Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:10 pm

seb146 wrote:

Are ERISA pensions funded 75 years out for employees? Employees that are not even hired yet like USPS? I get funding for employees already hired. But pre-funding employees who are not even born yet???


That is patently false. They are not required to prefund for employees who aren't on payroll. Please stop citing bad memes from twitter and facebook without doing the research.

The law requires them to plan for the future liabilities of all current employees. For example, a 45 year old has a life expectancy of 78 years, so they are required to account for 34 years in the future for them. Accounting guidelines requires them to plan for 75 years, NOT to prepay for 75 years.

This is the third time I've said this here and the first time I posted it I provided sources.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4789
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:09 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Are ERISA pensions funded 75 years out for employees? Employees that are not even hired yet like USPS? I get funding for employees already hired. But pre-funding employees who are not even born yet???


That is patently false. They are not required to prefund for employees who aren't on payroll. Please stop citing bad memes from twitter and facebook without doing the research.

The law requires them to plan for the future liabilities of all current employees. For example, a 45 year old has a life expectancy of 78 years, so they are required to account for 34 years in the future for them. Accounting guidelines requires them to plan for 75 years, NOT to prepay for 75 years.

This is the third time I've said this here and the first time I posted it I provided sources.


I did find it strange, but honestly couldn't be bothered to do the research. Knowing the source, should have imagined something weird was going on. Thanks for clearing that up and allowing me to continue my quarantine laziness.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2986
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:48 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I really don't understand the constant turmoil around privatizing USPS. So many of the socialist countries the Left fetishizes have already either fully or partially privatized their postal services. Banking services would also be good, provided the USPS was privatized.


Not sure which countries you are refering to as Socialist but there are only a handful of Socalist countries in the world and most of them are in an appaling shape. If you mean the Nordics and some European countries, they aren't Socialist. They are simply social democracies / capitalist countries with socialised sections (e.g NHS in the UK). It's really not hard to be in the centre/ slightly to the left compared to the US.

Royal Mail was privatised in the UK. Was sold off as a PLC, the Govenment was blamed because the share prise rose by 80% over a few years. Caused uproar when it happened. Employees were promised shares and proft sharing. Didn't really go that way, with strikes following and closures left right and centre. Most post offices that were shut were then integrated into convienence stores. You can bank at a post office, buy foreign currency, send all sorts of parcels and post. The actual service offered for sending mail is very good. For parcels however it's incredibly poor and expensive.

DHL in Germany - run the postal service and have done since 1995, however the govenment still holds a hefty chunk of the ownership. From my experience, it's a decent service but I live in a city where my post is delivered by bike and any DHL parcels are delivered by van.

Be careful what you wish for. Privitisation if done correctly can work, but if not done right will decimate the service.

The socialist pejorative was tongue-in-cheek, of course, but then again the far Left here doesn't seem too concerned about the label given that folks like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez proudly label themselves Democratic socialists.

I'd actually be willing to have the conversation on having a more robust social safety net similar to some of the Nordics...provided, of course, the liberals who idolize those countries be willing to implement some of their other policies such as low corporate income tax, no minimum wage, less regulation, etc.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:07 pm

Ultimately the USPS is at least as effective than much of the US military, and the military is full of pensioners as well (and quite few end up in the USPS). Like the Coast Guard is the most undervalued and underfunded compared to the actual work and job they do, the USPS does an actual job every single day that serves the interests of the of the citizens of the United States. If people are OK with the over-bloated budgets of the US military, they really can't complain much about the USPS.

Just address the problems.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:48 am

seb146 wrote:
If USPS were privatized, those who have no internet who pay their bills the old fashioned way will pay at least $15 for an envelope delivery. Probably more since we all know competition raises prices. Both FedEx and UPS use USPS for delivery to rural areas as well. With USPS privatized, they would "get" to charge more for rural delivery.

Oh, and it would count out vote-by-mail.

Why this obsession with privatizing a Constitutional entity that was just fine until just a few years ago when demands were put on it?


Many banks offer ways to pay bills usi9ng a "Bill Pay" service that be accessed with a cell phone. No internet required.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 22538
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:21 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
If USPS were privatized, those who have no internet who pay their bills the old fashioned way will pay at least $15 for an envelope delivery. Probably more since we all know competition raises prices. Both FedEx and UPS use USPS for delivery to rural areas as well. With USPS privatized, they would "get" to charge more for rural delivery.

Oh, and it would count out vote-by-mail.

Why this obsession with privatizing a Constitutional entity that was just fine until just a few years ago when demands were put on it?


Many banks offer ways to pay bills usi9ng a "Bill Pay" service that be accessed with a cell phone. No internet required.


I work with the public doing printing and graphic design now. The average age in this county is like 70. They have "smart phones" but they do not know how to use them. Every day, I hear "I was told this phone could do anything but I can't do anything with it" or "I don't want people stealing my information" or some excuse as to why they will not use their phone for what it can be used for. Also, there is a lot of land out there where people live but there is no or poor data connection.

I think a lot of people are aware of the options but do not use them. We need a back up plan. USPS is ours.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 22538
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:25 pm

Pyrex wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Are ERISA pensions funded 75 years out for employees? Employees that are not even hired yet like USPS? I get funding for employees already hired. But pre-funding employees who are not even born yet???


That is patently false. They are not required to prefund for employees who aren't on payroll. Please stop citing bad memes from twitter and facebook without doing the research.

The law requires them to plan for the future liabilities of all current employees. For example, a 45 year old has a life expectancy of 78 years, so they are required to account for 34 years in the future for them. Accounting guidelines requires them to plan for 75 years, NOT to prepay for 75 years.

This is the third time I've said this here and the first time I posted it I provided sources.


I did find it strange, but honestly couldn't be bothered to do the research. Knowing the source, should have imagined something weird was going on. Thanks for clearing that up and allowing me to continue my quarantine laziness.


It was one of the requirements Republicans threw in there so the USPS would fail and they could point and say "Look how terrible it is! We must privatize it now!" They do this with many things. Set up government agencies for failure then say how poorly managed and poorly funded it is and want to privatize it. They did that with Social Security and Medicare, too.

https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/finan ... _4_002.htm
https://ips-dc.org/how-congress-manufac ... to-fix-it/
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... al-service

This pre-funding has been a well known and thoroughly discussed topic.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:44 pm

From the USPS source you provided:

The pre-funding requirement, as it currently stands, contributes significantly to postal losses. Under current law, the Postal Service must follow a mandated pre-funding schedule of $5.5 billion to $5.8 billion per year through 2016.


Those payments were catch up payments.

Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?

I really don't understand the disconnect here. It was a bipartisan bill for crying out loud.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4789
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:56 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
From the USPS source you provided:

The pre-funding requirement, as it currently stands, contributes significantly to postal losses. Under current law, the Postal Service must follow a mandated pre-funding schedule of $5.5 billion to $5.8 billion per year through 2016.


Those payments were catch up payments.

Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?

I really don't understand the disconnect here. It was a bipartisan bill for crying out loud.


I am sure he would be crying foul if any company ran such a massively underfunded pension plan and then went tits-up, leaving the government (PGBC) to hold the bag.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6270
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:36 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?


What about the federal government employee pension plan?

Which by the way is the pension plan ALL members of Congress have been under since Rep Ralph Hall of Texas retired in 2015 - the last member of Congress who elected to stay under the old system when Reagan forced congress into the same retirement as other federal employees, and required all federal employees including Congress to start paying into Social Security.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:48 pm

Fortunately for the USPS there are new bipartisan bills being brought forth to correct the failures in the 2006 reform bill.

The USPS Fairness Act (H.R. 2382) had more than 300 cosponsors, including more than five-dozen Republicans. Sen. Steve Daines, R-Mont., has introduced a companion bill (S. 2965) in the Senate with Sen. Brian Schatz, D-Hawaii. The measure would eliminate the requirement going forward and forgive all payments on which USPS has defaulted.

https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/20 ... re/162912/

And for those willing to be open to the fact that there were legitimate problems in the 2006 bill (like transferring $27 billion in pension benefits for military service from the Treasury to the USPS), this is a very good overview of what those are and how they impacted things:
https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL33618.html

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:49 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
From the USPS source you provided:

The pre-funding requirement, as it currently stands, contributes significantly to postal losses. Under current law, the Postal Service must follow a mandated pre-funding schedule of $5.5 billion to $5.8 billion per year through 2016.


Those payments were catch up payments.

Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?

I really don't understand the disconnect here. It was a bipartisan bill for crying out loud.


Yet when the MSM reports on the matter, their headline is "TRUMP sign bill..." ---to focus the narrative on him, and not on the Ds and Rs that voted for the Bill.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:52 pm

What the heck are you on about? What "MSM" are people hearing this on? Some people seem to want to continually beat a fake "MSM" drum as if it is separate from actual public working free press, continuing to try to divide people into camps. And some just try to bait people that don't look farther than the webpage they're reading.

I mean seriously, who thinking "TRUMP sign[sic]" or was involved?

Because the bill that created the problems (some of the problems, the currently being discussed problems, there were many problems already in action prior) was the 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act, signed into law by GW Bush. So not sure where anyone gets that Trump was involved.

The only significant bill "TRUMP sign[sic]" regarding the USPS was one to help address opioids sent via US Mail, actually pretty good thing to sign (and also bi-partisan).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6080
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:55 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?


What about the federal government employee pension plan?

Which by the way is the pension plan ALL members of Congress have been under since Rep Ralph Hall of Texas retired in 2015 - the last member of Congress who elected to stay under the old system when Reagan forced congress into the same retirement as other federal employees, and required all federal employees including Congress to start paying into Social Security.


What’s wrong? It’s not actuarially sound. It’s all based on pay as you go requiring present employees to pay for present retirees. No, and I mean NO, private pension plan would be legally funded that way. BTW, 12 years at a private employer’s pension plan is 90% funded and pays more than 17 years at FERS.

GF
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6270
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:00 pm

I have the same experience with USN military retirement and a private, well publicly held company, but my question was

why is it such a big deal for the Postal Service to get caught up, and no one mentions FERS?
Not all who wander are lost.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:05 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?


What about the federal government employee pension plan?

Which by the way is the pension plan ALL members of Congress have been under since Rep Ralph Hall of Texas retired in 2015 - the last member of Congress who elected to stay under the old system when Reagan forced congress into the same retirement as other federal employees, and required all federal employees including Congress to start paying into Social Security.


What’s wrong? It’s not actuarially sound. It’s all based on pay as you go requiring present employees to pay for present retirees. No, and I mean NO, private pension plan would be legally funded that way. BTW, 12 years at a private employer’s pension plan is 90% funded and pays more than 17 years at FERS.

GF

Then why are there so many under funded private pension plans? And why isn't yours funded with the same 75 year the USPS is required to? And shouldn't your private pension also also take over and military pensions as well, like the USPS?

Just curious.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:12 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
I have the same experience with USN military retirement and a private, well publicly held company, but my question was

why is it such a big deal for the Postal Service to get caught up, and no one mentions FERS?

Well something like half of the funding shortfall is due to the dumping of military pensions onto them. And then there is requirement to prefund 75 years worth of retiree health benefits over the span of ten years.

Those both made it impossible to meet the requirement.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6270
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:42 am

I wasn't aware of any dumping of military pensions onto FERS.

I understand from what I read each year that there are still line item budgets for MilPay (Active), MilPay (Reserve) and MilPay (Retired) in the DOD Budget. Also line item in the DOD Budget for Health Care (Tricare). Lumped under Tricare is Active Duty dependent and Retiree health care.

My military health care ended when I turned 65. I'm under Medicare Part A & B and pay the full Medicare Part B premium every month. I do have a Tricare for Life Medicare supplement at no additional costs to me, which includes the Tricare prescription drugs program, which are paid under the Tricare line item in the DOD Budget. Space available care a military treatment facilities is available to military retirees, after all active duty, reserve duty and active duty dependents have been cared for.

Military treatment facilities are seldom acquainted with the needs of senior citizens, but some of the larger hospitals on major bases do have expertise in those areas. It is true that many military retirees choose to live places like San Antonio, San Diego and Copperas Cove, TX to be near military major treatment facilities.

My hearing aids are a Service Connected Disability and at no cost to me under the VA.

Frankly the very best part of my military retirement is the health care, not the pay which is barely above my social security (I paid social security every pay check of my military career. And every year of my post military career, a longer period of time.).

The best part of that is that I can ignore all the sign up for this supplement and that supplement and this part D plan and this Advantage plan that bombards my brother and sister each year.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
User avatar
seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 22538
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:39 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Seriously what is so controversial about making sure the pension plan is properly funded? If they want one of the best pension plans in the world then you gotta fund it. How is this even controversial?


What about the federal government employee pension plan?

Which by the way is the pension plan ALL members of Congress have been under since Rep Ralph Hall of Texas retired in 2015 - the last member of Congress who elected to stay under the old system when Reagan forced congress into the same retirement as other federal employees, and required all federal employees including Congress to start paying into Social Security.


What’s wrong? It’s not actuarially sound. It’s all based on pay as you go requiring present employees to pay for present retirees. No, and I mean NO, private pension plan would be legally funded that way. BTW, 12 years at a private employer’s pension plan is 90% funded and pays more than 17 years at FERS.

GF


Republicans demanded USPS funding 75 years out. For employees that will not even be taking those benefits. Also, with companies cutting their work force (before covid-19), adding more work, and freezing pay so they could keep making money hand over fist. In the American service based economy, we do not get any benefits.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:03 pm

if the benefits are all pre-funded will there be a time in the future where the payments will drastically drop since most of the expense had already been funded?
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 331
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:46 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
I'd actually be willing to have the conversation on having a more robust social safety net similar to some of the Nordics...provided, of course, the liberals who idolize those countries be willing to implement some of their other policies such as low corporate income tax, no minimum wage, less regulation, etc.


That's fine. Just bear in mind these countries have much higher personal tax rates than the US, higher VAT, much higher fuel duty, higher alcohol tax which helps pay for that satefy net. Also there are more consumer rights, higher minimum wages, more rights for employees, more paid vacation, paid sick leave, often union's have representation on company boards etc etc. Corporation tax is lower in some countries e.g Germany and UK but Sweden, Norway are all 22%. Regulation / red tape is as high if not in most cases higher than the US.

Some countries don't have minimum wages e.g Norway / Denmark but their average minimum paid wages are 18-20 $ per hour. Germany's minimum legal wage is over 8$ per hour, UK's is over 10$. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... by_country
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:00 pm

Wow. I guess I'm just going to be ignored then. I'll stop posting in this thread since no one will read the sources I provided to see that the 75 year part of the law is an accounting requirement, and not a "prefunding" requirement in which they must make payments into a pension plan today for someone who may be receiving the benefit 75 years from now. There is a prefunding requirement that was part of a catchup plan to ensure existing benefits for CURRENT retirees were covered. That's it. The thread should be locked because it was started on a false premise based on a very misleading meme from twitter or facebook.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:55 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Wow. I guess I'm just going to be ignored then. I'll stop posting in this thread since no one will read the sources I provided to see that the 75 year part of the law is an accounting requirement, and not a "prefunding" requirement in which they must make payments into a pension plan today for someone who may be receiving the benefit 75 years from now. There is a prefunding requirement that was part of a catchup plan to ensure existing benefits for CURRENT retirees were covered. That's it.

While you may be partially right, I can't really speak to the accounting element, the big fail part of that accounting part is that it must also include medical coverage as well. And other pension systems are not required to do that. In fact often, that is one of the ways pension obligations are trimmed. Yes it sucks for the retiree but it is something else that was added to the USPS that is not on others.

And by the way, I would LOVE for health costs to be required to be funded ahead across all sectors. But to do it to just one is not appropriate. (As well as the military pension costs which you are ignoring).

But as I noted, it does appear this will be addressed with new bills in congress.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:57 pm

Tugger wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Wow. I guess I'm just going to be ignored then. I'll stop posting in this thread since no one will read the sources I provided to see that the 75 year part of the law is an accounting requirement, and not a "prefunding" requirement in which they must make payments into a pension plan today for someone who may be receiving the benefit 75 years from now. There is a prefunding requirement that was part of a catchup plan to ensure existing benefits for CURRENT retirees were covered. That's it.

While you may be partially right, I can't really speak to the accounting element, the big fail part of that accounting part is that it must also include medical coverage as well. And other pension systems are not required to do that. In fact often, that is one of the ways pension obligations are trimmed. Yes it sucks for the retiree but it is something else that was added to the USPS that is not on others.

And by the way, I would LOVE for health costs to be required to be funded ahead across all sectors. But to do it to just one is not appropriate. (As well as the military pension costs which you are ignoring).

But as I noted, it does appear this will be addressed with new bills in congress.

Tugg


The military pension costs is a bad provision. I do not disagree with that.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4250
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:52 pm

Pension that offer somewhere in the 50-60% of final salaries plus an unguaranteed bit for medical cost an amount equal to an additional 16-20% of salary. This may be enough to include but not guaranteed annual increases the same as social security. The annual increase and that bit for medical give the fund wiggle room to ensure the basic retirement. In my view, all retirement programs should be fully funded. But the transition cannot be done for the years in which it was not done. The problem for civil service is that we really do not want the government to control such a huge amount of money in the stock market, and other higher performing assets.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10616
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:19 pm

And don't forget that over the past 20 years medical costs have increased from 4-10% per year, a very high rate for anyone to manage looking 75 years into the future.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6270
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:59 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The problem for civil service is that we really do not want the government to control such a huge amount of money in the stock market, and other higher performing assets.


That is one of the reasons that the Congress pulled the Social Security Administration out of the ability to invest in something besides government bonds.

Social Security currently controls $2.9 Trillon in funds. Imagine what impact it would have on stocks if SS bought and sold like other large investors do.

That $2.9 Trillion is almost 10% of the entire US government dept. SS is the single biggest debtor of the US government. Despite doom and gloom forecast, SS has yet to have a negative cash flow year where expenditures exceeded income. Yes part of that income is redeeming government bonds which become due, and reinvesting much of the money into more government bonds.

The Office of Personnel Management (federal civilian employees) is almost one Trillion dollars invested in government bonds.

The Military Fund is over $900 billion invested in government bonds.

Medicare has $300 billion plus invested in government bonds.

People talk about China holding most of the US debt. It does not. The biggest holder of US debt is the US people.

China currently holds the largest portion of FOREIGN owned debt.

And note, all the federal pension and such government bonds are FIRST PAY debt. If the US govt cannot make debt payments, Social Security gets first payment, then the other pension plans. China falls to the tail of the line, behind Savings Bonds.

Note that the ENTIRE capitalization of the NYSE is only about 15.5 Trillion. The US Government agencies like SS could own and control nearly one third of ALL NYSE stocks. They could buy the entire value of the entire Shanghai Exchange, or EURONEXT.

Does anyone really want a US administration to have that much economic power in the world?
Not all who wander are lost.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2986
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:19 am

Reinhardt wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I'd actually be willing to have the conversation on having a more robust social safety net similar to some of the Nordics...provided, of course, the liberals who idolize those countries be willing to implement some of their other policies such as low corporate income tax, no minimum wage, less regulation, etc.


That's fine. Just bear in mind these countries have much higher personal tax rates than the US, higher VAT, much higher fuel duty, higher alcohol tax which helps pay for that satefy net.

Yep. Which is at least a straight-forward trade-off to try and persuade someone on. You kind of contradict yourself a bit, but the Nordic countries actually have no minimum wages, Denmark and Sweden are very globalized with liberalized and free trade with much of the world, have low corporate tax rates, and actually have regulatory frameworks that are more efficient and less burdensome than even the US. As I said, I'd be open to having the conversation in some of these areas, but the Left in the US is antithetical to free trade (gLoBaliSm) and think a Nordic-style safety net can be funded just by raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy, which is utterly false. As you point out, there is a much-increased tax burden across the board.

Moreover, the Left in the US has also never had the austerity experiences of many European countries of the 70s/80s whereby the consensus emerged that robust safety nets needed robust economies to support them...hence the shift back toward market-friendly policies that have made countries like Denmark and New Zealand more economically free than the US even.

Reinhardt wrote:
Corporation tax is lower in some countries e.g Germany and UK but Sweden, Norway are all 22%. Regulation / red tape is as high if not in most cases higher than the US.

The US corporate tax rate was only just recently lowered. Prior to 2018, it was 35% and you'll find it a popular calling among the Left in the US to raise it back up.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4250
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Another Casualty of Covid-19: US Postal Service

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:57 am

The whole FDR New Deal, the UN, WTO, NATO, are largely Democrat's contribution to the economy and the free trade. The implicit American First policies of the Republican party (tempered in the past by Wall Street and big business, and oddly enough most university professors) is exemplified by the multiple trade wars of our current president. And of course all of this is relative, no party is or can be 'pure' on these and other issues.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: apodino, Bostrom, casinterest, extender, JJJ, olle, Reinhardt, Sokes and 59 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos