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GDB
Topic Author
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Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:00 pm

Was somewhat surprised to be reminded how long ago it was, the 2nd worst terror attack on US soil;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51735115
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15111
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:57 pm

This is also the day in 1993 of the deadly Waco raid by Federal law enforcement that was a factor behind the OKC bombing.

Many of us on the east coast and midwest USA were at the beginning of our work days. Many left work for home out of fear of other attacks. Many at first thought, like with the 1993 WTC Bombing in NYC, that it was 'islamic terrorists', for that day and following days persons who 'looked Muslim' were attacked and harassed. Finally it was determined a White, 'christian' European descendant male did this, caught by his extremist views by not registering his car and no license plate, stopped by luck by an alert police officer, arrested and in jail for that and them determined to be the prime suspect.

This, like other terror events, caused major changes as to government buildings including banning parking close to building by any vehicles, truck traffic banned past them, streets near and around them blocked from any motor vehicle traffic, entering them like going for an airplane flight with TSA level security checks, x-rays of packages and metal detectors. New government buildings, including the replacement and renovations of government buildings from deep setbacks from streets and designs to limit direct bomb damage. The main perp of this act of mass terrorism got the death penalty, his main associate in jail for life after trials.

I hope we never see another such a domestic attack toward government, but I fear the rising extremist Right, as seen with recent protests by a few in several states, may encourage them again.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1396
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:34 pm

ltbewr wrote:
This is also the day in 1993 of the deadly Waco raid by Federal law enforcement that was a factor behind the OKC bombing.

Many of us on the east coast and midwest USA were at the beginning of our work days. Many left work for home out of fear of other attacks. Many at first thought, like with the 1993 WTC Bombing in NYC, that it was 'islamic terrorists', for that day and following days persons who 'looked Muslim' were attacked and harassed. Finally it was determined a White, 'christian' European descendant male did this, caught by his extremist views by not registering his car and no license plate, stopped by luck by an alert police officer, arrested and in jail for that and them determined to be the prime suspect.

This, like other terror events, caused major changes as to government buildings including banning parking close to building by any vehicles, truck traffic banned past them, streets near and around them blocked from any motor vehicle traffic, entering them like going for an airplane flight with TSA level security checks, x-rays of packages and metal detectors. New government buildings, including the replacement and renovations of government buildings from deep setbacks from streets and designs to limit direct bomb damage. The main perp of this act of mass terrorism got the death penalty, his main associate in jail for life after trials.

I hope we never see another such a domestic attack toward government, but I fear the rising extremist Right, as seen with recent protests by a few in several states, may encourage them again.

How well known were Waco and Oklahoma City internationally before those two events.
 
LabQuest
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:06 pm

ltbewr wrote:
This is also the day in 1993 of the deadly Waco raid by Federal law enforcement that was a factor behind the OKC bombing.


McVeigh was at Waco watching it unfold while selling anti-government merchandise to onlookers. Crazy to think about.
 
winginit
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:45 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
This is also the day in 1993 of the deadly Waco raid by Federal law enforcement that was a factor behind the OKC bombing.

Many of us on the east coast and midwest USA were at the beginning of our work days. Many left work for home out of fear of other attacks. Many at first thought, like with the 1993 WTC Bombing in NYC, that it was 'islamic terrorists', for that day and following days persons who 'looked Muslim' were attacked and harassed. Finally it was determined a White, 'christian' European descendant male did this, caught by his extremist views by not registering his car and no license plate, stopped by luck by an alert police officer, arrested and in jail for that and them determined to be the prime suspect.

This, like other terror events, caused major changes as to government buildings including banning parking close to building by any vehicles, truck traffic banned past them, streets near and around them blocked from any motor vehicle traffic, entering them like going for an airplane flight with TSA level security checks, x-rays of packages and metal detectors. New government buildings, including the replacement and renovations of government buildings from deep setbacks from streets and designs to limit direct bomb damage. The main perp of this act of mass terrorism got the death penalty, his main associate in jail for life after trials.

I hope we never see another such a domestic attack toward government, but I fear the rising extremist Right, as seen with recent protests by a few in several states, may encourage them again.


Uh, rising up against the government is kind of a big part of US history. Maybe demand that our leaders don't act like tyrants and it'll all be ok.


Oh or else the rednecks with their AR15s will rise up against.... let's see... Predator drones. Good luck with that. The firepower discrepancy between government and civilians is completely different from where it's ever been in history - making any sort of meaningful armed uprising impossible. full stop. the end.

Cute little fantasy you have there though.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:56 pm

winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
This is also the day in 1993 of the deadly Waco raid by Federal law enforcement that was a factor behind the OKC bombing.

Many of us on the east coast and midwest USA were at the beginning of our work days. Many left work for home out of fear of other attacks. Many at first thought, like with the 1993 WTC Bombing in NYC, that it was 'islamic terrorists', for that day and following days persons who 'looked Muslim' were attacked and harassed. Finally it was determined a White, 'christian' European descendant male did this, caught by his extremist views by not registering his car and no license plate, stopped by luck by an alert police officer, arrested and in jail for that and them determined to be the prime suspect.

This, like other terror events, caused major changes as to government buildings including banning parking close to building by any vehicles, truck traffic banned past them, streets near and around them blocked from any motor vehicle traffic, entering them like going for an airplane flight with TSA level security checks, x-rays of packages and metal detectors. New government buildings, including the replacement and renovations of government buildings from deep setbacks from streets and designs to limit direct bomb damage. The main perp of this act of mass terrorism got the death penalty, his main associate in jail for life after trials.

I hope we never see another such a domestic attack toward government, but I fear the rising extremist Right, as seen with recent protests by a few in several states, may encourage them again.


Uh, rising up against the government is kind of a big part of US history. Maybe demand that our leaders don't act like tyrants and it'll all be ok.


Oh or else the rednecks with their AR15s will rise up against.... let's see... Predator drones. Good luck with that. The firepower discrepancy between government and civilians is completely different from where it's ever been in history - making any sort of meaningful armed uprising impossible. full stop. the end.

Cute little fantasy you have there though.


Nah. I'm pretty sure this president will have the backs of those willing to stand up against a tyrannical governor like Whitmer.
 
winginit
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:05 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Uh, rising up against the government is kind of a big part of US history. Maybe demand that our leaders don't act like tyrants and it'll all be ok.


Oh or else the rednecks with their AR15s will rise up against.... let's see... Predator drones. Good luck with that. The firepower discrepancy between government and civilians is completely different from where it's ever been in history - making any sort of meaningful armed uprising impossible. full stop. the end.

Cute little fantasy you have there though.


Nah. I'm pretty sure this president will have the backs of those willing to stand up against a tyrannical governor like Whitmer.


I suppose he'd have to, because he sure as hell wouldn't have the military's support. Wouldn't do him much good, but carry on with your fantasy.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13413
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:27 pm

Few years ago I got a special middle of the night tour of the memorial. I got the pics on my hard drive. It was very deep.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:31 pm

winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:

Oh or else the rednecks with their AR15s will rise up against.... let's see... Predator drones. Good luck with that. The firepower discrepancy between government and civilians is completely different from where it's ever been in history - making any sort of meaningful armed uprising impossible. full stop. the end.

Cute little fantasy you have there though.


Nah. I'm pretty sure this president will have the backs of those willing to stand up against a tyrannical governor like Whitmer.


I suppose he'd have to, because he sure as hell wouldn't have the military's support. Wouldn't do him much good, but carry on with your fantasy.


Trump does have the power to send in the military to remove Whitmer if she continues to deny her constituents their constitutional rights.
 
winginit
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:05 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Nah. I'm pretty sure this president will have the backs of those willing to stand up against a tyrannical governor like Whitmer.


I suppose he'd have to, because he sure as hell wouldn't have the military's support. Wouldn't do him much good, but carry on with your fantasy.


Trump does have the power to send in the military to remove Whitmer if she continues to deny her constituents their constitutional rights.


Hahaha oh wow your fantasy has multiple chapters! You're so creative.

I would love to see your source to back the claim that the President of the United States can enlist the military to remove a duly elected Governor who has not otherwise breached federal law. I suppose you're using the assumption that this could happen if the Governor were to commit such violations, but comprehensive recall laws would of course come long before any sort of Presidential action. You're clearly not a lawyer. Keep dreaming though! Your fantasies of civil unrest are wildly entertaining.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:10 am

winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:

I suppose he'd have to, because he sure as hell wouldn't have the military's support. Wouldn't do him much good, but carry on with your fantasy.


Trump does have the power to send in the military to remove Whitmer if she continues to deny her constituents their constitutional rights.


Hahaha oh wow your fantasy has multiple chapters! You're so creative.

I would love to see your source to back the claim that the President of the United States can enlist the military to remove a duly elected Governor who has not otherwise breached federal law. I suppose you're using the assumption that this could happen if the Governor were to commit such violations, but comprehensive recall laws would of course come long before any sort of Presidential action. You're clearly not a lawyer. Keep dreaming though! Your fantasies of civil unrest are wildly entertaining.


Civil unrest is already happening. That's why the governor of MN backed off of his restrictions. The governors ad mayors of NJ, KS, and MS have been taken down by federal judges and AG's. They cannot do whatever they please regardless of what you think.
 
winginit
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:11 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Trump does have the power to send in the military to remove Whitmer if she continues to deny her constituents their constitutional rights.


Hahaha oh wow your fantasy has multiple chapters! You're so creative.

I would love to see your source to back the claim that the President of the United States can enlist the military to remove a duly elected Governor who has not otherwise breached federal law. I suppose you're using the assumption that this could happen if the Governor were to commit such violations, but comprehensive recall laws would of course come long before any sort of Presidential action. You're clearly not a lawyer. Keep dreaming though! Your fantasies of civil unrest are wildly entertaining.


Civil unrest is already happening. That's why the governor of MN backed off of his restrictions. The governors ad mayors of NJ, KS, and MS have been taken down by federal judges and AG's. They cannot do whatever they please regardless of what you think.


No source then backing your claim that the President can send in the military to remove a duly elected Governor? Didn't think so.

Move along.
 
LabQuest
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:12 am

winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
This is also the day in 1993 of the deadly Waco raid by Federal law enforcement that was a factor behind the OKC bombing.

Many of us on the east coast and midwest USA were at the beginning of our work days. Many left work for home out of fear of other attacks. Many at first thought, like with the 1993 WTC Bombing in NYC, that it was 'islamic terrorists', for that day and following days persons who 'looked Muslim' were attacked and harassed. Finally it was determined a White, 'christian' European descendant male did this, caught by his extremist views by not registering his car and no license plate, stopped by luck by an alert police officer, arrested and in jail for that and them determined to be the prime suspect.

This, like other terror events, caused major changes as to government buildings including banning parking close to building by any vehicles, truck traffic banned past them, streets near and around them blocked from any motor vehicle traffic, entering them like going for an airplane flight with TSA level security checks, x-rays of packages and metal detectors. New government buildings, including the replacement and renovations of government buildings from deep setbacks from streets and designs to limit direct bomb damage. The main perp of this act of mass terrorism got the death penalty, his main associate in jail for life after trials.

I hope we never see another such a domestic attack toward government, but I fear the rising extremist Right, as seen with recent protests by a few in several states, may encourage them again.


Uh, rising up against the government is kind of a big part of US history. Maybe demand that our leaders don't act like tyrants and it'll all be ok.


Oh or else the rednecks with their AR15s will rise up against.... let's see... Predator drones. Good luck with that. The firepower discrepancy between government and civilians is completely different from where it's ever been in history - making any sort of meaningful armed uprising impossible. full stop. the end.

Cute little fantasy you have there though.


And yet a bunch of cave dwellers and goat farmers in Afghanistan have kicked the ass of every super power that's tried to dominate them. Its not about winning the total war its the social upheaval that's the key. With a well armed citizenry the government has a much harder time with shenanigans.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:07 am

omg, is it just me, but the cluelessness of one poster is totally ruining this board.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15111
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:28 am

Sadly, memorial ceremonies couldn't be done on site, only via video on line, due to the pandemic.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11208
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:35 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
omg, is it just me, but the cluelessness of one poster is totally ruining this board.


you think these posts are bad, you should see the ones about civil aviation.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
GDB
Topic Author
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:57 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
omg, is it just me, but the cluelessness of one poster is totally ruining this board.


Yes it is, the squalid little fantasies of said poster.
The attached article in the initial post concentrates on the victims of this act of terror, wonder if he read it, or it not being mouth frothing paranoia from obvious con-men (hi Alex Jones) meant it is a bit too grown up for him?
 
melpax
Posts: 2037
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Oklahoma - 25 Years Ago 19th April

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:01 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
How well known were Waco and Oklahoma City internationally before those two events.


Koresh had some media attention in Australia not too long before the siege, as he'd lured quite a few Australians over to Waco, some of whom died in the siege.

The below report includes some accounts from Australians who escaped the cult (filmed prior to the siege), and Koresh himself - chilling....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KK-MVRk85E
Essendon - Whatever it takes......

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