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blueflyer
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Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:49 pm

Ok, so a bit tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely wrong either.

Trump will issue an executive order under the Defense Production Act to force meat packing facilities to stay open. Several of them have closed already due to a viral outbreak among their employees The Labor Dept. will also issue guidance to shield plant owners from liability arising from staying open, and workplace recommendations to keep employees safe. No word on whether the liability protection is contingent on plant owners applying the Labor Dept's recommendations over worker protection.

Food manufacturing is the fifth largest source of jobs for undocumented workers.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-t ... _lead_pos2
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title was misleading
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12910
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:10 am

blueflyer wrote:
Ok, so a bit tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely wrong either.

Trump will issue an executive order under the Defense Production Act to force meat packing facilities to stay open. Several of them have closed already due to a viral outbreak among their employees The Labor Dept. will also issue guidance to shield plant owners from liability arising from staying open, and workplace recommendations to keep employees safe. No word on whether the liability protection is contingent on plant owners applying the Labor Dept's recommendations over worker protection.

Food manufacturing is the fifth largest source of jobs for undocumented workers.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-t ... _lead_pos2


Even better:

The workplace rules are just recommendations, not requirements, as they normally would, and no enforcement for those rules planned, period.

And at least one state has already declared that you are not eligible for unemployment benefit if you refuse to return to an unsafe workplace, that doesn´t implement those regulations.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
alfa164
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:28 pm

Well, it seems to be the only way to make undocumented entry subject to the death penalty. Stephen Miller must be licking his chops...

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:50 pm

at one time they used to have good unions, I'm sure that's not the case anymore.
 
BerenErchamion
Posts: 237
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Thu May 07, 2020 2:52 am

tommy1808 wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Ok, so a bit tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely wrong either.

Trump will issue an executive order under the Defense Production Act to force meat packing facilities to stay open. Several of them have closed already due to a viral outbreak among their employees The Labor Dept. will also issue guidance to shield plant owners from liability arising from staying open, and workplace recommendations to keep employees safe. No word on whether the liability protection is contingent on plant owners applying the Labor Dept's recommendations over worker protection.

Food manufacturing is the fifth largest source of jobs for undocumented workers.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-t ... _lead_pos2


Even better:

The workplace rules are just recommendations, not requirements, as they normally would, and no enforcement for those rules planned, period.

And at least one state has already declared that you are not eligible for unemployment benefit if you refuse to return to an unsafe workplace, that doesn´t implement those regulations.

best regards
Thomas


Let's be absolutely clear what this is: a stealth genocide.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Thu May 07, 2020 5:21 am

BerenErchamion wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Ok, so a bit tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely wrong either.

Trump will issue an executive order under the Defense Production Act to force meat packing facilities to stay open. Several of them have closed already due to a viral outbreak among their employees The Labor Dept. will also issue guidance to shield plant owners from liability arising from staying open, and workplace recommendations to keep employees safe. No word on whether the liability protection is contingent on plant owners applying the Labor Dept's recommendations over worker protection.

Food manufacturing is the fifth largest source of jobs for undocumented workers.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-t ... _lead_pos2


Even better:

The workplace rules are just recommendations, not requirements, as they normally would, and no enforcement for those rules planned, period.

And at least one state has already declared that you are not eligible for unemployment benefit if you refuse to return to an unsafe workplace, that doesn´t implement those regulations.

best regards
Thomas


Let's be absolutely clear what this is: a stealth genocide.


I wouldn´t go quite that far, but it certainly puts a fairly low price on a life.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Thu May 07, 2020 2:39 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Well, it seems to be the only way to make undocumented entry subject to the death penalty. Stephen Miller must be licking his chops...

:roll:

MAGAts not lining up for meat packing jobs? Weird.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 3:10 pm

WI Supreme Court Justice Pat Roggensack thinks plant workers aren't "regular folks."

"(The surge) was due to the meatpacking — that's where Brown County got the flare. It wasn't just the regular folks in Brown County."

Not regular people...In Brown County...Home of the *checks notes* Green Bay Packers.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump To Order Illegals To Keep Working

Thu May 07, 2020 3:12 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Well, it seems to be the only way to make undocumented entry subject to the death penalty. Stephen Miller must be licking his chops...

:roll:

MAGAts not lining up for meat packing jobs? Weird.


We also hear none complaining about volunteering in the local hospital and being forced to follow protocol, when they would be perfectly cool to leave all PPE to the snowflakes.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 4:42 pm

NWAESC wrote:
WI Supreme Court Justice Pat Roggensack thinks plant workers aren't "regular folks."

"(The surge) was due to the meatpacking — that's where Brown County got the flare. It wasn't just the regular folks in Brown County."

Not regular people...In Brown County...Home of the *checks notes* Green Bay Packers.

And by "regular folks" he means white.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 6:55 pm

Also consider that he is using Defense Protection Act to demand meat plants be open but not to factories that can make masks and ventilators. Sounds about right...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
LabQuest
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 7:11 pm

seb146 wrote:
Also consider that he is using Defense Protection Act to demand meat plants be open but not to factories that can make masks and ventilators. Sounds about right...


He did use the DPA to force some factories to make ventilators. The PPE manufacturers voluntarily increased production.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 7:15 pm

LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Also consider that he is using Defense Protection Act to demand meat plants be open but not to factories that can make masks and ventilators. Sounds about right...


He did use the DPA to force some factories to make ventilators. The PPE manufacturers voluntarily increased production.


Exactly. He said "we don't need to invoke DPA because these factories will make these things out of the goodness of their hearts" but meat packing plants must continue to spread disease? Seems counter productive.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 7:36 pm

Again, I think that we are going to see that you can't regulate or legislate this virus out of existence and denying that it's there doesn't make it go away, either. The good news is that we are going into the summer and I do think that we will see a precipitous fall-off in cases for the summer. So that should buy us some time. The problem is that this administration is going to see that drop-off in cases and declare the pandemic over, and then October is going to come. We will see a massive increase in cases combined with influenza and it will be a disaster because we won't be ready.

That said, we simply cannot have food shortages. There needs to be a way to ensure that people working in these plants have adequate PPE.

Finally, in case this hadn't been made abundantly clear before anyone had ever heard of COVID-19, WASH YOUR HANDS VERY WELL AFTER HANDLING RAW MEAT. Cook meat, especially ground meat, thoroughly. If the other food-borne bacterial and viral illnesses weren't reason enough, now there is COVID-19 in addition.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
LabQuest
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 8:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Also consider that he is using Defense Protection Act to demand meat plants be open but not to factories that can make masks and ventilators. Sounds about right...


He did use the DPA to force some factories to make ventilators. The PPE manufacturers voluntarily increased production.


Exactly. He said "we don't need to invoke DPA because these factories will make these things out of the goodness of their hearts" but meat packing plants must continue to spread disease? Seems counter productive.


It might seem counter productive but it does make sense in some ways. The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things. The meat packing industry is a very essential part of the food supply system and completely shutting it down would have massive economic consequences for millions. They aren't opening them up to 100% or even 50% they just want to get the ball rolling.
 
alfa164
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 11:46 pm

LabQuest wrote:
The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things.



Well, no. There are no "demands"; only recommendations - and no penalties if the don't (and, in all honesty, there is no way they can, considering the close proximity in which they work) meet those guidelines. There is, however, a promise of "liability protection" for the (biggest is Chinese-owned, ironically) companies, as their workers inevitable start keeling over from the lethal virus.

"Without strict adherence to safety guidelines - which are not currently being deemed "mandatory" by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration - it's not hard to picture new outbreaks at factories, or resurgences of the virus in factories that shuttered but reopen prematurely."



LabQuest wrote:
The meat packing industry is a very essential part of the food supply system and completely shutting it down would have massive economic consequences for millions.



Do you have any facts to support that claim? Other than full-page ads from Tyson Foods (who seemed to find the money to pay for those) claiming that "millions of pounds of mat will disappear from the food supply" - and we can further argue whether that is a good thing or a bad thing - can you cite any actual statistics?


"John Tyson, chairman of Tyson Foods took out full-page ads on Sunday in the Washington Post and New York Times to warn "the nation's food supply is breaking". "As pork, beef and chicken plants are being forced to close, even for short periods of time, millions of pounds of meat will disappear from the supply chain," he wrote."


LabQuest wrote:
They aren't opening them up to 100% or even 50% they just want to get the ball rolling.



Prove that. Even A.net requires some modicum of facts... which have been sorely missing in your claims.


:roll:



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52466502
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/01/trump-meat-processing-executive-order-workers
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Thu May 07, 2020 11:50 pm

LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

He did use the DPA to force some factories to make ventilators. The PPE manufacturers voluntarily increased production.


Exactly. He said "we don't need to invoke DPA because these factories will make these things out of the goodness of their hearts" but meat packing plants must continue to spread disease? Seems counter productive.


It might seem counter productive but it does make sense in some ways. The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things. The meat packing industry is a very essential part of the food supply system and completely shutting it down would have massive economic consequences for millions. They aren't opening them up to 100% or even 50% they just want to get the ball rolling.


We can actually live on a limited meat diet for a few months. Health care workers and those with health issues in the general public need PPE. They are hardly the same thing. Immigrants are being infected more than others at these plants

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52311877
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/17/83751156 ... us-outbrea

Here is a chance for all the MAGA fans to step up. You all want immigrants to stop taking your jobs? You want the country open? Here you go!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
alfa164
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 12:07 am

seb146 wrote:
We can actually live on a limited meat diet for a few months.



We can, but the head-of-household in the White House can't. Gotta be sure the supply-line of cheeseburgers is full!



seb146 wrote:
Health care workers and those with health issues in the general public need PPE.



Unfortunately, health care workers and those with health issues haven't spent as much on political donations ($192,000 in the 2020 cycle) - and lobbying ($1,334,159.00 in 2019) - as Tyson foods alone.


https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary?id=D000000460




seb146 wrote:
Immigrants are being infected more than others at these plants .... You all want immigrants to stop taking your jobs? You want the country open? Here you go!



Don't you know.... Stephen Miller probably hid a camera in one of these plants, so he can get his rocks off watching immigrants keel over one-by-one...


:ashamed:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
LabQuest
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 1:43 am

seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Exactly. He said "we don't need to invoke DPA because these factories will make these things out of the goodness of their hearts" but meat packing plants must continue to spread disease? Seems counter productive.


It might seem counter productive but it does make sense in some ways. The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things. The meat packing industry is a very essential part of the food supply system and completely shutting it down would have massive economic consequences for millions. They aren't opening them up to 100% or even 50% they just want to get the ball rolling.


We can actually live on a limited meat diet for a few months. Health care workers and those with health issues in the general public need PPE. They are hardly the same thing. Immigrants are being infected more than others at these plants

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52311877
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/17/83751156 ... us-outbrea

Here is a chance for all the MAGA fans to step up. You all want immigrants to stop taking your jobs? You want the country open? Here you go!


Of course we can eat less meat but everyone is concerned about the long term effects. Farming can't just stop and start like a starbucks or a bookstore. We're talking a year or more of lead time for most things. This isn't about politics. Think of it in terms of building planes. If you shut down the rivet factory and keep everything else open its going to completely hamper the ability of the rest of the industry to continue to operate because they have to wait for the suppliers to catch up. Its very complicated. Its not always political. We can approach this operation from a scientific standpoint, which they are all doing.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 1:44 am

alfa164 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things.



Well, no. There are no "demands"; only recommendations - and no penalties if the don't (and, in all honesty, there is no way they can, considering the close proximity in which they work) meet those guidelines. There is, however, a promise of "liability protection" for the (biggest is Chinese-owned, ironically) companies, as their workers inevitable start keeling over from the lethal virus.

"Without strict adherence to safety guidelines - which are not currently being deemed "mandatory" by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration - it's not hard to picture new outbreaks at factories, or resurgences of the virus in factories that shuttered but reopen prematurely."



LabQuest wrote:
The meat packing industry is a very essential part of the food supply system and completely shutting it down would have massive economic consequences for millions.


Well then I guess its just a ploy to kill as many immigrants as possible if you're going to look at it that way. What more can I say?
Do you have any facts to support that claim? Other than full-page ads from Tyson Foods (who seemed to find the money to pay for those) claiming that "millions of pounds of mat will disappear from the food supply" - and we can further argue whether that is a good thing or a bad thing - can you cite any actual statistics?


"John Tyson, chairman of Tyson Foods took out full-page ads on Sunday in the Washington Post and New York Times to warn "the nation's food supply is breaking". "As pork, beef and chicken plants are being forced to close, even for short periods of time, millions of pounds of meat will disappear from the supply chain," he wrote."


LabQuest wrote:
They aren't opening them up to 100% or even 50% they just want to get the ball rolling.



Prove that. Even A.net requires some modicum of facts... which have been sorely missing in your claims.


:roll:



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52466502
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/01/trump-meat-processing-executive-order-workers
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 2:58 am

LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

It might seem counter productive but it does make sense in some ways. The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things. The meat packing industry is a very essential part of the food supply system and completely shutting it down would have massive economic consequences for millions. They aren't opening them up to 100% or even 50% they just want to get the ball rolling.


We can actually live on a limited meat diet for a few months. Health care workers and those with health issues in the general public need PPE. They are hardly the same thing. Immigrants are being infected more than others at these plants

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52311877
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/17/83751156 ... us-outbrea

Here is a chance for all the MAGA fans to step up. You all want immigrants to stop taking your jobs? You want the country open? Here you go!


Of course we can eat less meat but everyone is concerned about the long term effects. Farming can't just stop and start like a starbucks or a bookstore. We're talking a year or more of lead time for most things. This isn't about politics. Think of it in terms of building planes. If you shut down the rivet factory and keep everything else open its going to completely hamper the ability of the rest of the industry to continue to operate because they have to wait for the suppliers to catch up. Its very complicated. Its not always political. We can approach this operation from a scientific standpoint, which they are all doing.


Part of the problem is corporate farms who are getting welfare. ADM, Smithfield, IBP, Tyson, Armour but small farmers are either selling to the corporate giants or going under. That is a problem Another problem is the EPA under this corrupt administration is allowing toxic dumping into rivers and streams.

This is not even the same as a rivet factory shutting down during WWII. Not even close. If we don't have pork roast or bacon for like two weeks, we are not going to die. More of these racists will overrun state houses with their guns and nasty racist nearly obscene chants and slogans because they can not have a BLT. Maybe a lower sodium and cholesterol count will extend their lives by a few weeks.

We have animal protein in our freezer to keep us nourished through this. Just because others DEMAND it now RIGHT FREAKIN' NOW!!! is not our problem. All lives matter if your skin and religion are the right combination. Otherwise, who cares? That is the latest mantra of the "all lives matter" MAGA crew.

These MAGA people keep whining about not having meat and keep whining about "they took errr jerrrbs!!!" so here is the chance for them to step up and be "patriots" they think they are. Slaughter house work for the local minimum wage and no benefits.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:03 am

LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

He did use the DPA to force some factories to make ventilators. The PPE manufacturers voluntarily increased production.


Exactly. He said "we don't need to invoke DPA because these factories will make these things out of the goodness of their hearts" but meat packing plants must continue to spread disease? Seems counter productive.


It might seem counter productive but it does make sense in some ways. The order demands they adhere to the CDC guidelines about distancing, PPE, and monitoring and other things. .


Nope, they are not. All CDC guidelines are specifically just recommendations, not requirements.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 1:16 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Of course we can eat less meat but everyone is concerned about the long term effects.


Lower cholesterol and cleaner arteries? Seems win-win.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 1:55 pm

NWAESC wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Of course we can eat less meat but everyone is concerned about the long term effects.


Lower cholesterol and cleaner arteries? Seems win-win.


Plus a lot less methane released.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
LabQuest
Posts: 179
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 4:54 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Of course we can eat less meat but everyone is concerned about the long term effects.


Lower cholesterol and cleaner arteries? Seems win-win.


Plus a lot less methane released.

Best regards
Thomas


Hopefully the airline business stay closed for a long time too. Imagine the emissions being saved by all those parked planes. Its great for the planet. Hopefully they never return to the size they once were.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 4:56 pm

LabQuest wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:

Lower cholesterol and cleaner arteries? Seems win-win.


Plus a lot less methane released.

Best regards
Thomas


Hopefully the airline business stay closed for a long time too. Imagine the emissions being saved by all those parked planes. Its great for the planet. Hopefully they never return to the size they once were.


Man you guys are addicted to strawmen. It’s really a sight to behold.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LabQuest
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Plus a lot less methane released.

Best regards
Thomas


Hopefully the airline business stay closed for a long time too. Imagine the emissions being saved by all those parked planes. Its great for the planet. Hopefully they never return to the size they once were.


Man you guys are addicted to strawmen. It’s really a sight to behold.


Who are "you guys"? (if you mean politically you're going to be sorely mistaken)

If he claimed a benefit of shutting down an industry is the reductions of emissions the same applies to airlines.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:08 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Hopefully the airline business stay closed for a long time too. Imagine the emissions being saved by all those parked planes. Its great for the planet. Hopefully they never return to the size they once were.


Man you guys are addicted to strawmen. It’s really a sight to behold.


Who are "you guys"? (if you mean politically you're going to be sorely mistaken)

If he claimed a benefit of shutting down an industry is the reductions of emissions the same applies to airlines.


Cow farts via digestive process they have no say in has no logical connection to constructing conveyances that burn hydrocarbons for propulsion.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LabQuest
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:16 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Man you guys are addicted to strawmen. It’s really a sight to behold.


Who are "you guys"? (if you mean politically you're going to be sorely mistaken)

If he claimed a benefit of shutting down an industry is the reductions of emissions the same applies to airlines.


Cow farts via digestive process they have no say in has no logical connection to constructing conveyances that burn hydrocarbons for propulsion.


Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.
 
N757ST
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:22 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Who are "you guys"? (if you mean politically you're going to be sorely mistaken)

If he claimed a benefit of shutting down an industry is the reductions of emissions the same applies to airlines.


Cow farts via digestive process they have no say in has no logical connection to constructing conveyances that burn hydrocarbons for propulsion.


Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.


You’re aware of the website name.... right. A lot of us here depend on those airlines to support our lives.
 
LabQuest
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:31 pm

N757ST wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Cow farts via digestive process they have no say in has no logical connection to constructing conveyances that burn hydrocarbons for propulsion.


Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.


You’re aware of the website name.... right. A lot of us here depend on those airlines to support our lives.


A lot of farmers depend on those meat packing plants to support their lives.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 5:37 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Who are "you guys"? (if you mean politically you're going to be sorely mistaken)

If he claimed a benefit of shutting down an industry is the reductions of emissions the same applies to airlines.


Cow farts via digestive process they have no say in has no logical connection to constructing conveyances that burn hydrocarbons for propulsion.


Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.


The aeronautics industry has been doing well to reduce pollution. Not just in the skies, but at airports and military bases. IIRC, some American and Canadian airports have ground filtration systems so hazardous chemicals from things like deicing are not released into the local water supply. Not to mention engines becoming more fuel efficient and releasing less carbon and toxic substances. Equipment on the ground switching to less toxic biofuels or electric powered vehicles as well as renewable sources for light and heat and air inside the terminals.

Feed lots, however, do not do much of that. They might have some equipment running on biofuels but that's about it. Runoff from feed lots and dairy farms is hazardous. One "mega dairy" was closed by the state of Oregon for numerous environmental citations.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/ ... 805501001/

I like some meat. Chicken is very versatile. There is a place up the street that sells loaded fries with pulled pork smoked on site that I would step over my own mother for. I am not against meat. The industry does not do much to lessen the impact of their industry on the environment.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
LabQuest
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 7:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Cow farts via digestive process they have no say in has no logical connection to constructing conveyances that burn hydrocarbons for propulsion.


Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.


The aeronautics industry has been doing well to reduce pollution. Not just in the skies, but at airports and military bases. IIRC, some American and Canadian airports have ground filtration systems so hazardous chemicals from things like deicing are not released into the local water supply. Not to mention engines becoming more fuel efficient and releasing less carbon and toxic substances. Equipment on the ground switching to less toxic biofuels or electric powered vehicles as well as renewable sources for light and heat and air inside the terminals.

Feed lots, however, do not do much of that. They might have some equipment running on biofuels but that's about it. Runoff from feed lots and dairy farms is hazardous. One "mega dairy" was closed by the state of Oregon for numerous environmental citations.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/ ... 805501001/

I like some meat. Chicken is very versatile. There is a place up the street that sells loaded fries with pulled pork smoked on site that I would step over my own mother for. I am not against meat. The industry does not do much to lessen the impact of their industry on the environment.


My point is that we've seen over the last few months that a lot of airline travel isn't necessary. We don't need to have in face business meetings like we had in the past. People don't need to fly across the country for a weekend vacation. Having a smaller airline industry would be a good outcome for the planet.

Reducing out meat consumption would be good, too.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22336
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 9:21 pm

LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.


The aeronautics industry has been doing well to reduce pollution. Not just in the skies, but at airports and military bases. IIRC, some American and Canadian airports have ground filtration systems so hazardous chemicals from things like deicing are not released into the local water supply. Not to mention engines becoming more fuel efficient and releasing less carbon and toxic substances. Equipment on the ground switching to less toxic biofuels or electric powered vehicles as well as renewable sources for light and heat and air inside the terminals.

Feed lots, however, do not do much of that. They might have some equipment running on biofuels but that's about it. Runoff from feed lots and dairy farms is hazardous. One "mega dairy" was closed by the state of Oregon for numerous environmental citations.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/ ... 805501001/

I like some meat. Chicken is very versatile. There is a place up the street that sells loaded fries with pulled pork smoked on site that I would step over my own mother for. I am not against meat. The industry does not do much to lessen the impact of their industry on the environment.


My point is that we've seen over the last few months that a lot of airline travel isn't necessary. We don't need to have in face business meetings like we had in the past. People don't need to fly across the country for a weekend vacation. Having a smaller airline industry would be a good outcome for the planet.

Reducing out meat consumption would be good, too.


Business travel was already trending down. A similar argument could be made for getting rid of cars. We don't need to drive. It would be better for the planet if we all just stayed home all the time. But, some of us like to travel. Some of us like to get out and see things other than our own home. Before all this started, we were going to spend a week in Bend at the end of May. Now, who knows? But, at least we are saving the planet by not spending money.

Having a smaller airline industry also means fewer choices and airlines do not have to keep up with the competition as much. Prices will be higher as the industry tries to get back their losses. I get what you are saying about the environment and I agree but we are human. Humans explore. I am looking forward to exploring again.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
LabQuest
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 9:32 pm

seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The aeronautics industry has been doing well to reduce pollution. Not just in the skies, but at airports and military bases. IIRC, some American and Canadian airports have ground filtration systems so hazardous chemicals from things like deicing are not released into the local water supply. Not to mention engines becoming more fuel efficient and releasing less carbon and toxic substances. Equipment on the ground switching to less toxic biofuels or electric powered vehicles as well as renewable sources for light and heat and air inside the terminals.

Feed lots, however, do not do much of that. They might have some equipment running on biofuels but that's about it. Runoff from feed lots and dairy farms is hazardous. One "mega dairy" was closed by the state of Oregon for numerous environmental citations.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/ ... 805501001/

I like some meat. Chicken is very versatile. There is a place up the street that sells loaded fries with pulled pork smoked on site that I would step over my own mother for. I am not against meat. The industry does not do much to lessen the impact of their industry on the environment.


My point is that we've seen over the last few months that a lot of airline travel isn't necessary. We don't need to have in face business meetings like we had in the past. People don't need to fly across the country for a weekend vacation. Having a smaller airline industry would be a good outcome for the planet.

Reducing out meat consumption would be good, too.


Business travel was already trending down. A similar argument could be made for getting rid of cars. We don't need to drive. It would be better for the planet if we all just stayed home all the time. But, some of us like to travel. Some of us like to get out and see things other than our own home. Before all this started, we were going to spend a week in Bend at the end of May. Now, who knows? But, at least we are saving the planet by not spending money.

Having a smaller airline industry also means fewer choices and airlines do not have to keep up with the competition as much. Prices will be higher as the industry tries to get back their losses. I get what you are saying about the environment and I agree but we are human. Humans explore. I am looking forward to exploring again.


I totally understand. This whole thing is going to make us rethink a lot of things- air travel being one. Cruises another. I love cruises but I think I'm done with them for a long time. I don't know about you but I've found out during this quarantine I don't need to buy as many things as I thought and have gotten rid of a lot of clutter in my house.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 10:57 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Imagine the emissions being saved by all those parked planes.



Imagine the emissions that would be saved if the current person sitting in the White House would stop bloviating so much and actually do the job a President is supposed to do. That would be great for the country - and the planet.


;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
LabQuest
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Fri May 08, 2020 11:15 pm

alfa164 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Imagine the emissions being saved by all those parked planes.



Imagine the emissions that would be saved if the current person sitting in the White House would stop bloviating so much and actually do the job a President is supposed to do. That would be great for the country - and the planet.


;)


Couldn't agree more! At least he's not flying to Florida every 5 days.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12910
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Sat May 09, 2020 5:03 am

LabQuest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Pollution is pollution. If we can use this crisis to rethink our use of air travel and drastically reduce the levels of flying going forward it would be a good thing for society. Hopefully going forward we will be able to rethink business travel and reduce the size of airlines and the numbers of flights.


The aeronautics industry has been doing well to reduce pollution. Not just in the skies, but at airports and military bases. IIRC, some American and Canadian airports have ground filtration systems so hazardous chemicals from things like deicing are not released into the local water supply. Not to mention engines becoming more fuel efficient and releasing less carbon and toxic substances. Equipment on the ground switching to less toxic biofuels or electric powered vehicles as well as renewable sources for light and heat and air inside the terminals.

Feed lots, however, do not do much of that. They might have some equipment running on biofuels but that's about it. Runoff from feed lots and dairy farms is hazardous. One "mega dairy" was closed by the state of Oregon for numerous environmental citations.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/ ... 805501001/

I like some meat. Chicken is very versatile. There is a place up the street that sells loaded fries with pulled pork smoked on site that I would step over my own mother for. I am not against meat. The industry does not do much to lessen the impact of their industry on the environment.


My point is that we've seen over the last few months that a lot of airline travel isn't necessary.


A lot of business travel isn't for meetings, but for setting up, servicing and commissioning of new facilities. Many businesses are now not shut down per order or lack of orders, but lacking the ability to deliver. Business class travel may see an effect, but believe it or not, few people or companies do or allow that for kicks, and I know people that left high paid jobs to get out of that travelling. Some companies literally have people who get paid quite well for flying where a "special assistant" may do, and management doesn't really have to go.

Air travel isn't going away, and as a long term trend its growth will barely ever slow. The only real option is making air travel CO2 neutral. It would appear that may be possible at around 1000$/ton even when you make the fuel by pulling CO2 out of the air.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4113
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Sat May 09, 2020 1:39 pm

Res meat plants: Fiat, dicta, and et ceteri will not do the job. What might have been more interesting, train a several units of the national guard with could be called up to in turn provide PPE to a meat plant (factory, warehouse), train the workers, monitor their compliance. This would not be stressful, national guard people providing assistance during national emergencies tend to be some of the most loved and respected government workers people ever see.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12856
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Sat May 09, 2020 3:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
Feed lots, however, do not do much of that. They might have some equipment running on biofuels but that's about it. Runoff from feed lots and dairy farms is hazardous. One "mega dairy" was closed by the state of Oregon for numerous environmental citations.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/ ... 805501001/

I like some meat. Chicken is very versatile. There is a place up the street that sells loaded fries with pulled pork smoked on site that I would step over my own mother for. I am not against meat. The industry does not do much to lessen the impact of their industry on the environment.


Feedlots need to be banned, all they produce is cheap grain feed shitty beef. If meat was grass fed and priced accordingly you’d enjoy it much more, it would be better for the environment and the animals.

Don’t get me started on chicken, whenever I’m in the US you couldn’t pay me enough to eat the chicken you eat.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Wed May 13, 2020 2:59 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Res meat plants: Fiat, dicta, and et ceteri will not do the job. What might have been more interesting, train a several units of the national guard with could be called up to in turn provide PPE to a meat plant (factory, warehouse), train the workers, monitor their compliance. This would not be stressful, national guard people providing assistance during national emergencies tend to be some of the most loved and respected government workers people ever see.


Unfortunately, that will never happen, because the meat-packers - like Trump himself - considers these workers expendable. So today, we got good news and bad news.

The good news: no reported deaths at the plants.

The bad news: There are no reported deaths, because the Governor of Nebraska has refused to release any numbers - and has ordered everyone else to hide them too.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/12/nebraska-coronavirus-case-numbers-meatpacking/


So now we are entering the Orwellian world, albeit 36 years later than he predicted.


“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

― George Orwell, 1984
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Wed May 13, 2020 4:19 am

So gross we are sacrificing lives to keep meat processing plants open. Would be smarter to ask Americans to give up meat while we fight to contain the virus. we must stay at home, shelter in place, only go out for essential goods in our local areas. Really sad we have such a horrible social safety Net that people have to go to work instead of saving lives and stopping the virus. We need to shut down the meat processing plants until we have a vaccine.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12910
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Wed May 13, 2020 5:29 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
So gross we are sacrificing lives to keep meat processing plants open..


i wonder why the "Its just a flu and a media hysteria" crowd doesn´t line up to work in meat packing plants.....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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NWAESC
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Trump Takes Executive Action to Keep Meat-Processing Plants Open

Wed May 13, 2020 11:16 am

Because they feel that work is beneath them. It's never been about "freedom" or "liberty" with this crowd; they want the economy to open back up, so you can get back to work to make their lives more convenient.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."

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