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alfa164
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:53 am

afcjets wrote:
apodino wrote:
Whitmer is about the only candidate out there who would help him with the Rust Belt, (Other than possibly Tammy Baldwin, which I will throw out as a Darkhorse name) which is where this election will be won.

I doubt she could carry her own state right now. I think Trump wrapped up a Michigan win yesterday precisely because of her. The media took the bait and cried outrage over Trump saying he has the power to force states to open. That was meant for her and the people of Michigan breathed a huge sigh of relief.


I would take that bet. Sure, there are some protests - and a petition - decrying her decision to cut down on shopping trips, and trying to curb the spread of the Covid-19 outbreak (which is currently concentrated in the Detroit area), but much of that has been funded by the DeVos family-funded Michigan Freedom Fund and the self-proclaimed Michigan Conservative Coalition - groups that would have never supported her anyway. (And, speaking of DeVos... imagine the outrage if some group funded by an Obama cabinet-member had stirred a similar political ruckus in the middle of a pandemic...). People who haven't felt or seen much infection around them don't grasp why - or are being encouraged not to try to understand why - isolation measures are necessary.

There has always been some conflict between the more urban and suburban areas of Michigan and the rural counties; this is just another manifestation of that. And to put it in another perspective, the state's Attorney General, Dana Nessel (D), tweeted:

"I just can't hear about one more black health care worker, police officer or bus driver die while getting a barrage of complaints from white folks outraged because they can't go golfing."

It is a difference in perspective..... and when this is all over, I'll bet Whitmer is the hero. Or heroine. Or, perhaps, Vice-President.
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seb146
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:07 pm

alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
apodino wrote:
Whitmer is about the only candidate out there who would help him with the Rust Belt, (Other than possibly Tammy Baldwin, which I will throw out as a Darkhorse name) which is where this election will be won.

I doubt she could carry her own state right now. I think Trump wrapped up a Michigan win yesterday precisely because of her. The media took the bait and cried outrage over Trump saying he has the power to force states to open. That was meant for her and the people of Michigan breathed a huge sigh of relief.


I would take that bet. Sure, there are some protests - and a petition - decrying her decision to cut down on shopping trips, and trying to curb the spread of the Covid-19 outbreak (which is currently concentrated in the Detroit area), but much of that has been funded by the DeVos family-funded Michigan Freedom Fund and the self-proclaimed Michigan Conservative Coalition - groups that would have never supported her anyway. (And, speaking of DeVos... imagine the outrage if some group funded by an Obama cabinet-member had stirred a similar political ruckus in the middle of a pandemic...). People who haven't felt or seen much infection around them don't grasp why - or are being encouraged not to try to understand why - isolation measures are necessary.

There has always been some conflict between the more urban and suburban areas of Michigan and the rural counties; this is just another manifestation of that. And to put it in another perspective, the state's Attorney General, Dana Nessel (D), tweeted:

"I just can't hear about one more black health care worker, police officer or bus driver die while getting a barrage of complaints from white folks outraged because they can't go golfing."

It is a difference in perspective..... and when this is all over, I'll bet Whitmer is the hero. Or heroine. Or, perhaps, Vice-President.


Your post brings up a great point on the urban/suburban vs. rural divide. Urban/suburban are more of a "we/us" thinking while the rural thinking is "I/me".

I also don't think Republicans and MAGAs care who is paying for a particular petition, as long as it aligns with what they see on state media. Not much research is done and, when it is, the reaction is "so what?" if it aligns with the opinions they have seen on their MAGA networks.

Back to the point, I don't think Whitmer would be a good VP pick. I didn't know who she was until recently when another poster was outraged s/he could not get paint at the hardware store. Maybe she will be considered for a cabinet position but I don't think she has the national recognition to carry the party.
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afcjets
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
Back to the point, I don't think Whitmer would be a good VP pick. I didn't know who she was until recently when another poster was outraged s/he could not get paint at the hardware store. Maybe she will be considered for a cabinet position but I don't think she has the national recognition to carry the party.


That might be why she's closing off sections at Home Depot and not letting people self isolate in their vacation home.
 
stlgph
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:20 pm

^^
The solution is simple, don't run it as a Biden/Whitmer ticket, just run it as a Biden/"That Woman in Michigan" ticket and you'll get a lot more traction. :)

Although when Obama picked Biden - was Biden really known that well on a national level outside of some early caucus and primary states for trying to run for president for the previous 20 years? And of course when Trump picked Pence I thought that was an interesting choice as Trump probably already had Indiana in his pocket anyway. Oh well, it is what it is.


But with all that said, the ultimate great VP pick will be Biden....*again*....after Cuomo-19 snags the nomination. Oh, I kid, I kid... :)
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NIKV69
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:51 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Of course. It was for some completely non racist/misogynistic reason you just hastily invented a load of non-factual gibberish about a Black Woman, was it? Seems legit...

Much like you zeroing right in on a bullet you are obviously insecure about. Any other points you care to make for me?



Non factual? LOL which ones? I am sure I can easily prove each. Take your time.

stlgph wrote:
^^
The solution is simple, don't run it as a Biden/Whitmer ticket, just run it as a Biden/"That Woman in Michigan" ticket and you'll get a lot more traction. :)

Although when Obama picked Biden - was Biden really known that well on a national level outside of some early caucus and primary states for trying to run for president for the previous 20 years? And of course when Trump picked Pence I thought that was an interesting choice as Trump probably already had Indiana in his pocket anyway. Oh well, it is what it is.


But with all that said, the ultimate great VP pick will be Biden....*again*....after Cuomo-19 snags the nomination. Oh, I kid, I kid... :)


I kind of liked Her before she went full on Nuts. I think a bunch of her residents are driving into a huge group to protest her latest power grab.

Still hanging on to Klobuchar though anything is possible at this point.
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aerosreenivas
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:05 pm

I'm impressed with Andrew Cuomo so far, in terms of the way he is handling the on-going COVID-19 issues and is working with the Federal government and the other state governors. He is not blaming anybody for the problem his state is facing due to this pandemic.

Every day, he is trying to find out ways to solve this problem with whatever power he has and briefing to the media about the progress made rather than using that platform for 'Self-Boasting', unlike Trump.

I feel he should be Joe Biden's running mate. Even if he is reluctant to accept it.

If not him, then it should be a woman candidate as Biden's running mate, preferably, Amy Klobuchar. Infact, during the debates, Biden had hinted that he will have a woman VP as his running mate.
 
apodino
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:19 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
I'm impressed with Andrew Cuomo so far, in terms of the way he is handling the on-going COVID-19 issues and is working with the Federal government and the other state governors. He is not blaming anybody for the problem his state is facing due to this pandemic.

Every day, he is trying to find out ways to solve this problem with whatever power he has and briefing to the media about the progress made rather than using that platform for 'Self-Boasting', unlike Trump.

I feel he should be Joe Biden's running mate. Even if he is reluctant to accept it.

If not him, then it should be a woman candidate as Biden's running mate, preferably, Amy Klobuchar. Infact, during the debates, Biden had hinted that he will have a woman VP as his running mate.

Biden has already said it will be a woman. While Cuomo is the sexy name out there, he does not fit that bill and would not get the nod. Besides, even though Cuomo has been out there front and center he has taken a number of actions that have angered progressives. He refused to raise taxes on the Rich to help with the budget shortfall, and he cut Medicaid spending by 400 million dollars right in the middle of this crisis. It is also known that he too is a corporatist, and one of the things that he is known for is his constant battles with NY City mayor Bill DeBlasio. Even though this would be the establishments dream, it would do nothing to win over the populist left, many of whom are already saying they will stay home.

Klobuchar adds nothing to Biden either, and is also not one that would excite progressives. And if you thought the Trump white house had a revolving door, wait until you see the office of the VP under Klobuchar, who is well known for her mistreatment of staffers.

Whitmer is still the one I think is the choice, but given the protests in MI today, that now seems less likely. Another name that would help in the rust belt, especially WI, would be Tammy Baldwin. Tammy Baldwin would be one that progressives can rally around. She is very well liked in WI, and would probably deliver that state to Biden. (The whole Election debacle last week is going to hurt republicans as well. That will go down as the biggest political gaffe of the year IMO) She would not only be the first woman VP, but also the first openly Gay person on a Ticket. Seeing her on a debate stage with Pence would be must see TV (unlike the snoozefest we will get with Biden/Trump). She makes sense in more ways than one.

However, I do think if its not Whitmer, he will go to someone Wall Street accepts much more. Kamala Harris would fit that bill. We shall see.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:27 pm

As an academic exercise, Baldwin is a fantastic pick; she's from a battleground state, progressive, extremely smart, and is very humble. She also has the patience of a saint to deal with Ron Johnson, but I digress.

That said, I don't know if America is ready to elect an openly gay person. I'd like to think we are, but I'm just not sure.
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Tugger
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:31 pm

NWAESC wrote:
That said, I don't know if America is ready to elect an openly gay person. I'd like to think we are, but I'm just not sure.

I think for Vice President it would be acceptable to most. They just don't catch the fear and attacks that the lead name, the Presidential candidate, gets.

Tugg
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afcjets
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:27 pm

Just like with Guilliani, I think the honeymoon with Cuomo will not last. I realize NY has a major crisis unlike anywhere in the US, but eventually I had to turn him off when I started calling him Governor Doom and Gloom. But since Trump had the AUDACITY to try and OFfer Americans HOPE (perhaps inspired by his predecessor ;) ), Cuomo was by default sending the correct message. I actually like him, but I don't really know much about him.
 
stlgph
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:56 pm

Ultimately, I see Cuomo being very interested in the office of the President, but having no interest in the office of Vice President, as we know it's sometimes a "dull" position (unless you're Dick Cheney) and your chances of moving on from VP to Potus can hinge on the success and popularity of the person you're serving under - and I can see that being very unappealing to Cuomo as he'd rather just go straight for Potus on his own accord.

Cuomo has a history/habit/tendancy to over-govern at times, extending his reach into governing New York City, governing the MTA, among others. I see his time to time compliments of President Trump as a way to show he "can work" with the other side.
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NIKV69
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:22 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
I'm impressed with Andrew Cuomo so far, in terms of the way he is handling the on-going COVID-19 issues and is working with the Federal government and the other state governors. He is not blaming anybody for the problem his state is facing due to this pandemic.

Every day, he is trying to find out ways to solve this problem with whatever power he has and briefing to the media about the progress made rather than using that platform for 'Self-Boasting', unlike Trump.

I feel he should be Joe Biden's running mate. Even if he is reluctant to accept it.

If not him, then it should be a woman candidate as Biden's running mate, preferably, Amy Klobuchar. Infact, during the debates, Biden had hinted that he will have a woman VP as his running mate.


I know a little more than the average person about Cuomo and he will never be anyone's second fiddle. He has already told his closest inner circle he is running in 2024 so he will wait and besides I don't think NY Governor has term limits so he can lead NY for a long as he wants or until he runs for the WH.

afcjets wrote:
Just like with Guilliani, I think the honeymoon with Cuomo will not last. I realize NY has a major crisis unlike anywhere in the US, but eventually I had to turn him off when I started calling him Governor Doom and Gloom. But since Trump had the AUDACITY to try and OFfer Americans HOPE (perhaps inspired by his predecessor ;) ), Cuomo was by default sending the correct message. I actually like him, but I don't really know much about him.


Cuomo's best attribute is how he handles crisises. He was amazing during Sandy and he knows what to do and how to make it look. Only reason he is trying to prolong Coronavirus is to give Biden a chance in the fall. When it comes to the fundamentals of an executive he is top notch. He does pander to the far left base of his party once in a while but when you look at him he is a moderate democrat who is fiscally conservative and socially Liberal. I wish the whole Dem party was like him.
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alfa164
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:18 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
I'm impressed with Andrew Cuomo so far, in terms of the way he is handling the on-going COVID-19 issues and is working with the Federal government and the other state governors. He is not blaming anybody for the problem his state is facing due to this pandemic. Every day, he is trying to find out ways to solve this problem with whatever power he has and briefing to the media about the progress made rather than using that platform for 'Self-Boasting', unlike Trump. I feel he should be Joe Biden's running mate. Even if he is reluctant to accept it..


Andrew Como in drag? Well, that's a sight I don't think I want to see...

:roll:


apodino wrote:
Whitmer is still the one I think is the choice, but given the protests in MI today, that now seems less likely.


I am not so sure those protests are going to be a negative; indeed, when a political group (actually two groups - one primarily funded by Betsy DeVos' family - who have opposed Whitmer since she ran for office) starts promising "protests" based on falsehoods and deception - as so much of the screaming about her order has been - they have a tendency to backfire. Real media will probably interview some of the "protestors" and when they make claims about Whitmer that are demonstrably false, they will be called-out - and, hopefully, made to look like the fools and tools that they are.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 990476001/


NIKV69 wrote:
I know a little more than the average person about Cuomo and he will never be anyone's second fiddle. He has already told his closest inner circle he is running in 2024 so he will wait and besides I don't think NY Governor has term limits so he can lead NY for a long as he wants or until he runs for the WH.


I disagree. In many instances, someone may avoid being "second'fiddle", but this has changed over the past two administrations, as VP's have been given (or, in the case of Chenec, simply taken on) more important roles. This office should be even more closely watched in the upcoming election, with two Presidential candidates getting close to fourscore years of age.


NIKV69 wrote:
Only reason he is trying to prolong Coronavirus is to give Biden a chance in the fall.


I think you have confused Cuomo with Trump; it is Trump's dawdling that prolonged the response, and potentially his relax the restrictions - hoping a business uptick will boost this standing in the polls - that has the potential to set-back the progress we have already made. "Giving Biden a chance" obviously isn't on the top of his mind - but his narcissistic tunnel vision may actually bring that result.

Fitting.

:bigthumbsup:
Last edited by alfa164 on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jordanh
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:22 am

NIKV69 wrote:
I know a little more than the average person about Cuomo


Do you have any evidence to support that statement? I am sure most of us are laughing right now.


NIKV69 wrote:
Only reason he is trying to prolong Coronavirus is to give Biden a chance in the fall.


Really? Is that the "inside information" you have on Cuomo?

I think your tin hat must have fallen off again.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:03 am

Tugger wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
That said, I don't know if America is ready to elect an openly gay person. I'd like to think we are, but I'm just not sure.

I think for Vice President it would be acceptable to most. They just don't catch the fear and attacks that the lead name, the Presidential candidate, gets.

Tugg


I would certainly hope so by now. It is becoming a greater struggle each year to see the controversy there.


NIKV69 wrote:
Non factual? LOL which ones? I am sure I can easily prove each. Take your time.


Heh. Still here, huh? I made this clear before, but just to spell it out, I am not interested in your angry little day-dreamings.



alfa164 wrote:
I am not so sure those protests are going to be a negative; indeed, when a political group (actually two groups - one primarily funded by Betsy DeVos' family - who have opposed Whitmer since she ran for office) starts promising "protests" based on falsehoods and deception - as so much of the screaming about her order has been - they have a tendency to backfire. Real media will probably interview some of the "protestors" and when they make claims about Whitmer that are demonstrably false, they will be called-out - and, hopefully, made to look like the fools and tools that they are.


Indeed. The last few days have put her on the map to a lot of voters who have not heard of her previously. Not only that, but this exposure did not come during a primary. She was literally dropped into this with as little previous exposure as one could have and still be at National Level Politics. And add to that the narrative that she is famous primarily for preventing people from making a crisis worse. She may not even be considering this, at least realistically. But there is little doubt that Biden's campaign is at least kicking the tires on this one.

alfa164 wrote:
I disagree. In many instances, someone may avoid being "second'fiddle", but this has changed over the past two administrations, as VP's have been given (or, in the case of Chenec, simply taken on) more important roles. This office should be even more closely watched in the upcoming election, with two Presidential candidates getting close to fourscore years of age.


Indeed. This is the first Presidential Election in my lifetime that a VP choice has mattered this much. IIUC, Biden has more or less stated that he is interested only in one term anyway.
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seb146
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:42 am

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Back to the point, I don't think Whitmer would be a good VP pick. I didn't know who she was until recently when another poster was outraged s/he could not get paint at the hardware store. Maybe she will be considered for a cabinet position but I don't think she has the national recognition to carry the party.


That might be why she's closing off sections at Home Depot and not letting people self isolate in their vacation home.


Explain how bare root roses and shelving systems are essential to the health and well being of everyone? Explain how "I just wanna be someplace else for like a week" is essential to the health and well being of everyone?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:47 am

NIKV69 wrote:
aerosreenivas wrote:
I'm impressed with Andrew Cuomo so far, in terms of the way he is handling the on-going COVID-19 issues and is working with the Federal government and the other state governors. He is not blaming anybody for the problem his state is facing due to this pandemic.

Every day, he is trying to find out ways to solve this problem with whatever power he has and briefing to the media about the progress made rather than using that platform for 'Self-Boasting', unlike Trump.

I feel he should be Joe Biden's running mate. Even if he is reluctant to accept it.

If not him, then it should be a woman candidate as Biden's running mate, preferably, Amy Klobuchar. Infact, during the debates, Biden had hinted that he will have a woman VP as his running mate.


I know a little more than the average person about Cuomo and he will never be anyone's second fiddle. He has already told his closest inner circle he is running in 2024 so he will wait and besides I don't think NY Governor has term limits so he can lead NY for a long as he wants or until he runs for the WH.


Do you have any proof to back this up?

NIKV69 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Just like with Guilliani, I think the honeymoon with Cuomo will not last. I realize NY has a major crisis unlike anywhere in the US, but eventually I had to turn him off when I started calling him Governor Doom and Gloom. But since Trump had the AUDACITY to try and OFfer Americans HOPE (perhaps inspired by his predecessor ;) ), Cuomo was by default sending the correct message. I actually like him, but I don't really know much about him.


Cuomo's best attribute is how he handles crisises. He was amazing during Sandy and he knows what to do and how to make it look. Only reason he is trying to prolong Coronavirus is to give Biden a chance in the fall. When it comes to the fundamentals of an executive he is top notch. He does pander to the far left base of his party once in a while but when you look at him he is a moderate democrat who is fiscally conservative and socially Liberal. I wish the whole Dem party was like him.


Actually, the most powerful Democrats are like that. But, because of state media, MAGA fans believe they are not.

And, he is probably "trying to prolong coronavirus" because he is listening to medical experts and making decisions based on what the medical experts say instead of what he feels and what he wants.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
afcjets
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:57 am

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Back to the point, I don't think Whitmer would be a good VP pick. I didn't know who she was until recently when another poster was outraged s/he could not get paint at the hardware store. Maybe she will be considered for a cabinet position but I don't think she has the national recognition to carry the party.


That might be why she's closing off sections at Home Depot and not letting people self isolate in their vacation home.


Explain how bare root roses and shelving systems are essential to the health and well being of everyone? Explain how "I just wanna be someplace else for like a week" is essential to the health and well being of everyone?


Explain how driving to your vacation home puts anyone at risk.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:17 am

If I'm head of the DNC, I ask Biden to choose Warren, stating that she'll bring in some of the "Bernie Bros" while satisfying the far-left. In reality, I know the Sanders contingent stays home on Election Day, and Biden loses.

Why do I want a Biden/Warren ticket to lose? Easy:

o I get to blame it on Warren being too far to the left for most Americans, getting the far-left back in line with the party
o Biden won't tank the down-ballot candidates the way Bernie would have, so I remain competitive in state races and keep the House
o I get to see President Trump struggle with the challenge of any president's lifetime - recovering a Depression-like economy
o I get 4 years to vet and groom Andrew Cuomo as a moderate Democrat, the "man who saved New York," for a 2024 run
o I get a "Cuomo for America" campaign that energizes the Democratic base and assuming the economy hasn't fully recovered, win both houses of Congress

It's the Democrat "lose the battle, win the war" strategy. Because if Biden/Warren wins, they've got a good chance of inheriting a recovering economy that their policies subsequently halts, seeing massive defections back to the GOP in 2026, and no viable Democrat candidate (Biden will be too old, and Warren will be too - well, Warren) to stand in the way of Nikki Haley running in 2028.
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NIKV69
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:06 pm

seb146 wrote:

Do you have any proof to back this up?



I have relationships with people that work for Cruz, Newsom and Cuomo. I am not posting their info in a public forum but trust me they are all running in 4 years. I can't wait to see Cuomo carve up Newsom in a primary debate that will be great.



seb146 wrote:

Actually, the most powerful Democrats are like that. But, because of state media, MAGA fans believe they are not.

And, he is probably "trying to prolong coronavirus" because he is listening to medical experts and making decisions based on what the medical experts say instead of what he feels and what he wants.


You kidding me? Pelosi is fiscally conservative? LOL oh my is that a laugh.

The most powerful Dems are all far left fringe, you wish they were like Cuomo for your party would be in a much better place right now.
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PixelPilot
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:47 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
If I'm head of the DNC, I ask Biden to choose Warren, stating that she'll bring in some of the "Bernie Bros" while satisfying the far-left. In reality, I know the Sanders contingent stays home on Election Day, and Biden loses.

Why do I want a Biden/Warren ticket to lose? Easy:

o I get to blame it on Warren being too far to the left for most Americans, getting the far-left back in line with the party
o Biden won't tank the down-ballot candidates the way Bernie would have, so I remain competitive in state races and keep the House
o I get to see President Trump struggle with the challenge of any president's lifetime - recovering a Depression-like economy
o I get 4 years to vet and groom Andrew Cuomo as a moderate Democrat, the "man who saved New York," for a 2024 run
o I get a "Cuomo for America" campaign that energizes the Democratic base and assuming the economy hasn't fully recovered, win both houses of Congress

It's the Democrat "lose the battle, win the war" strategy. Because if Biden/Warren wins, they've got a good chance of inheriting a recovering economy that their policies subsequently halts, seeing massive defections back to the GOP in 2026, and no viable Democrat candidate (Biden will be too old, and Warren will be too - well, Warren) to stand in the way of Nikki Haley running in 2028.


That makes a lot of sense though there's one variable you are not considering.
Trump (obviously not him alone if anybody even needs this to be explained) picks up the economy and by 2024 this whole place is a like a well oiled machine again.
Would be hard to shift at that point.
 
afcjets
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:03 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
o I get 4 years to vet and groom Andrew Cuomo as a moderate Democrat, the "man who saved New York," for a 2024 run
o I get a "Cuomo for America" campaign that energizes the Democratic base and assuming the economy hasn't fully recovered, win both houses of Congress


Several months ago I predicted Gavin Neusome will be the next Democratic president. I think he would easily beat Cuomo in a primary. Younger, better looking, more progressive, bigger state, more successful in handling covid19, no family who works for CNN, worked great with Trump even though he has tons of lawsuits against him and more optimistic and someone most people would rather have a beer with which wins almost every time.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:30 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
That makes a lot of sense though there's one variable you are not considering.
Trump (obviously not him alone if anybody even needs this to be explained) picks up the economy and by 2024 this whole place is a like a well oiled machine again.
Would be hard to shift at that point.


I agree, although the scenario you’re talking about is an economy of record unemployment, wage growth, and so on - basically, he’d have to get us back to mirroring where we were pre-Coronavirus. Anything less, even just slightly less, will be a campaign point for the Democrats to pounce on.

Side note: Biden has really put himself in a predicament by promising he’ll nominate a woman, not because there are no capable Democrat women to align himself with (Klobuchar would be his best pick, IMHO) but because it opens him, and the Democrats, to attack by the GOP for highlighting that the Dems are the party of identity politics, as Biden didn’t say he wanted “to find the right candidate” but rather, the right woman.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11598
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:08 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
That makes a lot of sense though there's one variable you are not considering.
Trump (obviously not him alone if anybody even needs this to be explained) picks up the economy and by 2024 this whole place is a like a well oiled machine again.
Would be hard to shift at that point.


I agree, although the scenario you’re talking about is an economy of record unemployment, wage growth, and so on - basically, he’d have to get us back to mirroring where we were pre-Coronavirus. Anything less, even just slightly less, will be a campaign point for the Democrats to pounce on.

Side note: Biden has really put himself in a predicament by promising he’ll nominate a woman, not because there are no capable Democrat women to align himself with (Klobuchar would be his best pick, IMHO) but because it opens him, and the Democrats, to attack by the GOP for highlighting that the Dems are the party of identity politics, as Biden didn’t say he wanted “to find the right candidate” but rather, the right woman.



That;s ok, as long as Trump keeps Pence, The GOP can be labled a right wing misogynistic party with Aryan Christian fundamentalism intentions
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
apodino
Posts: 3926
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:16 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Do you have any proof to back this up?



I have relationships with people that work for Cruz, Newsom and Cuomo. I am not posting their info in a public forum but trust me they are all running in 4 years. I can't wait to see Cuomo carve up Newsom in a primary debate that will be great.



seb146 wrote:

Actually, the most powerful Democrats are like that. But, because of state media, MAGA fans believe they are not.

And, he is probably "trying to prolong coronavirus" because he is listening to medical experts and making decisions based on what the medical experts say instead of what he feels and what he wants.


You kidding me? Pelosi is fiscally conservative? LOL oh my is that a laugh.

The most powerful Dems are all far left fringe, you wish they were like Cuomo for your party would be in a much better place right now.


Please...this is such BS. If what you are saying is actually True, we would have a 15 dollar minimum wage, we would have Single Payer healthcare, and Wall Street would be held accountable for their actions.

In fact in the Commonwealth of Virginia, a state that is controlled completely by Democrats, the state was ranked 51st (DC was counted as a state in this ranking) for the working class in this country. (Krystall ball had the source during her monologue on the rising today. I will concede that the GOP controlled the State Assembly for years. That being said, even with a Democratic legislature and Governor, they could not pass a repeal of Right to Work laws, and the minimum wage hike they got was less than the 15 dollars being pushed by progressives. And just yesterday, Governor Northam issued an executive order delaying the Minimum wage increase due to the COVID-19 pandemic. In other words, the people who need help most doing the pandemic and are on the front lines are the ones this Governor is screwing over blaming this Pandemic?

The reason this is all happening is because the wealthy donors and lobbyists have told them behind closed doors what to do. If you think these people care about you, I have land in the Bahama's to sell you. This is exactly what would happen in a Biden administration as well. And this is the real reason why the Democratic party is not a better place right now. The party is controlled by liberal elites and wealthy white suburban voters now, not the working class.

I don't know who would win a debate between Newsom and Cuomo but I promise you that progressives will back Newsom over Cuomo anyday. Look at California and look at New York. Newsom is not the one who cut Medicaid funding by 400 million dollars during a crisis. Newsom is not the one who refused to raise taxes on the rich to help a budget shortfall.

And its for the same reason Joe Biden will not pick a progressive as is running mate. He will have Wall Street vet her before he picks and only when Wall Street signs off will she be introduced.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:22 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
That makes a lot of sense though there's one variable you are not considering.
Trump (obviously not him alone if anybody even needs this to be explained) picks up the economy and by 2024 this whole place is a like a well oiled machine again.
Would be hard to shift at that point.


I agree, although the scenario you’re talking about is an economy of record unemployment, wage growth, and so on - basically, he’d have to get us back to mirroring where we were pre-Coronavirus. Anything less, even just slightly less, will be a campaign point for the Democrats to pounce on.

Side note: Biden has really put himself in a predicament by promising he’ll nominate a woman, not because there are no capable Democrat women to align himself with (Klobuchar would be his best pick, IMHO) but because it opens him, and the Democrats, to attack by the GOP for highlighting that the Dems are the party of identity politics, as Biden didn’t say he wanted “to find the right candidate” but rather, the right woman.



Trying to use the state of the economy post coronavirus against trump would be a lose-lose situation for democrats any way you slice it.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15734
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:48 pm

casinterest wrote:
That;s ok, as long as Trump keeps Pence, The GOP can be labled a right wing misogynistic party with Aryan Christian fundamentalism intentions


Brandon Straka’s very active and growing “Walk Away” movement proves this is just another false talking point from the left, whereas more and more people are becoming keenly aware of the left trading in identity politics, where you’re either a victim or an oppressor, and Biden’s decision to only look for a female running mate further highlights this.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11598
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:50 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
casinterest wrote:
That;s ok, as long as Trump keeps Pence, The GOP can be labled a right wing misogynistic party with Aryan Christian fundamentalism intentions


Brandon Straka’s very active and growing “Walk Away” movement proves this is just another false talking point from the left, whereas more and more people are becoming keenly aware of the left trading in identity politics, where you’re either a victim or an oppressor, and Biden’s decision to only look for a female running mate further highlights this.



It isn't a talking point. It is a religion in the south for the GOP.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22543
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:12 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Do you have any proof to back this up?



I have relationships with people that work for Cruz, Newsom and Cuomo. I am not posting their info in a public forum but trust me they are all running in 4 years. I can't wait to see Cuomo carve up Newsom in a primary debate that will be great.


So, you can now say whatever you want because you "know a guy" and we are just supposed to take you at your word. Well, I "know a guy" and he says the current administration will suspend the Constitution and not allow any more elections. I will not post that information in a public forum but trust me. I know a guy.

I am not asking for their personal phone number or SSN or anything. When someone makes a claim, there are good sources out there to back it up. More than "I know a guy".



NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Actually, the most powerful Democrats are like that. But, because of state media, MAGA fans believe they are not.

And, he is probably "trying to prolong coronavirus" because he is listening to medical experts and making decisions based on what the medical experts say instead of what he feels and what he wants.


You kidding me? Pelosi is fiscally conservative? LOL oh my is that a laugh.

The most powerful Dems are all far left fringe, you wish they were like Cuomo for your party would be in a much better place right now.


Given Biden's age, I have no doubt he will not run in 2024, if we are allowed to have elections.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... n-congress
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... journ.html

He wants the courts stacked in his favor so he can be king. Congress has stalled on nominating his cronies to courts, so he wants to bypass that. Not even a power grab Obama wanted to try when Republicans blocked his nominee for SCOTUS.

And, yes, Pelosi is more fiscally responsible. She and Democrats fund things that have a return on investment. Like food stamps. And bumping people into higher tax brackets. Much more fiscally responsible than bailing out "too big to fail" international corporations who will simply pocket the money and put it back in stocks instead of hiring people.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3225
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:48 am

afcjets wrote:
Just like with Guilliani, I think the honeymoon with Cuomo will not last. I realize NY has a major crisis unlike anywhere in the US, but eventually I had to turn him off when I started calling him Governor Doom and Gloom. But since Trump had the AUDACITY to try and OFfer Americans HOPE (perhaps inspired by his predecessor ;) ), Cuomo was by default sending the correct message. I actually like him, but I don't really know much about him.


I've listen to a couple of interviews with Cuomo, one of the things he said that rang true to me was, if you told a New Yorker they had to stay inside for 30 days without giving them a reason they will tell you to "go f##k yourself", if you explain the situation to them in clear language, they are more liable to listen and agree. So yes doom and gloom, but honestly, it's working.

From talking to people I know, they hold him in very high regard, and the majority of them are firmly Republican, though maybe not Trump.

Anyways, he won't be a VP candidate, Biden does not need New York, he needs a swing state, I would say mayor Pete, but outside of Indiana he can't gain traction outside of the coasts.

IMHO that leaves Klobuchar or Whitmer, I would say Klobuchar has the edge.
 
winginit
Posts: 2886
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:53 am

If anyone thinks it's going to be anyone but Kamala Harris you'd do well to put your money where your mouth is (assuming you can legally do so).

In my mind there is no way, no way whatsoever that after the smack down that diverse women brought down on Republicans in the 2018 midterm elections that you don't see a diverse female VP along side Joe Biden.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3510
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:17 pm

winginit wrote:
If anyone thinks it's going to be anyone but Kamala Harris you'd do well to put your money where your mouth is (assuming you can legally do so).

In my mind there is no way, no way whatsoever that after the smack down that diverse women brought down on Republicans in the 2018 midterm elections that you don't see a diverse female VP along side Joe Biden.


That might be true but the Native American candidate would be a better choice because she brings more than just diversity.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13490
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:33 pm

winginit wrote:
If anyone thinks it's going to be anyone but Kamala Harris you'd do well to put your money where your mouth is (assuming you can legally do so).

In my mind there is no way, no way whatsoever that after the smack down that diverse women brought down on Republicans in the 2018 midterm elections that you don't see a diverse female VP along side Joe Biden.


Fine but she is too divisive and just think if something happens to Joe it's President Harris. That alone will lose Biden the election. Safe play is Klobuchar or Whitmer.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
afcjets
Posts: 3510
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:54 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Fine but she is too divisive and just think if something happens to Joe it's President Harris. That alone will lose Biden the election. Safe play is Klobuchar or Whitmer.


I don't think Whitmer is a safe choice, but it wouldn't surprise me if he picks her.
 
winginit
Posts: 2886
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
If anyone thinks it's going to be anyone but Kamala Harris you'd do well to put your money where your mouth is (assuming you can legally do so).

In my mind there is no way, no way whatsoever that after the smack down that diverse women brought down on Republicans in the 2018 midterm elections that you don't see a diverse female VP along side Joe Biden.


Fine but she is too divisive and just think if something happens to Joe it's President Harris. That alone will lose Biden the election. Safe play is Klobuchar or Whitmer.


It's unlikely that a VP choice will impact that election at all in practice with the sole exception of in states where the VP candidate is from. Again, you can't spin double digit unemployment and tens of thousands of dead Americans regardless of fault, and those realities would and will likely drag down any incumbent, including Trump, if they're at the forefront of the news cycle come November. The end.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:42 pm

winginit wrote:

It's unlikely that a VP choice will impact that election at all in practice with the sole exception of in states where the VP candidate is from.


I think the VP choice was a key part of Trump winning in 2016. Pence had the credibility with the evangelical base of the Republican Party that Trump clearly lacked. It wouldn’t have taken many of them staying home to flip Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

That’s the dilemma Biden faces with this pick. Is there a core group of the Democratic Party that won’t show up in force for him, or is Trump polarizing enough to prevent that? Does Biden need someone with real strength at the liberal end of the party, or can he play to independent voters or perhaps try to flip a state with a pick from that state?

Trump was dead in the water without evangelicals and they had real doubts about him. Does Biden have a similar problem on the left?
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
winginit
Posts: 2886
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: VP Choice for the democratic party.

Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:04 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
winginit wrote:

It's unlikely that a VP choice will impact that election at all in practice with the sole exception of in states where the VP candidate is from.


I think the VP choice was a key part of Trump winning in 2016. Pence had the credibility with the evangelical base of the Republican Party that Trump clearly lacked. It wouldn’t have taken many of them staying home to flip Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

That’s the dilemma Biden faces with this pick. Is there a core group of the Democratic Party that won’t show up in force for him, or is Trump polarizing enough to prevent that? Does Biden need someone with real strength at the liberal end of the party, or can he play to independent voters or perhaps try to flip a state with a pick from that state?

Trump was dead in the water without evangelicals and they had real doubts about him. Does Biden have a similar problem on the left?


You'll find 2020 is not 2016, and that's sort of my point here. Coronavirus and it's fallout are and will be, in my mind, all encompassing come the election; and I'm of the opinion that double digit unemployment, a devastating recession, and thousands of dead Americans would and will sink literally any President's chances of re-election regardless of the challenger's VP choice.

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