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seb146
Posts: 22533
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:26 pm

NoTime wrote:
GDB wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Exactly, which is why they shouldn't be locked down at all. The vast majority of people under 50 that get the virus will experience very little in the way of symptoms. Why lock those people down? We are locking down 100% of our population (minus essential workers, of course) for the sake of the oldest 15%. There is a much smarter way to go about this, that doesn't cripple our economy.


Hate to break it to you, however there are plenty of tragic accounts of people under 50, not all with underlying health problems, who have died. Medics being very prominent. (Or as TTT as his ilk call them, 'actors').
Of course the elderly and those with underlying conditions are more likely to die, it just isn't as simple as that.


Actually, it is that simple. Go look at the data - not the media hysteria, but the actual data. The CDC makes it available, and other groups (usually universities) make their data available, too. Just looking at the CDC's cumulative hospitalization rate data, you'll see that the 18-49 year old group has a rate of 0.015%. The 5-17 year old group has a cumulative rate of hospitalization of 0.0004%.

If that's just the hospitalization rate, imagine what the ICU and death rates are. Actually, you don't have to imagine - a lot of the data is out there and freely available. And, the majority of deaths, even in the elderly, are people with pre-existing conditions - often multiple pre-existing conditions.

Aside from a few edge cases, the fact remains, and the data backs it up - if you're under 50 (really, even under 60) and relatively healthy, you've got very, very little to worry about. If you're over 60 and relatively healthy, the odds are still stacked overwhelmingly in your favor.

And who is to say a second wave would not be more dangerous to a wider group?
The last great worldwide pandemic, of 1918/19, came in two waves, the latter in the fall was worse.


Sure, but the second waves of MERS and SARS weren't. So, who's to say? And we can't destroy our economy based on what-ifs. Let's get more data and take the necessary steps, instead of running scared.


We do not have the testing kits. We don't know who has it and who does not. People can be asymptomatic and still transmit. That has already been proven. Covid does not care about your feelings or your "need" to drinkin' down the pub or sitting in Chili's or your age. If you are willing to take that chance, if you are willing to sit next to someone you do not know because you need to spend money and risk getting sick and possibly dying, go for it. Georgia is opening. Let us know how that turns out.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NoTime
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:59 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

Of course its easier to lock-down a whole population.


It's just incredible to me that you continue to think this, but to each his own.

There is a global viral pandemic. It sucks. Its going to suck for awhile. Its going to hurt the economy and change the way we do things for a while. Deal with it.


Sure. And more and more people are demanding an evidence-based approach to the virus, and are starting to protest, which is leading governments to rethink their ridiculous overreactions. Deal with it.


Well doctors, nurses, medical professionals and the people they advise all seem to disagree with you. Where did you get your medical degree?


(Can an admin explain to me why my earlier post was removed? There were no insults or name calling, just a link to an opposing viewpoint...?)

Anyhow, yes - I was wondering how long it would take for someone to resort to the "appeal to authority" fallacy. You were the first, congrats.

I can dig up example of "doctors, nurses, medical professionals" saying that we are overreacting. Here's one, for a start - https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... -isolation

But, like I've said multiple times, the data is there for you to see with your own eyes. You don't need an appeal to authority, just look at the numbers. All of the data says we are overreacting by locking down entire states.
 
NoTime
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
GDB wrote:

Hate to break it to you, however there are plenty of tragic accounts of people under 50, not all with underlying health problems, who have died. Medics being very prominent. (Or as TTT as his ilk call them, 'actors').
Of course the elderly and those with underlying conditions are more likely to die, it just isn't as simple as that.


Actually, it is that simple. Go look at the data - not the media hysteria, but the actual data. The CDC makes it available, and other groups (usually universities) make their data available, too. Just looking at the CDC's cumulative hospitalization rate data, you'll see that the 18-49 year old group has a rate of 0.015%. The 5-17 year old group has a cumulative rate of hospitalization of 0.0004%.

If that's just the hospitalization rate, imagine what the ICU and death rates are. Actually, you don't have to imagine - a lot of the data is out there and freely available. And, the majority of deaths, even in the elderly, are people with pre-existing conditions - often multiple pre-existing conditions.

Aside from a few edge cases, the fact remains, and the data backs it up - if you're under 50 (really, even under 60) and relatively healthy, you've got very, very little to worry about. If you're over 60 and relatively healthy, the odds are still stacked overwhelmingly in your favor.

And who is to say a second wave would not be more dangerous to a wider group?
The last great worldwide pandemic, of 1918/19, came in two waves, the latter in the fall was worse.


Sure, but the second waves of MERS and SARS weren't. So, who's to say? And we can't destroy our economy based on what-ifs. Let's get more data and take the necessary steps, instead of running scared.


Covid does not care about ... your age.


That is a blatant lie. Go look at the facts. Statistically, Covid cares very much about your age, and if you're under 50, you have very little to worry about.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:18 pm

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Actually, it is that simple. Go look at the data - not the media hysteria, but the actual data. The CDC makes it available, and other groups (usually universities) make their data available, too. Just looking at the CDC's cumulative hospitalization rate data, you'll see that the 18-49 year old group has a rate of 0.015%. The 5-17 year old group has a cumulative rate of hospitalization of 0.0004%.
If that's just the hospitalization rate, imagine what the ICU and death rates are. Actually, you don't have to imagine - a lot of the data is out there and freely available. And, the majority of deaths, even in the elderly, are people with pre-existing conditions - often multiple pre-existing conditions.
Aside from a few edge cases, the fact remains, and the data backs it up - if you're under 50 (really, even under 60) and relatively healthy, you've got very, very little to worry about. If you're over 60 and relatively healthy, the odds are still stacked overwhelmingly in your favor.

Sure, but the second waves of MERS and SARS weren't. So, who's to say? And we can't destroy our economy based on what-ifs. Let's get more data and take the necessary steps, instead of running scared.

Covid does not care about ... your age.

That is a blatant lie. Go look at the facts. Statistically, Covid cares very much about your age, and if you're under 50, you have very little to worry about.


No, it is not a lie. The death rate among people infected with Covid-19 is much higher at older ages (as well as with anyone with some other medical conditions, but there is no evidence that the infection rate is any lower - and it is just that infection rate that allows Covid-19 to expand exponentially between anyone who has contacted the disease, and spread it to anyone who has come in contact with them. Maybe if "you're under 50, you have very little to worry about" if you don't mind killing others... but that is hardly ideal for the rest of us.

Indeed, it is probably a more dangerous situation when younger people - who may be asymptomatic - carry the virus, because, not knowing about their condition and what it means to their contacts, means they may be spreading the disease to anyone around them - young and old - without anyone's knowledge.

Until it is too late. And that is a truly stupid thing.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
NoTime
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:28 pm

alfa164 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Covid does not care about ... your age.

That is a blatant lie. Go look at the facts. Statistically, Covid cares very much about your age, and if you're under 50, you have very little to worry about.


No, it is not a lie. The death rate among people infected with Covid-19 is much higher at older ages (as well as with anyone with some other medical conditions, but there is no evidence that the infection rate is any lower - and it is just that infection rate that allows Covid-19 to expand exponentially between anyone who has contacted the disease, and spread it to anyone who has come in contact with them. Maybe if "you're under 50, you have very little to worry about" if you don't mind killing others... but that is hardly ideal for the rest of us.

Indeed, it is probably a more dangerous situation when younger people - who may be asymptomatic - carry the virus, because, not knowing about their condition and what it means to their contacts, means they may be spreading the disease to anyone around them - young and old - without anyone's knowledge.


Come on man, no one is arguing the infection rate - which appears to be 20x to 80x higher than initially thought. But, you're making my point for me. Lock down the at-risk people, not the entire country. The majority of the population will have no symptoms if/when they get the virus.

Again, you're choosing to "make it suck" for 100% of the population, when you could get the same results by just making it suck for 20%. (And, oh, by the way, you could avoid destroying the economy to such a terrible degree.) Is that out of spite, blind loyalty to authorities or abject fear?
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:29 pm

alfa164 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Covid does not care about ... your age.

That is a blatant lie. Go look at the facts. Statistically, Covid cares very much about your age, and if you're under 50, you have very little to worry about.


No, it is not a lie. The death rate among people infected with Covid-19 is much higher at older ages (as well as with anyone with some other medical conditions, but there is no evidence that the infection rate is any lower - and it is just that infection rate that allows Covid-19 to expand exponentially between anyone who has contacted the disease, and spread it to anyone who has come in contact with them. Maybe if "you're under 50, you have very little to worry about" if you don't mind killing others... but that is hardly ideal for the rest of us.

Indeed, it is probably a more dangerous situation when younger people - who may be asymptomatic - carry the virus, because, not knowing about their condition and what it means to their contacts, means they may be spreading the disease to anyone around them - young and old - without anyone's knowledge.

Until it is too late. And that is a truly stupid thing.


Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.

If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.

You and the rest of the people in favor of keeping this going on indefinitely are just extending the inevitable which is, we all are going to get COVID19. Face it, unless you wish to hide for 12 to 18 months and not ever go out hoping just hoping that a vaccine is out and is effective. Otherwise you will expose yourself and get COVID anyways.

Stupid is to falsely believe that COVID will simply vanish from earth on its own, and hoping that all of us stay inside our caves is a long term strategy.

Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%

For those 55 and under the same data says 0.24% of people dying from COVID, including those with health conditions. My assumption this is well bellow 0.1% for those under 55.

But here is the data https://floridadisaster.org/globalasset ... 4-1640.pdf
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11587
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:01 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
What does an economy matter vs life itself? Ask yourself that really quick Then think about it for awhile . Does life exist because of an economy? or does an economy exist because of life? Do bears care about an economy? Do birds?


Life is worth more than money, and I won't express my religious beliefs here to further expand on it.

But is there a way that we could live life without money? we can starve, or we can die from health issues. If not look at Lesotho a country in Africa, life expectancy is 52 years, they have a short life because of poverty.

And from your vantage point, are you willing to trade not getting COVID for your job? because there are millions out there that haven't got COVID and lost their jobs because of COVID. Are you willing to switch your essential job in order to become unemployed? Its very good to preach, health over economy when you have a good job and don't need to worry about your job and only your health. Check out what my signature says on the bottom.


It's not a matter of what we lose in terms of jobs. Jobs can adapt, especially if we are isolating. There are going to be countless shifts from brick and mortar to online shopping, and transit jobs may be victims ass well. I partially expect within 2 months more economies will open, but they will be slow to swing up as during this battle, countless people will stay away from big events.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
#2 if #1 not possible then quarantine targeted communities / counties and not entire states. What's the point of keeping entire state in quarantine if certain counties are laying off nurses and doctors due to having no patients what so ever?? Dumbest thing I ever heard.


Dumbest thing ever are circular emotional arguments when the *rational* argument already made by epidemiologists is ramping up testing so that we can get expeditiously into the phase where we *can* do targeted risk assessment and localized quarantines. Right now that’s impossible without having the data. All of you who want the foot off the brake should be clamoring for our leaders to resolve the testing deadlocks so that we can move to the next phase pronto. It won’t happen without the testing infrastructure in place.

I was going to say similar. The one thing those who nonsensically shout, without actual intelligent thought, "We want to shop and go out and do whatever we want, consequences be damned" don't understand is this: #1 (above) is the plan!

Yes folks the entire idea is to only quarantine targeted communities as soon as possible. But guess what you need in order to do that? Testing! That is coming available now. As everything comes back online, outbreaks will occur, testing will identify the origin, tracing will identify those at risk or infected, quarantine and care will occur, and the community will be careful and engage strong safety measures, and then once the situation is contained the community will reopen as communities are now.

And that is happening, that many communities ARE OPENING. Completely laying to waste the claim by our few bombastic fearmongering posters. In California beaches are opening, parks and trails are opening. And the public is so far demonstrating intelligence and following smart steps to keep safe. (Of then there are the idiots that "protest" that are all together without any care who want to lock things down again. Seriously, they must or they wouldn't do that. I think they want to encourage another shutdown in some vain attempt to prove "See the government is attacking our rights!") And plans are being worked to reopen businesses where possible, where needed. And people are being cautious and most are being smart when out, and this cycle will continue.

And ultimately, other than a vaccine, I think it is treatment, being able to understand the diseases progression, successfully manage the symptoms and treat those infected safely with proper staffed and planned resources, that will allow things to "return" to whatever normal might be. This comes from learning now what works and what doesn't what patients need and what the signs are of problems and success, what safety tools are needed, what are overkill and or not needed or effective, and in general how to be safe and keep people safe while successfully assisting the patients. That is what is making this so difficult right now, that we don't have that.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
alfa164
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:25 pm

NoTime wrote:
Lock down the at-risk people, not the entire country. The majority of the population will have no symptoms if/when they get the virus.Again, you're choosing to "make it suck" for 100% of the population, when you could get the same results by just making it suck for 20%. (And, oh, by the way, you could avoid destroying the economy to such a terrible degree.) Is that out of spite, blind loyalty to authorities or abject fear?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%



It is amazing the some people thing. "it is okay to get the virus... if it doesn't kill you...", and want to allow transmission - and increased infections - for nothing but selfish economic reasons. Sure, the death rate among "at risk" parties is greater - but that does not mean the suffering is any less for younger people. And to admit "opening-up" the country now would increase the spread of the disease, but to be so nonchalant about the results, shows a total disregard for other humans... or perhaps a hidden agenda.


https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200326/young-people-far-from-immune-to-coronavirus-bite


"So let the young people suffer - I have a golf game I want to attend!"


Tugger wrote:
The one thing those who nonsensically shout, without actual intelligent thought, "We want to shop and go out and do whatever we want, consequences be damned" don't understand is this: #1 (above) is the plan!



:checkmark: Until there is adequate testing (and no, Herr Trump, there is not adequate testing now), any broad relaxation of the rules is simply a ticking time bomb.



AirWorthy99 wrote:
Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.



Au contraire, the politically expedient thing to do would be to disregard all the medical and scientific evidence, end any restrictions, and let the chips fall where they may. Fortunately, cooler heads prevail... for now.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22533
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:38 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
NoTime wrote:

That is a blatant lie. Go look at the facts. Statistically, Covid cares very much about your age, and if you're under 50, you have very little to worry about.


No, it is not a lie. The death rate among people infected with Covid-19 is much higher at older ages (as well as with anyone with some other medical conditions, but there is no evidence that the infection rate is any lower - and it is just that infection rate that allows Covid-19 to expand exponentially between anyone who has contacted the disease, and spread it to anyone who has come in contact with them. Maybe if "you're under 50, you have very little to worry about" if you don't mind killing others... but that is hardly ideal for the rest of us.

Indeed, it is probably a more dangerous situation when younger people - who may be asymptomatic - carry the virus, because, not knowing about their condition and what it means to their contacts, means they may be spreading the disease to anyone around them - young and old - without anyone's knowledge.

Until it is too late. And that is a truly stupid thing.


Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.

If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.

You and the rest of the people in favor of keeping this going on indefinitely are just extending the inevitable which is, we all are going to get COVID19. Face it, unless you wish to hide for 12 to 18 months and not ever go out hoping just hoping that a vaccine is out and is effective. Otherwise you will expose yourself and get COVID anyways.

Stupid is to falsely believe that COVID will simply vanish from earth on its own, and hoping that all of us stay inside our caves is a long term strategy.

Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%

For those 55 and under the same data says 0.24% of people dying from COVID, including those with health conditions. My assumption this is well bellow 0.1% for those under 55.

But here is the data https://floridadisaster.org/globalasset ... 4-1640.pdf


Anyone can be a carrier. Anyone. Age does not matter. Anyone can die from this. A-N-Y-O-N-E ANYONE ANY ONE Yes, it is less likely you will die if you are under 50. It is great (horrific) that these right wing "Christian" people are so willing to sacrifice those over 50. Look at all the people you know over 50. If you are comfortable with any number of them dying, fine. If you are comfortable with those under 50 dying maybe or maybe not, fine. Go on. I am not.

And this is not "for ever" as you insist, AirWorthy. This is until we find a vaccine or cure or until our bodies adapt and it runs it's course. I am sorry you can not get a hair cut or be at a sports event or concert. Believe me, I would love to be at a hockey game. The Canucks were on a roll. But, I am not willing to watch my mother, my mother-in-law, my aunts, my uncles die because I want hockey back. I can wait. Hockey will be back. The Canucks will hoist The Cup. I will never have another mother.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:07 pm

alfa164 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Lock down the at-risk people, not the entire country. The majority of the population will have no symptoms if/when they get the virus.Again, you're choosing to "make it suck" for 100% of the population, when you could get the same results by just making it suck for 20%. (And, oh, by the way, you could avoid destroying the economy to such a terrible degree.) Is that out of spite, blind loyalty to authorities or abject fear?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%



It is amazing the some people thing. "it is okay to get the virus... if it doesn't kill you...", and want to allow transmission - and increased infections - for nothing but selfish economic reasons. Sure, the death rate among "at risk" parties is greater - but that does not mean the suffering is any less for younger people. And to admit "opening-up" the country now would increase the spread of the disease, but to be so nonchalant about the results, shows a total disregard for other humans... or perhaps a hidden agenda.



https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200326/young-people-far-from-immune-to-coronavirus-bite


"So let the young people suffer - I have a golf game I want to attend!"


Tugger wrote:
The one thing those who nonsensically shout, without actual intelligent thought, "We want to shop and go out and do whatever we want, consequences be damned" don't understand is this: #1 (above) is the plan!



:checkmark: Until there is adequate testing (and no, Herr Trump, there is not adequate testing now), any broad relaxation of the rules is simply a ticking time bomb.



AirWorthy99 wrote:
Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.



Au contraire, the politically expedient thing to do would be to disregard all the medical and scientific evidence, end any restrictions, and let the chips fall where they may. Fortunately, cooler heads prevail... for now.


I guess now the narrative is we should keep everything closed just in the US.

Europe which has gotten the worse of this virus, has started to open: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/ ... lockdowns/

Would everything you are accusing me or the US apply to them as well?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:02 pm

I have a feeling a lot of the people that are pro full lock downs are like the celebrities that complain their mansions feel like jails and sing songs to pretend they are with you lol.
Total disconnect with real life and majority of regular folks.
 
NoTime
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

No, it is not a lie. The death rate among people infected with Covid-19 is much higher at older ages (as well as with anyone with some other medical conditions, but there is no evidence that the infection rate is any lower - and it is just that infection rate that allows Covid-19 to expand exponentially between anyone who has contacted the disease, and spread it to anyone who has come in contact with them. Maybe if "you're under 50, you have very little to worry about" if you don't mind killing others... but that is hardly ideal for the rest of us.

Indeed, it is probably a more dangerous situation when younger people - who may be asymptomatic - carry the virus, because, not knowing about their condition and what it means to their contacts, means they may be spreading the disease to anyone around them - young and old - without anyone's knowledge.

Until it is too late. And that is a truly stupid thing.


Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.

If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.

You and the rest of the people in favor of keeping this going on indefinitely are just extending the inevitable which is, we all are going to get COVID19. Face it, unless you wish to hide for 12 to 18 months and not ever go out hoping just hoping that a vaccine is out and is effective. Otherwise you will expose yourself and get COVID anyways.

Stupid is to falsely believe that COVID will simply vanish from earth on its own, and hoping that all of us stay inside our caves is a long term strategy.

Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%

For those 55 and under the same data says 0.24% of people dying from COVID, including those with health conditions. My assumption this is well bellow 0.1% for those under 55.

But here is the data https://floridadisaster.org/globalasset ... 4-1640.pdf


Anyone can be a carrier. Anyone. Age does not matter. Anyone can die from this. A-N-Y-O-N-E ANYONE ANY ONE


Yes, just like anyone can die from a lightning strike, but we're not wrecking the economy for thunderstorms. Anyone can die from the virus, but the vast, vast majority won't... most won't even have any symptoms from the virus.

Yes, it is less likely you will die if you are under 50.


That's such an understatement, it's ridiculous.

It is great (horrific) that these right wing "Christian" people are so willing to sacrifice those over 50.


No one is willing to sacrifice anyone, we're just asking for sensible reactions... not blind, wailing panic.

Look at all the people you know over 50. If you are comfortable with any number of them dying, fine.


What are you even talking about? It's as if you don't think elderly people are capable of self-quarantining themselves. And if 20% of the population (the elderly and at risk) is not capable of it, then why are we even trying it with 100%?

This is until we find a vaccine or cure


Most estimates say a vaccine is at least another 6 months away, others say there may never be a vaccine. If you wait until that long to lift the lock downs, there won't be a country left to go back to (or there will be one destroyed by riots and unrest.)

...or until our bodies adapt and it runs it's course.


And here we can see how clearly you have thought this out - How, exactly, do you expect our bodies to adapt if you don't lift the lock downs and let people congregate?

I've spent enough time rebutting fear-laced opinions that don't appear to be based on the actual data that we have at hand. So, I'll end with two things:

First, it's surprising and disappointing to see the actual cold, hard facts and data just tossed aside in favor of fear. Out of the first 34,600 hospitalizations in NYC, for those under 18 years of age, hospitalization from the virus is 0.01 percent per 100,000 people; for those 18 to 44 years old, hospitalization is 0.1 percent per 100,000. Even for people ages 65 to 74, only 1.7 percent were hospitalized. And that's based on known cases... when you factor in that the anti-body tests are showing that the actual number of infections is 10x to 80x higher, then those numbers become even more insignificant.

I'd be curious to see the cross section of people saying we have to keep everything locked down, despite the data, and people that play the lottery, thinking they have a good chance to win. I'm guessing there's a connection and a shared aptitude (or lack thereof) of computing odds.

Second, someone was hinting at hidden agendas up-thread. Please... if anyone has hidden agendas or ulterior motives, it's the people who have been screaming "orange man bad" for the last four years and now finally see a way to get him out of the White House by wrecking the economy.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:33 pm

seb146 wrote:
...The Canucks will hoist The Cup...


Crazy talk! :)
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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seb146
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:20 pm

NoTime wrote:
I'd be curious to see the cross section of people saying we have to keep everything locked down, despite the data, and people that play the lottery, thinking they have a good chance to win. I'm guessing there's a connection and a shared aptitude (or lack thereof) of computing odds.

Second, someone was hinting at hidden agendas up-thread. Please... if anyone has hidden agendas or ulterior motives, it's the people who have been screaming "orange man bad" for the last four years and now finally see a way to get him out of the White House by wrecking the economy.


Here's the thing:

we are not in prison. I could make a very graphic distinction between prison and what we are going through but, this is a family board, so I will not. Let's just say that you can still go to the store and buy smokes and alcohol at your leisure.

Again, because you "all lives matter" types are so gung-ho about Russian roulette, go on. Gather in large groups. Share a virus (or several) but keep to yourselves. Do not force the rest of us to live out your "but how were we to know" scenario when there is not enough hospital and morgue space.

As far as your "orange man bad" comment, there has been proof. Every single damn day for the past four years. Complete with links and videos of how insane he and his cult followers are. But, actual physical proof of how inept and dangerous someone is is not proof enough for some reason.......
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:34 pm

NoTime wrote:
No one is willing to sacrifice anyone, we're just asking for sensible reactions... not blind, wailing panic.

WHAT. IS. THE. PLAN? No one is in "wailing panic" but other than "opening up"--but not Georgia it's too soon :rotfl: --there is no GOP plan. None. Just swinging from self induced crisis to self induced crisis and shining UV lights up your butts and injecting disinfectant. And that is not even stretching the truth. How does this admin expect to open up the economy without any plan? Prayer? We've had dozens of hours of Don taking us on a live guided tour of his dementia, and not a soul can tell us what the plan is, when we *know* ramped up testing would both control the spread of the virus and accelerate a return to a more open economy. Plenty of other countries have done it. Germany and New Zealand are already opening up carefully. But they also don't have leaders who are mentally disabled and wasted weeks of precious time ignoring, downplaying, and actively making the pandemic exponentially worse.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Lock down the at-risk people, not the entire country. The majority of the population will have no symptoms if/when they get the virus.Again, you're choosing to "make it suck" for 100% of the population, when you could get the same results by just making it suck for 20%. (And, oh, by the way, you could avoid destroying the economy to such a terrible degree.) Is that out of spite, blind loyalty to authorities or abject fear?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%



It is amazing the some people thing. "it is okay to get the virus... if it doesn't kill you...", and want to allow transmission - and increased infections - for nothing but selfish economic reasons. Sure, the death rate among "at risk" parties is greater - but that does not mean the suffering is any less for younger people. And to admit "opening-up" the country now would increase the spread of the disease, but to be so nonchalant about the results, shows a total disregard for other humans... or perhaps a hidden agenda.



https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200326/young-people-far-from-immune-to-coronavirus-bite


"So let the young people suffer - I have a golf game I want to attend!"


Tugger wrote:
The one thing those who nonsensically shout, without actual intelligent thought, "We want to shop and go out and do whatever we want, consequences be damned" don't understand is this: #1 (above) is the plan!



:checkmark: Until there is adequate testing (and no, Herr Trump, there is not adequate testing now), any broad relaxation of the rules is simply a ticking time bomb.



AirWorthy99 wrote:
Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.



Au contraire, the politically expedient thing to do would be to disregard all the medical and scientific evidence, end any restrictions, and let the chips fall where they may. Fortunately, cooler heads prevail... for now.


I guess now the narrative is we should keep everything closed just in the US.

Europe which has gotten the worse of this virus, has started to open: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/ ... lockdowns/

Would everything you are accusing me or the US apply to them as well?

If we had leaders like Europe we would have been much farther ahead dealing with the pandemic, and may even be opening up as well right now, rather than our moron golfing and holding his white trash brownshirt rallies, and literally taking a victory lap at the Daytona 500, delaying a response by weeks and then ultimately making it much worse than it had to be.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
2122M
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:58 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Lock down the at-risk people, not the entire country. The majority of the population will have no symptoms if/when they get the virus.Again, you're choosing to "make it suck" for 100% of the population, when you could get the same results by just making it suck for 20%. (And, oh, by the way, you could avoid destroying the economy to such a terrible degree.) Is that out of spite, blind loyalty to authorities or abject fear?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
If you are younger than 50 and go about your life, chances are you won't be in contact with someone over 50 or 60 that is at risk, because the idea is to have those people stay home and away from the rest of the population. Or at least you will be cautious enough to not get into contact with people who are at risk.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
Based on DATA, not feelings not projections, 45 and under, including those with underlying health conditions, death rate in Florida recent is 0.1%. That's not if you take some of the anti body tests out there that say that there is more than 14 times more people infected. If you put that in, you will be way bellow 0.1%



It is amazing the some people thing. "it is okay to get the virus... if it doesn't kill you...", and want to allow transmission - and increased infections - for nothing but selfish economic reasons. Sure, the death rate among "at risk" parties is greater - but that does not mean the suffering is any less for younger people. And to admit "opening-up" the country now would increase the spread of the disease, but to be so nonchalant about the results, shows a total disregard for other humans... or perhaps a hidden agenda.



https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200326/young-people-far-from-immune-to-coronavirus-bite


"So let the young people suffer - I have a golf game I want to attend!"


Tugger wrote:
The one thing those who nonsensically shout, without actual intelligent thought, "We want to shop and go out and do whatever we want, consequences be damned" don't understand is this: #1 (above) is the plan!



:checkmark: Until there is adequate testing (and no, Herr Trump, there is not adequate testing now), any broad relaxation of the rules is simply a ticking time bomb.



AirWorthy99 wrote:
Another promoter of keeping us lock-down for ever, because of political expediency.



Au contraire, the politically expedient thing to do would be to disregard all the medical and scientific evidence, end any restrictions, and let the chips fall where they may. Fortunately, cooler heads prevail... for now.


I guess now the narrative is we should keep everything closed just in the US.

Europe which has gotten the worse of this virus, has started to open: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/ ... lockdowns/

Would everything you are accusing me or the US apply to them as well?


The US should absolutely follow the European model. Once there have been a decline in cases for 14 days straight, you can start to reopen. Europe is there now, we are not.

And can all you anti-science folks please stop claiming that everyone else wants the lockdown to last forever? That's simply not true, not even close to true. There's going to be a good time to re-open (after 14 consecutive days of declining cases maybe?). The sane majority just wants us to wait until then.
 
GDB
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:02 pm

That's an idea, let the Trumpists gather, in their own isolation, signing a waiver for any medical treatment and only allowed outside of their cult with PPE, which they have to pay for.
Why not? A lot of them seem to think medics are now 'crisis actors', anyway isn't the idea of healthcare kinda 'socialist' to them?
Of course they won't, like their idol they are abject moral and physical cowards.
 
Ken777
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:08 am

Nothing can top "injecting disinfectants to kill the virus"

Nothing
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:17 am

Ken777 wrote:
Nothing can top "injecting disinfectants to kill the virus"

Nothing


As I said before, look what they did to Obama over "you can keep your doctor", imagine if Obama was dumb enough to utter such words as the Dumbster Don did and then try to spin it as the fault of Reporters. This approaches tragic comedy, except people are dying.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:56 am

NoTime wrote:
Yes, just like anyone can die from a lightning strike, but we're not wrecking the economy for thunderstorms. Anyone can die from the virus, but the vast, vast majority won't... most won't even have any symptoms from the virus.


Interesting...what were your positions at the time on Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Patriot Act following 9/11? The devil’s advocate would like to know.

Wrecking the economy was because the government took no leadership steps to shield the public from easily predictable impacts. Not reacting to a novel virus of this type was not unavoidable, but the extent of economic harm was. Minor degree of imagination required, but we have the wrong type of seven year-old for that.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:12 am

PixelPilot wrote:
I have a feeling a lot of the people that are pro full lock downs are like the celebrities that complain their mansions feel like jails and sing songs to pretend they are with you lol.
Total disconnect with real life and majority of regular folks.


I have a feeling the people in charge are more guilty of that than those of us fortunate to be comfortable. As someone who works with competent professionals, I overheard a winery investment group leader ask - in the early part of March - what are we going to do if there are closures? How are employees going to afford rent around here? What can we do to make sure ‘the family’ (staff) get through okay? It took a few days but they pooled north of $200K together to put in reserve.

Now imagine you’re in a WH briefing, with or without son in law. A competent series of questions would be:

1. Sounds like lockdown will be serious shit for a lot of small businesses. What can be done to cushion them for awhile?

2. How are companies already committed to large capital investments going to fare? Can we talk to banks and creditors about that?

3. How are people without deep savings going to pay bills or rent for several months? Should they be necessary while the economy cannot function normally?

But you have to already know what situations the above parties are in to ask - not start formulating reactive stopgap measures after the complaints come in via media and corporate interests, as we saw.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Derico
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:01 am

I may get a lot of heat for this, but I think it's a valid observation.

I recently watched some news from Europe and North America about the unemployment and food crisis due to the economic shutdown. Of course, I totally understand that no one can really prepare for this kind of situation without becoming a Catastrophist who lives life just to prepare for the end. So in my following criticism I am not suggesting the current plight is entirely people's fault, but nonetheless, people do bear some responsibility.

In watching the news footage of the food lines in the USA, Canada, and in parts of Europe, something immediately stood out to me. They were wearing luxury designer glasses while standing in line outside in Paris, London, and Milan, and beautiful jewelry. One can assume they were also wearing quite pricy clothing and other accessories (but cannot be caught on a short TV segment). In Germany I saw reports of people requiring state assistance, that had just arrived from 3 month luxury cruise round the world! In the news from the USA, you can clearly see the people waiting for food banks lines, driving huge SUVs, with leather interior and tons of gadgets on the dashboards.

The juxtaposition of these situations was really striking.

So my criticism is... when will people understand that crisis will always occur every 10 to 20 years and that one must put away in the good times by giving up some unneeded luxuries? Of course they should be helped in the immediate crisis, but afterwards. There should be a serious discussion about making savings mandatory in a private bank (like everyone needing a mininum of 3 months expenses by LAW or tax penalties apply). Same with big corporations where dividends should be done away with for 3 years completely, and for the wealthiest people a "war tax" or "pandemic" tax should be instituted. Government should also cut their salaries and forgo all their paid vacation.

It's time EVERYONE sacrifice, like in a war. It is clear to me people everywhere in the world have completely forgotten how things really were for 99.9999% of human history. I'm thinking the military service should also return in my country, as well as more strict teaching discipline, etc, etc. People need to relearn a little bit of hardship.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:34 am

I live in a high rise apartment building. Thankfully elevators have been restricted to one family at a time but getting in the elevator one day in the lobby I witness
the biggest brain move, this lady decided to call the other elevator bank with her foot, despite the fact the building has put a hand sanitizer dispenser 2 feet from the elevators.

We deserve extinction...
 
NoTime
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:31 pm

2122M wrote:
And can all you anti-science folks please stop claiming that everyone else wants the lockdown to last forever?


Sure, when all you anti-fact, anti-data people stop claiming that everyone else wants to kill granny.

I just want a sensible, phased re-opening that uses the current data as a guide, not old/outdated models from early March that have proven to be wildly inaccurate. I think Ohio (my home state) has done a pretty decent job of containing the virus. They started out aggressively to "flatten the curve," succeeded, worked to increase hospital preparedness and capacity, and are now transitioning to a phased reopening. Just keep an eye on the data and adjust the plan as needed.
 
2122M
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:01 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
And can all you anti-science folks please stop claiming that everyone else wants the lockdown to last forever?


Sure, when all you anti-fact, anti-data people stop claiming that everyone else wants to kill granny.

I just want a sensible, phased re-opening that uses the current data as a guide, not old/outdated models from early March that have proven to be wildly inaccurate. I think Ohio (my home state) has done a pretty decent job of containing the virus. They started out aggressively to "flatten the curve," succeeded, worked to increase hospital preparedness and capacity, and are now transitioning to a phased reopening. Just keep an eye on the data and adjust the plan as needed.


So basically, you are arguing with no-one. The early March guidance is what prompted the stay-at-home orders. The stay-at-home orders worked to flatten the curve and the estimates were revised and lowered as a result. Now data we are looking for is a consistent decline in new cases as our signal to start to re-open.

By all accounts, that's what you want too. So what on earth are you all hot and bothered about?!? You want to re-open now? instead of a few weeks form now?
 
NoTime
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:48 pm

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
And can all you anti-science folks please stop claiming that everyone else wants the lockdown to last forever?


Sure, when all you anti-fact, anti-data people stop claiming that everyone else wants to kill granny.

I just want a sensible, phased re-opening that uses the current data as a guide, not old/outdated models from early March that have proven to be wildly inaccurate. I think Ohio (my home state) has done a pretty decent job of containing the virus. They started out aggressively to "flatten the curve," succeeded, worked to increase hospital preparedness and capacity, and are now transitioning to a phased reopening. Just keep an eye on the data and adjust the plan as needed.


So basically, you are arguing with no-one. The early March guidance is what prompted the stay-at-home orders. The stay-at-home orders worked to flatten the curve and the estimates were revised and lowered as a result. Now data we are looking for is a consistent decline in new cases as our signal to start to re-open.

By all accounts, that's what you want too. So what on earth are you all hot and bothered about?!? You want to re-open now? instead of a few weeks form now?


Yes, I want a phased approach to reopening now. I would've preferred it two weeks ago. I think a targeted lockdown would've been just as effective as a full lockdown. But regardless of that, it's past the time to start re-opening things.
 
2122M
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:59 pm

NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Sure, when all you anti-fact, anti-data people stop claiming that everyone else wants to kill granny.

I just want a sensible, phased re-opening that uses the current data as a guide, not old/outdated models from early March that have proven to be wildly inaccurate. I think Ohio (my home state) has done a pretty decent job of containing the virus. They started out aggressively to "flatten the curve," succeeded, worked to increase hospital preparedness and capacity, and are now transitioning to a phased reopening. Just keep an eye on the data and adjust the plan as needed.


So basically, you are arguing with no-one. The early March guidance is what prompted the stay-at-home orders. The stay-at-home orders worked to flatten the curve and the estimates were revised and lowered as a result. Now data we are looking for is a consistent decline in new cases as our signal to start to re-open.

By all accounts, that's what you want too. So what on earth are you all hot and bothered about?!? You want to re-open now? instead of a few weeks form now?


Yes, I want a phased approach to reopening now. I would've preferred it two weeks ago. I think a targeted lockdown would've been just as effective as a full lockdown. But regardless of that, it's past the time to start re-opening things.


So you think that waiting for a consistent downward trend in new cases in unnecessary? Given the lack of information early on and potential threat to our healthcare system, do you think we were wrong to be extremely precautions in the early stages?
 
Newark727
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:34 pm

NoTime wrote:
Yes, I want a phased approach to reopening now. I would've preferred it two weeks ago. I think a targeted lockdown would've been just as effective as a full lockdown. But regardless of that, it's past the time to start re-opening things.


I think what we're finding is that authorities didn't have a very good idea of where the early cases actually were (notably the first death in NorCal was weeks earlier than thought.) Which would have severely complicated a partial / targeted lockdown.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:55 am

When ranking stupid things observed during COVID, I think Donny T has a leg up on the competition...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52450692

Then again, when it comes to stupid things in general, he's in a class of his own.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:06 am

Way to go Georgia, Winner! I must admit I had pegged Mississippi as my lead dog, followed closely by Alabama and/or Arkansas. You knew it would be somewhere in the southeast though.https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regiona ... X2SjpEfjL/
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:06 am

2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:
2122M wrote:

So basically, you are arguing with no-one. The early March guidance is what prompted the stay-at-home orders. The stay-at-home orders worked to flatten the curve and the estimates were revised and lowered as a result. Now data we are looking for is a consistent decline in new cases as our signal to start to re-open.

By all accounts, that's what you want too. So what on earth are you all hot and bothered about?!? You want to re-open now? instead of a few weeks form now?


Yes, I want a phased approach to reopening now. I would've preferred it two weeks ago. I think a targeted lockdown would've been just as effective as a full lockdown. But regardless of that, it's past the time to start re-opening things.


So you think that waiting for a consistent downward trend in new cases in unnecessary? Given the lack of information early on and potential threat to our healthcare system, do you think we were wrong to be extremely precautions in the early stages?


It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.
 
Newark727
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:32 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


It clearly isn't, though. Social distancing works. We're seeing it now.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:36 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Yes, I want a phased approach to reopening now. I would've preferred it two weeks ago. I think a targeted lockdown would've been just as effective as a full lockdown. But regardless of that, it's past the time to start re-opening things.


So you think that waiting for a consistent downward trend in new cases in unnecessary? Given the lack of information early on and potential threat to our healthcare system, do you think we were wrong to be extremely precautions in the early stages?


It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Ridiculous conclusion, Quarantines have been around a lot longer than we have, smarter people than us figured it out a long time ago.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:38 am

WarRI1 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
2122M wrote:

So you think that waiting for a consistent downward trend in new cases in unnecessary? Given the lack of information early on and potential threat to our healthcare system, do you think we were wrong to be extremely precautions in the early stages?


It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Ridiculous conclusion, Quarantines have been around a lot longer than we have, smarter people than us figured it out a long time ago.


Quarantine is for sick people. Not healthy people. There were no control groups so you can't possibly claim it works.

Arkansas and other states with no stay home orders are no worse off than the rest.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:42 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Ridiculous conclusion, Quarantines have been around a lot longer than we have, smarter people than us figured it out a long time ago.


Quarantine is for sick people. Not healthy people. There were no control groups so you can't possibly claim it works.

Arkansas and other states with no stay home orders are no worse off than the rest.


I know a word, transmission, no not the one in a stock car, in medical terms. Look it up.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
2122M
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:11 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Ridiculous conclusion, Quarantines have been around a lot longer than we have, smarter people than us figured it out a long time ago.


Quarantine is for sick people. Not healthy people. There were no control groups so you can't possibly claim it works.

Arkansas and other states with no stay home orders are no worse off than the rest.


The vast majority of Arkansas businesses did shut down. There was no stay at home order from the governor, but municipalities were able to enact and enforce social distancing rules and regulations.

And they worked.....

Doctors know more than you know about this.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:23 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
2122M wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Yes, I want a phased approach to reopening now. I would've preferred it two weeks ago. I think a targeted lockdown would've been just as effective as a full lockdown. But regardless of that, it's past the time to start re-opening things.


So you think that waiting for a consistent downward trend in new cases in unnecessary? Given the lack of information early on and potential threat to our healthcare system, do you think we were wrong to be extremely precautions in the early stages?


It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Watch out folks - some kid in Florida is both a wordsmith and armchair epidemiologist. I for one am impressed. :shock: :?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:36 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
2122M wrote:

So you think that waiting for a consistent downward trend in new cases in unnecessary? Given the lack of information early on and potential threat to our healthcare system, do you think we were wrong to be extremely precautions in the early stages?


It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Watch out folks - some kid in Florida is both a wordsmith and armchair epidemiologist. I for one am impressed. :shock: :?


No, I can perform simple. We could have endured relatively few sicknesses and deaths. But instead we all had to suffer. Now we are going to face food shortages throughout the entire world. I hope you're happy.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:45 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
No, I can perform simple. We could have endured relatively few sicknesses and deaths.


Let’s have it! What are your data and projections? How many severe cases and deaths with only targeted quarantines instead of distancing lockdowns? Even better if you can simply display it for us via regression scatterplot.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:48 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
No, I can perform simple. We could have endured relatively few sicknesses and deaths.


Let’s have it! What are your data and projections? How many severe cases and deaths with only targeted quarantines instead of distancing lockdowns? Even better if you can simply display it for us via regression scatterplot.


The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:52 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

It was all unnecessary. It's as fruitless as trying to stop a tornado.


Watch out folks - some kid in Florida is both a wordsmith and armchair epidemiologist. I for one am impressed. :shock: :?


No, I can perform simple. We could have endured relatively few sicknesses and deaths. But instead we all had to suffer. Now we are going to face food shortages throughout the entire world. I hope you're happy.



How Cavalier, "relatively few sicknesses and deaths" I suggest you ask the first res ponders and then the medical people who have endured and died trying save people during this pandemic, and then ask the families who lost people they loved and then use the term relatively few deaths to them. I will guarantee you will not forget what you hear back from them.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:56 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
No, I can perform simple. We could have endured relatively few sicknesses and deaths.


Let’s have it! What are your data and projections? How many severe cases and deaths with only targeted quarantines instead of distancing lockdowns? Even better if you can simply display it for us via regression scatterplot.


The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.


That wasn’t the question - again, so you can’t miss it: How many severe cases and deaths with only targeted quarantines instead of distancing lockdowns?

Give us a detailed analysis, since you claim it’s so ‘simple’.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Newark727
Posts: 2030
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:00 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.


You really think the world economy would just shrug off losing that many people? It's reasonable to be concerned about the economy, but if every country with COVID-19 cases just ignored it and was still having the exponential increases in infections that Italy and New York were having in mid-March, you can absolutely bet we'd have even more jobless than we do now.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:02 am

Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.


You really think the world economy would just shrug off losing that many people? It's reasonable to be concerned about the economy, but if every country with COVID-19 cases just ignored it and was still having the exponential increases in infections that Italy and New York were having in mid-March, you can absolutely bet we'd have even more jobless than we do now.


Exactly. For an aviation forum, it’s stunning how many people lack FL350 perspective.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:04 am

Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.


You really think the world economy would just shrug off losing that many people? It's reasonable to be concerned about the economy, but if every country with COVID-19 cases just ignored it and was still having the exponential increases in infections that Italy and New York were having in mid-March, you can absolutely bet we'd have even more jobless than we do now.


I don't have a problem with shutting down hotspots. But shutting down rural Illinois because Chicago has a lot of cases is just as stupid as making the whole family to without dessert because grandma is a diabetic.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2030
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:06 am

Aaron747 wrote:
That wasn’t the question - again, so you can’t miss it: How many severe cases and deaths with only targeted quarantines instead of distancing lockdowns?

Give us a detailed analysis, since you claim it’s so ‘simple’.


The thing about targeted quarantines is that they'd require, you know, targets. Given just how little testing was going on in late February and early March, and how we now know that the virus had already arrived in the U.S. significantly ahead of when it was previously thought, it's difficult to see how that would've worked. As much of a mess as the broad-based shelter-in-place orders have made, that may have been the only tool available to make a dent in the problem at the time.

(Not disagreeing with you Aaron747, just mostly thinking out loud.)
 
tommy1808
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:38 am

slider wrote:
I'm seeing people wearing masks in their cars. Dumbasses.


Plenty of people ride with people that are not members of the same household. Its only stupid allen, or with membefs of their household.
Some people may simply not bother to take it off and put it back on all the time, they are not that uncomfortable to wear after all.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.


You really think the world economy would just shrug off losing that many people? It's reasonable to be concerned about the economy, but if every country with COVID-19 cases just ignored it and was still having the exponential increases in infections that Italy and New York were having in mid-March, you can absolutely bet we'd have even more jobless than we do now.


I don't have a problem with shutting down hotspots. But shutting down rural Illinois because Chicago has a lot of cases is just as stupid as making the whole family to without dessert because grandma is a diabetic.


Diabetis is contagious?

You do realise China is further away from Chicago then those rural areas are from it?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Francoflier
Posts: 5368
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:22 am

Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
The worst case scenario numbers have been published for quite some time. But I'll go beyond those. Even if we had 100 million deaths it's still inconsequential in a world of 7.5 billion. Only about 1.3% of the world population.


You really think the world economy would just shrug off losing that many people? It's reasonable to be concerned about the economy, but if every country with COVID-19 cases just ignored it and was still having the exponential increases in infections that Italy and New York were having in mid-March, you can absolutely bet we'd have even more jobless than we do now.


I'll start by saying that I am in no way trying to defend TTailedTiger's inane and tiresome argument, but...

Honestly, and cynically, yes it would shrug it off. Sadly.

Of course, no one would like to see hundreds of thousands or millions dying from a disease... The thing is, all these places started testing quite late and the logarithmic increase we saw initially may very well have been the discovery through testing of a disease that had already taken hold among a larger than expected proportion of the population. The virus didn't wait 3 months to cross Asia into Europe and the Pacific into the US...
Increased and generalized testing is now showing that the virus' prevalence among the population is much higher than initially thought, and extrapolations would start to give credence to the fact that it has already reached seasonal influenza levels of spread, which would largely decrease its morbidity and will likely alter the initial projections.

I am not trying to minimize the increased death rate it has caused, which is a reality. It is still an unknown disease that is meeting little resistance among a non-immunized population, and every life lost is a tragedy and we can't just do nothing. But it is now almost certain that the catastrophic initial predictions, which were based on a very limited set of data, were wrong. The morbidity rate is decreasing by the day, as increased testing finds more and more cases for a similar number of deaths.

On the other hand, while everybody is crunching numbers on Covid, no one seems to bother to quantify the human cost these extreme measures will have.
While some cities/regions' healthcare systems are overwhelmed, in most other places are, on the contrary, hospitals are being deserted. The constant fear mongering and sensationalization is keeping other sick people from hospitals, which will necessarily have an increased morbidity effect... How much? No one knows or cares, apparently.

The massive loss of jobs will lead to millions losing adequate health coverage, resulting in much the same. Then there is the medical toll (both in terms of long term physical and mental health) of high levels of anxiety, stress, depression, increased alcoholism, smoking, drug usage, or even domestic abuse and violence that all of this will engender.

The resulting extraordinary recession this mass panic is causing will result in millions of deaths in the poor and developing nations where countless depend on a daily paycheck for survival. In the developed World, it will mean hardship for millions of families for years.

This new virus is a game of numbers, which as changing by the day. We are happy to weather waves of seasonal flu every year and walk around sneezing or with a runny nose in full knowledge that we might infect a vulnerable person who may die from it, and thousands do. Covid is worse than the seasonal flu, that much is certain from the increased death rate in some places, but we don't know how much worse. Where do we draw the line?
One thing is certain, everybody is painfully aware of it, and not much else.

Shelter in place and shutting down the economy might have been warranted initially when we knew nothing about what we were up against, and to prevent overwhelming the healthcare system in areas of high contagion.

Is it justified now in many places where doctors are being furloughed due to lack of patients and where mortality rates are low?
We can't know the answer to that without analyzing the cost vs. benefit of the measure, and the cost (human and other) is enormous...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Stupid things observed during COVID

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:51 am

CaptHadley wrote:
Way to go Georgia, Winner! I must admit I had pegged Mississippi as my lead dog, followed closely by Alabama and/or Arkansas. You knew it would be somewhere in the southeast though.https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regiona ... X2SjpEfjL/


Perhaps they, you know, drank it "sarcastically"?
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