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FTMCPIUS
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Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:37 am

In-flight incidents fueled by alcohol have been steadily increasing, causing major concerns for the safety of passengers and overall disruptions for airlines. The carriers view selling alcoholic drinks as a significant cash cow. However, passenger safety and comfort must trump ;) the airlines' desire to boost revenue and accommodate their drinking passengers.

President Trump should enter into a new agreement with the industry, by making them an offer they should find hard to refuse. The agreement would ban the serving of alcohol on flights in return, among other things, for the financial aid airlines are seeking. This would be a classic and beneficial quid pro quo.

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/health-w ... -neighbour

Unlike Trump, I drink alcoholic beverages, but when I fly I am quite able to do without for the duration of a flight. More strict pre-boarding passenger screening rules should also be enacted.
Last edited by FTMCPIUS on Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Noshow
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo on airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:50 am

A glass of wine should not be a problem however crews should not be allowed to fill up passengers in flight. Maybe a limit would work like two drinks max or similar?
The heavy drinkers seem to board after already having consumed alcohol before a flight at home or at the airport. So some pre-boarding check for drunken passengers might make sense. Finally they must be able to evacuate from the aircraft.
 
twinotter
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo on airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:53 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
In-flight incidents fueled by alcohol have been steadily increasing, causing major concerns for the safety of passengers and overall disruptions for airlines.


In-flight incidents fueled by alcohol have not been steadily increasing, aren't a major concern for the safety of passengers, and haven't significantly disrupted the operation of any airline.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo on airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:01 am

Noshow wrote:
A glass of wine should not be a problem however crews should not be allowed to fill up passengers in flight. Maybe a limit would work like two drinks max or similar?
The heavy drinkers seem to board after already having consumed alcohol before a flight at home or at the airport. So some pre-boarding check for drunken passengers might make sense. Finally they must be able to evacuate from the aircraft.


One problem is that alcohol has more effect at high cabin altitude in flight. Someone can be functional on the ground when boarding, but becomes more inebriated after after takeoff.
 
wetpantsmcgee
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:02 am

Absurd. It would be more proactive to ban alcohol sales in the terminal vending, but that simply isn't going to happen.

The problem is the people, not the means.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo on airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:02 am

Noshow wrote:
A glass of wine should not be a problem however crews should not be allowed to fill up passengers in flight. Maybe a limit would work like two drinks max or similar?
The heavy drinkers seem to board after already having consumed alcohol before a flight at home or at the airport. So some pre-boarding check for drunken passengers might make sense. Finally they must be able to evacuate from the aircraft.

Many of the related incidents are created when FAs attempt to impose a limit. Leaving some wiggle room in an agreement would, in the long run, end up first being mildly abused, with the situation gradually returning to close to what exists today. So much for The Art of the Deal then. :cry:
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:19 am

I've never had an issue holding my alcohol on the ground or in the air. Some people are just obnoxious jerks.
 
phxa340
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:51 am

With literally everything that is going on right now ... this is what you think our government should focus in on with the airline industry ? Respectfully, there are so many more pressing issues - like trying to keep the people you suggest pre screen, employed.
 
mcdu
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:07 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
In-flight incidents fueled by alcohol have been steadily increasing, causing major concerns for the safety of passengers and overall disruptions for airlines. The carriers view selling alcoholic drinks as a significant cash cow. However, passenger safety and comfort must trump ;) the airlines' desire to boost revenue and accommodate their drinking passengers.

President Trump should enter into a new agreement with the industry, by making them an offer they should find hard to refuse. The agreement would ban the serving of alcohol on flights in return, among other things, for the financial aid airlines are seeking. This would be a classic and beneficial quid pro quo.

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/health-w ... -neighbour

Unlike Trump, I drink alcoholic beverages, but when I fly I am quite able to do without for the duration of a flight. More strict pre-boarding passenger screening rules should also be enacted.



Where is the empirical data to support your claim that there is an uptick in passenger issues? Isn’t this more an issue of social media making bigger deals out of issues than in the past. People have always been imbeciles when traveling as passengers. The difference now is that everyone has a smartphone camera at the ready to record whatever is taking place. These junior Woodward and Bernstein’s are all wanting their 5 minutes of fame for capturing “the big story” on a plane.

This is one of the most bizarre topics I have ever seen on a.net.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:45 am

There is no obligation from airlines to serve alcohol. If they do it, then there can't be that much issues with it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:04 am

mcdu wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
In-flight incidents fueled by alcohol have been steadily increasing, causing major concerns for the safety of passengers and overall disruptions for airlines. The carriers view selling alcoholic drinks as a significant cash cow. However, passenger safety and comfort must trump ;) the airlines' desire to boost revenue and accommodate their drinking passengers.

President Trump should enter into a new agreement with the industry, by making them an offer they should find hard to refuse. The agreement would ban the serving of alcohol on flights in return, among other things, for the financial aid airlines are seeking. This would be a classic and beneficial quid pro quo.

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/health-w ... -neighbour

Unlike Trump, I drink alcoholic beverages, but when I fly I am quite able to do without for the duration of a flight. More strict pre-boarding passenger screening rules should also be enacted.



Where is the empirical data to support your claim that there is an uptick in passenger issues? Isn’t this more an issue of social media making bigger deals out of issues than in the past. People have always been imbeciles when traveling as passengers. The difference now is that everyone has a smartphone camera at the ready to record whatever is taking place. These junior Woodward and Bernstein’s are all wanting their 5 minutes of fame for capturing “the big story” on a plane.

This is one of the most bizarre topics I have ever seen on a.net.

Fully agreed. Like so many things. People think just because we now live in a world where anybody can report worldwide news, that these things never happened before. 20 years ago I used to see the daily incident reports for a large airline and there were 3-5 incidents per day of people trying to open airplane doors, inappropriately touching others on the plane, having fights with flight attendants, trying to get into the cockpit, or urinating on everything including other passengers. I definitely saw reports of much crazier stuff then. I think now even drunk people know they are being filmed and most of that has disappeared leaving mostly the fights.
 
nkops
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:45 am

With all due respect, there is way more pressing issues for the industry now … like staying in business. I have heard of issues here and there with drunks on airplanes, but never thought of it as a major concern and definitely not an overall disruption for airlines. This is one of those things that will be continued to be handled on a case to case basis, and not legislated
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
jomur
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:06 pm

Why not ban gum sales as that causes far more incidents than drinking alcohol on a plane ever will.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:38 pm

There are several other areas I would rather see as part of any bailout deal. Mandate 1 free checked bag no matter the fare level. Limit 2nd checked bag fees. Make sure families, especially with children, can be seated together at time of purchase. Limit no-refund/no credit cancellations of tickets. As to alcohol, airlines are subject to rules like that of on the ground, no serving of 'drunks' and those under the legal age.
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:54 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There are several other areas I would rather see as part of any bailout deal. Mandate 1 free checked bag no matter the fare level. Limit 2nd checked bag fees. Make sure families, especially with children, can be seated together at time of purchase. Limit no-refund/no credit cancellations of tickets. As to alcohol, airlines are subject to rules like that of on the ground, no serving of 'drunks' and those under the legal age.

If you force refunds (on tickets the passenger voluntarily cancels) there will be more overbooking. You have to pick your poison on that one.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:31 pm

phxa340 wrote:
With literally everything that is going on right now ... this is what you think our government should focus in on with the airline industry ? Respectfully, there are so many more pressing issues - like trying to keep the people you suggest pre screen, employed.

Yes, because the timing is perfect for such a solution. And negotiating this, if handled Trump style, would not detract from the government's pandemic efforts. By your reasoning the public should accept school shootings provided the number of incidents is not rising. I won’t do your homework; go to Google on the subject of alcohol-related incidents on flights.

Virtually all individuals and businesses are being adversely affected by the Covid-19 crisis. Everyone should be expected to accept some permanent changes in their lives/businesses. If there is ever an incident (serious passenger injury or death) found to have been caused by alcohol abuse, the public will demand preventive measures be taken.

In ordinary times, the airlines would vigorously fight any ruling/legislation to ban alcoholic drinks on flights, all the way up to the SCOTUS. As I pointed out, this would be one of several provisions of funding by the U.S. The airlines have never been in a more desperate position. If Trump acts now, an agreement could be reached without costly and time-consuming legalities.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached where, for example, only passengers in business/first class would be served with a strict limit of, say, two drinks. This would likely increase demand for profitable premium seating and attract the type of passengers who are less likely to become disruptive.
 
FGITD
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:43 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
By your reasoning the public should accept school shootings provided the number of incidents is not rising.



Seems to be that the public is willing to accept school shootings even if the number of incidents rises.

This thread is absolute nonsense. My neighbor likes to drink, should he be forbidden from getting a stimulus check unless he gives it up?
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:50 pm

Flying is very safe. No major crashes in the past few years and loss of life has been minimal. My main concern with people drinking on flights is IF there is an incident, those people will be in the way or not be fully in control of their actions and reactions. Many people can handle their liquor. I never drink when I am flying. The brosband has at least two Jack and Cokes and then falls asleep. But, I also know that I can heft him over my shoulder, should anything happen.

I guess my point is: those incidents where a drunk person has to be subdued are few and far between. No need to make flights dry. And, then, there was this

https://www.airspacemag.com/daily-plane ... 180961700/
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:02 pm

Dry is relative. Dry for a 2 hour flight or dry for a 12 hour flight?

Most folks that get hammered on a flight were drinking well before they got on it.

if anything the flight attendants are usually able to steer clear of that person for a bit.

This quid pro quo is not needed.

What is needed is the seat space allotment requirement. If i paid to bail out an airline, we should get at least 32 inches of pitch in economy.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:11 pm

With single digit load factors this is a non-issue. I just realized I took the bait.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:28 pm

This isn't communist Russia.

I'm all for the bailing out of the airlines, it saves jobs and a vital part of US infrastructure. But holding that bailout money in exchange for revoking a service that allows airlines to compete by any means necessary is not a good idea and illegal as it violates state's rights (precedent set by New Mexico suspending US' liquor license).
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:38 pm

I'm with Cuban when it comes to bailing out airlines. His point of view nails it.

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/12480 ... 34178?s=20
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:17 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
This isn't communist Russia.

I'm all for the bailing out of the airlines, it saves jobs and a vital part of US infrastructure. But holding that bailout money in exchange for revoking a service that allows airlines to compete by any means necessary is not a good idea and illegal as it violates state's rights (precedent set by New Mexico suspending US' liquor license).

No states' rights would be violated by a consensual agreement. The link posted by PixelPilot and re-posted below shows Mark Cuban taking the correct stance. If there ever was an opportunity to deal with the problem at hand, it is now. If the airlines don’t want to play ball, Trump should let them get a non-governmental bailout.

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/12480 ... 34178?s=20

Accomplishing this would require minimal effort, as no legislation would be required.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:32 pm

It is despicable that religous organisations are taking advantage of the Corona situation to try to impose their views on the rest of us. If Saudi Salafists don't like alcohol, they should relocate to Saudi Arabia as soon as possible, rather than reduce the freedoms of the rest of us.
 
2175301
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:45 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
This would be a classic and beneficial quid pro quo.


What sane business person would even suggest a quid pro quo with President Trump?

He has a well documented history, with a large number of business bankruptcies from his prior business associations, because he changes his mind frequently, denies things that are obviously true, and even denies that he made agreements and statements that there are verified records of.

I'd rather do business with the local "Loan Shark." At least I can trust him to live up to his end of the agreement if I live up to my end, and even some flexibility if needed with acknowledgement of the original agreement by both sides.

Have a great day,
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:08 pm

2175301 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
This would be a classic and beneficial quid pro quo.


What sane business person would even suggest a quid pro quo with President Trump?

He has a well documented history, with a large number of business bankruptcies from his prior business associations, because he changes his mind frequently, denies things that are obviously true, and even denies that he made agreements and statements that there are verified records of.

I'd rather do business with the local "Loan Shark." At least I can trust him to live up to his end of the agreement if I live up to my end, and even some flexibility if needed with acknowledgement of the original agreement by both sides.

Have a great day,


Do you not understand the meaning of quid pro quo? I agree that Trump is pretty shady, but such an agreement would be between the airlines and the Federal Government. I think it would be overseen and regulated by the FAA. Quid pro quo: I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:10 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
I'm with Cuban when it comes to bailing out airlines. His point of view nails it.

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/12480 ... 34178?s=20



I would agree with Cuban on this as well. The airlines are not victims here. They have had every opportunity to be strong enough to weather this. Reasonably, it can even be argued that they have at least some degree of culpability in creating this crisis. If the gov't does bail them out, it must come with their getting at least a seat at the table, but most likely controlling interest.

In any case, the airlines desperately need to get the message that the party is over.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
2175301
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:41 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
2175301 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
This would be a classic and beneficial quid pro quo.


What sane business person would even suggest a quid pro quo with President Trump?

He has a well documented history, with a large number of business bankruptcies from his prior business associations, because he changes his mind frequently, denies things that are obviously true, and even denies that he made agreements and statements that there are verified records of.

I'd rather do business with the local "Loan Shark." At least I can trust him to live up to his end of the agreement if I live up to my end, and even some flexibility if needed with acknowledgement of the original agreement by both sides.

Have a great day,


Do you not understand the meaning of quid pro quo? I agree that Trump is pretty shady, but such an agreement would be between the airlines and the Federal Government. I think it would be overseen and regulated by the FAA. Quid pro quo: I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.


I totally know the meaning, and have done them many times in my life.

Perhaps you have missed the tittle of this tread and the OP's original question and statements about who this proposed agreement is to be with?
 
johns624
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:19 pm

The OP was asleep during his high school Government class. The President is not a dictator. He doesn't negotiate with airlines. There are things called "laws" and "regulations", which are decided upon by the Legislative and Executive Branches. The President just signs or vetos bills passed by others.
 
Noshow
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:28 pm

I once sat onboard a flight with some intoxicated passenger behind me. The person, not calling him gentleman, (huge guy) turned to become aggressive against me for no reason (no lowered backrest or similar). I was lucky enough that the flight attendant managed to find another seat for me in time so I left voluntary as this might have turned to be dangerous. I'm against those drunken frankensteins on my flights.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:33 pm

johns624 wrote:
The OP was asleep during his high school Government class. The President is not a dictator. He doesn't negotiate with airlines. There are things called "laws" and "regulations", which are decided upon by the Legislative and Executive Branches. The President just signs or vetos bills passed by others.

No law or regulation would be necessary. The terms and conditions of a bailout can be negotiated and permit or prohibit ANYTHING, because it would be a loan agreement. Congress would not have to be involved, but the government (aka Trump) could be held accountable if the agreement goes haywire -- and that would be via the 2020 presidential election.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:01 am

During prohibition, US ocean lines were prohibited from serving alcohol. Guess how that went? Even after the repeal of prohibition, the US shipping industry never came back.

With the exception of a few airlines that serve Islamic countries (IR, SV, W5) all international airlines serve alcohol. Banning the sale of alcohol onboard would make US airlines extremely uncompetitive in the international market. This isn't like smoking, where it fills the whole cabin. Banning alcohol sales inflight will mean that US carriers will be unable to compete on international services. The airlines would be foolish to take such a bargain and would do much better declaring bankruptcy and starting anew with private equity.

And I don't even like alcohol.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:31 am

DocLightning wrote:
During prohibition, US ocean lines were prohibited from serving alcohol. Guess how that went? Even after the repeal of prohibition, the US shipping industry never came back.

With the exception of a few airlines that serve Islamic countries (IR, SV, W5) all international airlines serve alcohol. Banning the sale of alcohol onboard would make US airlines extremely uncompetitive in the international market. This isn't like smoking, where it fills the whole cabin. Banning alcohol sales inflight will mean that US carriers will be unable to compete on international services. The airlines would be foolish to take such a bargain and would do much better declaring bankruptcy and starting anew with private equity.

And I don't even like alcohol.

My thread was focused on domestic flights. Certainly, international flights should be able to serve alcohol. I understand this is probably a nonstarter, but wanted to learn what others think of it.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:08 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
During prohibition, US ocean lines were prohibited from serving alcohol. Guess how that went? Even after the repeal of prohibition, the US shipping industry never came back.

With the exception of a few airlines that serve Islamic countries (IR, SV, W5) all international airlines serve alcohol. Banning the sale of alcohol onboard would make US airlines extremely uncompetitive in the international market. This isn't like smoking, where it fills the whole cabin. Banning alcohol sales inflight will mean that US carriers will be unable to compete on international services. The airlines would be foolish to take such a bargain and would do much better declaring bankruptcy and starting anew with private equity.

And I don't even like alcohol.

My thread was focused on domestic flights. Certainly, international flights should be able to serve alcohol. I understand this is probably a nonstarter, but wanted to learn what others think of it.
You still haven't provided the facts that some asked you for showing that there's more drinking, more incidents, etc. We don't need any more Carrie Nations. Punish the offenders, not everyone.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:09 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
This isn't communist Russia.

I'm all for the bailing out of the airlines, it saves jobs and a vital part of US infrastructure. But holding that bailout money in exchange for revoking a service that allows airlines to compete by any means necessary is not a good idea and illegal as it violates state's rights (precedent set by New Mexico suspending US' liquor license).

No states' rights would be violated by a consensual agreement. The link posted by PixelPilot and re-posted below shows Mark Cuban taking the correct stance. If there ever was an opportunity to deal with the problem at hand, it is now. If the airlines don’t want to play ball, Trump should let them get a non-governmental bailout.

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/12480 ... 34178?s=20

Accomplishing this would require minimal effort, as no legislation would be required.

The US government having a stake in one of the nations largest lobbyists and the 2nd largest defense contractor on the planet; what could go wrong?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:55 am

johns624 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
During prohibition, US ocean lines were prohibited from serving alcohol. Guess how that went? Even after the repeal of prohibition, the US shipping industry never came back.

With the exception of a few airlines that serve Islamic countries (IR, SV, W5) all international airlines serve alcohol. Banning the sale of alcohol onboard would make US airlines extremely uncompetitive in the international market. This isn't like smoking, where it fills the whole cabin. Banning alcohol sales inflight will mean that US carriers will be unable to compete on international services. The airlines would be foolish to take such a bargain and would do much better declaring bankruptcy and starting anew with private equity.

And I don't even like alcohol.

My thread was focused on domestic flights. Certainly, international flights should be able to serve alcohol. I understand this is probably a nonstarter, but wanted to learn what others think of it.
You still haven't provided the facts that some asked you for showing that there's more drinking, more incidents, etc. We don't need any more Carrie Nations. Punish the offenders, not everyone.

As I suggested earlier, go to Google. Maybe it's just being reported more, but even so are you saying the status quo (diversions, totally messing up passengers' schedules, costing airlines a lot) is acceptable?

No Carrie Nation here. I drink alcohol and have done so on flights, I just choose to not do so any longer mainly because of the rip-off prices. But the rights of the majority to not miss connections due to alcohol-related incidents is paramount. Offenders needlessly punish all others. There was a time when airlines could not serve alcohol while flying over dry states. Those poor people who had to wait for maybe 30-45 minutes for a refill! :cry:
 
FGITD
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:39 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
As I suggested earlier, go to Google.


“Here is my outlandish claim, go forth and prove me right!”

You make the argument, you find the source.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:28 am

TWA772LR wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
This isn't communist Russia.

I'm all for the bailing out of the airlines, it saves jobs and a vital part of US infrastructure. But holding that bailout money in exchange for revoking a service that allows airlines to compete by any means necessary is not a good idea and illegal as it violates state's rights (precedent set by New Mexico suspending US' liquor license).

No states' rights would be violated by a consensual agreement. The link posted by PixelPilot and re-posted below shows Mark Cuban taking the correct stance. If there ever was an opportunity to deal with the problem at hand, it is now. If the airlines don’t want to play ball, Trump should let them get a non-governmental bailout.

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/12480 ... 34178?s=20

Accomplishing this would require minimal effort, as no legislation would be required.

The US government having a stake in one of the nations largest lobbyists and the 2nd largest defense contractor on the planet; what could go wrong?


The money coming out of one pocket would go back in the other, win win.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:47 pm

FGITD wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
As I suggested earlier, go to Google.


“Here is my outlandish claim, go forth and prove me right!”

You make the argument, you find the source.

I did find sources – on Google. Some are behind a paywall (hint: WSJ), but all state these incidents are on the rise. Since you are so skeptical of the results and must have ‘proof’ you should post some links that prove me wrong and I will offer you a most sincere apology.

Time to log on: https://www.google.com/
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2596
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:00 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
FGITD wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
As I suggested earlier, go to Google.


“Here is my outlandish claim, go forth and prove me right!”

You make the argument, you find the source.

I did find sources – on Google. Some are behind a paywall (hint: WSJ), but all state these incidents are on the rise. Since you are so skeptical of the results and must have ‘proof’ you should post some links that prove me wrong and I will offer you a most sincere apology.

Time to log on: https://www.google.com/


First time, huh?
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
johns624
Posts: 2560
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:35 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
FGITD wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
As I suggested earlier, go to Google.


“Here is my outlandish claim, go forth and prove me right!”

You make the argument, you find the source.

I did find sources – on Google. Some are behind a paywall (hint: WSJ), but all state these incidents are on the rise. Since you are so skeptical of the results and must have ‘proof’ you should post some links that prove me wrong and I will offer you a most sincere apology.

Time to log on: https://www.google.com/

You make the claim...you support it. That's how an argument (debate) works.
Also, you saying that you drink but don't drink on a plane because others get drunk and cause problems makes no sense. Is there something you're not telling us. Some people need others to tell them not to do something because they can't do it themselves. "Please stop me from hurting myself!"
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:24 pm

Feel free to start your own dry airline if you feel that strongly or fly privately and request no alcohol in your catering order. As for your suggestion it's nonsense. it won't happen and shouldn't.

Alcohol fuelled incidents are only anecdotally (through greater mass media reports) on the rise . The actual figures don't really bear this out. What is increasing is the number of "personal space" incidents as aircraft cabins keep becoming more and more like sardine cans.

The UK Air Navigation order makes it illegal to be drunk on board an aircraft.
This applies to all G-reg aircraft wherever they are flying and all aircraft flying to/from (diversion or otherwise) and through UK airspace.

Being mildly merry and behaving is usually tolerated, being drunk & a dick (or even just a dick) is not. Those causing problems are usually prosecuted for being so, along with a host of other related charges, most of which carry stiff fines, prison sentences and of course repayments of costs & victim surcharges.

Different jurisdictions, deal with it differently. Many are stiffening the consequences of being a dick.

On the whole, the problem is not drinking on board, it's the tanking up in the airport prior to boarding. Unfortunately to many ground staff tend to 'look the other way' and let obviously drunk people board an aircraft (breaking UK CAA rules or US FARs Section 121.575) because they don't want the hassle, thus foisting it onto the aircraft's crew and making it more difficult to deal with. This is another consequence of the race to the bottom that the industry is in.
Last edited by ChrisKen on Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22009
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:28 pm

I don't think alcohol is the only reason for people to be unruly, though. The OP thinks if we take away alcohol, all the problems will disappear. Not true. There are people with mental health issues who fly. There are people who take medications prescribed for someone else who fly. There are people who are tired and over it who fly. Any number of things could set anyone off at any time. Not just alcohol.

A few years ago, the brosband and I went to HNL. As I said before, he has two drinks during the flight, I have none. The flight back, we went HNL-OGG-LAX-OAK. It was a red eye OGG-LAX on DL 752. We had to sit at the gate in OGG and left late because the fuel was pumped into the wrong tank. That meant we arrived LAX late. Some flying on to DEN and SLC missed their connection. They were upset. I don't know if they had been drinking. Probably not but who knows.

Another time, I flew JNU-SEA and had no connecting flight SEA-PDX because the connecting flight had been grounded at ANC for weather.

My point is: someone (the OP, I believe) posted that a good reason for domestic airlines to go dry is diversions due to drunken pax. So, what about the weather? What about ground crew making stupid mistakes? Are we to control them as well?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
FTMCPIUS
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:38 pm

johns624 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
FGITD wrote:

“Here is my outlandish claim, go forth and prove me right!”

You make the argument, you find the source.

I did find sources – on Google. Some are behind a paywall (hint: WSJ), but all state these incidents are on the rise. Since you are so skeptical of the results and must have ‘proof’ you should post some links that prove me wrong and I will offer you a most sincere apology.

Time to log on: https://www.google.com/

You make the claim...you support it. That's how an argument (debate) works.
Also, you saying that you drink but don't drink on a plane because others get drunk and cause problems makes no sense. Is there something you're not telling us. Some people need others to tell them not to do something because they can't do it themselves. "Please stop me from hurting myself!"

If you're so intent on proving me wrong, do so -- with facts. You know there are supporting articles for rising incidents. The majority here who chimed in acknowledge this is occurring. You just want me to do your work. In a previous post I accepted the possibility of incidents not increasing by using a school shooting analogy. I provided some hints on where you can find information that the number of incidents is rising. You won’t do a search because you know what you’ll find. Again, find stats that prove me wrong and I’ll apologize. Nobody is forcing you to be in this thread.

You seem to have a reading problem and are apparently easily triggered. You misquote me on the reason I don't drink of flights. Quote: "I drink alcohol and have done so on flights, I just choose to not do so any longer mainly because of the rip-off prices.on flights." Go up thread and you'll find it.
 
FGITD
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:57 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
If you're so intent on proving me wrong, do so -- with facts. You know there are supporting articles for rising incidents. The majority here who chimed in acknowledge this is occurring. You just want me to do your work. In a previous post I accepted the possibility of incidents not increasing by using a school shooting analogy. I provided some hints on where you can find information


You're wrong. You can trust that I did my research but I don't want to post it here and do the work for you. I'm not doing your work for you, so you better come in here with primary sources, scholarly literature, and AT least 4 citations from accredited institutes and/or universities.

So go ahead and prove me wrong with YOUR facts.

(Hint- I asked Jeeves)
 
FTMCPIUS
Topic Author
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Trump should do a 'dry' quid pro quo with airlines

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:28 am

FGITD wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
If you're so intent on proving me wrong, do so -- with facts. You know there are supporting articles for rising incidents. The majority here who chimed in acknowledge this is occurring. You just want me to do your work. In a previous post I accepted the possibility of incidents not increasing by using a school shooting analogy. I provided some hints on where you can find information


You're wrong. You can trust that I did my research but I don't want to post it here and do the work for you. I'm not doing your work for you, so you better come in here with primary sources, scholarly literature, and AT least 4 citations from accredited institutes and/or universities.

So go ahead and prove me wrong with YOUR facts.

(Hint- I asked Jeeves)

Jeeves is no Google. I have links right here but I refuse to indulge you. Stay hunkered down and healthy. Jeeves! :lol:

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