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User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16036
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:23 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Nobody has proven the dangers long term dangers of the virus either. Maybe destroying the economy will kill more people than the virus? Maybe delaying natural herd immunity will be deadly.


Epidemiological protocols for a novel respiratory virus outbreak are designed to minimize risk and allow existing healthcare resources to cope - unless you are still unaware what they mean by 'novel'. Zero distancing and travel stops implemented - want to venture a guess at the number of dead and ICU inventory we'd be seeing in North America and Europe now?


According to another poser in the other thread, he lives in Sweden, and despite their current lax guidelines, they are not seeing hospitals overwhelmed. We did not see it here in the states, and as it was reported NYC saw almost 22% of bed occupancy.

As for deadly, the virus is deadly with or without hospital beds, I agree, expanding hospital capacity should be the norm moving forward because we will eventually all become Sweden and spikes will happen, but closing the economy again won't be an option.

We all should practice social distancing when we leave home, and wear a mask so that we prevent spikes, keep those vulnerable or at risk of dying or sick at home, but the reality of this, which the MSM is not saying, there will be herd immunity from COVID19 before a vaccine is ever distributed, the rest of us who are healthy and young should expect to get this in the near future (if we did not have it already). You only need 60% of the population for herd immunity so its going to take some time.

None of the experts will ever say this publicly because if they say so the public will question these measures and everything else. I am seeing how they keep moving the goalposts, we flattened the curve, now its more testing. Then what else?


You *still* don’t understand why NYC hospitals weren’t completely overwhelmed? Not understanding things doesn’t make your conclusions true.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:46 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Epidemiological protocols for a novel respiratory virus outbreak are designed to minimize risk and allow existing healthcare resources to cope - unless you are still unaware what they mean by 'novel'. Zero distancing and travel stops implemented - want to venture a guess at the number of dead and ICU inventory we'd be seeing in North America and Europe now?


According to another poser in the other thread, he lives in Sweden, and despite their current lax guidelines, they are not seeing hospitals overwhelmed. We did not see it here in the states, and as it was reported NYC saw almost 22% of bed occupancy.

As for deadly, the virus is deadly with or without hospital beds, I agree, expanding hospital capacity should be the norm moving forward because we will eventually all become Sweden and spikes will happen, but closing the economy again won't be an option.

We all should practice social distancing when we leave home, and wear a mask so that we prevent spikes, keep those vulnerable or at risk of dying or sick at home, but the reality of this, which the MSM is not saying, there will be herd immunity from COVID19 before a vaccine is ever distributed, the rest of us who are healthy and young should expect to get this in the near future (if we did not have it already). You only need 60% of the population for herd immunity so its going to take some time.

None of the experts will ever say this publicly because if they say so the public will question these measures and everything else. I am seeing how they keep moving the goalposts, we flattened the curve, now its more testing. Then what else?


You *still* don’t understand why NYC hospitals weren’t completely overwhelmed? Not understanding things doesn’t make your conclusions true.


A study by the state of NY said that almost 2.3 million people had COVID19 in the state. And at the peak you had 22% of the occupancy. Tell me what I don't understand, and why are you avoiding the rest of my post?

Do you agree with me and the reality that inevitably there will be herd immunity as a way out of this virus?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16036
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:48 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

According to another poser in the other thread, he lives in Sweden, and despite their current lax guidelines, they are not seeing hospitals overwhelmed. We did not see it here in the states, and as it was reported NYC saw almost 22% of bed occupancy.

As for deadly, the virus is deadly with or without hospital beds, I agree, expanding hospital capacity should be the norm moving forward because we will eventually all become Sweden and spikes will happen, but closing the economy again won't be an option.

We all should practice social distancing when we leave home, and wear a mask so that we prevent spikes, keep those vulnerable or at risk of dying or sick at home, but the reality of this, which the MSM is not saying, there will be herd immunity from COVID19 before a vaccine is ever distributed, the rest of us who are healthy and young should expect to get this in the near future (if we did not have it already). You only need 60% of the population for herd immunity so its going to take some time.

None of the experts will ever say this publicly because if they say so the public will question these measures and everything else. I am seeing how they keep moving the goalposts, we flattened the curve, now its more testing. Then what else?


You *still* don’t understand why NYC hospitals weren’t completely overwhelmed? Not understanding things doesn’t make your conclusions true.


A study by the state of NY said that almost 2.3 million people had COVID19 in the state. And at the peak you had 22% of the occupancy. Tell me what I don't understand, and why are you avoiding the rest of my post?

Do you agree with me and the reality that inevitably there will be herd immunity as a way out of this virus?


We talked about the math in a previous exchange, but instead of trying to understand the charts I posted, you went and found your own to prove some other point. So, nah.

I don't know if I agree about herd immunity or not - virologists say we don't know enough about all the different mutations of the virus / antibody yield yet.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You *still* don’t understand why NYC hospitals weren’t completely overwhelmed? Not understanding things doesn’t make your conclusions true.


A study by the state of NY said that almost 2.3 million people had COVID19 in the state. And at the peak you had 22% of the occupancy. Tell me what I don't understand, and why are you avoiding the rest of my post?

Do you agree with me and the reality that inevitably there will be herd immunity as a way out of this virus?


We talked about the math in a previous exchange, but instead of trying to understand the charts I posted, you went and found your own to prove some other point. So, nah.

I don't know if I agree about herd immunity or not - virologists say we don't know enough about all the different mutations of the virus / antibody yield yet.


Virologists, experts, etc no none knows nothing about this really yet. That's why keeping this closed is already causing havoc on millions of lives worldwide independent of the virus. Riots, famine, etc. In the end we all are going to get naturally COVID just that it should not happen all at once, I agree. But no one is willing to say the truth about it, just yet.

Hiding is only extending the inevitable, lets hide those vulnerable, those at risk. The rest of us allow us to carry on with safety measures.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16036
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:04 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

A study by the state of NY said that almost 2.3 million people had COVID19 in the state. And at the peak you had 22% of the occupancy. Tell me what I don't understand, and why are you avoiding the rest of my post?

Do you agree with me and the reality that inevitably there will be herd immunity as a way out of this virus?


We talked about the math in a previous exchange, but instead of trying to understand the charts I posted, you went and found your own to prove some other point. So, nah.

I don't know if I agree about herd immunity or not - virologists say we don't know enough about all the different mutations of the virus / antibody yield yet.


Virologists, experts, etc no none knows nothing about this really yet. That's why keeping this closed is already causing havoc on millions of lives worldwide independent of the virus. Riots, famine, etc. In the end we all are going to get naturally COVID just that it should not happen all at once, I agree. But no one is willing to say the truth about it, just yet.

Hiding is only extending the inevitable, lets hide those vulnerable, those at risk. The rest of us allow us to carry on with safety measures.


They know a lot already, just not everything yet.

For example, some strains seem to be deadlier than others, and the strains have now been tracked genetically in various countries:

Image

Japanese study here:

https://nazology.net/archives/56349

US genomic study here (not yet peer-reviewed):

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 7.030759v4

You cannot just 'hide those at risk' and expect thing to start humming again. The public needs good information that reinforces doing so is safe, and they can be reasonably sure they will not endanger friends and family.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:23 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

We talked about the math in a previous exchange, but instead of trying to understand the charts I posted, you went and found your own to prove some other point. So, nah.

I don't know if I agree about herd immunity or not - virologists say we don't know enough about all the different mutations of the virus / antibody yield yet.


Virologists, experts, etc no none knows nothing about this really yet. That's why keeping this closed is already causing havoc on millions of lives worldwide independent of the virus. Riots, famine, etc. In the end we all are going to get naturally COVID just that it should not happen all at once, I agree. But no one is willing to say the truth about it, just yet.

Hiding is only extending the inevitable, lets hide those vulnerable, those at risk. The rest of us allow us to carry on with safety measures.


They know a lot already, just not everything yet.

For example, some strains seem to be deadlier than others, and the strains have now been tracked genetically in various countries:

Image

Japanese study here:

https://nazology.net/archives/56349

US genomic study here (not yet peer-reviewed):

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 7.030759v4

You cannot just 'hide those at risk' and expect thing to start humming again. The public needs good information that reinforces doing so is safe, and they can be reasonably sure they will not endanger friends and family.


Yes, I agree, things won't get back to normal if they open up tomorrow. Right now the public is still in fear over COVID19 and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, and to come up and say that herd immunity is the final goal would be very difficult to swallow for the population.

Keeping things closed until we get a full picture is not going to work. I have a feeling that in the fall this is going to get far worse, even with strict measures, though very likely those who were going to die in the fall already did, closing the economy on the busiest season economically will not be a feasible policy, long term policy is to learn how to live with COVID and everyone prepared but this can not go on, COVID is going to stick around for years to come.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23968
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:16 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
The Michigan legislature will meet to strip powers from Whitmer. She is already in hot water over trying to give a no-bid contract to a company that publicly stated Trump should be infected with coronavirus ASAP. She is awful.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michig ... her-powers


More Republican games. The same old "because you don't do what we want, we will force it on everyone" ploy. And it will backfire. Oh, gee.... a no-bid contract where someone there said something bad about a leader! That has never ever happened ever in the whole history of the whole history, has it?

methinks thou doth protest too much.....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23968
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Virologists, experts, etc no none knows nothing about this really yet. That's why keeping this closed is already causing havoc on millions of lives worldwide independent of the virus. Riots, famine, etc. In the end we all are going to get naturally COVID just that it should not happen all at once, I agree. But no one is willing to say the truth about it, just yet.

Hiding is only extending the inevitable, lets hide those vulnerable, those at risk. The rest of us allow us to carry on with safety measures.


They know a lot already, just not everything yet.

For example, some strains seem to be deadlier than others, and the strains have now been tracked genetically in various countries:

Image

Japanese study here:

https://nazology.net/archives/56349

US genomic study here (not yet peer-reviewed):

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 7.030759v4

You cannot just 'hide those at risk' and expect thing to start humming again. The public needs good information that reinforces doing so is safe, and they can be reasonably sure they will not endanger friends and family.


Yes, I agree, things won't get back to normal if they open up tomorrow. Right now the public is still in fear over COVID19 and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, and to come up and say that herd immunity is the final goal would be very difficult to swallow for the population.

Keeping things closed until we get a full picture is not going to work. I have a feeling that in the fall this is going to get far worse, even with strict measures, though very likely those who were going to die in the fall already did, closing the economy on the busiest season economically will not be a feasible policy, long term policy is to learn how to live with COVID and everyone prepared but this can not go on, COVID is going to stick around for years to come.


But this is not a simple "either/or" scenario. We can not simply open everything and let nature take it's course. Even very healthy people will die. Republicans are okay with this. Who cares if people die, as long as we can go to bars and get our hair done and wait for the big summer blockbuster. And if thousands and thousands and thousands die and hospitals and morgues can not deal with it, so what? At least we have an economy! That seems to be the mantra of the part of life. The party of all lives matter. The party of every life is sacred.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:18 pm

A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:22 pm

NoTime wrote:
A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.


If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.
 
User avatar
PixelPilot
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:24 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.


If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Instead of proper meal now many eat $1 dollar combo fast foods "swimming" in cholesterol. You know, last thing they can afford and if they are lucky of course. Some need food banks already.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare which seems to be the "real" concern of so many.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:29 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.


If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. I mean there was no real need to lock down entire states, when the data shows that there is virtually no serious risk to anyone under 50 with no pre-existing conditions. (Yes, there are some exceptions... just like there are for everything.) But, by and large, the under 50 population could've done well with some sensible social distancing and hygiene improvements, while locking down targeted segments of the population.

And, the whole "if it looks like we overreacted, then what we did worked" line of reasoning is bogus. By that line of thinking, no reaction would've been too much.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:32 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.


If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare.


Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:39 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.


If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Instead of proper meal now many eat $1 dollar combo fast foods "swimming" in cholesterol. You know, last thing they can afford and if they are lucky of course. Some need food banks already.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare which seems to be the "real" concern of so many.


The goal was to flatten the curve so that health infrastructure does not collapse. Hospitals in NY on their max was at 22% of their capacity. So perhaps there was an over reaction into shutting down the entire economy, whilst you could have kept those vulnerable or at risk isolated from the rest.

Not getting infected was never the intended goal of the experts, they said they wanted to flatten the curve but not bring infections to zero. That's impossible and if any expert said that, can't be called an expert.

Eventually we all gonna get infected, by the time a vaccine comes out 12-18 months or two years, virus would have already gotten to the majority of the population, current studies show that as much as 10 times more people are infected than those who are said to be COVID positive.

Reducing infections to zero or deaths to zero is an impossible goal, and if they made us believe that, they were wrong. And shouldn't be a goal because no one will way years till an effective vaccine, keep those vulnerable and at risk at home. that's it. Lets move on. If you want to stay home, stay home, don't work.
 
User avatar
PixelPilot
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:42 pm

2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:

If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare.


Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.


Different topic but to reply to the thought - if one is arguing that complete lock downs are good then a proper response should have had protective measures covering financial aid implemented at the same time IF not before locking tens of millions of people out of their ability to make money.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:43 pm

2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:

If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare.


Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.


This is what this is turning out to be. A political exercise to change the dynamics of how this country operates politically, economically and socially. Get the US to become socialist, because the health crisis is going to become an economic crisis. Seemed like a plan?

That's why we can't trust most of the opinions on why we should keep everything closed, their is an ulterior motive here. And you said it your self.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:44 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A stupid thing I observed during COVID: Locking down entire states and knee-capping the economy, instead of targeted/sensible lockdowns for the weak/vulnerable.

Every day, more and more evidence comes out, showing just how badly the world has overreacted to this.


If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. I mean there was no real need to lock down entire states, when the data shows that there is virtually no serious risk to anyone under 50 with no pre-existing conditions. (Yes, there are some exceptions... just like there are for everything.) But, by and large, the under 50 population could've done well with some sensible social distancing and hygiene improvements, while locking down targeted segments of the population.

And, the whole "if it looks like we overreacted, then what we did worked" line of reasoning is bogus. By that line of thinking, no reaction would've been too much.


The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.
 
GDB
Posts: 14398
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:44 pm

As the thread relating to the disinfectant issue was deleted, some words to illustrate reply 259, maybe not the usual brain fart?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:45 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare.


Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.


This is what this is turning out to be. A political exercise to change the dynamics of how this country operates politically, economically and socially. Get the US to become socialist, because the health crisis is going to become an economic crisis. Seemed like a plan?

That's why we can't trust most of the opinions on why we should keep everything closed, their is an ulterior motive here. And you said it your self.


At what point did I say that was an ulterior motive? I'm really sorry that this tragic event highlights the need for something you hate, but it does.
 
User avatar
PixelPilot
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:46 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:

If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Instead of proper meal now many eat $1 dollar combo fast foods "swimming" in cholesterol. You know, last thing they can afford and if they are lucky of course. Some need food banks already.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare which seems to be the "real" concern of so many.


The goal was to flatten the curve so that health infrastructure does not collapse. Hospitals in NY on their max was at 22% of their capacity. So perhaps there was an over reaction into shutting down the entire economy, whilst you could have kept those vulnerable or at risk isolated from the rest.

Not getting infected was never the intended goal of the experts, they said they wanted to flatten the curve but not bring infections to zero. That's impossible and if any expert said that, can't be called an expert.

Eventually we all gonna get infected, by the time a vaccine comes out 12-18 months or two years, virus would have already gotten to the majority of the population, current studies show that as much as 10 times more people are infected than those who are said to be COVID positive.

Reducing infections to zero or deaths to zero is an impossible goal, and if they made us believe that, they were wrong. And shouldn't be a goal because no one will way years till an effective vaccine, keep those vulnerable and at risk at home. that's it. Lets move on. If you want to stay home, stay home, don't work.


My company didn't close even for a day.
We just made sure we're far from each other. We were lucky to be able to implement such measures but we made sure to extend it to our homes.
Elder and those at risk only see us from a distance delivering their groceries.
You got to change your behavior but no stop your life. I find it dangerous and reckless to even suggest that everything should stay closed because it simply sounds as there is a motive to do so and health concerns is not it.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:48 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Instead of proper meal now many eat $1 dollar combo fast foods "swimming" in cholesterol. You know, last thing they can afford and if they are lucky of course. Some need food banks already.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare which seems to be the "real" concern of so many.


The goal was to flatten the curve so that health infrastructure does not collapse. Hospitals in NY on their max was at 22% of their capacity. So perhaps there was an over reaction into shutting down the entire economy, whilst you could have kept those vulnerable or at risk isolated from the rest.

Not getting infected was never the intended goal of the experts, they said they wanted to flatten the curve but not bring infections to zero. That's impossible and if any expert said that, can't be called an expert.

Eventually we all gonna get infected, by the time a vaccine comes out 12-18 months or two years, virus would have already gotten to the majority of the population, current studies show that as much as 10 times more people are infected than those who are said to be COVID positive.

Reducing infections to zero or deaths to zero is an impossible goal, and if they made us believe that, they were wrong. And shouldn't be a goal because no one will way years till an effective vaccine, keep those vulnerable and at risk at home. that's it. Lets move on. If you want to stay home, stay home, don't work.


My company didn't close even for a day.
We just made sure we're far from each other. We were lucky to be able to implement such measures but we made sure to extend it to our homes.
Elder and those at risk only see us from a distance delivering their groceries.


So it sounds like this horrible, terrible, no-good lock-down isn't that bad after all?
 
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PixelPilot
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:50 pm

2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

The goal was to flatten the curve so that health infrastructure does not collapse. Hospitals in NY on their max was at 22% of their capacity. So perhaps there was an over reaction into shutting down the entire economy, whilst you could have kept those vulnerable or at risk isolated from the rest.

Not getting infected was never the intended goal of the experts, they said they wanted to flatten the curve but not bring infections to zero. That's impossible and if any expert said that, can't be called an expert.

Eventually we all gonna get infected, by the time a vaccine comes out 12-18 months or two years, virus would have already gotten to the majority of the population, current studies show that as much as 10 times more people are infected than those who are said to be COVID positive.

Reducing infections to zero or deaths to zero is an impossible goal, and if they made us believe that, they were wrong. And shouldn't be a goal because no one will way years till an effective vaccine, keep those vulnerable and at risk at home. that's it. Lets move on. If you want to stay home, stay home, don't work.


My company didn't close even for a day.
We just made sure we're far from each other. We were lucky to be able to implement such measures but we made sure to extend it to our homes.
Elder and those at risk only see us from a distance delivering their groceries.


So it sounds like this horrible, terrible, no-good lock-down isn't that bad after all?


Not for me but several of my family members are about to hit the dirt and looks like I will have to house one of them. nice person so no problem with doing so it's the reason why that is seriously messed up.
like I said, I'm very fortunate to be where I am.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:50 pm

2122M wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
2122M wrote:

Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.


This is what this is turning out to be. A political exercise to change the dynamics of how this country operates politically, economically and socially. Get the US to become socialist, because the health crisis is going to become an economic crisis. Seemed like a plan?

That's why we can't trust most of the opinions on why we should keep everything closed, their is an ulterior motive here. And you said it your self.


At what point did I say that was an ulterior motive? I'm really sorry that this tragic event highlights the need for something you hate, but it does.


You are saying the lockdowns are still needed, despite the economic issues arising from it. And that 'this country' should put health over economy. Got newsflash for you, the socialist nations in Europe they are opening up. Italy opened small shops https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronav ... kdown.html, Germany https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus Denmark: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronav ... kdown.html And Sweden is still open never closed. So no, even those nations that have a lot money for social programs, they also understand they need to work.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:00 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

If it looks like we over-reacted, that means the reaction is working.

To elaborate:

The lockdowns are supposed to reduce the number of cases. You cannot then use the low number of cases (compared to worst fears) as evidence that that lockdowns are unnecessary. The low number of cases is evidence that they are working.


Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. I mean there was no real need to lock down entire states, when the data shows that there is virtually no serious risk to anyone under 50 with no pre-existing conditions. (Yes, there are some exceptions... just like there are for everything.) But, by and large, the under 50 population could've done well with some sensible social distancing and hygiene improvements, while locking down targeted segments of the population.

And, the whole "if it looks like we overreacted, then what we did worked" line of reasoning is bogus. By that line of thinking, no reaction would've been too much.


The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.


Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
2122M wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

This is what this is turning out to be. A political exercise to change the dynamics of how this country operates politically, economically and socially. Get the US to become socialist, because the health crisis is going to become an economic crisis. Seemed like a plan?

That's why we can't trust most of the opinions on why we should keep everything closed, their is an ulterior motive here. And you said it your self.


At what point did I say that was an ulterior motive? I'm really sorry that this tragic event highlights the need for something you hate, but it does.


You are saying the lockdowns are still needed, despite the economic issues arising from it. And that 'this country' should put health over economy. Got newsflash for you, the socialist nations in Europe they are opening up. Italy opened small shops https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronav ... kdown.html, Germany https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus Denmark: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronav ... kdown.html And Sweden is still open never closed. So no, even those nations that have a lot money for social programs, they also understand they need to work.


Italy has shown a decline in new cases since late March and are only now opening up a few stores. Gerrmany has shows a decline in cases since early April. Denmark's peak was Apr. 7.

The US has yet to show a consistent decline in cases. Guidance from Trump himself (on the advise of experts) was to see 14 days of declining cases before opening up. So it looks like we are following similar guidelines to Europe. But they are not rioting and protesting over there because the government is taking care of them.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:14 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. I mean there was no real need to lock down entire states, when the data shows that there is virtually no serious risk to anyone under 50 with no pre-existing conditions. (Yes, there are some exceptions... just like there are for everything.) But, by and large, the under 50 population could've done well with some sensible social distancing and hygiene improvements, while locking down targeted segments of the population.

And, the whole "if it looks like we overreacted, then what we did worked" line of reasoning is bogus. By that line of thinking, no reaction would've been too much.


The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.


Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely. Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.
 
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PixelPilot
Posts: 696
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:21 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.


Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely. Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


If US could you wouldn't have 26+ million unemployed as of yesterday and many of them will have no jobs waiting when this reopens as business wasn't able to hold for whatever reason.
How many if this keeps going for another month / two or more?
What's the remedy for those people? Stop crying as it was for greater good?
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:40 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely. Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


If US could you wouldn't have 26+ million unemployed as of yesterday and many of them will have no jobs waiting when this reopens as business wasn't able to hold for whatever reason.
How many if this keeps going for another month / two or more?
What's the remedy for those people? Stop crying as it was for greater good?


If we reopen too soon an 50,000 more die from Coronavirus, what the remedy for them and their families? Stop crying it was for the greater good?
 
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seb146
Posts: 23968
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:44 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely. Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


If US could you wouldn't have 26+ million unemployed as of yesterday and many of them will have no jobs waiting when this reopens as business wasn't able to hold for whatever reason.
How many if this keeps going for another month / two or more?
What's the remedy for those people? Stop crying as it was for greater good?


Republicans have been saying for years that we need to cut social programs because they just encourage lazy behavior and they are a drain on the economy. Now, we have an actual drain on the economy and we still have no social programs. Just suck it up and get back to propping up the "too big to fail" corporations. More victim shaming, more blame the victim. If we had social programs like they do in Europe and parts of Asia, our economy would not be as bad as it is and will be.
 
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PixelPilot
Posts: 696
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:53 pm

2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:

You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely. Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


If US could you wouldn't have 26+ million unemployed as of yesterday and many of them will have no jobs waiting when this reopens as business wasn't able to hold for whatever reason.
How many if this keeps going for another month / two or more?
What's the remedy for those people? Stop crying as it was for greater good?


If we reopen too soon an 50,000 more die from Coronavirus, what the remedy for them and their families? Stop crying it was for the greater good?


Counter question. How convenient. That means you have no solution. Write off basically.

#1 As for your question if you can then stay home. If you can't then make sure you practice as much distancing and hygiene as possible.
#2 if #1 not possible then quarantine targeted communities / counties and not entire states. What's the point of keeping entire state in quarantine if certain counties are laying off nurses and doctors due to having no patients what so ever?? Dumbest thing I ever heard.

There's no cure for this as of yet so what is that you want to do till we have one? That is if we ever do. Autumn, winter, spring full blown quarantine again? Even 200K dead from corona virus will be a joke in comparison to the negative effects of such massive recession. Millions if not tens of millions with have their lives cut short either for financial reasons, suicides, stress or simply bad nutrition that will lead to a stupid high rise in premature deaths. At that point nobody will remember why that happened so who cares right?
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:57 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.


Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely.


Of course not. Just like you can't isolate ANY segment of the population "completely". But it would be A LOT easier to isolate the 15 or 20% of the population that is considered at risk, vs. just locking everyone down. And, it wouldn't be crippling our economy.

Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?


Of course we can. I'm amazed that you're arguing that it's harder to lockdown a fraction of the population vs. locking down the entire population. You're basically saying - Instead of making it suck for 20% of the population, it's better to make it suck for 100%. That's incredible.

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


No. If our government has shown anything over the last 30 years, it's that it can't take care of its population. And, what's more, I don't want the government trying to take care of me and my family. I can do that much more effectively on my own.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:11 pm

2122M wrote:
If we reopen too soon an 50,000 more die from Coronavirus, what the remedy for them and their families? Stop crying it was for the greater good?


COVID19 is here to stay for quite some time. And the other bad news, in the fall we might have it back with force. By the time a vaccine comes around, if its effective, basing on the antibody studies that have been released thus far, I am confident 60-70% of the population would have had the virus, despite the measures, despite anything. Pretty much herd immunity is what we should look forward to.

Chances are that if you are under 60 or 50 and have no underlying health conditions, your risks of dying are pretty slim, I posted an statistic that for the age group under 45 in Florida its under 0.1% including those with underlying health conditions.

We are going to learn how to live with COVID, we have practiced and had training these past few weeks (or months) on how to socially distance, how the need to wash hands, to wear a mask, we have been going to the grocery store, etc. No point in keeping 100% of the population home, and tank the economy (no way around it) for just a small fraction of the population that can stay home. Hospital infrastructure should be there ready for the fall, more PPE, and equipment should be ready for that.

In any case the damage has already been done, the big mistake of shutting down this economy can't be undone. We are looking at the very least a recession, but the depression is next, by the look of the employment data, never in the history of this nation has so many lost their jobs in such a short amount of time. Its done.

Now we need to see how we convince people that you won't die from it, all the while the MSM is preaching panic and showing how one in thousands of young healthy people have died in order to justify keeping these measures for an indefinite amount of time, prolonging the economic calamity and reducing the amount of time for a quick recovery.

This will turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of civilization. Shutting down an economy just based on fear and panic. Now politicians are trying to promote their hidden agendas, by proposing to extend this lock down they show that they have an ulterior motive, which is political.
 
GDB
Posts: 14398
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:07 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. I mean there was no real need to lock down entire states, when the data shows that there is virtually no serious risk to anyone under 50 with no pre-existing conditions. (Yes, there are some exceptions... just like there are for everything.) But, by and large, the under 50 population could've done well with some sensible social distancing and hygiene improvements, while locking down targeted segments of the population.

And, the whole "if it looks like we overreacted, then what we did worked" line of reasoning is bogus. By that line of thinking, no reaction would've been too much.


The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.


Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


Hate to break it to you, however there are plenty of tragic accounts of people under 50, not all with underlying health problems, who have died. Medics being very prominent. (Or as TTT as his ilk call them, 'actors').
Of course the elderly and those with underlying conditions are more likely to die, it just isn't as simple as that.

And who is to say a second wave would not be more dangerous to a wider group?
The last great worldwide pandemic, of 1918/19, came in two waves, the latter in the fall was worse.

There is a case and here in the UK it's being tentatively mooted, is a 'traffic light' style return, yes that would be predicated on age and health, some car plants and other industries are going to begin work again, under social distancing restrictions, similar to what essential workers are doing now.

It seems however that these attitudes show something, many have berated China, certainly the government, which is fair enough.
But in Asia, the elderly are treated with respect.
What we are hearing from the US, not only the President but plenty of others, largely from the GOP, shows a deeply inhumane society, at least in many of it's leaders and those they really serve.
 
2122M
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:32 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely.


Of course not. Just like you can't isolate ANY segment of the population "completely". But it would be A LOT easier to isolate the 15 or 20% of the population that is considered at risk, vs. just locking everyone down. And, it wouldn't be crippling our economy.

Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?


Of course we can. I'm amazed that you're arguing that it's harder to lockdown a fraction of the population vs. locking down the entire population. You're basically saying - Instead of making it suck for 20% of the population, it's better to make it suck for 100%. That's incredible.

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


No. If our government has shown anything over the last 30 years, it's that it can't take care of its population. And, what's more, I don't want the government trying to take care of me and my family. I can do that much more effectively on my own.


Of course its easier to lock-down a whole population. A partial lockdown is harder to enforce and does less to stem the spread of the virus. Simple as that.

There is a global viral pandemic. It sucks. Its going to suck for awhile. Its going to hurt the economy and change the way we do things for a while. Deal with it.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
keeping these measures for an indefinite amount of time


Or until there have been 14 days of a consistent decline in cases, as is the federal guidance.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
This will turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of civilization.


Now who's being alarmist?!?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:02 pm

2122M wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
This will turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of civilization.


Now who's being alarmist?!?

I'm betting that will be an ignored asteroid warning.... (Or will it global climate change? Dun dun DUN!)

Tugg
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13952
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
2122M wrote:
If we reopen too soon an 50,000 more die from Coronavirus, what the remedy for them and their families? Stop crying it was for the greater good?


COVID19 is here to stay for quite some time. And the other bad news, in the fall we might have it back with force. By the time a vaccine comes around, if its effective, basing on the antibody studies that have been released thus far, I am confident 60-70% of the population would have had the virus, despite the measures, despite anything. Pretty much herd immunity is what we should look forward to.

Chances are that if you are under 60 or 50 and have no underlying health conditions, your risks of dying are pretty slim, I posted an statistic that for the age group under 45 in Florida its under 0.1% including those with underlying health conditions.

We are going to learn how to live with COVID, we have practiced and had training these past few weeks (or months) on how to socially distance, how the need to wash hands, to wear a mask, we have been going to the grocery store, etc. No point in keeping 100% of the population home, and tank the economy (no way around it) for just a small fraction of the population that can stay home. Hospital infrastructure should be there ready for the fall, more PPE, and equipment should be ready for that.

In any case the damage has already been done, the big mistake of shutting down this economy can't be undone. We are looking at the very least a recession, but the depression is next, by the look of the employment data, never in the history of this nation has so many lost their jobs in such a short amount of time. Its done.



Now we need to see how we convince people that you won't die from it, all the while the MSM is preaching panic and showing how one in thousands of young healthy people have died in order to justify keeping these measures for an indefinite amount of time, prolonging the economic calamity and reducing the amount of time for a quick recovery.

This will turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of civilization. Shutting down an economy just based on fear and panic. Now politicians are trying to promote their hidden agendas, by proposing to extend this lock down they show that they have an ulterior motive, which is political.


What does an economy matter vs life itself? Ask yourself that really quick Then think about it for awhile . Does life exist because of an economy? or does an economy exist because of life? Do bears care about an economy? Do birds?
 
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SuperGee
Posts: 127
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:17 am

Stupid things observed during Covid? Where does one even start?

How about this one? Rudy Guiliani saying on Fox News that contact tracing for Covid-19 is ridiculous and if you're going to contact trace for Covid-19, you should contact trace for cancer, heart disease, and obesity among other things.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics ... index.html
 
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Aesma
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:57 am

PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare.


Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.


Different topic but to reply to the thought - if one is arguing that complete lock downs are good then a proper response should have had protective measures covering financial aid implemented at the same time IF not before locking tens of millions of people out of their ability to make money.


Well for that you need coordination between the executive and legislative branches.

In my country this is what happened, the support measures were announced at the same time as the lockdown, however the president has an absolute majority in the national assembly, so when he announces something, it happens.
 
2122M
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Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:21 am

PixelPilot wrote:
2122M wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

They are working. Absolutely. They are also removing peoples ability to have food and/or pay bills. Very effective at that.
Wonder which one will have larger impact in the long run. Especially on healthcare.


Sounds like a great argument for strengthening the social safety net in this country. Maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest country in the world should not have to make a choice between definitely saving lives now or potentially saving lives later.


Different topic but to reply to the thought - if one is arguing that complete lock downs are good then a proper response should have had protective measures covering financial aid implemented at the same time IF not before locking tens of millions of people out of their ability to make money.


I agree completely. A strong social safety net equipped to handle something like this.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20132
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:46 am

SuperGee wrote:
Stupid things observed during Covid? Where does one even start?

How about this one? Rudy Guiliani saying on Fox News that contact tracing for Covid-19 is ridiculous and if you're going to contact trace for Covid-19, you should contact trace for cancer, heart disease, and obesity among other things.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics ... index.html


Giuliani and Trump are completely off the smart scale (but not at the good end).
 
GDB
Posts: 14398
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:14 am

So he now says he was being sarcastic.
Not possible, since that requires a sense of humour, which he does not have.
Rather more likely is this;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16036
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:12 am

PixelPilot wrote:
#2 if #1 not possible then quarantine targeted communities / counties and not entire states. What's the point of keeping entire state in quarantine if certain counties are laying off nurses and doctors due to having no patients what so ever?? Dumbest thing I ever heard.


Dumbest thing ever are circular emotional arguments when the *rational* argument already made by epidemiologists is ramping up testing so that we can get expeditiously into the phase where we *can* do targeted risk assessment and localized quarantines. Right now that’s impossible without having the data. All of you who want the foot off the brake should be clamoring for our leaders to resolve the testing deadlocks so that we can move to the next phase pronto. It won’t happen without the testing infrastructure in place.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:17 am

GDB wrote:
So he now says he was being sarcastic.
Not possible, since that requires a sense of humour, which he does not have.
Rather more likely is this;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus


Trump has a very good sense of humor. It was hilarious when he ordered for Chris Christie when they all went out for dinner after the election. And he is constantly trolling his haters. And they take the bait every time.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
What does an economy matter vs life itself? Ask yourself that really quick Then think about it for awhile . Does life exist because of an economy? or does an economy exist because of life? Do bears care about an economy? Do birds?


Life is worth more than money, and I won't express my religious beliefs here to further expand on it.

But is there a way that we could live life without money? we can starve, or we can die from health issues. If not look at Lesotho a country in Africa, life expectancy is 52 years, they have a short life because of poverty.

And from your vantage point, are you willing to trade not getting COVID for your job? because there are millions out there that haven't got COVID and lost their jobs because of COVID. Are you willing to switch your essential job in order to become unemployed? Its very good to preach, health over economy when you have a good job and don't need to worry about your job and only your health. Check out what my signature says on the bottom.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:25 pm

GDB wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

The whole point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus. Lots of people under 50 and healthy can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms or being sick at all.


Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


Hate to break it to you, however there are plenty of tragic accounts of people under 50, not all with underlying health problems, who have died. Medics being very prominent. (Or as TTT as his ilk call them, 'actors').
Of course the elderly and those with underlying conditions are more likely to die, it just isn't as simple as that.


Actually, it is that simple. Go look at the data - not the media hysteria, but the actual data. The CDC makes it available, and other groups (usually universities) make their data available, too. Just looking at the CDC's cumulative hospitalization rate data, you'll see that the 18-49 year old group has a rate of 0.015%. The 5-17 year old group has a cumulative rate of hospitalization of 0.0004%.

If that's just the hospitalization rate, imagine what the ICU and death rates are. Actually, you don't have to imagine - a lot of the data is out there and freely available. And, the majority of deaths, even in the elderly, are people with pre-existing conditions - often multiple pre-existing conditions.

Aside from a few edge cases, the fact remains, and the data backs it up - if you're under 50 (really, even under 60) and relatively healthy, you've got very, very little to worry about. If you're over 60 and relatively healthy, the odds are still stacked overwhelmingly in your favor.

And who is to say a second wave would not be more dangerous to a wider group?
The last great worldwide pandemic, of 1918/19, came in two waves, the latter in the fall was worse.


Sure, but the second waves of MERS and SARS weren't. So, who's to say? And we can't destroy our economy based on what-ifs. Let's get more data and take the necessary steps, instead of running scared.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:30 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

You can't isolate older people from people over 50 completely.


Of course not. Just like you can't isolate ANY segment of the population "completely". But it would be A LOT easier to isolate the 15 or 20% of the population that is considered at risk, vs. just locking everyone down. And, it wouldn't be crippling our economy.

Nursing home staff tend to be under 50. Are they allowed to go out and about and mingle when they know they'll be in close contact with at-risk people on a regular basis? Maybe we lock them down too? Need to keep them away from their families who are also under 50 and don't work with the elderly to be safe. But we can't really tell a family they have to split up because one of them has a job with older people, can we?


Of course we can. I'm amazed that you're arguing that it's harder to lockdown a fraction of the population vs. locking down the entire population. You're basically saying - Instead of making it suck for 20% of the population, it's better to make it suck for 100%. That's incredible.

Or... we just suck it up as a nation for a month or so to make sure we get this under control. We're the richest nation in the world, surely the government should be able to take care of its population for a month or so.


No. If our government has shown anything over the last 30 years, it's that it can't take care of its population. And, what's more, I don't want the government trying to take care of me and my family. I can do that much more effectively on my own.


Of course its easier to lock-down a whole population.


It's just incredible to me that you continue to think this, but to each his own.

There is a global viral pandemic. It sucks. Its going to suck for awhile. Its going to hurt the economy and change the way we do things for a while. Deal with it.


Sure. And more and more people are demanding an evidence-based approach to the virus, and are starting to protest, which is leading governments to rethink their ridiculous overreactions. Deal with it.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:38 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Of course not. Just like you can't isolate ANY segment of the population "completely". But it would be A LOT easier to isolate the 15 or 20% of the population that is considered at risk, vs. just locking everyone down. And, it wouldn't be crippling our economy.



Of course we can. I'm amazed that you're arguing that it's harder to lockdown a fraction of the population vs. locking down the entire population. You're basically saying - Instead of making it suck for 20% of the population, it's better to make it suck for 100%. That's incredible.



No. If our government has shown anything over the last 30 years, it's that it can't take care of its population. And, what's more, I don't want the government trying to take care of me and my family. I can do that much more effectively on my own.


Of course its easier to lock-down a whole population.


It's just incredible to me that you continue to think this, but to each his own.

There is a global viral pandemic. It sucks. Its going to suck for awhile. Its going to hurt the economy and change the way we do things for a while. Deal with it.


Sure. And more and more people are demanding an evidence-based approach to the virus, and are starting to protest, which is leading governments to rethink their ridiculous overreactions. Deal with it.


Well doctors, nurses, medical professionals and the people they advise all seem to disagree with you. Where did you get your medical degree?
 
GDB
Posts: 14398
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:48 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
GDB wrote:
So he now says he was being sarcastic.
Not possible, since that requires a sense of humour, which he does not have.
Rather more likely is this;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus


Trump has a very good sense of humor. It was hilarious when he ordered for Chris Christie when they all went out for dinner after the election. And he is constantly trolling his haters. And they take the bait every time.


No he hasn't, just you don't know what a sense of humour is.
'Trolling' is not humour, as any reasonably intelligent adult knows.
I also note you have no answer to the link, likely the real reason for being an even bigger snake oil salesman than he's always been, this time with potentially lethal results.
 
GDB
Posts: 14398
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:50 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

Of course its easier to lock-down a whole population.


It's just incredible to me that you continue to think this, but to each his own.

There is a global viral pandemic. It sucks. Its going to suck for awhile. Its going to hurt the economy and change the way we do things for a while. Deal with it.


Sure. And more and more people are demanding an evidence-based approach to the virus, and are starting to protest, which is leading governments to rethink their ridiculous overreactions. Deal with it.


Well doctors, nurses, medical professionals and the people they advise all seem to disagree with you. Where did you get your medical degree?


Maybe 'Liberty University?'
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