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Tugger
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:35 pm

And regarding Sanders "ending" his campaign, in fact he actually suspended it. Trump made a good comment about that:
“He didn't really drop out. What about his delegates?” Trump said. “I mean, he said he's going to keep his delegates. That's a weird deal going on.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... bout-biden

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:44 pm

Not a Bern fan, but it seem he had a much more energetic campaign than Biden.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:04 pm

Tugger wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Show us the democracy in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution? As Franklin said, “.a Republic, if you can keep it?” Which we won’t.

Sigh... (picks nits off shoulder).... The Constitution does require majority votes etc. for attaining office in the government, yes? Even the EC requires a majority as it applies. And the EC and other protections are there to protect against the "tyranny of the majority" (and a stupid or incapable citizenry). Now you can say that is not "a democracy" but that is just picking nits as it is democratic process that drive and are fundamental to the function of the USA, as dictated by the Constitution.

So, we are a Republic but also a democracy even if not 100% (because, in case some don't know this, no country is 100% "democracy"). A democracy is government by the people, who may do so either directly or indirectly, through elected representatives. A republic is government in which the people’s elected representatives make decisions.

Tugg


Indeed.

I have no patience for people trying to make that distinction as though it is some type of point.

The people what like to say 'we'll, we're actually a democratic republic, not a democracy...' have this way of doing so that makes it sound as though they themselves have just learnt this fact sometime in the past 37 minutes. They always sound as though this should be some world shattering revelation. Like this somehow means voting is stupid because, really it is meant to be some sort of theocracy or something. And certainly not a system where elected officials are held to account by the vote of the public at large.
I am aware of how prejudicial it sounds, but only truly stupid people think that detail matters in any sort of real terms.

Now, contradicting everything I have just said, I will point out that. . .

Tugger wrote:
Even the EC requires a majority as it applies.


if we are talking about the preponderance of actual votes on a State by State basis, this is not actually true. The EC doesn't have cast their votes in any particular way. States have traditional methods of distribution, usually WTA, but there are some, like Maine & Nebraska, that distribute on a Congressional District Pro-Rate basis.

I am only pointing this out as it is actually a good thing. It is what will allow the NPVIC to take proper function and end all of that non-sense. So there is that. . .
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:10 pm

seahawk wrote:
The debates will be like an evening in an nursing home. Lots of loud speaking, little context and gaping memory holes.

That assumes there will be a debate to begin with. Trump has already floated the idea to not participate in the debates, but that was pre-covid days.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:19 pm

With Sanders still on the ballot for many primaries, it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out delegate-wise and how that may influence the DNC as a whole.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Even the EC requires a majority as it applies.


if we are talking about the preponderance of actual votes on a State by State basis, this is not actually true. The EC doesn't have cast their votes in any particular way. States have traditional methods of distribution, usually WTA, but there are some, like Maine & Nebraska, that distribute on a Congressional District Pro-Rate basis.

I am only pointing this out as it is actually a good thing. It is what will allow the NPVIC to take proper function and end all of that non-sense. So there is that. . .

I think Tugger refers to the college itself and not how votes are allocated by state or how those votes are won. The NPVIC merges the concepts of "republic" with "democracy" and ensures the "democracy" part wins every time.

Allocating votes proportionally or through CDs still abides by the fact that the EC requires a majority of electors for a candidate to win and even if all states used these methods, it may be possible for an election to end without a winner. Of course, the CD allocation only encourages gerrymandering so that's the least desired method.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:46 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I think Tugger refers to the college itself and not how votes are allocated by state or how those votes are won.


This is a possibility I did not weigh properly, yes. In that instance, what I said, while accurate, would indeed be surplus. . .


einsteinboricua wrote:
Allocating votes proportionally or through CDs still abides by the fact that the EC requires a majority of electors for a candidate to win and even if all states used these methods, it may be possible for an election to end without a winner. Of course, the CD allocation only encourages gerrymandering so that's the least desired method.


It does, and that is the case. But, as of now, there is still a startling amount of Fiat involved. Write-In Candidates, can and have been voted for by EC members.

I also do agree that CDs have problems of their own. They probably are not better than the way the majority of votes are allocated, no.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
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Tugger
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:06 pm

Hello again! Yes I was just thinking of the most basic element of the EC, they need a majority to elect whomever. Excellent points though (I mean I knew what I was thinking!), I could have been clearer!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:18 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
Not a Bern fan, but it seem he had a much more energetic campaign than Biden.


That isn't saying much though his heart is a concern even though his cognitive function is much better than Sleepy Joe.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:44 pm

apodino wrote:
apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I don't want to derail the thread, but there are a lot of down ballot races that matter. Like county commissioners and state representation. Wisconsin elects judges, from what I understand. The voters can get rid of these right wing ideologues and replace them with judges who know the law and not just tow the party line.

It will be interesting to see which states refuse to allow mail in or absentee or early votes? My guess is Republican/MAGA controlled states.



As for your second paragraph, it all depends on the law. I suspect that legislatures will actually do their job and vote to allow a lot of the latter, especially in Democratic controlled areas. The issue in WI is Evers tried to act unilaterally which the state Constitution does not allow. Even so, the republicans in the Legislature need to be held accountable for their actions.


More to the point of your post, I was thinking about the election not actually happening in November, and I read a very interesting part of the Constitution that could come into play this year. This is from Article 2 Section 1 Paragraph 2 of the constitution.

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.


Notice how this gives the legislature of each state the ability to choose how the electors for the Electoral college are chosen. In most cases in this country, the Electors are chosen by the candidates they are pledged to support and the public votes for the states entire block of Electors for one or the other candidates. But this does not say that the voters have to decide the electors. This paragraph gives the legislature the ability for the legislature themselves to choose the states Electors to the electoral college. Why this is important is in almost every swing state this election cycle (AZ, FL, WI, MI, PA), the republicans control the State Legislature. If these states somehow moved to the legislature choosing the electors given the pandemic, then Trump is assured of a second term. Of course I would suspect such a power grab would result in legal challenges. But I also remind you that there is a faithless elector case before the Supreme Court right now. The ruling on this case is going to be huge to determine the future of how the electoral college is actually handled.

The above is very concerning for obvious reasons that I don't need to mention. But given the circumstances we are in...I could see this happening.


Not an earth shattering find, the earliest presidential “elections” were voted on by the public. I think it was 1820s that states moved to holding elections for the electors. Yes, legislatures could send whomever they wanted and be perfectly constitutional. Heck, no one voted BoJo as prime minister.
 
AA747123
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:21 pm

It does not make much difference, there is no way in the world anyone can beat Trump. Come November you will see the biggest landslide in the history of our nation
 
M564038
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:47 pm

Galaxy:
You are spreading misinformed myths.
Stop watching Fox News, it is just for entertainment, but shit is real now, so stop.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
slider wrote:
I'm not taking any victory lap for the demise of Bolshevik Bernie's campaign.

His ideas need to be fought at every turn and with great vigor. Individual liberty and rights need to be protected and upheld; and it's clear we need to educate the latest generation that's fallen prey to the dopey collectivist mentality.


LOL, the countries with the most individual liberties and rights are exactly the Social-Democratic countries of the world.
They have the highest social mobility, the hoghest living standards, the most common trust, the longest lifes, and the biggest sense of freedom.

But thanks for playing.


They’re also very small homogeneous populations with very tight cultural and families ties. They have very high trust levels. It’s a lot easier with 5 million than 325 million. The US in the Sixties was roughly half today’s population and the levels of trust and ties due to WW II Service much greater. Put a Scandinavian welfare system here and the gaming of the system would be out of control, just to opposite of there.
 
M564038
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:48 pm

If there ever was a LOL.
Desperate Donald will be long gone or dead by then.

AA747123 wrote:
It does not make much difference, there is no way in the world anyone can beat Trump. Come November you will see the biggest landslide in the history of our nation
 
blueflyer
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:17 am

winginit wrote:
I think it's fair to say that two years ago if you'd asked the average American what the 2020 election would look like they'd tell you something to the tune of

So much intensity, so much drama... all to be where we knew all along we'd be. Though to be fair, if we were deciding the winners of elections by opinion surveys, Trump would be busy now trying to convince us he deserves a 24-month extension of his first-and-only term before Biden takes office because impeachment, virus, and Fauci...

WarRI1 wrote:
I would also say that I think Bernie did the correct thing here, personal sacrifice for the common good, the defeat of this madman we have in office before he destroys our Democracy.

A presidential candidates who gets angry and defensive when journalists ask why he still is assessing three weeks on and ends up reaching the conclusion everyone else had already shouldn't be held in high esteem. Either his emotional intelligence or his ego are not where they need to be to hold the top job.

AA747123 wrote:
It does not make much difference, there is no way in the world anyone can beat Trump. Come November you will see the biggest landslide in the history of our nation

That thing you're on, is it because you're having a tough time coping with social isolation due to the virus? Win, maybe. Landslide...
 
winginit
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:10 pm

AA747123 wrote:
It does not make much difference, there is no way in the world anyone can beat Trump. Come November you will see the biggest landslide in the history of our nation


Really. So given the largest election victory in history was 1936, when FDR secured 523 electoral college votes compared to Alf Landon's 8 (he only won Maine and Vermont), you're saying that Donald Trump will secure equal to or greater than 523 electoral college votes? Hot take! Say More!
 
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ER757
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:33 pm

AA747123 wrote:
It does not make much difference, there is no way in the world anyone can beat Trump. Come November you will see the biggest landslide in the history of our nation

How's the weather in Moscow today Boris?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:50 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Come November you will see the biggest landslide in the history of our nation

Uh huh...so there are three elections that are contenders to the title "biggest landslide" (after the 1820 election which was uncontested):

1. The 1936 election, when FDR swept all the states, except VT and ME, giving Democrats 523 EC votes (out of 531). FDR captured nearly 98.5% of the EC vote so it's the highest share, percentage wise.
2. The 1964 election, when LBJ captured the highest popular vote percentage at 61.1% (which no other candidate has even come close to matching).
3. The 1984 election, when Reagan captured the highest total EC count, losing MN by a few thousand votes and failing to capture its 10 EC votes.

So the definition of biggest landslide has to essentially exceed one of these three elections. Unless there's martial law and the election is changed to where each ballot in every state only has Trump's name, you may want to seriously tamp down expectations.

Even his 304-227 EC count falls short of the very man he succeeded ran up (365-173 in 2008; 332-206 in 2012). Nothing more than second rate. Deal with it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
StarAC17
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:14 pm

N212R wrote:
The script is going according to plan. Now, to bring the true candidates from behind the curtain. Biden, his deficient brain and disturbing contact videos aside, has always been nothing but a place holder. Democrats are a delusional bunch but they aren't stupid enough to think Creepy Joe is their man of the hour.

Who will the Fat Cat donors call?


If they had sense they would do this and perhaps Bernie staying on the Ballot gives Biden a plurality so the DNC can choose someone else. But realize the DNC insiders live in such a large bubble that their thinking is only with their own people and not the average person.

In the end they will run Biden with the very inauthentic Kamala Harris to show that he is progressive choosing a black woman. Run on no issues except I'm not Trump and lose exactly like Hillary did (win popular vote and lose the EC) and blame Bernie.

I know these people, they watch MSNBC and actually think that those people speak for everybody. In reality most people vote based on the candidate that has the platform most in their interests and Biden better have plans to improve the lives of those in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

NIKV69 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
I read that Sanders will continue in some states as a reminder to Biden that we don't want another Democrat running who may be the the right of Eisenhower.


The Dem party has been hijacked by the fringe left AOC types who want the complete overhaul of the USA into a Europe model. They don't need a reminder sent to those who reject this and support Biden. I think Sanders' toxic speech today in which he launched into his usual name calling of anyone in the opposing party.

I can't hide my joy to see him defeated again and relegated to obscurity. Which is where he belongs.


They haven't been hijacked by them at least not yet.

The democrats are the party of the professional managerial class who are largely economically comfortable and fight for social justice an PC issues that the average working class individual cares nothing about (if they do its number 129 on the things they care about). The working class person worries how they are going to pay their rent/mortgage or if they are going to have a job tomorrow.

Bernie and AOC are very appealing to blue collar individuals but many aren't registered democrats or actively engaged in politics. Neither are particular woke SJW types.

You need those people to win and they are likely to stay home when Biden goes up there saying we are going back to 2013. Guess what the working class Joe's life in 2013 was worse than it was in 2008, they are cynical of the process and you need them to come out to win.

M564038 wrote:
slider wrote:
I'm not taking any victory lap for the demise of Bolshevik Bernie's campaign.

His ideas need to be fought at every turn and with great vigor. Individual liberty and rights need to be protected and upheld; and it's clear we need to educate the latest generation that's fallen prey to the dopey collectivist mentality.


LOL, the countries with the most individual liberties and rights are exactly the Social-Democratic countries of the world.
They have the highest social mobility, the hoghest living standards, the most common trust, the longest lifes, and the biggest sense of freedom.

But thanks for playing.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

The problem is the US is they don't actually have a left wing party and those in the bubble don't realize it.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:41 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
N212R wrote:
The script is going according to plan. Now, to bring the true candidates from behind the curtain. Biden, his deficient brain and disturbing contact videos aside, has always been nothing but a place holder. Democrats are a delusional bunch but they aren't stupid enough to think Creepy Joe is their man of the hour.

Who will the Fat Cat donors call?


If they had sense they would do this and perhaps Bernie staying on the Ballot gives Biden a plurality so the DNC can choose someone else. But realize the DNC insiders live in such a large bubble that their thinking is only with their own people and not the average person.

In the end they will run Biden with the very inauthentic Kamala Harris to show that he is progressive choosing a black woman. Run on no issues except I'm not Trump and lose exactly like Hillary did (win popular vote and lose the EC) and blame Bernie.

I know these people, they watch MSNBC and actually think that those people speak for everybody. In reality most people vote based on the candidate that has the platform most in their interests and Biden better have plans to improve the lives of those in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

NIKV69 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
I read that Sanders will continue in some states as a reminder to Biden that we don't want another Democrat running who may be the the right of Eisenhower.


The Dem party has been hijacked by the fringe left AOC types who want the complete overhaul of the USA into a Europe model. They don't need a reminder sent to those who reject this and support Biden. I think Sanders' toxic speech today in which he launched into his usual name calling of anyone in the opposing party.

I can't hide my joy to see him defeated again and relegated to obscurity. Which is where he belongs.


They haven't been hijacked by them at least not yet.

The democrats are the party of the professional managerial class who are largely economically comfortable and fight for social justice an PC issues that the average working class individual cares nothing about (if they do its number 129 on the things they care about). The working class person worries how they are going to pay their rent/mortgage or if they are going to have a job tomorrow.

Bernie and AOC are very appealing to blue collar individuals but many aren't registered democrats or actively engaged in politics. Neither are particular woke SJW types.

You need those people to win and they are likely to stay home when Biden goes up there saying we are going back to 2013. Guess what the working class Joe's life in 2013 was worse than it was in 2008, they are cynical of the process and you need them to come out to win.

M564038 wrote:
slider wrote:
I'm not taking any victory lap for the demise of Bolshevik Bernie's campaign.

His ideas need to be fought at every turn and with great vigor. Individual liberty and rights need to be protected and upheld; and it's clear we need to educate the latest generation that's fallen prey to the dopey collectivist mentality.


LOL, the countries with the most individual liberties and rights are exactly the Social-Democratic countries of the world.
They have the highest social mobility, the hoghest living standards, the most common trust, the longest lifes, and the biggest sense of freedom.

But thanks for playing.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

The problem is the US is they don't actually have a left wing party and those in the bubble don't realize it.


So much misinformation in this post......

AOC and Bernie are showing Democrats in general that, yes, we can get back to traditional American values of people like JFK and FDR and translate them to the 21st Century.
Democrats understand there is not "left wing" party in this country. That the Democratic party has had to move farther and farther to the right because the Republican party has been in control of messaging since Reagan.
Countries like Sweden and Finland and Germany have more individual rights and liberties than the United States

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

We are 15th.

The "working class" understands that having a job does not guarantee anything. It is the pay that matters. If we keep having private industry tell us it is fantastic to have to work two and three jobs just to barely scrape by, that is not right. People are starting to get it, now. That is not right. That is not normal. We didn't have to do that before but, since the Republican party has been taken over by religious fanatics who demand greed and blind allegiance, it is accepted.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1744
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:19 pm

seb146 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
N212R wrote:
The script is going according to plan. Now, to bring the true candidates from behind the curtain. Biden, his deficient brain and disturbing contact videos aside, has always been nothing but a place holder. Democrats are a delusional bunch but they aren't stupid enough to think Creepy Joe is their man of the hour.

Who will the Fat Cat donors call?


If they had sense they would do this and perhaps Bernie staying on the Ballot gives Biden a plurality so the DNC can choose someone else. But realize the DNC insiders live in such a large bubble that their thinking is only with their own people and not the average person.

In the end they will run Biden with the very inauthentic Kamala Harris to show that he is progressive choosing a black woman. Run on no issues except I'm not Trump and lose exactly like Hillary did (win popular vote and lose the EC) and blame Bernie.

I know these people, they watch MSNBC and actually think that those people speak for everybody. In reality most people vote based on the candidate that has the platform most in their interests and Biden better have plans to improve the lives of those in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

NIKV69 wrote:

The Dem party has been hijacked by the fringe left AOC types who want the complete overhaul of the USA into a Europe model. They don't need a reminder sent to those who reject this and support Biden. I think Sanders' toxic speech today in which he launched into his usual name calling of anyone in the opposing party.

I can't hide my joy to see him defeated again and relegated to obscurity. Which is where he belongs.


They haven't been hijacked by them at least not yet.

The democrats are the party of the professional managerial class who are largely economically comfortable and fight for social justice an PC issues that the average working class individual cares nothing about (if they do its number 129 on the things they care about). The working class person worries how they are going to pay their rent/mortgage or if they are going to have a job tomorrow.

Bernie and AOC are very appealing to blue collar individuals but many aren't registered democrats or actively engaged in politics. Neither are particular woke SJW types.

You need those people to win and they are likely to stay home when Biden goes up there saying we are going back to 2013. Guess what the working class Joe's life in 2013 was worse than it was in 2008, they are cynical of the process and you need them to come out to win.

M564038 wrote:

LOL, the countries with the most individual liberties and rights are exactly the Social-Democratic countries of the world.
They have the highest social mobility, the hoghest living standards, the most common trust, the longest lifes, and the biggest sense of freedom.

But thanks for playing.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

The problem is the US is they don't actually have a left wing party and those in the bubble don't realize it.


So much misinformation in this post......

AOC and Bernie are showing Democrats in general that, yes, we can get back to traditional American values of people like JFK and FDR and translate them to the 21st Century.
Democrats understand there is not "left wing" party in this country. That the Democratic party has had to move farther and farther to the right because the Republican party has been in control of messaging since Reagan.
Countries like Sweden and Finland and Germany have more individual rights and liberties than the United States

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

We are 15th.

The "working class" understands that having a job does not guarantee anything. It is the pay that matters. If we keep having private industry tell us it is fantastic to have to work two and three jobs just to barely scrape by, that is not right. People are starting to get it, now. That is not right. That is not normal. We didn't have to do that before but, since the Republican party has been taken over by religious fanatics who demand greed and blind allegiance, it is accepted.


Seb your blind rage at Republicans you fail to see that BOTH parties are an abject failure BOTH. As long as dark money and lobbying and career politicians call the shots nothing much is going to change.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3799
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
N212R wrote:
The script is going according to plan. Now, to bring the true candidates from behind the curtain. Biden, his deficient brain and disturbing contact videos aside, has always been nothing but a place holder. Democrats are a delusional bunch but they aren't stupid enough to think Creepy Joe is their man of the hour.

Who will the Fat Cat donors call?


If they had sense they would do this and perhaps Bernie staying on the Ballot gives Biden a plurality so the DNC can choose someone else. But realize the DNC insiders live in such a large bubble that their thinking is only with their own people and not the average person.

In the end they will run Biden with the very inauthentic Kamala Harris to show that he is progressive choosing a black woman. Run on no issues except I'm not Trump and lose exactly like Hillary did (win popular vote and lose the EC) and blame Bernie.

I know these people, they watch MSNBC and actually think that those people speak for everybody. In reality most people vote based on the candidate that has the platform most in their interests and Biden better have plans to improve the lives of those in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

NIKV69 wrote:

The Dem party has been hijacked by the fringe left AOC types who want the complete overhaul of the USA into a Europe model. They don't need a reminder sent to those who reject this and support Biden. I think Sanders' toxic speech today in which he launched into his usual name calling of anyone in the opposing party.

I can't hide my joy to see him defeated again and relegated to obscurity. Which is where he belongs.


They haven't been hijacked by them at least not yet.

The democrats are the party of the professional managerial class who are largely economically comfortable and fight for social justice an PC issues that the average working class individual cares nothing about (if they do its number 129 on the things they care about). The working class person worries how they are going to pay their rent/mortgage or if they are going to have a job tomorrow.

Bernie and AOC are very appealing to blue collar individuals but many aren't registered democrats or actively engaged in politics. Neither are particular woke SJW types.

You need those people to win and they are likely to stay home when Biden goes up there saying we are going back to 2013. Guess what the working class Joe's life in 2013 was worse than it was in 2008, they are cynical of the process and you need them to come out to win.

M564038 wrote:

LOL, the countries with the most individual liberties and rights are exactly the Social-Democratic countries of the world.
They have the highest social mobility, the hoghest living standards, the most common trust, the longest lifes, and the biggest sense of freedom.

But thanks for playing.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

The problem is the US is they don't actually have a left wing party and those in the bubble don't realize it.


So much misinformation in this post......

AOC and Bernie are showing Democrats in general that, yes, we can get back to traditional American values of people like JFK and FDR and translate them to the 21st Century.
Democrats understand there is not "left wing" party in this country. That the Democratic party has had to move farther and farther to the right because the Republican party has been in control of messaging since Reagan.
Countries like Sweden and Finland and Germany have more individual rights and liberties than the United States

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

We are 15th.

The "working class" understands that having a job does not guarantee anything. It is the pay that matters. If we keep having private industry tell us it is fantastic to have to work two and three jobs just to barely scrape by, that is not right. People are starting to get it, now. That is not right. That is not normal. We didn't have to do that before but, since the Republican party has been taken over by religious fanatics who demand greed and blind allegiance, it is accepted.


You may get some congressional upsets in November that will take the democrats off guard. Hopefully that happens

I think many of the voters get it but a lot of the aren't registered democrats most are independents or apolitical, they still want Bernie. Bernie still polls ahead of Trump and Biden does not. They see the democrats as a woke, PC, snooty party, living in the DC bubble.

The registered democrats who have the biggest vote in the primaries are very centrist and the DNC is trying their best to get AOC out or diminish her power. The leadership of the DNC are in a bubble and are lashing out a people like Joe Rogan who the working class probably listen to way more than MSNBC.

It's anecdotal and I am not an American but this weekend my mother said Bernie didn't do enough for Hillary even though he did 40 rallies for her and in November if Biden loses the pitchforks will be out for Sanders again.

Watch the actual progressives like David Pakman (he is actually the least emotional), The Hill's rising, Kyle Kulinski and TYT. They paint a good picture of the modern democratic party leadership, not necessarily the voters.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:36 pm

Well, Sanders had not dropped out when WI went to vote, and even then, the results ended up being a Biden blowout. With about 27% of the vote, Biden leads Sanders 65.1% to 29.2%. A YUUGE reversal from his 2016 primary when he beat Clinton 56 to 43.

Again, I still say it. His 2016 wins were propped by anti-Clinton voters and not pro-Sanders voters.

The attention turns to the Supreme Court seat where the results are neck and neck. Would be interesting to see if the challenger wins...what will the GOP do with the ballots that were not postmarked? After fighting so hard to not count them, I can see them springing into action to get them counted.
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:04 pm

The attention turns to the Supreme Court seat where the results are neck and neck.


No kidding! With about 35% of the votes counted, there's only about 1300 votes separating them.
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alfa164
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:55 am

NWAESC wrote:
The attention turns to the Supreme Court seat where the results are neck and neck.


No kidding! With about 35% of the votes counted, there's only about 1300 votes separating them.


Here's the update: it looks like the "liberal" candidate won.

I suspect a lot of voters were really p.o.'ed at the G.O.P.'s blatantly obvious efforts to deny them the right to vote, and responded accordingly. Their tactics backfired - and rightly (no pun intended ;) ) so.


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/1 ... its-184666
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seb146
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:11 am

StarAC17 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

If they had sense they would do this and perhaps Bernie staying on the Ballot gives Biden a plurality so the DNC can choose someone else. But realize the DNC insiders live in such a large bubble that their thinking is only with their own people and not the average person.

In the end they will run Biden with the very inauthentic Kamala Harris to show that he is progressive choosing a black woman. Run on no issues except I'm not Trump and lose exactly like Hillary did (win popular vote and lose the EC) and blame Bernie.

I know these people, they watch MSNBC and actually think that those people speak for everybody. In reality most people vote based on the candidate that has the platform most in their interests and Biden better have plans to improve the lives of those in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.



They haven't been hijacked by them at least not yet.

The democrats are the party of the professional managerial class who are largely economically comfortable and fight for social justice an PC issues that the average working class individual cares nothing about (if they do its number 129 on the things they care about). The working class person worries how they are going to pay their rent/mortgage or if they are going to have a job tomorrow.

Bernie and AOC are very appealing to blue collar individuals but many aren't registered democrats or actively engaged in politics. Neither are particular woke SJW types.

You need those people to win and they are likely to stay home when Biden goes up there saying we are going back to 2013. Guess what the working class Joe's life in 2013 was worse than it was in 2008, they are cynical of the process and you need them to come out to win.



:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

The problem is the US is they don't actually have a left wing party and those in the bubble don't realize it.


So much misinformation in this post......

AOC and Bernie are showing Democrats in general that, yes, we can get back to traditional American values of people like JFK and FDR and translate them to the 21st Century.
Democrats understand there is not "left wing" party in this country. That the Democratic party has had to move farther and farther to the right because the Republican party has been in control of messaging since Reagan.
Countries like Sweden and Finland and Germany have more individual rights and liberties than the United States

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

We are 15th.

The "working class" understands that having a job does not guarantee anything. It is the pay that matters. If we keep having private industry tell us it is fantastic to have to work two and three jobs just to barely scrape by, that is not right. People are starting to get it, now. That is not right. That is not normal. We didn't have to do that before but, since the Republican party has been taken over by religious fanatics who demand greed and blind allegiance, it is accepted.


You may get some congressional upsets in November that will take the democrats off guard. Hopefully that happens

I think many of the voters get it but a lot of the aren't registered democrats most are independents or apolitical, they still want Bernie. Bernie still polls ahead of Trump and Biden does not. They see the democrats as a woke, PC, snooty party, living in the DC bubble.

The registered democrats who have the biggest vote in the primaries are very centrist and the DNC is trying their best to get AOC out or diminish her power. The leadership of the DNC are in a bubble and are lashing out a people like Joe Rogan who the working class probably listen to way more than MSNBC.

It's anecdotal and I am not an American but this weekend my mother said Bernie didn't do enough for Hillary even though he did 40 rallies for her and in November if Biden loses the pitchforks will be out for Sanders again.

Watch the actual progressives like David Pakman (he is actually the least emotional), The Hill's rising, Kyle Kulinski and TYT. They paint a good picture of the modern democratic party leadership, not necessarily the voters.


Unfortunately, we only have two political parties in the United States. Democrats understand that every individual has individual needs but do whatever as long as it does not physically hurt anyone. Republicans just want corporations to do well because that is how they have been conditioned.

The commentators you mention have their own opinions of how the Democratic leadership is. I would disagree because of what Thom Hartmann, Dean Obidallah, Amy Goodman, and Malcom Nance say. But, then, Democrats appreciate spirited debate and hearing different opinions and agreeing on a consensus instead of "either you are with us or you hate America" like Republicans.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:38 am

seb146 wrote:
Unfortunately, we only have two political parties in the United States.

Correction: we have two MAJOR political parties; plenty of smaller parties that, as long as a FPTP system remains, will likely never be elected into office but play spoiler for both major parties (Libertarians for Republicans; Greens for Democrats).
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NWAESC
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Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders ends Presidental primary run

Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am

alfa164 wrote:
Here's the update: it looks like the "liberal" candidate won.
I suspect a lot of voters were really p.o.'ed at the G.O.P.'s blatantly obvious efforts to deny them the right to vote, and responded accordingly. Their tactics backfired - and rightly (no pun intended ;) ) so.


Yep. the WI GOP tried to suppress the vote, and instead, people went and elected "liberal" judges and passed a bunch of school referendums. You love to see it!
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