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aerosreenivas
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:22 pm

I'm reading a few confirmed news that Kim Jong Un is already dead. Is anyone else getting the same info here?

This is the source:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... state.html
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:49 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
I'm reading a few confirmed news that Kim Jong Un is already dead. Is anyone else getting the same info here?

This is the source:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... state.html


NOTHING is confirm. It is the same two "news" source anyway.

One is the "Chinese backed source", which would be Hong Kong Satellite TV, that report Fatty Kim is dead. How reputable is HKSTV? Not very.

One is the "Japanese news source", which is Shukan Gendai, saying one of the Chinese doctor cite Fatty Kim in "vegetative state". The article is here:
https://gendai.ismedia.jp/articles/-/72 ... 3pTVVdzRg..

The Japanese report correlate to an earlier report on NBC News citing Fatty Kim to be in a vegetative state. And it also matched up with the initial US source citing Fatty Kim to be in "Grave Condition".

We will have to wait for North Korean news, I guess...
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:27 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:

The Japanese report correlate to an earlier report on NBC News citing Fatty Kim to be in a vegetative state. And it also matched up with the initial US source citing Fatty Kim to be in "Grave Condition".

We will have to wait for North Korean news, I guess...


So far, none of the major international news networks like BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, Fox News, and SKY News are not mentioning anything about Kim-Jong-Un's death. So, I will believe in his death only when it is reported in these news channels.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:13 pm

[quote="GDB"]I understand why many think that, however history suggests otherwise.
In the mid to late 80's no one thought by the end of the decade the Berlin Wall would be down, the Warsaw Pact would be fragmenting and the USSR would not long after cease to exist.[/quote]

I do not think you can really compare the DDR / Warsaw Pact with North Korea.

For starters, the North Koreans never had much of a tradition in democracy. Eastern Europe did, even though it had been put on hold by the soviets.

Secondly, the Warsaw Pact had access to western radio and, to a lesser extent, television. This gave them a rough idea of the western life style, values and current events. That’s a lot harder for the Koreans.

Thirdly, the Koreans have been brain-washed and indoctrinated to the same extent or worse as Nazi Germany. The Nazis had roughly 10 years and their people where willing to fight to the end even though it should have been obvious to all the war was lost. Now imagine that level of indoctrination multiplied by a [i]generation[/i] or 3. That’s North Korea for you.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:38 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

The Japanese report correlate to an earlier report on NBC News citing Fatty Kim to be in a vegetative state. And it also matched up with the initial US source citing Fatty Kim to be in "Grave Condition".

We will have to wait for North Korean news, I guess...


So far, none of the major international news networks like BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, Fox News, and SKY News are not mentioning anything about Kim-Jong-Un's death. So, I will believe in his death only when it is reported in these news channels.


This and none of the major news network in South Korea, Japan, or PRC/Taiwan/HK/Macau reported anything concrete yet.
 
B717fan
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:58 pm

Didn't North Korea actually announce the death of Kim Jong-Il several days after he actually died? So if Kim Jong-Un did die (IF), I'd imagine they'd do the same thing here.
 
winginit
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:10 pm

B717fan wrote:
Didn't North Korea actually announce the death of Kim Jong-Il several days after he actually died? So if Kim Jong-Un did die (IF), I'd imagine they'd do the same thing here.


It's different though because with Kim Jong-Il's death there was a crystal clear line of secession so there was actually an advantage to getting it moving. That's less true in this case.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:55 pm

For mainstream media announcing his death with some certainty will require an official NK announcement.

You can't announce the death of a head of state, especially one on the news regularly for launching ballistic missiles, on a rumor, even from good sources.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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DL717
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:13 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
I'm reading a few confirmed news that Kim Jong Un is already dead. Is anyone else getting the same info here?

This is the source:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... state.html


So sad. :sarcastic:
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GDB
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:37 am

petertenthije wrote:
GDB wrote:
I understand why many think that, however history suggests otherwise.
In the mid to late 80's no one thought by the end of the decade the Berlin Wall would be down, the Warsaw Pact would be fragmenting and the USSR would not long after cease to exist.


I do not think you can really compare the DDR / Warsaw Pact with North Korea.

For starters, the North Koreans never had much of a tradition in democracy. Eastern Europe did, even though it had been put on hold by the soviets.

Secondly, the Warsaw Pact had access to western radio and, to a lesser extent, television. This gave them a rough idea of the western life style, values and current events. That’s a lot harder for the Koreans.

Thirdly, the Koreans have been brain-washed and indoctrinated to the same extent or worse as Nazi Germany. The Nazis had roughly 10 years and their people where willing to fight to the end even though it should have been obvious to all the war was lost. Now imagine that level of indoctrination multiplied by a generation or 3. That’s North Korea for you.


All good points, however nothing lasts forever, if DPRK implodes, it won't be like I described most likely, you're right.
My wider point remains, if it does, we probably won't see it coming.
 
Flaps
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:29 am

It will take some time before NK makes any kind of announcement, one way or another. There will be a huge power vacuum to fill, major internal power struggles and an enormous amount of decisions to be made. A most significant one will be how to break the news to the NK people, creating a narrative for them, how to control their reactions and how to explain the succession. I don't see any of that happening until the power vacuum is at least somewhat stabilized. Who knows how long that will take. Could be quick and semi clean or could be messy and drawn out.
 
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seb146
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:48 am

Didn't he have his uncle executed for falling asleep in a meeting?

With China being their only trading partner, how much leverage would Beijing have in installing a leader? Could they install someone who is more open to opening trade with, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:57 am

I find it hard to believe that in 2020 the South Koreans don't have any assets within the top brass to tell them after TWO WEEKS whether or not Fatso is still alive.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:02 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
I find it hard to believe that in 2020 the South Koreans don't have any assets within the top brass to tell them after TWO WEEKS whether or not Fatso is still alive.


I am sure they know and are just waiting for NK to officially announce the death if the rumors are true that is.
 
winginit
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:15 am

seb146 wrote:
Didn't he have his uncle executed for falling asleep in a meeting?


Indeed.

seb146 wrote:
With China being their only trading partner, how much leverage would Beijing have in installing a leader? Could they install someone who is more open to opening trade with, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia?


No influence. The line of succession is purely within the family and pre-dates contemporary ties with China. It will be General Choe or it will be Kim's younger sister, who is married to General Choe's son.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:32 am

If true, the struggle for power created by the sudden vacuum might generate a lot of instability, which may not be good news for NK's neighbors. It would be interesting to know if China is readying its troops near the border to try and prevent a mass refugee influx in case it all went ugly.

The line of succession might be set, even with Kim Jong-Un having no direct descendent, but that doesn't mean that any number of higher ranking generals with enough followers within their ranks and with a long-brewing grudge might not take advantage of the event to try and seize their chance.

As for the fat kid, well, I can't say he didn't have it coming.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:22 am

Francoflier wrote:
If true, the struggle for power created by the sudden vacuum might generate a lot of instability, which may not be good news for NK's neighbors. It would be interesting to know if China is readying its troops near the border to try and prevent a mass refugee influx in case it all went ugly.

The line of succession might be set, even with Kim Jong-Un having no direct descendent, but that doesn't mean that any number of higher ranking generals with enough followers within their ranks and with a long-brewing grudge might not take advantage of the event to try and seize their chance.

As for the fat kid, well, I can't say he didn't have it coming.

As an American, I’d love to see China go through some hardship, this will be particularly hard especially on the heels of COVID. Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO SEE LIVES LOST. I want the average Joe North Korean to have a good life but it won’t come without a leadership shake up.

The Devils advocate in me wants to think NK set up a line of succession as soon as KJU took power. And he does have a child, but no knows how a 7 year old will handle a nuclear arsenal.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:28 am

GDB wrote:
In the mid to late 80's no one thought by the end of the decade the Berlin Wall would be down, the Warsaw Pact would be fragmenting and the USSR would not long after cease to exist.

If there are any transferrable lessons to be drawn, then it would be that there is a huge difference between the way the regime presents itself to the outside world and how fragile it may actually be. If you look at East Germany or Czechoslovakia, their geriatric poliburos derived their legitimacy from the Soviet occupation troops stationed in their respective countries. Once Gorbachev pulled the military rug from under them, it took only a gentle push and it all went down like a house of cards.
In the 70s/80s no one believed in the system anymore, not even the smarter commies. People wanted political freedoms, just as much as they wanted to buy jeans and Sony TVs.

I wish we knew what the average NK family talks about over a miserable dinner, when they are among themselves. Do they really believe in the system, they are forced to worship as part of their daily public routine? Do kids at a certain age receive from their parents in addition to the bees and birds also a things are a little different than what they tell at school talk from their parents the way I did and most of other kids? Are they genuinely grateful to glutonous Dear Leader for a bag of rice and barrell of kimchi to survive the winter, or they are well aware their country is in deep shit, but they can't do anything about it because of the military and China?
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:10 am

This uncertainty that is happening in North Korea, presents a great opportunity to the United States and South Korea to strategically bombard all the Nuclear Facilities there once and for all.

Don't you all think it is a opening for an 'New Chapter in the Korean Peninsula region?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:38 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
This uncertainty that is happening in North Korea, presents a great opportunity to the United States and South Korea to strategically bombard all the Nuclear Facilities there once and for all.

Don't you all think it is a opening for an 'New Chapter in the Korean Peninsula region?


Bombing would indeed be a new chapter for the Korean Peninsula, but I am guessing not the preferred outcome because Soeul would be in ruins at the very least.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:57 am

TWA772LR wrote:
The Devils advocate in me wants to think NK set up a line of succession as soon as KJU took power. And he does have a child, but no knows how a 7 year old will handle a nuclear arsenal.


Paranoid dictatorships rarely set up clear lines of succession. It tends to give an incentive to the "crown prince" to tip the incumbent off the throne.


aerosreenivas wrote:
This uncertainty that is happening in North Korea, presents a great opportunity to the United States and South Korea to strategically bombard all the Nuclear Facilities there once and for all.


Not really. The North Koreans are mole-rats, digging tunnels and bunkers all over the country. Nobody knows for certain where all the facilities are. If the US misses just one missile silo with a nuclear tipped ICBM sitting inside, it could mean sacrificing one or more US cities.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:02 am

winginit wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Didn't he have his uncle executed for falling asleep in a meeting?


Indeed.

seb146 wrote:
With China being their only trading partner, how much leverage would Beijing have in installing a leader? Could they install someone who is more open to opening trade with, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia?


No influence. The line of succession is purely within the family and pre-dates contemporary ties with China. It will be General Choe or it will be Kim's younger sister, who is married to General Choe's son.


China's main interest is to ensure that the anti-unification dictatorship survives. China will exert its influence at the first sign of trouble.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:51 am

so apparently, satellites provided by US intelligence agencies found Fatty Kim's private train on the north side of NK near Kim family private resort area.
it's been there since the 21th. China has dispatched, a crew of Dr.'s to go to NK to check on his health. I guess this happened once before where he had disappeared for
weeks at a time. It may be possible, that he is self-isolating though I'm not sure how the virus could have got to NK with its closed borders.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:11 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
so apparently, satellites provided by US intelligence agencies found Fatty Kim's private train on the north side of NK near Kim family private resort area.
it's been there since the 21th. China has dispatched, a crew of Dr.'s to go to NK to check on his health. I guess this happened once before where he had disappeared for
weeks at a time. It may be possible, that he is self-isolating though I'm not sure how the virus could have got to NK with its closed borders.


Not as closed as one may think. There are a few 'free economic zones' in the North that China uses to set up factories with dirt cheap labor (more like slavery, I assume). There is/was a lot of goods exchange across the border along with some Chinese personnel going back and forth.
Given that China wanted to keep the virus under wraps initially, it's not unthinkable that it would have had time to cross the border into NK, where it is likely to be wreaking havoc.

TWA772LR wrote:
And he does have a child, but no knows how a 7 year old will handle a nuclear arsenal.


Oh, I can think of one example... :wink2:
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ltbewr
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:05 pm

As I suggested earlier, it may be wishful thinking that Kim Jong-Un is dead, and that with the total control of media in NK, that rumors, gossip and any little sign of him, like his special train at a government/family resort, just gets overplayed to the hilt, adds to the mystery but it may be just in being in quarantine to keep COVID-19 from him.
If he had a serious illness or injury, had major surgery, he might be in a long recovery or had complications. I am surprised, and adding to the intrigue about him, is that he has made no video appearances. In almost all other countries their leaders have spoken directly to the public frequently, sometimes using remote video to show they are still in charge and doing their job. He and his advisors may also not want to show any weakness to the world and especially to his 'subjects' even in a video appearance.
 
rfields5421
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:22 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
I find it hard to believe that in 2020 the South Koreans don't have any assets within the top brass to tell them after TWO WEEKS whether or not Fatso is still alive.


North Korea seems to have solved a problem that plagues almost all governments world wide - leaks to the press.

For one thing, there is no press in the traditional sense. Every source of information for the people and foreigners is tightly controlled.

The officials which direct inside knowledge don't dare talk to a reporter, westerner, etc - because the punishment for even suspicion of leaking is swift, severe, and permanent. Even confirming the western press is asking such questions means a short walk to the grave.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:34 pm

Kim’s sister looks like someone out of The Nightmare Before Christmas.
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rfields5421
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:13 pm

I would also add to my previous post - the South Korean official line is that these rumors are just that - rumors not based on truth.

Their statements are clear - Dough Boy is alive and relative well, taking a restful break in Wonsan from the wonderful and glamorous city of Pyongyang.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:28 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
I find it hard to believe that in 2020 the South Koreans don't have any assets within the top brass to tell them after TWO WEEKS whether or not Fatso is still alive.


North Korea seems to have solved a problem that plagues almost all governments world wide - leaks to the press.


That's not what I meant. I meant a mole inside the NK security apparatus/government. Someone like Gordievsky or mirror opposite of Günther Guillaume: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Guillaume
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:28 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/asia/kim ... index.html

CNN 28 minutes ago is still saying he's alive.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:30 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
I find it hard to believe that in 2020 the South Koreans don't have any assets within the top brass to tell them after TWO WEEKS whether or not Fatso is still alive.


North Korea seems to have solved a problem that plagues almost all governments world wide - leaks to the press.


That's not what I meant. I meant a mole inside the NK security apparatus/government. Someone like Gordievsky or mirror opposite of Günther Guillaume: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Guillaume


Well if they have such a mole the most important thing is that (s)he can provide the intel. No need for it to be announced by SK, exposing their mole, just at the time when (s)he will be most useful.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
rfields5421
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:34 pm

As noted - having a mole that deep into the NK society would be the most dangerous job in the world. Heck, not being a mole, but a loyal member of the family is dangerous, with a short life expectancy.

Then there is the entirely complicated issue of getting the information out in time to be useful. The individual cited was only as successful as noted because the government he infiltrated did not have a draconian security system focused upon ensuring secrecy was actively enforced upon all the top people. The NK government is well documented as keeping as close, or closer, watch on the top insiders than the average citizen.

And as mentioned, if such a mole exists, why would the SK government risk revealing such a mole. Whether or not the entire world knows the health of the head of NK is not important. That a very few key people outside the country knew the truth is important.

I'm certainly not important enough to be in on such details, nor most of the people on this forum I suspect.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Sokes
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:52 pm

seb146 wrote:
Didn't he have his uncle executed for falling asleep in a meeting?

Sounds like in the movie "The Dictator".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMDQzITWJyU

Sounds also like "Falsehood in wartimes"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsehood_in_War-Time

Since when do I hear about evil Iran and evil North Korea? It's boring.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
wingman
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:07 pm

PPVRA wrote:
Kim’s sister looks like someone out of The Nightmare Before Christmas.


I'm liking Kim's little sister vs. Sarah Huckabee in Mud-a-Geddon I - Battle for Hearts and Minds (sponsored by Lysol), 8 rounds to the death in floss bikinis. I'll have to take Sarah in the 8th with a Flying Neck Snapper move that pops Lil' Kim's head like a snow pea. With Grandpa up in Red Heaven crooning "I'm so roneryyyyy!".
 
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Tugger
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:30 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
Kim Jong Un dying?

That would make him a zombie, right? :scratchchin: :duck:

Tugg
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SQ22
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Re: Kim Jong-Un dying?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:20 pm

Due to the fact that the news were not confirmed, this thread will be locked. Feel free to start a new thread when there will be confirmed news about this topic.

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