petertenthije wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

We are currently dealing with a crisis caused by the lack of transparency and honesty of a communist dictatorship.

I won't deny the Chinese should have been more transparant.

But where you not one of the guys that was of the opinion the captain of the TR should have kept quiet? Transparancy much?

No one said he should remain silent. He should have used the correct classified channels to express his problem thru Pearl or direct to the Pentagon, NOT gone direct UNCLASS.

GF

Aaron747 wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

The conclusions of this opinion piece are not off-base but everyone in a policy-only piece wants to forget that there are economic reasons China became the major supplier of pharma supplies for US companies - doing so was a symbiotic relationship that made a few Chinese very rich and certainly massively enhanced the wealth of US investors and pharma executives. Should the people who got wealthier off this be on the hook too? It’s not like they didn’t know what was happening in terms of domestic self sufficiency - they only had eyes for the cost savings.

I agree, corporate America, Washington elites and Wall street have gotten wealthier as a result of this. I sincerely hope things start to shift away from China, after this disaster we are living.

Americans who had pharma in their 401k have not been complaining about this either - until the chickens came home to roost. But you didn't answer my question - are the wealthiest investors and pharma execs on the hook too, or only China should have to pay?

Everyone should.

Kiwirob wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

The conclusions of this opinion piece are not off-base but everyone in a policy-only piece wants to forget that there are economic reasons China became the major supplier of pharma supplies for US companies - doing so was a symbiotic relationship that made a few Chinese very rich and certainly massively enhanced the wealth of US investors and pharma executives. Should the people who got wealthier off this be on the hook too? It’s not like they didn’t know what was happening in terms of domestic self sufficiency - they only had eyes for the cost savings.

I agree, corporate America, Washington elites and Wall street have gotten wealthier as a result of this. I sincerely hope things start to shift away from China, after this disaster we are living.

So it's ok for corporate America, Washington elites and Wall St to basically screw everyone and make out like bandits, but instead of retrieving that ill-gotten wealth you want to punish China? Remember it was corporate America, Washington elites and Wall St who sent offshore as much industry as they could to China, it's not China's fault that these actors were more interested in lining there own pockets than supporting the very same people that made them wealthy and put them in there positions of power in the first instance. Instead of looking at important issues like these Americans are blinded by race relations and the 2nd Amendment issues which keep them divided and stops them from thinking about what corporate America, Washington elites and Wall St have done to them.

You should have read better what I wrote. I am against corporate America, Washington elites and Wall street and everyone to make money off from this communist dictatorship that wants to alter negatively the world in their favor and spread their agenda at the cost of human freedom and innocent lives.

Don't get it why you need to rush on attacking me if you don't read well what I said.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

I agree, corporate America, Washington elites and Wall street have gotten wealthier as a result of this. I sincerely hope things start to shift away from China, after this disaster we are living.

Americans who had pharma in their 401k have not been complaining about this either - until the chickens came home to roost. But you didn't answer my question - are the wealthiest investors and pharma execs on the hook too, or only China should have to pay?

Everyone should.

How will that be enforced? We have a Wall Street stooge as Treasury Secretary for the 4th consecutive administration (Lloyd Bentsen under Bush 41 and a little of Clinton's 1st term was the last non-Goldman Sachs TS, and Tim Geithner was a CFR/IMF alum). And this POTUS certainly won't go after them because he's heavily in debt and obviously fears bankers from his past comments and inability to secure loans with major US banks since the late 1990s.

Aaron747 wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Americans who had pharma in their 401k have not been complaining about this either - until the chickens came home to roost. But you didn't answer my question - are the wealthiest investors and pharma execs on the hook too, or only China should have to pay?

Everyone should.

How will that be enforced? We have a Wall Street stooge as Treasury Secretary for the 4th consecutive administration (Lloyd Bentsen under Bush 41 and a little of Clinton's 1st term was the last non-Goldman Sachs TS, and Tim Geithner was a CFR/IMF alum). And this POTUS certainly won't go after them because he's heavily in debt and obviously fears bankers from his past comments and inability to secure loans with major US banks since the late 1990s.

Don't know, but I think if anyone has stood up to China it has been Trump, despite having members of his administration that have also benefited, despite all of that Trump has been the only president to stand up to China, and I am sure you can't say the contrary. He will need to be more forceful and if that means putting Peter Navarro in higher places, so be it.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Everyone should.

How will that be enforced? We have a Wall Street stooge as Treasury Secretary for the 4th consecutive administration (Lloyd Bentsen under Bush 41 and a little of Clinton's 1st term was the last non-Goldman Sachs TS, and Tim Geithner was a CFR/IMF alum). And this POTUS certainly won't go after them because he's heavily in debt and obviously fears bankers from his past comments and inability to secure loans with major US banks since the late 1990s.

Don't know, but I think if anyone has stood up to China it has been Trump, despite having members of his administration that have also benefited, despite all of that Trump has been the only president to stand up to China, and I am sure you can't say the contrary. He will need to be more forceful and if that means putting Peter Navarro in higher places, so be it.

I didn't mention China in that post once - I'm talking about getting Wall Street / pharma executives and related investors to pay. WS interests will never allow it, and both Mnuchin and 45's son in law certainly won't go for that either. There is no answer because it's impossible short of a huge popular uprising.

You do realize Wall Street’s money you want is my (and everybody else's) retirement, their businesses’ investment capital, college endowment funds? Shoot us in the head, not the foot, please.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

You do realize Wall Street’s money you want is my (and everybody else's) retirement, their businesses’ investment capital, college endowment funds? Shoot us in the head, not the foot, please.

I assume AirWorthy knows that, but we should ask - after all his response was 'everyone (involved) should' pay.

Can't find the thread about making "China pay" so this one feels most appropriate, better than the COVID19 one.

China was already in the process of turning its industry and services towards its own population. Officially I mean, I have no idea how it was going in practice.

So some western companies shifting some production back to their homeland shouldn't make much of a difference.

If a new equilibrium where a bit less stuff is made far from where it is consumed is found, there is no reason to believe it would be detrimental to anybody (and definitively better for the environment).

I think you all should rethink the definition of the word war.
Cause in this day and age any thing from cyber attacks to bio weapons can be exactly that. I real war.
No bullet needs to be fired. Why waste resources like that?

Kiwirob wrote:

KFTG wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

A bit of whataboutism here, the US isn’t a paragon when it comes to environmental regulations and your entire economy is built on printing money and increasing the debt ceiling, that’s hardly stable or economically prudent.

Anyone else a China apologist?
Tell me, where did this virus originate?
There is a reason why China is (once again, now that there is int'l attention on them) banning "wet markets".
In 6 months, when the world has "moved on", they will re-open them.
At which point ANOTHER "novel" virus will emerge and hopefully not kill your family.

I don't care where the Covid-19 originated from, just like I don't care where Ebola came from, or MERS, or Zika.

Virus can start anywhere, at anytime, this one started in China, the next one could start in Norway, New Zealand or the Vatican City. Are we going to sanction and punish every country where a virus starts?

For example. The first recorded case of Spanish flu was in the USA.

On 4 March 1918, company cook Albert Gitchell, from Haskell County, reported sick at Fort Riley, a US military facility that at the time was training American troops during World War I, making him the first recorded victim of the flu. Within days, 522 men at the camp had reported sick. In the end an estimated 50 million people died.

By your own reasoning the US is responsible for the deaths of an estimated 50m people (some sources put it as high as 100m), was the US held to account for it? Was the US sanctioned, did they pay reparations?

The 2009 Swine flu epidemic originated in Central Mexico then traveled to the US where it then spread out across the world, an estimated 579,000 people died from it, was Mexico or the US sanctioned or punished, did either country pay reparations to the rest of the world?

So go on punish China for Covid-19 but remember when a pandemic originates from the US you will also be held to account......

The amount of stupid in this thread is beyond belief.

Kiwirob, you normally have fairly sensible comments yet ever since Civid-19 has come out its as if your account has been hacked by the CCP!
As for the Spanish Flu, they still don’t know where the actual first case happened, they just know that one of the first cases was in the US. As for the origin of it, just like Covid-19, the latest and most plausible theory is that it also originated in China and was brought to America by Chinese labourers.
Back then there was little understanding of how diseases and virus etc actually worked and they certainly had no way of controlling it. By contrast, SARS and Covid19 etc are understood enough that China should have shut it down rather than deliberately letting it spread to the world (they let 5 million people out of Wuhan before the lockdown) while telling the world there was nothing to worry about. That is criminally negligent and I certainly hope that the world holds China to account for it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 954433001/

Bill Maher has a good segment about this.
China is out of control. They need to be reeled-in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IanwsIqv4rM

Imo the best way to try to prevent people from eating bats for the next 50 years would be to call it bat flu.

KFTG wrote:

Bill Maher has a good segment about this.
China is out of control. They need to be reeled-in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IanwsIqv4rM

If that's all it takes for China to "be back", don't worry, the wet markets will be gone.

Meanwhile, the concentration camps, show justice, organ harvesting, etc., will continue, but who cares about that ?

Aesma wrote:

So China was saying Covid-19 was not dangerous, while shutting down a province, building hospitals in days, and asking for help from other countries for PPE ?

Are you sure you're making sense ?

The timing of it wasn’t all simultaneous.
By the time they shut down the province it was too late, 5 million people (many infected) had already left and then spread it around the world. Even if by chance there wasn’t a more sinister agenda behind it, the only reason for this is that China thought “this is hurting our economy, if we’re going to hurt, then the rest of the world can hurt too!”

The fact that they built an entire hospital so quickly only reinforces that this was all planned and they had the hospital all ready to be built.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 954433001/

These 5 millions (if true) mainly spread to the rest of China so that doesn't make a lot of sense. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Aesma wrote:

These 5 millions (if true) mainly spread to the rest of China so that doesn't make a lot of sense. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

When it comes to China you absolutely better assume there is malice behind it. China is not the worlds friend. Are you a CCP stooge or something?
Btw Hanlon’s razor is a fallacy. But hey nice anecdote.

No I'm not a CCP stooge. But since you mention it, how many people are there in the CCP ? Millions upon millions. They can't all be bright. Covering up bad things happening is standard practice at all levels, without thinking about the unintended consequences.

Zkpilot wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

KFTG wrote:

Anyone else a China apologist?
Tell me, where did this virus originate?
There is a reason why China is (once again, now that there is int'l attention on them) banning "wet markets".
In 6 months, when the world has "moved on", they will re-open them.
At which point ANOTHER "novel" virus will emerge and hopefully not kill your family.

I don't care where the Covid-19 originated from, just like I don't care where Ebola came from, or MERS, or Zika.

Virus can start anywhere, at anytime, this one started in China, the next one could start in Norway, New Zealand or the Vatican City. Are we going to sanction and punish every country where a virus starts?

For example. The first recorded case of Spanish flu was in the USA.

On 4 March 1918, company cook Albert Gitchell, from Haskell County, reported sick at Fort Riley, a US military facility that at the time was training American troops during World War I, making him the first recorded victim of the flu. Within days, 522 men at the camp had reported sick. In the end an estimated 50 million people died.

By your own reasoning the US is responsible for the deaths of an estimated 50m people (some sources put it as high as 100m), was the US held to account for it? Was the US sanctioned, did they pay reparations?

The 2009 Swine flu epidemic originated in Central Mexico then traveled to the US where it then spread out across the world, an estimated 579,000 people died from it, was Mexico or the US sanctioned or punished, did either country pay reparations to the rest of the world?

So go on punish China for Covid-19 but remember when a pandemic originates from the US you will also be held to account......

The amount of stupid in this thread is beyond belief.

Kiwirob, you normally have fairly sensible comments yet ever since Civid-19 has come out its as if your account has been hacked by the CCP!
As for the Spanish Flu, they still don’t know where the actual first case happened, they just know that one of the first cases was in the US. As for the origin of it, just like Covid-19, the latest and most plausible theory is that it also originated in China and was brought to America by Chinese labourers.
Back then there was little understanding of how diseases and virus etc actually worked and they certainly had no way of controlling it. By contrast, SARS and Covid19 etc are understood enough that China should have shut it down rather than deliberately letting it spread to the world (they let 5 million people out of Wuhan before the lockdown) while telling the world there was nothing to worry about. That is criminally negligent and I certainly hope that the world holds China to account for it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 954433001/

The first known patient of Spanish Flu was Albert Gitchell, it was US soldiers deploying to Europe from Kansas in 1918 who brought the Spanish Flu to Europe. This is well know, don't be like Trump and try to re-write history. I can't find any theory that Spanish Flu arrived in the US with Chinese laborers, anyway by the 1900's Chinese couldn't immigrate to the US due to the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act. More people trying to deflect and re write history.

http://origins.osu.edu/milestones/pande ... W1-vaccine

Zkpilot wrote:

Aesma wrote:

So China was saying Covid-19 was not dangerous, while shutting down a province, building hospitals in days, and asking for help from other countries for PPE ?

Are you sure you're making sense ?

The timing of it wasn’t all simultaneous.
By the time they shut down the province it was too late, 5 million people (many infected) had already left and then spread it around the world. Even if by chance there wasn’t a more sinister agenda behind it, the only reason for this is that China thought “this is hurting our economy, if we’re going to hurt, then the rest of the world can hurt too!”

The fact that they built an entire hospital so quickly only reinforces that this was all planned and they had the hospital all ready to be built.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 954433001/

The UK built a hospital in London in a little over 2 weeks, not quit as fast as the Chinese 10 days, plans for these kind of events are pre-existing and can be snapped into place very quickly when needed, unless you're the US and have a president who hated the previous president so much that he cancelled any and all plans made by him, especially the ones concerning pandemics.

Zkpilot wrote:

Aesma wrote:

These 5 millions (if true) mainly spread to the rest of China so that doesn't make a lot of sense. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

When it comes to China you absolutely better assume there is malice behind it. China is not the worlds friend. Are you a CCP stooge or something?
Btw Hanlon’s razor is a fallacy. But hey nice anecdote.

Why would there be malace behind it and what good would setting this virus on the world do them?

Claiming that the Chinese released this on purpose doesn't make any sense, all that it's done is cause them harm, it's closed factories and stopped it export driven economy in it's tracks.

Kiwirob wrote:

Zkpilot wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

I don't care where the Covid-19 originated from, just like I don't care where Ebola came from, or MERS, or Zika.

Virus can start anywhere, at anytime, this one started in China, the next one could start in Norway, New Zealand or the Vatican City. Are we going to sanction and punish every country where a virus starts?

For example. The first recorded case of Spanish flu was in the USA.

On 4 March 1918, company cook Albert Gitchell, from Haskell County, reported sick at Fort Riley, a US military facility that at the time was training American troops during World War I, making him the first recorded victim of the flu. Within days, 522 men at the camp had reported sick. In the end an estimated 50 million people died.

By your own reasoning the US is responsible for the deaths of an estimated 50m people (some sources put it as high as 100m), was the US held to account for it? Was the US sanctioned, did they pay reparations?

The 2009 Swine flu epidemic originated in Central Mexico then traveled to the US where it then spread out across the world, an estimated 579,000 people died from it, was Mexico or the US sanctioned or punished, did either country pay reparations to the rest of the world?

So go on punish China for Covid-19 but remember when a pandemic originates from the US you will also be held to account......

The amount of stupid in this thread is beyond belief.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ce-health/

Also, times have changed. Viruses and diseases etc weren’t very well understood a century ago, neither were methods to detect, treat, contain, eliminate etc. These days however we absolutely can do that which is why China should be held responsible. Even more so considering they started SARs not that long ago as well so they know exactly what to do.

My young kids were paying some online game and saw a user, presumably a child too, with username "ChinaCovidKillsUSA".
This is VERY disturbing, apparently children are being brainwashed to blame China.

Get you act together, USA! Stop that compulsory urge to blame and punish others. It's very dangerous, far more dangerous than any virus.

Otherwise, we could be heading for a new world war. And it wouldn't be the first time the USA starts a war with false reasons.

Jalap wrote:

My young kids were paying some online game and saw a user, presumably a child too, with username "ChinaCovidKillsUSA".
This is VERY disturbing, apparently children are being brainwashed to blame China.

Get you act together, USA! Stop that compulsory urge to blame and punish others. It's very dangerous, far more dangerous than any virus.

Otherwise, we could be heading for a new world war. And it wouldn't be the first time the USA starts a war with false reasons.

No one needs brainwashing, just look at where it started and see previous SARS, Hong Kong flus of years past. I’m not for punishing China, but am sure we need to be honest about where this started.

Jalap wrote:

My young kids were paying some online game and saw a user, presumably a child too, with username "ChinaCovidKillsUSA".
This is VERY disturbing, apparently children are being brainwashed to blame China.

Get you act together, USA! Stop that compulsory urge to blame and punish others. It's very dangerous, far more dangerous than any virus.

Otherwise, we could be heading for a new world war. And it wouldn't be the first time the USA starts a war with false reasons.

I would like to ask you, when someone accuses the US of something, the US is the usual suspect for all of the bad things that happen in the world, from global warming to racism etc, are you willing to also call people out to not blame the USA for these things?

The US is the most hated nation in the world, from within (we have a lot of haters inside) and outside its just amazing the amount of people that hate the US. People are so willing to hit on the US and its a very unifying theme among the globalist elite from all nations.

No doubt China is culpable of at the very least " Involuntary Genocide" when they hid and downplayed this virus. If its found out they by "mistake" released this, its going to be worse the backlash.

And the line that its more dangerous than the virus. This virus is expected to kill millions of people, can't see anything more dangerous and more destructive than that. Is it really anything more dangerous? hasn't the crisis created by this virus been more severe already? what more danger is there going to be if we hold China responsible as they should for this? Don't understand.

I seem to believe that the PC police is quick not to blame China because its not ruled by 'whites', as if that's a metric to be used when confronting the real enemies of democracy and humanity. US is ruled by 'whites' so it feels good to bash them all we can, but be careful of China, they are not whites and its dangerous to call them out.

Jalap wrote:

My young kids were paying some online game and saw a user, presumably a child too, with username "ChinaCovidKillsUSA".
This is VERY disturbing, apparently children are being brainwashed to blame China.

Get you act together, USA! Stop that compulsory urge to blame and punish others. It's very dangerous, far more dangerous than any virus.

Otherwise, we could be heading for a new world war. And it wouldn't be the first time the USA starts a war with false reasons.

It's not necessarely and directly what are we talking people to think but about how states will manage this crisis. Bad times make people look for scapegoats and witches. If there will be a major stall in the global economy, if there will be significant socio-economical harship, the probability of war is growing week by week, no matter what are we saying on social networks or to our kids. If at the start of the year the probability of a major war was almost nil, it grows with 5% with every week of global lockdown and with every week of hard economic depression. I'm not worrying too much about US or any other (at least decently democratic) state but about the autocratic states. While US, Europe, Japan, South America or the likes have the experience in dealing with economic downturn, social issues and have political flexibility, the autocratic states not so much. They tend to rely on knee jerk reactions and on big beautiful stories to keep the people around the dear leader/party. When those fall apart, this is when they tend to become politcally unstable and dangerous. Not because they want the war but because they don't know how to manage the situation.

Aesma wrote:

Can't find the thread about making "China pay" so this one feels most appropriate, better than the COVID19 one.

Funny, was just about to start a thread on that today, but sounds like one already existed once and was sanitized by the powers that be... Since acknowledging reality seems to not be PC, here are a few potential ways this could go down without hopefully causing too much of a backlash from China.

1) Removing patent and trademark protections for any products made by Western companies in China - if you are not going to give a crap about your Intellectual Property abroad, there is no way the government should be spending any resources protecting your Intellectual Property at home.

2) Removing sovereign immunity from the CCP - will allow the full force of the US tort system to be brought against them. Unlikely to ultimately lead to anything collectable, but if the US had the most obnoxious lawyers in the world, might as well put them to good use.

3) Fully embrace Taiwan as a member of the international community. Turns out they were right, and the CCPWHO was wrong on this. Convert all consular representations in Taiwan into full-fledged embassies and refuse to fund any international organizations that do not include Taiwan.

“The … crisis we face is unparalleled in modern times,” said the World Health Organization’s assistant director, while its director general proclaimed it “likely the greatest peacetime challenge that the United Nations and its agencies have ever faced.” This was based on a CDC computer model projection predicting as many as 1.4 million deaths from just two countries. Trick question: It was actually about the Ebola virus in Liberia and Sierra Leone five years ago, and the ultimate death toll was under 8,000.

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/04/18/a ... ic-models/

There was SARS, HIV, Ebola, all gonna wipe us out only to be empty threats.

Politicians and their enablers all love a crisis, they’ve been exaggerating threats forever to expand their powers and subjugate the paroles.

sonicruiser wrote:

This^^

China and Iran essentially lost 3000 people each in exchange for the utter destruction of the US economy. Russia lost almost nothing and had everything to gain. For them, this coronavirus is an early Christmas gift. The death toll in the US has already passed both China and Iran and is still climbing.

So now not only do China, Iran, and Russia get to see the destruction of the US economy, but also the implosion of thousands of people in America's working population as well. They couldn't have asked for much better.

There are actually more deaths that are unreported from China, Iran, and Russia. If at all we are seeing a much lesser number of deaths in these countries as compared to America or European countries is mainly because of the earlier imposition of Draconian Laws like 'Total Lockdown' of the entire nation.

Whereas, the USA, Italy, Spain, France and the UK were too late to react.

Just take the example of India as well, at the moment there is less number of deaths as of now. It may be due to less number of Testing done so far. But never the less, the imposition of 'Social Distancing and the Total Lockdown' at an early stage is working in containing the spread of this disease.

aerosreenivas wrote:

is working in containing the spread of this disease.

A valid point, but I would use the word slowing rather than containing. Increasing travel from state to state, from nation to nation, from city to city is going to continue the spread into previously uninfected areas.

And one thing I am certain of. Many more people have contracted this disease and died of this disease this is currently being reported. We will never know the true numbers.

One statistic I've kept watch upon is on the Texas State Government web site.

Right now it shows 453 deaths listed as COVID-19 related, but only 4,806 estimated people have recovered from the disease.

1,321 people are currently hospitalized with confirmed COVID-19, out of 18,260 reported cases. So there are apparently 11,680 people in Texas in self-isolation, or maybe not, with the disease at this time.

But only 176,239 people have been tested in the entire state of Texas with a population of over 29 million. A miniscule data sample to find meaningful statistics in my opinion.

Heck 18 cities in Texas have populations greater than the total number of people tested to date. And that is just counting the people within a city limits.

Let us all understand that we are living in an 'Interconnected World'. That means China will suffer severely if there is economic instability in the US and Europe due to the lockdown for COVID-19 disease. Similarly, the Western world will face the same if there are uncertainties in African and Asian countries.

I feel the main lesson that the COVID-19 has thought to all of us that 'We Are All In This Together'. We all have to resolve this issue together only.

None of us from any part of the world can 'Take A Joy Of Seeing Many Deaths And Difficulties Taking Place Elsewhere'. We all need each other.

So, I don't think it will be helpful for all of us to start WW3. Instead, from hereon, all the well-developed nations, as well as the rest of the world, should focus on spending more money and resources on 'Medical Science And Health Care' to prevent another such 'Pandemic' affecting the entire world.

Here are the birth rates for important industrial nations:
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explo ... &ind=false

Who wants to sacrifice one's only son, if not only child? So our situation today can't be compared to WW1 or WW2. There won't be a big war.

I still believe this crises can be brought under control once sufficient testing is available. Till then one just has to stay put.

I don't think our politicians today are rigid like the believers in gold standard in the Great Recession. If anything they print too much money. A solution for the economy will be found. It's not the end of the world.

SARS does put China in a very uncomfortable position. People have a right to be angry. But they have to accept there is no justice in world politics. And how is it the fault of the average Chinese?

Looking at the US financial markets, almost back to normal, looking at their reactions at seeing better than expected economic numbers from China, nobody in Wall St seem to think there will be a backlash against China, let alone a war !

AirWorthy99 wrote:

I would like to ask you, when someone accuses the US of something, the US is the usual suspect for all of the bad things that happen in the world, from global warming to racism etc, are you willing to also call people out to not blame the USA for these things?

Of course!
The USA is considered to be the "leading" nation of the world. People are critical towards leaders. They should be. I am.
Also, I blame Russia and China for far more misery worldwide than I blame than I would ever blame the USA for. But those aren't old friends who seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

And the line that its more dangerous than the virus. This virus is expected to kill millions of people, can't see anything more dangerous and more destructive than that. Is it really anything more dangerous? hasn't the crisis created by this virus been more severe already? what more danger is there going to be if we hold China responsible as they should for this? Don't understand.

Because I don't have enough confidence in your leaders to not start a war with China over this. They're building up hate. Hate is the last thing we need right now.
April 2020 is the garden of Eden compared to April 1940.

Fix the crisis first. Stand together and unified. Support the measures taken, because this IS the way out.
When the crisis is solved, then you can go search for justice. If it was indeed an error in China, which I think is plausible, then there should be repercussions.

But spreading hate now, when we all are fighting the same enemy. That really is a terrible approach.

Jalap wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

I would like to ask you, when someone accuses the US of something, the US is the usual suspect for all of the bad things that happen in the world, from global warming to racism etc, are you willing to also call people out to not blame the USA for these things?

Of course!
The USA is considered to be the "leading" nation of the world. People are critical towards leaders. They should be. I am.
Also, I blame Russia and China for far more misery worldwide than I blame than I would ever blame the USA for. But those aren't old friends who seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

And the line that its more dangerous than the virus. This virus is expected to kill millions of people, can't see anything more dangerous and more destructive than that. Is it really anything more dangerous? hasn't the crisis created by this virus been more severe already? what more danger is there going to be if we hold China responsible as they should for this? Don't understand.

Because I don't have enough confidence in your leaders to not start a war with China over this. They're building up hate. Hate is the last thing we need right now.
April 2020 is the garden of Eden compared to April 1940.

Fix the crisis first. Stand together and unified. Support the measures taken, because this IS the way out.
When the crisis is solved, then you can go search for justice. If it was indeed an error in China, which I think is plausible, then there should be repercussions.

But spreading hate now, when we all are fighting the same enemy. That really is a terrible approach.

Interesting your point of view. You say not to blame China for coronavirus, because that's "worse" than the virus.

Yet here you are spreading false suppositions that the US is looking to start a war. Your same argument of being cautious and not blame anyone because is dangerous you are actually contradicting it, by spreading this false narrative that I am sure you will have a hard time to actually prove.

You are spreading fear, which to me is the same as hate by stating that the US is looking to stir up a war based on hate. That's also dangerous if you ask me because there is absolutely no foundation to your argument, just suppositions.

You were very quick to say that the person who was blaming China was wrong, have you seen this? https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/chi ... index.html

Do you really expect the US to respond by saying that "The virus knows no country or borders" and "saying that is more dangerous than the virus".

Look at this gem:

Halting funding to an organization that plays an irreplaceable and vital role in helping countries get prepared for and respond to the pandemic is a "move of genocide" against humanity, especially when most virus-stricken places are still suffering, and shifting the blame to the World Health Organization (WHO) won't help cover up US President Donald Trump's catastrophic mishandling of the coronavirus crisis, leading the US into a very dangerous situation, predominant experts and observers said.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1185688.shtml

That's the politburo mouth piece "global times" of China. They are saying these things. What do you make of that? That's China accusing the US of genocide.

If someone would love to start a war some day, you can rest for sure, its not the US.

Is this present situation “April 1940”? I think you need to read the history of 1940, before those kind of claims. We’re nowhere near.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Is this present situation “April 1940”? I think you need to read the history of 1940, before those kind of claims. We’re nowhere near.

GF

Don't really understand what direction to read you post. Nowhere near is definitely correct, but I wonder in what direction you're thinking.
For there's little discussion about what made the headlines in April 1940. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_1940.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

You are spreading fear, which to me is the same as hate by stating that the US is looking to stir up a war based on hate. That's also dangerous if you ask me because there is absolutely no foundation to your argument, just suppositions.

Spreading hate has led to war in the past.
I'm worried when I see this.
Especially when I see this in a powerfull "leading nation" with a very untrustworthy leader.

Why would I trust your president to not start a war?
Nothing is his fault. He doesn't support the so much needed measures. Things could get much worse than they are today. But it won't be his fault. So pumping up the conflict with China would be the logical distraction. He'll be a great leader for doing so. The longer it takes to get the virus truely confined, the more desperate he'll get.

Yes, those are suppositions. With any other president, I wouldn't even think about those suppositions. But you have Trump.

Jalap wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Is this present situation “April 1940”? I think you need to read the history of 1940, before those kind of claims. We’re nowhere near.

GF

Don't really understand what direction to read you post. Nowhere near is definitely correct, but I wonder in what direction you're thinking.
For there's little discussion about what made the headlines in April 1940. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_1940.

Pretty obviously, no where near war today unless some nation was invaded today

Jalap wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

You are spreading fear, which to me is the same as hate by stating that the US is looking to stir up a war based on hate. That's also dangerous if you ask me because there is absolutely no foundation to your argument, just suppositions.

Spreading hate has led to war in the past.
I'm worried when I see this.
Especially when I see this in a powerfull "leading nation" with a very untrustworthy leader.

Why would I trust your president to not start a war?
Nothing is his fault. He doesn't support the so much needed measures. Things could get much worse than they are today. But it won't be his fault. So pumping up the conflict with China would be the logical distraction. He'll be a great leader for doing so. The longer it takes to get the virus truely confined, the more desperate he'll get.

Yes, those are suppositions. With any other president, I wouldn't even think about those suppositions. But you have Trump.

You do not understand America, do you? It’s not remotely possible he could start a war without some real provocation.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

You do not understand America, do you? It’s not remotely possible he could start a war without some real provocation.

Are you certain that the virus ourbreak can't be spinned into a "real provocation"?

Yes, I am. Now a depression caused by these lockdowns might be different.

https://warontherocks.com/2015/11/where ... tred-gone/

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Pretty obviously, no where near war today unless some nation was invaded today

Okay. I made that comparison as a response to

"This virus is expected to kill millions of people, can't see anything more dangerous and more destructive than that."

I can see things worse than this virus.

Trump, despite everyone’s hatred, campaigned and governed on ending the wars of the last 19 years. He has been roundly criticized by posters here and in the MSM for getting out of Syria, for example. He knows these wars are unpopular and a distraction, so he has no incentive to start one. Trump is a survivor, shrewd and cunning which is how he hasn’t beaten the odds in business and against Clinton.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

He knows these wars are unpopular and a distraction, so he has no incentive to start one.

So his repeated attempts to start a completely needless war with Iran, after deliberately and villainously destabilizing and provoking the situation by having the US welsch on a treaty was for what reason then?

Using a war as a distraction is absolutely something trump looks forward to. This is not difficult to understand as there is not another way to see this.

Jalap wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Pretty obviously, no where near war today unless some nation was invaded today

Okay. I made that comparison as a response to

"This virus is expected to kill millions of people, can't see anything more dangerous and more destructive than that."

I can see things worse than this virus.

Exactly. People pointing out fingers to China's lying about the virus. That's hate crime.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

He knows these wars are unpopular and a distraction, so he has no incentive to start one.

So his repeated attempts to start a completely needless war with Iran, after deliberately and villainously destabilizing and provoking the situation by having the US welsch on a treaty was for what reason then?

Using a war as a distraction is absolutely something trump looks forward to. This is not difficult to understand as there is not another way to see this.

He orders an attack on a known Iranian terror master in Iraq, a country he was not supposed to be in. That’s your case?

It isn’t a treaty, it was not popular (Obama couldn’t get it thru the Senate) and reneging is not Casus belli

L410Turbolet wrote:

Jalap wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Pretty obviously, no where near war today unless some nation was invaded today

Okay. I made that comparison as a response to

"This virus is expected to kill millions of people, can't see anything more dangerous and more destructive than that."

I can see things worse than this virus.

Exactly. People pointing out fingers to China's lying about the virus. That's hate crime.

Well, if they’re lying it isn’t a lie. And the WHO kept repeating it. And what’s a hate crime?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/p ... china.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gence-says

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... rus-164652

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/07/co ... ronavirus/

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... -says.html

I don't believe Trump wants a war. He downplayed his own rhetoric against China by talking about "it might be a mistake". Of course, going to war against a nuclear power with millions of soldiers wouldn't be the best idea anyway, the US prefers to attack weak countries.

Now, if things turn really bad in the US, would it be beyond Trump to launch into some military adventure to win reelection ? Nobody can say no. Nothing is beyond Trump.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Trump, despite everyone’s hatred, campaigned and governed on ending the wars of the last 19 years. He has been roundly criticized by posters here and in the MSM for getting out of Syria, for example. He knows these wars are unpopular and a distraction, so he has no incentive to start one. Trump is a survivor, shrewd and cunning which is how he hasn’t beaten the odds in business and against Clinton.

Very true indeed, Trump will be the first president in a long time that hasn't started a war, I would have thought liberals would have been happy about this, but no. Instead they blame him for 'almost' starting a war with Iran when the US killed the terrorist mastermind behind the deaths of Americans, and innocent civilians, and who happened to be plotting against the US where he was killed. Some people are still shedding tears for him.

Anyways, also in this forum some people were really concerned or outrage at the incident with the TR where sailors got infected with COVID19, here is one example of how things are out there in reality:

https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp ... aign=Fight

This is COVID19 stricken Iran bullying and harassing US navy ships. Where is the concern for those sailors here? Who is really wanting to start a war?

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

He knows these wars are unpopular and a distraction, so he has no incentive to start one.

So his repeated attempts to start a completely needless war with Iran, after deliberately and villainously destabilizing and provoking the situation by having the US welsch on a treaty was for what reason then?

Using a war as a distraction is absolutely something trump looks forward to. This is not difficult to understand as there is not another way to see this.

Trump is the most pacific and less prone to military action president in a long time.

Like him or not, when tensions were high with North Korea (something we did not provoke) he sat down with Kim.

When Iran responded to the killing of the general by sending missiles to US bases and wounding dozens of US military service men, he did not respond.

So if that's not enough for you to see that he isn't looking forward to a war, then what are you basing this on? his tweeter feed?