh and while you are at it, why did China hide the information for two months and jailed the doctor that raised awareness about the virus?

I would love your educated insight cause so far whoever I ask this for some reason stops responding coherently.


Why do you make it so political? This isn't about the politics of it. But if you must, why did Richard Burr sell stock in February without raising the Alarm? Why did Trump lie to America even though he was getting the same information as Burr. Why did Trump say everything was under control as cases skyrocketed? Why does Trump continue to push unproven medicines?


You still didn't answer the question in my post yet you expect me to answer yours.
How does that work?
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:57 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis? or the entire EU? is the EU racist and bad because they fail to help Italy and Spain? https://www.ft.com/content/03eb9036-a55 ... ace5ea672b

Since you like so much to get into US politics, is the Democratic party racist, homophobic and sexist? after so many candidates they decided to stick with a white male.

You people should stop using race, gender and all the rest to prove points, because in the end it will come back to haunt you.


You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - only US airlines eventually suspended service as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Germany was completely open accepting flights from Italy outbreak regions even though shit storm was already there.
No temperature checking no nothing at arrivals of those planes.
I have family in Germany so don't give me that bull like it was handled correctly lol.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
T4thH
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:57 pm

yonahleung wrote:
T4thH wrote:
The first (reliable) results of the first immune testing are now live published. Now, means now, news meeting is still live ongoing in TV., Test results are form district "Heinsberg" in Germany, in this case from the city "Gangelt" , where there was the famous big carnival party with more than 200 cases, the first hot spot area in Germany. Trial is performed by University hospital of Bonn.

Some numbers of the first results, they are still working on further results:
>1000 have participated from 400 households. Numbers are statistically adequate for reliable results.
Infection rate is around 15% in Heinsberg district/Gangelt, so 15% is now immune.
Rate, prior identified in Gangelt by virus test: 5% Gangelt is one of the areas globally with highest number of performed tests.
For herd immunity, a 60% rate will be needed.

Death rate is 0.37%

So now we have the first "reliable" death rate.

Source is in German:
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_87665772/coronavirus-news-heinsberg-studie-virologe-stellt-erste-ergebnisse-vor.html

This is very surprising. The infection rate is high at 15%. How did they end up with this very high rate of infection in the first place?
Secondly do we have the number of serious cases? This is so different from the situation in Spain or Italy that either the drop-off in Spain or Italy is due to herd immunity or that we are having a very different strain.


Some additional information. Gangelt is a city in district Heinsberg, which was hit first, it has a population of 12.450. One couple with Covid-19 has played superspreader on a carnival party with 300 to 400 people and more than 200 of them got it on this one evening or days later, when several members of a household were on this party and one or more of them got it e.g. (I always have to remind the spring break parties in Florida two or three weeks or so ago, with hundreds of thousands at the not closed beaches for one week, later all going home, and as the universities have closed...further travelling home to their families to every single state, city and village in the eastern half of US. And as they were young, pretty sure 80% or so without symptoms).

Whole district Heinsberg numbers are published, but I have seen no numbers for Gangelt alone: Most other district in Germany are publishing better.
District Heinsberg: population of 254.000
COVID-19 status on 08-Apr-2020, 3 pm:
First confirmed case on 25-Feb-2020
1527 confirmed cases
of them:
- 969 healthy again
- 48 have died
- 510 stated as active cases

How did they end up with this very high rate of infection in the first place? Secondly do we have the number of serious cases?

Numbers, see above, regarding the trial, it is still ongong, seriousness e.g. is part of the analysis, but they are still working on these numbers.

This is so different from the situation in Spain or Italy that either the drop-off in Spain or Italy is due to herd immunity or that we are having a very different strain.

Is it really so different? I believe, it is just out of control in parts of Italy and Spain and the health care system has regional collapsed. In Italy it is even more worse, the local government, on duty of the right populist "Lega Nord" has more than only failed. What they have done, can only be called misconduct.
Source is in German, so use a translator: Yes, if they work hard, it is possible to take care, that the highest number possible get it and will die. But to kill all these vulnerable by misconduct, the most thinkable stupids have to really work as hard as possible.
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Warum-das-Virus-die-Lombardei-so-befaellt-article21694914.html

The "superspreader" in Europe have been Ischgl and the rural villages around in Austria and the northern Italy ski resorts and northern Italy regions, especially Lombardei. This is all the same strain, which has been spread around from there. So there is no miracle strain, which has decided to spare only Germany and another, which has believed, the Germans are so nice guys....
They have performed many more tests in Germany and these early, the health care system is far away from even to be harmed, till now, only one single hospital was over-stressed (hospital in Nuertingen) and Germany has a silly high transport capacity to transport ICU patients with ventilation need by specialized helicopters and specialized rescue cars , to transport the critical cases to the high number of specialized for critical care ICU patients (the university hospitals). And all this is done and regulated according DIN norms, S-guidelines and pandemic plans.

And why the numbers are now going down in Italy, Germany, Spain and so many other countries, because social distancing, curfews and other measurements are doing the job. For the herd immunity, it is still far too early. As we can see in Heinsberg (even Gangelt), one of the two or three districts in Germany, most worse hit: with 15%, they are still far below of herd immunity levels of 60%.

I know, that in Ischgl, there is a immunity test started by Austria government, in Germany several has now started, the biggest will check 100.000 in German, there is one in Bavaria, recently started with 10.000 immunity tests e.g.

This was the first (reliable) one globally, to get fast the first reliable results/numbers, when the other tests will produce numbers in Europe and globally, we will know more.
Last edited by T4thH on Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:59 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
That is an appropriate pandemic response.


Interesting, I remember you telling me how unnecessary was for Trump to close the borders because it was too late and the virus is already community spread.

All it took for some other country besides the US to do the same to believe it was an 'appropriate response'.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3361
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis? or the entire EU? is the EU racist and bad because they fail to help Italy and Spain? https://www.ft.com/content/03eb9036-a55 ... ace5ea672b

Since you like so much to get into US politics, is the Democratic party racist, homophobic and sexist? after so many candidates they decided to stick with a white male.

You people should stop using race, gender and all the rest to prove points, because in the end it will come back to haunt you.


You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Your statement is not even true.

The original travel ban for China applied to ALL foreign nationals. Been to China in last 14 days as a UK citizen? Better wait for 14 days.

As for the LAX-PEK flight, it is operated by Air China. They don't care if there is only 10 pax on the flight.

Oh, and BTW if you hold US passport (it is not just American but basically all non-PRC nationals, HKer/Macanese included) and trying to enter some places in China (Beijing definitely) right now, you are quarantine for 14 days. So who exactly is on those CA flights? I have no clue.
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12514
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:14 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis? or the entire EU? is the EU racist and bad because they fail to help Italy and Spain? https://www.ft.com/content/03eb9036-a55 ... ace5ea672b

Since you like so much to get into US politics, is the Democratic party racist, homophobic and sexist? after so many candidates they decided to stick with a white male.

You people should stop using race, gender and all the rest to prove points, because in the end it will come back to haunt you.


You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Your statement is not even true.

The original travel ban for China applied to ALL foreign nationals. Been to China in last 14 days as a UK citizen? Better wait for 14 days..


Your Statement is not even true. :)

The UK citizen could be an immediate relative of an US citizen or a permanent resident of the US.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11557
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:15 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis? or the entire EU? is the EU racist and bad because they fail to help Italy and Spain? https://www.ft.com/content/03eb9036-a55 ... ace5ea672b

Since you like so much to get into US politics, is the Democratic party racist, homophobic and sexist? after so many candidates they decided to stick with a white male.

You people should stop using race, gender and all the rest to prove points, because in the end it will come back to haunt you.


You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Your statement is not even true.

The original travel ban for China applied to ALL foreign nationals. Been to China in last 14 days as a UK citizen? Better wait for 14 days.

As for the LAX-PEK flight, it is operated by Air China. They don't care if there is only 10 pax on the flight.

Oh, and BTW if you hold US passport (it is not just American but basically all non-PRC nationals, HKer/Macanese included) and trying to enter some places in China (Beijing definitely) right now, you are quarantine for 14 days. So who exactly is on those CA flights? I have no clue.


I stand corrected on the timing, but I was getting at the fact no actual ban had occurred, which is correct.

At a House subcommittee hearing on the coronavirus on Feb. 5, Ron Klain, White House Ebola response coordinator under the Obama administration, took issue with the characterization of the travel restrictions as a travel “ban.”

“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”

“There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health restriction, we have not placed a meaningful public health restriction.”


https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearin ... 9DB3DFD037

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-f ... trictions/

As for the ‘empty’ Air China flights - why are they operating at all? That’s an open question.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
Posts: 10646
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:18 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Your statement is not even true.

The original travel ban for China applied to ALL foreign nationals. Been to China in last 14 days as a UK citizen? Better wait for 14 days.

As for the LAX-PEK flight, it is operated by Air China. They don't care if there is only 10 pax on the flight.

Oh, and BTW if you hold US passport (it is not just American but basically all non-PRC nationals, HKer/Macanese included) and trying to enter some places in China (Beijing definitely) right now, you are quarantine for 14 days. So who exactly is on those CA flights? I have no clue.



I stand corrected on the timing, but I was getting at the fact no actual ban had occurred, which is correct.

At a House subcommittee hearing on the coronavirus on Feb. 5, Ron Klain, White House Ebola response coordinator under the Obama administration, took issue with the characterization of the travel restrictions as a travel “ban.”

“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”

“There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health restriction, we have not placed a meaningful public health restriction.”


https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearin ... 9DB3DFD037

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-f ... trictions/

As for the ‘empty’ Air China flights - why are they operating at all? That’s an open question.

Cargo is till going back and forth, and there is still citizenship travel.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:46 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Your statement is not even true.

The original travel ban for China applied to ALL foreign nationals. Been to China in last 14 days as a UK citizen? Better wait for 14 days..


Your Statement is not even true. :)

The UK citizen could be an immediate relative of an US citizen or a permanent resident of the US.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

Best regards
Thomas


True...I stand corrected :old:

But yes, while there are many exemptions, it is far from true that a non-US nationals can just enter US if they have been to China (or now, numerous countries in Europe).

Aaron747 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere. That is an appropriate pandemic response.

We closed to Chinese nationals but did not stop flights or stop non-Chinese from moving in and out of the US to China - US and Chinese airlines eventually suspended service *on their own* as demand tanked. Even now on flightradar24 there is an LAX-PEK flight operating every other day. That is not in the same ballpark as what Germany did.


Your statement is not even true.

The original travel ban for China applied to ALL foreign nationals. Been to China in last 14 days as a UK citizen? Better wait for 14 days.

As for the LAX-PEK flight, it is operated by Air China. They don't care if there is only 10 pax on the flight.

Oh, and BTW if you hold US passport (it is not just American but basically all non-PRC nationals, HKer/Macanese included) and trying to enter some places in China (Beijing definitely) right now, you are quarantine for 14 days. So who exactly is on those CA flights? I have no clue.


I stand corrected on the timing, but I was getting at the fact no actual ban had occurred, which is correct.

At a House subcommittee hearing on the coronavirus on Feb. 5, Ron Klain, White House Ebola response coordinator under the Obama administration, took issue with the characterization of the travel restrictions as a travel “ban.”

“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”

“There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health restriction, we have not placed a meaningful public health restriction.”


https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearin ... 9DB3DFD037

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-f ... trictions/

As for the ‘empty’ Air China flights - why are they operating at all? That’s an open question.


There is the quarantine that is not exactly enforced also...

BTW, the thing I found the German measures extremely ironic is that they were also the first country that cry when Trump issues the EO banning travel by non-US nationals from most of Western Europe. Well, they are now imposing stricter border measures than the one in US.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Because it was nothing but racist.... that was easy...
Was the border closed? Nope. He only blocked chinese nationals, I guess because Americans can't get Corona or something... and 40k came in from China since.

Best regards
Thomas


Right. Thank you for the answer.

Soooo why were the democrats still going after impeachment and urging people to go out and ride subway, attend gatherings even though they are also briefed by same institutions as the president? Oh and while you are at it, why did China hide the information for two months and jailed the doctor that raised awareness about the virus?

I would love your educated insight cause so far whoever I ask this for some reason stops responding coherently.


Why do you make it so political? This isn't about the politics of it. But if you must, why did Richard Burr sell stock in February without raising the Alarm? Why did Trump lie to America even though he was getting the same information as Burr. Why did Trump say everything was under control as cases skyrocketed? Why does Trump continue to push unproven medicines?


And it's easy to answer....

The president committed a crime, impeachment is the proper thing to do. You don't want to suggest law enforcement stops during Corona, do you?
And, as we know from Co-eds, they already knew something dangerous was coming towards the US, and removing the most incompetent US president of all times could safe many lives if it got out of hand. Just as the governors, they didn't expect Trump had damaged federal institutions to a point where they don't function anymore. Heck, the CDC doesn't know how to make a virus test anymore. The f*cking CDC is that broken!

They understood the team captain was a dumbass, they didn't know he had already taken all the top players out back to shoot them.

For the governors and such, they followed federal guidance, probably underestimating how much damage within the US federal government Trump had already done, and maybe even deluding themselves into believing that he wouldn't lie about stuff that would kill thousands of US citizens. That hope was unwarranted as it turns out.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:55 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Right. Thank you for the answer.

Soooo why were the democrats still going after impeachment and urging people to go out and ride subway, attend gatherings even though they are also briefed by same institutions as the president? Oh and while you are at it, why did China hide the information for two months and jailed the doctor that raised awareness about the virus?

I would love your educated insight cause so far whoever I ask this for some reason stops responding coherently.


Why do you make it so political? This isn't about the politics of it. But if you must, why did Richard Burr sell stock in February without raising the Alarm? Why did Trump lie to America even though he was getting the same information as Burr. Why did Trump say everything was under control as cases skyrocketed? Why does Trump continue to push unproven medicines?


And it's easy to answer....

The president committed a crime, impeachment is the proper thing to do. You don't want to suggest law enforcement stops during Corona, do you?
And, as we know from Co-eds, they already knew something dangerous was coming towards the US, and removing the most incompetent US president of all times could safe many lives if it got out of hand. Just as the governors, they didn't expect Trump had damaged federal institutions to a point where they don't function anymore. Heck, the CDC doesn't know how to make a virus test anymore. The f*cking CDC is that broken!

They understood the team captain was a dumbass, they didn't know he had already taken all the top players out back to shoot them.

For the governors and such, they followed federal guidance, probably underestimating how much damage within the US federal government Trump had already done, and maybe even deluding themselves into believing that he wouldn't lie about stuff that would kill thousands of US citizens. That hope was unwarranted as it turns out.

Best regards
Thomas


At this point I am sure you are not living in the us.
What crime? Proof please not hearsay.
IF the opposition was so scared what he can do to the country why did they do same thing by ignoring what is coming?
What you say should trigger a opposite action from them which not only didn't happen they actually pushed in same way. So who's the bigger idiot if you want to put it this way? The actual idiot or the one that follows him/her and enables same behavior with intensified message??
As for the CDC tests... I'm sure you would LOVE if USA would use the ones manufactured in China that throw 70% false negatives both ways which now makes making any real estimates in several EU countries absolutely impossible. And they had two months in advance and access to all preliminary data to make them. Yeah, those incompetent fools from CDC! rofl.
True Colors never fade.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:11 pm

There is a saying that hindsight is 20/20, if someone had done something different then by the 'butterfly affect' we wouldn't be in the grip of the Corvid-19 pandemic, but that is too simplistic.

No one wants to take the blame for mistakes or decisions made for short term economic and political reasons. Yes, we can blame China, WHO, Pres. Trump, European and other national leaders, regional/state leaders, tourists, public health and economic 'experts', everyone has their favorite scapegoat. What we must do now and in the near future is to take the most effective actions to deal with it, to hold down the need for hospitalizations and deaths, yet not put the world in a mass economic Depression worry about blame later. That is a very difficult balance with pressure from all sides.

There will be 1000's of books, public health, medical, mental and psychological health, political and economic studies on this pandemic, many will be 'blamed' and some will want blood revenge for their part in it. Better would be reform WHO, encourage transparency as to public health, have robust public health and medical care structures and find ways to prevent or reduce the risk of another pandemic.
 
T4thH
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:18 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Why do you make it so political? This isn't about the politics of it. But if you must, why did Richard Burr sell stock in February without raising the Alarm? Why did Trump lie to America even though he was getting the same information as Burr. Why did Trump say everything was under control as cases skyrocketed? Why does Trump continue to push unproven medicines?


And it's easy to answer....

The president committed a crime, impeachment is the proper thing to do. You don't want to suggest law enforcement stops during Corona, do you?
And, as we know from Co-eds, they already knew something dangerous was coming towards the US, and removing the most incompetent US president of all times could safe many lives if it got out of hand. Just as the governors, they didn't expect Trump had damaged federal institutions to a point where they don't function anymore. Heck, the CDC doesn't know how to make a virus test anymore. The f*cking CDC is that broken!

They understood the team captain was a dumbass, they didn't know he had already taken all the top players out back to shoot them.

For the governors and such, they followed federal guidance, probably underestimating how much damage within the US federal government Trump had already done, and maybe even deluding themselves into believing that he wouldn't lie about stuff that would kill thousands of US citizens. That hope was unwarranted as it turns out.

Best regards
Thomas


At this point I am sure you are not living in the us.
What crime? Proof please not hearsay.
IF the opposition was so scared what he can do to the country why did they do same thing by ignoring what is coming?
What you say should trigger a opposite action from them which not only didn't happen they actually pushed in same way. So who's the bigger idiot if you want to put it this way? The actual idiot or the one that follows him/her and enables same behavior with intensified message??
As for the CDC tests... I'm sure you would LOVE if USA would use the ones manufactured in China that throw 70% false negatives both ways which now makes making any real estimates in several EU countries absolutely impossible.
True Colors never fade.



Just to come back to one point. Why are you (all in this discussion) mixing news, so they fit to someones statement?
About which tests you (all) are talking about? Immunity tests or the COVID PCR tests?

For the COVID-19 PCR tests, to identify an active infection, just use one of the by WHO validated tests, the first was already validated on 17-Jan-2020 and most of the world is using it now. Everyone is allowed to produce this test, it is free to produce and use, no one has to pay anything to anyone. And this test is not really expensive, in Germany it is reimbursed to the laboratories with around 55 € each. Of course, a country is allowed to develop and produce an own test, but if it does not work, their failure is in their own responsibility and in no one else. So no one else shall be blamed.

For immunity tests, there is the responsibility to validate them first. If someone is so stupid to buy non validated tests; sorry, if someone is so stupid....
The first validated immunity tests are now available and in use; now means NOW.

But why you (all) are mixing the COVID 19 PCR tests with the immunity tests? Why you (some) are trying to explain the failure of the CDC to do the job accordingly with the failure of others.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:19 pm

In other news, as a result of COVID-19 lockdown in India, the Himalayas are reportedly visible from 100km away in Punjab for the first time in 30 years.

Image

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1 ... 06209?s=21

Mother Gaia is probably enjoying this little respite from our usual activities.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zkojq
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
And let's make another thing perfectly clear about this diagram. That number only works if the current levels of social distancing are maintained through August.


We're in a war and to win this war all that the average person has to do is stay home as much as possible and minimise contacts. Unfortunately, as seen in this thread, even doing that is impossible without a lot of bitchin' and moanin' about how unfair everything is.

casinterest wrote:
As can be seen on this board, the folks that never understood math or science, and drink from the fountain of lies supported by certain politicians, are willing to risk higher deaths so that they can get the economy working and keep those politicians that continue to sell snake oil in power.


See I've changed my mind on this in recent days. Although for many it's definitely about a deep state conspiracy, I think there's something deeper to it. If Hillary was in the White House would the same people be willing to end the lockdown prematurely? Absolutely - probably more so.

It's got nothing to do with politicians specifically and all to do with defying authority to pretend to be brave/edgy. That's why you see OAN presenter bloke prancing about livestreaming his very noble and brave illegal trip to get a haircut. He thinks he's Paul Revere. Moreover it's also about anti-intellectualism and defying accepted wisdom "I know better than an epidemiologist". You get the same with people opposed to AGW "I know better than climate scientists - there's no global warming and if there was it will be great because then it won't be cold in winter".

It's really no different than a teenage edgelord putting a dishwasher soap pod in their mouth to prove how defiant and proud they are. Or Coal-Rolling for people slightly older.

PixelPilot wrote:
zkojq wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:
Frankly I know people that will face life on the street in the next 45-60days.


So have you offered them a bed, right?


Obviously.


Good. :thumbsup:

PixelPilot wrote:
Oh and while you are at it, why did China hide the information for two months and jailed the doctor that raised awareness about the virus?


Why are you expecting us to defend China?

AirWorthy99 wrote:
So is Germany racist for closing the borders during this COVID19 crisis?


What's racist about closing the border to all non citizens/residents?

dtw2hyd wrote:
Self quarantine was a disaster. If you listen to recordings of CDC conference calls before this was a outbreak in the USA, they were really worried about people with international travel history sitting quietly at home.


That's why you need the Police doing spot checks for enforcement. I had two visits from them after I arrived home from overseas, checking that I was at one of my specified addresses. Also had lots of calls to my landline from the Ministry Of Health checking that I was home. A friend of mine is a police officer and she told me that significant resources were being put into spot checks.

Again aggressive, proactive policy works. But yeah if you just tell people to self quarantine and never bother checking, I can see why that would be a disaster.

Aaron747 wrote:
You sure like to cherry-pick however convenient for the topic. Germany closed ALL borders to everywhere.


But I thought you had to leave the EU to close your borders! :duck:

PixelPilot wrote:
[This is the definition of trolling:
Social media troll is someone who purposely says something controversial in order to get a rise out of other users.


Like people who downplay the dangerousness of a virus to be edgy... :duck:
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zkojq
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:33 pm

Horror story coming out of England:
Three NHS nurses who had to wear bin bags for PPE test positive for coronavirus

Frontline staff at Northwick Hospital in Harrow, north London, claim they had to use makeshift Protective Personal Equipment (PPE) due to severe shortages of gloves, aprons and footwear.

Photographs circulated last month showing the nurses wearing clinical waste bags on their hands, feet and head as emergency rooms filled with sick patients.

All three nurses pictured in the image were diagnosed with coronavirus at a North London testing centre last week, the Telegraph has reported.

Staff say they are at high risk of contracting the disease from sick patients because bosses have failed to provide them with proper PPE.


Image

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/t ... n-21837238

I love how you always criticize me but drink up whatever the so called experts tell you. The same ones who said we would only need to lay low for two weeks. They've gotten many things wrong but I don't see you tearing into them. The WHO is corrupt and it's not just the US calling them out.


Yes, I much prefer the advice of hyper-partisan armchair experts over epidemiologists.

Incredible. Do you think Lenin or Stalin were just poor men? They also killed ten times more people than Hitler.


As awful as communism is, Russians were far better off under the Soviet Union than they ever were under the Tsars. If you've ever been to Russia (I can tell that you haven't) and speak to a regular Russian who's lived through the Soviet Union, they'll tell you they much preferred the Soviet Union to Perestroika and Capitalism. I spoke to a bunch in a place called Strelna last year and all of them vehemently preferred the Soviet Union - more surprising to me than it should have been.

Communism has never been for the people but only for power. This is exactly what is happening in China. Communism.


aaaaand as has been discussed here, China hasn't been remotely communist for 25 years. The Chinese ironically enough are better capitalists than westerners ever were. And the average Chinese person will give a completely opposing answer about the direction of their country since 1990 than a Russian would.

The communists also pose as some kind of intellectuals. Believe in science.


Meanwhile the far right, is always against intellectuals and science....

Aesma wrote:
People read the communist manifesto and agree with it. Others read Ayn Rand and agree with her. Why is one right and the other wrong ?


Ayn Rand is Philosopher In Chief to the morally bankrupt. Karl Marx is Philosopher In Chief to the economically bankrupt. :smile:
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DocLightning
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:47 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
That leads to a layman´s question...... a friend of mine gets sulfasalazine for her arthritis and she asked if that is a bit like hydroxychloroquine. My instant reaction is nope. But i have no medical knowledge to dismiss that, but i still looked the stuff up. Turns out both are disease-modifying antirheumatic drug, and Wiki says hydroxychoroquine works by "TNF-alpha, induce apoptosis of inflammatory cells and decrease chemotaxis" and for the sulfasalazine "Suppression of IL-1 & TNF-alpha, induce apoptosis of inflammatory cells and increase chemotactic factors".... which makes me wonder... why is the one seriously considered as a Covid-19 support treatment, but the other isn´t. Who to ask on here if not you.

best regards
Thomas


I also take SSZ. The answer is that 1) it is not an immunosuppressant. 2) It doesn't have an effect like hydroxychloroquine (hydroxychloroquine is thought to reduce acidification in the endosomes where the coronavirus is taken after it binds to the cell surface, and that acidification triggers the viral membrane fusion that releases the viral endocapsid with the RNA into the cytoplasm). 3) Actually, nobody knows how SSZ works. It's thought to maybe modulate the gut microbiome (being a sulfa analog) but the precise mechanism by which it exerts its effect is still not well understood.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:49 pm

DocLightning wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
That leads to a layman´s question...... a friend of mine gets sulfasalazine for her arthritis and she asked if that is a bit like hydroxychloroquine. My instant reaction is nope. But i have no medical knowledge to dismiss that, but i still looked the stuff up. Turns out both are disease-modifying antirheumatic drug, and Wiki says hydroxychoroquine works by "TNF-alpha, induce apoptosis of inflammatory cells and decrease chemotaxis" and for the sulfasalazine "Suppression of IL-1 & TNF-alpha, induce apoptosis of inflammatory cells and increase chemotactic factors".... which makes me wonder... why is the one seriously considered as a Covid-19 support treatment, but the other isn´t. Who to ask on here if not you.

best regards
Thomas


I also take SSZ. The answer is that 1) it is not an immunosuppressant. 2) It doesn't have an effect like hydroxychloroquine (hydroxychloroquine is thought to reduce acidification in the endosomes where the coronavirus is taken after it binds to the cell surface, and that acidification triggers the viral membrane fusion that releases the viral endocapsid with the RNA into the cytoplasm). 3) Actually, nobody knows how SSZ works. It's thought to maybe modulate the gut microbiome (being a sulfa analog) but the precise mechanism by which it exerts its effect is still not well understood.


Now that gives me plenty to read up on, thanks.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:49 pm

zkojq wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
zkojq wrote:


So have you offered them a bed, right?


Obviously.


Good. :thumbsup:



So what was your point?
You were pretty specific but you cut my question out of your reply and never answered it.
I'm interested.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:54 pm

Interesting read on Covid-19 and the Genealogy behind it.


Most of the NY cases came from Europe. Not China.
https://news.yahoo.com/most-york-corona ... 29916.html

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at NYU Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
Interesting read on Covid-19 and the Genealogy behind it.


Most of the NY cases came from Europe. Not China.
https://news.yahoo.com/most-york-corona ... 29916.html

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at NYU Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.


Shouldn't surprise anyone.
Over 3 million Italians live in NY + millions of people of other EU nationalities.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:35 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Interesting read on Covid-19 and the Genealogy behind it.


Most of the NY cases came from Europe. Not China.
https://news.yahoo.com/most-york-corona ... 29916.html

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at NYU Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.


Shouldn't surprise anyone.
Over 3 million Italians live in NY + millions of people of other EU nationalities.


Possibly, but the issue is that the first US cases were on the west coast. Those cases in theory should have caused more issues in the East than the European cases.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... nts-2020-3

Jan-20 First US case First US case is reported: a 35-year-old man in Snohomish County, Washington.
Feb-21 is when Italy Outbreak began,
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:38 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Interesting read on Covid-19 and the Genealogy behind it.


Most of the NY cases came from Europe. Not China.
https://news.yahoo.com/most-york-corona ... 29916.html

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at NYU Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.


Shouldn't surprise anyone.
Over 3 million Italians live in NY + millions of people of other EU nationalities.


This is like saying the milk came from Walmart, not the farm.

It started in China. Then spread through many places, including Europe.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:45 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Interesting read on Covid-19 and the Genealogy behind it.


Most of the NY cases came from Europe. Not China.
https://news.yahoo.com/most-york-corona ... 29916.html



Shouldn't surprise anyone.
Over 3 million Italians live in NY + millions of people of other EU nationalities.


This is like saying the milk came from Walmart, not the farm.

It started in China. Then spread through many places, including Europe.



But it mutated in Europe.

Also remember, no one has found the actual first case person. They just know of the first people diagnosed. It is an interesting search for how the virus came about.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:06 pm

One Korean doctor said it is as if the virus left China is not the same when it landed in Italy. My feeling this particular mutation is most deadly.

He also said China finds patient zero is very important to identify how it mutates. I have no clue what he was saying.

In general countries deployed real detectives to trace back controlled lot better that those left it to community spread.
All posts are just opinions.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:09 pm

Apparently it is US made so not sure what's the fuss all about ;)
It's like I'm reading some of the posters here. Obviously not word by word but narrative is interesting.
Last 3 paragraphs show one sided information flow. China is smart. Gotta give them that but this will bite them in the ass in the long run.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... rus-164652
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
So anyway, some good visuals coming out now of how NIH death estimates were revised as success with distancing was observed in the US:

Image

To quote Harvard’s Doc Ding: In public health, if something works ➡️ LESS PEOPLE DIE or NOTHING HAPPENS.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1 ... 12195?s=21



And let's make another thing perfectly clear about this diagram. That number only works if the current levels of social distancing are maintained through August.

This of course will decimate the US economy, and many other world economies.

As can be seen on this board, the folks that never understood math or science, and drink from the fountain of lies supported by certain politicians, are willing to risk higher deaths so that they can get the economy working and keep those politicians that continue to sell snake oil in power. The math and science will tell you that when more people are dying, the economy will fail either way.

Sorry, but at some point depression, mass impoverishment and destitution will kill and inflict greater hardship than the virus itself, and discussion of that inflection point is not some exercise in intellectual deficiency. If by social distancing you mean lockdowns, then I'm just going to tell you right now to go ahead and forget about thinking those will be able to be maintained until August. We're already seeing the flickers of civil unrest in Italy after only two months. Lockdowns are not a sustainable long-term strategy.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:19 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
So anyway, some good visuals coming out now of how NIH death estimates were revised as success with distancing was observed in the US:

Image

To quote Harvard’s Doc Ding: In public health, if something works ➡️ LESS PEOPLE DIE or NOTHING HAPPENS.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1 ... 12195?s=21



And let's make another thing perfectly clear about this diagram. That number only works if the current levels of social distancing are maintained through August.

This of course will decimate the US economy, and many other world economies.

As can be seen on this board, the folks that never understood math or science, and drink from the fountain of lies supported by certain politicians, are willing to risk higher deaths so that they can get the economy working and keep those politicians that continue to sell snake oil in power. The math and science will tell you that when more people are dying, the economy will fail either way.

Sorry, but at some point depression, mass impoverishment and destitution will kill and inflict greater hardship than the virus itself, and discussion of that inflection point is not some exercise in intellectual deficiency. If by social distancing you mean lockdowns, then I'm just going to tell you right now to go ahead and forget about thinking those will be able to be maintained until August. We're already seeing the flickers of civil unrest in Italy after only two months. Lockdowns are not a sustainable long-term strategy.

There are going to need to be plans in place to deal with the sick, mass mobilizations of doctors and nurses that are not doing elective surgeries for the time being, and an allocation of emergency equipment ready to take on the extra load should we lessen the quarantines.
Right now we don't have that, and without it, we are only going to create greater problems with people dying.

I get the fact that some want to work while others may die, it is usually a normal fact of life, but at this point the infrastructure is not there to support a great lifting of restrictions. Sure we can life restrictions somewhere at a limited rate, but what good is it, if we have to shut everything down again one month later because the virus overwhelms our resources?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


And let's make another thing perfectly clear about this diagram. That number only works if the current levels of social distancing are maintained through August.

This of course will decimate the US economy, and many other world economies.

As can be seen on this board, the folks that never understood math or science, and drink from the fountain of lies supported by certain politicians, are willing to risk higher deaths so that they can get the economy working and keep those politicians that continue to sell snake oil in power. The math and science will tell you that when more people are dying, the economy will fail either way.

Sorry, but at some point depression, mass impoverishment and destitution will kill and inflict greater hardship than the virus itself, and discussion of that inflection point is not some exercise in intellectual deficiency. If by social distancing you mean lockdowns, then I'm just going to tell you right now to go ahead and forget about thinking those will be able to be maintained until August. We're already seeing the flickers of civil unrest in Italy after only two months. Lockdowns are not a sustainable long-term strategy.

There are going to need to be plans in place to deal with the sick, mass mobilizations of doctors and nurses that are not doing elective surgeries for the time being, and an allocation of emergency equipment ready to take on the extra load should we lessen the quarantines.
Right now we don't have that, and without it, we are only going to create greater problems with people dying.

I get the fact that some want to work while others may die, it is usually a normal fact of life, but at this point the infrastructure is not there to support a great lifting of restrictions. Sure we can life restrictions somewhere at a limited rate, but what good is it, if we have to shut everything down again one month later because the virus overwhelms our resources?

No one is suggesting (at least not myself) that we don't also take adequate measures to beef up the healthcare system for better preparation in dealing with ongoing cases. I'm not suggesting haphazardly lifting restrictions without a plan. I think another few weeks is realistic to keep current restrictions in place while more standard and serology testing is spooled up as well as supply lines for critical medical equipment. But persistent 3-5 months of lockdown is the most roughshod kind of bandaid for this crisis with great likelihood of causing even more harm...eventually you risk undermining the remaining economy to sustain the fight against the virus.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:07 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Sorry, but at some point depression, mass impoverishment and destitution will kill and inflict greater hardship than the virus itself, and discussion of that inflection point is not some exercise in intellectual deficiency. If by social distancing you mean lockdowns, then I'm just going to tell you right now to go ahead and forget about thinking those will be able to be maintained until August. We're already seeing the flickers of civil unrest in Italy after only two months. Lockdowns are not a sustainable long-term strategy.

There are going to need to be plans in place to deal with the sick, mass mobilizations of doctors and nurses that are not doing elective surgeries for the time being, and an allocation of emergency equipment ready to take on the extra load should we lessen the quarantines.
Right now we don't have that, and without it, we are only going to create greater problems with people dying.

I get the fact that some want to work while others may die, it is usually a normal fact of life, but at this point the infrastructure is not there to support a great lifting of restrictions. Sure we can life restrictions somewhere at a limited rate, but what good is it, if we have to shut everything down again one month later because the virus overwhelms our resources?

No one is suggesting (at least not myself) that we don't also take adequate measures to beef up the healthcare system for better preparation in dealing with ongoing cases. I'm not suggesting haphazardly lifting restrictions without a plan. I think another few weeks is realistic to keep current restrictions in place while more standard and serology testing is spooled up as well as supply lines for critical medical equipment. But persistent 3-5 months of lockdown is the most roughshod kind of bandaid for this crisis with great likelihood of causing even more harm...eventually you risk undermining the remaining economy to sustain the fight against the virus.


I don't disagree, but currently there are far too many politicians pushing for "Opening" the economy with no plan. Only two weeks ago,Trump wanted it all opened back for Easter. There is a lot of logistics involved, and there needs to be some plans in place for recognizing and implementing a curtailing of that activity should it get out of hand.

Right now we still have growth rates in many states of 8-10% a day in cases, and that is just going to keep stretching various hospitals. If we can get that growth down to 3-5% I think we will have a better handle on how to move forward .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:13 pm

T4thH wrote:
yonahleung wrote:
T4thH wrote:
The first (reliable) results of the first immune testing are now live published. Now, means now, news meeting is still live ongoing in TV., Test results are form district "Heinsberg" in Germany, in this case from the city "Gangelt" , where there was the famous big carnival party with more than 200 cases, the first hot spot area in Germany. Trial is performed by University hospital of Bonn.

Some numbers of the first results, they are still working on further results:
>1000 have participated from 400 households. Numbers are statistically adequate for reliable results.
Infection rate is around 15% in Heinsberg district/Gangelt, so 15% is now immune.
Rate, prior identified in Gangelt by virus test: 5% Gangelt is one of the areas globally with highest number of performed tests.
For herd immunity, a 60% rate will be needed.

Death rate is 0.37%

So now we have the first "reliable" death rate.

Source is in German:
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_87665772/coronavirus-news-heinsberg-studie-virologe-stellt-erste-ergebnisse-vor.html

This is very surprising. The infection rate is high at 15%. How did they end up with this very high rate of infection in the first place?
Secondly do we have the number of serious cases? This is so different from the situation in Spain or Italy that either the drop-off in Spain or Italy is due to herd immunity or that we are having a very different strain.


Some additional information. Gangelt is a city in district Heinsberg, which was hit first, it has a population of 12.450. One couple with Covid-19 has played superspreader on a carnival party with 300 to 400 people and more than 200 of them got it on this one evening or days later, when several members of a household were on this party and one or more of them got it e.g. (I always have to remind the spring break parties in Florida two or three weeks or so ago, with hundreds of thousands at the not closed beaches for one week, later all going home, and as the universities have closed...further travelling home to their families to every single state, city and village in the eastern half of US. And as they were young, pretty sure 80% or so without symptoms).

Whole district Heinsberg numbers are published, but I have seen no numbers for Gangelt alone: Most other district in Germany are publishing better.
District Heinsberg: population of 254.000
COVID-19 status on 08-Apr-2020, 3 pm:
First confirmed case on 25-Feb-2020
1527 confirmed cases
of them:
- 969 healthy again
- 48 have died
- 510 stated as active cases

How did they end up with this very high rate of infection in the first place? Secondly do we have the number of serious cases?

Numbers, see above, regarding the trial, it is still ongong, seriousness e.g. is part of the analysis, but they are still working on these numbers.

This is so different from the situation in Spain or Italy that either the drop-off in Spain or Italy is due to herd immunity or that we are having a very different strain.

Is it really so different? I believe, it is just out of control in parts of Italy and Spain and the health care system has regional collapsed. In Italy it is even more worse, the local government, on duty of the right populist "Lega Nord" has more than only failed. What they have done, can only be called misconduct.
Source is in German, so use a translator: Yes, if they work hard, it is possible to take care, that the highest number possible get it and will die. But to kill all these vulnerable by misconduct, the most thinkable stupids have to really work as hard as possible.
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Warum-das-Virus-die-Lombardei-so-befaellt-article21694914.html

The "superspreader" in Europe have been Ischgl and the rural villages around in Austria and the northern Italy ski resorts and northern Italy regions, especially Lombardei. This is all the same strain, which has been spread around from there. So there is no miracle strain, which has decided to spare only Germany and another, which has believed, the Germans are so nice guys....
They have performed many more tests in Germany and these early, the health care system is far away from even to be harmed, till now, only one single hospital was over-stressed (hospital in Nuertingen) and Germany has a silly high transport capacity to transport ICU patients with ventilation need by specialized helicopters and specialized rescue cars , to transport the critical cases to the high number of specialized for critical care ICU patients (the university hospitals). And all this is done and regulated according DIN norms, S-guidelines and pandemic plans.

And why the numbers are now going down in Italy, Germany, Spain and so many other countries, because social distancing, curfews and other measurements are doing the job. For the herd immunity, it is still far too early. As we can see in Heinsberg (even Gangelt), one of the two or three districts in Germany, most worse hit: with 15%, they are still far below of herd immunity levels of 60%.

I know, that in Ischgl, there is a immunity test started by Austria government, in Germany several has now started, the biggest will check 100.000 in German, there is one in Bavaria, recently started with 10.000 immunity tests e.g.

This was the first (reliable) one globally, to get fast the first reliable results/numbers, when the other tests will produce numbers in Europe and globally, we will know more.

A similar study was started in Colorado, although processing has been held up.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/unprecede ... d=70051045

Hopefully more of these testing exercises will bring further clarity to the situation.
 
T4thH
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:17 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
One Korean doctor said it is as if the virus left China is not the same when it landed in Italy. My feeling this particular mutation is most deadly.

He also said China finds patient zero is very important to identify how it mutates. I have no clue what he was saying.

In general countries deployed real detectives to trace back controlled lot better that those left it to community spread.

First,the "strain", which is there in Italy, is the same as in the rest of Europe. And as now the first results of the first statistically reliable immunity trial in district Heinsberg (city of Gangelt, where ther was the first outbreak) in Germany, performed by University hospital Bonn, has shown, the death rate of COVID-19 infected is around 0.37%.

In the "Lombardei" in Italy, the officials/regional government have just most possible miserably failed and it has to be called misconduct. "Lega Nord", now called "Lega Salvini Premier", so far right populists, so as regular, prone for conspiracies, believer in herd immunity, "it is a flue", have had the great idea, to send the "confirmed light COVID-19 cases" into 400 nursing homes for elderly and additional forbidding the nursing home staff to wear face masks, not to fear the elderly and the guests....and to lay of these staff, who have complained. Faking documents to hide the own failures e.g.
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Warum-das-Virus-die-Lombardei-so-befaellt-article21694914.html

There is a reason, for the high number of death in just one region in Italy, for this region, it is easy to explain.

Ischgl in Austria, there few have just performed misconduct and hiding news of first cases, "not to harm the business".

Why there are so high number of cases and death in western half of France and in Spain(Madrid) is more difficult to explain, also for France, the roots can be found in Italy and Ischgl.
Till now, what I have read and seen, there is no "more deadly" COVID-19 strain, mutation rate of Coronavirus strains are even slow. There have been till now only few mutations and it is discussed if one "strain" is able to faster spread....in my opinion, to call these differences "strains" is still just wrong, as these are still near identical.

In general countries deployed real detectives to trace back controlled lot better that those left it to community spread/

Yes, here you are right. Countries, who have done early high number of tests, have tried to trace back the infection chains and have done additional steps like social distancing e.g. seems to have performed much better.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:09 pm

Covid-19 reached a morbid mark yesterday. It is now the #1 killer per day of citizens in the USA.

According to a graph

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1727839/

published Tuesday by Dr. Maria Danilychev, who practices in San Diego, COVID-19 is the cause of 1,970 deaths in the U.S. per day. Just last week, COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death, averaging around 748 deaths per day, but as the virus has continued to spread, the increase in daily deaths have followed. In comparison to COVID-19 fatalities, 1,774 deaths are attributed to heart disease and 1,641 to cancer.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health ... r-BB12o7aQ


Looks on track to beat out heart disease and cancer again today.

//edit, in looking at the graph, it actually happened earlier this week.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
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Re: Coronavirus Non Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:11 pm

casinterest wrote:
Covid-19 reached a morbid mark yesterday. It is now the #1 killer per day of citizens in the USA.

According to a graph

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1727839/

published Tuesday by Dr. Maria Danilychev, who practices in San Diego, COVID-19 is the cause of 1,970 deaths in the U.S. per day. Just last week, COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death, averaging around 748 deaths per day, but as the virus has continued to spread, the increase in daily deaths have followed. In comparison to COVID-19 fatalities, 1,774 deaths are attributed to heart disease and 1,641 to cancer.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health ... r-BB12o7aQ


Looks on track to beat out heart disease and cancer again today.



I wish people would understand that. My business has dealing that are considered essential so I’m out there every day and I see a increased numbers of cars on the road every single day.
This is not gonna end well and I have a feeling we will get mandatory shutdowns at some point.

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